Miyamoto disses digital distribution

[Lard]

"Personally, I'm one of those guys who, even if I have all the songs from iTunes, I want the CD as well. I feel more reassured with that physical media. Entertainment is something that will not just become digital. If I look at Wii MotionPlus, this is something that you're not doing via digital distribution. The thing for us is we really don't see the future of video games being merely confined to digital distribution or moving solely or even to a majority of our products being distributed that way."

http://kotaku.com/5328435/miyamoto-not-worshipping-at-dlcs-altar

[JazGalaxy]

I can to some small degree, understand what he's saying, but I disagree.

I mean, when everything is working the way it should, like on some recent concept albums I've purchased, the musical expereince simply cannot be had unless you buy the CD. You need to album art, the booklet, and the physical disc to experence the whole of the project.

Games should, in theory, work in this way too. Many old PC games did this perfectly, what with the box content fleshing out the world of the game.

But unfortunately that has fallen by the wayside in favor of cheap manuals that contain no information or color content and nothing else included in the experience at all.

I beleive that Digital Distribution could be made to provide an equal experience, however.

[Lard]

I believe that Digital Distribution could be made to provide an equal experience, however.

Well you're wrong.

[Meusli]

Look at him plugging his motion controller in a conversation about digital distribution. ;)

I think he is wrong though, as publishers try to save more money they only have one way to go and it ain't printing manuals, writing disks and delivering them to stores

[modeps]

It has taken me a long time to admit this but... Miyamoto just isn't relevant to me anymore.

[Blade]

No way. Really?

I thought you were the site's biggest Nintendo fan.

[Evil Avatar]

Look at him plugging his motion controller in a conversation about digital distribution. ;)

I think he is wrong though, as publishers try to save more money they only have one way to go and it ain't printing manuals, writing disks and delivering them to stores

Isn't manufacturing the physical media the least expensive part of game development & publishing? It is the development and advertising that cost most of the money, not making a bunch of DVD's and boxes.

[lost]

I'd love it if I could just digitally rent a title. That won't happen any time soon and considering I rent most of what I play this means that hard copies remain relevant for me.

I have mixed feeling though. Digital gives you the immediacy and convenience but a single download service per console would ruin price competition.

[modeps]

No way. Really?

I thought you were the site's biggest Nintendo fan.

I used to be... before the Wii came about.

[Meusli]

Isn't manufacturing the physical media the least expensive part of game development & publishing? It is the development and advertising that cost most of the money, not making a bunch of DVD's and boxes.

Your right, it's not the most expensive part of the system, but it's a part that can be dispensed with eventually, I do not see it happening soon but it is I think an eventuality. Plus the fact that oil prices are going up all the time, it's going to only get more expensive to deliver these items to stores.

[AversionFX]

I have mixed feeling though. Digital gives you the immediacy and convenience but a single download service per console would ruin price competition.

The perk of the PC not being tied to any one company (for the most part).

I've always been fond of digital distro just because it's a more permanent solution to physical media. Your discs can get lost, scratched, etc. The worst that happens with digital, is the service shuts down, or you forget your login. I also agree with the sentiment of Miyamoto not being relevant.

[Lard]

How can you people be so willfully ignorant?

DD is going to screw every single gamer over completely.

Miyamoto hasn't been relevant to me in years, but he is right about this.

[AversionFX]

How can you people be so willfully ignorant?

DD is going to screw every single gamer over completely.


Elaborate or stfu. Thanks.

[modeps]

How can you people be so willfully ignorant?

DD is going to screw every single gamer over completely.

Miyamoto hasn't been relevant to me in years, but he is right about this.

The only thing it "screws" us with is the negating of resale value.

[Samstag]

The only thing it "screws" us with is the negating of resale value.

Resale value is just one aspect of the DD effect. It also negates the "bargain bin" and rental economies that give gamers the option to get a much better value for their gaming dollars. We would lose even the $10-off or "get a free gift card with purchase" sales that entice us to one retailer over another.

I can count on one hand the number of full-priced games I've bought in the last 5 years, but I've owned and rented a huge number of games in that time that I would have skipped if I let MS or Sony dictate prices and rights.

I'm okay with not having physical media if I retain basic rights to my purchases. I'll get on board the DD train when I can rent, trade, loan, borrow, and sell my downloaded games for prices comparable to what I'm paying now.

[divinechaos]

Ain't this the same guy that said that online gaming would never be relevant? If it wasn't for soccer moms and 10 year olds Nintendo wouldn't be where they're at right now.

[modeps]

Resale value is just one aspect of the DD effect. It also negates the "bargain bin" and rental economies that give gamers the option to get a much better value for their gaming dollars. We would lose even the $10-off or "get a free gift card with purchase" sales that entice us to one retailer over another.

I can count on one hand the number of full-priced games I've bought in the last 5 years, but I've owned and rented a huge number of games in that time that I would have skipped if I let MS or Sony dictate prices and rights.

I'm okay with not having physical media if I retain basic rights to my purchases. I'll get on board the DD train when I can rent, trade, loan, borrow, and sell my downloaded games for prices comparable to what I'm paying now.

There are sales all the time on DD games... Weekly in fact, on Steam. You can consistently find games for 1/2 price or less on there.

[Johan]

How can you people be so willfully ignorant?

DD is going to screw every single gamer over completely.

Lard needs more meat in his post...and less lard. :D

[brutalus7]

There are sales all the time on DD games... Weekly in fact, on Steam. You can consistently find games for 1/2 price or less on there.

Steam sales are awesome, but what about on XBLA? They have a sale maybe once or twice a year with a handful of mediocre titles for a small percentage off, like $15 to $12.50-$10, $10 to $8. That's not exactly competitive. I don't think I've ever seen a Wii VC sale. Maybe there would be some competition between Sony and Microsoft on 3rd party games, but I can't see them really caring about older games. They would either become unavailable after a couple of years or stay at $30 or more forever.

[Samstag]

There are sales all the time on DD games... Weekly in fact, on Steam. You can consistently find games for 1/2 price or less on there.

To add a bit to brutalus7's explanation, up until very recently I had a pretty huge library (100+) of Xbox 360 games. At least 90% of those were bought for under $20. You may be able to get discounts like that on Steam, but I'm not a PC gamer and I've never seen %66 discounts on XBLA/PSN.

I only have about 60 games in my collection now. The others were traded for a PS3. Try that with your Steam games. ;)

[AversionFX]

Resale value is just one aspect of the DD effect. It also negates the "bargain bin" and rental economies that give gamers the option to get a much better value for their gaming dollars.

Gamefly. Your argument is now void.

You may be able to get discounts like that on Steam, but I'm not a PC gamer and I've never seen %66 discounts on XBLA/PSN.

Your fault for being attached to a closed gaming-structure.

[Lard]

Gamefly. Your argument is now void.
Your fault for being attached to a closed gaming-structure.

You are not the be-all and end-all in this thread.

I don't know why you think your opinion is better than others but why don't you take your head out of your ass before you post next.

[Zurik]

" Entertainment is something that will not just become digital. If I look at Wii MotionPlus, this is something that you're not doing via digital distribution. The thing for us is we really don't see the future of video games being merely confined to digital distribution or moving solely or even to a majority of our products being distributed that way."



How is a controller peripheral the same thing as digital software? The games don't have to be on discs for Wii MotionPlus to work.

Of course we should remember that Nintendo is a stickler for large, physical media, since even in N64 days they wanted to stay with cartridges. They're probably thinking that the new demographic they're going for isn't tech savvy like most of us here. Its a good plan for them I guess.

[MacD]

Tech savvy, Zurik?

The reason Nintendo stuck with cartidges was because the solid state chips had much faster accees times than the newly emerging optical discs. By the time Sony came out with the playstation (which iirc was something Nintendo actually commissioned from them; the Playstation was the optical disc system Nintendo had Sony develop!) however, Nintendo should have transitioned too, but they hung on one generation too long, and disc access was no longer an issue and didn't justify hanging on to those expensive but fast cartidges.

But the 'tech savvy' here would know that cartidges were much faster than optical disc, now wouldn't they.

As for carmudgeonly Miyamoto; the man can design games. He's a master at that. But he just doesn't get the internet. He fucked up on multiplayer with his 'friends codes' and now he's fucking up on DD. Sad, but he's gonna haveta go if N wan't to have a relevant gaming machine.

Then again, N /is/ a company, a hardware company at that. With all the money they're raking in, they might just decide to say 'fuck you!' to gamers and keep cashing in on their 'casual electronic kineticly driven exercise machine' v2. Er, I mean, Wii2 (or would that be Wii^2? Or Wiiii?).

[montemuscle1970]

I could see DD taking over for PC/PC ported games because they don't charge too much money for them anymore. When PC gaming was the thing, they were about $60 bucks a pop. I don't think they'll get rid of physical media for a while though. Then they can't justify charging as much as they do for things.

$30 for a PC port of a game in DD, versus $60 for physical ownership of xbox/ps3/wii content. Now they can charge another 30 bucks for something for spending only another $5 to make a case, art cover, manual, and use of physical media tech. Too profitable to just do away with.

I like having the physical media anyways. But depending on how crazy the technology gets in the future, they may eventually DD pretty much everything, and just find another way to make for money while doing it.

[AversionFX]

I like having the physical media anyways. But depending on how crazy the technology gets in the future, they may eventually DD pretty much everything, and just find another way to make for money while doing it.

The technology already exists. Globally, American internet connections are pretty slow.

http://www.thetechherald.com/article.php/200833/1751/U-S-Internet-connection-speeds-massively-inferior-on-global-stage

The article is a year old, but the point still stands. I would definitely buy fewer games in-store if I had the opportunity to buy them from my home, and download them at 7 MB/S or faster. Given the availability, convenience, and (generally) less expensive nature of DD, faster internet connections would all but put the nail in the coffin of brick/mortar game stores.

[montemuscle1970]

Interesting article. I have to disagree with the part of it stating “it will take the U.S. more than one hundred years to catch up with current Internet speeds in Japan.” though. If you couldn't tell, I'm a conspiracy theorist when it comes to companies making profit. I'm sure its our countries way of milking every dollar they can, and having a reason to charge more money when they upgrade bandwidth speeds.

Anyhow, I'm not opposed to DD myself. It definitely is all of the things you said. I would, however, like to see DD media technology that can have each customers download have its own custom serial number/code embedded in the image or exe files(however they would have it) so that you can burn the file or files to a disc if you wanted.(maybe you already can, I've never looked into that with my steam items) But that still leaves the part about charging an overly profitable amount of money for the physical media. My number are in no way factual, but just an example. When they find a way to charge 50% more money for the product with even less content, (not that I consider cases and manuals and box art to be worth the money, I couldn't care less about those things) DD will be the rage.

Sorry, I can't help but picture a large room with a large table filled with old people sitting around laughing at how much money their ideas will make them no matter what kind of product we're talking about.

[montemuscle1970]

The reason Nintendo stuck with cartidges was because the solid state chips had much faster accees times than the newly emerging optical discs.

Not to mention the quality was lacking in these games when compared to the PS versions. They were a bit faster but also because the size of the games were a fraction of those on CD's (like 1/10th), plus CD drives were barely above 4x at the time.

Plus with DD, load times would be faster as the game would be on a hard drive anyways.

Zurik is right in the sense that its working for them. The Wii is selling like hot cakes and its power is only on par with the gamecube.

[Samstag]

Gamefly. Your argument is now void.

I don't have a clue what you're talking about. Did you completely misunderstand my argument, or are you under the impression that Gamefly will somehow start renting DD content?

Your fault for being attached to a closed gaming-structure.

Well, damn. You got me there. If only I was a PC gamer and used Steam, I could trade, sell, and rent all those Steam games. Right? Any good deals on lightly-used Steam games? No? Good luck with that completely open gaming-structure you think you have.

This isn't a console-PC argument. All my points apply to both. If you don't understand how or why, have an adult* read along with you.

* If you are an adult, try having a child read along with you.

[Venkman]

Miyamoto is a dinosaur.

Go Wii Music!

[the Jack]

Miyamoto's been taking mushrooms for years, he's a kook.

"I need to have the physical product in addition to the digital version..."

Why exactly? He loves clutter? He likes the greenhouse gas that the manufacturing processes produce?

Sorry, old pal, you've just lost all currency you ever had with me.

Edit: You don't need a piece of plastic to have a full experience of any media, you only need the output. If this were true then the experience has degraded for a lot of people since we moved from wax canisters to compact discs. Twits who make the argument for needing packaging need get their heads examined, because they aren't seeing evolution of a form for what it is. /rant

[brutalus7]

Twits who make the argument for needing packaging need get their heads examined, because they aren't seeing evolution of a form for what it is. /rant

We just want to know we are going to have a product we can use in the future. It seems naive to assume that any company will be around and supporting games in 10 years, especially in this economy. Steam is pretty well established now, but is there really any way to know that they will continue to provide 3rd party games in the future? What if they have a big fight with some developer and have to pull their games? I guess you can argue that people don't really go back to old games, and they don't hold up well against new games so it isn't worth your time, but I don't want someone else making that choice for me. I don't think that makes me a twit.

[Verruckt]

That is exactly the reason I prefer physical media. Music I'm fine with, though I always buy the CD I probably wouldn't if I actually bought more than 1 or 2 albums a year, and games I might be fine with, but we're at least a generation away from that, for consoles anyway. I definitely do worry about ownership with movies, though. I watch movies a ton, and re-watch them a ton. I've seen Watchmen 3 times since I got it on DVD <_< >_>, and there are stories that pop up quite a bit of something being pulled from a service (like the recent story of Amazon deleting a version of 1984 from people's Kindles) and I definitely don't want that happening with something that I'd actually notice.

Also, don't iTunes and Zune have exclusive music? How annoying is that?

[the Jack]

We just want to know we are going to have a product we can use in the future. It seems naive to assume that any company will be around and supporting games in 10 years, especially in this economy. Steam is pretty well established now, but is there really any way to know that they will continue to provide 3rd party games in the future? What if they have a big fight with some developer and have to pull their games? I guess you can argue that people don't really go back to old games, and they don't hold up well against new games so it isn't worth your time, but I don't want someone else making that choice for me. I don't think that makes me a twit.
It's the lack of faith in the technology that I find disturbing.

Good digital distributors are recognizing the need for backups, and many of the good ones provide customers with the option to create semi-permanent solutions. GoG and iTunes both have very robust backup options, and Steam has the option although the service will still have to be there to activate.

I say semi-permanent because even current DVD and CD storage solutions will still degrade over time. The little paper books they throw in as "art" will still rot and moulder. Digital information bounced from storage space to storage space won't.

But sure, throw all the what ifs you like around. What if digital distribution becomes the de facto standard? What if companies guarantee backups and support for the lifetime of the software?

What if?

[iChris]

Resale value is just one aspect of the DD effect. It also negates the "bargain bin" and rental economies that give gamers the option to get a much better value for their gaming dollars. We would lose even the $10-off or "get a free gift card with purchase" sales that entice us to one retailer over another.

I can count on one hand the number of full-priced games I've bought in the last 5 years, but I've owned and rented a huge number of games in that time that I would have skipped if I let MS or Sony dictate prices and rights.

I'm okay with not having physical media if I retain basic rights to my purchases. I'll get on board the DD train when I can rent, trade, loan, borrow, and sell my downloaded games for prices comparable to what I'm paying now.

I couldn't agree with you more. DD presents a new challenge where this is concerned. I don't think it's impossible but it's complicated.

I'm not against it but at the same time, I just can't help but feel that people are going to want to continue to have some kind of tactile experience. Music formats are a good example of this. LPs are still being made, CDs are still in production... hell I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the 8-track make a comeback with the hipster set. And all this despite the technological advances in digital distribution. There's always going to be a market for the physical product.

[Lard]

Twits who make the argument for needing packaging need get their heads examined, because they aren't seeing evolution of a form for what it is. /rant

It's not evolution.

It's corporations shoving the way *they* want to do business down our throats.

If you want to bend over and spread your cheeks for them, that's your business, but don't insult everyone who disagrees with you.

Though, funnily enough, that's all anyone who is Pro-DD can do.

They can't actually come up with reasons why DD is better, so they just insult people who don't like it time after time.