Evil Avatar  




Go Back   Evil Avatar > Daily Gaming News > News Items

» Sponsored Links


» Recent Threads
Insidious: Chapter 3...
Last post by Teh Super King
Today 11:54 PM
6 Replies, 649 Views
Fantasy Life anyone?
Last post by brandonjclark
Today 10:39 PM
3 Replies, 150 Views
Here's What Will Happen...
Last post by Evil Avatar
Today 10:34 PM
57 Replies, 3,621 Views
V/H/S Viral
Last post by Evil Avatar
Today 10:08 PM
0 Replies, 116 Views
Late Phases Trailer
Last post by Evil Avatar
Today 09:15 PM
3 Replies, 412 Views
Sony: VR Is Such A Major...
Last post by Anenome
Today 08:39 PM
12 Replies, 1,040 Views
Galactic Civilizations...
Last post by Emabulator
Today 07:08 PM
3 Replies, 1,521 Views
Study Shows Men...
Last post by Agnostic Pope
Today 05:29 PM
45 Replies, 2,846 Views
» Promotion


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-25-2012, 03:35 PM   #1
randir14
Subscriber
 
randir14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,462
What Game Writers and Designers Think of Bioware Changing the Mass Effect 3 Ending


PC Gamer has asked several video game writers and designers what they think of Bioware changing the Mass Effect 3 ending.

Quote:
Chris Avellone

Avellone is Obsidian’s Creative Director, Chief Creative Officer and a co-owner at the studio. His game credits include Fallout 2, Icewind Dale II, Star Wars: KOTOR II, Neverwinter Nights 2, Alpha Protocol, Fallout: New Vegas, and F:NV’s DLC.

“Games should take advantage of feedback and using it for DLC changes and sequel changes. I feel BioWare does this from game to game already, and it’s the reason that some companions have achieved the prominence and romance options in the games that they do because the players strongly responded to those characters—and I’ll be blunt, we as narrative designers have no idea how a character’s going to be received, and “breakout” characters we envision may end up not being that at all once the game is released into the wild.

Most importantly, game development is an iterative process. Our goal is to entertain our players. No one knows more about what they consider “fun” than the player themselves. While you can’t please everyone, there are iterations that make sense to do in DLC content and sequels. As a case study, the DLC process from Fallout: New Vegas allowed us to collate all the weapon feedback from FNV and adjust it, and it also allowed us to take a long look at what gameplay elements and mods people were making for New Vegas and incorporate that into the narrative and quest lines. The best example is we noticed that people were making a LOT of homebase mods. So, we designed a good chunk of Old World Blues to specifically revolve on you making a new homebase in New Vegas with all the improvements people were pointing out. Even better, we were able to make it part of the story and the characters. Everybody wins, and people seemed to really enjoy it based on the fan (and press) response—but the catch is, we never would have thought to do that without analyzing the fan response and taking that into account.”
You can read the rest of the article here.
randir14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2012, 04:29 PM   #2
Anenome
Autarchist
 
Anenome's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Recursion City
Posts: 41,843
Blog Entries: 59
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by VenomUSMC View Post
I wonder if there would be enough digital storage space in the world if someone tried to digitize your ego -- I'm guessing no.
Anenome is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2012, 04:33 PM   #3
LoTECH
Evil Dead
 
LoTECH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Outside your bedroom window...
Posts: 2,195
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anenome View Post
Beat me to it
__________________
LIVE/PSN:LoTECH
A hit with the ladies since the 1980's.
LoTECH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2012, 04:46 PM   #4
Agnostic Pope
Evil Dead
 
Agnostic Pope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 17,113
Blog Entries: 23
Meh I'm over the Mass Effect universe. Good luck with Bioware "loyal"fans.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzsfrk View Post
Another golden AP quote. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal Jesus View Post
You sir, are my fucking hero!
Agnostic Pope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2012, 05:08 PM   #5
BeachGaara
Evil Dead
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,653
Not played it yet.

Will this just delete the "bad" ending for me?
BeachGaara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2012, 05:10 PM   #6
OmegaVader
Evil Dead
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 721
I'm with Chuck Jordan on this one. We bemoan developers for dumbing down games, and then ask them alter significant bits of narrative to the whims of the customer? I suppose Shakespeare should've witnessed the tears of his audience after Rome and Juliet die, and alter the ending so that they live happily ever after. Sure, that would've made for a great play.

Well, it's sad we don't recall this happening before -- the Prince of Persia reboot in 2008 had an ending that was as dramatic a departure from gaming cliché as it was just downright poetic. It was romantic. It had depth. But the fans bitched and moaned, and so, they added an Epilogue via DLC, and the poetry of the ending was lost, and we're left with a mediocre plot. Ubisoft was punished for doing something daring, and it's because gamers are goddamn morons. There's a lot flawed with the ME3 ending, but I have no sympathy for people who decry it as sad or unjust. Bioware can feel free to add DLC that shows what happens as a result of the ending, but do not alter the ending itself: That would be damning. Video games are art, not products. They're creative expressions, not pandering. I hope Bioware stands strong, or this will be a grave precedent indeed.
OmegaVader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2012, 05:15 PM   #7
kwolf
Evil Dead
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaVader View Post
I'm with Chuck Jordan on this one. We bemoan developers for dumbing down games, and then ask them alter significant bits of narrative to the whims of the customer? I suppose Shakespeare should've witnessed the tears of his audience after Rome and Juliet die, and alter the ending so that they live happily ever after. Sure, that would've made for a great play.
This is not an apt analogy. It's more like a situation where Shakespeare's publisher was threatening to drop him if he didn't finish the play immediately and so Act 3 was simply "They all die."
__________________
^$^
live: kw0lf
kwolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2012, 05:46 PM   #8
Jotoco
Evil Dead
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rio de Janeiro, RJ - Brazil
Posts: 1,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaVader View Post
I'm with Chuck Jordan on this one. We bemoan developers for dumbing down games, and then ask them alter significant bits of narrative to the whims of the customer? I suppose Shakespeare should've witnessed the tears of his audience after Rome and Juliet die, and alter the ending so that they live happily ever after. Sure, that would've made for a great play.

Well, it's sad we don't recall this happening before -- the Prince of Persia reboot in 2008 had an ending that was as dramatic a departure from gaming cliché as it was just downright poetic. It was romantic. It had depth. But the fans bitched and moaned, and so, they added an Epilogue via DLC, and the poetry of the ending was lost, and we're left with a mediocre plot. Ubisoft was punished for doing something daring, and it's because gamers are goddamn morons. There's a lot flawed with the ME3 ending, but I have no sympathy for people who decry it as sad or unjust. Bioware can feel free to add DLC that shows what happens as a result of the ending, but do not alter the ending itself: That would be damning. Video games are art, not products. They're creative expressions, not pandering. I hope Bioware stands strong, or this will be a grave precedent indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwolf View Post
This is not an apt analogy. It's more like a situation where Shakespeare's publisher was threatening to drop him if he didn't finish the play immediately and so Act 3 was simply "They all die."

Kwolf expressed it well, but I will go further.

I has nothing to do with being a happy or sad ending. For all I care the reapers could have overrun everybody and killed all life forms.

What makes us angry is that:

1 - They broke multiple promises of an ending you could influence in any way shape or form.

2 - They broke their multiple promises for closure.

3 - They added a invisible, never seen before, all-mighty, omnipresence force RIGHT AT THE END. It is as if if there never was any Sheppard to being with it wouldn't have mattered at all. If you never did what you did it didn't matter at all.



I understand that they can add closure at least, as DLC. But that is the cheapest, most greedy thing to ever grace this industry. Seriously. Never, EVER, I saw something as blatantly greedy as this.

The fact that you can't influence the ending, and you couldn't have hoped to know what was truly happening until right before the ending, that I don't know if they can fix. I know I will not buy this game, nor any DLC for it. Ever. If I have to pirate it, so be it, this is the only time since I first had a job and my own money that I want to do this. If only to spite the developers.


They could, in my opinion, add DLC (for free) that added opportunity for you to uncover more about what was truly happening and find a way to change the ending. We don't need a happy ending, we need the option to choose what to do. If we know for a fact that we can't possibly do anything, we could choose the sacrifice earth and never make a stand, we could choose to try a different approach, there are many things possible.





And on top of all that, you can not compare an INTERACTIVE medium with a medium that is not. You can't expect to influence the ending of Romeo and Juliet, because you do not take part on it. On Mass Effect you're actually a character inside this play. Expecting you to not influence the ending it unfair and wrong.
__________________
"If PC is a dead platform I must be a necrophiliac"
Jotoco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2012, 05:51 PM   #9
Agnostic Pope
Evil Dead
 
Agnostic Pope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 17,113
Blog Entries: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jotoco View Post
And on top of all that, you can not compare an INTERACTIVE medium with a medium that is not. You can't expect to influence the ending of Romeo and Juliet, because you do not take part on it. On Mass Effect you're actually a character inside this play. Expecting you to not influence the ending it unfair and wrong.
I don't expect Bioware defenders to see our point of view it is best to just move on.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzsfrk View Post
Another golden AP quote. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal Jesus View Post
You sir, are my fucking hero!
Agnostic Pope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2012, 06:21 PM   #10
Jotoco
Evil Dead
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rio de Janeiro, RJ - Brazil
Posts: 1,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic Pope View Post
I don't expect Bioware defenders to see our point of view it is best to just move on.
I tried to make that clear on the part that I would not buy this game, but I will add on to it.

I solemnly vow to now, ever buy another BioWare game, even BGIII if it ever graces this existence.

And I will not buy any EA games unless they radically change the way they do business.
__________________
"If PC is a dead platform I must be a necrophiliac"
Jotoco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2012, 08:31 PM   #11
Metal Khaos
Evil Dead
 
Metal Khaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 920
Blog Entries: 1
I would totally want the Wrex cake ending.
Metal Khaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2012, 08:41 PM   #12
sai tyrus
Evil Dead
 
sai tyrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: GA
Posts: 5,056
Blog Entries: 81
From what I've seen it seems like they want to have other endings and such as premium DLC. My biggest gripe isn't even the lack of the happy ending. It's the blatant disregard for various plot devices, as I posted in the other thread...

__________________
My blog: sai tyrus
Steam: sai tyrus

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve!" - Bilbo Baggins
sai tyrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2012, 09:11 PM   #13
Anenome
Autarchist
 
Anenome's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Recursion City
Posts: 41,843
Blog Entries: 59
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by VenomUSMC View Post
I wonder if there would be enough digital storage space in the world if someone tried to digitize your ego -- I'm guessing no.
Anenome is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2012, 11:53 PM   #14
Jotoco
Evil Dead
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rio de Janeiro, RJ - Brazil
Posts: 1,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by sai tyrus View Post
From what I've seen it seems like they want to have other endings and such as premium DLC. My biggest gripe isn't even the lack of the happy ending. It's the blatant disregard for various plot devices, as I posted in the other thread...

After watching the arguments for The Indoctrination Theory, I have to say. I may forgive BioWare if it is indeed true. And if this DLC is free.
__________________
"If PC is a dead platform I must be a necrophiliac"
Jotoco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 12:38 AM   #15
Mav
Moderator & Nerd For Life
 
Mav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,542
Blog Entries: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by sai tyrus View Post
From what I've seen it seems like they want to have other endings and such as premium DLC. My biggest gripe isn't even the lack of the happy ending. It's the blatant disregard for various plot devices, as I posted in the other thread...

I can't say I've ever played any of the three Mass Effect games, but as a die hard Trekkie, DAMN those are some gaping plot holes. There's always going to be some continuity issues in a big franchise, usually minor things but some of those are pretty glaring.
__________________
EvAv iOS Game Reviews - My regular iOS game reviews
RedShirtArmy.com - Various Gaming Podcasts
Xfire mavgeek
Raptr mavgeek
Twitter @Maverickroll
Mav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 03:09 AM   #16
Metal Khaos
Evil Dead
 
Metal Khaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 920
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jotoco View Post
After watching the arguments for The Indoctrination Theory, I have to say. I may forgive BioWare if it is indeed true. And if this DLC is free.
I was thinking almost the same thing. I would have forgive them. I'd forgive them for the more interesting plot at the end, but I wouldn't if they plan on releasing the real ending via DLC (even for free). That would still exclude anyone who isn't connected online or wants to buy another version of the game down the road to have it included.

Granted of course I don't have such issue, but plenty others may.
Metal Khaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 03:43 AM   #17
Gheritt
Reaper
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Killie, Scotland
Posts: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jotoco View Post
1 - They broke multiple promises of an ending you could influence in any way shape or form.

2 - They broke their multiple promises for closure.
It seems alot of the rage about the ending seems to come from people thinking the developers promised them something.
Gheritt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 04:42 AM   #18
Metal Khaos
Evil Dead
 
Metal Khaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 920
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheritt View Post
It seems alot of the rage about the ending seems to come from people thinking the developers promised them something.
Well from a business sense, they have every right to be angry. They were saying how you would have all these wildly different endings, and it wouldn't be some A, B or C thing.

Obviously it was an a-b-c thing and there weren't wildly different endings (having different color effects, though still same effects, is hardly different at all). If they didn't say any of this then whatever, but they did. Now they shipped a product which ending in no way like they said it would, which people then expected.
Metal Khaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 08:02 AM   #19
MrButtons
Reaper
 
MrButtons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 177
Blog Entries: 6
I'm Commander Shepard, and this "10 Reasons why we hate the ending" is my favorite video on the Citadel.
__________________
Your friendly Canadian gamer
http://www.youtube.com/user/SuperMrButtons?feature=mhee
MrButtons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 08:29 AM   #20
SaintBlitzkrieg
On Hiatus For Awhile
 
SaintBlitzkrieg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: WI
Posts: 5,768
The video nailed everything. Everything. All my problems were addressed except for a few.

I honestly believe that Bioware was crushed by Mass Effect and its weight to the people much like the first 3 Star Wars movies didn't live up to the last three. I have my opinions on that, but most agree, the ORIGINAL trilogy was better.

My other beef is this, where are the scenes from the commercial? That pre release commercial that aired with the littler girl, where is that? When did that take place? That video was WAY better than parts of this game. I wanted that, and you gave me nothing close to that. Instead you forced feed me a 3 decision wheel and really fucked your future projects.

That alone is just sad.
__________________
Learned that the EvAv community... hates EVERYTHING!
SaintBlitzkrieg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bioware, mass effect 3, pc gamer

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:57 PM.