Why Modern Warfare 2's Campaign Co-Op Was Taken Out

[pwnophobia]

http://evavhost.com/i/news/moderwarfare2.png

Community Manager Robert Bowling explained to VG247 that having co-op in MW2 "ruined the experience":

"We did it early on; that's what Spec Ops started out as, as co-op through story," Bowling told VG247. "But it really broke the cinematic experience, took the immersion out of it, out of the story and the pacing and everything we'd spent so long crafting. It just ruined the experience we were aiming for, so we took it out, kept the single-player for that one player intact and polished it.

He went on to say that some of the really fun co-op moments were used for MW2's Spec Ops mode which is a mission-based co-op section that is seperate from the main campaign.

Kotaku (http://kotaku.com/5382867/why-modern-warfare-2-campaign-co+op-was-scrubbed)via VG247 (http://www.vg247.com/2009/10/15/iw-dropped-modern-warfare-2-campaign-co-op-as-it-ruined-the-experience/)

[Meusli]

So what they are saying in effect is that they could not do it. If you set out to make a coop game you do not make it like a single player game then add coop and moan about it messing up your immersion/pacing etc Probably turn out to be a grenade spam fest anyway.

[anoon]

TRANSLATION:
Putting two people in the mix totally breaks our game design paradigm consisting of rigid and inflexible scripted sequences built upon infinitely respawning enemies, and grenade spam, all controlled by clear as day trigger points.

[Demo_Boy]

It smells like the publisher didn't want it.

And its a sound decision, why bother adding risk and difficulty on delivery when you have a surefire hit anyway?

Perhaps IW will get to do a new IP next and we will see a coop campaign in there... 2 years from now...

[shpankey]

They could have just made it to where it was unlock-able after finishing the game on the highest difficulty... thereby just making it a "bonus" so to speak.

[Zander]

The negativity towards Infinity Ward over this issue is bizarre to me. Is IW all of a sudden known for trying to screw the consumer? What have they done to deserve the kind of vitriol I see over this.

Are people going to freak out when they pick up CoD6 and they find out there are no zombies in it too?

Yes, I wish there was campaign co-op I guess. Is this is a deal breaker for me? Hell no, I don't buy CoD games for the campaign anyway, it's just a bonus to me.

[Roc Ingersol]

TRANSLATION:
Putting two people in the mix totally breaks our game design paradigm consisting of rigid and inflexible scripted sequences built upon infinitely respawning enemies, and grenade spam, all controlled by clear as day trigger points.I have a hard time believing it was anything other than exactly this. Their triggering and scripting is brittle enough as it is. Allowing for even two players who might split up would be a challenge that their tools and stand-by design just can't handle. Not without turning the game into something they don't want to build. (E.g. the much-lower-intensity open-world-esque Halo levels, or the much more linear corridor-shooting of Gears.)

[techromage]

The negativity towards Infinity Ward over this issue is bizarre to me. Is IW all of a sudden known for trying to screw the consumer? What have they done to deserve the kind of vitriol I see over this.

Are people going to freak out when they pick up CoD6 and they find out there are no zombies in it too?

Yes, I wish there was campaign co-op I guess. Is this is a deal breaker for me? Hell no, I don't buy CoD games for the campaign anyway, it's just a bonus to me.

You know what else is a bonus? You using the word vitriol. Congrats. Take a bow.


Also to this day I still haven't finished the single player campaign in CoD 4. I'm simply not interested in it. I bought the game for multiplayer. And yea I don't think I'll miss co-op in MW2 either. If i wanted a game for co-op I'd play Army of Two or something.

[Johan]

TRANSLATION:
Putting two people in the mix totally breaks our game design paradigm consisting of rigid and inflexible scripted sequences built upon infinitely respawning enemies, and grenade spam, all controlled by clear as day trigger points.

I have to agree that this analysis seems spot on, though I will add that many people just want the multliplayer, not a single or co-op experience.

I'm still going to enjoy the game. It will be the first full-priced retail game I'll have bought in so long I can't remember the last one. I'm cheap, and prices are constantly moving down over time.

[shadow763]

TRANSLATION:
Putting two people in the mix totally breaks our game design paradigm consisting of rigid and inflexible scripted sequences built upon infinitely respawning enemies, and grenade spam, all controlled by clear as day trigger points.

My point from the begging. Treyarch who is apparently shit, did it well enough, yet IW who is lauded as so great couldn't go it. They only know one style of game design and that has been readily apparent. They made a good multiplayer in COD4 and now people are so quick to give them a free pass.

[vallancian]

The negativity towards Infinity Ward over this issue is bizarre to me. Is IW all of a sudden known for trying to screw the consumer? What have they done to deserve the kind of vitriol I see over this.

maybe the fact they brought out loads of useless peripherals at extremely high pricing because they know people will buy it just because it has the modern warfare brand logo on just so they can squeeze that little extra bit of money out of the consumer?

OR

Maybe the fact that they said to sony that theyre console prices were too high and that if they didnt reduce them they wouldnt bring out MW2 on the ps3 regardless of the fact that their prestige edition is basically over half the price of the console?

either way its just another letdown in the infinity ward section.

[dr_wily]

that's just a lame excuse for limiting dev time on that feature..

OF COURSE if you want the experience you play 1p, but thats not the point

some people like me don't have the luxury of playing alone. co-op is a way to experience it when i actually have a friend over to motivate me.. WAW did JUST fine cinematically in co-op as far as im concerned.

shoot, most people skip the cinematics anyway.. <hit A over and over and over>

[Johan]

some people like me don't have the luxury of playing alone.

This just doesn't make sense to me. :confused: Can you explain it?

[CSargeP]

This just doesn't make sense to me. :confused: Can you explain it?

If he is like me, he has a very insistent little brother.

Or roomates.

[Primus]

Hey IW, how about you let me decide for myself? I really don't care about your rejected B movie plot, but I would like to kill terrorists with 3 of my friends. And hey, the guys who act like these games are comparable to Citizen Kane can still choose to play by themselves and keep the atmosphere.

Now, more than likely I will stop playing the single player a few missions in, and stick with the multiplayer, just like I did with COD4.

Meanwhile I am still playing Halo 3 and COD5's campaign at random with friends. Fuck, I will even take a 4 player horde mode that your so called peers (see Bungie, Valve, Epic, Treyarch (the supposive 'lesser' studio)) have already been implementing for quite some time.

Don't bother with 2 player co-op. Thats some last gen bullshit right there.

The game is going to be awesome, but it could of been fucking awesome!

[SPBTooL]

It has been reported that IW have removed the infinitely spawning enemies and added real physics to the grenades. So I don’t think that those can be used as arguments any more as to why they didn’t include campaign co-op. More likely the reason is because w/o the infinite enemies the campaign co-op was too easy and broke the pacing.

I’m glad there is a split screen option in any form. Not enough games are supporting same system play. From what I’ve read and seen the Spec Ops mode is a better co-op experience than the campaign would have been. Makes sense when each is designed for its purpose. The only thing really missing is support for more than 2 players. Only 2 is a fine limit for split screen but it should have been designed with at least 4 players online in mind. Most of the time, our party size is around 4 or 5 peeps.

Why the aggravation and outrage toward IW? When has IW ever been known to lie to their fans? It is not like we are talking about Code Masters here.

[Anenome]

TRANSLATION:
Putting two people in the mix totally breaks our game design paradigm consisting of rigid and inflexible scripted sequences built upon infinitely respawning enemies, and grenade spam, all controlled by clear as day trigger points.
Seriously, and this sort of design is so goddamn 1990 too. Game developers will not be able to get away with this forever. They've got to get over the idea that a game can be handled the same way as a movie and start thinking about organically producing drama and tension instead of scripting it heavily.

I've waited for a long time to play Normandy Beach where the computer AI didn't know who was the player and who was an AI-ally storming in. I want to be just another guy on the beach, no special boon or favors. If I do something dumb, take me out. But, the tech isn't there yet to do something so massive, but it's getting close. Some of the CoD stuff came close. But, you play it long enough and it's quite transparent where the boundaries are, and how perfectly and easily scripted it is.

Frankly, despite their claim of wanting to protect their experience, by the time you're playing coop, it's probably the 2nd time through anyway. Let the 1st player campaign be your perfect cinematic experience and then include coop even if it breaks that. The two are separate functionalities and should be treated so. Reducing the value of your product because you can't figure out that coop is a different animal and needs to be treated that way is just lazy. Build your game from the beginnig with coop in mind, stop thinking you can tack it on and it will work.

[Anenome]

Hey IW, how about you let me decide for myself? I really don't care about your rejected B movie plot, but I would like to kill terrorists with 3 of my friends. And hey, the guys who act like these games are comparable to Citizen Kane can still choose to play by themselves and keep the atmosphere.
- Haha! Perfect, exactly ^_^

[anoon]

It has been reported that IW have removed the infinitely spawning enemies and added real physics to the grenades.

Perhaps, but I will believe it when I see it.

You don't sell a bajillion copies of COD2 and COD4 with that system and then go throw it out for no good reason other than to satisfy internet whiners, (like me.) Color me skeptical.

[92miata]

i'm sure they will add this later at a cost.....

[Lactose]

This is kind of a silly thing to get bent out of shape over. MW2 has as much (or more) coop gameplay as it does single player. If you care about the story-line, then you'll understand that the story works better when it is catering to one player. When you're in the mood for exciting coop action, well there's an abundance of missions designed with coop in mind.

We realized that the best choice was to split sp and coop so that both could be the best they could be, and neither would suffer the limitations of the other.

As for spawning/triggering, watch the Cliffhanger or Takedown videos and you can see that we have addressed that issue.

[Johan]

As for spawning/triggering, watch the Cliffhanger or Takedown videos and you can see that we have addressed that issue.

This would make me very happy. I am hopeful it is true!