Nintendo WiFi - The Difference

[Kamalot]

I've heard a lot of grumbling here at Evil Avatar about how Nintendo's online service, Nintendo WiFi handles friend codes. While none of my friends have ever complained once about friend codes, it was bemusing as to why the whole Friend Code issue rubbed people here the wrong way.

Lost Garden (http://lostgarden.com/2006/02/pick-your-game-community-virtual-or.html) has done an excellent writeup on the two different philosophies to playing online that emminate from Xbox Live and Nintendo WiFi.

Two philosophies
Are you forging new relationships or strengthening old ones? Xbox Live lets you meet new people and build a new community. Nintendo’s Wi Fi network works primarily off friend codes and assumes that you are playing with people that you already know. I’m simplifying things because there is certainly overlap here, but philosophically these are two different ways of building an online community.

Nintendo is saying “Hey, you already have friends. Play with them.” Implicit in this assumption is that there exists a world outside the virtualized game community. In order to have friends outside gaming, you must have a life outside of gaming.

So pick one. Do you want live on society’s edge and build your own community? Or do you want to game mostly with your existing friends?
Maybe it makes sense that people here, on an Internet message board, are interested in meeting new people and handing out with 'strangers'. This begs the question though, what do the majority of gamers want? Personally, I avoid Live because I don't like listening to foul-mouth 13-year olds. If you are friendly enough for me to invite into my living room, then we'll swap friend codes. If I wouldn't want you sharing my sofa, then get outta my game.

As always, a great and thoughtful read from Lost Garden.

[bapenguin]

Thing is, you get BOTH on Live while you are stuck with one option on Wi-Fi. I have a friends list loaded with a lot of my real world friends. We play regularly, talk regularly. No trash talking 13 year olds. It's a blast.

I also have a bunch of friends on my list from this site, a lot of you I've never met. I've had some great gaming sessions with everyone.

But, that's part of the reason Live is a pay service. It's not just a bare bones something.

Don't get me wrong, the Wi-Fi thing is fine and serves it purpose. But it does have it's flaws. For instance on Monday a few of us tried to play MK online. I let my DS search for a game with friends for 20 minutes before giving up. Like I said before, the whole friend code thing seems so 1994. It's like when you tried to play a MUD on a BBS. You had to coordinate with your buddy through other means of communication to get things going. I don't want to have to do that all the time. I wanna turn on X system and play Y game and know my buddy is online and available to play that game too.

It's kinda funny though, because with Animal Crossing and whatnot everyone is posting their friend codes everywhere. It's not even following that model you mention.

[outontheporch]

Well, this doesn't really work for me. I mean, I have alot of friends, but not many of them play video games. So, it would be neat if you could find some games in picto chat lobbies or something with the DS, because I'm always looking for opponents, and people that I know are good matches that I can challenge again later.

[jeffbax]

Whenever I play on live its usually with people I know in real life, or fellow former goers... not the loud 13 year old asshat.

I don't see why XBL is limited to just poon-faced kids.

[Kelegacy]

None of my friends own DS's so a hub-like service to discover new players would be great. Friend Codes are fine and dandy...if you have friends that own the same system as you. Many of my buddies are just casual gamers who leech off my devices.

And friend codes suck when you have to obtain a new one for each game you buy. I'd like to have just one (like, a nickname) and be done with it.

[dotbomb]

Wait wait... there are people on live that don't cuss? Sign me up!

There are pros and cons to both systems. I haven't used the wifi feature much on the DS yet though. Maybe I'll start going that route with mario kart while I tend to my son in the bath (he plays with his toys a half an hour and I play with mine).

[agentgray]

Not all of my friends play online or videogames for even that matter.

Those that I do know are here on EA. So, yeah, we fit the WFC mentality of share with your friends. However, there is no mechanism for me to do that within the system. I have to come here at EA's expense and share the code (and also at the expense of AC kiddies). I have to do this for every WFC game for every player. Metroid cannot be like this. Never. Ever.

Now for Live I just add their gamertag to my list and they are there for every game.

There's a difference in two of those three "every's"

I want a browsing service or something that let's me meetup easily. For Pete's sake, the DS has a mic and speaker, VOIP is a possibility. (I know about the patent).

I'd like to pick up and just play some MKDS, but even browsing with the "Worldwide" settings I sit there for a very long time.

[CapnBob]

I understand why Nintendo chose the friend code route... it means their butts are pretty much covered as far as incidents like perverts contacting young children through games are concerned. But it definitely comes at the expense of convenience. Like Bapenguin said, however, I am much more annoyed by the matchmaking engine in MarioKart. It is excessively inefficient and sometimes incapable of linking people who have added each other as friends already. Still, Animal Crossing already seems to be an improvement in terms of establishing a connection with friends, so I'm hoping future games like Tetris and Metroid Hunters don't have the same issue.

[Blade]

Nintendo's WiFi service in MK:DS is clearly flawed but can thankfully evolve in future WiFi-compatible games.

Nintendo's online service is quite simply a living document. Don't be surprised if Nintendo adopts gamertags for Revolution multiplayer.

[Roc Ingersol]

Nintendo went with friend codes because it's the easiest way to give most parents that warm-fuzzy feeling about their kid taking his gameboy online. I doubt they gave any weight to social philosophy.

That aside: sure, I've got RL friends.
Some of them even game.
Of the gamers, some of them like the same types of games I do.
But to only game with my friends who like to game, who like the games i like, only when their free time lines up with my free time? No thanks.

I like having the choice. RL friends, OL friends, random strangers.
Live lets me game with whom I choose, when I choose. It works for me.

[Cubfan]

The Japanese are afraid of strangers.

[Kamalot]

The Japanese are afraid of strangers.
You know, I read about this. I read that online gaming is not very popular in Japan because most online gamers are considered rude, and who wants to go online and be subjected to rude people?

This would make sense, an online model that is safe for parents and culturally sensitive for the Japanese market.

[KidCactus]

I understand why Nintendo chose the friend code route... it means their butts are pretty much covered as far as incidents like perverts contacting young children through games are concerned.
Not really, since those kids post their friend codes on forums instead, for everyone to see and use.

[Cubfan]

Not really, since those kids post their friend codes on forums instead, for everyone to see and use.

Yep I had my 9 year old nephew over for the weekend and had to help him make a 'friend' on the IGN forums so he could do the town visiting thing in AA:WW. Though he did need my help, and therefore I was able to supervise. It's not as if he could click a button in-game to connect with random people.

[Evil Dude]

Maybe the parent or supervisor are too dumb to take away the communicator so their young one can't talk to stranger over xblive.

Also it's the parent own fault for not muting voice chat.

At least xbox live provide constant number of players out there. No need to worry about looking for who & such.

[Draft]

Yeah, lost garden is great, but he's off base. Live does both, Nintendo wi-fi kind of sucks (but at least the price is right.)

[trip1eX]

ON xbox Live I mostly used the 'net to meet anonymous gaming buds and to join leagues and clans and arrange times to game. I did very little adding of Xbox Live strangers to my friends list.

IT's the same on the pc.

So Nintendo's codes don't change much for me. I think Nintendo could make the meeting up with friends thing easier. On MK:Ds it should be easier to game with specific buds. And you need some communication options with friends. IN AC it would be interesting if you could visit the strangers' towns, but what I really want is the ability to visit the towns of friends when they aren't online. That would help eliminate any desire to visit stranger's towns and it would be more interesting. This is needed because often you can't get together at the same time with a friend, but at least you could talk about each other's towns at a later date.

Anyway it's sort of an apples vs oranges comparison. The whole free vs pay service as well as the fact you're comparing a handheld to a console. I kind of assume a handheld won't have as robust of online options.

[ackbrack]

what I really want is the ability to visit the towns of friends when they aren't online. That would help eliminate any desire to visit stranger's towns and it would be more interesting. This is needed because often you can't get together at the same time with a friend, but at least you could talk about each other's towns at a later date.

Correct me if I'm wrong: doesn't your friend have to have the DS powered on for you to be able to connect to their town? Further, I can't really see how you would be able to access someone else's town if they're not online, when all of the data pertaining to their town is stored in their copy of the game and not on some persistent server.

[Achilles]

Thing is, you get BOTH on Live while you are stuck with one option on Wi-Fi. I have a friends list loaded with a lot of my real world friends. We play regularly, talk regularly. No trash talking 13 year olds. It's a blast.I was thinking the same thing. Also if someone tells you their gamer tag in person (as in, not over an IM or some other in-game chat) you can often remember it without writing it down, because it's (usually) actual words.

EDIT: Come to think of it, they probably did codes instead of words because that way people couldn’t make profane or offensive names. And they probably don’t keep it across all games because that would require some kind of back-end service which they would have to maintain. The way they're doing it makes it cheap enough to run where it would be free like they want it to be.

[nonchalance]

None of my friends own DS's so a hub-like service to discover new players would be great. Friend Codes are fine and dandy...if you have friends that own the same system as you. Many of my buddies are just casual gamers who leech off my devices.

And friend codes suck when you have to obtain a new one for each game you buy. I'd like to have just one (like, a nickname) and be done with it.

Quoted for truth, except replace 'casual gamers' with 'PC gamers'.

[trip1eX]

Correct me if I'm wrong: doesn't your friend have to have the DS powered on for you to be able to connect to their town? Further, I can't really see how you would be able to access someone else's town if they're not online, when all of the data pertaining to their town is stored in their copy of the game and not on some persistent server.

Well very good. YOu win a cookie. And I think you just answered your own question and it's called a persistent server.

[benig]

I have only had good experiences with Nintendo Wi-Fi personally. While the Friend Code system is pretty asinine, it actually ends up working pretty well. Playing Mario Kart with random people is quick, easy and amazingly fun. Setting up a match takes no more then a minute for me even during the afternoon. Animal Crossing is a beast that really could use the community aspect, but being a member of several message boards allows me to create my own little community. For a Freshman effort, I really respect what Nintendo has done in such a short time. I hope they refine the online experience, however, with the Revolution. Viva!

[DarkEternal]

Yes, Live is better. But there are two things. The first is that the Xbox is a home console and the DS is a handheld. You can't expect them to be doing the exact same things. Also, the second is that, for all that NWFC costs, it actually works.

[Hellstorm]

"The first thing I noticed is that the lobby system in Hunters is great. Unlike Mario Kart DS, you can choose when to stop looking for opponents and start the action. It took no time at all for Rufus and I to be off and running."

From a NOA beta tester on Metroid: Hunters. They are clearly making steps to improve the experiance.

[Heretic Machine]

Why is Nintendo telling me what I should be doing with my free time? Why aren't I being given more options, options given to me by every other online gaming service?

You want to play only with your friends? No one is stopping you. But what about those of us who want to play a lot more, or at times when our friends are busy? There is no justification for Nintendo Connect, it's a sad piece of junk inferior to everything else on the market. Gamespy Arcade is free too, and it supports all of the standard features that should be supported by an online gaming service.

As far as I'm concerned, if Nintendo doesn't fix their service, then they really shouldn't even be considered as having an online service. It would be like me pissing into a bottle, slapping a price tag on it, and saying that I am the head of a soft drink company.

[Babbster]

I think the problem with Nintendo's WiFi system so far is that they haven't figured out which games need to be limited to friends and which ones don't. Animal Crossing absolutely needs the control offered by the friend codes because if every Tom, Dick and Hiro can come into a person's town there are inevitably going to be dicks who think it's funny to screw the town up (whacking down trees, running through flowers, cleaning out shops, etc.). I suppose they could limit what people could do while visiting but then there's no reason to visit in the first place. With the friend codes, at least you can easily ban someone if they wander in and screw with you.

Games like Mario Kart and [the upcoming WiFi-enabled] Tetris, though, should allow both anonymous and friend-code play, perhaps with an additional ban list (to weed out disconnecters and other cheaters/poor sports). After all, it's not like you're going to have time to "talk" while playing these kinds of fast-paced games (since Nintendo hasn't gone the voice route yet) anyway.

My only online DS game so far is Animal Crossing, so I'm pretty well pleased with the system. I suspect I'd feel differently if I was into "The Kart."

[agentgray]

Yes, Live is better. But there are two things. The first is that the Xbox is a home console and the DS is a handheld. You can't expect them to be doing the exact same things. Also, the second is that, for all that NWFC costs, it actually works.
Of course I can expect them to.

Have you been to the WFC site lately? Nintendo is VERY MUCH Big Brother when it comes to WFC play. They track everything.

The can even record your gameplay...and it might even show up on thier site.

If they can track all that, they can put in a browser or even low quality voice chat.

[bean19]

Friend codes suck.

[Lord Dongkey]

...

Xbox live - costs money.

WFC - free.

Xbox live - obnoxious shitsacks annoy me

WFC - free. Obnoxious shitsacks don't babble at me and require muting.

Xbox live - Has anonymous connecting service with persisitant servers to allow non-title specific gamertags, gamertags in general, etc

WFC - free.

Xbox live - clans, groups, community, let's you start with no friends and build a virtual world where a 53 year old man swears to GOD he's a 18 year old blonde hotty (or wait, was that Everquest?!)

WFC - free.

...


Xbox live - Apples

WFC - Oranges


That being said, continue your running in circles, gents.

[Heretic Machine]

...

Xbox live - costs money.

WFC - free.

Xbox live - obnoxious shitsacks annoy me

WFC - free. Obnoxious shitsacks don't babble at me and require muting.

Xbox live - Has anonymous connecting service with persisitant servers to allow non-title specific gamertags, gamertags in general, etc

WFC - free.

Xbox live - clans, groups, community, let's you start with no friends and build a virtual world where a 53 year old man swears to GOD he's a 18 year old blonde hotty (or wait, was that Everquest?!)

WFC - free.

...


Xbox live - Apples

WFC - Oranges


That being said, continue your running in circles, gents.

Gamespy Arcade: Free, and still supports most of the features touted by XBOX Live.

Xfire: Free, and still supports most of the features touted by XBOX Live.

What does this mean? XBOX Live should be free, and Nintendo Connect shouldn't fucking exist.

[Kamalot]

You want to play only with your friends? No one is stopping you. But what about those of us who want to play a lot more, or at times when our friends are busy?
If you want to play a game like Mario Kart when your friends are busy, simply connect online and find people to play with. There is a big freaking button that reads, "Kick Some Stranger's Ass At Mario Kart". Press it. Victims will show up.

99% of the people in the world wouldn't know what a server browser is or what a good ping time should be. You know what? They SHOULDN'T HAVE TO!

What do you need to do when you connect online?

*) Play with my friends
*) Play with strangers

DONE!

I don't see what the big deal is and why people have such a shitty attitude about it.

[Achilles]

Xbox live - clans, groups, community, let's you start with no friends and build a virtual world where a 53 year old man swears to GOD he's a 18 year old blonde hotty (or wait, was that Everquest?!)That was Everquest, the voice chat would let you know he's not an 18 year old hotty, unless you're talking about a hot guy, in which case he may be able to trick you.

[Heretic Machine]

If you want to play a game like Mario Kart when your friends are busy, simply connect online and find people to play with. There is a big freaking button that reads, "Kick Some Stranger's Ass At Mario Kart". Press it. Victims will show up.

Ok, I'm looking for that button in Animal Crossing DS, the second big Nintendo Connect title, and I can't find it. Do you know where it is? :confused: