New Xbox360 Game To Require HDD To Play

[dmgr]

While not an a-list game, Football Manager 2006 will REQUIRE an HDD in order to play the game, no memory cards allowed! Guess MS lied! Check out the packshot at the link which says HDD required!

http://www.gamersreports.com/news/1258/

Evil's Note: I checked. The logo and image are real. They were released by Sega today.

[bapenguin]

<Homer Simpson> DOH! </Homer Simpson>

[fitbabits]

Uh-oh! It's getting a little hot around here...

This better make the trip Stateside.

[Atorak]

*car crash*

[rein]

wow! dmgrs first post is a news story instead of begging for a code. good job ;)


I am sure someone will find a way to defend this and say we all misunderstood what Microsoft meant when they said no games would require a hard drive to play. Heck, maybe they didn't say it at all. I am sure one of Major Nelsons nut monkeys will come in and clear it up for us.

[Mortis]

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000CPZNPU.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Amazon UK has the box image without the HDD logo, the one linked in the article could be fake.

[Cool AN]

I said it would come back to haunt them, but no one listened.

[zyzyx]

There's absolutely no way in hell they could make Football Manager without the hard drive. I'm not gonna stand up and say it's right or wrong. Just so long as everyone's clear that it's not a 'hard drive or not' decision but a 'game or not' one.

[Demo_Boy]

Perhaps the dev had assumed that the HDD would be included in the system and they just didnt write removable media support into the sku, since its not AAA then the publisher wouldnt offer any extra $$$ to add it at the end. Somehow they got approval by MS lot check, perhaps they had an ancient letter from a MS exec to them directly saying that the 360 would have an hd.
And here we are.

[Major Dan]

FF XI -- this has all ready happened, or is going to. I never really believed it any way, there will be few games, then quite a few and then many that will need the HDD only over the life of the 360, people who got the Core will need to buy one eventually and people who got the Premium will probably have to upgrade eventually too.

But I know I will keep plugging along to play so it don't bother me too much. ;)

[KidCactus]

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000CPZNPU.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Amazon UK has the box image without the HDD logo, the one linked in the article could be fake.

Play.com (http://play.com/play247.asp?pa=srmr&page=title&r=X360&title=719185) say "Specifications Please Note: Requires XBox 360 hard drive to play", even though they show the the box without the HDD logo.

[RichardTowler]

Sega sent out a messag over a week ago now, saying the box art was to be replaced with one that added the HD required logo.

[Akeldama]

There's no conspiracy here.

Sega released a packshot a few weeks ago via Gamespress saying that another version was pending with the "requires HDD" logo. It was already known it was going to happen.

Today Sega released the new packshot with the logo. So yes, some sources will have the older image, but it was known that the new iamge with the HDD stipulation was coming later.

[fitbabits]

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000CPZNPU.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Amazon UK has the box image without the HDD logo, the one linked in the article could be fake.
Magnifying the picture leads me to believe that it's fake. Look at the overlap between the sleeve and the HDD Required logo. Looks very odd.

[Kelegacy]

Ouch. 2 SKUs is always stupid. Fucks the consumers over. Hope no Core owners want to play this.

[Heretic Machine]

There's absolutely no way in hell they could make Football Manager without the hard drive. I'm not gonna stand up and say it's right or wrong. Just so long as everyone's clear that it's not a 'hard drive or not' decision but a 'game or not' one.

And Microsoft said that if it came down to a "game or not" decision, then there would be no game. That's what they said. Once shit like this starts happening, it opens the floodgates for other developers to run on through with hard-drive only games. Hell, Microsoft could sell plenty of hard-drives to Core users if they get a few AAA titles as requiring a hard-drive. So in the end, the Core user is getting fucked over by Microsoft just as many people predicted that they would.

This is why I don't have brand loyalty anymore.

[asder]

It's not a fake, the new cover (with the HDD logo) was released by Sega Europe today.

[lowlevel]

Magnifying the picture leads me to believe that it's fake. Look at the overlap between the sleeve and the HDD Required logo. Looks very odd.

Sega Europe says: (http://www.sega-europe.com/en/Game/231.htm)
Football Manager 2006 on Xbox 360 brings with it all the features enjoyed by fans of the PC game - that includes everything from FM 2005 and all the updates and improvements of FM 2006 - with an enhanced, redesigned interface to make it console perfect.

Hundreds of divisions across 50 countries are playable, with 270,000 real-world players and staff to work with. Enjoy fully-featured player training, FM's famous 2D match engine, full rules for all leagues and player data accurate to the end of the winter transfer window.

With FM 2006 your TV's no longer just for watching football, now you can conquer it!

Please note: This is a hard-drive-only game.

So the image might be a rushed Photoshop job for the web retailers, but the fact is, it requires a HDD. Disappointing to be sure.

[Grifter]

Honestly, who fucking cares? Any serious gamer is going to eventualy have the hard drive anyway. No matter what MS says we all know that there will be atleast 5 AAA titles throughout the life of the 360 that will require the hard drive, most will be MMO's.

[fitbabits]

So the image might be a rushed Photoshop job for the web retailers, but the fact is, it requires a HDD. Disappointing to be sure.
Ah, that explains it then! Thanks for the head's-up.

[Lord Dongkey]

Honestly, who fucking cares? Any serious gamer is going to eventualy have the hard drive anyway. No matter what MS says we all know that there will be atleast 5 AAA titles throughout the life of the 360 that will require the hard drive, most will be MMO's.

"Serious gamer", yes, but how many "casual gamers", that thought saving $100 was a safe bet on a core system, are going to be pissed off about this/estranged from the 360, assuming this trend continues?

Elitism is all well and good, but you end up getting thoroughly fucked if you try to hide in an elitist niche bubble when it comes to an industry as large/growing as video games. No matter what MS says, yeah, there's going to be HDD required games, but each one of them runs the risk of further hurting Microsoft's market share with the casual gamer market - those who bought the core system.

[rjcc]

"Serious gamer", yes, but how many "casual gamers", that thought saving $100 was a safe bet on a core system, are going to be pissed off about this/estranged from the 360, assuming this trend continues?

Elitism is all well and good, but you end up getting thoroughly fucked if you try to hide in an elitist niche bubble when it comes to an industry as large/growing as video games. No matter what MS says, yeah, there's going to be HDD required games, but each one of them runs the risk of further hurting Microsoft's market share with the casual gamer market - those who bought the core system.

How many "casual gamers" are buying football manager?

[dmgr]

Not fake, just old cover art: Sega themselves said it:

Football Manager 2006 on Xbox 360 brings with it all the features enjoyed by fans of the PC game - that includes everything from FM 2005 and all the updates and improvements of FM 2006 - with an enhanced, redesigned interface to make it console perfect.

Hundreds of divisions across 50 countries are playable, with 270,000 real-world players and staff to work with. Enjoy fully-featured player training, FM's famous 2D match engine, full rules for all leagues and player data accurate to the end of the winter transfer window.

With FM 2006 your TV's no longer just for watching football, now you can conquer it!


Please note: This is a hard-drive-only game.

Thx :)

[Grifter]

Again most of the people who know anything about gaming will have a HD eventually rather they bought the core or not. The "casual gamers" wont really care. It is not an elitest thing.

[CrashCart]

And Microsoft said that if it came down to a "game or not" decision, then there would be no game. That's what they said. Once shit like this starts happening, it opens the floodgates for other developers to run on through with hard-drive only games. Hell, Microsoft could sell plenty of hard-drives to Core users if they get a few AAA titles as requiring a hard-drive. So in the end, the Core user is getting fucked over by Microsoft just as many people predicted that they would.

Don't have a 360 yet, but will probably get one sometime in the future. Regardess, I've always wondered why you would get a downgraded Core unit (wired controllers, no HDD). I guess $100 is a big deal, though with games being 60 bucks each, this thing is a serious investment either way.

In any event, I don't know that this is really "opening the floodgates." I mean, how many games absolutely would require a hard drive to play? Sure, games that have content constantly evolving like stats and the like would benefit from a HDD, but to downright require it? I don't know. Not having any console with a HDD at this point, I can't really say how many games I've missed out on that have had this strict requirement. But is it really that bad?

[rein]

How many "casual gamers" are buying football manager?


Not to speak for the Lord Dongkey but I think he was referring to the point that grifters said "...we all know that there will be at least 5 AAA titles throughout the life of the 360 that will require the hard drive". At least that is the way I read it.

The thing that matters is Microsoft bold-face lied to the public before releasing the console. It's not a good thing no matter how anyone wants to spin it. Be honest, if Nintendo or Sony pulls this you will be all over it. I am sure Sony will give plenty of opportunity.

[Lord Dongkey]

So what happens when the next iteration of Halo comes out, and then a month down the road they need to patch it to balance multiplayer/fix bugs/etc... or when a pigskin football type manager game comes out (i.e. American Football) and you have to have a HDD to play it... or when an MMO comes out that has mass appeal, or even general appeal, or one of a hundred other issues MS has gotten themselves into with this HDD situation?

I think we're looking at different definitions of casual gamer. People who don't know a damned thing about the market and just like to buy/play games (i.e. the people still clueless enough to reserve games at places like GameStop where they sell your reserved shit to other people) make up a pretty sizeable % of the industry as a whole. My point isn't that casual gamers are going to get pissed because football manager requires a HDD, but rather, if the requiring a HDD trend continues, there's a decent chance it's going to offend the people that bought the core system with the understanding that the HDD would never be required. Since MS blatently stated that.

Edit: and another thought... how many people are buying the core system because they can't find the fancy one in stock?

More editing: I can't fucking spell. woot.

[peeweejd]

wow. this is a big deal. I wonder if they are going to try to kill off the "core" system.

[Mortis]

Not fake, just old cover art: Sega themselves said it:

Football Manager 2006 on Xbox 360 brings with it all the features enjoyed by fans of the PC game - that includes everything from FM 2005 and all the updates and improvements of FM 2006 - with an enhanced, redesigned interface to make it console perfect.

Hundreds of divisions across 50 countries are playable, with 270,000 real-world players and staff to work with. Enjoy fully-featured player training, FM's famous 2D match engine, full rules for all leagues and player data accurate to the end of the winter transfer window.

With FM 2006 your TV's no longer just for watching football, now you can conquer it!


Please note: This is a hard-drive-only game

Ah I see, quite confusing with different art being released. How many people will actually buy this anyhow? MS may have been dishonest but I don't think it is a big deal until a AAA title is HDD only.

[Major Dan]

"Serious gamer", yes, but how many "casual gamers", that thought saving $100 was a safe bet on a core system, are going to be pissed off about this/estranged from the 360, assuming this trend continues?

Elitism is all well and good, but you end up getting thoroughly fucked if you try to hide in an elitist niche bubble when it comes to an industry as large/growing as video games. No matter what MS says, yeah, there's going to be HDD required games, but each one of them runs the risk of further hurting Microsoft's market share with the casual gamer market - those who bought the core system.
You know what though? People will not mind dropping $100 8 months after the initial purchase so much, especially if it is a game they really want. Yes, they are getting screwed but it is too late, you all ready bought in so you just do it.

[Ailer]

wow. this is a big deal. I wonder if they are going to try to kill off the "core" system.

I don't know about that. I had always assumed the "premium" set was gonna only be for the early adopters, and everyone else would have to buy all the extras themselves. Makes much better money that way too.

[Mason]

So what's the deal with this game that keeps it from serializing itself to a 64mb memory card? I think I missed something here.

MMOs are one thing, no one should shed a tear if those require HDDs. But unless there's an astounding technical reason that there was zero potential for having this game work on a core system, this is total crap. The dual SKU thing was barely tolerable, so long as every standard game worked on both systems. But if MS isn't enforcing that, they've just screwed a huge amount of their customer base.

We need more details on this before we can bust out the torches and pitchforks, but if more games come out as HDD-required for shitty reasons, Nintendo and Sony will have to work very hard to top MS for ownership of the Lie of the Generation award.

[Ailer]

Lie of the Generation award? I like the sounds of that one. So what was the lie of the 'last generation'? Toy story modeled in real time?

[rein]

You know what though? People will not mind dropping $100 8 months after the initial purchase so much, especially if it is a game they really want. Yes, they are getting screwed but it is too late, you all ready bought in so you just do it.

If this is true, then explain why add-ons never work out that well for consoles. It is a mistake to split your own market like that. Microsoft's stupidity started with the dual sku and they are going to come full circle on it now by alienating one of the skus.

I think if Microsoft had done away with the dual sku idea, either had full backward compatibility or none at all, and had enough units on hand, they would definitely be in a position to take on Sony. Live Arcade and some good titles would have given them a serious boost. However, from the start they have done nothing but confused customers. K.I.S.S.

[Roc Ingersol]

'Peripheral required' is not something that's new or particularly consumer unfriendly. People have dealt with it before.

The only story here, is that MS said it wouldn't happen with the 360 HD. And that was just a dumb, dumb thing to say.

[Dakar]

Wow that's pretty crappy.

They tell anyone who'll listen that no game will ever require and HD and not 6 months after launch there's a game that requires an HD.

I wonder if Sega ever even hid the fact they were at least leaning towards making the HD required for the game, and whether MS knew about it when they were shouting that games would never require an HD.

[rjcc]

If this is true, then explain why add-ons never work out that well for consoles. It is a mistake to split your own market like that. Microsoft's stupidity started with the dual sku and they are going to come full circle on it now by alienating one of the skus.

I think if Microsoft had done away with the dual sku idea, either had full backward compatibility or none at all, and had enough units on hand, they would definitely be in a position to take on Sony. Live Arcade and some good titles would have given them a serious boost. However, from the start they have done nothing but confused customers. K.I.S.S.


This is silly. You're really suggesting that instead of at least trying on backwards compatibility, they should have not had any at all (full backwards compatibility wasn't a feasible option, I'm sure you know that and why). Yeah, lets CUT features, thats a great idea.

This football manager we're talking about, not Madden. Does it go against what Microsoft said earlier? seems to. Is it an incredibly big deal? I don't think so, but I didn't buy my 360 to play football manager, maybe someone who did can answer that for us.

[Chimpbot]

Ouch. 2 SKUs is always stupid. Fucks the consumers over. Hope no Core owners want to play this.

You make it sound like it's utterly impossible for the Core unit to have a hard drive.
I have the Core unit and got a hard drive separately; I actually wanted to get a 360 in a timely manner and wireless controllers weren't exactly a priority. The only thing I missed out of the Premium package was the headset. It's looking like I spent exactly $20 more than somebody who got the Premium set.

Anyway...

I, for one, didn't believe the whole, "no game will ever require the HDD" schtick they were shilling; it's not only illogical, but foolish to think that they wouldn't utilize the HDD to its fullest capacity. Hell, it's what really made the original XBox a viable choice in my opinion; it allowed for new content and fixes to be applied to games well after they had been released...and they could be acquired with relative ease.

Sure, they out-and-out lied to the public. I don't really care at this point.

[Dr Quincy]

But can it satisfy me sexually, Ken? Hmm?

[bapenguin]

We knew FFXI was going to require the hard drive a while go. No shocker here.

The whole core thing was just so MS could say they launched at 299. Stupid mistake. What did Peter Moore say the Premium to Core ratio was right now? 10:1 or something like that?

I'd rather they just phased the stupid core system out.

[fitbabits]

But can it satisfy me sexually, Ken? Hmm?
Wrong thread, Doc! :)

[Grifter]

I know, I should agree with rein, Lord Dongkey and the rest about how screwd up it is to say "you wont need a hard drive to play games" then allow games to be released that require the hard drive to play but I just don't care.

Maybe it's because I have a HD or maybe because I think the games would be better if they required a hard drive or just deep down I subconciasly (spelling?) knew that this would happen so it's not a suprise. But I just don't feel it's that big of a deal.

[Cyrano]

Wow, THAT didn't take long. Bunch of fucking liars. First, all 360s will have a hard drive; then only some 360s have hard drives, but it's not required; now it's required for some games. Microsoft really gives Sony a run for it's money as far as fibbing goes.

[*Legion*]

MOST Xbox 360s are Premium units. That didn't happen by accident.

Core systems are a minority by design. They exist so that MS can claim the Xbox 360 to sell at $299. They also have a very, very simple upgrade path - buy the HDD (I see 'em in stores all the time now) and snap it on.

It may seem obvious in hindsight, but the idea of the external HDD wasn't portability of save games (a nice but rarely used feature). It was to make the upgrade from Core to full system a snap (literally).

I think the only thing MS is really guilty of is not being up-front enough about the future existence of HDD-only games, though anyone with eyes could see it coming.

I would have preferred only one version of the 360 (please, don't say "SKU", this isn't a warehouse), but if MS absolutely HAD to have a cheaper non-HDD system to sell, then they did it pretty much in the best possible way for everyone else: make the systems much rarer, and make the upgrade hardware easy to find and brain-dead simple to install.

[rein]

This is silly. You're really suggesting that instead of at least trying on backwards compatibility, they should have not had any at all (full backwards compatibility wasn't a feasible option, I'm sure you know that and why). Yeah, lets CUT features, thats a great idea.

OK, I will give them that one. If this was the only confusing thing about picking up a 360 they could probably get away with it.

Right now customers (Casual gamers/parents that Microsoft is trying to attract to the 360) are very confused with the product. You can tell me I am wrong but I am not. I deal with them every day. I hear the questions and see the puzzled looks on their face when you go through their list of questions. People who are trying to spend money do not like to be confused when doing it.

This football manager we're talking about, not Madden. Does it go against what Microsoft said earlier? seems to. Is it an incredibly big deal? I don't think so, but I didn't buy my 360 to play football manager, maybe someone who did can answer that for us.

Do you have some inside information that this is the only title that will require the hard drive? Wait, it and FFXI? If so, I agree. If not, you are just being ignorant.

[Sl1pstream]

Wow, THAT didn't take long. Bunch of fucking liars. First, all 360s will have a hard drive; then only some 360s have hard drives, but it's not required; now it's required for some games. Microsoft really gives Sony a run for it's money as far as fibbing goes.

Let's make a game that requires a hard drive. But wait, once it's released, we'll stop selling hard drives.

[Achilles]

I’m less concerned about lies than I am about getting the best game possible. And having some games that don’t work without the harddrive is fine by me if it allows those games to be better.

[rjcc]

Do you have some inside information that this is the only title that will require the hard drive? Wait, it and FFXI? If so, I agree. If not, you are just being ignorant.

It's the only other title we know of right now. I don't deal in specualtion and conjecture , because its impossible for me to say. My point is if we WERE talking about Madden or Halo or (insert AAA title here) then it would be a big deal. But it's not, if it ever is, we can talk about it.

[Dr Quincy]

Wrong thread, Doc! :)

I tried to delete, honest to God I did.

[rein]

It's the only other title we know of right now. I don't deal in specualtion and conjecture , because its impossible for me to say. My point is if we WERE talking about Madden or Halo or (insert AAA title here) then it would be a big deal. But it's not, if it ever is, we can talk about it.

Let's just leave it at this. I think it is a big deal when a company tells a bold-face lie to their customers no matter what the affected title is rated. I will think the same way when Sony does it. I guess we are just different that way.

[Oddmaker]

So what's the deal with this game that keeps it from serializing itself to a 64mb memory card? I think I missed something here.
Well the PC version SaveGames can save up to 150mb.. as for mine its about 120mb and thats only playing 3 seasons (i play fm2006 alot) ;) so thats why it needs a hdd.

[Citizen Philip]

This thread needs some Red Cloak.

[Hellstorm]

And Microsoft said that if it came down to a "game or not" decision, then there would be no game. That's what they said. Once shit like this starts happening, it opens the floodgates for other developers to run on through with hard-drive only games. Hell, Microsoft could sell plenty of hard-drives to Core users if they get a few AAA titles as requiring a hard-drive. So in the end, the Core user is getting fucked over by Microsoft just as many people predicted that they would.

This is why I don't have brand loyalty anymore.

THis is the same MS that said patches for Xbox games would NEVER happen. You guys are somehow surprised??!! :confused:

[Everlost_MI]

This thread needs some Red Cloak.

What we really need is more cowbell....

[Scull]

COWBELL! Ding!

[absolut taco]

THis is the same MS that said patches for Xbox games would NEVER happen. You guys are somehow surprised??!! :confused:
1) When did they say that?
2) You act like a patch is a bad thing... Yeah, in a perfect world they wouldn't be needed, but I'm sure as hell glad they exist...

[Lord Dongkey]

Patches for console games is one of the greatest failings of the last generation of games... MS brute forcing a bunch of developers to not have HDD's makes them be more careful with their coding, but also more conservative with their feature sets and creativity... if we believe what developers are saying, the latest dev kits/API's are far more complicated to work with and retain stability... a double edged sword and no way to win on that one.

That is, unless you're Carmack. Odd thing, that. One would think that if ONE company could make the most visually stunning game of its time on the most diverse/non-unified hardware specs and have it remain stable... then....

But I digress.


Games requiring the HDD for the 360? Fine with me. I still haven't really convinced myself the 360 is worth the investment since my list of games to catch up on from the last generation and on the PC is long enough that I may never catch up, but I definitely am impressed with how MS pulled off the cost difference of the core vs. premium... do any of us here really believe the HDD, wireless controller, and headset cost MS $100 to make? I hope not. But more importantly, MS is a company, companies are capitalists, and that means that if they CAN fuck you and get away with it and make more money, they sure as shit will. This isn't something we should be indignant about. What we SHOULD be indignant about, however, is that their method of fucking over the consumer, if rampant, could potentially deter casual gamers from buying the system, thus increasing either their market share, new consumer entrants into the industry, or both.


Another thing that burns me up... why the hell are the save games 120mb? Now, I haven't played the game, and I don't know what it consists of, but last I checked, most "save games" (especially regarding teams, statistics, names, etc) include "easily text-representable data", which means "compress that shit." I could be way off on that, I admit, but it seems that bloatware has become an acceptable thing.

Neh.

Ed: Before the peasants riot, let me point out that, while I bought Doom 3, I felt the game was so devoid of content and fun that I went in and modified the damned game to play like the original Doom and STILL haven't sat down and played through it. But it's purdy.

[DeadlyDonkey]

It's the only other title we know of right now. I don't deal in specualtion and conjecture , because its impossible for me to say. My point is if we WERE talking about Madden or Halo or (insert AAA title here) then it would be a big deal. But it's not, if it ever is, we can talk about it.

I'll be the first to say, Football Manager is THE madden of sports management games for the UK, when a new interation comes out it is the #1 selling PC game for at least 2 months (until the fucking sims knocks it off again). Seriously, you keep calling this a no-name title, but over here in England it's a big, big title.

[Dakar]

I'll be the first to say, Football Manager is THE madden of sports management games for the UK, when a new interation comes out it is the #1 selling PC game for at least 2 months (until the fucking sims knocks it off again). Seriously, you keep calling this a no-name title, but over here in England it's a big, big title.
So you are saying Football Manager is the inferior product that forced out the more superior competition by buying an exclusive license? ;)

Sorry old habits die hard :)

[Kelegacy]

Microsoft could have saved so much headache, confusion, and consumer angst if they had released one goddamn system instead of two. The 360 is just over 3 months old! If you think this will be one of the only games to utilized the HDD, you're kidding yourself.

[Achilles]

Wow, THAT didn't take long. Bunch of fucking liars. First, all 360s will have a hard drive; then only some 360s have hard drives, but it's not required; now it's required for some games. Microsoft really gives Sony a run for it's money as far as fibbing goes.Except Sony lies about what their system will be able to do, then removes it, whereas MS lies about what their games won't be able to do, and then adds things (patching, requiring the hard drive).

Would anyone like MS to force developers to reduce the features in their games so they can run without the harddrive? Do you think that'll give you a better gaming experience?

[Kelegacy]

Except Sony lies about what their system will be able to do, then removes it, whereas MS lies about what their games won't be able to do, and then adds things (patching, requiring the hard drive).


Man, that's the lamest arguement I've heard all day. And today has been rife with ridiculous claims.

[Achilles]

Man, that's the lamest arguement I've heard all day. And today has been rife with ridiculous claims.It may be lame, but what do you think of my question? Would you like MS to force developers to cut harddrive only features?

[nonchalance]

I'll be the first to say, Football Manager is THE madden of sports management games for the UK, when a new interation comes out it is the #1 selling PC game for at least 2 months (until the fucking sims knocks it off again). Seriously, you keep calling this a no-name title, but over here in England it's a big, big title.

And in Australia. And Europe. And even Japan, I think.

This is a fucking giant game - hell, I can't stand soccer, and I still play it.
What's more, it's directly aimed at the market who would probably buy the Core system - that is, sports fans who play games, but are not hardcore gamers.

To put it bluntly, the America-centric 'oh, who cares, it's not OUR football' attitude pisses the hell out of me.

[ColdForged]

Would you like MS to force developers to cut harddrive only features?

Personally I would have liked them to release a single SKU so they wouldn't have to force developers to cut harddrive-only features. It's always been a stupid decision and it remains a stupid decision.

[swegamer]

Ahh crap, didn't see this thread and submitted the same news item.

Anyhow, I actually broke this scoop back in april (Should you buy a Hard Drive With your 306 (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5069)), but a NDA made me keep quite about the details.

[Morratut]

Cores were only bought because of not enough Premiums.

:D

If you wanna play this buy the HD :rolleyes:

[Morratut]

I'm not suprised to be honest that a game is requiring a hard disk.

I expect more in the future.

[Goronmon]

As someone who bought the real 360, screw all you Core owners, I say all games require the hard drive! ;)

[rjcc]

I'll be the first to say, Football Manager is THE madden of sports management games for the UK, when a new interation comes out it is the #1 selling PC game for at least 2 months (until the fucking sims knocks it off again). Seriously, you keep calling this a no-name title, but over here in England it's a big, big title.

I'll admit, I had no idea it was such a popular title over there, that said, i did request in my previous post, that someone who was anticipating this title more than me speak on how disappointed/betrayed they feel over this.

[Grifter]

But I digress.

I wouldnt do that if I were you. I had a cousin who digressed once, it wasn't pretty. He dislocated his left testicle and now he has an overwhelming desire to wear pink T-shirts and has to pee sitting down.

[Heretic Machine]

It may be lame, but what do you think of my question? Would you like MS to force developers to cut harddrive only features?

I would of liked for the Core system to not exist, hence all my bitching pre-launch. But since we have a Core system, and Microsoft said that no games would require the hard-drive, yes I would want them to cut hard-drive only features. That's called honesty, and it's something that none of you seem to care about anymore.

[nonchalance]

As someone who bought the real 360, screw all you Core owners, I say all games require the hard drive! ;)

And you're unconcerned by the fact that the company that just sold you that expensive piece of hardware blatantly lied in its press releases?

[Mason]

Well the PC version SaveGames can save up to 150mb.. as for mine its about 120mb and thats only playing 3 seasons (i play fm2006 alot) ;) so thats why it needs a hdd.
Wow, does the game track whenever one of your players farts or something?

I can visualize a very complex sports management game, but in a terse binary format, 150mb is still a fuckload of data. All the players and matches, I know, but still.

I'm not convinced that there weren't design or technical shenanigans that led to this. Even Lionhead knew when to take the pointless growing trees out of Fable.

[nonchalance]

I can visualize a very complex sports management game, but in a terse binary format, 150mb is still a fuckload of data. All the players and matches, I know, but still.

I don't think you realise how many players, stats and matches this game tracks.
Seriously.

It's comprehensive like the sun is warm.

[bobbler]

Honestly, who gives a shit? Maybe it's the realistic consumer in me, but what companies say and what they do are rarely the same. Being a martyr and getting upset at this is sort of silly -- if they said no games would require an hdd then they screwed up, big deal... isn't it better for gamers that games requiring an HDD are coming out? If they didn't require the HDD they'd likely have to be changed and likely butchered to be able to work without (better game experiences are what we all want, right?).

I can't bring myself to get upset over something like this, especially considering I was hoping they'd lapse on their decision and allow HDD-required games.

[Grifter]

Honestly, who gives a shit? Maybe it's the realistic consumer in me, but what companies say and what they do are rarely the same. Being a martyr and getting upset at this is sort of silly -- if they said no games would require an hdd then they screwed up, big deal... isn't it better for gamers that games requiring an HDD are coming out? If they didn't require the HDD they'd likely have to be changed and likely butchered to be able to work without (better game experiences are what we all want, right?).

I can't bring myself to get upset over something like this, especially considering I was hoping they'd lapse on their decision and allow HDD-required games.

I agree, if it was the other way around I would be pissed but the fact that a company is going to take full advantage of somthing I paid extra for, doesn't really bug me.

[Heretic Machine]

Maybe it's the realistic consumer in me, but what companies say and what they do are rarely the same.

No shit, but why should I sit around getting reamed up the ass without saying anything about it?

I agree, if it was the other way around I would be pissed but the fact that a company is going to take full advantage of somthing I paid extra for, doesn't really bug me.

The point is that they lied, and screwed people over. You remember the Sony root-kit fiasco? Same thing, they lied and screwed people over. This is not something that we should let just slide by.

[bobbler]

No shit, but why should I sit around getting reamed up the ass without saying anything about it?

The point is that they lied, and screwed people over. You remember the Sony root-kit fiasco? Same thing, they lied and screwed people over. This is not something that we should let just slide by.

Forgive me for not jumping at MS' throat when I know this won't really affect my purchasing decisions (unless I'm annoyed enough not to purchase the product in question, then it isn't worth my time to complain like this). I, honestly dont consider them releasing a game that requires an HDD (when you essentially should have an HDD anyways) akin to being 'reamed up the ass', and I don't feel screwed (although I don't have a Core X360, or any X360 for that matter). What's the point of getting bent out of shape when this decision is actually better for the gamers in the end? The original decision (if there was one? I, honestly, don't recall) was the dumb one, this revision of it is a good decision.

I just don't understand why people think they are getting screwed over or fucked in the ass by this...? Sit there and think, how does this actually affect you and what are the actual ramifications of this? Companies are trying to sell a product, and just like women, they can change their minds on whatever they want, whenever they want.

Differing opinions, I guess.

There are a few things that I would probably join a witch hunt against MS for about Xbox, but this is definitely not one of them.

[SMES]

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but FFXI requires the HD doesn't it? And any future MMO will probably require the HD as well.

[KamaItachi]

I just don't understand why people think they are getting screwed over or fucked in the ass by this...? Sit there and think, how does this actually affect you and what are the actual ramifications of this? Companies are trying to sell a product, and just like women, they can change their minds on whatever they want, whenever they want.

Differing opinions, I guess.



I'm certain there's a correlation between those who are crying an assreaming over this and those who claimed Lucas raped their childhood with the Phantom Menace

[Mav]

Honestly, who fucking cares? Any serious gamer is going to eventualy have the hard drive anyway.

Can we please draw a line between "serious" gamer and gamer who actually likes to eat and pay rent? I mean, even if you found a 360 prior to Christmas alot of times the only thing left was a Core system. The "hardcore" fans who will pay any amount for anything (trekkies I'm looking at you and the $150 dvd's...) are who "have the hard drive anyway". Sure it's a small upgrade now, a couple months later, assuming they release a seperate HDD to attach. But those of us who have a Core system got it cause it was cheaper. If you ask me the $300 price mark was extreme itself, I've never paid more than $100 for a console (granted I really haven't bought a console since the N64..).

[Grifter]

Can we please draw a line between "serious" gamer and gamer who actually likes to eat and pay rent? I mean, even if you found a 360 prior to Christmas alot of times the only thing left was a Core system. The "hardcore" fans who will pay any amount for anything (trekkies I'm looking at you and the $150 dvd's...) are who "have the hard drive anyway". Sure it's a small upgrade now, a couple months later, assuming they release a seperate HDD to attach. But those of us who have a Core system got it cause it was cheaper. If you ask me the $300 price mark was extreme itself, I've never paid more than $100 for a console (granted I really haven't bought a console since the N64..).




If the differance between being able to eat or starve is $100 you shouldn't be buying any kind of 360. If like me you have to make that choice maybe you should save up a little over time by the 360 3 or 4 months after it is released so you don't have to buy the tard pack just so you can afford food. 3 to 4 months down the road the premium package should be redily avaliable.

Also I said "harcore gamer" not "hardcore fan" there is a huge diffirence the "hardcore gamer" has the knowledge to know what is a good buy and what is a wast of cash and buying a core system IF you have the option to buy the premium is a waste of cash IF you don't plan on buying the harddrive IF you take your gaming seriously.

A "hardcore fan" will buy anything that has to do with what they are a fan of no questions asked. I don't think their is a single person on this website who could be labeled a "hardcore fan" thats just being stupid.

If you have never paid more than $100 for a console and you don't think you ever should you don't belong in this thread. Wait a few years you should be able to find what your looking for. No one put a gun to your head and forced you to buy a 360 the month it was released.

[Major Dan]

If this is true, then explain why add-ons never work out that well for consoles. It is a mistake to split your own market like that. Microsoft's stupidity started with the dual sku and they are going to come full circle on it now by alienating one of the skus.

I think if Microsoft had done away with the dual sku idea, either had full backward compatibility or none at all, and had enough units on hand, they would definitely be in a position to take on Sony. Live Arcade and some good titles would have given them a serious boost. However, from the start they have done nothing but confused customers. K.I.S.S.

But I don't consider the HDD as an add on for the 360 since it is sold on some of them to start with. I think what it is as more of a bigger memory card, and that is probably what a core buyer will convince themself of when the purchase it. How many memory cards do you have for the PS2 and/or Gamecube I have 2 each when they are full I do not want to delete files but end up spending $25 for another one, so in the 360's case I could be 4 cards or 1 card and a HDD, and never have to buy a card again. Do this over 2 years and it doesn't really seem like that much money. So I think a casual gamer who bought the $300 Core system will have to justify that $300 in their minds and not want to get more then mabye 2 memory cards any way, then add the fact that Halo 3 needs a HDD to save new maps etc and you have a very good reason to get a HDD (hpyothetically). Thanks.

[Lord Dongkey]

Also I said "harcore gamer" not "hardcore fan" there is a huge diffirence the "hardcore gamer" has the knowledge to know what is a good buy and what is a wast of cash...

Thus sayeth the Lord Dongkey: "Why do you think I haven't bought a 360 yet? I am TEH TRU H4RDC0R3!!1!"

I believe that rules out both the core and the premium in one fell swoop. :p

But seriously, "hardcore gamers" don't necessarily know shit about what's a good buy and a waste of cash. EvilAvatar readers, yeah, probably a bit more knowledge, but I'm sure there's "hardcore gamers" that don't know a damned thing about market trends, development cycles, resource allocation and cost considerations on both console life cycles and game releases, etc.

Just wanted to point out that there's a very select niche of gamers that are not only hardcore gamers, but that also follow the industry trends and developments with bated breath. Niche == smaller sect of market == not as much money spent as the ignorant ones == less of an influence than the "ignorant" gamers who get kinda screwed over by making the mistake of trusting a salesman. And thus getting pissed off at the 360. And thus hurting market share and lowering publisher/developer investment of money and work to better the console.

In theory.

[Grifter]

I agree completely(I think). The problem is most of the people I know either know enough about gaming and gaming trends to spend intelligently or ask me for my opinion so I guess I don't really think about all the clueless people out there. I still don't care, If these people want the right to bitch about a purchase then they should do a little research before.

It's kind of like people who bitch and moan about the government but don't vote. (Except not really important)

If this post makes no sence it's because I have been breathing metal particles and fumes all day (welding & grinding)

[Roman]

I can't believe such a big stink was made about this. The Core system was made for CASUAL gamers, who are not going to buy games that would need a HDD like Football Manager or any kind of MMORPG. There's no real conflict here.

[nonchalance]

I can't believe such a big stink was made about this. The Core system was made for CASUAL gamers, who are not going to buy games that would need a HDD like Football Manager or any kind of MMORPG. There's no real conflict here.

Hardcore football fans != hardcore gamers.