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Old 09-07-2013, 11:12 AM   #1
sixtyfps
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The VR Dev Community: Thriving


Polygon posted an article today focused on the efforts of Teddy Lipowitz and his VR cohorts.

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"You know, in that Humans demo, when you get face-to-face with that person, the first time I did that, I felt like I wanted to apologize," Lipowitz said. "You feel like you're in their personal space; it's not like you're looking like a model in a game, it felt like there's a guy there, and I'm really sorry, but I'm a bit too close. It's really freaky, and that's so exciting for me."
You've got to see the video of his 'Hydradeck' 'Humans' demo.
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Old 09-07-2013, 06:30 PM   #2
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Okay, is anyone else getting sick of this and just want a release date for the retail version?
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Old 09-07-2013, 06:45 PM   #3
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Okay, is anyone else getting sick of this and just want a release date for the retail version?
Not me. I am excited for them to flesh this technology out.

Every handful of years I expect and crave to be blown away by some kind of technology in the video game space.

I think this is the next bit of tech that will do just that for many people. I think it's going to take gaming to another evolutionary level (immersion that simply wasn't possible before, no matter the quality of pre-vr dev work).
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:00 PM   #4
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In case we forget.
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:11 PM   #5
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Not me. I am excited for them to flesh this technology out.

Every handful of years I expect and crave to be blown away by some kind of technology in the video game space.

I think this is the next bit of tech that will do just that for many people. I think it's going to take gaming to another evolutionary level (immersion that simply wasn't possible before, no matter the quality of pre-vr dev work).
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:14 PM   #6
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:22 PM   #7
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I've used one ona couple occasions, and it certainly changed my views (literally) on VR headsets. It's got amazing potential and amazing problems to solve - the biggest of which is the rendering latency for head-tracking and the low resolution - and those are just some of the technical issues. In fact, most of everything John Carmack spoke about at Quakecon this year in reference to the Oculus echo my sentiments exactly.

It IS a big leap forward that I feel is still in mid air and hasn't actually landed yet. The problem lies in the actual experience and I have no doubt that it differs from person to person, so all I can really speak to are my own trials. I tried it while both standing and sitting, and found that being in a chair (especially one that swivels) is more disorienting. I was able to move via an Xbox controller and for me I think that is the biggest breakdown between the virtual and the real. This is because your will to move is dependent on a device you hold in your hand that feels unnatural or untied to the desired movement in the virtual world that your head exists in... it's a difficult thing to explain. My brain had the sense that in the virtual world, all I had with respect to body parts that could interact with the world around me was JUST my head... no arms or legs, since the orientation of my head was already "steering" the reality that I was immersed in. Moving "forward" for me would mean "leaning forward", and not making some "trans-reality connection" to another body that could move me and allow my virtual presence to interact. Since the device only tracks spacial relation and not distance via any accelerometer, it equates to your head being trapped in one reality while the rest of your body exists somewhere else. I can imagine the best hardware to alleviate some of these issues would be the inclusion of accelerometers, paired with Sony's Move controller, since it's accelerometers do an excellent job of translating motion in 3D space and as a peripheral tied to the Oculus I believe would make the experience feel less fragmented - especially if they components are aware of each other.

I suppose that's the word I would choose to sum up my experience of the Oculus: "fragmented". When I wear it I fell like just a part of my body is immersed in a new world, and it is almost painfully apparent that the rest of my being is still somewhere else. It's not an easy problem to solve by any stretch of the imagination and I imagine it also takes practice. I am now a lot more interested in the neuroscience applications and research opportunities the Oculus provides that just gaming.
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:40 PM   #8
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So what is the next step? Suppose something, will ya?

Is a holodeck the only thing that it can become to be the experience you're looking for?
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:42 PM   #9
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demo found here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=7bytIGCeGxo
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Old 09-07-2013, 08:03 PM   #10
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Okay, is anyone else getting sick of this and just want a release date for the retail version?
I'm still worried it will never happen. This is the kind of thing that often gets bought for a few million by a corporation with the money to be able to accomplish production at a reasonable price, but then they look at the potential risk vs. reward and decide that they'll make more money by it NOT being on the market to compete with their other products that are already in the manufacturing pipeline.

Anyway, it needs to launch at $500 or less and be able to get down to $200 within 5 years to become something that normal people use and not just a gamer-fad. I don't know if they can manage that on the first run, but if it is good enough to remain a popular gamer-fad even at a higher price, they can probably get it there within 10 years.
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Old 09-07-2013, 08:19 PM   #11
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Good write-up. Thanks!
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Old 09-07-2013, 08:35 PM   #12
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Consoles are all about socializing with the people in the room around you. PCs are all about precision control while requiring a keyboard 90% of users must look at to operate.

A fully enclosed headset is niche at best, elitist at the least, and a failure in conception until the technology is more along the lines of google glass.

"Fragmented" is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the Oculus's issues... and id' rather use the term "Disconnected".
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:01 PM   #13
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I'm still worried it will never happen. This is the kind of thing that often gets bought for a few million by a corporation with the money to be able to accomplish production at a reasonable price, but then they look at the potential risk vs. reward and decide that they'll make more money by it NOT being on the market to compete with their other products that are already in the manufacturing pipeline.

Anyway, it needs to launch at $500 or less and be able to get down to $200 within 5 years to become something that normal people use and not just a gamer-fad. I don't know if they can manage that on the first run, but if it is good enough to remain a popular gamer-fad even at a higher price, they can probably get it there within 10 years.
I see $300 as the sweet spot, myself. My fear is that the long delay is because they cannot hit a reasonable price point. Note that the delay is long in the sense that it already works, there are already dev units, already games that work with it, already games and interactive experiences made for it and they already fixed the resolution issue. So what's taking so long? Tooling should have been done six months ago!
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:10 PM   #14
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I was able to move via an Xbox controller and for me I think that is the biggest breakdown between the virtual and the real. This is because your will to move is dependent on a device you hold in your hand that feels unnatural or untied to the desired movement in the virtual world that your head exists in... it's a difficult thing to explain.
Great write up of the experience. I was just thinking that maybe the best way to handle that would be to place your character in a a wheelchair/cockpit/mech suit or something to maintain immersion.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:13 PM   #15
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I think that's what the guys who are using the Razer Hydra are trying to solve. By showing spatially correct (relatively, anyway) positioning of the input they ground the experience and give a little more equilibrium to the user.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:36 PM   #16
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I see $300 as the sweet spot, myself. My fear is that the long delay is because they cannot hit a reasonable price point. Note that the delay is long in the sense that it already works, there are already dev units, already games that work with it, already games and interactive experiences made for it and they already fixed the resolution issue. So what's taking so long? Tooling should have been done six months ago!
Setting up manufacturing of a product can take years. Often special engineers have to be hired to design and create the machines that will make your machines. Then there are issues with permits in foreign countries - especially for new companies. Plus, you really need this if you are going to make a real consumer product as there is no other way to make it affordable. This is why I worry that they'll sell it to a big company who has the infrastructure to manufacture consumer electronics OR they'll fuck-up the manufacturing deal and we won't see it forever or when we see it the units will not be cost effective.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:56 PM   #17
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Setting up manufacturing of a product can take years. Often special engineers have to be hired to design and create the machines that will make your machines. Then there are issues with permits in foreign countries - especially for new companies. Plus, you really need this if you are going to make a real consumer product as there is no other way to make it affordable. This is why I worry that they'll sell it to a big company who has the infrastructure to manufacture consumer electronics OR they'll fuck-up the manufacturing deal and we won't see it forever or when we see it the units will not be cost effective.
I oversee the manufacturing and production of millions of units of consumer goods a year. I know exactly what goes into it. I also know these guys are really, really far along. They released working units! All that needs to happen is final specification, tooling and ordering. Then let some graphics artist who thinks he made a good choice going to school to learn illustrator design some box art, get a product manager to oversee the packaging and have sales demo the machine for Target and Wal*Mart. Really, they have JOHN CARMACK working for them, now. Just get this ball rolling, god damnit!

Also, the quicker the first release comes out, the quicker the improved and cheaper second release we all really want to buy comes out.
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:03 PM   #18
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So what is the next step? Suppose something, will ya?

Is a holodeck the only thing that it can become to be the experience you're looking for?
I wouldn't go as far as holodeck, but I did say this: "I can imagine the best hardware to alleviate some of these issues would be the inclusion of accelerometers, paired with Sony's Move controller, since it's accelerometers do an excellent job of translating motion in 3D space and as a peripheral tied to the Oculus I believe would make the experience feel less fragmented - especially if they components are aware of each other."

So, long as your body isn't getting a large amount of outside sensory stimuli that is contrary to the virtual experience or interacting with objects outside the virtual world that aren't well represented in the virtual, the experience I think is "ok". Right now it's just too limited and I'm not a hardware guy so I can't really suppose any meaningful solutions beyond what I know is capable with existing products like the Move. The actions of pushing buttons, joysticks, or other mechanical interfaces to move you around and interact is what breeches the realities, and as long as you can minimalize that "breech" - that "trans-reality connection" required to interact - I think the virtual experience can only benefit from it. We're not there yet, there's no simple solution, and certainly not a single solution that works for everyone.

The reason why I think the Move would be better and not the Kinect is that the Move controller can act as a medium between the two worlds just as the displays do - so long as it is represented within the virtual world as a similar interaction tool (i.e. reaching out to objects, vibrating when coming in contact with them, and giving the virtual world a meaningful representation of where that part of the body is in relation). The Kinect has higher latency, and doesn't provide any form of haptic feedback for interaction. If there is a virtual bucket that you bump into with your virtual hand while waving a virtual stick at it, the Kinect can't vibrate your hand - all you feel is air and it creates more of a disconnect from the experience. But I think this is getting more into the realm of personal feelings as to how the tech should behave.
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:23 PM   #19
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I REALLY want to get a hold of one of these. Seriously, considering a 300 dev kit just to play with it.
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:39 PM   #20
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If we get a holodeck before I'm dead, I'm going to make a living reviewing erotic fan fiction that involves any and/or all characters played by Emma Stone.
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