PS3 Slim Official, Penny Pinchers Rejoice

[pwnophobia]

Its official! The new model is said to be 33% smaller, 36% lighter and has a 120 GB HDD will sell at $299 USD and 299 euros.

After months of rumors and leaks, Sony has officially announced a revised, slimmer model of the PlayStation 3 that will arrive at retailers in the first week of September.

The new model, said to be one-third smaller, will sell at $299 USD and 299 euros. The included internal hard disc drive will be 120GB in capacity, and the system is billed as having the same functionality as the hardware currently in stores--meaning that you shouldn't expect backwards compatibility with PlayStation 2 games.

via Shacknews (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/60043)

I may be able to finally afford a PS3..../swoon

[lockwoodx]

and if this was the model they launched the Ps3 as, they would have won this generation.

[Hawkbat]

Oh, so we're paying $420 for it? Anyone surprised? Did'nt think so....Damn, this could sorely tempt me when I'm in the states two weeks from now...

[Hawkbat]

Sorry, it would'nt be a pricing thread without a European/Canadian/Australian complaining how we getting screwed on price....

[Mr.Gurbic]

The 360 has always been equally as expensive.

[Froggy]

And the rest of us feel like idiots for buying them so soon in the life-cycle.

[Neoexidous]

I forecast sales increases of up to 100%. ;) Words for thought.

[pwnophobia]

I forecast sales increases of up to 100%. ;) Words for thought.

They already have my money. I need September to get here.

[brandonjclark]

They already have my money. I need September to get here.


Wow, I think I'm actually going to get onboard. Anyone suggest a best, first game?

[brandonjclark]

On another note, HOLY SHIT IS THAT FUCKER SEXY!

Lockwoodx is right, where was this at launch?

[shadow763]

Ok, well I expect a massive sales boost of about 20 million units as everyone who promised to get one post price drop picks one up. I mean they did give their word.

And the rest of us feel like idiots for buying them so soon in the life-cycle.

I dont feel like an idiot at all. I spent 500 big ones on mine and its my favorite system this gen based on functionality and feature set. Worth every penny. Its used exhaustively daily.

[oldjadedgamer]

Today is the day that Sony finally enters the next generation. Finally, NPD will be interesting again.

[Jotoco]

Oh, so we're paying $420 for it? Anyone surprised? Did'nt think so....Damn, this could sorely tempt me when I'm in the states two weeks from now...

The standard, non-bundle, 80Gb PS3 here goes usually at R$1800,00 OR, around U$972,90 (as per the exchange rate now).

It costs around 4 (FOUR) time the minimum wage here.

[BalekFekete]

Wow, I think I'm actually going to get onboard. Anyone suggest a best, first game?

There's quite a few solid titles, depending on what you enjoy. Like first person shooters? Killzone 2 is a lot of fun with some solid DLC already delivered. Have kids? Then LBP is an instant win for family night gaming sessions. More of a sandbox type of person? Then InFAMOUS is well worth he purchase price.

[vallor]

Fantastic! I don't have any regrets for buying mine a year ago cause it rocked as a blu-ray player but I'm glad to see this new inexpensive version in sexy hardware.

As a side note, anyone know what the state of backward compatibility is with the slim?

[bskeillor]

I waited to get a PS3 until Uncharted came out. I would say that's a perfect place to start as it is now a GH title and cheap. Then you'll be ready for the sequel.

[Julio]

No more spiderman font?

[Neoexidous]

I'm glad to see this new inexpensive version in sexy hardware.

Sexy? That is if you like to straddle black flooring tiles. :?

[King Drewsky]

Why does it look so Ghetto? It looks like something you would pick up on the black market in Malaysia with a name like FunStation 3 or something.

[lost]

It is lovely. I'd be tempted to trade up if I was so confident of my units reliability and shifting data over wouldn't be possible. Great to see people getting ready to enjoy the delights of MGS4, Uncharted 1/2, Killzone 2 and all the rest.

Very nice but I think I'll keep my original just to be financially sensible. Curious about the UK price given that there has been a £299 model here for a while.

[Nainz]

Wow, I think I'm actually going to get onboard. Anyone suggest a best, first game?

UNCHARTED!

[geckokidd]

That's good news for gamers everywhere. I enjoy the hell out of mine and I paid 600 dollars for the damn thing.

[Jotoco]

I find it elegant when they say you can't install new OS's.

At least in the first 12~24hours of sale, they may be right.

[Nainz]

And the rest of us feel like idiots for buying them so soon in the life-cycle.

No, we paid $300 more to have them in 2006 as opposed to 2009.

Everyone knew a price drop would happen eventually. It always does.

[captainspankypants]

So... does it play PS2 games or what?

[landshark42]

No, we paid $300 more to have them in 2006 as opposed to 2009.

Everyone knew a price drop would happen eventually. It always does.

We also got BC in 2006. But, the PS3 slim does have a flat top so you can put your PS2 on top of it!

[BlueBomber]

I am seriously considering trading in my launch 60gb unit for one of these. I haven't put a single PS2 game in there since I got it.

Do you guys think I could potentially make a profit doing this?

[landshark42]

I am seriously considering trading in my launch 60gb unit for one of these. I haven't put a single PS2 game in there since I got it.

Do you guys think I could potentially make a profit doing this?

Last I checked 60GB go for at least $400. I doubt the price drop will change that much.

And I guess I was wrong about the flat top, looking at the pictures more closely they kept the curved top. So I guess the PS2 (for those who care) goes on the bottom.

[bean19]

Awesome-sauce! When do the PS3 Slims come out?

pwnophobia - Why did you go out of your way to shorten the paragraph? It is very interesting information that the PS3 Slim will not have backwards compatibility. Many people have been saying that this is a key feature for them (It is NOT a key feature for me). The obvious omission of this big detail seems like you made it for a reason. Are you planning another story on this or something?

[Mr. Lake]

http://www.shacknews.com/images/image-o-matic.x?/images/sshots/Screenshot/12609/12609_4a8af5474e679.jpghttp://www.shacknews.com/images/image-o-matic.x?/images/sshots/Screenshot/12609/12609_4a8af54fe81a2.jpg
Aesthetics are even less pleasing now than the original. Can a PLEASE have console I can rest my MntDew on?

[pwnophobia]

Awesome-sauce! When do the PS3 Slims come out?

pwnophobia - Why did you go out of your way to shorten the paragraph? It is very interesting information that the PS3 Slim will not have backwards compatibility. Many people have been saying that this is a key feature for them (It is NOT a key feature for me). The obvious omission of this big detail seems like you made it for a reason. Are you planning another story on this or something?

Shacknews has updated their article since I posted it.

[dimsumx]

On another note, HOLY SHIT IS THAT FUCKER SEXY!

Lockwoodx is right, where was this at launch?

Oh sure, it's 'sexy' NOW! Let's go back a few months ago when the pics were first leaked and see some choice comments:

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85000
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3174223

"It's probably one of those fake things you buy at the market with the amazing games they have pre-installed on it."

"I hope it's fake, cause it fucking UGLY! Flat as cardboard, except for its rounded top. Yeah, rounded top. That works perfectly in my entertainment system"

"looks like a pirate fake "non-PS3""

"I can't understand why chinese people make such bad things, copies?"

"I don't think anyone here denies the fact that Sony is working on a PS3 Slim. Most of us agree, however, that this isn't it, due to the fact that it is horrendously ugly."

"perhaps a slim is in the works for the future, but that too ugly to be a sony playstation, unless those are pictures of an unpainted, unfinished product. who knows, if it IS real, i doubt its finished, also i dont particularly like the ps3 logo, i much prefer the slick "spiderman" font that says playstation 3"


And it goes on...

:D

[sixtyfps]

No more spiderman font?

SOLD!

...haha, no, but I'm really excited to get this for LittleBigPlanet and The Last Guardian. I think I know what my Christmas list looks like now~~~

[lost]

Hah, showed this to ms. lost and she actually seemed receptive to the idea of upgrading. The reason?

"Is that matte? It looks matte? That'd be awesome, your one is a fucking dust magnet."

[dimsumx]

They should have kept the gloss...the matte makes it look like a cheap version of an AppleTV.

[BlueBomber]

I agree, I've always dug the gloss :-/...

[Jotoco]

I agree, I've always dug the gloss :-/...

Ask you Wife/Gf she will give you some.

I want a ps3. If it wasn't horrendously overpriced around here...

[Boramis]

How is it that they still haven't added an IR port?

[Itchyeyes]

2 years, 9 months, and 7 days after the PS3 launched, it's finally available for the price that both the PS1 and PS2 launched at. And Sony wonders why the PS3 hasn't been the smashing success that its older siblings were :rolleyes:

[abso]

The price drop and slimmer size makes this an attractive buy now. Especially since I'm in the market for a blu-ray player now. Shame they haven't included the backwards compatibility in this version. My PS2 is dying and I still have games on it to play.

[brandonjclark]

Thanks to everyone, but I think the safest road is to buy LBP so the wifey is kosher, and then pick up Drake and Drake 2 once it's released. Ooooh, I'm excited!

[Froggy]

Why does it look so Ghetto? It looks like something you would pick up on the black market in Malaysia with a name like FunStation 3 or something.

Ahahhahhahah! +10 CHA.

[Anenome]

and if this was the model they launched the Ps3 as, they would have won this generation.

Debatable, but futile anyway. They couldn't have achieved it technically at that time.

They would've had to forego Bluray to do it, since it was the Bluray laser lens which held up production for nearly a year. Which, frankly, probably would've been worth it, big time. They could've then launched a year earlier, and knocked what, like $100-$200 off the price easily?

And, with the smaller case size, Japanese households would've accepted it far more readily.

But, the Wii's novelty still would've been tough. Remember they launched in the same month anyway. And the Japanese are far more willing to buy electronics than we are, generally--and will pay more for them then we will. That's why the price was so high in the first place, because a price like that would've had no trouble in the Japanese market. But, Kutaragi's a couple sandwiches short of a picnic.

So, you could've had a scenario where the PS3 did very well here, and the Wii won Japan. Yeah, that would've been weird. But, the Wii would've still done well here, even alongside this PS3 due to novelty again.

So, you would've had a market where the Wii did well everywhere, and the PS3 did well in western markets. And that's assuming they ditched Bluray, which might've hurt Sony even more, had HD-DVD won the format war over BR. The Wii still would've won.

But, we can at least say that PS3 would've outsold the 360 for damned sure. Developers probably would've cried about that, because the PS3 is a bitch to dev on compared to the 360. And that may be why the 360 did so well this generation. This isn't the first console that has been abandoned not because consumers didn't want it, but because developers didn't want to develop on it.

In that category are the N64, the Sega Saturn, and now the PS3. I'd put the PS2 in that category also, except that it was actually successful--even if it won by default. Developers still hated working on it.

But all of this is just bullshit speculation anyway. Move along :)

[Anenome]

I agree, the gloss was way better. But, it just goes to show how price sensitive Sony's become over it. Glossy plastic simply costs more and is harder to manufacture.

[bskeillor]

Any pictures of the box yet? HDMI included or not will be the hot fanboy topic now that the price drop is legit.

I have way too many games to play now to worry about BC, but if Sony puts em on the store like the PS1 classics, I'm sure I'll buy some of them.

It does look like Sony has the edge though from here on out. They have the momentum, the games, Blu-ray, and the price. It'll be interesting to see what Nintendo has up it's sleeve....

[bean19]

Oh sure, it's 'sexy' NOW! Let's go back a few months ago when the pics were first leaked and see some choice comments:

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85000
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3174223

"It's probably one of those fake things you buy at the market with the amazing games they have pre-installed on it."

"I hope it's fake, cause it fucking UGLY! Flat as cardboard, except for its rounded top. Yeah, rounded top. That works perfectly in my entertainment system"

"looks like a pirate fake "non-PS3""

"I can't understand why chinese people make such bad things, copies?"

"I don't think anyone here denies the fact that Sony is working on a PS3 Slim. Most of us agree, however, that this isn't it, due to the fact that it is horrendously ugly."

"perhaps a slim is in the works for the future, but that too ugly to be a sony playstation, unless those are pictures of an unpainted, unfinished product. who knows, if it IS real, i doubt its finished, also i dont particularly like the ps3 logo, i much prefer the slick "spiderman" font that says playstation 3"


And it goes on...

:D
This would be more hilarious if you had sourced your quotes (especially from the Sony fanboys), but it's really funny now too. Nice post. :)

[Ozymandias]

How is it that they still haven't added an IR port?

Additional cost and great margins on the bluetooth remote. Pretty simple.

[Methos]

I'll grab a second PS3 Slim come September. Having one in my living room and bedroom is just too cool to ignore. I love the look of the Slim, and it will fit a lot better on the bedroom TV stand. Winning! I <3 PS3!

[spdiscus]

Day 1 for me.
Or Day 1000-something if you're really counting.

I was one of the BC holdouts, but I ended up buying a PS2 a few months ago.

[walstib]

nice. time to purchase a 2nd one so the 1st can be retired to the *kids* game room and I can have the best blu-ray player in the movie room :)

now please tell me the hard drive is still upgradeable...

[lockwoodx]

2 years, 9 months, and 7 days after the PS3 launched, it's finally available for the price that both the PS1 and PS2 launched at. And Sony wonders why the PS3 hasn't been the smashing success that its older siblings were :rolleyes:

You win this thread.

[Tempest261]

Additional cost and great margins on the bluetooth remote. Pretty simple.


Additional cost- no way. We're talking pennies.

Great margins on bluetooth remote- probably something to do with it.

That said: the lack of an IR port is what keeps me from buying a PS3. It's such a waste of a blue ray player without it (read: universal remotes).

[blackzc]

Dam nice box reminds me of this, which was also dead sexy.

http://i31.tinypic.com/68da9j.jpg

[Mike Jones]

Not sure how this will drive sales. You still need games.

[shadow763]

Not sure how this will drive sales. You still need games.

:Sigh:

Really? Did you just make this statement? I mean really?

Unrelated to the idiotic statement above, it doesn't look like the HDD is replaceable which would be unfortunate. I hope it is. I was happy to boost the size of mine, and I am personally more of a fan of the glossy look, but thats a personal choice.

[Methos]

it doesn't look like the HDD is replaceable

Destructoid (http://www.destructoid.com/you-can-still-swap-upgrade-hard-drives-on-ps3-slim-144810.phtml) ran a story already, its confirmed you can swap out the HDD just like the fatty. No more power switch on the back tho.

[the soUL TRAder]

Not bad at all.
If MAG dosen't turn out to be a complete bait and switch, and I break down and give Comcast more of my money so I can play a FPS online again, it's nice to know that the platform won't make it cost prohibitive.

[Shela Monster]

I'm still dissapointed that BC was dropped...
I feel that with a 120Gb HDD, at least they should bring back BC.

I have a launch 80Gb (Chrome, MC reader, BC) but I want a slim.
But because I have such a huge PS2 game collection, I'll keep my 80Gb.

And no, I don't feel like purchasing a whole PS2 system just to play some older games from time-to-time... :mad:

~Shela Monster

[Jamikazi]

I dig the matte finish. The gloss sucks up dust and lint like a belly button.

Anyone need a 20gb model with a 160gb hdd installed :p

[NuK]

consider me a convert. Damn, I've never owned a sony console, but I think i need a 2nd blu-ray player in my games room. The fact that they have a couple exclusives i'm interested is definitely sweetening the pot!

New look is superior to old imo, but opinions are like assholes :)

Also, i don't feel it's fair to say you're a penny pincher unless you bought a console for it's initial retail price of, what, double this? (or was it 500 initially? I don't recall) I think this is just more of a proper price adjustment :)

[dimsumx]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/08/ps3-slim-120gb-rm-eng-2.jpg

Looks like they took away Linux too.

On top of that, if you want to stand it up, you're gonna need to buy a stand for it like the PS2 Slim.

[dimsumx]

Meant to link:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/18/ps3-slim-sized-up-smaller-deeper-no-linux-or-ps2-compatibilit/

[Exodus]

How can someone say they the ps3 doesn't have a great gaming library considering they are becoming one and the same. The years of exclusivity are fading and now all games are for everyone. Yes there's god of war, uncharted to the 360's halo and slew of mother fucking jrpgs that should have been on the ps3....moment please while i deal with my anger. Okay but let's face it for the future, both consoles are pretty much getting the same gaming library. So who the fuck cares. I can live without halo, fps's on consoles are crap anyway. Do you kno what it's like to play halo/killzone 2 on these consoles? It's like playing quake 3 arena in a fucking fat suit. FUCK CONSOLE FPS'S.

Anyways, I fucking love this slim i just wish it came out sooner so i would have bought it. Will consider upgrading after first price drop of it within 2yrs.

[shadow763]

Destructoid (http://www.destructoid.com/you-can-still-swap-upgrade-hard-drives-on-ps3-slim-144810.phtml) ran a story already, its confirmed you can swap out the HDD just like the fatty. No more power switch on the back tho.

Nice. Thats a big deal, especially since I swapped mine for a bigger one, so it would have sucked to lose it.

I do kind of think the loss of the power switch in the back sucks. If you ever have a freeze and you cant get it to power down via the tough power, it was nice to be able to flip the back switch.

[brandonjclark]

Looks like they took away Linux too.
On top of that, if you want to stand it up, you're gonna need to buy a stand for it like the PS2 Slim.

Are you going to miss this "otherOS" feature? What good apps or functionality has come from running Linux on PS3? (I don't know, I'm asking.....)

Also, I could see it being useful if you could install something like MythTV but even that would require a coaxial in port.

I dunno, I suppose I don't see the benefit of running Linux on a PS3.

[pwnophobia]

Is it bad if I was told to make a choice between a new bed or the PS3 slim and I chose the ps3? (true story)

[Exodus]

Is it bad if I was told to make a choice between a new bed or the PS3 slim and I chose the ps3? (true story)

Your dedication is worthy of a reward. pwnophobia - he who chose a ps3 over a life free of back problems and to getting laid on a single bed instead of a queen or king size bed for his teenage to adult life.

[pwnophobia]

Your dedication is worthy of a reward. pwnophobia - he who chose a ps3 over a life free of back problems and to getting laid on a single bed instead of a queen or king size bed for his teenage to adult life.

Well...if it means anything our bed IS a full size, but I can't pass up MGS4 :p

[serioustommy]

So what are they going to do for us that bought the crappy old fat one? Do they offer exchange or do early adopters get shafted again?

[Shela Monster]

Well...if it means anything our bed IS a full size, but I can't pass up MGS4 :p+10 man points.
5 for the decision that gaming is more important.
5 for not letting your wife talk you out of it.

That's my boy!
*wipes tear from eye*

~Shela Monster

[Mysterio]

I have a launch 80Gb (Chrome, MC reader, BC) but I want a slim.
But because I have such a huge PS2 game collection, I'll keep my 80Gb.

I don't enjoy being the bearer of bad news, but your 80 GB PS3 is not a launch unit and contains only software emulation BC, not hardware (i.e., Emotion Engine) BC.

I'll stick with my 60 GB, HW BC launch PS3 until it's dead beyond recovery. Then I'll get a Slim.

[bowie]

Thanks to everyone, but I think the safest road is to buy LBP so the wifey is kosher, and then pick up Drake and Drake 2 once it's released. Ooooh, I'm excited!

Sounds like a solid plan. May I suggest you take a look at PJ Monsters. My wife and I had a great time playing this game together. That said my wife loved Uncharted but never warmed to LBP. So YMMV. Anyway, enjoy.

That said: the lack of an IR port is what keeps me from buying a PS3. It's such a waste of a blue ray player without it (read: universal remotes).

There are third party options that let you use universal remotes with the PS3. I've linked to the logitech one but I imagine you could find something a bit cheaper if you looked around.

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/remotes/universal_remotes/devices/5732&cl=us,en

[sgtslappy]

Hah, showed this to ms. lost and she actually seemed receptive to the idea of upgrading. The reason?

"Is that matte? It looks matte? That'd be awesome, your one is a fucking dust magnet."

Fuck, I lol'd.

I might pick one up. I'm not sure yet.

[Ozymandias]

Additional cost- no way. We're talking pennies.

Great margins on bluetooth remote- probably something to do with it.

That said: the lack of an IR port is what keeps me from buying a PS3. It's such a waste of a blue ray player without it (read: universal remotes).

More than pennies, less than $1. No matter what you pick, multiply it by 10-20 million and you quickly get into real cost. And every feature like IR, usb ports, etc you add is another multiplier. Trust me, it's both cost and peripheral margins.

Put it another way, Sony pushed hard on cost reduction of the new box - which is why it's cheap plastic, no more power switch on back, no more touch-sensitive buttons on front, no back compat, etc. Every single one of those removals (and shinkage of plastic components, CPU, GPU, heating, power supply, the list goes on and on) adds tens of millions (at least) to the bottom line.

[RUSKULL]

Today is the day that Sony finally enters the next generation.

Actually, if one considers this a new console launch, then this could truly be the console to beat Wii. Yeah, hard to imagine now, yet strange how this idea seemed impossible a few years ago. It's like Sony decided to launch a new console with old tech (if it were considered a new next gen system) but with Blu-Ray player. Sounds like a Nintendo system, only with media playback.

Yet, I can't help but think of Wii Sports, and Wii Fit and all that stuff that's made the little machine that could a success. A $299 price tag seems like it should boost sales, but why then has the 360 still not beaten the Wii?

[shpankey]

More than pennies, less than $1. No matter what you pick, multiply it by 10-20 million and you quickly get into real cost. And every feature like IR, usb ports, etc you add is another multiplier. Trust me, it's both cost and peripheral margins.

I never get this argument. I mean I understand the logic, but it's easily defeatable. Whatever the marginal cost increase (using the mid-point of your example so .50cents) just increase the cost of each player that marginal amount. So, instead of 499.00 it's 499.50. At that price, the consumer is not going to care about 50 cents more but will most likely care about the additional feature.

[Ozymandias]

I never get this argument. I mean I understand the logic, but it's easily defeatable. Whatever the marginal cost increase (using the mid-point of your example so .50cents) just increase the cost of each player that marginal amount. So, instead of 499.00 it's 499.50. At that price, the consumer is not going to care about 50 cents more but will most likely care about the additional feature.

Basically comes down to the fact that there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of these sorts of decisions that all go into trying to cut the price. Sure, any feature can be on the box - what Sony had to do (and we all continually do) is balance the cost of putting it on the box versus return. To take IR as an example, somewhere, someone did the math and spreadsheets and found that the combination of adding an IR port (cost) and the loss of revenue (bluetooth remote revenue) didn't make sense. Otherwise it would be there.

Don't get me wrong - drives me nuts that there's no IR port. I'm bulletproofing my controls for the home theater, and had to do some research to find the best 3rd party solution (here, BTW, if you're looking to do the same: http://www.remotecentral.com/reviews/ps3_control_roundup/index.html ). But I completely understand why they took it off (along with backcompat, extra USB ports, etc.)

[sixtyfps]

So what are they going to do for us that bought the crappy old fat one? Do they offer exchange or do early adopters get shafted again?

Goddammit, you got exactly what you paid for. Rub it on your crotch and smile; we can't all afford them that early.

[TeeCakes]

I think it's safe to state that every gamer universally agreed (before the Slim announcement) that the PS3>360 in terms of overall value and/or hardware quality.

Now that the PS3 price point is where it needs to be, I predict MS will have a hard time trying to stay on a level playing field with Sony in the marketplace. Before, their entire bread-n-butter was that the 360's price was a fraction of the PS3's. Now that you get all the PS3 bells and whistles from Sony (with free PSN, blu-ray, PSOne BC, easy upgradable HDD, wi-fi included, PS3 exclusives, etc.) for the same entry price as a bare-bones 360 it's hard to deny the PS3 as a better deal.

[Mr. Lake]

I think it's safe to state that every gamer universally agreed (before the Slim announcement) that the PS3>360 in terms of overall value and/or hardware quality.

Now that the PS3 price point is where it needs to be, I predict MS will have a hard time trying to stay on a level playing field with Sony in the marketplace. Before, their entire bread-n-butter was that the 360's price was a fraction of the PS3's. Now that you get all the PS3 bells and whistles from Sony (with free PSN, blu-ray, PSOne BC, easy upgradable HDD, wi-fi included, PS3 exclusives, etc.) for the same entry price as a bare-bones 360 it's hard to deny the PS3 as a better deal.

Grossly incorrect. As a developer, I have a great distain for Sony and their hardware. The 360 is by far the better player in the grand scheme of things. Devs don't have to make nearly as many sacrifices to bring their games onto Microsoft's kit as they do with Sony's. Plus their tools are all thrd-party abominations with barely a hint of robust functionality.

When Sony gave the community their elitest bullshit excuse about forcing developers to work harder on their hardware by design because it makes the current generation last longer and produces better games, I threw my hands up and gave up completely on Playstation as a system. Even hardcore Sony-centric developers have been showing wavering support for this insanity. When a company says it thinks it knows best and cripples devs because of that near-sighted pride, it hurts everyone.

Also, your bells and whistles comparison is off a bit. There is no BC on the new PS3, the 360 has access to Netflix on demand (along with other streaming services) where the PS3 has none, the 360 Elite is $299, and no one really cares about the PS3 exclusives. Plus, Blu-ray is a big, dying fish in a sea of hungry new formats... formats that can actually surpass the BD's read/write bottlenecks and storage capacity (add to the fact that most consumers refuse to pay the additional $10-$15 for the same movie on standard DVD, and the gap in quality between the two formats is minimal).

[oldjadedgamer]

I think it's safe to state that every gamer universally agreed (before the Slim announcement) that the PS3>360 in terms of overall value and/or hardware quality.

Now that the PS3 price point is where it needs to be, I predict MS will have a hard time trying to stay on a level playing field with Sony in the marketplace. Before, their entire bread-n-butter was that the 360's price was a fraction of the PS3's. Now that you get all the PS3 bells and whistles from Sony (with free PSN, blu-ray, PSOne BC, easy upgradable HDD, wi-fi included, PS3 exclusives, etc.) for the same entry price as a bare-bones 360 it's hard to deny the PS3 as a better deal.

A bare bones 360 is $199. If average Joe Consumer wants to play Madden for the lowest price this year, they walk into a store and see the PS3 version for $360 and the 360 version for $260. We've heard the "value" card played many times and it hasn't reflected into sales numbers in the US or in Japan.

It will be interesting to see how the new price does on the PS3 after the initial bump that always comes from a price drop. When the dust settles in January NPD, we'll see how the two HD twins are.

[Mike Jones]

A bare bones 360 is $199. If average Joe Consumer wants to play Madden for the lowest price this year, they walk into a store and see the PS3 version for $360 and the 360 version for $260. We've heard the "value" card played many times and it hasn't reflected into sales numbers in the US or in Japan.

It will be interesting to see how the new price does on the PS3 after the initial bump that always comes from a price drop. When the dust settles in January NPD, we'll see how the two HD twins are.

The Arcade sells less than the Elite so for the majority of buyers it will be in the same price range.

[oldjadedgamer]

The Arcade sells less than the Elite so for the majority of buyers it will be in the same price range.

I'm sure you have a credible link to back this up right?

[TeeCakes]

Grossly incorrect. As a developer, I have a great distain for Sony and their hardware. The 360 is by far the better player in the grand scheme of things. Devs don't have to make nearly as many sacrifices to bring their games onto Microsoft's kit as they do with Sony's. Plus their tools are all thrd-party abominations with barely a hint of robust functionality.

"Grossly incorrect"? Funny how you think an opinion can be somehow incorrect, but in actuality most gamers do in fact see the PS3 as a better overall value than the 360. Sorry that conflicts with your clear bias as a Microsoft developer, bub.

When Sony gave the community their elitest bullshit excuse about forcing developers to work harder on their hardware by design because it makes the current generation last longer and produces better games, I threw my hands up and gave up completely on Playstation as a system. Even hardcore Sony-centric developers have been showing wavering support for this insanity. When a company says it thinks it knows best and cripples devs because of that near-sighted pride, it hurts everyone.

Yes. Sony's hurting so much that they've been selling just as many systems worldwide at $400 that the 360 has been at nearly half the price. Just as the Nintendo Wii's success has proved, people put entirely too much stock in keeping 3rd party devs happy. You make a successful console, and the 3rd parties will put up with whatever "insanity" they need in order to get their piece of the pie.

Welcome to the world of business. I'm not sure why you expect these people to be your friends, but that's not how the world works. And whining about how it's not Sony's policy to hold devs hands doesn't pay the bills, bub.

Also, your bells and whistles comparison is off a bit. There is no BC on the new PS3, the 360 has access to Netflix on demand (along with other streaming services) where the PS3 has none, the 360 Elite is $299, and no one really cares about the PS3 exclusives. Plus, Blu-ray is a big, dying fish in a sea of hungry new formats... formats that can actually surpass the BD's read/write bottlenecks and storage capacity (add to the fact that most consumers refuse to pay the additional $10-$15 for the same movie on standard DVD, and the gap in quality between the two formats is minimal).

There is, and always will be PSOne BC in every PS3. Reread what I wrote before you continue to misunderstand/misquote. Netflix only works with a 360 Gold subscription, meaning if you already paid for Netflix movies on your PC, YOU HAVE TO PAY TWICE FOR XBL GOLD. Makes as much sense as paying twice for internet access, WHICH YOU HAVE TO DO FOR XBL GOLD.

Nobody cares about the PS3 exclusives? LOL, way to show your bias there, bub.

And it's a good thing you can also play DVDs (with upconversion) for free on the PS3 (which you can't on a 360), since according to you, O' Expert of the Media Formats, that it's about to die out any day now. Even though it's about to enter into the 3rd year of it's lifespan, and even though one of the former opponents of the format predict that BD sales will make up 50% of the US disc market (http://www.videobusiness.com/blog/830000483/post/140047614.html). But who cares, since you're the expert right, bub? :D

[TeeCakes]

A bare bones 360 is $199. If average Joe Consumer wants to play Madden for the lowest price this year, they walk into a store and see the PS3 version for $360 and the 360 version for $260. We've heard the "value" card played many times and it hasn't reflected into sales numbers in the US or in Japan.

It will be interesting to see how the new price does on the PS3 after the initial bump that always comes from a price drop. When the dust settles in January NPD, we'll see how the two HD twins are.

Well, I guess I should've clarified myself, since even an Elite unit seems "bare-bones" to me considering the need to add-on wi-fi and XBL Gold to match the PS3 Slim's features. The Arcade is worse than bare-bones, IMO-- it's anemic with the lack of a HDD which limits even the basic functions of an HD gaming console.

But I guess you're technically right, and MS's pricing points will continue to work on the average penny-pinching gaming n00b.

[oldjadedgamer]

Well, I guess I should've clarified myself, since even an Elite unit seems "bare-bones" to me considering the need to add-on wi-fi and XBL Gold to match the PS3 Slim's features. The Arcade is worse than bare-bones, IMO-- it's anemic with the lack of a HDD which limits even the basic functions of an HD gaming console.

But I guess you're technically right, and MS's pricing points will continue to work on the average penny-pinching gaming n00b.

But... there is no "need" for wifi, an HDD, or online. While they may be needed to you, they are not needed for everyone. I personally have never used the wifi in my PS3 and have it hardwired. Wifi is useless to me and I don't "need" it. Same with Blu-ray... totally useless to me personally. I've rented one single Blu-ray in the entire time I've owned my PS3.

If someone never intends to take their 360 online... ever. What need is there for wifi/hdd/XBL gold? I have a buddy that has never connected his 360 to the internet and only plays single player games and the guy is 100% happy with the Arcade.

Remember, never confuse what you personally need with what everyone else needs. Again, you are talking about perceived value rather than face value which is what customers see when they are at the cash register handing over their credit card.

[the soUL TRAder]

Just as the Nintendo Wii's success has proved, people put entirely too much stock in keeping 3rd party devs happy. You make a successful console, and the 3rd parties will put up with whatever "insanity" they need in order to get their piece of the pie.
:D

When do you start gaming nOOb? 2002?

In '89 Nintendo was the only player in gaming but because they ran their 3rd party relationships with such "insanity", they let Sega almost surpass them simply because 3rd parties flocked to it. 15 years later the gamecube was a distant 3rd place.

In '94 Sega was on top of the world leading the hardcore gamer market, however, even though they had great relationships with 3rd parties, they made "insainly difficult" hardware for developers to work with, 6 years later they were out of the console business.

Not to mention the Wii is the worst example for your point of veiw, not only have Ninty learned their lesson and are being more accommodating to developers, they gave them rudimentary hardware to work with, so they could spend their dev time on the motion controls.

With the PS3, Sony has the double whammy of both insane devloper relationships and insainly difficult hardware.

This is a someone who knows telling you that many developers are frustrated with Sony because of same types of BS that have been proven to have had a negative impact on other platforms. You can either accept the reality that Sony spent too much time on their proprietary hardware elements and not enough time on easing developement or you can keep your head buried in the sand.

Either way, dosen't matter; since even with the drastic re-design and a huge price cut, Sony will continue to lose developer support, continue to have the most suspect versions of multiplats and continue to struggle to sell software. Although, I'm sure those Blu Ray rentals will skyrocket ;).

Besides, this is a moot point, since I'm sure MS will announce the $199 pro very soon and the same price point advantage will be re-established for the 360. And when they announce Silvers can play on XBL, even the value will be on the 360s side.

[Gorvi]

This thread is both funny and sad at the same time.

[bean19]

soul trader - what you say is true until you get to predictions. Developers are going to go multi-platform for the most part. It's almost 4 years into this generation and without a clear winner like the PS2, they have to either go with the Wii's 50 millon or the 50 million on 360 and PS3.

Sure, it's tough to port 360 games to the PS3, but it's worth the cost to most 3rd party developers to increase their market by 20 million and that will go way up with this huge price drop.

[bean19]

This thread is both funny and sad at the same time.
This post is both condescending and adds nothing to the discussion at the same time.

[Gorvi]

This post is both condescending and adds nothing to the discussion at the same time.
You're absolutely right. Of course, you're implying that the discussion at hand actually has any merit, which it doesn't.

You kids need to get over the whole "my console has a bigger dick than yours" shit and just play the damn games. The constant urge by the fervent 360 supporters to post their "PS3 is teh suck" rhetoric in every thread they come across is pathetic. The same would go for the reverse if it actually happened. It's old, it's tired, and at some point I have to wonder if people actually think like that, or if it's all just a persona. Just because another console exists that isn't the one that you decided to buy day one and throw your fanatical misguided support behind doesn't mean you need to hate "the other guy". It is, as hard is it may be to believe, possible to enjoy games without worrying about their platform.

Also, just because someone doesn't agree with everything you say doesn't make them "SDF", a "Sony shill", or a "MS hater". Try using that logic in reverse some time and see how much you'd accuse someone of being "MDF", a "Micorsoft shill", or a "Sony hater" around here.

[bean19]

You're absolutely right. Of course, you're implying that the discussion at hand actually has any merit, which it doesn't.
Then why are you reading it?

You kids need to get over the whole "my console has a bigger dick than yours" shit and just play the damn games.
Obviously, you AREN'T reading it. We are discussing how big an impact the new awesome PS3 price drop will have on it's sales and how the other console manufacturerers will respond.

But if you are too adult to take part in that subject, then kindly be adult enough to not come into the thread and insult everyone without taking the time to read or comprehend it.

You're such a hypocritical, condescending asshole sometimes Gorvi.

[Gorvi]

Then why are you reading it?
Entertianment value. It's funny in an ironic sort of way.
Obviously, you AREN'T reading it. We are discussing how big an impact the new awesome PS3 price drop will have on it's sales and how the other console manufacturerers will respond.
Some were discussing it, some were spewing the same old shit that's been repeated over and over on this site. For the most part, you were discussing things in a pretty civil manner, if you must know.
But if you are too adult to take part in that subject, then kindly be adult enough to not come into the thread and insult everyone without taking the time to read or comprehend it.
While I appreciate the advice, those were not insults, they were observations. Again, I mainly wasn't referring to you (other than the constant shill/SDF accusations), but to others. I fully comprehend the topic at hand, mature conversation is perfectly reasonable without asinine hyperbolic statements like those that have been posted here.
You're such a hypocritical, condescending asshole sometimes Gorvi.
Condescending, sure, I do that from time to time, but hypocritical, no, I don't think so. I don't attack any specific platform for any reason, they all have their strengths and weaknesses, which can vary greatly depending on what you're looking for.

[the soUL TRAder]

This thread is both funny and sad at the same time.

Thanks for sharing, of course this useless post sent the thread off topic, so at least funny and sad was relevant.

[the soUL TRAder]

soul trader - what you say is true until you get to predictions. Developers are going to go multi-platform for the most part.

I agree that on average most games will be multiplat, especially ones from the large publishers, but it seems that some developers just don't have enough resources to work with the PS3 so the 360 has been getting some default exclusives: Raven Squad, Section 8, Risen, Darkest of Days.

I think this might be more common in the future.

[Exodus]

I agree that on average most games will be multiplat, especially ones from the large publishers, but it seems that some developers just don't have enough resources to work with the PS3 so the 360 has been getting some default exclusives: Raven Squad, Section 8, Risen, Darkest of Days.

I think this might be more common in the future.

Raven Squad is going to PC, Section 8 is going to PC, Risen PC and i'm not even gonna bother with darkest of days which more than likely is going to go pc too. Whoopty doo so you can play those 'exclusives' on your 360 while i play them on my much more powerful and much better to be perfectly honest...PC.

NEXT!

[the soUL TRAder]

while i play them on my much more powerful and much better to be perfectly honest...PC.Awwww, that's so cute:
a boy and his PC, do you both wear matching pajamas?

NEXT!
Beep-Beeep_beep.

Wait a minute back that failed post up.

My point was there are some developers making games that would normally ONLY release on the PC, but since it's so easy to port to the 360 and not so much to the PS3, the 360 is getting some CONSOLE exclusives.

Which was all relevant since I was talking about how console makers can lose developer support if they have insanely difficult hardware.

So go back three spaces and catch up. ;)

[Exodus]

Awwww, that's so cute:
a boy and his PC, do you both wear matching pajamas?


Beep-Beeep_beep.

Wait a minute back that failed post up.

My point was there are some developers making games that would normally ONLY release on the PC, but since it's so easy to port to the 360 and not so much to the PS3, the 360 is getting some CONSOLE exclusives.

Which was all relevant since I was talking about how console makers can lose developer support if they have insanely difficult hardware.

So go back three spaces and catch up. ;)

I can't believe you took me seriously after expecting someone to read all the posts put up in the thread.

we need a facepalm emoticon

[the soUL TRAder]

I can't believe you took me seriously..

You shouldn't, because this isn't serious business.
What I did was poke fun at how much you wub your PC.

But you really should stop make your usb port so sticky :eek:.

[TeeCakes]

This thread is both funny and sad at the same time.

I'll assume this comment is directed at me, but honestly everything I've said in this thread has been on-topic and civil (for me), so I welcome you to be a tad more specific with the furtive criticism next time so I can actually address it.

I agree that on average most games will be multiplat, especially ones from the large publishers, but it seems that some developers just don't have enough resources to work with the PS3 so the 360 has been getting some default exclusives: Raven Squad, Section 8, Risen, Darkest of Days.

I think this might be more common in the future.

Weeell if any of those titles becomes the next Gears of War, I'll totally eat my SDF hat! But I'd say more power to smaller devs if they'd rather double-dip in the PC/360 market than work the 360/PS3/Wii one. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why games like Resident Evil 5 actually sold more copies on the PS3 than the 360-- Sony's console seems to always get the "AAA" titles no matter what, be it a 2nd party exclusive or a big-budget 3rd party effort (MGS4, CoD4, etc.)

Honestly I don't think the indy FPS/Adventure titles would sell very well if they came to the PS3, so it's probably a good move making them 360 exclusives.

[oldjadedgamer]

Weeell if any of those titles becomes the next Gears of War, I'll totally eat my SDF hat! But I'd say more power to smaller devs if they'd rather double-dip in the PC/360 market than work the 360/PS3/Wii one. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why games like Resident Evil 5 actually sold more copies on the PS3 than the 360-- Sony's console seems to always get the "AAA" titles no matter what, be it a 2nd party exclusive or a big-budget 3rd party effort (MGS4, CoD4, etc.)

Mass Effect 2 and Left 4 Dead 2 coming to PS3 confirmed?

[Gorvi]

I'll assume this comment is directed at me, but honestly everything I've said in this thread has been on-topic and civil (for me), so I welcome you to be a tad more specific with the furtive criticism next time so I can actually address it.
No, it was more in response to asinine comments like this:
Also, your bells and whistles comparison is off a bit. There is no BC on the new PS3, the 360 has access to Netflix on demand (along with other streaming services) where the PS3 has none, the 360 Elite is $299, and no one really cares about the PS3 exclusives. Plus, Blu-ray is a big, dying fish in a sea of hungry new formats... formats that can actually surpass the BD's read/write bottlenecks and storage capacity (add to the fact that most consumers refuse to pay the additional $10-$15 for the same movie on standard DVD, and the gap in quality between the two formats is minimal).
Either way, dosen't matter; since even with the drastic re-design and a huge price cut, Sony will continue to lose developer support, continue to have the most suspect versions of multiplats and continue to struggle to sell software.
Besides, this is a moot point, since I'm sure MS will announce the $199 pro very soon and the same price point advantage will be re-established for the 360. And when they announce Silvers can play on XBL, even the value will be on the 360s side.
Seriously, it's that kind of fanboy shit that just gets annoying. Both consoles have value, get your heads out of your asses. Even, holy shit, the Wii has some great value, though more as a second system when you already have a PS3/360.

[modeps]

Seriously, it's that kind of fanboy shit that just gets annoying. Both consoles have value, get your heads out of your asses. Even, holy shit, the Wii has some great value, though more as a second system when you already have a PS3/360.

I was right with you till you said that the Wii has some great value. ;) But you're more or less correct here. The PS3 has it's strengths and weaknesses, the 360 has it's strengths and weaknesses. The end.

[the soUL TRAder]

Both consoles have value, get your heads out of your asses.

That was my point, and at least I had one, all you seem to have is a telephone pole stuck up your arse.

But thanks for completely missing the jist of the conversation and adding nothing to it at the same time.

We really missed it. :rolleyes:

[the soUL TRAder]

Weeell if any of those titles becomes the next Gears of War, I'll totally eat my SDF hat!

Why would they need to become that? The 360 already has Gears, Halo, Fable, Forza, etc as AAA platform exclusives, just as the PS3 has Killzone, MGS, inFamous, Uncharted, etc. And since most "AAA" tiles not bankrolled by a platform maker are mulitplat, it's mostly a wash depending on what type of games you prefer. That's why a game like RE5 sales on the PS3 are so comparable to the 360's and why CoD4 sold much more on the 360.

My point was developer relations can make or break a console and the 360 is benefiting from the good relationships they have built through XNA middleware and recieving some games that might not usually appear on any console, while Sony is hearing from other developers that the console might not be worth supporting.
So I would recommend that Sony not think that "the 3rd parties will put up with whatever "insanity" they need in order to get their piece of the pie" just because they have an awesome BluRay player inside a very good console, and put more effort into developement tools.

[Gorvi]

That was my point, and at least I had one, all you seem to have is a telephone pole stuck up your arse.

But thanks for completely missing the jist of the conversation and adding nothing to it at the same time.

We really missed it. :rolleyes:
What exactly did I miss? I quoted statements that were asinine and pointed them out as such. Or do you consider those to be perfectly reasonable assertions?

If you were trying to make the point that they both have strengths and weaknesses you may want to rethink the way you put your ideas down as text, you did a terrible job conveying that message. Your last post there did a much better job.

[the soUL TRAder]

What exactly did I miss?

Obviously what you are missing is an understanding of what is asinine.

Plus you also missed my post in reference to the PS3 Slim on page 3:
Not bad at all.
If MAG dosen't turn out to be a complete bait and switch, and I break down and give Comcast more of my money so I can play a FPS online again, it's nice to know that the platform won't make it cost prohibitive.

Or do you consider those to be perfectly reasonable assertions?


And for the record:
Yes, it's perfectly resonable to believe that the PS3 Slim, while a great console option, doesn't give developers anymore help in easing developement. Also it's equally reasonable that a $199 Pro system with free online play over XBL is a better gaming value than the PS3 Slim.

(Even if the price drop is only to $249 which is what I heard.)

[Gorvi]

Yes, it's perfectly resonable to believe that the PS3 Slim, while a great console option, doesn't give developers anymore help in easing developement. Also it's equally reasonable that a $199 Pro system with free online play over XBL is a better gaming value than the PS3 Slim.

(Even if the price drop is only to $249 which is what I heard.)
You're acting like these things are likely, the Pro was being phased out completely last I heard. Free online play would be fantastic for Silver members, but again, that's a fantasy right now.

A Slim + price drop would help developers if only because it would expand the install base, thus giving them more people to sell their games to. No, it wouldn't ease the actual development process, but that's Sony's job to get off their asses and provide assistance where it's needed.

You also left out the part where you state that they would "continue to lose developer support" and have "suspect muliplat titles", something that has become the exception these days, not the norm.

[TeeCakes]

Well obviously after the clarification I side with you, Gorvi, seeing as how I made detailed responses to most of the "asinine" quotes you listed already. At the risk of sounding redundant, there's more to being a fanboy than just blind intolerance, and just because the PS3 Slim is bringing some competition next month there's no reason to feel threatened.

Mass Effect 2 and Left 4 Dead 2 coming to PS3 confirmed?

You bring up a good point-- a 360 owner didn't pick up their system because Risen, or Darkest of Days is on it. They bought it for Halo 3, Gears 2, and Mass Effect 2. So saying, indy 3rd parties trying to push their weight around by whining about the 'difficulty' of the PS3 won't amount to a hill of beans when the likes of Konami and Capcom have zero problems selling multi-millions in software on the PS3.

Plus, any person who wants to experience InFamous, Uncharted 2, God of War 3, etc. will need to pony up on a PS3. It's foolish to claim that the 360 has any kind of software advantage, at this point in the HD era.

[bean19]

Seriously, it's that kind of fanboy shit that just gets annoying. Both consoles have value, get your heads out of your asses. Even, holy shit, the Wii has some great value, though more as a second system when you already have a PS3/360.
This is how you are being condescending. Before your arrival, this thread was a discussion about how people believe the PS3Slim will effect the console market. People had differing opinions and were arguing those opinions, but the argument was ABOUT something. Then you arrived and simply insulted the whole discussion and continue to call everyone (though if pressed you'll admit that not everyone - just those people you disagree with) you disagree with morons and fanboys.

It's a dick move every time you do this. People COME here to have these discussions. If you don't like them, then don't come here. If you do like them, then I know that you are not always so childish that your only way to engage people you disagree with is name-calling. Differing opinions are welcomed, but simply insulting other people's opinions should be reserved for the absolute crazies (though the higher road is to simply ignore them and I tend to take it more often now - though not all the time).

[Gorvi]

This is how you are being condescending. Before your arrival, this thread was a discussion about how people believe the PS3Slim will effect the console market. People had differing opinions and were arguing those opinions, but the argument was ABOUT something. Then you arrived and simply insulted the whole discussion and continue to call everyone (though if pressed you'll admit that not everyone - just those people you disagree with) you disagree with morons and fanboys.

It's a dick move every time you do this. People COME here to have these discussions. If you don't like them, then don't come here. If you do like them, then I know that you are not always so childish that your only way to engage people you disagree with is name-calling. Differing opinions are welcomed, but simply insulting other people's opinions should be reserved for the absolute crazies (though the higher road is to simply ignore them and I tend to take it more often now - though not all the time).
I singled out comments, actually. Differing opinions are fine, they make the world go 'round, as the saying goes. There's a distinct difference between a differing opinion and just outright trashing something for reasons unknown. The comments I singled out weren't adding to the discussion, they were ancillary hyperbolic statements that had no real basis or value.

Thinking that the slim PS3 won't spur hardware sales is a perfectly valid opinion, I have to wonder myself how much it's really going to matter in an awful economy like we have today. Sony has made it's bed for the most part this generation with incredibly prohibitive pricing for the hardware and an arrogant stance early on, and like it or not, most "hardcore" gamers have chosen the 360 as thier platform of choice, many of which did so to the exclusion of other platforms.

My point was the topic can be discussed just fine without having to go out of your way to be a prick. And bean, you of all people should refrain from scolding people about "name calling", you label just about anyone who doesn't agree with you a fanboy and "SDF" at the drop of a hat. You've been doing so for a long time now with many people, no matter how reasonable they may be.

[the soUL TRAder]

....that's a fantasy right now.

My conjecture maybe a fantasy right now, but at least it's a possibility. Plus, in my defence, it was in response to someone claiming that "the 3rd parties will put up with whatever "insanity" they need in order to get their piece of the pie", which history has already proven is a complete fantasy.


You also left out the part where you state that they would "continue to lose developer support" and have "suspect muliplat titles", something that has become the exception these days, not the norm.

Both of these may be more exception than norm, but they still are.

[the soUL TRAder]

Well obviously after the clarification I side with you, Gorvi, Aww, isn't that cute. It's like the met on the playground and at first they didn't know if they'd be friends, but than they realized they had so much in common. ;)

It's foolish to claim that the 360 has any kind of software advantage, at this point in the HD era.

No, it's foolish to claim that the PS3 dosen't have a software advandage in some ways and that the 360 doesn't have the advantage in others. One is better for certain gamers while the other is better for different gamers.

[Gorvi]

My conjecture maybe a fantasy right now, but at least it's a possibility. Plus, in my defence, it was in response to someone claiming that "the 3rd parties will put up with whatever "insanity" they need in order to get their piece of the pie", which history has already proven is a complete fantasy.
I think that would fall under the old axiom "two wrongs don't make a right". ;)
Both of these may be more exception than norm, but they still are.
Rarely these days, yes. It's not a factor with the majority of releases, though.
No, it's foolish to claim that the PS3 dosen't have a software advandage in some ways and that the 360 doesn't have the advantage in others. One is better for certain gamers while the other is better for different gamers.
Absolutely agree.

[TeeCakes]

No, it's foolish to claim that the PS3 dosen't have a software advandage in some ways and that the 360 doesn't have the advantage in others. One is better for certain gamers while the other is better for different gamers.

I don't see how that's very different than what I said, but sure let's go with this!