Twilight Princess Delay Official

[bapenguin]

Reggie was on G4's Game Head this week and mentioned that Zelda: Twilight Princess will be released sometime fall of 2006. This is the first "official" confirmation the game was delayed from the originally planned April timeframe.

Thanks Gamecloud (http://www.gamecloud.com/omg.wtf?lolz=3578) for the tip.

[RandomViolence]

Suck... I want Zelda! :mad: :o

[mkelehan]

Good. Take your time, Nintendo.

[Ajguy]

Oh boy, it is the end times for sure. Can't say I'm not disappointed, but hopefully it means this will be a good game. It better be, because Nintendo needs a big GC game fast!

[Wraith]

GameCube game as Revolution launch title it is, then.

Minutia: This was SpikeTV, not G4.

[Everlost_MI]

Damn.

I guess my purple box can sit and collect dust for a few more months while my PC and 360 get the hell used out of them.

I've always enjoyed my Nintendo systems but when the games are few and far between it's hard to keep the excitement as it ends up turning to nostalgia

[Mozgus]

Sometimes I just don't know what Nintendo is smoking. Making sure a game turns out good is a fine idea, but launching it one full year after the console itself has died is just stupid. This, and the removal of the digital out port were probably the biggest mistakes Nintendo made with the Gamecube. Besides that, it was the best console of this generation.

[Borys]

Just can it for the Cube already.

They want to move Revolution hardware?

No better way than with the best Zelda game in the history.

No more of this Luigi's Mansion launch crap, EVER - you hear me Nintendo?

[Reanimated]

lol

Just lol

[Abash Alarmist]

lol

Just lol

lol, roflcopter, im a fag, lol. fucker.

[fitbabits]

I said some time ago and I'm now even more convinced that Twilight Princess will be released to conicinde and bundled with the Revolution in order to tout it's backwards compatablility.

[Draft]

No better way than with the best Zelda game in the history.played it have you?

At least when they do move it to the Rev they won't have to upgrade the graphics.

[Rafer]

I'm afraid a new Zelda game might underperform with all the attention around the next generation of consoles, sorta like how Final Fantasy 9 got buried under all the PS2 hype... I'll quote wikipedia: "Final Fantasy IX had the misfortune of coming out shortly after Sony's next-gen console, the PlayStation 2. While the PS2 could play old PlayStation games, people who bought the new system spent their money on new games to get the full power out of it, instead of older titles."

[TheEpicOfTyler]

I just started a Zelda craze about a month ago, planning to play and replay every Zelda game I could get my hands on in preperation for this. Now, the wait will be unbearable.

[EternalGamer]

I agree with you Fits. Although I think it will be more than a little confusing for the public--a game that can be played on the Gamecube being marketed as a Revolution title. It might be smarter just to market it as a Revolution game that also plays on the Cube. The best way to use it to strenthen Revolution sales would definitely be packing it in with the system. I don't actually see how it could work well otherwise. Trying to sell people a Revolution on the notion that it gives them the the option to wave the controller around in the new Zelda game seems like it would be pretty difficult. Regardless of how cool the control mechanism is, I doubt people would be willing to buy an entire system just to be able to control a game they could already play in a different manner.

Packing it in would be the smartest thing Nintendo could do to help give the Revolution a nice start, and the only way I can see the new Zelda helping to significantly boost Revolution sales. It does mean they have to eat the development costs of the game, but that's a far cry from the types of losses MS and Sony are going to posting for hardware sales and system R&D. It would also mean the Revolution would launch with a type of game that is unprecidented on system launches as of late--a high quality, fully polished, fully realized one.

On a tangential note, I've been thinking about that control mechanism Miyamoto talked about a few months ago (one remote for sword that you "flick" in the direction you want to move and the other for a shield) and I think it would be hell of a fun way to play a Zelda game. He didn't mention Zelda specifically when mentioning that control layout, but I'm pretty sure they will impliment something like that in the game to show off the controller's capabilities. The idea makes me very excited.

Dan

[EternalGamer]

I'm afraid a new Zelda game might underperform with all the attention around the next generation of consoles, sorta like how Final Fantasy 9 got buried under all the PS2 hype... I'll quote wikipedia: "Final Fantasy IX had the misfortune of coming out shortly after Sony's next-gen console, the PlayStation 2. While the PS2 could play old PlayStation games, people who bought the new system spent their money on new games to get the full power out of it, instead of older titles."

This is another reason I think the only sucessful way to market the new Zelda is to bundle it. You sure aren't going to sell many more Gamecubes at this point, and, as shallow as it is, when people buy a new system, they want the "new games" to show off it's capabilities. Unless it's tied directly to the Revolution in the minds of the public, I don't think it has much chance of fairing well.

Dan

[Pumped'Up]

if ZTP is bundled with Rev at lauch (to promote bc) I'll be first in line to buy it.

[Inglorion]

:( Glad I'm not personally anticipating this game.

[Zanzibar]

All right. Here's an idea.

The GC has always had texture difficulties because of the comparative lack onboard RAM. Any chance that the Z:TP disc could have "regular GC" textures when played on the GC, and an enhanced texture set for the RAM-heavy Rev?

I'm really curious if the Xbox/X360 games could have the same type of hybrid on the same disc. Would make upgrading from an Xbox to an X360 much easier.

[EternalGamer]

The other thing Nintendo should do is throw a couple of classic games in with the system to promote their download service. Super Mario Bros 1 and the original Legend of Zelda would be the best two picks and they would substantially wet people's appetite for more. Throw up some kiosk at local stores where people can play both the new Zelda and these classics, let them pull the controller "UP" in the original Super Mario Bros to jump or to slash their sword in Zelda as a new twist to old favorites. The NES and its games have deeply penetraited the psyches of the 20-40 year old generation. You show these people a brand new awesome looking Zelda game and tell them they can play the classics from when they were a kid on the same system, and you will sell millions.

Dan

[IndependentGMR]

I can't see them bundling it with the actual revolution console, because they would be screwing over GameCube owners. I enjoyed the GameCube, but it's basically dead, and the Twilight Princess was the last game I was waiting to play. It would make me angry if my system collected dust all year, waiting for Zelda, and then I find out that I can just get a copy bundled with the Revolution when I buy that. I say it will be released around the same time, or a little bit before the Revolution. I'm sure we'll find out the specifics at E3. In the meanwhile, I'll take the $50 I have down on it, and pre-order Oblivion for my 360.

[EternalGamer]

All right. Here's an idea.

The GC has always had texture difficulties because of the comparative lack onboard RAM. Any chance that the Z:TP disc could have "regular GC" textures when played on the GC, and an enhanced texture set for the RAM-heavy Rev?

I'm really curious if the Xbox/X360 games could have the same type of hybrid on the same disc. Would make upgrading from an Xbox to an X360 much easier.


That sounds like a cool idea, but overly complicated to implement in such a small amount of time. I would much rather see them spend that time on perfecting the control mechanism since that is what is going to sell the system. I think the new Zelda already looks good enough to hold up to the average consumer. Certainly someone who pays close attention to real time shadows, bump mapping, high res textures etc, will notice a significant difference, but average consumers really aren't going to noticed those types of nuances, at least not at first blush.

Dan

[Megalith]

They'll probably just package the Revolution with a Twilight Princess coupon and call it a day.

[EternalGamer]

I can't see them bundling it with the actual revolution console, because they would be screwing over GameCube owners. I enjoyed the GameCube, but it's basically dead, and the Twilight Princess was the last game I was waiting to play. It would make me angry if my system collected dust all year, waiting for Zelda, and then I find out that I can just get a copy bundled with the Revolution when I buy that. I say it will be released around the same time, or a little bit before the Revolution. I'm sure we'll find out the specifics at E3. In the meanwhile, I'll take the $50 I have down on it, and pre-order Oblivion for my 360.

I don't understand why this would make you upset if you could still buy it seperate as a Gamecube title. Your Gamecube is "collecting dust" all year either way.

[Borys]

played it have you?


All sign (movies, trailers, screenshots, features) point to yes...

...or so I hope.

[EternalGamer]

They'll probably just package the Revolution with a Twilight Princess coupon and hope that people buy it.

With a coupon? Or you mean an advertisement? What would be the point of a "free Zelda: TP coupon" when they could just package the game with the system? Perhaps maybe just a demo of the new Zelda would be another option, but I think that would be a bad move for the aformentioned reasons.

The idea of a Twilight Princess bundle seems pretty in line with Nintendo's marketing strategy as of late. Nintendo has become famous for their system bundles and they have had a large amount of success with them and they do far more system bundling then either Sony or Microsoft. For the Gamecube there was a Zelda Bundle, a Metriod Bundle, a Mario Kart Bundle, and a Mario Party 7 Bundle. The DS has only been out a year and has already had a Super Mario bundle, a Nintendogs bundle, and a Mario Kart Bundle, and they have an Animal Crossing Bundle coming soon.

Dan

[lpmiller]

2 versions. Gamecube version, and 'enchanced' revolution version.

[EternalGamer]

Here's another thing that would be awesome: since we already have backwards compatibility, Nintendo should come up with new control schemes for all their 1st party Gamecube games so that when you play them in the Revolution you get to use the motion controller. They already have a mock up control method they are demoing with Metriod Prime, they should just have a team dedicated to working on similar control schemes for other games.

It would be a great gift to Gamecube owners since they have an entire library of games to screw around with in a new way, it would also potentially reinvigorate the Gamecube market sales for some titles. I'd love to play Mario Tennis with this new controller or Pickmin with "pointer" controls. Imagine "flinging" turtle shells in Mario Kart when playing two players or actually twisting the controller to turn like a steering wheel.

Dan

[Reanimated]

lol, roflcopter, im a fag, lol. fucker.




Got bitter?

lol

[Megalith]

Anyone know if the Revolution's BC is going to be half-assed like the 360's.

I've just about given up on finding a Toycube with a digital out. If the Revolution runs all games in 480p flawlessly, then I'll just wait for that instead.

My copy of RE4 is still wrapped.

[EternalGamer]

Anyone know if the Revolution's BC is going to be half-assed like the 360's.

I've just about given up on finding a Toycube with a digital out. If the Revolution runs all games in 480p flawlessly, then I'll just wait for that instead.

My copy of RE4 is still wrapped.


Well it has already been announced to be compatible with most Gamecube peripherals, including Memory cards, so it is certainly better thought out on that end. As far as actual games, Nintendo's website states that "Revolution will play all of your favorite Nintendo GameCube game." This seems a lot less ambigious than Microsoft's "the top selling Xbox games." Since "favorites" are a lot more subjective, I would tend to believe they are implying it will play ANY Gamecube game, and I believe this is the general assumption most people have about it's backwards compatibility.

Another clue that it will be hardware based and not software base is the chip manufacturer. One of the reasons MS had so many problems is that they switched manufactures for the graphic chips. ATI, who worked on the Gamecube, is also doing the graphics chip for the Revolution. I seriously doubt Nintendo would even consider "partial" compatibility an option. The facts that ATI is involved in the Revolution development and that all previous attempts at backwards compatibility (Gameboy to Gameboy Color to Gameboy Advance to DS) have been hardware based would tend to indicate that the Revolution is going hardware compatibility, not software emulation.

As far as the resolution, Reggie did say the Revolution would be 480p compatible, which implied all the Gamecube games that run in 480p (which includes all or almost all of Nintendo's first party titles) would also run in 480p on the Revolution. I just hope it uses the same component cable as the Cube. Nintendo has used the same A/V inputs in the past, so it's a good possibility. I just got my composit cable for my cube a few weeks ago and I'd like to be able to just plug it into the Revolution when it comes out.

Dan

[Rirath]

Woohoo, ZTP was delayed several months! I /still/ can't play a game it seems like I've been waiting ages for and should have been done long ago! Vague ideas about next gen! You rock, Nintendo!

[EternalGamer]

Yeah, Nintendo's secrecy seems pretty outdated and annoying. But at least since they have always been this way it's nothing new. I'm confident Nintendo has things pretty well worked out by this point, they just aren't sharing. I'm not so sure about Sony, though. I'm a bit skeptical that their lack of information sharing isn't necessarily 100% strategic.

Dan

[Chris_D]

sorta like how Final Fantasy 9 got buried under all the PS2 hype... I'll quote wikipedia: "Final Fantasy IX had the misfortune of coming out shortly after Sony's next-gen console, the PlayStation 2. While the PS2 could play old PlayStation games, people who bought the new system spent their money on new games to get the full power out of it, instead of older titles."

Maybe it was just that FF9 sucked? My least fav FF anyway...

[Zanzibar]

Yeah, Nintendo's secrecy seems pretty outdated and annoying. But at least since they have always been this way it's nothing new. I'm confident Nintendo has things pretty well worked out by this point, they just aren't sharing. I'm not so sure about Sony, though. I'm a bit skeptical that their lack of information sharing isn't necessarily 100% strategic.

Dan

I agree. You ask developers working with Nintendo about particular information and they reply "We know, but we can't say." You ask Sony devs and they say "We have no fucking idea."

[earthworm48]

Yeah I was about to say that it should say "FFIX had the misfortune of being quite possibly the worst FF game ever made. It is rather shit".

[EternalGamer]

Actually FFIX was one of my favorite FF games. I liked it better than any other of the post FFVI titles. The ending was a little too "Hollywood romantic comedy cliche" but other than that it was a pretty good game. It was refeshing to see the series return to its fantasy roots rather than the sci-fi technobabble that has infiltrated the series since. Plus Vivi was one of the best characters in the entire franchise.

Dan

[Zeal]

Yeah, take your time, Nintendo. Releasing the game this late in the Gamecube's life cycle is worthless, anyway.

Well, considering the GCN is all but extinct.

[Wedge]

The worst part about this, imo, is that it means it will take absolutely ages before we get a dedicated revolution zelda.

[DragonRushX]

The game should come with a free game cube, and still cost $49.99. There is probably a warehouse some where full of cubes.

[EternalGamer]

The worst part about this, imo, is that it means it will take absolutely ages before we get a dedicated revolution zelda.


This is true, but it was probably the case anyway. However, some of the first mentioned titles being worked on for the Revolution included a new Mario and a new Zelda title, so who knows. If TP gets a sufficient controller makeover, we might as well consider it a Revolution title anyway. There is nothing about technological advancements that inherently makes a game "better," so I don't really feel like we would be missing much. The graphical limits we are working with today, even on the current gen, are pretty much sufficient for my aesthetic tastes, and I'm not just saying that to align myself with Nintendo's marketing pitch. I could play games that look like Wind Waker or Ico the rest of my life and be happy as long as they kept coming up with original gameplay and design ideas.

But I realize I may not be the norm in that. I like games with an "animation" aesthetic, and I don't necessarily desire games that look "realistic" in any way. Don't get me wrong, I will play and enjoy Gears of War and I think Kameo looks really nice, but do either look "better" than Wind Waker? Well, no, actually. They just looks different. I know which are "technically" more impressive, but that doesn't mean they are more visually appealing. In fact, if I were pushed to pick, I think I'd have to go with the "inferior" looking Wind Waker as more visually appealing simply because it evoked more stylistic personality and it successfully accentuated an immersion into that particular gameworld.

Dan

[Megalith]

TP was delayed because a large chunk of that team was probably transferred over to help Miyamoto and the rest of the nerds on Zelda for the Revolution.

Can't fool me.

[Achilles]

All right. Here's an idea.

The GC has always had texture difficulties because of the comparative lack onboard RAM. Any chance that the Z:TP disc could have "regular GC" textures when played on the GC, and an enhanced texture set for the RAM-heavy Rev?

I'm really curious if the Xbox/X360 games could have the same type of hybrid on the same disc. Would make upgrading from an Xbox to an X360 much easier.If their handheld hardware is any indication they will not let the developers test for what system their game is running on, or even what version of the system it's running on. It could also be that the Rev has as much RAM as the GC.

I doubt they'll ship Twilight Princess with the Revolution since it'll be a really big title most likely, and they'll want the money from the actual sales of that title. I do think they should make it a Rev exclusive though.

[alldat360]

it wasn.t g4, but spike tv :cool:

[t3g]

Besides that, it was the best console of this generation.Dream on fanboi

[Deadend]

The game should come with a free game cube, and still cost $49.99. There is probably a warehouse some where full of cubes.

They will still charge extra for the memory card.

[Mozgus]

Dream on fanboi
Adorable. Do you come in plush form?

[TrackZero]

Oh boy, it is the end times for sure. Can't say I'm not disappointed, but hopefully it means this will be a good game. It better be, because Nintendo needs a big GC game fast!

Yeah, they better hurry. Otherwise they won't make another clean $535 million (U.S.) after expenses like they did in Q4 2005. ;P

[bardockkun]

Wow it's delayed. Big suprise, never saw this coming. So what's the reason they're delaying this for now? Aren't the Japanese getting it in April too? Why does Nintendo not even try anymore?

[overdrivechao]

June 2 is whats been in our book for weeks.

Whatever, im playing it on the Rev. anyway.

[EvilBob46]

Yeah I was about to say that it should say "FFIX had the misfortune of being quite possibly the worst FF game ever made. It is rather shit".

FFIX the worst FF game? BWAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH....HAHAHA...ha.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

Did any one else notice that the url for this article is...

http://www.gamecloud.com/omg.wtf?lolz=3578

Containing omg, wtf, and lolz?

Odd.

[KamaItachi]

I agree. You ask developers working with Nintendo about particular information and they reply "We know, but we can't say." You ask Sony devs and they say "We have no fucking idea."


A buddy of mine who works over at Sega was saying a while back that the problem with Nintendo, and Sega, back in the daywhen they were still doing consoles, was that because they were both a hardware and software company, they had to play their cards much, much closer to their chest than Sony/MS and plan ahead much more in relation to software.

Since 1st party software was/is so important, they can't show everything they have and risk someone else nicking their idea or the hype bubble bursting too early.

[Spigot]

Let's see.. which tangent of this thread to reply to first.

I guess I'll start with the delay:

Grr! First Okami gets pushed back, now Zelda. What's next? FFXII delayed to 2010?

I can understand them wanting to have it be a big Rev title (especially concidering the usual weak launch titles of most systems these days) but concidering the game was supposedly almost finished LAST fall, this is a bit ridiculous. Silly marketing plans.

As long as I don't have to buy a Rev to play ZTP, I'll be happy. I do plan on getting a Rev but not until it has been out for a good year. This next generation will see me waiting for at least a year after each system launches so I can take advantage of the usual price drops and also see how the libraries on each system pan out.

OK. As for FFIX being the worst FF game, I heartily disagree. I think it was probably my favourite of the PS1 era games, if only due to the fact that it was one big batch of fanservice for people who had played the series from the first one and could appreciate all of the little nods to the history of the series. It didn't have near as emotional an ending as FFVIII and wasn't as wide-ranging in appeal as FFVII was, but I think it was truest to the Final Fantasy roots of any FF since VI.

That, and it was just a fun romp through a fantasy world. Minimal angst is refreshing in a JRPG these days.

Oh, and if you're looking for a game worth dusting off your Cube for, look no further than Chibi-Robo. It's fantastic and incredibly surreal. I'm going to think of it as Zelda with Link being played by a tiny robot who uses a toothbrush to scrub stains instead of swinging a sword to kill monsters. That should hold me for a while :)

[Mason]

Dan:

The hypothesizing about introducing Revolution-specific control schemes to old games is goofy beyond words. You remember the Power Glove? Remember how cool it seemed, until you tried to control a game with it and it turns out it was ridiculously hard, compared to the standard controller? Even if the Power Glove could've been used in entertaining ways, everyone almost immediately hated it because it made them feel unskilled.

Motion-based control schemes for old games would sabotage the perception of Revolution in exactly the same way (replay all your old games, only now you have trouble with the basics of motion!). No way Nintendo would make the same mistake twice.

[agentgray]

Did any one else notice that the url for this article is...

http://www.gamecloud.com/omg.wtf?lolz=3578

Containing omg, wtf, and lolz?

Odd.
That is hilarious.

Since the rev is backward compatable , I can see this staying as a Cube title, but I can also see it marketed as a Rev title...packaged both ways.

My suspicion is that it'll be pushed as a launch title and skyrocket sales.

[EternalGamer]

Dan:

The hypothesizing about introducing Revolution-specific control schemes to old games is goofy beyond words. You remember the Power Glove? Remember how cool it seemed, until you tried to control a game with it and it turns out it was ridiculously hard, compared to the standard controller? Even if the Power Glove could've been used in entertaining ways, everyone almost immediately hated it because it made them feel unskilled.

Motion-based control schemes for old games would sabotage the perception of Revolution in exactly the same way (replay all your old games, only now you have trouble with the basics of motion!). No way Nintendo would make the same mistake twice.

"Goofy beyond words"? A little strong don't you think? I understand the problems here, given that the input is not designed to be fluid. But the compairson to the Powerglove seems more than a little problematic. The first problems with the powerglove was that it was not sophisticated enough to be able to accurately replicate anything. It instead had you doing all sorts of arcane gestures that had nothing to do with the onscreen action. The Revolution controller seems alot more adaptable to various uses both in it's sophisticated motion tracking ability and its basic "stick like" shape which makes much easier to adapt to said motions.

Perhaps Nintendo would not be able to make it work well in all games, but I can think of a number which would benefit greatly. It has already been (apparently) shown to work well for FPS type games and I think using it to play "Pikmin" for example would improve the experience where the onscreen cursor would directly move based upon where you were pointing (it becomes like a RTS mouse control). And twisting the controller in Mario Kart to simulate turning could also work well. Anyone that has ever used one of Namco's neocon controllers for a significant amount of time, for example, could tell you how much it improved the experience of playing Ridge Racer. I am not suggesting a complete overhaul of the gamemechanics whereby people have to do the hokeypoke with their controllers just to make the character do an action they would normally just press "A" to accomplish. What's wrong with flicking your risk to replicate swining a tennis racket in Mario Tennis? That seems like it would add to the immersion not take away from it. I am only suggesting adaptation where it makes sense. Have you ever seen someone who doesn't play games on a regular basis try to use a controller? They intuitively move it around. They twist it to turn in racing games or pull up on it when they want to jump. This is the type of implementation I am suggesting. Minor adaptations of a few actions based upon what would be more intuitive or make the game feel more interactive.

Dan

[Bushido]

Just can it for the Cube already.

They want to move Revolution hardware?

No better way than with the best Zelda game in the history.

No more of this Luigi's Mansion launch crap, EVER - you hear me Nintendo?


Oh god please let nintendo spooks be reading this......

[outontheporch]

End of Days.

[CrysDark]

Color me disapointed.

I was really looking forward to this game.

I suppose the development went kinda like this:

It was suppose to ship last christmass. Miyamoto (mato?) went to the president and said, "If you just give me 6 more months I can make this game incredible."

The april launch approaches and the execs think, "Hey! We have this blockbuster in the pipe, why not hold off another 6 months, and bundle it with our new console, insuring and almost immediate install base in the millions!" (Wind Waker sold what, 10 million copies or something crazy like that?)

Prediction:

Nintendo takes second place and if the 360 doesn't get it's shit together, quite possibly the lead at least for a year or so??

The possibilites they are overwhelming. Leave it to Nintendo, when everyone counts them out, they can come out...they come up with something completley brilliant!

Now, I hope they come out with a nice pre-order bonus, although I don't see how they can top what they bundled with Wind Waker. There are gonna be lots of angry fans over this. (There were over 200 preorders for LoZ-TP at my local gamestop O_o)


Tried to fix my awful grammer

[EternalGamer]

CrysDark, you seem to be assuming this news post confirms the pack in of Twilight Princess with the Revolution. Though many of us think it's a good idea, it certainly is not a confirmed strategy. I'd say given their history of pack-ins as marketing strategies we have a good 50% chance that this will end up being the case, though.

Dan

[Dracula-X]

Kinda sad, but I've been resigned to the idea that I'd be playing this on the Rev anyways, I just would be a bit happier if ZTP had some improvements on the Rev side (as someone hinted at earlier, like improved textures, etc), or extras that would require the remote, err, I mean the newfangled controller :)

[Deathbane27]

Firstly...

Adorable. Do you come in plush form?

NICE! :D


Back on topic... The used Gamecube I'll be buying to play ZTP has just dropped in price from $60 to $35. :p

[Mason]

The Revolution controller seems alot more adaptable to various uses both in it's sophisticated motion tracking ability and its basic "stick like" shape which makes much easier to adapt to said motions.
Large motions won't have the fine control of a D-pad, and gestures won't have the speed or precision of button presses. And that's all it'd take to make it feel like another Power Glove. It won't happen.

I could see bundling it with plenty of small-scale games which demonstrate the strengths of the controller. In fact, I'd be surprised if they didn't do this. But slapping SMB on there and mapping it to the unconventional aspects of the controller would be both lazy and pointless.

[Morratut]

Oh my god. It's a shame. I'm glad i'm not anticipating this anymore i'd be gutted otherwise. I'll play this on the Revolution if and when I get one.

Nintendo need to have a system that has a regular release of titles for its next console. :rolleyes:

[MSUStud911]

Is anybody really surprised by this? I've had it preordered since February 2005 when EB was still saying it'd be out in late summer. After it was delayed until the end of 2005 I knew there was no way in hell it'd be out until at least summer 2006. A delay till the winter is just par for the course with this game.

[nemyhlovecraft]

The GC has always had texture difficulties because of the comparative lack onboard RAM. Any chance that the Z:TP disc could have "regular GC" textures when played on the GC, and an enhanced texture set for the RAM-heavy Rev?

Just for reference.

Gamecube:
-Main Memory - 24 MB MoSys 1T-SRAM
-A-Memory - 16MB
Total Memory: 40MB

PS2:
-Memory size - 32MB
-Embedded DRAM - 4MB
-Sound memory - 2MB
-IOP memory - 2MB
Total Memory: 40MB (Max 32MB to use for textures)

XBox:
-System memory - 64MB of RAM (unified memory architecture)
Total Memory: 64MB

Playstation 2 Strength:
-Enormous rendering pipeline - Ex. GTA3, Katamari Damacy

XBox Strength:
-Awesome use of GPU - Ex. Fable, Dead or Alive 3, Ninja Gaiden

Gamecube Strength:
-Great hardware based texture processing - Ex. RE4, Star Wars: Rebel Strike

PS2 actually has the worst texture processing of this generation. It can push about 6-12 Million in-game lighted, textured polygons which is the same as the Gamecube's polygon processing power (try saying that three times fast). The Gamecube, however, has hardware to do texture processing on the polys as they are drawn, while the PS2 would have to sacrifice memory and processing power to do the same. The best example of this is RE4. When compared, the PS2 version features slightly lower color count and lower resolution textures, and also does not have texture layering in certain places that the Gamecube version did have.
The XBox has no dedicated hardware texture processing, but it does have the highest power video card, the most memory, and the most advanced vertex/pixel shading engine. What it doesn't have in dedicated hardware, it makes up for in raw horsepower and customizable software.

These claims are based on the actual recorded specs of these systems.

You fail. Please do research.

[EternalGamer]

Large motions won't have the fine control of a D-pad, and gestures won't have the speed or precision of button presses. And that's all it'd take to make it feel like another Power Glove. It won't happen.

I could see bundling it with plenty of small-scale games which demonstrate the strengths of the controller. In fact, I'd be surprised if they didn't do this. But slapping SMB on there and mapping it to the unconventional aspects of the controller would be both lazy and pointless.

Well since neither of us have used it, it's really a pointless debate. I wasn't suggesting large motions, but I do think quick gestures could be acurate enough to replicate a given action. Having played games that use much older and unsophisticated motion sensor technology (Samba De Amigo, Warioware Twisted and Guitar Hero's tilt feature), I see no reason why singular gestures could not replicate button presses. It seems to work fine in Guitar Hero to turn on Star power. Why a more advanced technology would work acurately to activate "jump" or "swing racket" I have no idea. Personally, I wouldn't ever care if it were "less accurate." I am not suggesting it as a permanent replacement for traditional controls in these games, just a fun addition. In the same way it's "fun" to play multiplayer Bomberman DS by yelling into the microphone to lay bombs. Is it as acurate as pressing "A"? No. Is it more fun? By Alot.

Dan

[AniAko]

Oh well. That just means another layer of dust is going to collect on my Cube. Unless it's delayed again. Then it will be a direct to DS2 title ^_^

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I really don't see why so many people are ragging on this delay. Most of the detractors probably were not going to get the game anyway and are just haters. Most of the people who are looking forward to this title are probably going to buy a Revolution anyway.

I still think that completely updating the title for the Revolution would take a lot of time, but would ultimately be worth it. I know I'd buy a Rev ASAP if this title was out at launch. I'd even consider pre-ordering, something I would normally never do.

[fitbabits]

I really don't see why so many people are ragging on this delay. Most of the detractors probably were not going to get the game anyway and are just haters.
Heh! I was going to get the game AND hate it, regardless of whether I liked it or not. :)

[Zanzibar]

Just for reference.

Gamecube:
-Main Memory - 24 MB MoSys 1T-SRAM
-A-Memory - 16MB
Total Memory: 40MB

PS2:
-Memory size - 32MB
-Embedded DRAM - 4MB
-Sound memory - 2MB
-IOP memory - 2MB
Total Memory: 40MB (Max 32MB to use for textures)

These claims are based on the actual recorded specs of these systems.

You fail. Please do research.

My claims are based on actual work on the platforms. On every multiplatform game that I've worked on, we've had trouble fitting in the texture sets, and invariably had to trim down the textures to fit on the Gamecube at runtime. The problem is the pipeline between the Audio ram and the GPU - yes, you have the same amount of total RAM as the PS2, but because the A-ram pipeline is so slow, you can't use audio ram as texture memory, because the system can't access the texture memory fast enough to draw it per-frame. Therefore you can't have more than 24mb of textures at the ABSOLUTE maximum, and the game code has to run in that same memory, so the limit is more like 16mb.

So, I'm sorry, what were you saying? Something about research? How about getting a job in the industry so you know what you're talking about?

[AniAko]

My claims are based on actual work on the platforms. On every multiplatform game that I've worked on, we've had trouble fitting in the texture sets, and invariably had to trim down the textures to fit on the Gamecube at runtime. The problem is the pipeline between the Audio ram and the GPU - yes, you have the same amount of total RAM as the PS2, but because the A-ram pipeline is so slow, you can't use audio ram as texture memory, because the system can't access the texture memory fast enough to draw it per-frame. Therefore you can't have more than 24mb of textures at the ABSOLUTE maximum, and the game code has to run in that same memory, so the limit is more like 16mb.

So, I'm sorry, what were you saying? Something about research? How about getting a job in the industry so you know what you're talking about?

Presuming you're truthful with your claim about being a devloper. You are my coding hero. Slayer of non-coder statements. :D

[Spigot]

Presuming you're truthful with your claim about being a devloper. You are my coding hero. Slayer of non-coder statements. :D
Well, it does say DEVELOPER right under his name. He MUST be a dev!

:D

And Maggie, I think the reason people are cheesed about the delay is because it was due to come out last fall and at the last minute pushed back to April, where I believe Nintendo promised it would come out come hell or high water.

Obviously both must have come, hence the delay. I agree that it makes perfect sense on Nintendo's part to launch the new system with a playable (and new) Zelda title so they don't have the Luigi's Mansion syndrome occuring again. It's just annoying for people who have been waiting patiently. I usually don't mind if a game is pushed back, but it seems that all of the games I've been looking forward to lately have been bumped, hence my getting a little grumpy(er).

[Morratut]

My claims are based on actual work on the platforms. On every multiplatform game that I've worked on, we've had trouble fitting in the texture sets, and invariably had to trim down the textures to fit on the Gamecube at runtime. The problem is the pipeline between the Audio ram and the GPU - yes, you have the same amount of total RAM as the PS2, but because the A-ram pipeline is so slow, you can't use audio ram as texture memory, because the system can't access the texture memory fast enough to draw it per-frame. Therefore you can't have more than 24mb of textures at the ABSOLUTE maximum, and the game code has to run in that same memory, so the limit is more like 16mb.

So, I'm sorry, what were you saying? Something about research? How about getting a job in the industry so you know what you're talking about?

Boom headshot! :cool:

[Achilles]

Just for reference.

Gamecube:
-Main Memory - 24 MB MoSys 1T-SRAM
-A-Memory - 16MB
Total Memory: 40MB

PS2 actually has the worst texture processing of this generation. It can push about 6-12 Million in-game lighted, textured polygons which is the same as the Gamecube's polygon processing power (try saying that three times fast). The Gamecube, however, has hardware to do texture processing on the polys as they are drawn, while the PS2 would have to sacrifice memory and processing power to do the same. The best example of this is RE4. When compared, the PS2 version features slightly lower color count and lower resolution textures, and also does not have texture layering in certain places that the Gamecube version did have.A couple of questions: do you use that 24 MB of SRAM for textures? And wasn't the PS2 RE4 running at a higher resolution? The GC one was "16:9" but they did that by just slashing the top and bottom off a 4:3 screen. That had to speed up their game a little. I believe the PS2 one was actually in 16:9, at a higher resolution, so I guess that means the PS2 has better fill-rate. The textures just looked worse because the PS2 can't do as many texture passes (it can only do 1 unless you start duplicating geometry).

Edit: Ah Zanzibar has more exprience with the hardware than me, and he beat me to it. Rock on dude.

[Pantsmonkey]

Way to beat up on one of the better researched posts in the thread.

You could have agreed with points :)

Sure your a hero from the secret land of video gaming, don't tell me that
your job at the end of the day is any more or less grinding than anyone else's. Im sure your way up there in whatever dept it is your in and respect your well written answer it made lots of sense to me and gave everyone a reasonable reference point.

Most consoles are quite similar GASP if we are talking about cross platform non exclusive title I agree completly that grunt generally = best of most worlds (there is many definitions of grunt people big doesn't always mean more powerful) most of the time, but IMO its simple features that appear to be the scale tipper cross platform or bad graphics translations.

I was pissed of with this generation for 2 reasons. 1 Tony hawk got me back into gaming, it was fat. Tony hawk and the cool kids made gaming huge again, and by pure chance. I wanted nothing more than a new Mario or TH game to play. The PSX controller was perfect for tony hawk games and made the game better as a result. Putting any TH game cross platform against each other nearly always sees PSX lead because of better control.

Control adds to the game just as much as graphics and pipelines and ram sure everyone Needs More Ram its the solution to all lifes problems but at the end of the day its sold product with that equipment you know what you have to work with and can't bitch about it make it work, as you have mentioned you do.

This game specifically is a Nintendo first party title a Zelda title, one with the word PRINCESS in the title :) lol. Many people crave it. The first true response to everyones favourite cell shaded game Celda. If anyone pushes there little box to the edges of the earth its Nintendo, They pull shit out that just wows people, they are Nintendo. If we are going to spend the entire next generation simply saying that Power = te hWin we will read nothing but "Needed more shadows and particle effects, needs more ram"

Haven't we all learned by now looks only get you so far? This Zelda game will boost sales of a flagging console (GC) coming into the pre Christmas period in Asia. These sales will make the retiring cube look as graceful as possible as it bows out in Q3 06 - Making way Q4 for the Revolution and its Revmote control. They move lots of units and play the numbers. They can hold games to make bigger dollars in peak seasons or to make the books look better, they don't need to rush anything to us ungrateful buggers :) Why do you think there was Xbox shortage? they pushed for peak season and bit hard. Sure they will claw back. It was probably worth it Christmas breeds awesome brand image...

Sure your a Dev sure the GC is weaker all round with textures and sound pipe thingos. But people will purchase this Zelda game because its a thing people purchase. The fact it will play perfectly and with that perhaps with Revmote seems very interesting to me I am sure I will just buy it when its available.

And to everyone refering the Revmote to the Powerglove that tech was 15 years ago! These days micro surgery is done a lot more precisly that with a bloody D pad using remote control methods that required learning new methods. Im sure a gyro remote in the hands a Maestro would be very precise the games we will play with it will either be easier or more complex and rewarding accordingly. As I have said many time If anyones capable of changing or updating human interface its Nintendo.
http://www.angelfire.com/ca7/mellott124/glove.htm

Give the damn controller a chance or at least research the major differences between what the glove did poorly with cheap tech 15 years ago! and the thing that hasn't even been released yet.

Wario ware twisted had better tech than the Powerglove and everyone sings the praises of that.

You don't need 8 billion ram to make wario ware twisted or any enjoyable game for that matter more enjoyable.

/end rant :)

[Zanzibar]

Pants,

You're right. There are some good things in nemyhlovecraft's post that are absolutely true - namely hardware multipass texturing on the GC that the PS2 cannot do (although he's incorrect about the Xbox GPU - it too has multipass capabilities). My ire was brought up by his taunt of "You fail. Please do research," at which point I felt like he was suggesting that I didn't know what I was talking about. I could have been less snotty in my reply.