Music Games Encourage Kids Not to Learn

[modeps]

Bill Wyman of Rolling Stones fame has decided to come out and complain about music games and how kids should be spending time on REAL INSTRUMENTS instead of those falsies. The BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8242749.stm):

He [Wyman] ]told the BBC: "It encourages kids not to learn, that's the trouble.

"It makes less and less people dedicated to really get down and learn an instrument. I think is a pity so I'm not really keen on that kind of stuff."

Further down in the article, Nick Mason weighs in a bit on bringing Pink Floyd to music games:

"I'm of the old guard who are really sad about that, because I always liked the concept of the album - rather than just cherry-picking tracks - and also the business of the art work that went with it."

The Beatles sold out, everyone else should too! Read our review of The Beatles: Rock Band (http://evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=94601).

[Roc Ingersol]

Yeah, they're clearly "of the old guard": the ones who talk shit about anything new and well before they knows the first fucking thing about it or what actual, documented impact it's making on music.

Bill Wyman, Nick Mason -- you're embarrassing yourself.

[bskeillor]

When will these music people get it?

If little Johny isn't playing a fake instrument while listening to your music, he's most likely not going to pick up a real instrument and learn that. He's going to pick up a normal controller and play Gears of War or something like that.

Sooner or later somebody will come out and say yeah it's great that kids today are playing games that are set to my music. And maybe, hopefully, some of them will want to go out and get a real instrument and start to learn that as well. These guys get way too offended by music games.

You want to really piss somebody off? Go up to somebody that is a real guitar player and ask them where the colored buttons are...

[modeps]

Personally, when I started playing music games, I thought to myself "Man, if it's this difficult to hit these few buttons and click a bar..." My appreciation level skyrocketed for music in general. Soon after, I started listening to music a bit differently. I'd listen specifically for the bass and lead guitars, then when Rock Band came out, I'd listen for the drums.

[GraveMatter]

His statements are purely conjecture. Show me the proof that says the people playing music games will never play a real instrument. How can you knock a genre that is actually getting kids to listen to music they normally would have never even had an interest in?? I just don't get these people at all. I really hate elitists.......

[ScottTFrazer]

He [Wyman] ]told the BBC: "You kids today with your video games and rap music.

"Get off my lawn."


Further down in the article, Nick Mason weighs in a bit on bringing Pink Floyd to music games:


"I lost relevance years ago, so I will now complain about a facet of the industry that has nothing to do with music games in specific, using the same speech I gave when the iTunes Music Store came out."

[Von Sol]

The point of releasing music in the first place is so people can enjoy it. If this is how they enjoy it, so be it. Matters little whether it subtracts or adds to people who pick up "real" instruments.

[monkey13]

Bill Wyman on music videos

It encourages kids not to listen. How can they concentrate on hearing our music with all these moving pictures

Also a quick sum up of Nick "The Dullard" Mason's comments.

I don't like my kids doing it (but it's OK for yours to). I prefer our albums but they're not selling any more. So if someone wants to do a Pink Floyd game I'd like the money please.

[Rafer]

Hearing Wyman complain about declining musicianship just sounds odd to me, as he's not exactly John Entwistle on the bass.

[Ulysses]

Wonder how many pages of the same point this will reach, heh.

[yutt]

I love how these talking heads think they can make declarations about something vaguely related to their field and that makes it fact.

Where is your case study showing that these games lower childrens' interest in learning real instruments, rather than raise their interest? Your gut feelings mean shit to me. Either point to a peer reviewed case study (preferably several, independent ones) supporting your position or keep your ignorant mouth shut.

[Samstag]

He could have something there. I play GTA all the time and I've never once beat a hooker or mowed down a crowd of pedestrians in real life. I just can't be bothered to learn.

[Albinobees]

He could have something there. I play GTA all the time and I've never once beat a hooker or mowed down a crowd of pedestrians in real life. I just can't be bothered to learn.

ding ding ding. we have a winner, bob tell em what hes won!*

(*best post ever.)

[Kragg]

Wyman is an idiot. I'm a musician. I've played bass guitar for years. Playing a music game, and a real instrument are two totally different experiences and are equally fun in their own ways. If anything, maybe playing music games will get kids even more interested in music and make them want to pick up real instruments.

[Johan]

Newsflash: The hobbies people engage in take time (a finite resource) from other potential hobbies, and advocates of those other hobbies (whether such hobbies are artistic endeavors or not) do not look kindly upon such alternate choices. He's not an idiot; he's merely an advocate for his particular hobby, which in this case happens to also be an art form and means of expression. He's also having difficulty, as every generation does, in coming to grips with the opportunities (and risks) that come with technological innovations which open up new avenues of disseminating (and even creating) art.

I just can't be bothered to learn.

You must be American. That would explain it. :D

[blackzc]

Not to learn what? EA is really grasping at stories today.

[Froggy]

Your gut feelings mean shit to me.

I'm extremely excited about this sentence.

First, it's pragmatically ambiguous. You could very well achieve the exact opposite meaning of your point with the same sentence (try emphasizing the word "mean"). I find that cool.

Also, there is a pun in there. I can't put my finger on it, but there's something funny about the use of "shit" and "gut feeling" in the same sentence.

Linguist out.

[JazGalaxy]

It's interesting that the opposite is actually the case.

The late night of School of Rock+Guitar Hero 2 is what made me finally head down to the pawn show and buy my bass and amp many many years ago.

Still playing it...

[MusicToEat]

Whaaaaaa. They look at life differently then me, they must be idiots. Whaaaaaaa!

[Bacarat]

Wyman is an idiot. I'm a musician. I've played bass guitar for years. Playing a music game, and a real instrument are two totally different experiences and are equally fun in their own ways. If anything, maybe playing music games will get kids even more interested in music and make them want to pick up real instruments.

Sorry But...... Your are NOT a musician if you think they are both "equally fun". Actually playing and creating music is light years beyond this kind of stuff.

[blackzc]

Sorry But...... Your are NOT a musician if you think they are both "equally fun". Actually playing and creating music is light years beyond this kind of stuff.


Rock band will get old and playing music never will (drums,piano for me) But right now RB is as fun. But i see your point, throwing down on some drums and blowing everyone away at a party own the shit out of banging on plastic drums at a party....

Did i mention drums get you da womenz?

[GunnSgtHartman]

LOL.

I have a friend who is a Rock Band and Guitar Hero fan and he bought a guitar a year ago SPECIFICALLY because he liked playing music games.

Why is Nick Mason complaining? He's a millionaire by playing drums and sleeping at the same time. I mean, I like Pink Floyd but I've never seen Nick as a good drummer. He is very tight, but at the same time it's very easy stuff. All Pink Floyd songs would have 1/5 difficulty on drums in Rock Band!

He's probably just pissed because Pink Floyd music isn't licensed yet in a music game and he doesn't get money.

[GunnSgtHartman]

I forgot to add that he actually broke his 46" SHARP AQUOS with the head of his guitar. His guitar is fine (PRS, damn lucky guy!) but his TV is not :)

That wouldn't have happened with a plastic guitar :)

[bickle]

In other news, airline pilots are extremely saddened by people playing flight sims rather than going to flight school. Mass murders and space marines are similarly disappointed that youngsters are playing games rather than learning firsthand how to slaughter indiscriminately or taking the time to actually learn how to blow up an alien hive.

[Anenome]

I'd be extremely surprised if the GH games and their imitators had a negative effect on the likelihood of players to pickup the actual instruments. Because of that, I think his comments ridiculous.

[Anenome]

In other news, airline pilots are extremely saddened by people playing flight sims rather than going to flight school. Mass murders and space marines are similarly disappointed that youngsters are playing games rather than learning firsthand how to slaughter indiscriminately or taking the time to actually learn how to blow up an alien hive.

Yeah, wasn't there some articles about the Marines and other armed services actually seeing a rather large increase in the number of people volunteering, even during a war-time, and attributing it to the popularity of FPS games?

I don't see how you can become something unless you first get the idea to become that thing, by being exposed to it. Guitar Hero exposes people to the idea of being a musician, the idea of playing an instrument professionally. It will therefore turn many kids into musicians that otherwise may not have pursued that path.

[blackzc]

One thing RB and GH needs to do is make it easy to use real electronic drums with the game or release a more realist set you can play without breaking. IONs are not good enough IMO. Maybe add some more chords or drum notes and tighten the accuracy way up on the guitars and make them bigger and more ergonomic.

A (pro) version would be nice to. I only play the last 2 tiers on hard and expert, the others are kinda boring.

Oh and less ROCK AND ROLL F- YEAH STAB YOUR MOTHER WITH A BUTCHER KNIFE GHAAA!!! How about some actual music. More technical bands like dream theater and rush.

Thats all i can think of right now.

[TeeCakes]

Speaking as a longtime gamer that happened to master an NES controller 2 years before playing the violin/sax in a school band, the sort of dedication that a hardcore gamer has easily translates into what it takes to become proficient with a real instrument.

Rock Band mastery is fairly-good estimate of how 'hardcore' a gamer is. We all know people who can "play" music games, then there are those who pwn music games. Channeling that 'hardcore gamer' drive into learning the piano or the guitar was something I personally found to be pretty handy with musical instruction.

[TheBot]

I can see where he's coming from. He wants kids to pick up instruments and experiment, not just try to play their favorite tune. On the other hand he's being a stubborn ox in trying to think the world is the same as it was when Pink Floyd was playing. It's not the same anymore. There are musicians who are experimenting still, they just aren't big. And music games can be a gateway to the real thing. I think it's only inspiring creativity, and the further down the video game line we get with them, the better the programmers and designers will make them. Imagine doing your own solo to a Zeppelin tune, not having to follow Page's notes, but making your own until you think it sounds good, then holding the score online for it till someone challenges you on it. And blahblahblah.

[Pitpig]

Yeah, wasn't there some articles about the Marines and other armed services actually seeing a rather large increase in the number of people volunteering, even during a war-time, and attributing it to the popularity of FPS games?

That'd be interesting to read.

As for the "not playing real instruments" crap, playing Guitar Hero had the opposite effect on me. I liked the original game and finished it. One day, I realized I could put the controller down and pick up the Ibanez hooked up to a Marshall in the very next room. Sure, I can't rip through licks on it, but it's still a blast to play.

[Anenome]

That'd be interesting to read.

As for the "not playing real instruments" crap, playing Guitar Hero had the opposite effect on me. I liked the original game and finished it. One day, I realized I could put the controller down and pick up the Ibanez hooked up to a Marshall in the very next room. Sure, I can't rip through licks on it, but it's still a blast to play.

See, that's all I'm talking about. There's more than one path to becoming a musician, he should know that and respect it.

As for the comment about making drums work with RB, that was what I was trying to get at with a similar post in the last topic on GH, that eventually you may as well create actual instruments when can double as GH/RB input devices. Why the hell not? We can make all of that digital today. When that happens, the logical end of the music-game arms race has reached its end and fulfillment.