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Old 06-22-2011, 10:42 PM   #1
Anenome
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Welcome to Atlantis

I consider this a central problem in modern politics--and I have the solution! Read the comic first, solution below:



((***Note, this first post contains an early version of the idea, read on for the latest version which is significantly different.)))

The solution:
Imagine if there were a state where only republicans were allowed to vote, and one where only democrats were allowed to vote.

In each state, that party would not be able to blame its opposition for the failings of its political policies.

Now, imagine these states separate but co-existing in the same region.

The democrats can have their law, the repubs can have their law, and citizens can choose which subset of laws they'd like to subscribe to.

This is the basis of the new legal order I'm building a new nation upon, a nation I call 'Atlantis.'

What's more, it won't be limited to two parties. If you don't like either the D or R political solutions, you start your own political party and anyone who subscribes is ruled by those laws instead.

And parties need not be comprehensive either. You might subscribe to one law that deals only with taxation, and another law that deals with housing.

What it results in is something admittedly more chaotic than the current system, but one in which you will never be forced to submit to the tyranny of majority just because they outvote you.

If you think another law is what suits you, and there's no moral or ethical reason why you shouldn't live by it, then you're free to do so.

It means the return of political experimentation. Experimentation that the US States were established to create, but which they've failed to achieve--largely because people don't like to move hundreds of miles to escape onerous regulations. In my system, you never have to move away from a political system you don't like.

And yes, there will be a basic bill of rights to protect basic fundamental protections and ensure no one can open a child-prostitution ring or the like. Everything must be between consenting adults, that is a fundamental organizing principle. It means a law governed by contract rather than by bureaucrats.

But where will you put this nation? I hear you asking.

The clue is in the name: Atlantis. It will be a nation on the water. An entire ocean of free space awaits us. Look at this image of the pacific ocean:



That is a LOT of space.

I propose a method of living on the water that would see floating cities spring up, allowing permanent ocean-dwelling, all while being sustainable and environmentally responsible.

It would use the concepts be pioneered in what's come to be known as Seasteading.

And may look something like this, except with hundreds of them:


We can grow our crops Israeli-style in circular towers. We can use wave-motion to produce energy and clean water via reverse-osmosis of salt-water. We can produce sea-food likely cheaper than any land-based fishery, meaning an innate aquaculture advantage, and we never have to pave a road!

So, call me crazy, but you heard it here first! If I make a billion dollars off one of my novels, I will make this happen ^_^
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:53 PM   #2
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Ummmmm..... so what, you're just gonna anchor that thing like 20 miles to the oceans floor and hope there are no waves that will crush your structure. It's a nice thought and all, but until the seas can be tamed, we will always need land.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:54 PM   #3
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Andrew, is that you?
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:03 PM   #4
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Ummmmm..... so what, you're just gonna anchor that thing like 20 miles to the oceans floor and hope there are no waves that will crush your structure. It's a nice thought and all, but until the seas can be tamed, we will always need land.
I didn't wanna talk about waves because it's hard to explain in words, but the wave problem has in fact been solved.

Scientists discovered a structure that can route waves completely around any sized dwelling or ocean-city you'd like.

This structure is not a wall, rather it's like concentric walls, but the walls have evenly spaced holes in them that are the same width as the wall-part--so think of it as like square pylons set at a regular distance from each other, and several rows of them.

It turns out that when a wave hits this structure it sets up interference waves that cause the wave to route itself around the concentric pylons and then re-emerge out the other side, the far side behind the city, as if it had never encountered a wall at all. This is theorized to be able to handle even tsunami-waves, as tsunami waves actually only becomes really dangerous when they hit land and turn into large surging waves due to the shallow depth.

Actually, I envision these pylons functioning as energy collectors as well, capturing wave action as energy through existing devices. They'd also be a good platform for solar-cells on top (they may protrude 20+ feet above water), and for osmotic production of fresh water. We may also be able to use wave action to produce and capture pressurized air.

Pressurized air can be used to replace electricity and fuel in many instances. It can power propellers on boats in a completely green way (replacing cars--actually cars can run on air-pressure too), washing machines, power tools, and many other appliances. It can also power refrigerators. And because it's wave-produced, it may be virtually free.

There's also the ability to produce energy by capturing the potential energy in tide-fluctuations. You can capture energy through both high tide and low tide via commonly known means.

It's all doable, my friend What's really needed is a pilot-city to pave the way, solve the initial problems, prove it a viable way to live, and that would be that

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Politics thread is politics thread.
No, it's about anti-politics :P It's about ending politics The ultimate solution to the problem of politics. The end of political opposition. Take your pick.
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:05 PM   #5
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Andrew, is that you?
What's this in reference to? :P I ain't not 'Andrew' :P
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Old 06-23-2011, 10:54 AM   #6
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Bioshock Anenome...he was referring to Bioshock. Remember Bioshock? Fucking plasmids how do they work?
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Old 06-23-2011, 10:59 AM   #7
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Politics thread is politics thread.
Water is wet. Truism is true. You are correct.

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What's this in reference to? :P I ain't not 'Andrew' :P
:facepalm: And you mocked me over missing a reference in someone calling someone else an asshole?
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Old 06-23-2011, 11:34 AM   #8
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It must be nice to live with your head in the skies constantly dreaming of things that will never happen.
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Old 06-23-2011, 12:40 PM   #9
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AP: Plasmids turned out to be pretty boring >_> and I never got far enough to meet little sisters or w/e.

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It must be nice to live with your head in the skies constantly dreaming of things that will never happen.
I'm a writer!

This mostly comes from research for a novel where, shockingly, the characters end up living on the water in the form I propose :P

Still, the research has also convinced me that it's actually possible

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:facepalm: And you mocked me over missing a reference in someone calling someone else an asshole?
Own it, never beat it. Didn't actually play that much of it :\ Didn't "mock you."
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:13 AM   #10
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Lilypad floating city concept






Quote:
Three marinas and three mountains would surround a centrally located artificial lagoon that is totally immersed below the water line to act as ballast for the city. The three mountains and marinas would be dedicated to work, shopping and entertainment, respectively, while suspended gardens and aquaculture farms located below the water line would be used to grow food and biomass.
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Old 07-06-2011, 05:46 AM   #11
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Are those mercedes symbols all over it?

nm obviously turbines now that I had a second look.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:01 AM   #12
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All we need to do is change our democracy to the democracy standard that they have in certain european countries.

Instead of Party A winning or Party B winning -
If party A gets 30% of the vote, then 30% of the cabinet is party A, if party B gets 25% of the vote, then 25% of the cabinet is party B. This trickles all the way down to party Z if party Z gets enough of the vote to still have a statistical place on the cabinet - then there will be at least one member from party Z on the cabinet.
*Cabinet is the wrong term for this government.

and now i leave this thread forever.
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Old 07-06-2011, 11:34 AM   #13
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All we need to do is change our democracy to the democracy standard that they have in certain european countries.

Instead of Party A winning or Party B winning -
If party A gets 30% of the vote, then 30% of the cabinet is party A, if party B gets 25% of the vote, then 25% of the cabinet is party B. This trickles all the way down to party Z if party Z gets enough of the vote to still have a statistical place on the cabinet - then there will be at least one member from party Z on the cabinet.
*Cabinet is the wrong term for this government.

and now i leave this thread forever.
I think my system is even better than this, as this still subjects the individual to the tyranny of the majority.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:59 PM   #14
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"A man chooses, a slave obeys."

That aside, my only issue living on the water would be the Craken from Pirates of the Carribean II. That movie taught me so many things... like never seeing another one.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:01 PM   #15
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"A man chooses, a slave obeys."
This is a good quote. I think I know exactly what you mean.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:58 PM   #16
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Have you played Bioshock Sion? It was a reference to...meh.
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Old 07-10-2011, 11:19 AM   #17
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Have you played Bioshock Sion? It was a reference to...meh.
True, but it's also true IRL, no? After all, Bioshock was an adaptation of some of Rand's utopian ideas into a dystopia.

I think it's funny that I haven't yet played through Bioshock, yet I've set myself up as an Andrew Ryan figure >_> Promise I won't go crazy with power or w/e he did :P
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:45 PM   #18
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Good because I'll beat you with a golf club if you do. Or you will. Because I... never mind.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:53 PM   #19
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Good because I'll beat you with a golf club if you do. Or you will. Because I... never mind.
He missed one of the greatest moment in gaming...sad.
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Old 07-13-2011, 07:53 PM   #20
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There's plenty of good moments to be had. We've all missed some.
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