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Old 04-13-2013, 01:19 PM   #61
gzsfrk
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It's not just about the always-on requirement. I have broadband, and my 360 has never left its perch in our movie room since I bought it.

But what I am concerned about is why it will require always-on. There's nothing consumer friendly about it, I can guarantee you that. It's the undermining of the used games market, telling me I can't sell or give away to someone else something I bought, that I'm effectively only buying a "license to use" and not owning anything when I purchase a game. Screw that, unless game prices come down significantly to reflect the value lost by the consumer in the "brave new world". (And we all know there's absolutely no chance of that happening; likely the opposite, in fact.)
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:22 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by lockwoodx View Post
Cliffy's correct as usual. If you truly care about gaming then you already have broadband / a reliable internet connection.
It's not a matter of being worried about what happens if my Internet connection goes down. It's the idea that my console won't play my game until some third party says it's okay for that to happen.

Even if the Technology Fairy came down into my home and gave me a free magical Internet connection with infinite up/down, zero latency, and 100% uptime, I still wouldn't buy a console that "needs" an Internet connection to play a single-player game, just as I would never buy a car that won't start unless the radio is turned on even though I like listening to the radio when I drive.

I am not eight years old, and Microsoft is not my mom. I will not accept that I need their permission to play video games. And if you respond with anything like "But they'll always give you permission", then you're still missing the point. I shouldn't have to ask in the first place. And I'm not going to.
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:25 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by gzsfrk View Post
It's not just about the always-on requirement. I have broadband, and my 360 has never left its perch in our movie room since I bought it.

But what I am concerned about is why it will require always-on. There's nothing consumer friendly about it, I can guarantee you that. It's the undermining of the used games market, telling me I can't sell or give away to someone else something I bought, that I'm effectively only buying a "license to use" and not owning anything when I purchase a game. Screw that, unless game prices come down significantly to reflect the value lost by the consumer in the "brave new world". (And we all know there's absolutely no chance of that happening; likely the opposite, in fact.)
Agreed. This isn't about delivering a better product to the consumer it's about giving more control to the publishers. People are often, especially on these boards, upset with companies such as EA for dropping servers and understandably so. This is just a further extension of that same control and ultimately ability to pull the plug on the consumer when they want.
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:29 PM   #64
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WHAT THE HELL?!? Do I have to post a video with how goddamn slow my 360 experience is? I don't think you're a pro Sony guy at all with all the things you've said about the Vita. In fact, I think you're the troll.
The Vita is irrelevant, just like the PSP was. Sorry for speaking truth instead of cater to your narrow-minded, boxed-in perspective.

Your experience =/= everyone's experience. The PS3 is commonly known for extremely slow update times and the 360 is commonly known for extremely fast update times.


Common sense failure on your part, as usual.
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Old 04-13-2013, 02:09 PM   #65
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I live in the woods, but not so deep that I am away from the world. A town is only 10 minutes from me. But regardless, it's not a "week long vacation". I'm not far from Seattle, btw, so it's not like I am in some random fly-over state that doesn't have good access anyway. Redmond WA (home of Microsoft) is less than 20 minutes from me, ffs).

I say that to prove that even in highly populated and technology-rich areas don't always have the best internet, I can't imagine what it must be like to TRULY be way out in the country barely on dial-up.

While I do have the internet, it's spotty and not fast at all. I can BARELY get Hulu and Netflix (and only at low qualities that give error messages often). I greatly appreciate being able to play games offline where I live.

Now...I did choose to buy this house and I love it to death. Being able to wake up to birds chirping and deer passing across my driveway is pretty damn magical. So part of being able to live in such a place is limited internet.

So I have, in fact, "dealt with it".
But the reality is - if a console requires itself to be online ALL THE TIME, I will not buy it.
If they are cool with that, then so be it. But I'm not just whining for the sake of whining. I just already deal with so much in the way of limited internet, I don't need a console that will be giving me error messages just to play a stupid game.
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:00 PM   #66
uroboros33
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Let's assume, for a moment, that everyone MS wants to sell to has a reliable high-speed internet connection with no down time. I have high-speed Internet and it is almost never down. The bigger issue is that an always-on connection requirement for games means the game I bought has to connect to an external server to work. What happens when the publisher goes out of business or just decides to stop supporting their game? Even though my internet connection is fine, they can just pull the plug on a game i bought. Ask someone how their single-player experience with Hellgate: London is going today...

A single-player game I buy shouldn't have to ask permission from a remote server to actually work for me.
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:01 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by VenomUSMC View Post
Agreed. This isn't about delivering a better product to the consumer it's about giving more control to the publishers. People are often, especially on these boards, upset with companies such as EA for dropping servers and understandably so. This is just a further extension of that same control and ultimately ability to pull the plug on the consumer when they want.
Yeah, I can see the point here. With the PC, always online works because Windows has made backwards compatibility modules for ancient games. With always online verification, how will it effect retro-gaming?

My guess is that it's just an auth server and Microsoft will keep it running for 50 years or more - or they'll release a hardware patch that makes it so that you can play them without authentication.

It's kind of a longview concern though, and one they will probably have to address. People said the same things about Steam when it was launching. I remember being super-annoyed that I had to get it with the Orange Box.

Anyway, it's a discussion that can't really go further until they actually announce.
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:02 PM   #68
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I'll let everyone in on a secret. A deep dark one. One spoken in hushed tones. That secret: MS doesn't give a shit about games; the Xbox was never about games, it was about MS becoming the media center of the living room and controlling that. This is what is happening here. They are going to sell or attempt to sell this to cable providers as a set top box. It's just MS trying to beat Google, Apple, and others.

MS doesn't give a crap about games nor about gamers, your just a means to an end.
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:23 PM   #69
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Yeah, I can see the point here. With the PC, always online works because Windows has made backwards compatibility modules for ancient games. With always online verification, how will it effect retro-gaming?

My guess is that it's just an auth server and Microsoft will keep it running for 50 years or more - or they'll release a hardware patch that makes it so that you can play them without authentication.

It's kind of a longview concern though, and one they will probably have to address. People said the same things about Steam when it was launching. I remember being super-annoyed that I had to get it with the Orange Box.

Anyway, it's a discussion that can't really go further until they actually announce.
Yeah, as you said, I think we just will have to wait and actually see what they officially announce.
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:59 PM   #70
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Well I give Cliffy-B's rant a 8/10. I know this rant was better than his last one but he still gets an 8/10.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:50 PM   #71
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I am not eight years old, and Microsoft is not my mom. I will not accept that I need their permission to play video games.
I appreciate you "get it" because besides the obvious revenue generation this would create, it's about the industry trying to mold its customer's attitudes. Lately the gaming community has become more "aware and vocal" and the industry is trying to "retrain us.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:04 PM   #72
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I heard the real reason Cliffy quit is because he wasn't the only one at work with a supercar anymore.

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Old 04-13-2013, 06:20 PM   #73
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I'll put my 2 cents in for the side that has no interest in online functionality. Aside from occasionally grabbing user-enhanced content (steam workshop) or single-player focused DLC, I really don't interact online with my games. I have no interest in it, and even in interesting use cases, like dark souls, it's not that compelling.

So, there is absolutely no reason for me to want an always on connection. And as someone who continues to play games 30 years after release, I can only see it as an anti-consumer strategy. It does not meet my needs, while so many other options do.

The sad thing about this rumor is, it has me pondering my history with the 360 to see what I would lose if I decided not to jump into their next-gen strategy...and I find the answer to be not much. While I stuck with the 360 as my console of choice for multiplatform titles, due typically to its better specs, once the next gen comes out, I don't really expect the differences to be distinct enough for me to care.

Sony, despite all their disdain for securing console exclusives this gen, has actually managed to produce a solid library of exclusives that I actually care about. So, I'm thinking that between the WiiU, PS4 and PC gaming, I really don't know where the nextbox fits into the picture. Certainly, not if it takes this rumor and runs with it. I haven't missed out on anything by ignoring Origin only games, and for now, I envision the same with MS.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:30 PM   #74
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I am a pc gamer with a 360, I have had an original x-box and a 360 since their release. I spent more time on the original x-box live than the current one, and my console has not had an available cable or wireless connection for some time. I don't know why I would ever buy the next x-box if it becomes more difficult to play games on than my computer.

I do not have x-box live friends, I do not enjoy competitive gaming, I buy most games with dlc on my pc. I have not seen a use for gold other than the odd time my friend and I want to play on two systems at his place, on two tv's. Sometimes it isn't about your isp, sometimes the person just doesn't want to put their box online, or they don't have the means to.
Same. Roughly 19% of all consoles are activated or are online...so let's see how this goes. (lol)
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:21 PM   #75
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I hear them saying the system will always be on. But have not heard anyone say that it will be always on DRM. It really seems to me that people are still pissed about sim city and assume that is what these people mean by an always on system.

Even if it is some sort of steam like system where every game has to be activated over the internet once before use I would be happy. If a timeout will kill my game I will wait a year and see how it pans out.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:42 PM   #76
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I've stared at that picture too long, now all I can think of is Out Run.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:44 PM   #77
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I've stared at that picture too long, now all I can think of is Out Run.
Same thing lol. I think it's the F40.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:46 PM   #78
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Gzsfrk take a good high rez Ferrari picture or pictures and shop the Out Run logo in one of the corners. Then blow it up into a poster and frame it to put in your man cave on the wall behind or next to your cabinet.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:15 PM   #79
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I beat you that, if the xbox has always online and the ps4 doesn't, there will be no difference than the stats we have today. Because at the end of the day, when it becomes cheap enough, people will buy it. SO really, its not a matter of if you will, its the matter of when.
By the time it gets that late the race is already run.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:17 PM   #80
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The fascinating thing about the video game industry is the immaturity of so many of the key members (and former members) of the community. I can think of no other major industry where individuals involved in creating a product routinely insult their customers with so little introspection, caution, or humility.

It's so clear that this industry in particular is populated with far too many immature, narcissistic, self-entitled, spoiled, impulsive individuals. I really think it has a lot to do with the fact that many of the key players are young, single men...perhaps the worst-behaving cohort in society.
Funnier still is that the consumers who bitch and moan about being bent over year after year are then the ones who then say "yes, give me more!" Every time they're asked if they'd like more of the same.

Seriously, they're doing it because they know they can get away with it and make even bigger profits in the process.

I'm also one of those solo/single player gamers that doesn't give a crap about online 'features' and since I've enjoyed my ps3 much more than my 360, ill probably get a ps4 to supplement my pc/iPad gaming.
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