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Old 05-23-2012, 10:58 PM   #1
randir14
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John Carmack on Next-Gen Consoles: "There Will Still Be Lots of 30hz Games"


In response to a Twitter question regarding framerates on next-gen consoles, John Carmack replied that he believes there will still be a lot of games that only run at 30 fps.

Quote:
@ID_AA_Carmack Hi John, Do you think next gen we will see more 60fps games on consoles?

@Razor81_ There will still be lots of 30hz games, which I don't think it is a good trade. If TVs didn't add lag, it would be more clear cut
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:14 PM   #2
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So...more of the same then?
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:40 PM   #3
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So...more of the same then?
No, it's Carmack finally admitting that he isn't smart enough to get his engines to run at 60fps any more.
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:52 PM   #4
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I think 60FPS is really overrated for TV consoles. Silky smooth motion, yes. But for some reason the extra smoothness tends to give me motion sickness on the TV. Or maybe that was just id engine 4 responsible for that.
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:54 PM   #5
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I think as long as games are trying for photorealism, and as long as screenshots still sell games, developers are going to keep dumbing down aspects of their games to allocate more resources to getting that photorealistic look.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:28 AM   #6
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You can get anything running at 60 fps, assuming you're willing to let your game look not as nice as the competition.

60 fps should be saved for games where you really need it, where it's worth having--sports games, high-action games, twitch anything where speed and responsiveness is tops.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:31 AM   #7
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I think as long as games are trying for photorealism, and as long as screenshots still sell games, developers are going to keep dumbing down aspects of their games to allocate more resources to getting that photorealistic look.
Exactly, there's a tradeoff for hitting 60hz, and it's not a small tradeoff. Opportunity cost.
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:30 AM   #8
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Im sensitive to assy framrates. 45 is enough but any less than that and i get depressed and want to cut my self. I had no doubt there would be crappy faps in next gen games, they push it to the limit because the consoles are underpowered when you compare them to a PC.

Face it, consoles are still a freaking mess. Maybe next next gen and when AMOLED TV's come out we can get some good ol CRT late 80 early 90 arcade tightness.

And why is he saying hz? I get the whole monitor refresh jazz but why say it that way? What a weirdo.
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Old 05-24-2012, 04:31 AM   #9
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Maybe next next gen and when AMOLED TV's come out we can get some good ol CRT late 80 early 90 arcade tightness.


MMMmmmmmmmm Trinitron....
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:45 AM   #10
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Tim Sweeney stated he got the specs on the next gen consoles and they already aren't powerful enough to run the next Unreal engine. Maybe between the 30hz framerate and Sweeneys comments, it makes me think the next gens will be 1.5 more than a real next step.
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:20 AM   #11
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well if you want 3d and 60hz in 1080p then you need to use dvi instead of hdmi and thats not used on tvs today
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Old 05-24-2012, 07:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Tim Sweeney stated he got the specs on the next gen consoles and they already aren't powerful enough to run the next Unreal engine. Maybe between the 30hz framerate and Sweeneys comments, it makes me think the next gens will be 1.5 more than a real next step.
Let's hope all this attention forces Microsoft and Sony to rethink their plans. It really benifits everybody, (that includes YOU PC gamers!), for the consoles to be as powerful as is reasonable at launch.

Developers hate making different versions of a game to work around a particular platform's limitations, or adding enhanced features to the platform with the least sales. Even when it does happen, (like the Rocksteady Batman games), the enhancements are usually minor graphics tweaks, nothing that really takes advantage of what a high-end PC can really do.

So everyone really should hope that the new machines are powerful, affordable and smartly designed, (universal voice-chat standard, system comes with a microphone standard, system comes with an HDD standard, etc.), that MS and Sony give up the motion-control-is-cool fantasy and quit wasting resources on "timed exclusives".

Nintendo has already proved that there's no long tail if you push out an inferior system and lackluster games. Let's get back to making great systems and games that real gamers can get excited about.
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Old 05-24-2012, 08:54 AM   #13
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As a life long pc gamer, we have been enjoying framerates better than 60 fps since forever, and consoles have always seemed 2nd rate to me as a result. just a crappy computer with all kinds of DRM and advertisements.
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:21 AM   #14
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well if you want 3d and 60hz in 1080p then you need to use dvi instead of hdmi and thats not used on tvs today
DVI and HDMI use the EXACT SAME video encoding.

HDMI is more than capable of outputting at 120fps, there are hundreds of displays on the market that already do this, every single 3D TV for example. The problem is its insanely hardware intensive for graphics processor.

I'm not surprised about this, honestly. Considering it takes a $200+ GPU and 200+ watt GPU to get 60fps on some modern games at 1080p, i can't imagine a console having that horsepower or wanting to use that much power.
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:23 AM   #15
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Look I know you guys play more games than me, but I played Rage on 360 all the way through and the graphics looked amazingly rendered to me, and the whole thing ran at 60hz which I could really feel.

Game design aside, Rage is a pretty amazing feat of engineering.
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:50 AM   #16
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Hmmm....nope, don't care. Console games look gorgeous and run well. Now, back to BF3...
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:55 AM   #17
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Quote:
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DVI and HDMI use the EXACT SAME video encoding.

HDMI is more than capable of outputting at 120fps, there are hundreds of displays on the market that already do this, every single 3D TV for example. The problem is its insanely hardware intensive for graphics processor.

I'm not surprised about this, honestly. Considering it takes a $200+ GPU and 200+ watt GPU to get 60fps on some modern games at 1080p, i can't imagine a console having that horsepower or wanting to use that much power.
Bluray for instance doesnt support 1080p in 3d in 60Hz.
Bluray only supports maximum 29.97 fps 3d in 1080p. If you want 3d in 60Hz you have to stick to 1280x720p.

Please show me one display that can handle 3d in 1080p@60Hz over HDMI.
I have never seen one. Every single pc monitor out there you need to use dual link dvi to get 3d in 1080p.
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:55 AM   #18
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HDMI is single link btw. Dual link DVI has double the bandwith.
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:57 AM   #19
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Getting sick of people like Cliffy and Carmack saying what the next consoles should have. At this point, I am exhausted by it all.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:08 AM   #20
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Oh and Carmach doesnt have any weight anymore after Rage. Piece of crap game that looked like ass.
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