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Old 06-30-2013, 03:52 PM   #61
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This thread is full of the tears of manchildren.
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Old 06-30-2013, 07:43 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Stooby View Post
happy employees are productive employees.
Words of wisdom and it's a shame this isn't understood more (not just the gaming industry but EVERY industry).
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Old 06-30-2013, 09:22 PM   #63
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Warehouse selectors down the street from me on good teams average $22 an hour. This is a job that requires ~3rd grade education level although it is a demanding job on the physical end. If these guys worked 60 hours a week, as many game developers do, and they happened to have a wife doing to the same job making the same money they would be pulling in $160K a year as a married couple.

$160K a year for a married couple doing a job that requires a third grade education working the hours that game developers do. If we use the no more then 12% of monthly income for a car based on that salary we would have an allowance of $1600 a month for automotive needs. Without a down payment, a $70K car on a 5 year note would have a monthly payment of $1,334.20.

Of course, we are talking about guys who work their ass off 60 hours a week, and those are the people that this guy wants to carry his class warfare torch against? When the Marxists do this kind of crap against trust fund babies, personal injury lawyers and the like I can at least see where they are coming from, I don't *agree* with them, but I can understand their point.

Quite frankly, I think game developers overall are rather underpaid, by a very hefty amount. When Tom Cruise is pulling down ~$10 million a movie why shouldn't the guys from Naughty Dog be driving around in $200K cars? They work harder then he does, they generate more money, the revenue is there along with the work. Hopefully, they get huge bonus checks and maybe we can see them driving around in a new Veyron and get this guy really wound up(let's see his thoughts on a game dev driving around a $2Million dollar car ).
I think it really falls into a category of personal ability. As you say those warehouse workers may not have high level educations, they also are physically able to do the very demanding labor they do. On the other side of the coin, we can easily bet that some game developers (at least one if not more) are not exactly able to do physical labor like that.

I graduated college with an education in computer I.T., and aside from the challenges of finding a job in that market, personally I could not do that warehouse job. For many physical reasons, I wouldn't be able to.

Like the old saying goes, "the world needs ditch diggers too". It's very true, just for those warehouse folk they also happen to make a lot of money whilst doing it.

Honestly I think those warehouse workers are probably the exception to the rule. I mean, your typical retail job at say a Walmart or Best Buy where you're stocking shelves and other things is just about equal in physical demand. The difference is those retail jobs often pay minimum wage for the same amount of physical effort.
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:13 AM   #64
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Honestly I think those warehouse workers are probably the exception to the rule. I mean, your typical retail job at say a Walmart or Best Buy where you're stocking shelves and other things is just about equal in physical demand. The difference is those retail jobs often pay minimum wage for the same amount of physical effort.
I'm going to say you are *horribly* wrong, but I'm glad you made the comparison because it is relevant to the conversation. Those warehouse guys, to be at that pay rate, need to move ~4500lbs of freight per hour(actually measured by cases, but given average weight of a case it works out to about that- my professional life is distribution, making sure merchandise moves from factory to store shelves, I'm not guessing on throughput ). A typical WalMart employee will move, on the upper end, 200lbs an hour. Comparing a WalMart stocker to a high end warehouse selector is akin to comparing a data entry clerk with an assembly level optimizer. On the abstract, they both observe something, process it in their brain, then make keystrokes. The data entry clerk is going to make money comparable to the WalMart employee, the assembly optimizer is going to make money comparable to the high end warehouse selector(actually beyond that to be totally honest, the human body would break down doing the work they do for 60 hours a week). Their is more then an order of magnitude difference in the amount of actual work they do, if you break down on the productivity scale the WalMart stockers at minimum wage are actually *grossly* overpaid(or, the selectors are underpaid).
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:41 AM   #65
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I'm going to say you are *horribly* wrong, but I'm glad you made the comparison because it is relevant to the conversation. Those warehouse guys, to be at that pay rate, need to move ~4500lbs of freight per hour(actually measured by cases, but given average weight of a case it works out to about that- my professional life is distribution, making sure merchandise moves from factory to store shelves, I'm not guessing on throughput ). A typical WalMart employee will move, on the upper end, 200lbs an hour. Comparing a WalMart stocker to a high end warehouse selector is akin to comparing a data entry clerk with an assembly level optimizer. On the abstract, they both observe something, process it in their brain, then make keystrokes. The data entry clerk is going to make money comparable to the WalMart employee, the assembly optimizer is going to make money comparable to the high end warehouse selector(actually beyond that to be totally honest, the human body would break down doing the work they do for 60 hours a week). Their is more then an order of magnitude difference in the amount of actual work they do, if you break down on the productivity scale the WalMart stockers at minimum wage are actually *grossly* overpaid(or, the selectors are underpaid).
I think it varies, for retail job. I once had a after school job at a local mall, at one of those everything-is-one-dollar type places. I worked mainly late night when the mall was closed on the weekend so it was great scheduling. But it was the most physically grueling job I ever had. We had to unload the delivery trucks, boxes upon boxes of merchandise. Some could super light weight, overs could be heavy as fuck (often requiring two or more of us to lift it). We had no crane, or forklift or anything.

We then had to wheel it all the way to the store once we unloaded it from the truck (truck portion was by hand). Once in the store, we had to unload it all again by hand, off the wheelie thing. Rinse repeat until the truck was empty. Then we had to open all boxes, restock all shelves, throw away old merchandise (such as food that was past due), break down all the boxes and put them in the big dumpster the mall had.

I know it's not down to the wire close to the 4500 lbs you mention but you can see my point. Sometimes some jobs in the same field need a pay raise to make them at least more in line with others. If that same mall store offered me a job there now, roughly 12 years later at the age of 32 I wouldn't be able to do it.

Good discussion though, I like talking about economics time to time, nice to have it not turn into a flame war
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