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Old 02-24-2012, 05:51 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by inscribed View Post
Uncharted 3 multiplayer access key is 9.99 US if you buy used. I don't know where the 40$ figure comes from.
The $40 was an imaginary number I can see publishers building themselves up to, I should have been clearer on that. Right now we have $5-$15 codes included free in the box that secondary market buyers will have to purchase. If publishers withhold even more content and jack the price up on those codes they'll be able to seriously impact the used market.
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Old 02-24-2012, 06:00 PM   #102
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It's from the imaginary worlds of "I bought used baseball cards and demand the stick of gum they are supposed to come with if you buy them new, even though I paid the used price for them" and "Even though the box contains everything it says it does, I somehow feel entitled to have all of the extra stuff included in the collectors edition, plus all of the DLC released after the fact, plus the expansion that takes place after the game that I've convinced myself was promised to me".
You are really off the mark. It has nothing to do with entitlement, it has to do with the feeling like you are not getting ripped off in process of our hobby. The gum is the bonus for buying new. Free day one DLC is that gum; you don't buy new, you don't get the gum - a well understood and fair trade off. But when they put content out that ready but requires additional $, it feels like that we, the consumers, are being swindled.
If publishers/devlopers wish continue good will toward their customers, they should always budget & plan that day one DLC is free for all new (and all) game copies.

Perhaps the DLC market is moving faster then what consumers are able to feel comfortable with, even more so when they are already asking for $60.
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:11 PM   #103
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If publishers/devlopers wish continue good will toward their customers, they should always budget & plan that day one DLC is free for all new (and all) game copies.

Perhaps the DLC market is moving faster then what consumers are able to feel comfortable with, even more so when they are already asking for $60.
But anyone who pays any attention to video games can assume now that any popular title will have DLC. In some cases (see Street Fighter 4 and Marvel vs Capcom 3) people complain when updates are retail packages and NOT DLC.

The point is, day 1 DLC is nothing new, we already know about it. I don't understand how people can act like companies are trying to pull the wool over our eyes by releasing day 1 DLC, or, as this thread has as a more general topic, DLC in general. When you buy a game, if you've done any amount of research before hand (and that's a consumer's responsibility), you have a pretty good idea what's in the box.

And I don't understand the backlash for a company trying to earn money for the work they do. Comments like "It'll cost $40 for the rest of the game" are, first of all, baseless, and secondly, ridiculous. Online passes from every company who use them have been $10, and $10-15 is the going rate for most DLC. Season passes for $40-50 are common, but again, they are for games where DLC is expected (like CoD and Gears), and while they add life to the online portion of the game, you still get everything that's listed on the box in the box.

So basically, that's where I stand. If you get everything in the box that's listed, then you are in good shape. If you buy it used, don't complain if parts are missing, particularly consumables. And don't expect that expansions and other DLC are going to be included after the sale, we've established 6 years ago (when 360 launched) that that wasn't going to happen. It's nothing new, it's nothing underhanded, and contrary to what others are saying, that extra revenue isn't killing our hobby, it's sustaining it.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:04 AM   #104
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I guess in this case (of the ME3 DLC) backlash comes for a couple of reasons - which makes it different then what we've seen from other DLC in the past.

1) The perceived content that was cut, or "held back" for DLC. It just not some random squad member of an already known race; its something much bigger, much more important then that. His over all role may be nothing, but it's what he is and what he stands for (lore wise) that is too big not to be included in the main game. Or if you look at it another way, unlocking him to be a squad member is going to cost you $10.
"Shepard, for $10 I will join your squad and help you defeat the Reapers!"

2) The fact that this day-one DLC is not free DLC for a buyer of any new game, but costs money to people who didn't get (or can't get) a collectors edition at a price of $10. Is a extra character, a mission, extra weapon and alternate armor skins for all your squad members worth dropping another $10? Look at you are getting out of the game for $60, and then look what you are going to get for $10. That better be one hell of a fucking huge mission. The price point for this DLC, with the information we have right now, seems too arbitrarily high; and having learned our lessions from the previous shenanigans from EA(/Bioware) in general, this just seems like another even more brazen attempt to get gamers to shell out more money for less content.

Yes the DLC isn't out yet, thus we haven't had the time to break it down piece by piece yet and this content may be well worth $10, but maybe it just isn't.
IF EA/Bioware wanted to sell this for a price, they should have tested the waters at $3/$4 instead of $10. Free for all new copies would have been even better.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:43 AM   #105
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Square Enix did this with FF XIII-2. You get ONE ending with the game you bought. Additional endings they are selling them as DLC. It really pissed me off after I paid $60 and then found out the game is only partially complete.

The way I am buying most of my games now is a year or so after release if I think it will have a lot of DLC like Fallout NV. I just bought it when they released the complete, err ultimate, edition.

Sadly this isn't just in the gaming industry. Microsoft for example has been trying to figure out a way of selling Windows and Office in pieces to you for years. It looks like Office will be 'subscription' based in the next year or so.
I dont know what weird version of Final Fantasy you have been playing, but I havent purchased a single piece of DLC and have experienced five endings thus far. You just need to work a bit more to get at the others, but they are there. Perhaps the DLC is for people who cant be bothered?
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:38 PM   #106
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I guess in this case (of the ME3 DLC) backlash comes for a couple of reasons - which makes it different then what we've seen from other DLC in the past.

1) The perceived content that was cut, or "held back" for DLC. It just not some random squad member of an already known race; its something much bigger, much more important then that. His over all role may be nothing, but it's what he is and what he stands for (lore wise) that is too big not to be included in the main game. Or if you look at it another way, unlocking him to be a squad member is going to cost you $10.
"Shepard, for $10 I will join your squad and help you defeat the Reapers!"

2) The fact that this day-one DLC is not free DLC for a buyer of any new game, but costs money to people who didn't get (or can't get) a collectors edition at a price of $10. Is a extra character, a mission, extra weapon and alternate armor skins for all your squad members worth dropping another $10? Look at you are getting out of the game for $60, and then look what you are going to get for $10. That better be one hell of a fucking huge mission. The price point for this DLC, with the information we have right now, seems too arbitrarily high; and having learned our lessions from the previous shenanigans from EA(/Bioware) in general, this just seems like another even more brazen attempt to get gamers to shell out more money for less content.

Yes the DLC isn't out yet, thus we haven't had the time to break it down piece by piece yet and this content may be well worth $10, but maybe it just isn't.
IF EA/Bioware wanted to sell this for a price, they should have tested the waters at $3/$4 instead of $10. Free for all new copies would have been even better.
Beyond the objections I have to the backlash DLC is getting in general, I find that much of the chatter going on about MA3's DLC is based on value, EA/Bioware's greed and the perception that the DLC was somehow gutted from the $60 package. You are one of the few people to state the obvious, that becasue the game isn't out, and the DLC isn't out, we have no idea what the value of the $60 game is, or the DLC of unknown length is. And that's always been one of my points in the conversation about DLC, online codes and the like. Everyone keeps talking about future events and unknowns like they are facts. We know that the DLC in question has been planned for the collectors edition for some time. We also know that it was created after the game went gold. But really, none of that matters. Games and other media have a value associated to them based on user enjoyment. If you play a game, are entertained for X hours and you paid Y dollars for, it's a good value. But those values are subjective. The question won't be answered until much after launch, when people will have played the game and assessed their purchase accordingly.

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I dont know what weird version of Final Fantasy you have been playing, but I havent purchased a single piece of DLC and have experienced five endings thus far. You just need to work a bit more to get at the others, but they are there. Perhaps the DLC is for people who cant be bothered?
Again, this was started by people who didn't play the game, because the details of a DLC mission that takes place after the packaged game's storyline lead to the "You have to buy the real ending" rumors. Which, again, even if it were true, how would this be worse than Diablo 2, where you literally had to buy the expansion to see the conclusion of the story, or Halo 2 where you had to buy a full price sequel. Or any game that's released in the serialized format.

People find a reason to complain about everything, including when the game they bought, that they claim to enjoy, has more stuff for them to buy and enjoy when they are done with what came in the package.
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:19 AM   #107
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As I read through this thread it dawns on me how much money I have wasted on Video games.
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:52 AM   #108
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As I read through this thread it dawns on me how much money I have wasted on Video games.
Look at it this way, if it weren't video-games it would have been some other hobby, we all waste our money on some thing. It is what makes life interesting. Other hobbies include; RC, traveling, fishing, hunting, gardening, cars, motorcycles, etc. I know some people with multiple hobbies so they spend money so much faster then I do.
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:03 AM   #109
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As I read through this thread it dawns on me how much money I have wasted on Video games.
Would you rather have wasted it on drugs and hookers?
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:25 AM   #110
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As I read through this thread it dawns on me how much money I have invested on Video games.
Had to fix that for you.
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Old 02-27-2012, 12:20 PM   #111
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Oh no its not like that, I hardly wasted any money at all. I Only bought the gta IV expansion packs, skyrim and the metal gear solid re-issues for the 360, I borrowed battlefield 2 in 2011. Also I couldn't consider video gaming a "hobby" it is merely a pasttime when its too miserable to go sailing, or when hiding out for extended periods of time. It requires no actual skill just a functional nervous system.
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Old 02-27-2012, 12:25 PM   #112
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Would you rather have wasted it on drugs and hookers?
Money spent on drugs or hookers is never a waste.
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Old 02-27-2012, 12:54 PM   #113
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Oh no its not like that, I hardly wasted any money at all. I Only bought the gta IV expansion packs, skyrim and the metal gear solid re-issues for the 360, I borrowed battlefield 2 in 2011. Also I couldn't consider video gaming a "hobby" it is merely a pasttime when its too miserable to go sailing, or when hiding out for extended periods of time. It requires no actual skill just a functional nervous system.
You sail? You must be rich then But rich people can waste their money on anything they want.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:05 PM   #114
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I like to think were all rich when looked from certain perspective. I think this is a panic response to a saturated market (the $DLC).
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:54 PM   #115
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how would this be worse than Diablo 2, where you literally had to buy the expansion to see the conclusion of the story, or Halo 2 where you had to buy a full price sequel. Or any game that's released in the serialized format.
Serialized doesn't mean a missing end. And Halo 2 took a lot of hits for not having a real ending.

A good serialized property has each bit encapsulated such that it's a posychologically satisfying portion, which does in fact resolve some story lines while leaving other opens.

The truth is, virtually ever story ever told does this. Take Ringworld--the novel was meant to be a stand-alone book but proved so popular he wrote three more after it, and each wrapped up threads the previous books had left open.

Mass Effect has an overarching plot as well as the local plots, and it's the local plots that get resolved at their end, until the last one which wraps up everything.

But none of that is what I'm talking about. While story may be an important part of the end of a game, I'm talking about not wrapping up at all, about the ending of the story and the end of the GAME, meaning the last boss fight too, would be DLC, effectively selling you 90% of a game.

Again, I don't think it will ever happen in the industry. But if it does, that will be it for me.
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