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Old 06-15-2012, 09:13 AM   #21
vallor
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Is there a lot of violence? Yes, but I wonder how much of that statement is to underhandedly suggest to people:
1) MY game is above the fray, come here and buy this if you want to get out of the norm and
2) I feel so much better about myself because I don't make these kinds of games *anymore*.
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:48 AM   #22
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I've been playing the latest Max Payne and being vaguely bored. Killing people repeatedly has turned into a "turn the white dot red and click" game, and the story isn't holding my attention well enough to continue.

At the same time, I enjoy DayZ and Minecraft. Both are violent in different ways, though it's not necessarily the focus of either. Mostly I enjoy the ability to create my own story as I see fit.

My point is that violence doesn't make for good gameplay. When I play a violent game, there better be interesting gameplay behind it or I'll stop playing.
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:54 AM   #23
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Warren Spector, Peter Molyneux and Richard Garriott should buy some plaid pants and play golf together.
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:17 AM   #24
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How quick we are to criticize a legend! I replayed Deus Ex last year, and it's still better than any game in recent memory, including Bioshock. So quell your tongue, naysayers; the man has a point to make and he's far more qualified than you. His point is extremely fair: he stated that he did not 'believe in the effects' of violence, and neither do I, but spoke only to the taste, and that's a perfectly legitimate opinion. What's more, I think he may be right. That's not to say I don't enjoy my super violent games, I just finished playing through Uncharted 3, so there goes a body count that numbers in the hundreds. But it does make video games a decidedly single-note song, a one-trick pony. And, especialyl when you look at sexuality in video games as well, it is indeed immature. It pales horribly in comparison, at least. to other mediums that are able to deal with issues in a serious and adult manner. I think we should still have our fun, but it would be nice and definitely in the way of progress to widen the scope of games so that it can be taken as seriously as film, literature, so on and so forht.
One of the things I distinctly remember from the first DX game was that if you went through the entire Liberty Island (first mission) using non-lethal means - they gave you some extra firepower. I think the line went "you obviously know when to use it". THAT was awesome.
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Old 06-15-2012, 12:04 PM   #25
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I personally like being able to play a game to thirst my lust for violence.
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Old 06-15-2012, 12:53 PM   #26
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i think what he wasn't enunciating there was that all these violent games are getting into the hands of kids. the publishers say one thing and then pander the games to kiddies, who of course think they're all mature as soon as they're even remotely close to starting puberty.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:10 PM   #27
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Leave it to you to take a subject and turn it into another. The interview was ABOUT violence, not quality. Quality and violence are obviously two different subjects. By your logic if you're not good at your job you have no right to discuss things that DON'T involve your job.

He's talking about effects of violence on people and it being excessive in this day and age. You're trying to use an entirely different subject to negate his argument. Not very "adult-like" behavior for someone emphasizing that he's an adult.
Wait-wait-wait, are you suggesting that Evil is making a straw man arguement ... on the Internet of all places? Thank goodness I was sitting down.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:11 PM   #28
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Warren Spector can kiss my ass.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:14 PM   #29
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Don't care. More violence is good. More sex is good. Games are games, real life is real life.

I'm an adult and I can decide for myself which games are "too violent" or which games have too much sexuality and for me personally the answer will probably never be enough of either. If my main character was one of the Texas Chainsaw Hookers the game would probably work just fine for me, because that is who I am and I'm not ashamed of loving a little bit of the ultraviolence.

What is missing from his comments is quality. Who cares if the game is violent? I only care if it is a damn fine game and it is fun to play.

His more recent games aren't fun to play. As gamers why should we listen to developers who make mediocre kids games???

If the people who made Super Mario Sunshine want to look at some violent shooter and say, "The gameplay wasn't very good." and give some reasons why, then you might want to listen to them.

The developers of Epic Mickey? Not so much.
Wow, that was so much more elegant and eloquent than "Warren Spector can kiss my ass", even though you meant the same thing.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:40 PM   #30
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Is there a lot of violence? Yes, but I wonder how much of that statement is to underhandedly suggest to people:
1) MY game is above the fray, come here and buy this if you want to get out of the norm and
2) I feel so much better about myself because I don't make these kinds of games *anymore*.
I grimmaced when I saw that quote from Spector becuase, even though I agree with him, that's exactly what it looks like.

I feel quite certain he would have that opnion regardless, though.

I mean, I think any aging game developer aside from maybe Ed Boon would feel the same way. Games initially were presented as simply "eliminating" bayguys. Then it became killing them. Then brutally killing them. Now torturing them. I mean, it's gotten to the point where teh gameplay can't even support that level of violence. They have to make up Quicktime events, which are just an excuse really, to make these ultroviolent snuff animations.

He's right. It can't continue for no ohter reason than it won't hold people's interest. Violece and sex is the "icing" on a substitive cake of proper gameplay. If the industry doesn't change, they're going to keep turning out lollypop chainsaws that titilate but bore people. THen they'll abandon gaming and not have any reason why they started to hate it.

People are stupid that way.
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:03 PM   #31
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Leave it to you to take a subject and turn it into another. The interview was ABOUT violence, not quality. Quality and violence are obviously two different subjects. By your logic if you're not good at your job you have no right to discuss things that DON'T involve your job.

He's talking about effects of violence on people and it being excessive in this day and age. You're trying to use an entirely different subject to negate his argument. Not very "adult-like" behavior for someone emphasizing that he's an adult.
WRONG. What I did was refine the discussion. He is saying games are too violent. I'm saying that I don't care if games are too violent, I only care if they are GOOD GAMES.

Since he isn't a developer of the above good games I don't think we should take is comments about the level of violence in our hobby all that seriously.

Yes, it is possible to critique something you don't make, we do that all the time around here, but he isn't making a critique -- he is taking pot shots at his competition for creating a type of game that he doesn't make any more and doing it from a position of subserviance to the people he is trying to slam.

Again, if he was going to offer a critique of a specific title for it's gameplay that would be a valid comment. Simply saying there was too much violence is a waste. It is trolling for attention from a developer whose games we are looking at and saying, "Meh."
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:05 PM   #32
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He's right. It can't continue for no other reason than it won't hold people's interest. Violece and sex is the "icing" on a substitive cake of proper gameplay. If the industry doesn't change, they're going to keep turning out lollypop chainsaws that titilate but bore people. THen they'll abandon gaming and not have any reason why they started to hate it.
Except you missed the part where Lollipop Chainsaw is a pretty damn good game.
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:41 PM   #33
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Well I'm just going from what feedback I Heard which is basically Giant Bomb and IGN. The comments seemed to be that everything abotu it was awesome except the actual moment to moment gameplay wasn't any fun.
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:29 PM   #34
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Ultraviolence in games has always been a turn off for me. Few exceptions here and there, like I still managed to enjoy Bulletstorm in spite of its over the top brutality. Generally though, I avoid that kind of game. The industry glorifying ultraviolence has always been something that kinda bugged me, but I just play around it where I can.

I'll play for challenge, I'll play for story, I'll play for exploration. Won't ever pick up a game just so I can slaughter stuff in the most brutal ways possible, simply for the hell of it.
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:36 PM   #35
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Does this make anyone else want to watch A Clockwork Orange?
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:48 PM   #36
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WRONG. What I did was refine the discussion.
Changing the subject completely and bashing him for something completely unrelated to the discussion is not "refinement."
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:48 PM   #37
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Does this make anyone else want to watch A Clockwork Orange?
Now that you mention it...

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Old 06-15-2012, 04:55 PM   #38
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Changing the subject completely and bashing him for something completely unrelated to the discussion is not "refinement."
No, it wouldn't be, if he had actually done that. Which he did not.

And what do you expect but ultraviolence in a society that allows almost no sex in videogames?

Look at Japan, there are no Gears of War, God of War, or Call of Duty games made there, but there are tons of sex games.

I'm sure there's a psyscological correlation there having to do with satisfying basic needs in one way OR another, but I'm not smart enough to describe or understand it. I've probably been dumbed down by too many violent games.

I think in the end it all boils down to this: violent games, sexy games, boring games, and chess.
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Old 06-15-2012, 05:15 PM   #39
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Also, it has never bothered me that many of the dudes in video games had excellent bodies and odd or scanty clothing--women should STFU if they really want equal treatment and regard.
This trope has always bothered me. Guys who trot this out are completely oblivious to marketing. Buff half-dressed men in games, movies, etc are not being marketed to women. They are being marketed to *men* as they are the epitomy of the male idea of a man's man. If you wish to see the women's ideal, read a romance novel, you'll find men who are nothing like the Conan style men that you see in movies and video games.

There is no female demographic that the men in these games are being marketed towards. There is, however, a large male demographic that would love to be the kind of man in these games, and win the affections of women who dress and behave like the women in these games(who are just as imaginary as the males).
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Old 06-15-2012, 05:17 PM   #40
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I'll admit that, as I get older, I feel what he's saying. More and more I find myself noticing that this particular hobby of mine (and indeed other hobbies such as board gaming or roleplaying) seems to revolve around killing; it has gotten to a point where I sometimes wonder if I'm comfortable with it.

Then I'll read or watch the news to catch up on world events and, as often as not, it seems to revolve around killing. This of course begs the obvious chicken-or-the-egg type question in regards to the relation between our nature and the content of our hobby.

Still, for the most part I find myself stashing the conundrum in the back of my mind and carrying on with the hobby - despite feeling a bit dirty about it from time to time.
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