PlayStation 3: Beyond the Box

[Montolio]

As the title suggests, Next Generation is reporting (www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2289&Itemid=2) that Phil Harrison, President of Sony Computer Entertainment Worldwide Studios, will provide the gaming industry with long, sought-after specifics on the PS3 at GDC next month.

The speech, titled "PlayStation 3: Beyond the Box", will provide "a detailed outline" of the console's future from both technical and business perspectives. Harrison is expected to encourage developers to try new ideas to attract a more varied demographic.
GDC will take place at the San Jose Convention Center from March 20 through 24 and Harrison's keynote speech is scheduled for March 22 at 10:30 a.m.

Not to bash Sony, but isn't this something you do far ahead of a Spring 2006 launch?

[Nite_Moogle]

Specs huh? Not a playable prototype?

[Zurik]

Didn't they already mention the launch was September now?

[Rakael]

Sony is just completely full of shit, MS fucked up the 360 launch....this entire Gen, company loalty aside, is off to a horrible start.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

That means Nintendo for teh win!!!!

[Sl1pstream]

As always


....

Almost always

[Rakael]

Even Nintendo, while I applaud them for going in a new direction, is setting themselves up for utter failure (console-wise) if the Rev doesn't live up to the ungodly high expectations. I'm getting a bit depressed about it all really.

[Montolio]

Didn't they already mention the launch was September now?
We may have mentioned it but this is the only recent comment (www.joystiq.com/2006/02/16/sony-exec-insists-ps3-date-unknown/) I've seen from Sony on the subject.

[Kefkataran]

Specs huh? Not a playable prototype?

At GDC? GDC isn't a convention like E3. I wouldn't expect a playable prototype.

Sony is just completely full of shit, MS fucked up the 360 launch....this entire Gen, company loalty aside, is off to a horrible start.

Even Nintendo, while I applaud them for going in a new direction, is setting themselves up for utter failure (console-wise) if the Rev doesn't live up to the ungodly high expectations. I'm getting a bit depressed about it all really.

Yeesh. Cynical much? :p I see what you mean, but I'm really not that worried. The good games for this gen will start rolling in by next year.

As for the original post, I don't think anyone, least of all Sony themselves, expect a 2006 launch. As your link points out, Sony isn't saying Spring anymore -- they're saying "date unknown". Except the Sony website, but, you know, fuck that. :p I'm guessing a fall launch.

[DropD98]

I thought the head Sony guy ended up de-bunking the September rumor...

[Sensei-X]

Okay, I'm interested in what he has to say, but if he uses "Synergy" and "Thinking outside the box" any time during his presentation I hope somebody punches him in the back of the head.

[Morratut]

Not to bash Sony, but isn't this something you do far ahead of a Spring 2006 launch?

He heeeee. Thats funny :D

[overdrivechao]

October or November

[Nessus]

Well it's in Sony's best interests to keep the release date nebulous as possible if the PS3 has indeed been delayed. The longer they can keep stringing people along and keep them from buying a 360 the better. Same tactic they used against the Dreamcast, though I don't think it'll be as successful here.

[Citizen Philip]

We demand more speculation!

If there was 100 consoles with HDD at your favorite location in 2 weeks, less expensive than a 360, with 10 AAA titles some of you shits would complain the box was not your favorite colour.

[TrackZero]

I'd just like to thank Phil for finally reporting something concrete. Now I know when I can actually expect some answers.

[Nadreck]

It should be an interesting keynote. I'm looking forward to it.

As far as the E3 -- GDC comparison: E3 isn't a convention, either, it's an Expo (it's what the third E stands for). GDC is broader than that, as it's a full conference, which includes an expo component.

The thing about E3 is that it is focused around the end product. The GDC expo is focused around getting there (middleware, engines, devices to develop for, etc). That said, having playable demos at the expo would probably help in this respect. Or maybe I'm just being hopeful ;).

[Kefkataran]

As far as the E3 -- GDC comparison: E3 isn't a convention, either, it's an Expo (it's what the third E stands for). GDC is broader than that, as it's a full conference, which includes an expo component.

Yeah, I know. I was under the influence of Tessa from the podcast. :p But E3 is, from my understand, more comparible to a convention, and you'd expect to have demos and such there. From all I know of GDC (not having ever been there), it's never seemed to have that side of things since it's a conference. But, if it does have an expo component, that makes a bit more sense.

[31 Flavas]

Even Nintendo, while I applaud them for going in a new direction, is setting themselves up for utter failure (console-wise) if the Rev doesn't live up to the ungodly high expectations. I'm getting a bit depressed about it all really.I thought the general consenus was that since Nintendo is hiding all of their specs and features and not showing any video/screenshot that they don't have anything to offer besides "gimmicks"...

where's the ungodly high expectations in that....?

[bobbler]

GDC is for developers (for the most part)... This is one of the last places to go for information (at least information that actually matters to consumers). The talk will most likely be about different business models for next gen games... MMOs, additional content that requires payment, 'expansion packs', etc, etc. Safe bet.

If they are talking about online plan there, I'd bet on the fact that they'll announce it first elsewhere. Who knows though, stranger things have happened.

[DoubleUranium]

At GDC I would presume they would at least show the final controller. Developers often find information about things like, you know, the controller, to be handy when developing games.

[devicelimit]

I think developers have been told the controller will have a similar layout to the Dual Shock. But yeah, I would like to see what it actually looks like as well.

[Kefkataran]

I thought the general consenus was that since Nintendo is hiding all of their specs and features and not showing any video/screenshot that they don't have anything to offer besides "gimmicks"...

I don't think that's anywhere near the general consensus.

[31 Flavas]

I don't think that's anywhere near the general consensus.You sure? I know i've heard many people say its just a rouse to cover up "poor" performace (relative to 360 and PS3). That Nintendo "doesn't want to admit ." Where the * can be something along the lines of "dropping out of the console bussiness", "messed up", etc..., and other various negative phrases. But perhaps I didn't hear them on this particular website, it just sounds a heck of a lot like something EvilAv or other members would support or say.

I don't buy it, of course, and can't wait for more info on Revolution. But I don't really agree that Nintendo has really hyped the system all that much. They've confirmed backwords compatiblity and shown on the controller + num-chuck and had a video suggesting potential uses, but what else? They've been very tight lipped otherwise and refuse to talk about Revolution until this year's E3. That doesn't exactly instill "ungodly hype" into me like MS and Sony fictional CG demonstrations of 'supposed' final hardware capabilites. Or Kutaragi spazing about the PS3 while trash talking the 360. Or for that matter Peter Moore telling us "[the gameplay will be] so compelling that it will feel like living a lucid dream."

[Kefkataran]

You sure? I know i've heard many people say its just a rouse to cover up "poor" performace (relative to 360 and PS3). That Nintendo "doesn't want to admit ." Where the * can be something along the lines of "dropping out of the console bussiness", "messed up", etc..., and other various negative phrases. But perhaps I didn't hear them on this particular website, it just sounds a heck of a lot like something EvilAv or other members would support or say.

Positive. I've heard that before, but more than that I've heard people really excited about the possibilities. Sure, there's a lot of cynical people who aren't willing to trust the Revolution yet, but I think generally there are a lot more who are excited and curious to see what it has to offer.

[superherotaco]

I gotta agree with 31 Flava, I've seen a lot of "ho hum" or "that could be fun" about the Revolution, nothing near the excitement of the 360 or PS3.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I think developers have been told the controller will have a similar layout to the Dual Shock. But yeah, I would like to see what it actually looks like as well.


It looks like a boomerang, remember?

[31 Flavas]

I gotta agree with 31 Flava, I've seen a lot of "ho hum" or "that could be fun" about the Revolution, nothing near the excitement of the 360 or PS3.Well, hang on a second, I wasn't saying there wasn't excitement or that the excitement was just "so-so". Rakael said Nintendo has created "ungodly high expectations" and would have a hard time living up to them. This is what I disagree with. On the contrary, I believe Nintendo has been very careful with what they say and what information the release so as not to set expectations of the fans to a level that Nintendo would not be able to reach.

Versus Sony and Microsoft which have both created CG "tech demos" or simulations that are supposed to be the level of in game graphics the systems are capable of. But we have (at least for the 360) found out that these demos were works of complete fiction. Or at the very least, only demonstrations of FMV playback capability. They have both also made sweeping statements as to the capablities of their systems, i.e. Peter Moore's "lucid dream" statement. Whether or not you agree that 360 games are "lucid" dreams or not is your opinion and up to you, but its setting expectations quite high. I might even say "ungodly high".

[Kefkataran]

It looks like a boomerang, remember?

That was supposedly being changed. I just hope they stick with the PS2 look. *shrug*

I gotta agree with 31 Flava, I've seen a lot of "ho hum" or "that could be fun" about the Revolution, nothing near the excitement of the 360 or PS3.

Huh. *shrug* I guess I just haven't seen that many people reacting that way.

[fitbabits]

Has anyone else pointed out that the title "PlayStation 3 - Beyond The Box" may in fact be a reference to the actual box the PS3 will ship in? Maybe they're going to discuss just how they will pack everything in a cardboard box and make it light enough to carry home without the use of a U-Haul.

[Kefkataran]

Has anyone else pointed out that the title "PlayStation 3 - Beyond The Box" may in fact be a reference to the actual box the PS3 will ship in? Maybe they're going to discuss just how they will pack everything in a cardboard box and make it light enough to carry home without the use of a U-Haul.

This is why we pay you the big dollahs, Fit. Brilliant insight into the inner workings of the videogame industry!

[Sl1pstream]

Wheels!

The message you have entered is fine.

[Lord Dongkey]

Hmm...

People are willing to believe that a guy that rode around on camels and raided nomadically spoke to God.

People are willing to believe that God went ahead and sent his son to be born of a Virgin and to die so everyone could be forgiven.

People are willing to believe that the guy that came down and said he was the son of God and performed miracles was in fact NOT the guy, but that the guy was still planning on coming. So they stuck the first guy up on a cross and pissed off *LOTS* of people.

People are willing to believe that when you die, you return to the "lifestream" and come back as another life form...

But people aren't willing to believe that a company that's been defining the video game industry since Donkey Kong was released in 1981 might still be able to actually... um... continue what they've been doing since 1889?

Anyone that has a DS, and that's played Castlevania, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, the Prime Hunters demo, and a myriad of other games, knows what Nintendo is all about. I, for one, still believe.

And yeah, Microsoft may pull their heads out of their asses and be able to recover this immense clusterfuck that was their launch, and Sony may be able to salvage this catastrophe that is their marketing vs. the current industry's savvy denying them... But what is Nintendo's biggest problem they're up against?

American ignorance. Perhaps they ARE doomed to failure over here. /sigh

But I, for one, still believe.

*flexes fanboi muscles*

[fitbabits]

This is why we pay you the big dollahs, Fit. Brilliant insight into the inner workings of the videogame industry!
Why, thank you! As for the big dollars - they're useless. Ever see someone cashing one of those MASSIVE lottery winner checks? No, I didn't think so. Same with the big money. People look at me like I'm stupid when I reach into the bed of my truck and pull out a $10 bill that's the size of a small child.

[Heretic Machine]

Even Nintendo, while I applaud them for going in a new direction, is setting themselves up for utter failure (console-wise) if the Rev doesn't live up to the ungodly high expectations. I'm getting a bit depressed about it all really.

I think you should know that I am feeling very depressed.

[Rakael]

Actually 31 Flavas, I said there were ungodly high expectations, not that Nintendo created them through hype. Nintendo fans did that themselves. I am also at fault.

EDIT: Actually, I can see how you got that from what I said. What I wrote in this post is what I really meant. Its the fans that are hyping up the Rev to others and in their own minds. If Nintendo can't live up to these expectations, they could fail.

[Lord Dongkey]

Actually 31 Flavas, I said there were ungodly high expectations, not that Nintendo created them through hype. Nintendo fans did that themselves. I am also at fault.

EDIT: Actually, I can see how you got that from what I said. What I wrote in this post is what I really meant. Its the fans that are hyping up the Rev to others and in their own minds. If Nintendo can't live up to these expectations, they could fail.


I expect Nintendo to make something fun. Something Microsoft and Sony both have failed on more than they've succeeded, title for title. Some would argue the same thing about Nintendo with the GameCube games, and some of us would argue the other way, but I guess that's why they call it a free market. ;)

But seriously, people expect the 360 and the PS3 to revolutionize gaming, to bake bread, to clean their cars, to wash their clothes and watch their children, to cause instant-day-long-orgasms, for shit's sake. People are *crazy* about what they claim/expect those 2 meat-hog systems to do. Nintendo fans are just idealistic and hopeful that something fun might come out of all this crazy bullshit.

Meh, who knows. I sure as hell don't. That's why I play oldschool games and just sit around like a lump, letting the early adopters yell, scream, pull out their hair, light their homes on fire (go Sony AND Microsoft! your engineers BLOW! Wooooo), and basically, go through all the pain so I can sit back and wait until something fun comes out worth getting.

[Montolio]

I expect Nintendo to make something fun. Something Microsoft and Sony both have failed on more than they've succeeded, title for title. Some would argue the same thing about Nintendo with the GameCube games, and some of us would argue the other way, but I guess that's why they call it a free market. ;)

But seriously, people expect the 360 and the PS3 to revolutionize gaming, to bake bread, to clean their cars, to wash their clothes and watch their children, to cause instant-day-long-orgasms, for shit's sake. People are *crazy* about what they claim/expect those 2 meat-hog systems to do. Nintendo fans are just idealistic and hopeful that something fun might come out of all this crazy bullshit.

Meh, who knows. I sure as hell don't. That's why I play oldschool games and just sit around like a lump, letting the early adopters yell, scream, pull out their hair, light their homes on fire (go Sony AND Microsoft! your engineers BLOW! Wooooo), and basically, go through all the pain so I can sit back and wait until something fun comes out worth getting.
Say what you will about Nintendo and Sony but Microsoft has only been in the console gaming business since 2000 so I'm willing to give them a little more time to develop this "fun" thing you refer to. It's not like the IP from the other companies magically worked right from the start (well, in Nintendo's case...many and often heh). It takes time to build these things and figure out what your best at as a company in the gaming industry.

It's not a black and white situation IMHO.

[Mason]

Anyone that has a DS, and that's played Castlevania, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, the Prime Hunters demo, and a myriad of other games, knows what Nintendo is all about.
Hmm, we've got Konami, SNES game, boring crap, and NES-era IP in a FPS, so I'm going to go with "humping a few tired brands while waxing loquacious about innovation"? Was I close?

[Lord Dongkey]

Hmm, we've got Konami, SNES game, boring crap, and NES-era IP in a FPS, so I'm going to go with "humping a few tired brands while waxing loquacious about innovation"? Was I close?

Forsooth, good sir, it seems you have differing opinions of what is fun and what is not. Which is 100% a-ok with me. :) That's why it's a free market, as I've stated randomly in various posts.

Konami = hard-on in video game form. 95% of the time. Suikoden? Castlevania in all its incarnations? mmm...

SNES game = hard-on from the past. With evolutions, new karts, and online fun. Many people worship this game... Many.

Boring Crap = Zen in a game isn't for everyone.

NES-era IP in a FPS = Samus SMASH. The Metroid IP specifically has aged extremely well, especially having gracefully evolved into the fps genre (some people vehemently disagree and hate prime, and on top of that, some people would say it's not an FPS, but rather, an FPE - as in exploration).

To say that an IP is limited by the genre of system it was released on is to undercut the accomplishments of Mario 64, Mario Sunshine, Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker (which I personally despise but many people love - I need dungeons in my Zelda goddammit!), Marble Madness (what's that XBox live game called?), all the Castlevania games, let me re-iterate: Symphony of the Night, and the list goes on ad nauseam. To suggest that Nintendo is "humping a few tired brands" is to suggest that both sales numbers and gamer's adulation are essentially liars, which they aren't. That, and to suggest that Nintendo is loquacious about *anything* equates to an excessive use of force on exaggeration, but that's neither here nor there.

Like I said before, anyone is totally entitled to their opinion, and I respect you and your opinion for that. I, for one, love old IP since I have this built-in sense of nostalgia and a developed relationship with the characters and the storyline that only heightens my enjoyment of the series and game I'm playing, rather than trying to establish a new understanding/relationship from the ground floor with new IP.

And in response to that earlier response... (REDUNDANT HAH!) I don't personally feel Sony OR Microsoft have really excelled in the establishment of compelling new IP... That may just be a product of the sheer quantity of games on the PS2, many of them imminently forgettable, and with a few rare gems shining through (God of War, Devil May Cry, etc). And Microsoft, well, I pity them in this department. Maybe I'm just forgetting their "gems", which I'm not ruling out, but I honest to God can't think of a single IP they've established that was at all compelling.

And no, Halo doesn't fucking count. Those slumfucks at Microsoft threw a bunch of money at a company making a PC game to bring it to the console in a proprietary way for a long time frame, and that STILL pisses me off. :)

But anyway, discuss, correct me, elaborate, etc.

I'm interested in this (queue Alucard's rather poor voice acting from SoTN).

[Kefkataran]

Hmm, we've got Konami, SNES game, boring crap, and NES-era IP in a FPS, so I'm going to go with "humping a few tired brands while waxing loquacious about innovation"? Was I close?

Yikes. Bitter much? Heh. Mario Kart for DS is similar to the SNES original, but not an actual re-release, and regardless of you're feelings about Animal Crossing, a lot of people are eating it up, and it's certainly a type of game that Sony and Microsoft aren't so willing to provide.

[SuperRymo]

Okay, I'm interested in what he has to say, but if he uses "Synergy" and "Thinking outside the box" any time during his presentation I hope somebody punches him in the back of the head.

Seconded for good measure.

[overdrivechao]

You know, have to say that Nintendo and Sony take chances on originality that is rarely seen on the Xbox. Which is probably why mine is running linux and operating as a backup HD or my network. ^^

[Mason]

Yikes. Bitter much? Heh. Mario Kart for DS is similar to the SNES original, but not an actual re-release, and regardless of you're feelings about Animal Crossing, a lot of people are eating it up, and it's certainly a type of game that Sony and Microsoft aren't so willing to provide.
Nope, Mario Kart DS is not the exact same as Mario Kart 64, Mario Kart Super Circuit, Mario Kart Double Dash, or Super Mario Kart. How completely that disproves my point.

*cough*

I'm just personally tired of every pro-Nintendo fantasy going unchallenged when they've been the least open about their next gen offerings. And rhetoric aside, Nintendo does not have a good recent history of innovation, they ossified sometime early in the N64 era. Almost everything they did on the Gamecube was a pale imitation of their previous successes.

Yet Iwata's speeches have convinced way too many thinking gamers that the Big N is gaming's only hope. They rally around the "less hardware for more gameplay" argument, no matter how many examples you throw at them of hardware innovation fueling gameplay possibilities. Nor do they bat an eye when you point out that if you want to help developers make the same game for less expense, giving them a more powerful platform is the best place to start.

Pissing on everyone but Nintendo is the new hip anti-lowest-common-denominator posture, and I just don't buy it. Clap for Nintendo after they show off something great, but right now they've got a dead console (a single massively-delayed title not withstanding) and nothing but motivational speeches and vague promises to replace it with. Hold your applause.

[Kefkataran]

Nope, Mario Kart DS is not the exact same as Mario Kart 64, Mario Kart Super Circuit, Mario Kart Double Dash, or Super Mario Kart. How completely that disproves my point.

You said it was "an SNES game" suggesting that it was just a re-release of the original, which it's not. I was just making that clear.

I'm just personally tired of every pro-Nintendo fantasy going unchallenged when they've been the least open about their next gen offerings. And rhetoric aside, Nintendo does not have a good recent history of innovation, they ossified sometime early in the N64 era. Almost everything they did on the Gamecube was a pale imitation of their previous successes.

I would agree with the N64 comment and I would agree somewhat with the Gamecube, but I think they've been doing a lot of really good and interesting things with the DS that are showing innovation better than Sony and Microsoft, whether it's just new ways of looking at genres (the Kirby DS take on platforming) or "niche" titles that fill a consumer desire the others aren't hitting up (Animal Crossing, Nintendogs, Train Your Brain). I'm not gonna go all silly and say "NINTENDO IS THE ONLY TRUE INNOVATOR AND GAMING'S ONLY HOPE", like you said, but I still think they have done some really wonderful stuff lately and have a lot of hope for the possibilities of the Revolution. Whether or not that's going to turn out, only time will tell, so I'm not even guessing on that right now.

Pissing on everyone but Nintendo is the new hip anti-lowest-common-denominator posture, and I just don't buy it. Clap for Nintendo after they show off something great, but right now they've got a dead console (a single massively-delayed title not withstanding) and nothing but motivational speeches and vague promises to replace it with. Hold your applause.

I again point the DS and again disagree. *shrug* I don't think you can assume that everyone who's interested or excited about Nintendo is just doing it because it's the cool thing to do. That's stupid.

[Lord Dongkey]

I sense great anger.

Gotta second Kefkataran on this entirely. It's not a blind idealistic hopeful fantasy that Nintendo will lead the gaming masses out of the darkness and into the blinding light of gaming Nirvana, but rather, they're the only company that really has a track record defined by innovation. And yeah, sometimes it's not well received in the US, GameCube being case in point there, but at least it's something.

no matter how many examples you throw at them of hardware innovation fueling gameplay possibilities. Nor do they bat an eye when you point out that if you want to help developers make the same game for less expense, giving them a more powerful platform is the best place to start.

The more powerful the platform, the more spectacular and flashy and pretty the games are. The more spectacular and flashy and pretty the games are, the more time it's going to take in man hours to make the game. The more time it takes in man hours to make a game, the more money you have to pay people to make the game. The more money you pay people to make a game, the higher your investment into the development is going to be. The higher the investment into development, the less risk an investor wants to take.

Therefore, more powerful platforms are the WORST place to start for innovation. Xbox 360 breaks the mold a bit on that, since developing for it is supposed to be quite easy/nice/supported/etc, but they have another thing going against them... the stigma of releasing system's people don't really like that much. Given a machine that has great specs and easy dev kits and little market penetration, vs. a machine that's a bitch to develop for and isn't near as powerful and has HUGE market penetration, the vast majority of dev. studios/production companys/investors are going to go with the market penetration. Money is the prime motivating factor, not some pure love of gaming and investment in the bright future of its growth.

Gross generalizations and such, of course, but the fact remains... you're throwing around some serious absolutes when the situation is in fact, at best, a murky cloud that probably isn't in favor of your theory.

As always, I'm not trying to offend or anything, just framing things as I see them. I've been wrong before, I will be again, but hell, we have to have SOMETHING to keep us sane at work, right? :cool:

[Nite_Moogle]

Hmm, we've got Konami, SNES game, boring crap, and NES-era IP in a FPS, so I'm going to go with "humping a few tired brands while waxing loquacious about innovation"? Was I close?
Just a question -- how many IPs do Microsoft or Sony have that are as old as Metroid?

Oh right.

Nintendo has brought more to video games than Sony or Microsoft has. Sony gave us CD-based media; Microsoft has brought us to the brink of a massive online gaming explosion with Xbox Live. Nintendo gave us shoulder buttons, the now-standard analog stick, the first great 3D platformer against which all other cameras are judged (Mario 64), they have reigned supreme in the handheld arena for over a decade, and their "gimmick" DS has proven to be more than a worthy competitor for the technologically superior PSP. Now the buzz is that we're finally going to get an honestly groundbreaking controller that will totally change the way we play games in a much more drastic way than analog sticks ever did. I don't think it's beyond understanding why people that are tired of the very formulaic style that many games have taken have rallied behind the big N.

I guess that all that plus Nintendo being the only profitable company of the Big Three over the last few years doesn't have any impact on whether or not their Metroid IP will continue to outlast any of their competitors. The DS has already proven that the fun factor of a system will trump its graphical inferiority. The 64 and the GC have lagged behind because of lack of third party support, but if the Revolution's controller is all that and a bag of potato chips as they (and by they I mean people that have used it not employed by Nintendo) say it is, this could be the generation that Nintendo makes a big comeback.

[mister_slim]

I suppose my expectation is that Nintendo will continue to do clever things with interface design and also continue to exhibit a more subtle understanding of game design than most developers. Since those are the things that interest me, I'm pretty sure I'll enjoy the Rev.
Hmm, we've got Konami, SNES game, boring crap, and NES-era IP in a FPS, so I'm going to go with "humping a few tired brands while waxing loquacious about innovation"? Was I close?
You're sounding more and more like Reanimated.