Blizzard Officially Apologizes for GLTB Incident

[Rakael]

It seems that Blizzard has officially apologized (http://news.com.com/2061-10797_3-6037002.html?part=rss&tag=6037002&subj=news) for its apparent discrimination against the homosexual community.

"Blizzard has stated that the original incident with Andrews never should have happened and that they will be reviewing policies and procedures," In Newsweekly reporter Alexander Sliwinski wrote, "and having 'sensitivity training' with their 1,000 GMs on staff in North America, Europe, and Korea in the hopes that something like this doesn't happen again."
Seems like its a bit forced, but at least they did apologize.

[BloodPack]

From what I understand this was kinda Blizzard just trying to protect the gay community from discrimination. Because when people go around saying look at me I am gay, then you get stupid kiddies being immature and making fun of them (and discrimination is againt the WOW rules).

I am not saying its the right thing to do, but Blizzard had good intentions to begin (sortive :S). But they apoligized so I guess all is better...

[Roc Ingersol]

No, Blizzard's policy was trying to save Blizzard from having to make potentially embarassing judgement calls. Otherwise, they'd have to judge whether someone was actually being harassed, or was being harassed because they went (political, sexuality, racial, etc) trolling. And individuals making individual judgement calls are bound to screw up eventually. So they put in a blanket "don't talk about stuff" policy.

They care much more about having a consistent policy that saves Customer Service time, than 'protecting' the players.

The only place I think they screwed up, was in taking so long to apologize.

[MosBen]

But on the other hand, discrimination is already not allowed in WoW. It doesn't make sense to me to ask gay people to hide their sexuality so as to avoid behavior which is already not allowed. If kiddies and morons break the rules and discriminate, let them be punished for it.

Still, nothing about this fiasco has led me to believe that Blizzard had bad intentions, and it's good that they appologized.

[Abednigo]

As long as they do diversity training like they did in The Office, the WoW community will be fine. If not, just put everyone's stapler in a jello mold. That'll teach em.

[PIPBoy3000]

I thought the original argument was a bit off (e.g. "You're saying things that others might object to, so don't say them"), so it's nice to hear they've come around on the issue. Free speech in a MMORPG is a touchy issue, so I have some sympathy for Blizzard's plight. Still, I'd think they'd want to foster groups that try to be inclusive and create a friendly play environment. It's simply good for business.

[bradlay]

If not, just put everyone's stapler in a jello mold. That'll teach em.

This is your solution to everything.

[Opty]

The original problem was they were advertising their guild in game in general chat using the ambiguous term "friendly." Then they pulled the homophobic card against Blizzard and you have thousands of people incorrectly saying Blizzard is discriminating against gays. They just didn't want them advertising in general chat and the internet blew it up into a big non-issue because the internet likes going after big companies for no reason. They were in the right originally: they don't let anyone advertise their guilds in game as "Christian" but they let them have Christian guilds. There were already plenty of gay guilds in existance and Blizzard didn't shut down this one either. They just said "take it outside of the game, please" and the guildmaster overreacted and started an internet coup against Blizzard for no reason besides the guildmaster is too sensitive and couldn't handle being told that real life issues don't belong in a game.

Also, for some reason when this topic pops up people go "Oh Blizzard hates gays because they don't do anything to stop people from using gay as a derogatory term." You know why they don't stop? Because not enough people report it. If every time someone used gay as a derogatory term everyone who read it reported the person, then they'd be punished. But no, people expect Blizzard to sit and read every line of chat that goes through their game and catch all of the people using gay in a bad way and then punish them.

The only reason Blizzard is apologizing is so people will shut up about it. They're probably not going to do anything internally except make their rules more explicit about what to do in such a case. They've probably lost tons of money from this stupid shit from dumbasses cancelling their accounts because they are told Blizzard hates gays and so they want to close the wound as soon as possible. I bet this whole mess didn't leave America but they mention other countries to look more sincere.

[jacktion]

From what I understand this was kinda Blizzard just trying to protect the gay community from discrimination. Because when people go around saying look at me I am gay, then you get stupid kiddies being immature and making fun of them (and discrimination is againt the WOW rules).

I am not saying its the right thing to do, but Blizzard had good intentions to begin (sortive :S). But they apoligized so I guess all is better...


I hear this argument frequently and I believe you are stating it in earnest so I will explain what the problem is with it.
You can't order a group to be silent and invisible to protect them from harassment. That is discrimination.
For example, you can't order black people to stay out of certain towns because racists live there. The racists have the problem, not the black people.
You can't run businesses in America and discriminate against people because they are born different. That is discrimination.
If WOW is serious about having their game be completely non-sexual, then why are they sponsoring a giant heterosexual Valentine's Day event?
This apology was inevitable. People called it out on the first day.
The disappointing thing is how many people here have sounded off against gay people. It is evident that people are still very biased and afraid of gayness. There is still a long way to go.

[Reanimated]

Seems like they took appropriate action here... FINALLY.

[Valkyrist]

And I still don't care.

It's a goddamn game, not a political forum. You're not going to see this article covered on the local/national news tonight. People are getting WAY too sensitive on BOTH sides of the aisle. Personally I'm disheartened that I can't even play a game without worrying about being politicly correct.

[Serapth]

God, looks like another facet of life just got smacked with the PC stick...

Sad.

[xcalibur]

As long as their policy is consistent then fine... if people can advertise in general chat for GLBT guilds, then I expet people to be allowed to advertise for guilds based on religion, politics, ethnicity, etc. as well.


-X

[Nite_Moogle]

You can't order a group to be silent and invisible to protect them from harassment. That is discrimination.
Discriminiation is also saying that if you don't like GBLT people you can't be in that guild. By apologizing Blizzard is making it OK for people and guilds to actively discriminate against other people in WoW.

[Abash Alarmist]

Discriminiation is also saying that if you don't like GBLT people you can't be in that guild. By apologizing Blizzard is making it OK for people and guilds to actively discriminate against other people in WoW.

The guild in question never said that they were only excepting people of the GLBT type. All they stated was that it was a GBLT friendly guild, anyone who wants to can join, whether they are GBLT or not. No discrimination from the guild, just the moronic GM.

[PacerDawn]

Free speech in a MMORPG is a touchy issue
There is nothing touchy about it, it doesn't exist. Blizzard isn't the government, and therefore the first amendment doesn't apply to them. They can make rules as to what people cannot say in their game and be completely within their rights to do so.

[Sl1pstream]

But, with this apology, they did admit the GM was wrong.

[Thenetcase]

I think that they were in the right the first time. But that's probably me just being a biggot (I said it for all you haters). LOL

-TNC-

[MosBen]

It boggles the mind that what used to be simply called being polite has morphed into the supposedly heavy burden of political correctness.

[yellowoystercult]

What Blizzard did was 100% right, although they didn't do it for the right reasons.

Games are a form of escapism. They are separate universes with different values, expectations, and methods of social interaction. The entire idea of playing an RPG is to play a role - but you are confined to the realities of the virtual world you're in. To add real-world elements to this world takes away the role-playing element; you're just yourself in a virtual form. Is there homosexuality in the world of Azeroth? If there's no mention of it in the official "lore," players need to leave it the hell alone.

I'm not saying players shouldn't try to shape the world for themselves, but to bring reality into it destroys the very point of the game. It's no longer an escape. It's just real life made of polygons.

[Abash Alarmist]

I think that they were in the right the first time. But that's probably me just being a biggot (I said it for all you haters). LOL

-TNC-

Atleast you admit it. Though you can't even spell it.

I'm not saying players shouldn't try to shape the world for themselves, but to bring reality into it destroys the very point of the game. It's no longer an escape. It's just real life made of polygons.

That really can't happen. In a theoretical place of perfect bliss yes. But people are going to bring in their real lives into a game every day, whether they are GLTB or not. The game is their for entertainment, not to completely forget or acknowledge their entire life/beliefs/idiologies; which is where the problem comes from. Because of people being bigots and non accepting bastards, then there are always going to be issues with people who are 'different'. Blizzard should of allowed them to create their guild. The people creating it are not the ones who did wrong, but rather the people mocking it should be punished for being assholes.

[Zeal]

Pretty much Blizzard just saying "Yeah, yeah..."

[Derella]

What Blizzard did was 100% right, although they didn't do it for the right reasons.

Games are a form of escapism. They are separate universes with different values, expectations, and methods of social interaction. The entire idea of playing an RPG is to play a role - but you are confined to the realities of the virtual world you're in. To add real-world elements to this world takes away the role-playing element; you're just yourself in a virtual form. Is there homosexuality in the world of Azeroth? If there's no mention of it in the official "lore," players need to leave it the hell alone.

I'm not saying players shouldn't try to shape the world for themselves, but to bring reality into it destroys the very point of the game. It's no longer an escape. It's just real life made of polygons.
Your post could be seen as somewhat valid, if World of Warcraft had enforced role-playing. It doesn't though. The vast majority of the players do not care about playing a role... They want to play a game.

"LF1M FOR UBRS RUN! FULL ON PALLIES!!!" disrupts the setting more than someone saying they are gay... It's easier to assume that there are gay people in Azeroth than it is to assume that everyone has developed secret code/acronyms in order to streamline the process of finding parties to kill General Drak for the 30th time.

[ElPresidente]

To anyone who says that these games are an escape and sexuality and other real world issues should be left at the door I say take a look at the chat that happens in these games once in a while. WoW is not a true RPG in so far as very few people actually RP (even on RP servers)... you can quite happily walk through taverns and hear people talking about TV shows and other real life things.

The argument simply doesn't hold because the real world is not left at the door, it is brought inside. The issue for gay and lesbian players is they are constantly confronted with cries of 'gay', 'poof' and so on... A GLTB guild offers a place for people who are gay in real life to be able to play the game with a group of people they can be sure wont be constantly bringing up their sexuality as an insult (even though in most cases it isn't aimed at them the situation is analogous to a game where the word 'nigger' was used with wild abandon, I can be sure there would be a lot of black people not comfortable playing in such an environment and with good reason). Considering the immaturity of your average MMO player I would say the existence of such a haven of play would come as welcome relief for those who just want to play the game and not have to put up with the biggoted rantings of a 13 year old boy who is only just working out what his erection is for.

*damnit... beaten to the punch on the reality argument by 2 minutes!!!!* :P

[Mason]

I hate to say I told you so...

Well no, I guess I don't.

[Serapth]

See theres really two groups in the world, and I really have two very diverse reaction depending on which group.

What ElPresidente just said is bang on the money. You play an online game or post in online message boards and you are going to see "gay, fag, dyke" etc ad naseum. If you looked at a guild as a place to find like minded people and thus sanctuary from ignorant asshats, all the power to you. This I applaud and agree with 110%.

The second type of people are the one that wave gayness in your face looking for a reaction. This is the crowd I hate. Frankly, I know a number of people that hate this crowd. Alot of the time these people are just crusaders looking to start a fight. They arent helping gays because they are galvanizing the community into either pro or anti gay people.

So, if this whole issue was a group of abused people looking for a sense of community, I throughly support them. However, if this was a group of crusaders looking for another fight, I despise them.

I hold the same belief in the real world. You want to be gay... sure, go ahead. Gay weddings... imho, thats up to each church to decide, but I believe gay "married" couples should have identical rights that married straight couples have. That said, there should be no such thing as Gay pride parades, etc. Same way I am anti racism but a black or spanish pride parade would piss me off. The same affirmative action pisses me off.

Thats the shitty part of our world, the middle ground seems non existant. The extremists on either side seem to be calling all the shots, and it sucks.

[gawaintheblind]

From what I understood, they didn't want any sort of sexual content on the public channel, period. No gay and lesbian, no furry, no scat freaks and no "giant boobies guild!" and who knows what else. I may be the minority, but I see where they are coming from, and I don't see anything wrong with it at all. A rule that states no sexual content in public channels seems to cover everything. Why is this even an issue?

Does it mean you can't have a gay and lesbian "friendly" guild? well, to put it bluntly, yes. thats exactly what it means. But the reason you cant have one, is because it sets precident for the "Cyb3r S3ktz0rz" guild to also exist. its not because its homosexual, but because its -sexual.

Now if such a rule is in place, and they aren't enforcing it on the "SecktsWithTrolzz" guild but they are enforcing it on your "homosexual friendly" guild, THEN you can claim descrimination.

the end. jezus.

[ElPresidente]

I see this argument raised a lot and it doesn't hold either. There is a big difference between a GLTB guild and a cyberstalkers guild. One is not promoting harmful actions against others and one is. Is the difference that difficult to see? It doesn't set any precedent for that all and to suggest that it does involves some rather skewiff reasoning.

What I see in a GLTB guild is an attempt to curb the effects of a particular problem in WoW that Blizzard is obviously having a lot of difficulty controling themselves.

I know the prevailing homophobia and general level of immaturity of players is one of the main reasons I don't play WoW anymore and have switched to a more mature community like that in EVE.

I would quite happily have joined a gay and lesbian friendly guild just to avoid all that bollocks and I'm a straight guy.

Or is it true that gay and lesbian players should just have to suffer because there are arseholes in the game? Somehow that doesn't seem right to me.

[Serapth]

Ok... I know this is a serious topic to you, and im trying to mature about it and all... but really...

I would quite happily have joined a gay and lesbian friendly guild just to avoid all that bollocks

COULDNT YOU HAVE PICKED BETTER WORDING!?!?! :D

[ElPresidente]

No I couldn't damnit!!! :D

[GoblinToe]

Seems like they took appropriate action here... FINALLY.


Agreed.

Glad to see one of my favorite game developers not adopt a policy of ignorance.

[Heretic Machine]

I agreed with Blizzard's original decision. Not because I have anything against the GLB community, but because I think it does imply discrimination against heterosexuals. You can say that they don't discriminate all you want, but until a see an S for Straight added to the name, then there is definetly something wrong, something that doesn't belong in a video game.

[MosBen]

GLBT groups are anti-straight in any way. I have many straight friends in GLBT groups. They're friendly to GLBTs, not exclusive to them.

[Derella]

Stonewall Champions(the largest WoW GLBT-friendly guild) has several straight members.

[Heretic Machine]

GLBT groups are anti-straight in any way. I have many straight friends in GLBT groups. They're friendly to GLBTs, not exclusive to them.

And I'm sure if I made a guild called "Straight-Sex0rs" we'd be real freindly to GLB too. The point is, if you have to single yourselves out, chances are you're excluding other people indirectly. And besides that, it has no place in a game like WoW to begin with.

[Abash Alarmist]

And I'm sure if I made a guild called "Straight-Sex0rs" we'd be real freindly to GLB too. The point is, if you have to single yourselves out, chances are you're excluding other people indirectly. And besides that, it has no place in a game like WoW to begin with.

Asinine. The main problem with all of this is the huge amounts of immaturity and bigotry that roam the Golden Plains of Azeroth.

[ElPresidente]

Indeed. There is no need for a straight friendly group since straight people are not being ostracised in WoW by the general populace. Keep in mind these groups form due to the context in which they exist.

To make a silly little extreme analogy...

There's no lesbian activist group for porn stars simply because the porn industry is not against women sleeping with women. Yes I'm being silly here but in the absence of bigotry people don't feel the need to rally against it.

And for the record straight sex is all over WoW, we don't recognise it because it is the norm. People rp'ing relationships between male and female characters IS bringing sex into the game, of course because it is the societal norm we don't even pick up on it. It is an outward statement about hetrosexuality just as much as the formation of a GBLF guild is an outward statement of gay/lesbian/bi sexuality... we just notice the later since they are a minority and outside of the 'societal norm' whatever that may be.

[gawaintheblind]

I disagree. I played WoW through beta and 6 or so months after (I think. I can't really remember, to be honest. More than 3 months and less than a year?) And other than the occasionally slip up with a misstell in the general channel, I didn't see one instance of a sexual related issue. Not one. Now, to quantify that, I didn't actively roleplay either. Not my thing. So I may not have been exposed to anyone playing relationships or whatnot. But I think that few people would have thought anything of two male or female characters RPing a relationship. You would have had the normal 12 year olds making an issue of it of course, but these are the same kids who make an issue out of the shape of somebody's sword or "night elf bewbs."

I don't think that's the issue here. I think the issue is that a guild was forcing their sexuality on a whole CHANNEL of people, who may or may not be roleplaying, or care. Were they doing it in a harmful way? No. Saying you are friendly to the gay and lesbian community is certainly not a bad thing. However, inadvertent or not, they were opening the doors to those same 12 year olds to do the same thing, except for whatever their active little minds came up with. In a game that has than many players, you do not get to pick and choose who gets to talk about sexual subjects and who does not. you just have to ban it all together and enforce that rule. There is simply no way to say "Ok, since you are just a guild who supports gay men, you're ok, but you are a guild in which everyone plays a rabid furry who has sex with furnature. You're out. sorry." because then the furries would be complaning about descrimination, and rightly so.

You either have ALL, or you have NONE. And in a game that young children play, you have NONE.

Im still confused as to why this is an issue.

[darkmoonz]

These issues are just weird to me...

While I will agree that yes, people do bring the real world into this, other than their sex (not sexual orientation), few personal aspects are brought with you into the game. Sure, you will occasionally read about some TV show, or Chuck Norris (shudder... barrens chat...), but I really dont know or care to know the sexual orientation of the people I play and interact with. It does not matter to me whether you are black, white, asian, gay, straight, whatever, I honestly do not care, just keep the aggro off of me while I am healing and you are cool in my book.

The other day in Azshera I ran across a person spamming general chat looking to "recruit" members for an "all black clan" (his exact wording)... I know that is a little off topic, but my point is this. You do not need to be looking for comfort or support from all of the bad things in your life in World of Warcraft. I do not go there to search for support and help for all the troubles I am going through. That, and sex, race, orientation, personal lifestyle choices, or whatever else do not factor into the game. Until I see Undercity being spammed with "LF straight\gay\white\whatever G for UBRS," I am not going to be too concerned with the personal out-of-game life of my fellow Horde members...

[jeffool]

I disagree. ... You either have ALL, or you have NONE. And in a game that young children play, you have NONE.

Im still confused as to why this is an issue.

Male Taureen /silly audio: "Homogenized? No way, I like the ladies!"
Female Dwarf /silly audio: "I like my ale like I like my men, dark and rich. "
Male Dwarf /silly audio: "I like my beer like I like my women, stout and bitter."

And let's not forget that the game has wedding dresses and tuxedos, so obviously Blizzard doesn't mind weddings. So sexuality is made 'into' the game. There can be no argument about that, sorry. And if role playing properly, there's nothing wrong with bringing up sexuality if your character is attracted/repulsed by another. (Anyone who's played D&D has one of 'those friends' who tries to hit on every NPC in the game and insists he gets to roll for his chance with them.) But a group of people saying "Hey, we won't call you a fag?" That deserves to be censored!

The only argument is if gay people should have equal rights, and I can imagine no reason as to why they shouldn't.

(And make no mistake, we're not talking about the laws in some "new world" where no other laws apply and Blizzard can do as they please. Azeroth is not a 'place', World of Warcraft is a 'service.')

[Jetherik]

I wonder, if I was playing on a Chinese server of WoW and I started advertising for a Democracy Guild, would I get in trouble?

[gawaintheblind]

Well, there is already a "government" in the game in the form of Thrall ruling the orcs, so you can't say its not already in the game. So in that case, you could definately claim descrimination.

[ElPresidente]

One thing people seem to be forgetting is that sexuality is not the same as sex. And a GBLF guild doesn't mean there will be sex talk, it simply means it is a place where you can play the game free from discriminatory language. Now if Blizzard were able to stop such discriminatory actions in WoW then there would be no need for such guilds. But at the moment you do have a highly homophobic gaming populace, I don't see why a gay person should have to put up with that shit... it isn't about sex. The GBLF guilds aren't bringing their sexuality into the game, their sexuality is already being used as a source of ridicule... it is there in the game and until Blizzard stomps it out there is a perfectly legitimate reason for these to be around.

To argue that it is inappropriate is akin to saying "Well if your town has a high crime rate then move." Why on Earth should one have to move because of the actions of others. Why should a gay person feel uncomfortable playing the game because a bunch of 12 year old mentally deficient morons (as opposed to the mentally blessed morons? Hmmm... should rethink that label :P) can't think of anything more worthwhile to say than "LOL!! U r a stupid fagzor!".

I don't have to hide my hetrosexuality in WoW, why should a gay person feel they should have to hide theirs.

Just remember the distinction between sexuality and sex. There are plenty of gay virgins in the world. They are gay but sex has yet to enter their lives. Attraction is not a dirty word these days is it?

Anyway I'll shuttup now. Methinks I'm starting to repeat myself. :D

[mister_slim]

The second type of people are the one that wave gayness in your face looking for a reaction. This is the crowd I hate. Frankly, I know a number of people that hate this crowd. Alot of the time these people are just crusaders looking to start a fight. They arent helping gays because they are galvanizing the community into either pro or anti gay people.
Can I assume that when in public with your significant other you never make any gesture that implies the two of you are in a heterosexual relationship?

[Heretic Machine]

And a GBLF guild doesn't mean there will be sex talk, it simply means it is a place where you can play the game free from discriminatory language.

So why isn't it just a guild with rules against discriminating against people? Why is it a guild specifically for GLB?

[jeffool]

It isn't. It's 'friendly' toward them, meaning not 'anti-' them. They weren't saying straight people couldn't join. And if I ever played WoW again, I'd definitely seek one out because often in multiplayer games that's the only way you can play without running into people who don't use prejudice language (against gay people, women, or other races.)

[Heretic Machine]

They weren't saying straight people couldn't join.

The KKK has no rule against black people joining their ranks.

It isn't. It's 'friendly' toward them, meaning not 'anti-' them.

Again, they could of just made a guild with a non-discrimination policy, which nearly every respectable guild has. This whole thing is one big gob of hippy bullshit. Not liberal, I'm a liberal, this is hippy bullshit.

[jeffool]

The KKK has no rule against black people joining their ranks.Liar. (I just looked it up on their site. They do.)
Again, they could of just made a guild with a non-discrimination policy, which nearly every respectable guild has.That's what they were trying to do. But Blizzard got their diapers in a bunch over the idea that someone would played their game may mention any sexuality other than heterosexulaity and it became an issue when it shouldn't have. And for that matter, it's not like we're talking a lawyer drafting legal documents. It's just some lady who wrote a guild ad for an internet forum. I think it's rather obvious that there was no harm meant toward anyone of any sexual orientation. Have you even read the original ad that started this? The offending statement read: "OZ is recruiting all levels ¦ We are not 'GLBT only,' but we are 'GLBT friendly'! (guilduniverse.com/oz)"

How is that even remotely offensive to anyone with an ounce of common sense?

This whole thing is one big gob of hippy bullshit. Not liberal, I'm a liberal, this is hippy bullshit.Funny, I've always thought myself a liberal. I'm starting to understand why so many people have began calling themselves 'progressive' and other things I previously thought silly.

[aversion2k]

The offending statement read: "OZ is recruiting all levels ¦ We are not 'GLBT only,' but we are 'GLBT friendly'! (guilduniverse.com/oz)"


I dont really care but shouldnt that go without saying? I mean, if they feel the need to point that out then shouldnt they also say "we accept straight people, and black people, and asian people, and disabled people etc etc.."
It would be easier if they just pointed out who they didnt accept :P
I cant imagine that there would be a guild that wouldnt accept people based on any of these things.

Although there were alot of "Australian's only" guilds on the server I used to play on.

[jeffool]

I cant imagine that there would be a guild that wouldnt accept people based on any of these things.It's not necessarily a matter of not accepting people, it's a matter of creating a guild that doesn't have the shit-talk with homosexual and racial slights. Are you saying that many (possibly most) guilds have no people that use homosexual slurs regularly? Just finding a pickup group usually nets someone who does, unless I had really really bad luck in finding groups. Hell, I don't know if I've ever seen an online game aside from Tetris (on Xbox Live) and Animal Crossing (DS) in which I don't see homosexual or racial slurs regularly.

Well, maybe Ultima Online initially back in the day. But even then it was there, just a slightly more rare thing.

[Taran Wanderer]

Again, they could of just made a guild with a non-discrimination policy, which nearly every respectable guild has. This whole thing is one big gob of hippy bullshit. Not liberal, I'm a liberal, this is hippy bullshit.

Ok, let's assume almost every respectable guild has this policy. I'm sure everyone one in each of those respectable guilds abides strictly by that policy. Riiiight.
Yes, those forming the guild could have simply repeated Blizzard's non-discrimination policy. But seeing how that policy works so well :rolleyes:, maybe they thought they'd be a little more specific in their recruiting.