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-   -   The Dichotomy of Bioshock Infinite… (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189571)

sai tyrus 04-08-2013 07:19 PM

The Dichotomy of Bioshock Infinite…
 

Kotaku has a great write-up on the two mismatched parts that is Bioshock Infinite:

Quote:

BioShock Infinite is in many ways so, so close to being That Game, the one we can show to our non-gamer friends and say “See? Look at this! It is so awesome! Check out the story! It’s like LOST! How neat is this?” But it’s not That Game, because it’s so hilariously, egregiously violent that a large number of people will never give it a chance.
Hearing this makes me think gaming, and its audience have grown. Full article with my thoughts here.

Agnostic Pope 04-08-2013 08:13 PM

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/sho...26#post2200826

Convoluted story with two memorable characters. (two of them being the same.)

Agnostic Pope 04-08-2013 08:20 PM

Also. Violent my ass. Bio1 was way worse but death like in all media is still just cartoony when compared with actual death. If you think games are "gory" you are a sheltered individual. The article is shit because they claim that by showing the violence the "great" story and "plot" and the game as a whole were damaged by it. When without violence it would have made less sense. Bio games all have the recurring dystopian cities/ideals without violence and ...other things you can't show how utterly extreme these ideas can be taken. Secondly. The fact that you never actually fight songbird is a piss poor effort on the team.

HillTribe 04-08-2013 08:46 PM

The last thing I thought while playing this was "Man, this is way too violent". And you can completely ignore what Cliff Bleszinski says.

If anyone would not give this game a chance because of the violence, then most of the AAA games would be out of there league too.

Suicidal ShiZuru 04-08-2013 08:57 PM

Who would bother taking anything from kotaku seriously?

JazGalaxy 04-08-2013 09:04 PM

There's a fundamental question that really needs to be asked in the industry these days, and it's becoming more and more pressing every day.

WHY DO GAMERS FEEL THE NEED TO BE VALIDATED?

I mean, SERIOUSLY. Why are enthusiasts and the press constantly trying to show *somebody* a video game to get their approval?

"look, it's a game that had all the gameplay and context stripped out so it's a movie you play with a controller in your hand! See? It's just like what you like to do? Now do you accept me?!"

Aren't we past that?

MasterEvilAce 04-08-2013 09:09 PM

The only time I was like "WTF?" due to violence in Bioshock Infinite was when you get the rail riding thing. The game was so peaceful, and then suddenly... absurd brutality and blood. Really caught me off guard. Eventually I got used to it and it didn't matter. I do think the combat is the worst part of the game, just because it's a bit bland, and feels less fulfilling than combat in the previous games.

From the trailers, I expected so much more from the game. They talked about using tears to bring in objects depending on what you needed. I expected to have to make a choice, and having that choice actually matter. Instead, you literally bring in everything in the scene, multiple times. It really makes the whole process feel weak. Pretty much all of the objects are a form of gun turret, a hook, or cover. It ends up being rather pointless, to be honest.

Also, I expected the songbird to play a bigger role than it did. You see him very few times. I would have loved a constant sense of being chased, similar to what half-life did with the G-Man. Overall, I think the game has a lot of quirks... things that don't quite make sense, or don't feel fleshed out. They don't really detract too much from the game as a whole. I played the game for the story, and I am happy how it turned out. It's not the game I expected to play based on all the trailers / pre-release info... but damn is it a good game. It has a high level of polish, and an engaging story. Once they started exploring the tears, I was hooked. That's really when the story got good.

Bioshock isn't a perfect game... there are so many gripes I can peg it with. But when I compare it to all the other games that have come out... Bioshock leaves an impression... it's an experience that is really unique. I do think it deserves high scores and praise, even with whatever gripes people have about the game.

Vulture 04-08-2013 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazGalaxy (Post 2201417)

WHY DO GAMERS FEEL THE NEED TO BE VALIDATED?

So having realized that they are different and have different tastes, these same gamers then try to be accepted by the herd.

Clue- All men are not created equal in abilities or capabilities; the herd (society) just tries to keep the majority stable so that it has continuity.

brandonjclark 04-08-2013 10:35 PM

Just finished it. Wow..... AMAZING ENDING.

Best game I've played in a long time. Yes, the combat could have been better but it was what it was.

Elizabeth was everything.

Agent 22 04-08-2013 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazGalaxy (Post 2201417)
There's a fundamental question that really needs to be asked in the industry these days, and it's becoming more and more pressing every day.

WHY DO GAMERS FEEL THE NEED TO BE VALIDATED?

I mean, SERIOUSLY. Why are enthusiasts and the press constantly trying to show *somebody* a video game to get their approval?

"look, it's a game that had all the gameplay and context stripped out so it's a movie you play with a controller in your hand! See? It's just like what you like to do? Now do you accept me?!"

Aren't we past that?

It's ridiculous, honestly. These are the same people that push for the medium to be appreciated as art.

You can't have it both ways. If you want people to appreciate gaming as an art form, then suggesting creators should change that art to pander to some moral crusade for masses that don't, and more importantly, -won't ever- give two shits is about as far from the right approach as you can get.

DrizziTx 04-08-2013 11:37 PM

I for one agree, the game is way too violent, or rather way too many battles.

I'd love to have more narrative, more things to explore, rather than shoot things up all the time, waiting for the next bit of the great story to continue.

And the melee kills ... man that made me winch, and I play GOW and so on ... was just too much in your face ...

MasterKwan 04-09-2013 03:23 AM

Quote:

But it’s not That Game, because it’s so hilariously, egregiously violent that a large number of people will never give it a chance.
I wouldn't show it to anyone because it wasn't particularly fun. Has zero replay value and the story made absolutely no sense. It started out clever, the racism was sort of interesting as were the conservative memes but, it wasn't sustained. The ending is one big Deus Ex moment in which the player doesn't even participate. Nothing you do, other than killing a bunch of people, has any impact on how the game plays out.

The game seemed to peak pretty early, then turn into a grind. Not really a fan of playing a bad guy. You are a bad guy, from beginning to end. It's only at the end when you find out what an utter asshole you really are.

Orphiuchus 04-09-2013 06:17 AM

I personally loved the combat! All I did for the whole game was shoot people in the face with the hand cannon... but I really liked doing it!

BruceLeeroy 04-09-2013 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterKwan (Post 2201455)
I wouldn't show it to anyone because it wasn't particularly fun. Has zero replay value and the story made absolutely no sense. It started out clever, the racism was sort of interesting as were the conservative memes but, it wasn't sustained. The ending is one big Deus Ex moment in which the player doesn't even participate. Nothing you do, other than killing a bunch of people, has any impact on how the game plays out.

The game seemed to peak pretty early, then turn into a grind. Not really a fan of playing a bad guy. You are a bad guy, from beginning to end. It's only at the end when you find out what an utter asshole you really are.

I think you need to read some discussions on the ending and the story as a whole. The game is actually quite brilliant...you just don't know until the end. Not to mention, it ties the Bioshock games together beautifully (minor spoilers).

lockwoodx 04-09-2013 09:31 AM

Yes yes Kevin Levine clearly has been watching too much Dr. Who. Glad I didn't buy this for myself at release.

ElektroDragon 04-09-2013 09:41 AM

Oh right, because non-gamer friends have never seen over the top violence on TV or in movies. Give me a break.

Newsflash, your non-gamer idiot friends will never appreciate your hobby because they think they are better than you because they don't play video games. You could show them a game that is nothing but walking around the Louvre critiquing art and they'd still mock you behind your back.

There's gamers, then there's the rest of the population. Deal with it.

MasterKwan 04-09-2013 10:08 AM

Quote:

I think you need to read some discussions on the ending and the story as a whole. The game is actually quite brilliant...you just don't know until the end. Not to mention, it ties the Bioshock games together beautifully (minor spoilers).
It's faux-brilliant. Brilliant for dumb people. Or people who don't read much. It's basically every other episode of Star Trek Voyager where they pull out temporal anomalies to explain some plot twist. That doesn't make it fun or good. The original Bioshock was better and had a better plot but, that's not saying much. It was missing the essential element I need in my games which is "Fun". The whole parallel worlds thing was thrown out and then abandoned. It really didn't matter to the plot. Again, that plot device is as old as original Star Trek when Spock got a beard.

Tomb Raider was an altogether better game.

I admire "Infinite" for it's craft. It did what it set out to do. It looked good and even played reasonably well. I just didn't enjoy the journey.

unleashbass 04-09-2013 10:55 AM

Personally, I didn't think it was that great. I saw loads of reviews giving 9/10 or 10/10 even, and thought, got to get that. I've finished it now and its good but its not great! I think it stands out due to there's being a lot of mediocre game of late.

DeluxE 04-09-2013 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterKwan (Post 2201534)
It's faux-brilliant. Brilliant for dumb people. Or people who don't read much. It's basically every other episode of Star Trek Voyager where they pull out temporal anomalies to explain some plot twist. That doesn't make it fun or good. The original Bioshock was better and had a better plot but, that's not saying much. It was missing the essential element I need in my games which is "Fun". The whole parallel worlds thing was thrown out and then abandoned. It really didn't matter to the plot. Again, that plot device is as old as original Star Trek when Spock got a beard.

Tomb Raider was an altogether better game.

I admire "Infinite" for it's craft. It did what it set out to do. It looked good and even played reasonably well. I just didn't enjoy the journey.

It wasn't perfect, but this story is a lot better than >brilliant for dumb people".

Story isn't just PLOT; story is also the setting, characters, little details of the world... Bioshock Infinite does all of these things extremely well.

All that being said, I do feel like the developers missed some key opportunities with the tears and Vox Populi. I would have liked it better if the alternate realities felt more distinguishable and they seriously needed a few "boss-fight" type encounters with the major characters for closure.

But I still enjoyed the hell out of this game!

JazGalaxy 04-09-2013 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterKwan (Post 2201534)
It's faux-brilliant. Brilliant for dumb people. Or people who don't read much. It's basically every other episode of Star Trek Voyager where they pull out temporal anomalies to explain some plot twist. That doesn't make it fun or good. The original Bioshock was better and had a better plot but, that's not saying much. It was missing the essential element I need in my games which is "Fun". The whole parallel worlds thing was thrown out and then abandoned. It really didn't matter to the plot. Again, that plot device is as old as original Star Trek when Spock got a beard.

Tomb Raider was an altogether better game.

I admire "Infinite" for it's craft. It did what it set out to do. It looked good and even played reasonably well. I just didn't enjoy the journey.

I disagree.

I'm a sci fi fan. I've read sci fi in comic books, and prose books, seen it in movies and wherever else I could dig it up.

I'm also increadibly hard on sci fi fiction. Inception, for example, was garbage and I could write a giant essay as to why.

I thought Bioshock was extremely well constructed.

I think your criticisms are lacking in merit. (Spoilers) For example you mention that the parallel worlds concept is introduced and then entirely dropped. That's not acknowledging the fact that the entire game is (literally) built on that premise. Everything from the games music, to the atmosphere, to the enemies to the plot, to the ending is all soaked in the concept of parallel worlds.

Moreover, and it seems like you just haven't played the game, The title "Infinite" and the quote that displays when you start the game are all there to tell you from the beginning that the whole game is about parallel worlds. Even when you don't understand it yet.

I feel like people say "BIoshock wasn't well written" when they, in reality, just don't understand the plot. And that is easy to do, given the way the plot is dispensed to the player. But, hard to understand is not the same as bad, as many famous works of literature would attest.


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