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Old 03-28-2012, 12:15 PM   #21
Metal Khaos
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I'm still waiting to see how these games come off the Kickstarter. So many Kickstarters going up. At least it's a nifty way for developers to get a better chance at creating what they REALLY want to make without worrying about the publisher so much. Or whatever other type of Corporate Overlord.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:22 PM   #22
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This is what a free market is though, the badly managed kickstarter projects will fail and the good ones will succeed and every now and then an anomaly will happen and a bad one will succeed and a good one will fail.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:01 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
This is what a free market is though, the badly managed kickstarter projects will fail and the good ones will succeed and every now and then an anomaly will happen and a bad one will succeed and a good one will fail.
What forces the kickstarter project to the finish-line? Game developers are notorious for not being able to come in on time or budget. What happens when Double Fine spends their gold and still doesn't produce the game?

The money is gone, what recourse do the investors have?
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:11 PM   #24
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I think of kickstarter as more of a donation, not an investment.

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Originally Posted by vallor View Post
What forces the kickstarter project to the finish-line? Game developers are notorious for not being able to come in on time or budget. What happens when Double Fine spends their gold and still doesn't produce the game?

The money is gone, what recourse do the investors have?
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:24 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by vallor View Post
What forces the kickstarter project to the finish-line? Game developers are notorious for not being able to come in on time or budget. What happens when Double Fine spends their gold and still doesn't produce the game?

The money is gone, what recourse do the investors have?
good question. We'll find out soon I think. Right now I'd say investor beware. The odds of having any official recourse is slim to none. However, knowing the internet user mindset, if a company does not deliver on promises, the investors will turn on the company and run them through the virtual mud.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:45 PM   #26
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I think of kickstarter as more of a donation, not an investment.
However you think of it you are offering money and being promised something in return for that money within the criteria described by the offer.

They are saying that, for your money you get XYZ. What if you gave money to Sally Struthers and didn't get that personalized letter and picture of the child you sponsered!? Ok, maybe a bad example since I wouldn't care either but this is a lot different than chairity in my mind.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:53 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by vallor View Post
However you think of it you are offering money and being promised something in return for that money within the criteria described by the offer.

They are saying that, for your money you get XYZ. What if you gave money to Sally Struthers and didn't get that personalized letter and picture of the child you sponsered!? Ok, maybe a bad example since I wouldn't care either but this is a lot different than chairity in my mind.
Right. Risk and reward. Like any investment. Your reward is a game you want. The risk? It might never materialise/be as good as you wanted/work.

I'm happy to try.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:56 PM   #28
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Right. Risk and reward. Like any investment. Your reward is a game you want. The risk? It might never materialise/be as good as you wanted/work.

I'm happy to try.
In most cases when someone offers you a contract there are penalties in the event of breech. Kickstarter promises definitely verge on a contract and might even be considered a contract in many of the US states.

It seems pretty shady to me and ripe for abuse. If it is how you suggest anyone can start a kickstarter project, hit the max and then make off with the money without any problem or barrier.

1) Start a kickstarter to bring Final Fantasy 7 in HD for current gen consoles
2) Avoid being sued because I'll call out in the kickstarter that most of the money will be used to acquire the license.
3) Profit! Pocket all the money and take off with a "Sorry, risk reward!"
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:16 PM   #29
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heh Would be great if they had a game deal going, and then started the kickstarter just to fund the QA team. Bet they'd even get more money that way.
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:18 PM   #30
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In most cases when someone offers you a contract there are penalties in the event of breech. Kickstarter promises definitely verge on a contract and might even be considered a contract in many of the US states.

It seems pretty shady to me and ripe for abuse. If it is how you suggest anyone can start a kickstarter project, hit the max and then make off with the money without any problem or barrier.

1) Start a kickstarter to bring Final Fantasy 7 in HD for current gen consoles
2) Avoid being sued because I'll call out in the kickstarter that most of the money will be used to acquire the license.
3) Profit! Pocket all the money and take off with a "Sorry, risk reward!"
Sounds like a complete oversimplification, not to mention if they did something like that they'd never work in the industry again. Publishers don't enjoy the idea of people wasting money, especially theirs, and fans wouldn't want to aid them either. Money split across a studio doesn't go as long a way as one might think.
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:53 AM   #31
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I'm for kickstarter, for the moment. I think it's good that we are getting a good selection of developers working on projects while the kickstarter fire is still hot. There is a better chance of some of them being excellent, which should hopefully keep this revolution rolling.

This is also the most excited I've been about the game industry in a long time. The demand by publishers that all games make all the moneys is cloying and depressing. I miss when developers attempted to make games they would want to play.

Devs are far from infallible, though...I just hope they make the most from this new development, and move the industry forward like they did so many decades ago.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:32 AM   #32
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Sounds like a complete oversimplification, not to mention if they did something like that they'd never work in the industry again.
Let me just say: I'm not against Kickstarter. As an old school gamer I love the products people are funding right now.

Just trying to make a few points, which you got into the weeds with, so I'll try again.

1) Kickstarter isn't supposed to be charity. Most people aren't giving Brian Fargo or Schaffer money out of the kindness of their heart, they are giving it to get an old school Schaffer game or a Wasteland sequel in return. Having an expectation to get something material back for your "donation" it isn't really charity anymore.

2) There is an implied contract that the project will deliver on their proposed business solution for a contributers outlay of money. But there are no checks, balances, or accountability if they fail to live up to their end of the bargin. At least none that I've seen.

3) Ostracising a company is very unlikely to happen if the company has a "good" excuse (like "dang guys, we wanted to make the best game possible and ended up overscoping; we ran out of time and money"). Maybe followed by a plea to provide MORE time and money. This happens all the time because a lot of game studios suck donkey balls when it comes to estimating time or budget. Then when they run out of time/budget they either beg for more or they cut (usually) quality.

On top of that Gamers are particularly forgiving, IMO, and are particularly blinded when dealing with darling personalities or exceptional IPs. How many times do you hear "I hate Activision but I gotta have the latest WoW expansion" or "Damn you EA, I am not taking it any more! (except for Mass Effect 3, but that's it!)"

It took nearly a decade of exaggerated promises before Peter Molyneux lost his gamer royalty status. Right now Notch could ass-rape every Minecraft customer for years before he expended all of his gamer cred.

Because we really, really want to see the promise of these projects to come to fruition doesn't mean we should relax our guard too much. These are great projects but we shouldn't elevate them above scrutiny and give 'em a free pass.

At a higher level I worry about the system becoming unwieldly.

At this rate Kickstarter will be like the Appstore... with so much chaff that good stuff is hard to find; buried 100 pages deep while only the stuff with excellent marketing bubbles up to the top. IMO kickstarter's purpose risks being perverted; meant to fund games (or other projects) that don't have the resources for marketing (either because they are backed by big names, or wellknown IPs, or they just have money to burn for marketing).
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