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Old 06-04-2012, 02:22 AM   #81
Anenome
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Honestly, that looks like the best controller that's ever been produced. And if it feels anything like the Gamecube controller, lawdy lawdy that controller was fine.

The right stick being ABOVE the buttons is clearly the right call, always disliked the incongruity of the Xbox controller and the way it separated thumb and shoulder buttons so much. I wouldn't be surprised if MS makes their new controller with a very similar setup.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:24 AM   #82
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Actually, there is one flaw with that controller. The secondary trigger buttons should be much lower, under the controller such that you can hit them with your middle fingers where they're naturally placed while holding the controller rather than having to move your index fingers off the shoulders and onto the triggers.

I had an MS controller for PC that had this feature and it ROCKED. Till it broke years later :\ was wonderful until then. Never could figure out why console controllers have never gone to that setup because it was goddamn perfect.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:31 AM   #83
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I agree. Now bring on the games. F-Zero in 1080p please!
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:05 AM   #84
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Mouse elbow... I have never heard of that. Huh.
I get it, that why i hate the wii controls so much, my wrist and elbow are shot from playing games.
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Old 06-04-2012, 05:39 AM   #85
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I didn't say 3rd parties weren't represented on the console, just that 3rd parties had a hard time being successful on the console. If you look at the Wii games the top charts are dominated by Nintendo IPs. Only a few 3rd party titles actually register as more than a blip. This is something I think Nintendo needs to address. It takes a lot to convince a 3rd party to ramp up a team to focus exclusively on your hardware because everything has to be created from scratch.

At least between Xbox and PS3 you could share SOME stuff, but with the Wii you'd have to touch everything again... assets would have to be reworked, systems refactored... you may as well create the whole game again and STILL not be able to make a dent compared to the Nintendo 1st party titles. Chicken and the egg right? You need the 1st party IPs to be there to sell systems so there is enough volume for me to consider bringing my IP over. But then everyone is spending their dollars on the Mario's and Zelda's they've had to put out to sustain the system and my IP isn't strong enough to register against those juggernauts. Now the Wii teams I've spooled up on are a loss for me.

It's good that the Wii hardware made a profit but that profit only goes to Nintendo. Metrics like attach rate are better measurements of how healthy the entire ecosystem is and, despite the hardware advantage, Wii attach rates were super low.

Of course this is all moot if the strategy for Nintendo IS to fully support the system themselves while any 3rd party activity is just "bonus". But they make a lot more money for less effort in the licensing business which is why it seems strange to me that they are so (seemingly) uninterested in helping 3rd parties be successful on their console.
Every platform is dominated by first party games. Maybe not to the extent that Nintendo consoles are, but as a general rule you'll see about 50% of the top 10 or 20 games are first party. Even so, the games that aren't first party in the top sellers lists are mostly dominated by a single publisher anyway. On PS2, it was Take2 with the GTA series. On 360, every non-first party game in the top 5 overall sales list is a Call of Duty game, and all but one in the top 10 is (and it's GTA4).

So if your point is "It's hard for 3rd parties to make money", well, yeah. It is. On Wii you compete with Nintendo, but on 360/PS3 you compete with MS/Sony *and* the huge blockbuster games like COD and GTA. 360/PS3 is good for Activision, T2 and EA more than it is for "third parties" in general.

Games need to be appropriate for the platform as well. If you look at the 3rd party franchises that are successful on Wii, they are games that take advantage of the Wii's unique feature set. Even though the other platforms have added motion controls, they aren't guaranteed there. A game like Just Dance sells well if you know people can actually play it. And more importantly, if people know they can play it. Just Dance 3 sold 3x on the Wii what it sold on 360 and PS3 combined.

And that brings me to the notion that somehow Nintendo is doing itself a disservice by not releasing it's games on other platforms. The evidence that's out there points to the fact that games that start on the Wii, regardless of how successful they are, don't as well on other platforms anyway. I already brought up Just Dance. But "Mature" titles like House of the Dead Overkill, which sold a measly .8M worldwide on Wii managed to sell a mere .22M when it was redone in HD with extra levels and released at a "budget price" (@29.99 IIRC) on PS3. The Raving Rabbids games all did well on Wii, but not so much on 360. Goldeneye 007 on Wii sold twice what the 360/ps3 versions did. Combined.

Games have to be appropriate for the demographics that own the console. You can't release lightgun games like Attack of the Movies on Xbox 360 and think it will be enjoyable for anyone. The Wii version sold horribly (70K), but still smashed the 360 release (30K). Just like you can't expect COD to be a huge franchise on a platform with non-standard controls and weak online infrastructure.

3rd party games fail on Wii for the same reason they fail on other platforms, because they aren't appropriate for the hardware or the players who own it.
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:10 AM   #86
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boring same ole nintendo. have fun shaking your dongles at each other in first party titles
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:56 AM   #87
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Every platform is dominated by first party games. Maybe not to the extent that Nintendo consoles are, but as a general rule you'll see about 50% of the top 10 or 20 games are first party. Even so, the games that aren't first party in the top sellers lists are mostly dominated by a single publisher anyway. On PS2, it was Take2 with the GTA series. On 360, every non-first party game in the top 5 overall sales list is a Call of Duty game, and all but one in the top 10 is (and it's GTA4).

So if your point is "It's hard for 3rd parties to make money", well, yeah. It is. On Wii you compete with Nintendo, but on 360/PS3 you compete with MS/Sony *and* the huge blockbuster games like COD and GTA. 360/PS3 is good for Activision, T2 and EA more than it is for "third parties" in general.

Games need to be appropriate for the platform as well. If you look at the 3rd party franchises that are successful on Wii, they are games that take advantage of the Wii's unique feature set. Even though the other platforms have added motion controls, they aren't guaranteed there. A game like Just Dance sells well if you know people can actually play it. And more importantly, if people know they can play it. Just Dance 3 sold 3x on the Wii what it sold on 360 and PS3 combined.

And that brings me to the notion that somehow Nintendo is doing itself a disservice by not releasing it's games on other platforms. The evidence that's out there points to the fact that games that start on the Wii, regardless of how successful they are, don't as well on other platforms anyway. I already brought up Just Dance. But "Mature" titles like House of the Dead Overkill, which sold a measly .8M worldwide on Wii managed to sell a mere .22M when it was redone in HD with extra levels and released at a "budget price" (@29.99 IIRC) on PS3. The Raving Rabbids games all did well on Wii, but not so much on 360. Goldeneye 007 on Wii sold twice what the 360/ps3 versions did. Combined.

Games have to be appropriate for the demographics that own the console. You can't release lightgun games like Attack of the Movies on Xbox 360 and think it will be enjoyable for anyone. The Wii version sold horribly (70K), but still smashed the 360 release (30K). Just like you can't expect COD to be a huge franchise on a platform with non-standard controls and weak online infrastructure.

3rd party games fail on Wii for the same reason they fail on other platforms, because they aren't appropriate for the hardware or the players who own it.

Truth. It makes no sense to say that Nintendo is just too good to complete with. "Someone needs to talk to NIntendo about making such good games. They're making it too hard for the rest of us!"
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Old 06-04-2012, 04:50 PM   #88
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Honestly, that looks like the best controller that's ever been produced. And if it feels anything like the Gamecube controller, lawdy lawdy that controller was fine.

The right stick being ABOVE the buttons is clearly the right call, always disliked the incongruity of the Xbox controller and the way it separated thumb and shoulder buttons so much. I wouldn't be surprised if MS makes their new controller with a very similar setup.
Disagree with everything said here. But I suppose it's just preference.

For me, the GC controller was the worst. A lot of people stated that the controller's layout seemed perfect for them, but to me it was a total mess. The B button was entirely too small and there's no excuse for a CONSOLE'S D-pad to be the exact same size as the Game Boy's.

When it comes to reaction time (which is extremely important), the buttons being below the stick is clearly a disadvantage, at least by default. Not to mention controllers have had the opposite as a standard for over a decade, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:08 AM   #89
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Truth. It makes no sense to say that Nintendo is just too good to complete with. "Someone needs to talk to NIntendo about making such good games. They're making it too hard for the rest of us!"
wrong on so many levels.
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:35 AM   #90
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Kind of going against the argument here, but I hope Nintendo doesn't announce HD Zelda as a launch title during their conference today. Do not want to buy a Wii U day one.
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