NPD Numbers: Sales Down

[bapenguin]

Gamasutra (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=8143) is reporting some numbers from the NPD group regarding January Sales in North America. A few interesting things to note.

Overall gaming sales were down 5%
The 360 sold 250,000, down from 600,000 the previous 2 months (850,000 total)
The PSP outsold the DS by 20,000 units (180,000 vs 160,000)
The PS2 outsold the 360 by 25,000 units.


And there ya have it.

[Borys]

Full numbers:


GameCube - 66k
Xbox - 89k
Nintendo DS - 158k
Game Boy Advance - 172k
PlayStation Portable - 179k
Xbox 360 - 249k
PlayStation 2 - 272k


Market share by platform (units sold):


360 - 5.79%
NDS - 7.39%
PSP - 7.77%
GCN - 10.35%
GBA - 14.19%
XBX - 16.71%
PS2 - 37.35%


Xbox is still going strong.

[TrackZero]

It still blows my mind how many GBAs are out there.

[agentgray]

It still blows my mind how many GBAs are out there.
Man, the PS2 numbers are even higher than that.

[Balthasar]

Xbox is still going strong.
If strong can be described as being outsold by inferor hardware by a margin of more than 2-1, yeah, I guess.

[Borys]

If strong can be described as being outsold by inferor hardware by a margin of more than 2-1, yeah, I guess.

Totally not what I meant.

The 360 is out and people still buy Xbox.

[Roc Ingersol]

game sales down by 5%, movie theatre revenue down by 6%, music CD sales down 7%
... energy and gas prices spiked all year long.

C'mon guys - it ain't a difficult connection to make.

[handsalad]

Are these numbers from sale of used consoles and new consoles combined or just new consoles?

[bapenguin]

Are these numbers from sale of used consoles and new consoles combined or just new consoles?

I'm pretty sure it's just new.

[Balthasar]

Totally not what I meant.

The 360 is out and people still buy Xbox.
I'm sure that isn't what you meant, as my comments were intended to be facetious. What I meant was, the 360 is out and people still buy the PS2. Don't you find that remarkable?

[Taco]

If they cost the same, yes.

[bean19]

Also, the total sales numbers are a bit misleading as several big retailers are not tracked by NPD. . . like Wal-Mart.

They do a better job of tracking marketshare as they get enough of a comparison between systems.

Just don't trust the total sales figures as they are much lower than actual sales.

[bean19]

I'm sure that isn't what you meant, as my comments were intended to be facetious. What I meant was, the 360 is out and people still buy the PS2. Don't you find that remarkable?

Yeah, I do. It seems odd to me that the PS2 continues to sell so well. I know I had to buy 3 of them over the system's lifetime due to systems breaking down, but those numbers imply NEW homes. . . not just replacements. I bet 75% of those sells are new.

I think that the X360 will continue to have poor marketshare until they satisfy initial demand and slump in sales long enough to stockpile them. . . If you only have 2 million to sell in the first 3 months, you are not going to do very well in comparison to other products even if you sell 100% of them.

You can bet that the X360 will sell a whole lot more units next Christmas than the PS3, and it won't be because the system is a ton more popular than the PS3, but that it will be a ton more available than the PS3.

Still, the PS2 selling such huge numbers so late in the console's life is just amazingly impressive. Having a huge library of games is the way to get and keep customers.

[Citizen Philip]

A new expensive console with no games, negative media coverage, is a console that will not sell.

[Roc Ingersol]

Negative media coverage?

[Nite_Moogle]

Also, the total sales numbers are a bit misleading as several big retailers are not tracked by NPD. . . like Wal-Mart
Just in case you missed it the first time, since I've heard that Wal-Mart sells a few things now and then to a couple people.

[bean19]

A new expensive console with no games, negative media coverage, is a console that will not sell.

I think you are assuming the PS3 will not have any games and will have negative media coverage. We really don't know what they'll have, and if they launch with MGS, then they'll at least have one good game. I'm betting that EA will have a lineup of their X360 sports games to port over too. They'll almost definitely have more games at launch than they had in previous launches.

Plus, the PS3 looks like it will be about as good as the X360, and that really is good if you have HDTV. I can't see them getting negative coverage from the media except maybe for hype that they don't deliver on. . . still, they'll pay the price for the hype they don't deliver on at E3. . . well in advance of the PS3 launch (unless they promise special features for the U.S. release or something.)

Even if both of these unlikely events occurred, you can be sure that the PS3 will STILL sell out to early adopters. They'll sell so well that they'll have the same problem that Microsoft has had with the X360: meeting demand.

[Taco]

I'm assuming he was talking about the 360, not the PS3. However no games compared to other launches or the PS2/XBox? And negative media coverage?

[sflufan]

I'm sure that isn't what you meant, as my comments were intended to be facetious. What I meant was, the 360 is out and people still buy the PS2. Don't you find that remarkable?

Not really when you consider that no one can actually find a 360.

[bean19]

I'm assuming he was talking about the 360, not the PS3. However no games compared to other launches or the PS2/XBox? And negative media coverage?

How could he be? The X360 launch was a huge success in the gaming media and in sales. . . they still don't have enough units out to meet demand in many areas in North America and Europe.

Also, while certain people may not have liked the X360 launch titles, there were a whole lot of them and a whole lot of them scored very high scores pretty much universally. They may not have a killer app, but they have around ten titles that got an 80% or higher through the meta-review sites.

Why would he say that the X360 launch was unsuccessful when it was successful, didn't have any good games when it did have good games, and had negative media coverage when most of the media coverage (all of it but the laments over the short supply) was positive?

I'm thinking you must have misinterpreted his comment Taco. . . that's just doesn't mesh with reality in any way.

[Cool AN]

The overall sales are probably down because the PS 3 and Revolution are coming out in a couple of months.

[Kamalot]

Game sales are down because anyone with Animal Crossing has no need for any other game.

[Taco]

In the end, PS3 or 360, it doesn't make sense either way :). You certainly can't make those complaints about an unreleased system that's a fair ways off.

[Balthasar]

Not really when you consider that no one can actually find a 360.
What about the fact that the PS2 outsells the Xbox by a margin greater than 2-1?

[Balthasar]

How could he be? The X360 launch was a huge success in the gaming media and in sales.
You can't say it was a huge success in sales when it didn't sell that well relative to current generation consoles. Regardless of the reasons it is not selling, you can't add imaginary numbers to the totals.

[Steele Johnson]

I'm sure that isn't what you meant, as my comments were intended to be facetious. What I meant was, the 360 is out and people still buy the PS2. Don't you find that remarkable?

I'm not surprised at all. There are way more games for the PS2. And a lot of the games are quite good.

Software sells hardware... it's not the other way around.

[Cubfan]

Interesting. A handful of co-workers recently bought PSP's, and I doubt any of them were even aware that the DS exists. But all that you hear from people on the intraweb is how the DS is dominating, and the PSP is yet another failed competitor to Nintendo's handheld dominance. Now I'm confused. Is the PSP doing that well or was this month an anomaly?

Addendum: Yes I realize that if you combine sales of the GBA and DS they nearly double PSP sales, so Nintendo obviously isn't hurting. But I'm specifically referring to sales of just the DS vs. the PSP.

[Wyrm]

The PSP may be a cooler looking device, but the game selection BLOWS.

The sales figures dont really surprise. Not a whole lot of good games have come out lately.

[Balthasar]

I'm not surprised at all. There are way more games for the PS2. And a lot of the games are quite good.

Software sells hardware... it's not the other way around.
I agree. I just think it's remarkable how clearly that fact comes across in the PS2 sales figures.

Also interesting is how much ground the PSP is picking up on the DS.

[Lord Dongkey]

Last I checked, the PSP and the GBA are in direct competition for market share. And the PSP and iPod are in direct competition for market share. And the PSP and DVD's are in direct competition for market share.

Sometimes, being able to do a shitload of things only passably well means you lose in all of them. Statistically, the PSP isn't beating much of anyone, but it isn't flopping either. Remember, it has SONY stamped on it.

[Taco]

There's a lot more advertising going on in the PSP camp and I don't think Nintendo really expected the DS to be as successful as it has been. They were kind of treating it as the bastard stepsister of the GBA until fairly recently.

[Lord Dongkey]

http://pspupdates.qj.net/2005/09/suikoden-1-2-compilation-for-psp.html

Then again, if something like this DOES come out translated in the US, I will be ethically obliged to purchase the system. Once they get some decent games - and a handle on those damned load times - they'll do well, I'm sure.

[Balthasar]

This:
Last I checked, the PSP and the GBA are in direct competition for market share.

and this:
Sometimes, being able to do a shitload of things only passably well means you lose in all of them.
have nothing to do with each other. It is beyond Sony's control that Nintendo has multiple versions of its handheld hardware out on the market at once.

And the PSP and iPod are in direct competition for market share.
You mean indirect. The PSP is not a dedicated music device.

And the PSP and DVD's are in direct competition for market share.
That's false. How does a piece of hardware compete with a media format?

[TrackZero]

Man, the PS2 numbers are even higher than that.

Well I'd hope there's more home consoles than portables. My shock is that there's that many portable consoles, and GBAs at that, since the hardware is little better than a SNES.

[Balthasar]

Interesting. A handful of co-workers recently bought PSP's, and I doubt any of them were even aware that the DS exists. But all that you hear from people on the intraweb is how the DS is dominating, and the PSP is yet another failed competitor to Nintendo's handheld dominance. Now I'm confused. Is the PSP doing that well or was this month an anomaly?
I find it interesting that living in NYC, I have not once seen a person on the train with a DS. PSPs are a getting somewhat commonplace, however (not as much as the iPod, but still).

[XenonCJ]

Recently, I haven't bought much in the way of entertainment products (consoles, DVDs, movie tickets, TVs) because of 1 thing: World of Warcraft. I've been pretty much "set" for the last year or so, and I know about 6 million others just like me =)

[Steele Johnson]

Also interesting is how much ground the PSP is picking up on the DS.

I wonder if that has to do with the amount of movies available for the platform. It seems like it's limited in games.

My friend gave his 3 young kids a DS for Christmas. The only reason they wanted it was because of Ninendogs. They couldn't care less about other games. It just goes to show you that if you have even 1 killer app, you'll sell a lot of hardware.

With that said, I have no problem with the 360 shortages.

[TrackZero]

I find it interesting that living in NYC, I have not once seen a person on the train with a DS. PSPs are a getting somewhat commonplace, however (not as much as the iPod, but still).

Here in T.O. I've seen both for quite some time now (since the start of last year). GBAs more than either though.

[TrackZero]

I wonder if that has to do with the amount of movies available for the platform. It seems like it's limited in games.

My friend gave his 3 young kids a DS for Christmas. The only reason they wanted it was because of Ninendogs. They couldn't care less about other games. It just goes to show you that if you have even 1 killer app, you'll sell a lot of hardware.

With that said, I have no problem with the 360 shortages.

I'd assume the PSP sales have been driven by the insane amount of advertising Sony's been pushing out for them over the Holiday season. Nothing more or less really.

[Steele Johnson]

I'd assume the PSP sales have been driven by the insane amount of advertising Sony's been pushing out for them over the Holiday season. Nothing more or less really.

Well if that's the case, there are a lot of suckers out there. ;)

[TrackZero]

Well if that's the case, there are a lot of suckers out there. ;)

There always are.

[Cool AN]

Interesting. A handful of co-workers recently bought PSP's, and I doubt any of them were even aware that the DS exists. But all that you hear from people on the intraweb is how the DS is dominating, and the PSP is yet another failed competitor to Nintendo's handheld dominance. Now I'm confused. Is the PSP doing that well or was this month an anomaly?



The PSP has been doing better then the DS for a long time, except in Japan. The DS has outsold it a couple of months, but it hasn't really been the norm. That and the PSP hasn't been out as long as the DS.

[Balthasar]

I'd assume the PSP sales have been driven by the insane amount of advertising Sony's been pushing out for them over the Holiday season. Nothing more or less really.
That's far too simplistic. You can't just say "advertise this product, and they will buy."

[Heretic Machine]

The overall sales are probably down because the PS 3 and Revolution are coming out in a couple of months.

...April is going to be a pretty disapointing month for you.

[TrackZero]

The PSP has been doing better then the DS for a long time, except in Japan. The DS has outsold it a couple of months, but it hasn't really been the norm. That and the PSP hasn't been out as long as the DS.

The DS outsold it for more than a "couple" of months and by a large margin. Week over week the PSP has only been overselling it by a small chunk, that's why they still haven't caught up yet. They're both quite popular though, but I thought we'd outgrown the "my portable is more popular than yours".

(And yes, I own both, so let's not start.)

[copasetic]

That's far too simplistic. You can't just say "advertise this product, and they will buy."

Actually, you usually can. Superior advertising will oftentimes overcome a superior product. Your JoeBlow sees the pretty graphics in the ad and thinks, "i have money burning a hole in my pocket from my bonus, ill pick that up." He may not even know about the competition due to advertising.
I think your bias has been clouding your judgement a bit. To refute some of your points from the previous page:
It doesnt matter if sony has control of their competition. They still compete with them and still can lose.
You dont have to be a dedicated music player to directly compete with the ipod. Also, the ipod is not a dedicated music player either. text, pictures and videos as well.
The psp is competing with dvds because of the umd. It wasnt stated plainly but i think the implication was quite obvious. everytime someones buys a umd they consider the dvd instead.

[TrackZero]

Actually, you usually can. Superior advertising will oftentimes overcome a superior product. Your JoeBlow sees the pretty graphics in the ad and thinks, "i have money burning a hole in my pocket from my bonus, ill pick that up." He may not even know about the competition due to advertising.


No doubt. Why do you think Windows95 took over while OS/2 warp was a far superior product? Advertising. That goddamn "start me up" campaign was everywhere, people didn't even realize there was competition at the time.

[Taco]

That's far too simplistic. You can't just say "advertise this product, and they will buy."

Yeah you can. Especially when only one of them are really doing any advertising.

[Cool AN]

The DS outsold it for more than a "couple" of months and by a large margin. Week over week the PSP has only been overselling it by a small chunk, that's why they still haven't caught up yet. They're both quite popular though, but I thought we'd outgrown the "my portable is more popular than yours".

(And yes, I own both, so let's not start.)

It is true that the PSP hasn't been outselling the DS by a lot (I never said it did), however it has been outselling the DS most of the months since it's release, as far as I can remember.

[Achilles]

Interesting. A handful of co-workers recently bought PSP's, and I doubt any of them were even aware that the DS exists. But all that you hear from people on the intraweb is how the DS is dominating, and the PSP is yet another failed competitor to Nintendo's handheld dominance. Now I'm confused. Is the PSP doing that well or was this month an anomaly?Your confusion comes from most people pointing to Japanese numbers to say that the DS is crushing the PSP. This is understandable because fans want to find numbers that say it's crushing the PSP, and also because Japanese numbers are readily available, where US numbers aren't. In other regions the PSP is doing very well and has higher game sales for 3rd party games.

[Balthasar]

Actually, you usually can. Superior advertising will oftentimes overcome a superior product. Your JoeBlow sees the pretty graphics in the ad and thinks, "i have money burning a hole in my pocket from my bonus, ill pick that up." He may not even know about the competition due to advertising.
I didn't say advertising isn't a significant factor. I said it is not as simple just advertising the product. You can't sustain sales purely on ads. You have to actually have some sort of product to sell. This is elementary.

I think your bias has been clouding your judgement a bit.
That's funny. What bias would that be?

To refute some of your points from the previous page:
It doesnt matter if sony has control of their competition. They still compete with them and still can lose.
Your original premise is rendered meaningless when you try to add up the sales figures of the GBA(s) and the DS against the PSP. The combined sales of two systems vs one does not reflect anything meaningful in the "futility of convergence" debate.

You dont have to be a dedicated music player to directly compete with the ipod. Also, the ipod is not a dedicated music player either. text, pictures and videos as well.
It can't be in direct competition if it's primary function is not music (which it isn't). The iPod is primarily a music device.

The psp is competing with dvds because of the umd.
The UMD, then, is competing with the DVD (which, according to news linked here, will start to be bundled with DVDs for a slightly higher price, if one desires both formats).

It wasnt stated plainly but i think the implication was quite obvious. everytime someones buys a umd they consider the dvd instead.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, especially in relation to the rest of the post.

[Ultima Thulian]

I think the main reason that game sales have dropped is because it's the post-December time. Jan-March tend to be the slowest period for games. Hell, Christmas ended, and people are broke and/or still enjoying what they got for Christmas. As for the PSP vs. DS debate...yeah, the PSP might be doing better, but only slightly (keep in the lack of Wal-Mart #'s as Wal-Mart is big seller for Nintendo hardware/software). Add the GBA/GBASp/GBAmicro and there you go. Plus, the DS is cheaper to make than the PSP, isn't it?

[Balthasar]

I think the main reason that game sales have dropped is because it's the post-December time.
Or because there are no games worth buying right now.

As for the PSP vs. DS debate...yeah, the PSP might be doing better, but only slightly (keep in the lack of Wal-Mart #'s as Wal-Mart is big seller for Nintendo hardware/software). Add the GBA/GBASp/GBAmicro and there you go. Plus, the DS is cheaper to make than the PSP, isn't it?
The NPD numbers are supposed to take into account Wal-Mart numbers and extrapolate what they are. While they aren't likely to be accurate to the unit, they're going to be in the neighborhood, so it's not like the numbers completely omit Wal-mart. Also, I don't get what cost of development has to do with anything.

[copasetic]

I didn't say advertising isn't a significant factor. I said it is not as simple just advertising the product. You can't sustain sales purely on ads. You have to actually have some sort of product to sell. This is elementary.

Well they do have a product to sell. Someone else was just arguing that the advertising was what pushed it ahead. Which is quite "elementary".

That's funny. What bias would that be?

Hell if i know, your posts have just had so many statements with no apparent reasoning. I figured your reasoning was bias.

Your original premise is rendered meaningless when you try to add up the sales figures of the GBA(s) and the DS against the PSP. The combined sales of two systems vs one does not reflect anything meaningful in the "futility of convergence" debate.

Your? You? Check the posts man. That was someone else.

It can't be in direct competition if it's primary function is not music (which it isn't). The iPod is primarily a music device.

Primary function? Earlier you said it was a music dedicated machine. Backpedalling? Go to apple's ipod site and you cant tell what its 'primary' function is.

The UMD, then, is competing with the DVD (which, according to news linked here, will start to be bundled with DVDs for a slightly higher price, if one desires both formats).

Well, considering the only thing that plays the umd is a psp, I think its fair game to say that they are competing. It may be better to say that the dvd player and the psp are competing. Surpise there though, one plays dvds and the other umds. Crazy.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, especially in relation to the rest of the post.

Well when you split a thought in half, they usually dont make sense. Just for you though, it was in reference to how dvds and the psp compete (or their respective media).


Basically, you are just arguing semantics and that gets nowhere. None of these arguments were originally mine and so I can't help how they were worded initially.

[Balthasar]

Well they do have a product to sell. Someone else was just arguing that the advertising was what pushed it ahead. Which is quite "elementary".
Actually, the original comment was "I'd assume the PSP sales have been driven by the insane amount of advertising Sony's been pushing out for them over the Holiday season. Nothing more or less really."
The "nothing more or less" is where I say he is simplifying the situation way too much.

Hell if i know, your posts have just had so many statements with no apparent reasoning. I figured your reasoning was bias.
Ad hominem attacks aside...

Your? You? Check the posts man. That was someone else.
My mistake. When you took up the argument, it sounded like it was yours, so I didn't bother to go back in the thread. Appologies.

Primary function? Earlier you said it was a music dedicated machine. Backpedalling? Go to apple's ipod site and you cant tell what its 'primary' function is.
No backpedeling. Dedicated need not mean "sole function." For example, "the iPod is dedicated primarily to playing music, with the added functionality of playing videos and other miscellaneous activities." I probably should not have said dedicated at all, as that is generally the implication. But unless you thought I wasn't fully aware of the 5G iPod model, I think we can assume I meant "primary."

I know the PSP does not compete directly with the iPod because the target audience doesn't quite match up. If you can imagine a Venn Diagram, set A (PSP) and set B (iPod) have intersecting points, but do not completely overlap.

Well, considering the only thing that plays the umd is a psp, I think its fair game to say that they are competing. It may be better to say that the dvd player and the psp are competing. Surpise there though, one plays dvds and the other umds. Crazy.
It's actually much more accurate to say the PSP competes with the other handheld video devices, regardless of media-type used.

Well when you split a thought in half, they usually dont make sense. Just for you though, it was in reference to how dvds and the psp compete (or their respective media).
Well, you stated "everytime someones buys a umd they consider the dvd instead." That statement doesn't make any sense in the context you wrote it, or really on its own.

Basically, you are just arguing semantics and that gets nowhere. None of these arguments were originally mine and so I can't help how they were worded initially.
I'm arguing the factuality of the statements themselves, not the grammar. There's a big difference between saying the PSP competes with the DVD (which it can't), and saying the PSP competes with the Archos AV 420 (which it does).

[triptogn]

I have yet to see an Xbox 360 in a store to this date. It's no wonder their sales are down, you can't find one anywhere!

[TrackZero]

I have yet to see an Xbox 360 in a store to this date. It's no wonder their sales are down, you can't find one anywhere!

Too true, that is a fundamental problem. There's some sparadic core systems around Toronto at least (though I haven't actually seen them in said stores, I only know from calling to ask if they had any 360s). It's funny because in all honesty it has caused me to decide to buy my system later in the summer, after all the running around looking I've just lost the initial excitement and figure I may as well wait a bit.

[Ultima Thulian]

Or because there are no games worth buying right now.


The NPD numbers are supposed to take into account Wal-Mart numbers and extrapolate what they are. While they aren't likely to be accurate to the unit, they're going to be in the neighborhood, so it's not like the numbers completely omit Wal-mart. Also, I don't get what cost of development has to do with anything.

If it cost less to make something...and you sell it for a high price...then TA-DAH! Take the Gameboy Micro. Nintendo sells it for nearly twice the amount it costs to produce. The microsoft Xbox however, sell much cheaper than it costs to produce, so profits rely completely on the sales of the software (which in sense is true on all platforms...). See what I mean? It doesn't matter how many units you sell if the hardware isn't profiting from good software sales. The PSP is selling well, but except for GTA, most of their games are selling poorly. However, several DS games are selling well, like Nintendogs, Castlevania, and Pokemon Emerald (it's a GBA game, I know!).

So, yeah, obviously cost of development has to do with something.

[Balthasar]

If it cost less to make something...and you sell it for a high price...then TA-DAH!
No one was discussing profit margins of the respective companies, so development costs have nothing to do with this.

[Ultima Thulian]

No one was discussing profit margins of the respective companies, so development costs have nothing to do with this.

Perhaps, but my goal was to try to put things into perspective. A lot of people see the hardware sales #'s and assume the PS2 is doing the best, or the GBA, or whatever. Such figures can be misleading. If people want to see "who's number 1" then they should see who has the highest profit margins. I just think people are getting confused by all the numbers and they are not really understanding them fully. That's all.

[Balthasar]

Perhaps, but my goal was to try to put things into perspective. A lot of people see the hardware sales #'s and assume the PS2 is doing the best, or the GBA, or whatever. Such figures can be misleading. If people want to see "who's number 1" then they should see who has the highest profit margins. I just think people are getting confused by all the numbers and they are not really understanding them fully. That's all.
I disagree completely. The idea is to get the most consoles in the most homes. Profitability of a company and their marketshare are two completely different things.

[TrackZero]

I disagree completely. The idea is to get the most consoles in the most homes. Profitability of a company and their marketshare are two completely different things.

Tell that to Sega. ;)

[Balthasar]

Tell that to Sega. ;)
Sega lacked both, thus they collapsed.

[Ultima Thulian]

I disagree completely. The idea is to get the most consoles in the most homes. Profitability of a company and their marketshare are two completely different things.

True, but a console is more likely to sell if it has good software, right? I realize profitability of a company and marketshare is two different things, but what I'm saying just because a company has a strong market share it doesn't necessarily mean that they are making the biggest profit and are considered "number one". Perhaps we can agree to disagree? :)