March PSM Provides Some "Hard Facts" on the PS3 [Archive]

PantherModern

02-03-2006, 05:38 AM

A recent thread over at the Official Playstation Boards (http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&message.id=249598&view=by_date_ascending&page=1) has some scans from an article in the March issue of PSM that detail a few of the features of Sony's upcoming console.

Highlights:

An Online service that goes beyond Live
Will act as a DVR
Final dev kits have shipped and prove to be more powerful than anticipated (according to unnamed developers who wished to remain anonymous)
An "iTunes-like" service for downloading Hi-def movies, music, etc.
Fall release date for ps3with no announced date for the online service (but it is expected to launch with the system)

Most of the posts on the official Sony board should only be read if you are into your eyes bleeding and sudden, violent brain implosion, but the article is interesting and somewhat informative, even if it is from PSM. So what do you guys think? Is the great Sony hype machine finally starting to wake up, or does Microsoft have a war on its hands?

Heretic Machine

02-03-2006, 06:19 AM

* An Online service that goes beyond Live

...How? Let me guess, by giving developers the freedom to make their own system!

* Will act as a DVR

Wonderful... Hey, wasn't it confirmed that your console wasn't coming with a hard-drive?

* An "iTunes-like" service for downloading Hi-def movies, music, etc.

You mean that thing that was an utter failure on the PC?

Fall release date for ps3with no announced date for the online service (but it is expected to launch with the system)

Ok, little later than expected.

KidCactus

02-03-2006, 06:26 AM

Wonderful... Hey, wasn't it confirmed that your console wasn't coming with a hard-drive?
But I don't see why that would mean it wouldn't work as a DVR if you have a harddrive?

bone_matrix

02-03-2006, 06:26 AM

Perigon- FTW!!

In all seriousness, I do hope Sony has something to compete with Live. If they don't there is no chance of me ever going online with the system. No, scratch that, a very very slim chance. I'm sure they will have a great game somewhere down the road that I will want to take online.

I am glad to finally see some information from them though. Now, lets just see what items don't make it into the PS3...

dolbex

02-03-2006, 06:26 AM

Regardless of what Parigon says, I'm excited to see a little news trickle out about the system. Support for some sort of DVR is a nice addition and while I can't see myself purchasing (or waiting for an full feature-length HD download) I could see where others might find that worth while. PPV with a huge wait time is what I see it as. :)

bone-matrix is also dead on. We need a competitor for Xbox Live! to ensure that both service and value stay on a competitive edge. (I, myself, find Live! to be a value as compared to my $15/mo WoW fee.)

The other news is of course vague and pretty much just the hype-train coming out of the station I guess. All aboard!!!

EDIT: Apparently is will also act as a location free player (http://digg.com/gaming/Tons_of_PS3_Details_Revealed_) for your PSP. Gross...

Hizawky

02-03-2006, 06:29 AM

So sony is going to counter the physical release of the 360 with fairy dust and snake oil?

thegameguru

02-03-2006, 06:30 AM

Act as a DVR? I'm curious to see if this going to be a software based capture or is there a true mpeg2 hardware based capture "card" in the PS3..

lost

02-03-2006, 06:31 AM

Those were some hot flames there Perigon.

Awesome if even half this is true and most of it seems to tie in with the "complete entertainment system" idea they pushed way back when. This close to release can you really see sony even allowing a thread like that to have too much bullshit? They'd shut it down if it was a threat to PR, it's the Sony way. They've been fighting the "Sony just makes stuff up" crap for a while now.

Conceding to a later launch date also gives the article an air of authenticity. Heres hoping eh.

Nite_Moogle

02-03-2006, 06:32 AM

* Will act as a DVR
Hahahaha.... Sony, the kind of DRM, is going to put a DVR in your living room?

Ailer

02-03-2006, 06:34 AM

So sony is going to counter the physical release of the 360 with fairy dust and snake oil?

Uhm yes? They've pulled it before, although not really against anyone. Huh, I wonder when old kenny will show up in the spotlight again.

AspectVoid

02-03-2006, 06:35 AM

So sony is going to counter the physical release of the 360 with fairy dust and snake oil?

If you mean by physical release that its a system that's impossible for anyone to get their hands on currently, then you're absolutely correct. In all honesty, Sony really doesn't have anything to worry about until Microsoft gets the shortages fixed.

As for the rest of the specs, I really don't care. I don't take my consoles online anyway, so an X-box live competitor means shit, just like X-box live does. Also, obviously, downloading stuff is pointless as well.

The only good news out of that is the fact that the final Dev Kits are out. Whether they're actually more powerful then the devs thought or not isn't all that important to me, either, as I'm primarily an RPG fan when it comes to consoles. I really don't need graphics to get any better.

PantherModern

02-03-2006, 06:35 AM

Given the lack of announced Hard Disk support, I am gonna guess that the DVR thing will have to be an additional add-on. If it functions like the 360 and requires a supported computer, then I guess that is one thing. Honestly, most of this stuff really smells like smoke being blown up everyone's ass.

And if this machine is so damn impressive, lets see some screenshots, or some more real-time footage. MGS4 was impressive, but that is Kojima and his team of people that never sleep, and he said that the game could be run on the 360 pretty easily.

This is going to be an interesting E3.

Scaryboy

02-03-2006, 06:37 AM

This all feels pretty much in line with the idea that Sony is marketing the PS3 as a multimedia hub kajigger first and a games machine second. I'm curious what "Beyond Live" means though as that seems like a pretty complete service to me.

Edit: And yes, between the unveiling of the PS3 and the Revo, this is going to be one the best E3's EVAR!!11!

Reanimated

02-03-2006, 06:39 AM

Sounds like another pile of PSM bullshit to me.

UT2k7 PS3 launch title anyone?

Alex

02-03-2006, 06:44 AM

Remember (http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20010517/ps201_02.jpg) when (http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20010519/e3p2203.jpg) Sony said the same exact stuff about the PS2?

disc

02-03-2006, 06:50 AM

Well the PS2 did have linux.

Reanimated

02-03-2006, 06:58 AM

Oh those kooky liars over at sony! Always good for a laugh.

crashedout

02-03-2006, 07:01 AM

Sounds like another pile of PSM bullshit to me.

UT2k7 PS3 launch title anyone?

I agree, did Ken Kutaragi write the article? None the less, if these "facts" are proven to be true, it will still take some time before they work correctly. No software releases bug free and systems of this scale, DVR and Live-like, are very hard to get correct even with years of expereince. I hope they show something before E3 but I doubt it.

Atorak

02-03-2006, 07:03 AM

* Will act as a DVR

DVR huh? Well, I hope there's at least a 100GB hard drive included in the PS3, otherwise this feature is useless. If the PS3 comes with a comperably-sized hd like the 360, I MIGHT be able to record one or two hours of LOST in HD.

Sorry, no deal breaker here. Does anyone else wish Sony would just focus their efforts on gaming for the PS3, instead of finding more ways to justify a higher price when it hits the market? Gee, a PVR too...how much more is that going to cost us, the consumer? Oh. No thanks.

mightbe

02-03-2006, 07:06 AM

Meh, I still love my TiVo. Backoff PS3!

Dr Quincy

02-03-2006, 07:18 AM

Well the PS2 did have linux.

So does the PS3.

Silversmith

02-03-2006, 07:19 AM

Sony and Microsoft are headed in the same direction and we all know that games, not features will tell the tale. Sony is overshooting what Microsoft already accomplished. That going to end up having unused features and allot of bugs. No one can ever believe that Sony will have a great online service right out of the box. It take time and matrutiy to make the serivce great. XBL has a few years under it's belt. I believe that sony will have their first batch of Blu' ray games will be better than Microsoft DVD (Graphically atleast), yet XBLA will dominate in the mini-game war. (Sony's answer to Geometry wars, anyone?) I think it was smart of microsoft to decentrize most of their multimedia (Windows media center Extenderm,ipod, etc.) functions, but they restricted video to Media Center Edition (sux!).

Sony has notted XBL's power and will cram everything into they PS3 to make it "look" better. Personnally I would rather see sony connected with mythtv or TIVO and to use it in the way Msoft has done with MCE.

In the future, centralized media storage in home will be the way to go and have devices talk to it. Having one company be the holy grail of media (Sony) is not the way to go, However some are dominating the space (Apple).

BabyJesus

02-03-2006, 07:32 AM

Remember (http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20010517/ps201_02.jpg) when (http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20010519/e3p2203.jpg) Sony said the same exact stuff about the PS2?

hahaha.. Thats a funny slide...

ChunderMan

02-03-2006, 07:33 AM

Although I'm always happy to find out about a new system's features, I still find it more than a little depressing that almost none of that is related to games...

Morratut

02-03-2006, 07:47 AM

I hope Sony do bring out a Live type service.

However I don't believe them. Only when its out and people around me are saying 'oh wow I loved playing co-op Devil May Cry last night. I was Dante and my friend was Nelo Angelo and we kicked ass!'.

Only then will I believe.;)

TrackZero

02-03-2006, 07:47 AM

So sony is going to counter the physical release of the 360 with fairy dust and snake oil?

Just like they do every time.

Dr Quincy

02-03-2006, 07:48 AM

All hail the coming of the home entertainment unit.

bapenguin

02-03-2006, 07:49 AM

ok, this sounds great. IT also soundsl ike the PSX with online capabilities. ANd it sounds very expensive.

Grifter

02-03-2006, 07:56 AM

I think microsoft got it right. They gave me just enough features to take the console up a notch but didn't overload it with shit I don't need. I do wish that I didn't need MCE to stream video though.

If sony were to copy Microsoft almost exactly I would love it. That way we could get the best of both worlds without a bunch of half assed features that will double the price of the console and possible cause alot more problems than it's worth.

It's like the console dvd drives: it's a nice feature that doesn't get in the way of the machines ability to play games but most of the time I will use a dedicated player. with the PS3 I feel the same, if I want a tivo I will by a fucking tivo and get alot more options at a much higher quality. JUST SHOW ME THE DAMN GAMES ALREADY AAARRRRHHHH!!!!

Sorry the whole patience thing hasn't been working out for me lately

Stormwatcher

02-03-2006, 08:12 AM

Wow, that's a laundry list of lies... Mind you, I have no bias between Sony and MS, but stating that whatever online thing they have will go beyond live is a little hard to believe without further evidence. But let us see.

fitbabits

02-03-2006, 08:18 AM

ok, this sounds great. IT also soundsl ike the PSX with online capabilities. ANd it sounds very expensive.
That was what I first thought as well - are people really going to want to shed out heaps of cash for a machine (not just a console) that doesn't appear to offer anything significantly better than what's already out there?

AspectVoid

02-03-2006, 08:22 AM

fitbabits

02-03-2006, 08:28 AM

You know, I got a question. Only about 10% to 20% of people who actually own consoles play online. Why is everyone talking about a feature that's really only for a small part of the market as though its a make or break for the system as a whole? I can understand why EvAv, being an online community, would find it important, but why do you all think that its something that will kill the system? I, being one of those who doesn't play online, am interested in why you all believe this.
I believe the hullabaloo is to do with the future of gaming as some people see it. A utopian dream where everyone is online and puppies are not used for smuggling drugs from South America. :)

Reanimated

02-03-2006, 08:29 AM

I, being one of those who doesn't play online

Guild Wars:
Tallon Phoenixheart
Calis Sinblade

You're not interested in online play at all??

fitbabits

02-03-2006, 08:31 AM

Guild Wars:
Tallon Phoenixheart
Calis Sinblade

You're not interested in online play at all??
I think he meant playing online with consoles, but I could be wrong.

Reanimated

02-03-2006, 08:34 AM

Point missed...

What's the difference?

Scaryboy

02-03-2006, 08:42 AM

..are people really going to want to shed out heaps of cash for a machine (not just a console) that doesn't appear to offer anything significantly better than what's already out there?

Welcome to the twisted mind of the mainstreamer: "If it's more expensive, it's more exclusive. If it's more exclusive, me want - ME WAAANNNNTTTTT."
Look at fashion and it's accessories, do brand names actually have a better product than the cheap no name brands? Nope, it's all about perception and how people feel about the product, the more out of reach it feels the more people will want it. Sony own the hearts and minds of a huge majority of gamers these days and can totally get away with this kind of tactic.

Wonka

02-03-2006, 08:47 AM

How are they going to do a DVR?

Are they going to add a tuner in there too???

BabyJesus

02-03-2006, 08:53 AM

Haha, and you guys thought $399 for a premium XBOX 360 was expensive.. I can't wait to see the price on that puppy, if it ever sees the light of day that is...Which I wholeheartedly doubt...

Dr Quincy

02-03-2006, 09:03 AM

Haha, and you guys thought $399 for a premium XBOX 360 was expensive.. I can't wait to see the price on that puppy, if it ever sees the light of day that is...Which I wholeheartedly doubt...

But if it did... if it did it would truely be a thing of beauty.

Morratut

02-03-2006, 09:08 AM

Guild Wars:
Tallon Phoenixheart
Calis Sinblade

You're not interested in online play at all??

Lol. Excellent. It's the same motivations whether on PC or console. Would you buy a PC that was unable to go online? I wouldn't. The Xbox and the 360 has raised the bar for me now.

I probably won't buy a PS3 at launch if they don't have a great online service along the lines of Live.

I expect great connectivity in my consoles nowadays :cool:

Citizen Philip

02-03-2006, 09:12 AM

Point missed...

What's the difference?

Around 200 games or so?

rein

02-03-2006, 09:15 AM

Not sure why it has to be so expensive? DVRs are not that expensive. It's not like they even said it was a full featured DVR. So what ..it is a little software for them to add. How does this make it so expensive? As for them not having a hard drive. Well... ..I guess a two sku release will be all the rage. Now, if Sony let's just hope Sony uses standard hard drives so the extra $100 will buy some storage space instead of 13 gb of free space.

Steele Johnson

02-03-2006, 09:16 AM

Sony has the biggest hype machine ever created. And usually it's all BS.

Sony can KMA. No matter what they say, I'm still buying a 360. And when the PS3 comes out and lives up to the hype, I may buy that as well. But for now, it's all BS until I see it.

Roc Ingersol

02-03-2006, 09:24 AM

Wth is this? I have to download hidef content now?
I thought I was going to be able to upload my old content and Sony would age it for me?

Balthasar

02-03-2006, 09:39 AM

Hahahaha.... Sony, the kind of DRM, is going to put a DVR in your living room?
How is DRM and a DVR mututally exclusive?

Wonka

02-03-2006, 09:39 AM

I have never seen any inputs for TV on the back of any of the PS3 prototypes. Also, wasn't the HDD an add on? These things lead me to believe that any sort of PVR "features" are going to require an add-on peripheral...

Balthasar

02-03-2006, 09:50 AM

Point missed...

What's the difference?
How much do you pay to play Guild Wars online?

That's the difference.

Balthasar

02-03-2006, 09:51 AM

I have never seen any inputs for TV on the back of any of the PS3 prototypes.
Prototype.

Grimmjow

02-03-2006, 09:57 AM

Its funny to see alot of people say sonys features are going to have alot of "bugs" and might not work, do you honestly think that they JUST implimented these features and havent been testing them out? come on, think logically, i think its a possibility that they just kepted it a hushush type thing...i do love my sony BUT i do acknowledge that there gonna have competition this "war" around.

Borys

02-03-2006, 09:59 AM

NEVER EVER trust any source that has the name of the console in their title.

OPM, PSM, OXM, TXB etc.

All fanboi wishes.

Jacob Singer

02-03-2006, 09:59 AM

Sony makes stand-alone dvrs in the $500-$2000 range. I can't see them putting any kind of useful dvr into a game console.

Returner

02-03-2006, 10:05 AM

"Does anyone else wish Sony would just focus their efforts on gaming for the PS3"

God wouldn't that be nice.

AspectVoid

02-03-2006, 10:06 AM

Guild Wars:
Tallon Phoenixheart
Calis Sinblade

You're not interested in online play at all??

That is the sole online game I play, and even then I'm only in once every couple of weeks if I'm lucky these days. I'm just too lazy to delete my sig. So, yeah, I'm really not big on multiplayer and if no console had it, it wouldn't effect me at all.

Kelegacy

02-03-2006, 10:10 AM

How is DRM and a DVR mututally exclusive?
You mean: How are DRM and DVR not mutually exclusive. If they are mutually exclusive, that means they have no relation to one another. Which is what you want to argue, I'm guessing.

lost

02-03-2006, 10:27 AM

Ever get the feeling bullshit online "Sony is full of crap" threads like this are the reason they have been keeping pretty tight about information this gen. At least contributary?

This is from a possibly unreliable source so we should perhaps just stroke our game beards and go "OK, lets see what happens" rather than slating a company that didn't even tell you this shit?

Calm down, stroke your 360's fan boys and wait and see.

Dr Quincy

02-03-2006, 10:28 AM

Sony makes stand-alone dvrs in the $500-$2000 range. I can't see them putting any kind of useful dvr into a game console.

What about a PlayStation 3 in the $500-$2000 range?

Sl1pstream

02-03-2006, 10:51 AM

Calm down, stroke your 360's fan boys and wait and see.

Do you have to be a MS fanboy to realize that Sony lies most of the time?

Kamalot

02-03-2006, 11:02 AM

Think of it this way:

PSP is a poor video player, playing expensive and proprietary UMDs or lower-resolution videos off of an expensive and small-capacity proprietary memory stick.
PSP is a poor music player with the most bare function set, even fewer functions than most cheap, tiny Chinese players. Music, like video, is plagued by the proprietary memory stick format.
The PSP Web browser is worse than that on most mobile phones.
PSP Text entry is the worst possible combination of on-screen keyboard and T9 without leveraging the strengths of either.
PSP Game selection sucks and play is plagued with long load times and short battery life.
PSP was promised to have GPS integration and a slew of other features that never saw the light of day, much like the poorly conceived and implemented PS2 hard drive.

All in all, the PSP does many things and does none of them well.

One can extrapolate based on historical evidence that the PS3 is going to be a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none.

Do you really expect a PS3 to make a better Tivo than Tivo? Do you really expect it to have a better Microsoft Live than Microsoft Live? Do you really expect it to have all of these features better than the competition?

All I ask is they everyone keep their head. Sony is in serious financial trouble and they are betting the farm on this one product. Think of it as the Homer Mobile (http://www.megahobby.com/Modeling_Zone/Snap_City/POL4000.jpg), a product designed with features for everyone but appealing to nobody.

Now is a good time for everyone to read the Lost Garden article about why convergence is a dirty word.

http://lostgarden.com/2005/12/convergence-great-word-to-hate.html

Balthasar

02-03-2006, 11:04 AM

You mean: How are DRM and DVR not mutually exclusive. If they are mutually exclusive, that means they have no relation to one another. Which is what you want to argue, I'm guessing.
Nope. What I am saying is, Sony's DRM stance has nothing to do with their ability to put out a DVR. On the other hand, they aren't always mutually exclusive, as DRM is often used in DVRs, so you are half right.

Kamalot

02-03-2006, 11:06 AM

That is the sole online game I play, and even then I'm only in once every couple of weeks if I'm lucky these days. I'm just too lazy to delete my sig. So, yeah, I'm really not big on multiplayer and if no console had it, it wouldn't effect me at all.
This sounds like a 'sour grapes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_grapes)' excuse to me.

Kelegacy

02-03-2006, 11:31 AM

Nope. What I am saying is, Sony's DRM stance has nothing to do with their ability to put out a DVR. On the other hand, they aren't always mutually exclusive, as DRM is often used in DVRs, so you are half right.
I think you're confusing the meaning of "mutually exclusive", or at the very least, misunderstood what I tried to say. Hell, you've already confused me so that I don't even know what's going on anymore! Haha, my brain hurts.

All I ask is they everyone keep their head. Sony is in serious financial trouble and they are betting the farm on this one product. Think of it as the Homer Mobile (http://www.megahobby.com/Modeling_Z...ity/POL4000.jpg), a product designed with features for everyone but appealing to nobody

Sony is in serious financial trouble? I think you're overstressing their financial position...and by overstressing I mean you are left-field wrong. If the PS3 fails (and it wont), or if the PS3 falls behind the Xbox (which it wont), a PS4 WILL happen. They aren't as in dire straights as some people would like to believe.

lost

02-03-2006, 11:33 AM

Do you have to be a MS fanboy to realize that Sony lies most of the time?

It was a comment directed at those argueing against these possible features due to allegiance with XBox, not to everyone.

Kamalot

02-03-2006, 11:34 AM

Sony isn't going away, but any company that lays off 10,000 employees is in serious financial trouble.

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8582&highlight=sony+layoff

DoubleUranium

02-03-2006, 11:47 AM

Using the awesome power of the Cell processor Sony will be able to store 100 hours of PVR video on a single PS3 memory card. And it will blow you every time you turn it on.

Achilles

02-03-2006, 11:59 AM

To act as a DVR it would need a tuner card, or some kind of video input. It didn’t have one listed in the spec.

Lots of made up stuff, yay.

Though the stuff about being able to download movies, music, etc is something that Sony has been saying for a while that they’re trying to do. MS could do the same thing with Market Place, and some 3rd parties have (the ridge racer sound track is up there). I'd download Smallville on my PS3 if I had the chance.

Kamalot

02-03-2006, 12:15 PM

"Kutaragi said that he sees the PS2 as a new distribution system for music and movies. Sony Music Entertainment Japan's CEO Shigeo Maruyama told IDG News Service that his company is readying Internet music services for the PS2"

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9909/14/ps2.idg/index.html...

----

"Kazuo Hirai, the president and chief executive officer of Sony Computer Entertainment America, introduced the system and explained that, far beyond gaming, he saw the device as an access device for electronic distribution of digital content. Initially this will include PlayStation 2 games but could also be expanded to, "music, motion pictures and new forms of entertainment not yet developed." ...

...PlayStation 2 blurred the boundary between gaming, home entertainment and network access devices, Sony's big task now is to educate the general public that the device is much more than just a game console. Success here could drive the device into homes in the same way the original PlayStation vastly expanded the market for game machines beyond the traditional buyers."

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9911/16/comdex.idei.keynote.idg/index.html

----

Don't be fooled. This PS3 'info' is the same old set of lies and garbage Sony promotes. Even IF these features eventually come out, they will be as successful at taking over standard DVRs as Sony's efforts at taking over iPods and iTunes.

Kamalot

02-03-2006, 12:19 PM

The absolute SADDEST part of this is how many people will read the article and FALL for the HYPE.

BabyJesus

02-03-2006, 12:29 PM

The absolute SADDEST part of this is how many people will read the article and FALL for the HYPE.

True enough. :eek:

fitbabits

02-03-2006, 12:32 PM

The absolute SADDEST part of this is how many people will read the article and FALL for the HYPE.
Heck, I read the articel 14 times and I believe EVERY WORD! So much so that I put a deposit down on it at my local Wal-Mart and have decided to name my first-born after the father of PlayStation - Bill Gates! :)

Balthasar

02-03-2006, 12:38 PM

I think you're confusing the meaning of "mutually exclusive", or at the very least, misunderstood what I tried to say. Hell, you've already confused me so that I don't even know what's going on anymore! Haha, my brain hurts.

Let's back up then. The guy I was reponding to said Sony's stance on DRM would somehow make it unlikely that they would produce a DVR. Initially, I was calling him out on that, because DRM is not a natural impediment to a DVR. Which is why you were half right, because I meant to say "how are they not mutually exclusive?" On the other hand, most DVR's don't allow you to view the content on any other device, so in a way they are not mutually exclusive. Either way, that guy didn't know what he was talking about.

Exodus

02-03-2006, 12:54 PM

Kamalot

02-03-2006, 01:08 PM

Heck, I read the articel 14 times and I believe EVERY WORD! So much so that I put a deposit down on it at my local Wal-Mart and have decided to name my first-born after the father of PlayStation - Bill Gates! :)
Heh

I'm not talking about us, the (mildly) informed, but the people who's only source of information is purchasing the magazine.

You know the people I speak about, the same ones that bought the 50-Cent game.

AspectVoid

02-03-2006, 01:11 PM

This sounds like a 'sour grapes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_grapes)' excuse to me.

Actually, it's simply because I don't get anything out of it. When I was younger I played with my friends all the time because in school the next day we'd chat and laugh about the things that happened. We're spread all over the world now, can't find time when we can get together, and we certainly can't sit around and laugh about it the next day. Just playing and walking away isn't any fun for me.

Heretic Machine

02-03-2006, 01:28 PM

Let me just make one thing clear, I don't have brand loyalty anymore, I've ditched that whole idea. I'm not even going to hold grudges for previous mistakes made by console makers, new generation, new game. If Sony can pull off DVR funcitonality at an acceptable level, great, they'll definetly bump their console way up on my priority list. I've been quite annoyed at the fact that my 360 can't function as a DVR, despite it having all the equipment needed to do so.

But, the simple fact of the matter is that Sony tends to stretch the truth, so until I see the final product, I'm not going to be able to hold in my skepticism. Especially with such lofty promises.

Nite_Moogle

02-03-2006, 01:35 PM

Let's back up then. The guy I was reponding to said Sony's stance on DRM would somehow make it unlikely that they would produce a DVR. Initially, I was calling him out on that, because DRM is not a natural impediment to a DVR. Which is why you were half right, because I meant to say "how are they not mutually exclusive?" On the other hand, most DVR's don't allow you to view the content on any other device, so in a way they are not mutually exclusive. Either way, that guy didn't know what he was talking about.
Nowhere in my post did I say they wouldn't do it. I have a hard time buying it because I don't see it being worth a damn if they do. DRM is impediment to DVRing in the same way that DRM is an impediment to putting music on a portable music player. If your player doesn't support the DRM that's stamped on your music, you're boned. Any bets on whether or not the DRM put into the hypothetical PS3 DRM is proprietary to Sony devices? Do you suppose recorded content might only play back on the PS3 or PSP? What good is that if I want to watch it on my video iPod? Why shouldn't I be able to copy it to my Vista PC to burn it on a DVD?
Why would a company that puts DRM on all of its products and is notoriously hard-lined about letting you share your media to any other device put a device in their gaming console that would let you make copies of copyrighted materials like Sony movies that air on cable networks? Do you seriously think that they are going to make it a wide open DVR like MythTV that has any semblance of portability? More importantly, do you seriously think they are going to put DVR capability in a device that doesn't have a hard drive?

Balthasar

02-03-2006, 01:36 PM

Now is a good time for everyone to read the Lost Garden article about why convergence is a dirty word.

http://lostgarden.com/2005/12/convergence-great-word-to-hate.html
That's curious logic. Because something has not been very successful before means it will never be successful? Who ever knew computers could function as typewriters, calculators, stereos, video game machines, telephones, and many other things I haven't mentioned? Crazy.

Also, I find it interesting that this article lists the iPod as a good example of a non-convergent device. Interesting, considering the increased demand of iPods with the new 5G video-capable model.

Balthasar

02-03-2006, 01:39 PM

Nowhere in my post did I say they wouldn't do it.
I clearly said "unlikely."

DRM is impediment to DVRing in the same way that DRM is an impediment to putting music on a portable music player.
Is it common practice now for DVR's to allow you to make copies of that content?

If your player doesn't support the DRM that's stamped on your music, you're boned.
Do you know everything you purchace on iTunes is protected by FairPlay?

Any bets on whether or not the DRM put into the hypothetical PS3 DRM is proprietary to Sony devices? Do you suppose recorded content might only play back on the PS3 or PSP? What good is that if I want to watch it on my video iPod?
What good is the music you download off iTunes if you can't play it in another mp3 device?

KNOTE

02-03-2006, 06:36 PM

I believe everything I read on the internets. It's all TRUE!

bone_matrix

02-03-2006, 08:43 PM

You know, I got a question. Only about 10% to 20% of people who actually own consoles play online. Why is everyone talking about a feature that's really only for a small part of the market as though its a make or break for the system as a whole? I can understand why EvAv, being an online community, would find it important, but why do you all think that its something that will kill the system? I, being one of those who doesn't play online, am interested in why you all believe this.

I tend to think of online as I do HD tvs. Sure, not everyone plays online, or has HD tvs, but once they do, they don't want to go back. :D More and more people will buy HD tvs, just like more and more people will go online. The more people online, the more people to play against. The better the service, all the more people will join. (I don't think thats proper English, but I don't care, long day of work.)

Sensei-X

02-03-2006, 08:54 PM

Final dev kits have shipped and prove to be more powerful than anticipated (according to unnamed developers who wished to remain anonymous)

Whoa, those are sure some hard facts, and by developers they probably meant the friends of the son of a janitor down at Capcom.

Kamalot

02-03-2006, 10:38 PM

Here's another question...

If your PS3 is a DVR, will it record shows while you are playing a game or watching a DVD?

With a DVD, DVD player and game system in my home, I can record my shows without having to give up my game time or pause my movie.

Dracula-X

02-04-2006, 02:34 AM

PSP is a poor video player, playing expensive and proprietary UMDs or lower-resolution videos off of an expensive and small-capacity proprietary memory stick.
PSP is a poor music player with the most bare function set, even fewer functions than most cheap, tiny Chinese players. Music, like video, is plagued by the proprietary memory stick format.
The PSP Web browser is worse than that on most mobile phones.
PSP Text entry is the worst possible combination of on-screen keyboard and T9 without leveraging the strengths of either.
PSP Game selection sucks and play is plagued with long load times and short battery life.
PSP was promised to have GPS integration and a slew of other features that never saw the light of day, much like the poorly conceived and implemented PS2 hard drive.
The PSP plays video and music quite nicely. While I agree in UMD prices are higher than they should be, this is typical of newer releases. Waiting pays off, lower priced UMDs can be had. I've seen some go for $14(US) and I've heard of lower. Same go for memsticks. Last year 2gig memsticks used to be $400+(US). Now they've dropped to as low as about $120(US) (got mine for $129, but prices are falling all the time), with the 4 and 8gig memsticks announced, prices will plummet again. As of firmware 2.6, the PSP supports the native resolution for vids on memstick, so you can scratch that off your Anti-Sony list of diatribes. Memsticks aren't that proprietary, they're FAT formatted, and produced by Lexar and Sandisk for mobile phones, digital cameras, compact camcorders, etc. The PSP browser has seen significant improvements with firmware updates and will continue to improve. Most everyone seems to manage with text entry without problem. The game library is subjective. The library is good and lots of great titles out now or on the horizon. Load times vary wildly, many games have little to none, too. Oddly, I don't seem to have a problem with battery life either. All I remember was a prototype GPS peripheral, don't recall anything about integration, and it's still early in the handheld life, maybe it is still to come? Links about this promise?

Sony is in serious financial trouble and they are betting the farm on this one product.Around $570 million 3rd quarter profits begs to differ. (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9234) Thanks to the Bravias and PSP.

Sony isn't going away, but any company that lays off 10,000 employees is in serious financial trouble.It's called restructuring. Trimming the fat or losing dead weight, if you will. It's a move in the right direction. Also, the jobs have not been cut just yet, it's a gradual cut through 2008, those employees are still around and have time to plan for the cut, thankfully - which is a lot more than can be said for job cuts we've seen in other areas of the industry of late.

Lastly, the PS2's online distribution plans (excluding your quote for space) were delayed inevitably due to a very slow broadband adoption rate. In 2004 there was less than 50% broadband penetration (US). Going further back in 2003, the International Telecommunication Union (http://www.itu.int/osg/spu/publications/sales/birthofbroadband/index.html) reported that broadband penetration was half what it should have been for the US alone. If you can cut through that bullshit haze of fanboi hate for Sony clouding your mind, you might now start to understand why the online plans didn't come to fruition.

mister_slim

02-04-2006, 04:00 AM

I think Sony's going to surprise people with the PS3, but I'm not going to pay much attention to PSM.

Twigz'N'Berries

02-04-2006, 08:28 AM

An Online service that goes beyond Live
Will act as a DVR
Final dev kits have shipped and prove to be more powerful than anticipated (according to unnamed developers who wished to remain anonymous)
An "iTunes-like" service for downloading Hi-def movies, music, etc.
Fall release date for ps3with no announced date for the online service (but it is expected to launch with the system)
I only assume bulletpoint one would mean that it would be broadband only. It would have to be to compete with Live.

If it will act as a DVR, it will need a lot of memory. Flashcards and usb drives won't cut it. So, I have to assume there will be a harddrive version...even though earlier rumors contradicted it. Plus, it should be a rather large drive if it is going to encompass movies, games saves, downloadable movies, etc.

The developer kit thing....really isn't saying much. If you expected to eat a crap sandwich, but got a crap sandwich with sprinkles on top, at least you would appreciate the sprinkles. The proof will lie in the games...which would be awesome if we saw any.

Fall release date...that means anywhere from Sep 21-Dec 20. Kind of sounds like the PS3 will be launching a year after the Xbox360.

Well, in all honesty, the only thing from Sony I care to listen to from Sony is a firm release date. I look at everything they say with skepticism.

absolut taco

02-04-2006, 09:46 AM

And it will blow you every time you turn it on.
Sold!

bla bla short message

mister_slim

02-05-2006, 04:19 PM

If it will act as a DVR, it will need a lot of memory. Flashcards and usb drives won't cut it. So, I have to assume there will be a harddrive version...even though earlier rumors contradicted it. Plus, it should be a rather large drive if it is going to encompass movies, games saves, downloadable movies, etc.
It's already confirmed that there will be an optional hard drive of substantial size.

Kamalot

02-05-2006, 07:02 PM

It's already confirmed that there will be an optional hard drive of substantial size.
http://www.engadget.com/2005/06/09/kutaragi-confirms-ps3-hdd-will-be-add-on-and-will-run-linux/

So we heard grumblings of this last week, and now we've got it straight from the Kutaragi's mouth, plus a few other interesting details. The PlayStation 3 won't be coming with an internal hard drive, because "no matter how much [capacity] we put in it, it won't be enough." Glossing over for the moment the curious logic of imagining zero capacity is somehow better than "not enough," we move on to the news that there will likely be at least several add-on HDD options available, both locally in a 2.5-inch drive bay and in the form of some sort of network drive. Furthermore, the (optional/add-on yet curiously mandatory) hard drive will run some sort of operating system, which will likely be Linux by default — but Kutaragi envisions other operating systems running on top of the Cell kernel as applications: "other PC operating systems can run too, such as Windows and Tiger, if the publishers want to do so." Remember back when the PS3 moved out of the class of game consoles and into the class of entertainment machines? Well, now it's a full-blown supercomputer. A supercomputer running multiple OSes… on an optional hard drive? Commence head scratching…

Well, we all know how WILDLY successful the optional hard drive was for the PS2...

mister_slim

02-06-2006, 07:50 PM

http://www.engadget.com/2005/06/09/kutaragi-confirms-ps3-hdd-will-be-add-on-and-will-run-linux/

Well, we all know how WILDLY successful the optional hard drive was for the PS2...
Do you have some point you're trying to make?

Kamalot

02-07-2006, 10:30 AM

Sl1pstream

02-07-2006, 11:14 AM

They did drop the HD with their slimline version. Even if people wanted to buy the HD and eventually found one, they couldn't use it.

mister_slim

02-07-2006, 04:48 PM

I thought I did. Before the launch of the PS2, the hard drive was confirmed, just as confirmed as it is with the PS3; it isn't launching with the system.

The PS3 hard drive will be just as successful as the PS2 hard drive-not successful at all.
Yeah, but I wasn't talking about the success of the PS3 hard drive. Are you saying there won't be one? Because there was a PS2 hard drive, even if it was underutilized and then mostly abandoned.

If we're going to base our conclusions on the past, Xbox Live will be a failure because less than 15% of Xbox owners used it.

Kamalot

02-08-2006, 08:54 AM

If we're going to base our conclusions on the past, Xbox Live will be a failure because less than 15% of Xbox owners used it.

Can you please provide the % of people that purchased the PS2 Hard Drive expansion? That would be interesting to compare.

Balthasar

02-08-2006, 09:32 AM

Can you please provide the % of people that purchased the PS2 Hard Drive expansion? That would be interesting to compare.
I'm not clear on what that would actually prove. No one stated the PS2 HDD was successful.

Kamalot

02-08-2006, 01:39 PM

I'm not clear on what that would actually prove. No one stated the PS2 HDD was successful.
I wasn't asking to prove anything. I asked because I would find it interesting.

Kamalot

02-08-2006, 01:46 PM

Lastly, the PS2's online distribution plans (excluding your quote for space) were delayed inevitably due to a very slow broadband adoption rate. In 2004 there was less than 50% broadband penetration (US). Going further back in 2003, the International Telecommunication Union (http://www.itu.int/osg/spu/publications/sales/birthofbroadband/index.html) reported that broadband penetration was half what it should have been for the US alone.
This is really funny. Maybe it was too early last generation to really expect a large percentage of the gaming population to have broadband at home. Am I correct in reading that it was a strategic decision not to push the online network for the PS2? It would be a good company decision, and one that Nintendo made as well. ;-)