OXM: "Elder Scrolls: Oblivion = 5GB"

[Reanimated]

Just found a juicy tidbit of information in the back of the March issue of OXM. Included in an article about HDDVD was this comment:

"360's upcoming behemoth Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is set to weigh in at around 5GB"
So I guess this officially ends the disc space argument.

[mightbe]

Not really. Why end up spending so much for an HD DVD drive for your computer when maybe a few games a year right now could take up that much space?

You might as well keep what you have as developers are going to continue to cater to the lowest denominator. DVD's and CD's are still here for quite some time.

[SPBTooL]

Not really. Why end up spending so much for an HD DVD drive for your computer when maybe a few games a year right now could take up that much space?

You might as well keep what you have as developers are going to continue to cater to the lowest denominator. DVD's and CD's are still here for quite some time.
Um, I think that is exactly what he ment by "So I guess this officially ends the disc space argument."

[codswallop]

I don't get it. The game fits on a single, regular dual-layer DVD disc (which have a capacity of ~8.5GB). Why are you talking about buying HD-DVD drives?

[Klade]

It talks about the 360 version, I wonder if they keep everything on the disc uncompressed to cut down on load times. Maybe the pc version will take up 5 gigs after install but only 2 gigs (or whatever) before?

[Reanimated]

It talks about the 360 version, I wonder if they keep everything on the disc uncompressed to cut down on load times. Maybe the pc version will take up 5 gigs after install but only 2 gigs (or whatever) before?




Dunno, but the Oblivion preview of the "near final" build said that the load times were "mere seconds".

[DeadPixel]

The more I think about this game the more I want to see reviews compare 360 with the PC version. This could be the game to sell 360 for me. How exciting.

[Busted_Astromech]

And if nobody remembers, Morrowind PC fit on a single CD (and while my copy has a second disc labeled "TES Construction Set," it is installed from the first disc...rendering disc two somewhat worthless).

Yeah, I'm thinking 9 gigs will be just fine, thank you.

[Royal Fool]

Obviously, Oblivion would be tons better if done on the PS3, because PS3 has Blu-Ray thing that makes games better because it has more disc space.

[Hizawky]

And if nobody remembers, Morrowind PC fit on a single CD (and while my copy has a second disc labeled "TES Construction Set," it is installed from the first disc...rendering disc two somewhat worthless).


Morrowind had less voice acting than the peragus space station in KOTOR2.

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

Oblivion will suck, its not 235234523455gigs.

[buckfutter]

It's a good thing one game can end the entire disc space argument in one fell swoop. Otherwise we'd have to discuss things, or wait and see how the situation develops once both platforms are out.

[ChaosDent]

Morrowind had less voice acting than the peragus space station in KOTOR2.

That doesn't mean much, voice compresses very well if you need it to.

[bone_matrix]

It's a good thing one game can end the entire disc space argument in one fell swoop. Otherwise we'd have to discuss things, or wait and see how the situation develops once both platforms are out.


Well, since Oblivion will be a very big/long game, with lots of voice work and gorgeous graphics (high res textures, etc.), I believe it can be used as a good measure as to how much room other modern games will take up. This game was being touted as the reason DVDs are being quickly outdated. Apparently (if true) not.

[Kelegacy]

It's a good thing one game can end the entire disc space argument in one fell swoop. Otherwise we'd have to discuss things, or wait and see how the situation develops once both platforms are out.
Especially in a console's infancy, for a game that has been in development since 2002. I anticipate the games around the mid-life of the 360 to probably start running out of space. But again, it depends on the game. Most will probably be just fine.

But you have to remember that the PS3 didn't select BR media for gaming. It is there to further the agenda for BR movies and such. The fact that you can put large amounts of data on the discs makes it appealing for gaming, but companies can still elect to use standard DVDs.

A quick question: is DVD9 material less stable than DVD5? I remember Xenosaga 1 came on one disc and was DVD9, but Xenosaga 2 came on two DVD5 discs.

[Reanimated]

Well, since Oblivion will be a very big/long game, with lots of voice work and gorgeous graphics (high res textures, etc.), I believe it can be used as a good measure as to how much room other modern games will take up. This game was being touted as the reason DVDs are being quickly outdated. Apparently (if true) not.



Precisely.

Where are all the blue ray twits that were saying "I wonder what all they cut from Oblivion to get it squeezed onto one DVD"???

Apparently nothing, seeing as how they left about 3 gigs unused.

[JazGalaxy]

That makes no sense.

Oblivion runs off the CD (for those who do not have a hard drive) with on gameplay withholdings, so says Bethesda.

The harddrive is used mostly, again so says bethesday, for speeding up gameplay.

That would suggest that the information being copied onto the harddrive is redundant data that is only copied over to increase the load times.

Therefore, it stands to reason that the SIZE OF THE DISC IS OF NO CONSEQUENCE. It might not even be full. What they are saying is that it is slow, and BluRay, I don't think, is going to be any faster.

[Nameback]

What they are saying is that it is slow, and BluRay, I don't think, is going to be any faster.

I belive that DVD drives actually do run at 16x, while as the BR drives only run at 1x.

[Troggles]

1x Blu-ray drives run at 36mbits/s. They are working on a 2x Blu-ray drive for 52mbits/s, which will be necessary for actually doing stuff with the disc.

Nice to see we won't be needing to buy 500 dollar add-ons to play great games anytime soon.

[mkelehan]

The simple fact is games will probably only need 9GB at a time for quite a while. The only thing that would set it over the top would be video, and for that, you can just insert disc 2 halfway through. And if one disc swap in a 20 hour game is too much work, you've reached a new level of lazy. Go buy a DDR bundle.

[Borys]

What argument?

The only thing put to rest is the insecurity of Xbox fanbois (not exactly you, R).

Blu-Ray still offers more space and one game won't change its perception by the gamers a bit.

Can't wait for the BR GTA4 announcement. I wonder how will they spin it then :)

[Kefkataran]

Well, since Oblivion will be a very big/long game, with lots of voice work and gorgeous graphics (high res textures, etc.), I believe it can be used as a good measure as to how much room other modern games will take up.

While I think it's fair to *assume* Oblivion's going to be extremely large and long and have all those things you mentioned, in fitting with Morrowind, I don't think we can really draw and rock-hard conclusions until the thing is released. Maybe it'll end up being just another 12-hour game? ;)

[Nameback]

While I think it's fair to *assume* Oblivion's going to be extremely large and long and have all those things you mentioned, in fitting with Morrowind, I don't think we can really draw and rock-hard conclusions until the thing is released. Maybe it'll end up being just another 12-hour game? ;)

An elder scrolls game 12 hours? You obvously havent played one.

[Kefkataran]

An elder scrolls game 12 hours? You obvously havent played one.

Actually, I was obviously joking. I've played plenty of Morrowind enough to know how ridiculously large they are. Although, actually, I've heard if you play straight through the story and move fast you can finish Morrowind in 10 hours or less. But anyways, yeah, just playing, really.

[baz]

Morrowind did have a lot of texture repitition, and like no pre-rendered video. So Oblivion isn't really going to be the proof. Oblivion is my current most wanted for 2006 by the way, so I'm not really knocking the game, just suggesting that they could maybe have done with a more varied texture set in morrowind.

[baz]

Actually, I was obviously joking. I've played plenty of Morrowind enough to know how ridiculously large they are. Although, actually, I've heard if you play straight through the story and move fast you can finish Morrowind in 10 hours or less. But anyways, yeah, just playing, really.

Haha... you can finished Morrowind in under 20 minutes by potion stacking :D, check these out.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/Morrowind.html

Damn Morrowind was a whole bad of awesome.

[sTubbs]

The simple fact is games will probably only need 9GB at a time for quite a while. The only thing that would set it over the top would be video, and for that, you can just insert disc 2 halfway through. And if one disc swap in a 20 hour game is too much work, you've reached a new level of lazy. Go buy a DDR bundle.

The reason people complain about the possibility of disc swaps is because they have the potential to severely damage otherwise immersive games. Imagine having to switch discs every time you changed cities in San Andreas. Disc swapping is okay when the game in question is linear. But in a game where exploration is key to the atmosphere and gameplay, disc swapping is enough to ruin an otherwise perfectly good experience.

I am surprised it has not been mentioned yet, but it is vital to point out that the primary reason Oblivion is so small is because it features procedurally generated forests. Bethesda has stated that the majority of the environment is going to be procedurally generated and thus will take up an absolute minimum of disc space. If they had hand crafted the entire 16 mile by 16 mile world, it is probable that the game would not fit on a single DVD.

This is not to say that the DVD format will be insufficient for this generation. Considering the most graphically intense PC games still require far less than DVD capacity, it is more than likely that the vast majority of games will have enough storage. This is especially so considering new software technologies very often require little extra space for impressive visual gains. While it is likely that some games will require more space than DVD can provide, it is absurd to think that the dozens of gigs available on Blu-Ray will be anywhere near necessary before this generation is over.

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

I cant wait for games to be shipped on massive multi terabyte hard drives which have to be loaded onto a console with its own internal hard drive of infinty storage-ness!!!! zomg!!!!

[sTubbs]

I cant wait for games to be shipped on massive multi terabyte hard drives which have to be loaded onto a console with its own internal hard drive of infinty storage-ness!!!! zomg!!!!

Why use harddrives? When terabytes are required we can just start using holographic storage. It is already on route to storing a terabyte worth of information on a standard sized disc.

[Deathbane27]

The majority of data space taken up in ALL games is audio, textures, and models, not terrain/environment coordinates.

Just as an example... Morrowind, whose terrain was 100% hand-crafted.

Entire game folder, with all expansions installed: 960 MB.

Morrowind.bsa, Tribunal.bsa, Bloodmoon.bsa (Data containers, holding all models and textures): 470 MB
Sound, Music folders: 228 MB
Video folder (Bloodmoon expansion only, base game's movies are on disc): 99.2 MB

ESM files (Contains all terrain data, all interior structures (but NOT the models that make them up), all game scripts, all data about each NPC, the item/weapon/armor database, all object/NPC placement data, all game dialog, ...): 89.6 MB

And the rest is the game executable, the construction set, and other misc. files.

I'm not certain which formats are compressed, but this is how the files are on the CD, and on the hard drive after installing.

Even in Morrowind, the game world takes up an insignificant amount of disc space compared to the graphics and sound that bring it to life.

Heck, full game + 2 expansions game world was less than the movie files for one expansion. And Morrowind wasn't exactly very FMV intensive, either. I'd love to see that ratio on any given JRPG. :p

And with Oblivion? Heh, it will probably be even more extreme since there's a sound file for EVERY line of dialog. The developers said early on that the voice acting took up about half of the game's disc space. There's more terrain and probably more environmental objects (there WERE a lot of rocks and plants in Morrowind, come to think of it, and Oblivion will probably have automatic grass instead of each clump being hand-placed), true, but I still suspect that the world-data-to-audio/video ratio will be even lower.

Hopefully we'll be finding out VERY shortly. :)


I am surprised it has not been mentioned yet, but it is vital to point out that the primary reason Oblivion is so small is because it features procedurally generated forests. Bethesda has stated that the majority of the environment is going to be procedurally generated and thus will take up an absolute minimum of disc space. If they had hand crafted the entire 16 mile by 16 mile world, it is probable that the game would not fit on a single DVD.


Not exactly.

Not "is going to be", was procedurally generated.

Todd goofed up royally during the E3 presentation. There's a correction about once every 2 months on the elderscrolls.com forums. You can read past dev quotes at http://waiting4oblivion.com/ to see what I mean. (Just search the main page for "quotes" for links to the individual archive pages.)

"The forests are procedurally generated during development, not on the fly for each individual game." - Hayt, Designer

They were probably touched up or otherwise altered in a few places as well, such as around cities or dungeon entrances.

And, as you can see from the files on Morrowind, even if the terrain data is stored as formulae instead of a coordinate database... there's not that much space to save, even though the game world is larger.



Sorry for the long, sprawling post, just wanted to get all the speculation and necessary data to back it up in one throw. :p

[Vandenh]

At least we can expect 10% gameplay 90% movie goodness on Bluray. It also look very good in TV commercials BTW.

[Com_Gaunt]

I don't get it. The game fits on a single, regular dual-layer DVD disc (which have a capacity of ~8.5GB). Why are you talking about buying HD-DVD drives?

Hear hear, 8.5 Gigs is more than enough to cater any upcoming games.
I never understand the Blueray/HD DVD argument anyhow.... as far as I know, no current Xbox games ship on Dual layer discs and are usually smaller than 3 gigs in size.

[bapenguin]

I still think limiting space is a GOOD thing. It causes a developer to not be as sloppy with thing and think outside the box for certain other thing (Ie Procedural generation).

[Paranoia]

Crazy, people argue that "bigger content = better game" while stray away from what a game is really about.

[Stormwatcher]

Well, only games that needed two disks onthe ps2 were ones full of videos. And Next Gen is supposed to do away with pre-rendered stuff (yeah, right, uhu.). And I'll echo the question: why are most PS2 bigger games released in DVD5 instead of dual layer, like Xenosaga 1?

[Paranoia]

Nintendo aren't worry too much about storage, even Revolution is going to be DVD.

Heck, the DS cartridge games lineup are much MUCH better than what is offered by the PSP disc based games.

[Rirath]

Disc swapping is okay when the game in question is linear.

Indeed, but swapping classics like Final Fantasy VII was like, a milestone. It was a new chapter, or like opening a new book of a trilogy. At any rate, it was big, an event. I even tended to measure many RPGs afterwards in terms of how many discs they came on. But that was way back when. :)

At any rate... interesting news but still disappointing. I check daily hoping to finally hear either the game has gold gold or a release date has been finalized... and this is the only tidbit we get? Bah.

[Reanimated]

Well, only games that needed two disks onthe ps2 were ones full of videos. And Next Gen is supposed to do away with pre-rendered stuff (yeah, right, uhu.). And I'll echo the question: why are most PS2 bigger games released in DVD5 instead of dual layer, like Xenosaga 1?




Because Sony shipped a lot of shitty PS2's that had problems with dual layer pickup.

[jpublic]

As to the "why 2 DVD5 instead of 1 DVD9 question" guys, there's two reasons I know of:

1) DVD9 tends to be a bit more finiky, and older or slighly misaligned drives that don't have a problem with DVD5 have a problem with the second layer.
2) At least a year or so ago (which was the last time I did a mass order of data DVDs for work) it's cheaper to get 2 DVD5's than 1 DVD9.

[Cool AN]

I can't really see how the disc space argument is done, when Epic have said that Gears of War will take up 20GB. Also I wouldn't expect a first generation game to take up that much space so soon, it normally takes some time but it has always increased a lot.

[bone_matrix]

I can't really see how the disc space argument is done, when Epic have said that Gears of War will take up 20GB. Also I wouldn't expect a first generation game to take up that much space so soon, it normally takes some time but it has always increased a lot.

Do you have a link to a quote or anything? Because that seems like a ludacris about of space for a game. Just insane.

[oneway23]

20 gb seems a bit much

[Nameback]

20GB's is insane.................. for now. In the future yes, but 20GB now is just crazy. I mean seriously, my steam folder with all my mods and all previous games is only 15.

[Kelegacy]

Do you have a link to a quote or anything? Because that seems like a ludacris about of space for a game. Just insane.
No link or other proof didn't stop this thread from becoming a front page newspost. Not even a scan.

Basically news on Evil Avatar doesn't have to involve integrity or proof. Thus, I don't find 20 gigs to be ludicrous.

[absolut taco]

Hear hear, 8.5 Gigs is more than enough to cater any upcoming games.
I never understand the Blueray/HD DVD argument anyhow.... as far as I know, no current Xbox games ship on Dual layer discs and are usually smaller than 3 gigs in size.
I think the Xbox can only read single layer discs, and that is why no games can be bigger than 4.7 G...

[Kelegacy]

I think the Xbox can only read single layer discs, and that is why no games can be bigger than 4.7 G...
Wrong. Halo 2 is dual layered, Shenmue 2 is as well. There are some others, but I don't have time to dig up info.

[zyzyx]

I've played mountains of dual layer discs on my xbox. Handles them fine.

Have to say, for what it's worth, we're heading for a big revolution in the use of procedural techniques in this multi-core world we now game in. More procedures (generally) means less disc usage. We won't be disc swapping like The Good Old Days anytime soon. If anyone anywhere on the net complains about Gears of War with regards disk swaps on the 360 I will eat my own face live on EA Radio. I also assume the guy worrying about his exploration and such never played a Final Fantasy game. Disc swaps in that, as said, were a genuine event and never impeded the exploration aspect.

[Cool AN]

Do you have a link to a quote or anything? Because that seems like a ludacris about of space for a game. Just insane.

Oh it has been on pretty much every major site, I will dig a link up.

Edit: After some searching, I finally (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1111&Itemid=35) found a link, I am pretty sure I saw the article on Gameindustri, but their search doesn't work so I had to use google.

"Unreal Tournament was 6GB compressed. Next Generation games are going to be 20GB plus, and how we're going to fit them on DVD9's I don't know, they'll probably be a few of them. On the PS3, we're going to be using the majority of the space on those Blu-ray disks. So, online isn't really the best option in some instances. Downloading 30GB isn't really feasible. "

[Nameback]

Oh it has been on pretty much every major site, I will dig a link up.

Please do, this is one I want to see.

[Manzy]

That doesn't really say Gears of War is going to be 20gb.

[Cool AN]

That doesn't really say Gears of War is going to be 20gb.

Not directly no, I didn't remember correctly. However it still means games will take up much more space then before. This happens every generation, people say they don't need a format because what they have now is ok, but then the space increases a lot.

[codswallop]

Wrong. Halo 2 is dual layered, Shenmue 2 is as well. There are some others, but I don't have time to dig up info.
Are you sure about Halo 2? Shenmue 2 and Jade Empire definitely are.

Actually, come to think of it, wasn't Halo 2 4.8GB or something so it was just over the limit to try and prevent casual piracy?

I think the Xbox can only read single layer discs, and that is why no games can be bigger than 4.7 G...
I don't know where you heard that, but it's completely insane. Since the Xbox can play DVD movies which are dual layer why would they go to the effort of breaking possible future compatibility to stop people from using more space?

[Kelegacy]

Are you sure about Halo 2? Shenmue 2 and Jade Empire definitely are.

Actually, come to think of it, wasn't Halo 2 4.8GB or something so it was just over the limit to try and prevent casual piracy?


I don't know where you heard that, but it's completely insane. Since the Xbox can play DVD movies which are dual layer why would they go to the effort of breaking possible future compatibility to stop people from using more space?
Yeah, I know Halo 2 became piratable on a DVD5 when they removed the XBL material from it. I forgot about Jade Empire, though.

[ezra]

Do you have a link to a quote or anything? Because that seems like a ludacris about of space for a game. Just insane.


I'd say its more DMX than ludacris.

[bone_matrix]

No link or other proof didn't stop this thread from becoming a front page newspost. Not even a scan.

Basically news on Evil Avatar doesn't have to involve integrity or proof. Thus, I don't find 20 gigs to be ludicrous.

Well, I agree that News on the frontpage should have something to back it. In this case, a scan, which I will give you: Clicky. (http://i1.tinypic.com/n71she.jpg)

Read the Developers Speak section.

It doesn't specifically say 5 GB, but it will fit on a DVD (probably dual layered) just fine. (Edit: I'm an idiot, it does specifically say it in the brown box.)

As far as 20 gigs goes, its stupid to believe. Past and present experience has taught us that no game is that big. Even the game which we are talking about will fit on a DVD just fine, and as I said before, people were worried about it. I may believe a game could be that big if everything is uncompressed and strewn about, and if it is everything in the game, even items that will not be used, but were intended to, but that is just sloppy and wouldn't ever ship like that. In Cool AN's quote and link, it isn't even specifically talking about Gears of War, just "Next Generation Games".

[Rirath]

Well, I agree that News on the frontpage should have something to back it. In this case, a scan, which I will give you: Clicky. (http://i1.tinypic.com/n71she.jpg)

Read the Developers Speak section.

It doesn't specifically say 5 GB, but it will fit on a DVD (probably dual layered) just fine.

Actually, it pretty much does. OpEd, 5 lines down from the image.
"Oblivion is set to weigh in at around 5GB."

Same quote used on the front page.

[bone_matrix]

Actually, it pretty much does. OpEd, 5 lines down from the image.
"Oblivion is set to weigh in at around 5GB."

Same quote used on the front page.

Doh!! I read the article a bunch of times not seeing that quote, it took me another few to finally find it. Regardless, we got the scan. :D

[feeble]

Obviously, Oblivion would be tons better if done on the PS3, because PS3 has Blu-Ray thing that makes games better because it has more disc space.

hahahaha.

thats one of the best quotes ive seen for a while.

[emjoi]

Okay. So.
Oblivion will be about 5Gig. Oblivion is one of the 360's earliest games. To be released within about 6 months of the console.
The 360 will be around for maybe 4 or 5 years, and in that time games will get more complex and physically larger.

Kinda obvious.

Morrowind was a huge cutting edge game for it's time.
It fit on 1 CD.
Plenty of games out nowdays use several CDs.

"640kb ought to be enough for anybody."

[Cool AN]

Okay. So.
Oblivion will be about 5Gig. Oblivion is one of the 360's earliest games. To be released within about 6 months of the console.
The 360 will be around for maybe 4 or 5 years, and in that time games will get more complex and physically larger.

Kinda obvious.

Morrowind was a huge cutting edge game for it's time.
It fit on 1 CD.
Plenty of games out nowdays use several CDs.

"640kb ought to be enough for anybody."

I completely agree, it is annoying that people haven't learned from past experience.

[bone_matrix]

Okay. So.
Oblivion will be about 5Gig. Oblivion is one of the 360's earliest games. To be released within about 6 months of the console.
The 360 will be around for maybe 4 or 5 years, and in that time games will get more complex and physically larger.

Kinda obvious.

Morrowind was a huge cutting edge game for it's time.
It fit on 1 CD.
Plenty of games out nowdays use several CDs.

"640kb ought to be enough for anybody."

Right, it is one of the 360's earliest, but its PC's latest. Its seems to be about one par size wise with other PC game that are being released.

People will use what is given to them. Years from now, games will be on HD-DVDs, Bluray discs, or whatever the hell is out there. But, for right now, and until we have a definitive new medium, DVDs are just fine.

[Evil_SPanKY]

"640kb ought to be enough for anybody."

Well, isn't it? I mean Bill said it is so, so it must be true!

[Meshyf]

What argument?

The only thing put to rest is the insecurity of Xbox fanbois (not exactly you, R).

Blu-Ray still offers more space and one game won't change its perception by the gamers a bit.

Can't wait for the BR GTA4 announcement. I wonder how will they spin it then :)

GRAND THEFT AUTO IS FUCKING PLAYED OUT.

What are you 14? Honestly that game can not stay fun for all that long, espically since it hasn't gone through any real gameplay change since GTA2-3. Its the same game, you're just paying for a diffrent setting and a slightly diffrent story that "surprise surprise" is some thug's rise to power. It gets old and its fucking lame. Not to mention the fact that GTA4 is no reason to buy a PS3 considering a better version always comes out 8 months later.

How about something original for the PS3 killer app instead of a tired and boring shitty game. Sony please don't fuck this up with a million Final Fantasy remakes and GTA knock offs.

[Mortis]

I don't think we will be seeing games on "HD" discs for a long time. They will just start using multiple DVD's if a game requires more than one disc of space. Even if the PS3 has a Blu-Ray drive that doesn't mean all of the games will be on Blu-Ray discs. Assuming they cost more than a normal DVD initially why add the extra cost if you don't need the space? Unless the Blu-Ray drive can't read standard DVD's or CD's.

[Kefkataran]

What are you 14? Honestly that game can not stay fun for all that long, espically since it hasn't gone through any real gameplay change since GTA2-3. Its the same game, you're just paying for a diffrent setting and a slightly diffrent story that "surprise surprise" is some thug's rise to power. It gets old and its fucking lame. Not to mention the fact that GTA4 is no reason to buy a PS3 considering a better version always comes out 8 months later.

How about something original for the PS3 killer app instead of a tired and boring shitty game. Sony please don't fuck this up with a million Final Fantasy remakes and GTA knock offs.

I hear the pocket change of 10 million plus gamers disagreeing with you.

[Kelegacy]

I hear the pocket change of 10 million plus gamers disagreeing with you.
Yeah, if you dismiss GTA as tired or Final Fantasy as a piece of crap series, you are obviously not a fan to begin with. The two series keep my interest just as much, if not more so, than past releases. (with exception of FFXI)

Give me more, give me more, I'm a GTA and FF whore.

[Dracula-X]

It gets old and its fucking lame.
Says you? Inflicting your opinion in BOLD CAPS doesn't make things so.

Sony please don't fuck this up with a million Final Fantasy remakes and GTA knock offs.
Last I checked Squeenix & Rockstar are responsible for these games, not Sony.

[Meshyf]

Says you? Inflicting your opinion in BOLD CAPS doesn't make things so.


Last I checked Squeenix & Rockstar are responsible for these games, not Sony.
No shit I was stating my oppionion and it was bolded because "WATCH THIS" I wanted to bring attention to it.
:eek: WHOOAAAAAAAA


I hear the pocket change of 10 million plus gamers disagreeing with you.
So sorry I'm not one of them.

Give me more, give me more, I'm a GTA and FF whore.
I'm all for the fans getting more versions of games they like I just want some innovation along with them. The series respectivly have done a lot for gaming in their own right. GTA brought Freerange and god I love the concept. Final Fantasy had decent stories and really introduced new people to the RPG genre.

I just don't like them and would definitly like to see both companies come up with some new IPs.

[Kefkataran]

So sorry I'm not one of them.

Not saying you were or had to be, just saying it's very unlikely they'll disappear considering that.

I just don't like them and would definitly like to see both companies come up with some new IPs.

Well, each FF title is basically in its own pocket universe anyways, since they're unrelated in everything including gameplay systems, so that's as good as a new IP -- they're just guaranteed to sell cause of the name. Except for all the FF7 stuff, but whatevs.

[Stormwatcher]

"I just don't like them" is probably the lamest argument you could use on a debate about market moves. Games like GTA:SA (which is my favorite in the series) and FFX are the ones that make stuff like Katamari and Shadow of the Colossus possible. And hey, we have God of War. Unless you hate Greek Mythology, it is a pretty good and successful new IP.