Maybe it's just me - but I define Sci-Fi as fiction that deals with the questions that arise from steadily advancing science and technology. If space battles are involved, that's fine. But they're hardly a requirement. Now, it might not feel like Galactica without space battles, but humans grappling with the rise of sentient machines is, very much sci-fi to me.
I find this eminently acceptable. My problem is that everything I've seen and heard indicates more "corporate intrigue and sexual politics", and less existential pondering that would lend the idea a credible sci-fi feeling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Ingersol
By your grumpy definition, something as clearly sci-fi as The Terminator isn't sci fi. The only thing 'sci fi' about it is the conceit that this fairly normal-looking guy is a cyborg from the future; so it's all on-the-cheap contemporary set dressing except for some fx lightning in the beginning and a few minutes of endoskeletal robot at the end.
Never mind the meat of the story or the implications there-in? If there's no space battles or laser guns, it can't be sci-fi?
I've pored over this statement for a half hour and I still can't get my head around how you come to this conclusion. I would call Terminator scifi without a moment's consideration. Time Travel. Apocalyptic future. Killer Cyborgs. Man vs AI (yes, man vs Cylon is this very thing, but what I'm saying is in Caprica, I don't think we're actually going to GET enough of that to really matter) Those concepts scream sci-fi to me. That the Terminator movies have dressed the story up in good looks is all bonus, but I don't think pretty visuals are the only thing that makes something sci-fi.
What I'm getting out of all the Caprica Hype so far: Two Families, one a big tech business dynasty, the other a lawyer family. They're going to go head to head in the debate of how far the tech family should push their new product (the product, the Cylon AI itself, seems to be a marginal consideration in their idea at best). The only drums they're beating with any consistency is the corporate and sex stuff. This seems more dramatic-thriller to me. The futuristic setting is incidental, and simply not enough to make me edge that marker into scifi territory.
Now all that said, I think the crowd shouting me down needs to remember: These are my thoughts based SOLELY on the hype/conversations/hints sci-fi, Moore, Eicke, etc have pushed out. Maybe they're saving the stuff that would convince me this is real sci-fi for later. Like I said, it's going to get an entirely fair shake from me and if they bust out with actual sci-fi goodness when the show broadcasts, I'll be perfectly happy. Just because I'm giving voice to the fact the evidence available so far isn't all that encouraging doesn't mean I'm passing final judgement here, so keep your shirts on.
I find this eminently acceptable. My problem is that everything I've seen and heard indicates more "corporate intrigue and sexual politics", and less existential pondering that would lend the idea a credible sci-fi feeling.
I think what you fail to realize about the BSG universe (keep in mind, Caprica is only 50 years removed from the start of the new series) is that interstellar space-travel has been a reality for the past 2,000 years.
This just may be due to your unfamiliarity with BSG, so I can understand how only catching a few episodes of the RDM show on Sci-Fi may make it seem like the human fleet has barely mastered the science of space-flight. The Battlestar Galactica, in fact, is an OLD vessel, the only one to survive the Cylon onslaught of Caprica (aside from the Pegasus) due to it not having any advanced electronics that are susceptible to Cylon infiltration. It's got an old-fashioned feel because that's what the show was supposed to have going for it-- increasing the hopelessness and desperation of the surviving humans against their Cylon enemies.
2,000 years ago, 12 of an untold number of Colonies (of which Caprica was one) were all situated on a planet called Kobol. This was an Earth-like planet, and when their sun was set to supernova or something, these 12 Colonies leave to search for a new home. The Caprica tribe settled on Planet Caprica, and at this point in their history they and the other Colonies employed advanced technology far greater than anything found here on Earth.
This in itself qualifies it as a 'sci-fi' series, especially so considering this is a tale about 1) aliens on a different planet (Capricans, from the original planet of Kobol now on planet Caprica; not to mention the other Colonies on their own respective planets), 2) highly-advanced interstellar space travel (the Battlestars, and the 'jump' technology that allows for traversing long distances/neighboring Colonial Planets), 3) it's a prequel of an established sci-fi series (BSG) which makes it a sci-fi series by default-- especially considering that there's only a 50-year difference in chronology. This series is set smack dab in the middle of the First Cylon War by all accounts, so it'll definitely be dealing with Man vs. Machine themes eventually.
This is a good reference for the often-confusing background info on the world of the 12 Colonies-- I'm hoping Caprica does more to shed light on the other Colonies that never get shown (like Aerilon, homeworld of Gaius Baltar and Colonel Tigh... at least that's what Tigh claims...)
I think what you fail to realize about the BSG universe (keep in mind, Caprica is only 50 years removed from the start of the new series) is that interstellar space-travel has been a reality for the past 2,000 years.
This just may be due to your unfamiliarity with BSG...
TeeCakes, I thank you. I have not laughed to the point of fearing my lungs would implode at such an ignorantly holier-than-thou condescending reply in a LONG god damned time. BRAVO, young man. Bravo.
TeeCakes, I thank you. I have not laughed to the point of fearing my lungs would implode at such an ignorantly holier-than-thou condescending reply in a LONG god damned time. BRAVO, young man. Bravo.
Hey, Steve_Erhardt, be careful. He has a long history with the pro-wrestling guys, so he is going to know more than you or me about ... well, apparently everything. Me, I enjoy being edjumacated by someone with his expertise. Exercise through laughter, you know. It's good for what ale's you, and I like ale's in all their variety.
This show will be another attempt to be more mainstream and less of a focus on the science part and more on the fiction part. Sci Fi lately along with G4 are trying to be Spike TV clones. I can't stand that. Spike TV sucks.
I am still pissed at SciFi for what they did to the SG universe. I don't have much hope for them to do better in the future. Also, the milking of BSG alla HBO and the Sopranos is truly annoying. Just show the episodes.
Even given all this, the show could still be ok except for the fact that all prequels suck.
ST: Enterprise?
The Star Wars Movies?
All heaps of suck. Stop doing prequels and drive new stories. Prequels by nature don't hold suspense because we know the future. They are ok as one off episodes, but even that can be abused. (Heroes - I am looking at you.)
Hey, Steve_Erhardt, be careful. He has a long history with the pro-wrestling guys, so he is going to know more than you or me about ... well, apparently everything. Me, I enjoy being edjumacated by someone with his expertise. Exercise through laughter, you know. It's good for what ale's you, and I like ale's in all their variety.
Hey now, I didn't tell Sci-Fi to start airing ECW-- you'd best be down wit' the Wolfpac lest you wanna end up in a bodybag... 4 liiife.
Steve, careful now, your ignorance is showing. If you took my response to be self-righteously condescending, it must've been because you clearly didn't know everything you thought you did. I wasn't trying to attack you, simply trying to show you how Caprica will CERTAINLY be a Sci-Fi show.
ECW-- well, the jury's still out on that classification!
1. ECW gets the best ratings Sci-Fi has ever known. It's really that simple-- and in the beginning ECW shows had a somewhat valid claim for being on the network, what with wrestling midgets, worm-eating voodoo men, and the occasional vampire gimmick at live shows. Now-- it's basically a glorified, televised house show.
2. That show was past it's prime, IMHO. The second they added the Farscape duo to the cast was when it jumped the shark for me, even though I enjoyed seeing them on TV again, it was high time to euthanize it (much like Smallville).
3. I'm with you on this one, Atlantis had a lot more to offer for future eps. Perhaps they have made a few sacrifices at the expense of their nerd core viewers to attract a more broad audience, yet still the idea that Caprica or any other show on Sci-Fi isn't 'sci-fi' is as laughable as saying 'Robot Chicken' isn't a real 'cartoon' and thus doesn't belong on CN because it isn't drawn.
I'm also in total agreement about prequels-- I honestly can't think of one movie/tv series prequel that I ever liked off the top of my head.
Hey now, I didn't tell Sci-Fi to start airing ECW-- you'd best be down wit' the Wolfpac lest you wanna end up in a bodybag... 4 liiife.
Steve, careful now, your ignorance is showing. If you took my response to be self-righteously condescending, it must've been because you clearly didn't know everything you thought you did. I wasn't trying to attack you, simply trying to show you how Caprica will CERTAINLY be a Sci-Fi show.
ECW-- well, the jury's still out on that classification!
TC, I'm going to be 41 in a couple months. I was slavishly watching science fiction in general and BSG in particular, long before you were ever born. It was your own assuming ignorance ("I think what you fail to realize about the BSG universe (keep in mind, Caprica is only 50 years removed from the start of the new series) is that interstellar space-travel has been a reality for the past 2,000 years.
This just may be due to your unfamiliarity with BSG, so I can understand how only catching a few episodes of the RDM show...") that makes you self-righteously condescending sounding. Sorry, but your Galactica history lesson was unnecessary, at best.
However, as to your points, you still don't get it. Your #3 is hilariously exactly what I was saying Sci-Fi might be playing, and (if so) you've swallowed it hook, line, and sinker. Look everybody, it's in the Galactica universe! It's Scifi! Your three points are all part of that brown crayon I was talking about.
This interests, me, though: "This series is set smack dab in the middle of the First Cylon War by all accounts"
Link to these accounts? Seriously. Everything I've seen/read so far points to this being clearly before the first Cylon war. If you know of something solid that I've missed, I'll happily review it and revise my opinions accordingly (I've already said as much, and my history on this site proves I'm more than open to having my opinion swayed by convincing truth). If it really IS in the middle of the war with full blown Cylons out to slaughter humanity then I'll be much happier. Man vs. AI gets my vote. A high-brow, high-tech version of the Hatfields vs. McCoys in space, not so much.
Steve, if you'd spent as much time reading as you did being mock-offended by my 'history lesson', you might've noticed that I already did link you to the wiki that will give you all the info you need on the chronology of the First Cylon War. If I came off as condescending, I apologize, but you'll have to forgive me for being so bewildered as to why anybody as rational-sounding as you can still yet fail to see why Caprica clearly qualifies as 'sci-fi' other than he/she weren't familiar with the franchise.
The First Cylon War, as you know, ended 42 years before the events of the miniseries (or the start of the Second Cylon War). That first war lasted 12 years. The show Caprica is placed 50 years before BSG. It's rather simple math, when you boil it down. Whoops, maybe I'm being too arrogant here by not letting you figure out something so elementary for yourself, eh?
Everything I've seen/read so far points to this being clearly before the first Cylon war. If you know of something solid that I've missed, I'll happily review it and revise my opinions accordingly (I've already said as much, and my history on this site proves I'm more than open to having my opinion swayed by convincing truth). If it really IS in the middle of the war with full blown Cylons out to slaughter humanity then I'll be much happier. Man vs. AI gets my vote. A high-brow, high-tech version of the Hatfields vs. McCoys in space, not so much.
Actually, I see that you just took my quote too literally. '50 years' is obviously an approximation by the TV staff to place this just within the beginnings of the war. I have no doubt that eventually Caprica will take viewers throughout the entire 1st Cylon War, but IMO it will have the pilot episode before the war begins with the creation of Cylons in the first place. If this is what you meant, then you're right about the chronology-- and you are free to hold onto your trepidation about this being a real 'sci-fi' series.
Steve, if you'd spent as much time reading as you did being mock-offended by my 'history lesson', you might've noticed that I already did link you to the wiki that will give you all the info you need on the chronology of the First Cylon War.
No no, I saw that... unfortunately a wiki entry is a non-starter. Show me something Sci-Fi pushed out, or something Moore or Eicke signed off on. Those at least would be convincing to me. Also, it should go without saying, but considering our dance so far, I'll say it anyway, convincing or not, it's never considered canon until it's up on the screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeCakes
If I came off as condescending, I apologize, but you'll have to forgive me for being so bewildered as to why anybody as rational-sounding as you can still yet fail to see why Caprica clearly qualifies as 'sci-fi' other than he/she weren't familiar with the franchise.
There does seem to be a wholly inordinate amount of confusion on this aspect of my statements so far, and in hindsight it's probably my own fault. Let me rephrase to say "Caprica, from all the hype/whatnot I've seen so far, is so light on actual sci-fi that if might compare to Wargames." So I suppose if we bust out our checklist and put tick marks next to the placeholder sci-fi elements in Caprica, yes, we have no conclusion but to call it sci-fi. It's just not hard sci-fi. Or even medium sci-fi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeCakes
The First Cylon War, as you know, ended 42 years before the events of the miniseries (or the start of the Second Cylon War). That first war lasted 12 years. The show Caprica is placed 50 years before BSG. It's rather simple math, when you boil it down. Whoops, maybe I'm being too arrogant here by not letting you figure out something so elementary for yourself, eh?
And your point is... what... here? Whatever timeline you're using doesn't seem to jibe with all the hype we've seen/read on Caprica so far, which as far I can recall, places the story well before the first war. Like I said: non-starter. Gimme something that actually matters, not this wiki shit that can all be wiped out with a single episode broadcast.
Actually, I see that you just took my quote too literally. '50 years' is obviously an approximation by the TV staff to place this just within the beginnings of the war. I have no doubt that eventually Caprica will take viewers throughout the entire 1st Cylon War, but IMO it will have the pilot episode before the war begins with the creation of Cylons in the first place. If this is what you meant, then you're right about the chronology-- and you are free to hold onto your trepidation about this being a real 'sci-fi' series.
didn't see this until I'd already posted the above. Consider this considered. I'm too tired to write out another reply right now.
Also, it should go without saying, but considering our dance so far, I'll say it anyway, convincing or not, it's never considered canon until it's up on the screen.
You're actually spot on here. And this is always the cardinal rule to follow before prejudging a new series, instead of doing what I did and just going on the hype-machine. My bad.
It will remain to be seen whether Caprica is more concerned with Man vs. Machine, or how William Adama avoided being born as William Greystone. They could conceivably stretch the entire series out to juuuust before the First Cylon goes Maverick on the human race, and then drop yet another spin-off to cover THAT whole event after 5 years of Dawson's-Creek-Meets-Babylon-5.
