Sony "Delaystation" - PS3 Skepticism on NPR

[motorhappy]

NPR's Marketplace had a segment on today's show covering the speculation on the possible delay and of the PS3. It's interesting that more mainstream news services are starting to report on console news. You can listen to the segment here. (http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2006/02/20/PM200602202.html)

...the Playstation is to Sony what the iPod is to Apple...if they collapse that market and lose it, it will be very difficult for the company.

[JazGalaxy]

intersestingly, the delay news will throw cold water on the ps3 hype. A delayed product has the aura of a product that has problems, whether that be the case or not. The PS3 juggernaut supersystem hype could be counteracted by bad press.

[Klade]

A ps3 delay may affect the American market, but if any of these analysts think a delay of any kind would throw a damper on the Japanese market then they need to get their head examined.

[Zipper114]

Does someone have a non-real player link to the audio? I want to hear this, but not enough to instal RealPlayer.

[aversion2k]

Does someone have a non-real player link to the audio? I want to hear this, but not enough to instal RealPlayer.

Download the Real Alternative media player pluggin, do a google search

[Royal Fool]

RealPlayer is downright evil.

..I still have it installed, though, just in the off chance that I ever need to view those rare .rm files.

[Draft]

Media Player Classic can play .rm files, as well as any other movie files.

[Pumped'Up]

that article is teh suck. makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[EternalGamer]

All this media coverage is bad news for Sony. According to the Gamespot article their stock dropped 3.5% and with Sony's presence being so big on the Toyko market, the entire market dropped 1.5% because of it. I'm sure over the next few days similar stories will be making the rounds on almost all news sources. I expect Sony to start doing damage control soon, which, if we are optimistic, might mean we will get some actual info. But in reality, it probably would just mean we would get another layer of bullshit topped with a few references to Gigaflops for good measure.

Dan

[rein]

Forgive me for not listening to the feed. Honestly I don't want to. But didn't Sony half-ass deny a report earlier about the delay? What I thought was strange about that denial is that they would not comment on the $900 cost speculation.

[eth3rton]

It is delayed....

It isn't delayed....

It is "gonna cost $900"...

It isn't "gonna cost $900"...

Please just release the damn thing.....

[Liquidize105]

Possible delay? It's like a hooker contemplating her virginity...of the ass... C'mon now.

Woops, the sony stocks just dipped.

[AversionFX]

File this [the quote shown in the post] one under "No Shit, Sherlock."

[Montgomery_Python]

Sony is a great company but they may be biting off a bit much these days.

[KamaItachi]

A ps3 delay may affect the American market, but if any of these analysts think a delay of any kind would throw a damper on the Japanese market then they need to get their head examined.

While I wouldn't doubt that the PS3 will be a raving success everywhere, never underestimate how finiky the Japanese consumer can be. With the success of the DS and Nintendo's new philosophy of bringing games to the masses, the rev could take a bigger slice of Sony'e pie than expected.

[aversion2k]

... another layer of bullshit topped with a few references to Gigaflops for good measure.
Dan

They should loose the gigaflops mumbo jumbo and adopt J Allards approach
"We flipped it, we spun it, we tricked it and we goosed it"

[JazGalaxy]

Possible delay? It's like a hooker contemplating her virginity...of the ass... C'mon now.

Woops, the sony stocks just dipped.

what? that doesn't even make sense.

[Verocity]

Problem here is, Sony's Playstation franchise is one of the few pieces of the company that is still going strong as far as revenue is concerned.

If the market sees weakness in a core part of a particular company, said company is going to take a beating in the market.

Sony doesn't have the billions MS has comming in to make up for poor game system performance...

[Dakar]

The saddest thing I've read all day is that there are gamers that listen to NPR.

[dolemite]

The saddest thing I've read all day is that there are gamers that listen to NPR.

Wait until you get a little older, dude.

[astronautsandwich]

what? that doesn't even make sense.


It doesn't have to make sense. Don't think about it, just FEEL it. ;)

[easi]

PLAYSTATION MORE LIKE DELAYSTATION LOLOLOLOo

[Zeal]

Sony's development approach with the PS3 was overly zealous. The hardware built into the system, namely the blu-ray drive and Cell processor, are unproven and premature technologies.

You're gonna see unstable hardware and software (much worse than 360's launch), massive unit shortages, and the highest asking rates (per unit) in the history of videogame consoles.

You can realistically accept that fact that you'll be paying thousands to secure a console. Not only that, but you can also expect the unit to explode shortly after turning it on.

Oh, and lets not forget the wonderful bundle deals vendors will be forced to accept. Get ready for a PS3+Mahjong Master XVII+Super Fighter 13, and Professional Horse Racer 3rd Mix, all for $3,500.

Get ready for the biggest flop ever.

EDIT: Oh, and if you people are concerned that NPR is full of shit, think again. CNN (on TV, nonetheless) just reported the exact same news.

[yerok]

The saddest thing I've read all day is that there are gamers that listen to NPR.

the saddest thing is to realize that other than NPR, there are no unbiased news sources any more. Follow the money from any major news source, and you'll find it tainted. I suppose I should check into NPR more and I might find my last bit of blissful ignorance ripped away, but for now I'll enjoy at least the thin veil of illusion I get when listening to the type of reporting they give.

So yeah; I generally hold that gamers are more intelligent (and certainly more clued in than the general mass), so I'd be suprised if SOME didn't listen to NPR.

Then again, with the intelligence displayed in some posts, I suppose I should revisit my assessment of the great mass of "gamers" that I seem to be lumping together.

Lastly, back on topic: don't underestimate Sony. Luck alone has not gotten them their position; they are smart, tough, determined, and one could argue - cornered. Which is when any beast is most dangerous.

[Megalith]

PRIMER CORD IS SET. ONE MORE PS3, TWO MORE MINUTES.

How do we, how do we set them off?

REMOTE CONTROL.

::boomerang controller::

[SMES]

In other news, Sony's stock dropped 3.60 % after the news...
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/02/20/sony-stock-drop-follows-price-delay-rumors/

Coincidence, or MS plot!!!!??? HAR MWA HA HM!

[Megalith]

http://img60.exs.cx/img60/3715/bailout.jpg

[Schnoogs]

the saddest thing is to realize that other than NPR, there are no unbiased news sources any more.


You're killing me here man!!! You write your own material??

NPR...unbiased....HAHAHAHAHA! ;)

[Dirty Harry]

Sony's development approach with the PS3 was overly zealous. The hardware built into the system, namely the blu-ray drive and Cell processor, are unproven and premature technologies.

You're gonna see unstable hardware and software (much worse than 360's launch), massive unit shortages, and the highest asking rates (per unit) in the history of videogame consoles.

You can realistically accept that fact that you'll be paying thousands to secure a console. Not only that, but you can also expect the unit to explode shortly after turning it on.

Oh, and lets not forget the wonderful bundle deals vendors will be forced to accept. Get ready for a PS3+Mahjong Master XVII+Super Fighter 13, and Professional Horse Racer 3rd Mix, all for $3,500.

Get ready for the biggest flop ever.

EDIT: Oh, and if you people are concerned that NPR is full of shit, think again. CNN (on TV, nonetheless) just reported the exact same news.
Do you even read what you say sometimes zeal?.

[Zeal]

No, but everyone else does.

By the way, I'm right. This shit is already playing out all around you, in case you've been living under a rock with 360's launch.

[Redline]

I still have to pay the 'Delaystation' thing. I thought the fanbois had exhausted their supply.

[alienchild]

So yeah; I generally hold that gamers are more intelligent (and certainly more clued in than the general mass), so I'd be suprised if SOME didn't listen to NPR.

ya we R more intelagant then the normal personlolol!1!!!1!one!1!!!one!!1eleven

anyways, as for the actual NPR report, what the hell was that about them stating that no console-maker is actually making money on selling the console, and that all revenue comes from games-licensees? Nintendo has been making money on their consoles since... um, forevarlolol!!!1!1!

[Megalith]

Gamers are intelligent?

The amount of people lining up for the 360 would say otherwise.

[XenonCJ]

the saddest thing is to realize that other than NPR, there are no unbiased news sources any more. Follow the money from any major news source, and you'll find it tainted. I suppose I should check into NPR more and I might find my last bit of blissful ignorance ripped away, but for now I'll enjoy at least the thin veil of illusion I get when listening to the type of reporting they give.

So yeah; I generally hold that gamers are more intelligent (and certainly more clued in than the general mass), so I'd be surprised if SOME didn't listen to NPR.

Then again, with the intelligence displayed in some posts, I suppose I should revisit my assessment of the great mass of "gamers" that I seem to be lumping together.

Lastly, back on topic: don't underestimate Sony. Luck alone has not gotten them their position; they are smart, tough, determined, and one could argue - cornered. Which is when any beast is most dangerous.Hahahahahaahhahaahahahahahahah (catches breath) ahahahahahahahahahahahahahah...... Yes NPR, unbiased, that's a good one.

Have you ever "followed the money" for so-called "public radio"? You'll quickly find like socialist\communist likes of George Soros and Micheal Moore. So drop the self-richeous attitude, and understand that just about every news source is tainted politically in one direction or another.

[Loganrapp]

Gamers are intelligent?

The amount of people lining up for the 360 would say otherwise.

Yes, because it's so unintelligent to want to buy a game console.

[Deathbane27]

http://img60.exs.cx/img60/3715/bailout.jpg

Best laugh I've had all week. :D (Well, yeah, it IS only Monday, but still...)

[Mason]

Studies (http://www.reclaimthemedia.org/stories.php?story=03/10/04/6718603) have shown that NPR listeners and newspaper readers are far more informed and have far fewer misperceptions than those who get their news from cable or network news.

When NPR interviews partisan sources (http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1180), they talk to Republicans 60% more often. Even back in 1993, when Dems held both Congress and the White House, Republicans got on the air 36% more often. Right-wing think tanks were also cited almost four times as often as leftist think tanks.

NPR is not an unbiased or perfect news source. However, it's better than most every other news broadcast, and its faults probably aren't what you think that they are.

And Xenon, one news source is better than another if it informs you properly about reality. You know...reality?

[Eon]

Zeal, your post makes total sense, but not in the way you think, I suspect.

Yeah we can expect poor software availability on PS3 launch.
Yeah we can expect there to be insufficient units to satisfy demand.
Yeah we can expect the first hardware generation to have flaws.


Now, how does this make the PS3 different from any other console launch?

Honestly, your bias is well known. Only if the PS3 does as poorly on its US and European launch as the 360 did on its Japanese launch will Sony have problems. Expecting a total flop? Well, there's one born every minute!

Sony MADE this market what it is, don't expect them to fuck it up any time soon.

[Achilles]

All this media coverage is bad news for Sony. According to the Gamespot article their stock dropped 3.5% and with Sony's presence being so big on the Toyko market, the entire market dropped 1.5% because of it. I'm sure over the next few days similar stories will be making the rounds on almost all news sources. I expect Sony to start doing damage control soon, which, if we are optimistic, might mean we will get some actual info. But in reality, it probably would just mean we would get another layer of bullshit topped with a few references to Gigaflops for good measure.

DanAvoid getting your financial analysis from game sites.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SNE&t=6m
As you can see by their 6 month chart Sony’s stock went up $15 in the last 6 months. It may be down a bit recently, but that's not unusual for after Christmas, and it was up so high it was bound to start declining. No rumors of delays or non-showing hardware could cause a company as big as Sony to lose 3.5%.

Also it started declining on the 14th, and is still declining. TGS was on the 17th and 18th.

[Liquidize105]

what? that doesn't even make sense.
Exactly, I really don't know why there's so much chatter everytime PS3 gets mentioned especially when there's like what... 2 game announced for it? MSG4 which Kojima didn't wanna work on and that lie of a "taget video" of Killzone 2, anything else?

Not only that, but there's a ton of bad PR surrounding the whole "graphic next-gen" when the core concepts haven't changed since the 90s. Having Lord British spell it out in big letters was depressing enough, the so-called industry leaders like id not only does not evolve the genre, they're content with only upping the pixels. For God's sake they got fanboys eating outta their hands, they have the leverage to update the formula and be financially successful at the sametime!

/rant

The question: Why doesn't innovative storytelling/design drive sales? Is it because you can't see it hence you can't properly market it? How do you solve this problem?

[Pantsmonkey]

Does anyone have any stats on how the bigger piece of the SONY PIE the PS3 IS?

I mean surely the PS2 still has to be a reasonable % of overal revanue?
The DVD players TVs Bravias etc etc etc Sound equipment (most of which
have a much higher unit price that a console? Sure R and D for the PS3
is much much more but they wanna put that Cell dealey in everything eventually
let Games Division test it out...

I cannot believe that negative press on an as unlisted release date for a
console effected the entire Tokyo stock market by %1.5 by itself. Rubbish.

They have a lot wrapped up in this division sure but at the end of the day
lots of the shit in your house has Sony written on it. They will surive.
There isnt fuck all in my house that says IPOD save for my roomates 512
shuffle theres plenty of Sony products though.

To compare the IPODs and APPLE to SONY and the PS3 is laughable. Its like Apples and...

Not to mention that pretty much everyone with a PS2 will just get one just because.
They don't really need a reason to get one they just upgradel. New customers buying
there first console on the other hand are definatly a key demo for console makers.
Gotta keep looking for new customers always someone else to buy your product!

[motorhappy]

You're killing me here man!!! You write your own material??

NPR...unbiased....HAHAHAHAHA! ;)

NPR programming is produced at a number of different stations all over the country, so bias changes from program to program. Marketplace is just a business and economics show, so political slants rarely seem endorsed on the show.

But here's an experiment you can try. Listen to the news on your Clear Channel stations for a day, listent to Air American for a day, then listen to NPR for a day. I think you'll see overall it's pretty moderate, and definately most fair, in the way it reports. They also focus a lot more on covering a higher number of stories of substance, and less of the 'Jackson Trial', 'Cheney Shooting', 'Bradifer'[sic] type of worthless news.

[fitbabits]

I love Marketplace and NPR in general.

[benig]

The PS3 : Bringing the Disc Read Error into the next-gen
This time, we don't even know how our drives fucking work!

[BabyJesus]

Thats odd, the only Sony products I own are the PSP,PS2(I'm a sucker for new toys), and my office stereo(little $60 boom box). I am smart enough to know that what Sony produces is cheaply made overpriced crap in a pretty box, that sometimes isn't even pretty. I bet if Sony gets hurt by the PS3, it will spell serious trouble for them.

[MosBen]

I know for a fact that my home NPR station got over 50% of the operating capital from the much maligned pledge drives that they hold twice yearly. As annoying as it is to have to listen to them beg for money for essentially a month out of the year, having a news source that isn't nearly as beholden to huge lobby interests and which doesn't really have commercial breaks more than makes up for it. There are a few shows that are openly biased, but there are none that hide their bias behind a veneer of impartiality. It's impossible to find, much less create, a completely impartial and unbiased news source, but NPR comes damn close.

[PantherModern]

Does anyone have any stats on how the bigger piece of the SONY PIE the PS3 IS?

I mean surely the PS2 still has to be a reasonable % of overal revanue?
The DVD players TVs Bravias etc etc etc Sound equipment (most of which
have a much higher unit price that a console? Sure R and D for the PS3
is much much more but they wanna put that Cell dealey in everything eventually
let Games Division test it out...

I cannot believe that negative press on an as unlisted release date for a
console effected the entire Tokyo stock market by %1.5 by itself. Rubbish.

They have a lot wrapped up in this division sure but at the end of the day
lots of the shit in your house has Sony written on it. They will surive.
There isnt fuck all in my house that says IPOD save for my roomates 512
shuffle theres plenty of Sony products though.

To compare the IPODs and APPLE to SONY and the PS3 is laughable. Its like Apples and...

Not to mention that pretty much everyone with a PS2 will just get one just because.
They don't really need a reason to get one they just upgradel. New customers buying
there first console on the other hand are definatly a key demo for console makers.
Gotta keep looking for new customers always someone else to buy your product!


The concept you missed that makes the Apple/Ipod Sony/Playstation connection is that the Playstation brand is a gateway to other Sony products. It is a way to get customers and it is the "key" product/brand that their other divisions depend on for saliability.

Example:

"I just bought this sweet Ipod. I love it, it is designed so well...I wonder what else these Apple people make?"

"I just bought this cool PS3. My TV is old, and my stereo blows. I wonder what else Sony has to offer?"

And as far as Sony being OK because you own some of their products, it would help to understand that at one time Sony was the world's leader in electronics. Now they have a sliver of the market at best. The Playstation division has been the only profitable thing Sony's had going for a long time, and they are "betting the farm" on the PS3. It is going to be the basis for a lot of their moves in the next few years. If it falters, then Sony is in trouble. They have already spent a billion dollars in R&D on the PS3, and selling the systems at a major loss with no hope of recouping money on the system itself for a few years is NOT something that investors want to hear. And if you think that Sony's stock price dropping can't effect the Japanese stock market, then you obviously don't know the stock market at all. If one major company drops badly it will effect everything, like a ripple throughout the entire market, especially when Sony is one of the major companies listed in the Nikkei index. Here is an article from the post concerning the slump the other day: link (http://www-tech.mit.edu/V112/N14/japan.14w.html).

Plus, I don't think that "everyone" with a PS2 will upgrade "just because." Do you realize that Sony has sold 20 million PS2s in the last year to two years? Do you think that those people are just gonna run out and drop more cash on a new system "just because?" No. They are casual gamers who waited for the price to drop and don't give a rat's ass about the latest and greatest.

Fact is, Sony needs to come out swinging. If they don't it will hurt them. Maybe not destroy them, but hurt them. At this point, they are Nintendo heading to market with the 64 after the PSX. They are the ones with everything to lose and everyone nipping at their heels.

[motorhappy]

At this point, they are Nintendo heading to market with the 64 after the PSX. They are the ones with everything to lose and everyone nipping at their heels.

This could be a really good thing. They haven't been forced to compete in the past generation and it has hurt games all around. Nintendo, now that it's fighting to regain market share is looking better than ever, so if Sony ends up in the same situation, I think it will benefit gamers Xbox fans and Sony fans alike.

[Zanzibar]

Plus, I don't think that "everyone" with a PS2 will upgrade "just because." Do you realize that Sony has sold 20 million PS2s in the last year to two years? Do you think that those people are just gonna run out and drop more cash on a new system "just because?" No. They are casual gamers who waited for the price to drop and don't give a rat's ass about the latest and greatest.

Nope. They are repeat buyers who are replacing their old broken PS2s. Wouldn't surprise me if the 'attach ratio' of games bought at the same time the system is bought is damned near zero for these years.

/ducks

[Thenetcase]

Actually if Sony axed the PS3 right now and never sold a single one, they'd save money (from their current position). They are going to lose at least $150 per console sold for at least 2-3 years after launch.

Sony does not need the Playstation franchise to survive. They sell SO MUCH MORE than the PS3 that it makes the PS3 insignificant to their bottom line (especially considering, as I said, they LOSE MONEY every time one sells).

-TNC-

[Thenetcase]

Nope. They are repeat buyers who are replacing their old broken PS2s. Wouldn't surprise me if the 'attach ratio' of games bought at the same time the system is bought is damned near zero for these years.

/ducks

I concur.

I think that there are going to be hard sales goals to meet with attach rates being so uber low.

-TNC-

[Kamalot]

Sony does not need the Playstation franchise to survive. They sell SO MUCH MORE than the PS3 that it makes the PS3 insignificant to their bottom line
Isn't the Playstation division the only division of Sony that is not hemorrhaging money?

Hemorage: loss of blood from damaged blood vessels. A hemorrhage may be internal or external, and usually involves a lot of bleeding in a short time.

[Thenetcase]

Isn't the Playstation division the only division of Sony that is not hemorrhaging money?

Hemorage: loss of blood from damaged blood vessels. A hemorrhage may be internal or external, and usually involves a lot of bleeding in a short time.

I wouldn't know for sure.. would have to actually pick up a financial report, which I am too lazy and uninterested to do. ;)

However, if Sony goes away, I'll be ok with it.
Maybe Acer will rise and take their place. ;)

-TNC-

[Sl1pstream]

PlAcerStation?

[XenonCJ]

Studies (http://www.reclaimthemedia.org/stories.php?story=03/10/04/6718603) have shown that NPR listeners and newspaper readers are far more informed and have far fewer misperceptions than those who get their news from cable or network news.

When NPR interviews partisan sources (http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1180), they talk to Republicans 60% more often. Even back in 1993, when Dems held both Congress and the White House, Republicans got on the air 36% more often. Right-wing think tanks were also cited almost four times as often as leftist think tanks.

NPR is not an unbiased or perfect news source. However, it's better than most every other news broadcast, and its faults probably aren't what you think that they are.

And Xenon, one news source is better than another if it informs you properly about reality. You know...reality?"Studies" you say... As you quote a fucking story from http://reclaimthemedia.org (http://reclaimthemedia.org/) How stupid do you think I am? Have you actually READ that site? Of course a fringe liberal website will tell you NPR is non-biased. Oh by the way your "reclaim the media" people http://www.reclaimthemedia.org/about.php are card carrying members of SNOW : http://www.snowcoalition.org/ . Wake the fuck up dude. Fo real.

[eth3rton]

Sony MADE this market what it is, don't expect them to fuck it up any time soon.


As did Nintendo before Sony and Atari before them so..... :rolleyes:

[EternalGamer]

"Studies" you say... As you quote a fucking story from http://reclaimthemedia.org (http://reclaimthemedia.org/) How stupid do you think I am? Have you actually READ that site? Of course a fringe liberal website will tell you NPR is non-biased. Oh by the way your "reclaim the media" people http://www.reclaimthemedia.org/about.php are card carrying members of SNOW : http://www.snowcoalition.org/ . Wake the fuck up dude. Fo real.

www.reclaimthemedia.org are just the CARRIERS of the information in this case, not the progenerators. If you want to criticize the studies, at least look at the studies themselves rather than the website Mason refers you to as a way of referencing them.

I'm not really sure where NPRs biases may lie but one thing I do know, is that they definitely are not consciously framing their news to represent a particular ideological perspective the way some other news organizations obviously do. As somone already mentioned, you are also a lot less likely to get ridiculious amonts of ratings chasing stories on NPR than on other networks and that is the primary reason I listen to them. I was listening to CNN radio on a friend's Satellite Radio and they actually interupted a speech Bush was giving to cover some random guy leading cops on a car chase in Los Angeles. Private news coverage in the U.S. is pitifully bad in terms of covering meaningful events and offering deep analysis. However if you want four hours of someone telling you the wind is blowing really hard somewhere or what color pajamas Michael Jackson wore to a trial last week, your options are almost limitless.

Dan

[XenonCJ]

www.reclaimthemedia.org (http://www.reclaimthemedia.org/) are just the CARRIERS of the information in this case, not the progenerators. If you want to criticize the studies, at least look at the studies themselves rather than the website Mason refers you to as a way of referencing them.Rush Limbaugh CARRIES a lot of information too. I bet he quotes different "studies" than reclaimthemedia. Wait, I guess it DOES MATTER MORON.



I'm not really sure where NPRs biases may lie but one thing I do know, is that they definitely are not consciously framing their news to represent a particular ideological perspective the way some other news organizations obviously do.
DanYou're "not sure" where thier biases lie.... (HINT: left) And you just "know" they are just trying thier best to be "fair and balanced"??? You sir are an idiot.

[EternalGamer]

Rush Limbaugh CARRIES a lot of information too. I bet he quotes different "studies" than reclaimthemedia. Wait, I guess it DOES MATTER MORON.


You're "not sure" where thier biases lie.... (HINT: left) And you just "know" they are just trying thier best to be "fair and balanced"??? You sir are an idiot.

Thanks, coming from you I'll just consider that a compliment and be done with it. You could definitely benefit from listening to NPR once in a while. It could teach you how to actually carry on a civilized and intelligent conversation. It is obvious that, at this point, you are more interested throwing around poorly defined generic labels and in having an insult competition than you are in developing an actual dialogue.

Dan

[Kamalot]

Thanks, coming from you I'll just consider that a compliment and be done with it. You could definitely benefit from listening to NPR once in a while. It could teach you how to actually carry on a civilized and intelligent conversation. It is obvious that, at this point, you are more interested throwing around poorly defined generic labels and in having an insult competition than you are in developing an actual dialogue.

Dan
Well, he may be a Republican; that seems to be the primary argument tactic they use. Insult and demean the competition, call them names and belittle them on things that have nothing to do with the subject. After all, if you are a poopy-head, how could your side of the argument hold any value? :rolleyes:

But seriously, he can spot an idiot when he sees one. Just check out this post...

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=206561#post206561

[XenonCJ]

Thanks, coming from you I'll just consider that a compliment and be done with it. You could definitely benefit from listening to NPR once in a while. It could teach you how to actually carry on a civilized and intelligent conversation. It is obvious that, at this point, you are more interested throwing around poorly defined generic labels and in having an insult competition than you are in developing an actual dialogue.

DanFYI - Just take note that now that you have lost the argument, you focus on the irrelevant items.

[XenonCJ]

Well, he may be a Republican; that seems to be the primary argument tactic they use. Insult and demean the competition, call them names and belittle them on things that have nothing to do with the subject. After all, if you are a poopy-head, how could your side of the argument hold any value? :rolleyes:Note how you demean me as an idiot below, how are you not a hypocrite?


But seriously, he can spot an idiot when he sees one. Just check out this post...
http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=206561#post206561 (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=206561#post206561)
Huh? Ok, maybe it's not as funny as I intended, but i was just using hyperbole to be funny. Maybe you should learn to spot a joke when u see one and get off your self-richeous high-horse.

[Kamalot]

Note how you demean me as an idiot below, how are you not a hypocrite?
Maybe I'm Republican?

[Eon]

Thanks for the last two pages guys. I love how you spent the time debating each others debating tactics rather than debating the subject.

I guess you're both like politicians. ;)

[Kamalot]

I'm often mistaken for a politician, but I just play one on TV. ;-)