DS Redesign Rumors False

[bapenguin]

Gamesindustry.biz (http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=14070) got the scoop that the recent rumors (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8753&highlight=redesign) of a redesigned Nintendo DS coming this week are false.

But a Nintendo spokesperson has dismissed the reports, describing them as "pure rumour and speculation." However, although a redesign will not be revealed as soon as has been rumoured, it seems highly likely that Nintendo will unveil a new, more compact DS at some point in the near future.
Ah well. My guess is that E3 this summer will see the redesign.

[dr_wily]

goddammit^n

[Kelegacy]

Thank goodness.

[YoungAlCapone]

Shocking...

[askheaves]

Damn. I was looking for the new design this morning too.

I want a DS I can fit into my normal-man-sized jean pockets... with a bigger screen... and a better volume control... and a pez dispenser.

[Heretic Machine]

Would they really release a redesigned DS in the same year as the Revolution?

[GrinR]

Redesign please - this time something less hideous and nerdy, please.

[baz]

Would they really release a redesigned DS in the same year as the Revolution?

Yes? I don't see what would stop them, I reckon Big N would have enough resources to carry out both projects pretty easily.

[JRR006]

Aw.

Well, it'll happen some day. *keeps the faith*

[AntB]

Redesign please - this time something less hideous and nerdy, please.

Agreed.


The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

[Phhhh]

Redesign please - this time something less hideous and nerdy, please.

Oh man... that's great flamebait right there. ;)

I like the DS, although a smaller one wouldn't be bad I guess. I'd like a place to put the stylus for easier access, but otherwise I don't really have any gripes with the DS.

[jacktion]

It was almost believeable. If you look at the GBA/GBA sp timeline, this would have matched up.

The GBA sp came out in the middle of January two years after the GBA came out.

The DS came out in 2004 and now it is two years later, 2006, and the middle of January. So there are some similarities. But since the DS is selling like gangbusters it wouldn't really make sense to put out a new one.

[Curi]

I'm fine with the current DS design. I think it looks and plays fine, although as others have said my hands tend to cramp a little during extended sessions.

I'm also glad their waiting because it makes me feel less stupid for picking one up during the holiday season.

[jBusy]

It was almost believeable. If you look at the GBA/GBA sp timeline, this would have matched up.

The GBA sp came out in the middle of January two years after the GBA came out.


In Which case the DS redesign wouldn't come out till 2007 since the DS is only a year old.

[Busted_Astromech]

The DS came out in 2004 and now it is two years later, 2006, and the middle of January.

Just a correction, Jacktion: the DS came out in the end of 2004, so it's really a little over a year old in the US. As the GBA came out in June, it had a year and a half in between. Plus there were serious complaints about the GBA which the DS, as far as I'm concerned, doesn't have--the functionality has no serious oversights which can be corrected without splitting the market.

[see colon]

It was almost believeable. If you look at the GBA/GBA sp timeline, this would have matched up.

The GBA sp came out in the middle of January two years after the GBA came out.

The DS came out in 2004 and now it is two years later, 2006, and the middle of January. So there are some similarities. But since the DS is selling like gangbusters it wouldn't really make sense to put out a new one.
except that the DS came out in november, 2004. so it's really only been on the market for a year. expect the re-design next spring-summer.

[DoubleUranium]

Disappointing. A more comfortable less hideous version would have been welcome and I would have picked one up. I'll just have to keep waiting and take solace in the growing libraries of games I'll have to choose from when the redesign finally makes it out.

[Balthasar]

Ah well. My guess is that E3 this summer will see the redesign.
If they could redesign that thing to look half as slick as the PSP, they could really put a chokehold on the PSP sales. I do loathe the way Nintendo releases a handheld with flawed design/asthetic attributes, only to release another version a year or so later. It would be one thing if they just made it great the first time, and decided to make it better. But here, like with the GBA, there are clearly things that could have and should have been done better.

[Babbster]

I get that the DS is not perfect, but it just doesn't seem to me as bad as some of you folks are making it out to be. I've put in six hours at a time (with short breaks, as anyone should take) on my DS and haven't suffered any more than I would gripping any of my other controllers for that long - since I got used to the layout, of course. Even swapping between stylus and D-pad is now quite natural and quick to me since I've been playing a lot of Animal Crossing where I only use the touch screen for inventory management.

Don't get me wrong: A nice redesign would be great and I'd buy it in a heartbeat - just as I've bought every GB design since the first big gray Gameboy, except the Micro (buying two DS units and an SP was enough for one year). But neither myself nor my mother (for whom I bought a DS because I knew she'd love Meteos) have had a big problem with the DS design.

[thecrazyd]

But here, like with the GBA, there are clearly things that could have and should have been done better.
Like what?

[Cool AN]

It would be a little stupid to redesign it now, with the huge shortage in Japan. Nintendo should concentrate on making as many DS units as they can, and later when sales begin to calm a little down, a redesignment would probably reboost sales.

[Balthasar]

Like what?
Make it less aggregiously ugly? It's not like Nintendo has no sense of style with these things. And yes, I know it has nothing to do with the gameplay on the system itself, but when I'm spending more than 100 dollars on an electronic item, I expect it to not look hideous. In general, the unit probably could be smaller too. It always seemed like there was a lot of wasted space. Perhaps make the unit itself flatter? Most important is just how ugly it is, though. No excuse when you look at the Revolution.

[Kagger]

Make it less aggregiously ugly? It's not like Nintendo has no sense of style with these things. And yes, I know it has nothing to do with the gameplay on the system itself, but when I'm spending more than 100 dollars on an electronic item, I expect it to not look hideous. In general, the unit probably could be smaller too. It always seemed like there was a lot of wasted space. Perhaps make the unit itself flatter? Most important is just how ugly it is, though. No excuse when you look at the Revolution.

Do you own an Xbox? Or perhaps a gamecube? Those are not attractive systems, but they are sure a blast to play.

[Deathbane27]

I'd just love a version that doesn't make my hand cramp up when I'm playing Mario Kart. Seriously, it's a pain in the ass to use those shoulder buttons.

[thecrazyd]

Make it less aggregiously ugly? It's not like Nintendo has no sense of style with these things. And yes, I know it has nothing to do with the gameplay on the system itself, but when I'm spending more than 100 dollars on an electronic item, I expect it to not look hideous. In general, the unit probably could be smaller too. It always seemed like there was a lot of wasted space. Perhaps make the unit itself flatter? Most important is just how ugly it is, though. No excuse when you look at the Revolution.
I don't think something that is a matter of taste counts as something that should "clearly" be done better. I like the look of it, especially the charcoal and red colored ones.

[EvilBob46]

I think it's funny how the argument against the DS, following strong 3rd and 4th quarter releases, has slowly gone from "gimmicky" and "no good games" to complaints about the unit itself not looking sexy enough. I think most people who've spend some time with the DS and actually seen it in person would agree that it doesn't look anywhere close to as slick as the PSP, but to call the unit "hideous" and "egregiously offensive" is an overexaggeration. I'm sorry that a $120 unit, that comes in at half the price of its closest competitor, doesn't impress you enough in the slickness and shininess category and that you find the design offensive, but frankly, most people don't give a damn. You are free to wait for a redesign until you can enjoy the growing library of excellent DS games if you want to. But please pick one up sometime. It's worth it.

[Balthasar]

I think it's funny how the argument against the DS, following strong 3rd and 4th quarter releases, has slowly gone from "gimmicky" and "no good games" to complaints about the unit itself not looking sexy enough. I think most people who've spend some time with the DS and actually seen it in person would agree that it doesn't look anywhere close to as slick as the PSP, but to call the unit "hideous" and "egregiously offensive" is an overexaggeration. I'm sorry that a $120 unit, that comes in at half the price of its closest competitor, doesn't impress you enough in the slickness and shininess category and that you find the design offensive, but frankly, most people don't give a damn. You are free to wait for a redesign until you can enjoy the growing library of excellent DS games if you want to. But please pick one up sometime. It's worth it.
I think you sort of missed my point. My complaint isn't simply that it is ugly or has some design flaw somewhere, but it's more than just a trend now for Nintendo to release a handheld where something is obviously wrong (with the GBA, it was the lack of backlight first, size second), and then double-dip into your wallet by releasing a much better version a year and a half later. How many different versions of the game boy are out there? To date, there are really only three actual generations of Game Boy hardware. Far more revamps, though. And no, I'm not a PSP pusher. The PSP looks much, much better (I have held and played both--both owned by my younger brother, both abandoned by my little brother), but I have zero desire to ever by a PSP.

[Balthasar]

Do you own an Xbox? Or perhaps a gamecube? Those are not attractive systems, but they are sure a blast to play.
DS is much, much uglier to me. The X-Box looks utilitarian, and the Cube looks funny. DS is just ugly.

[thecrazyd]

I think you sort of missed my point. My complaint isn't simply that it is ugly or has some design flaw somewhere, but it's more than just a trend now for Nintendo to release a handheld where something is obviously wrong (with the GBA, it was the lack of backlight first, size second), and then double-dip into your wallet by releasing a much better version a year and a half later. How many different versions of the game boy are out there? To date, there are really only three actual generations of Game Boy hardware. Far more revamps, though. And no, I'm not a PSP pusher. The PSP looks much, much better (I have held and played both--both owned by my younger brother, both abandoned by my little brother), but I have zero desire to ever by a PSP.
So... releasing a superior product is a bad thing? Sony re-released the PS as the PSone, and the PS2 as the PStwo. No one is making you buy the new one, the old one works just as good. If they want to release a smaller version once the tech is cheaper / smaller, then that is a good thing, in my opinion.

[Stormwatcher]

I find the DS to be quite pretty and of decent ergonomics. Balthasar, you repeatedly mention that there is something obviously wrong with the DS beyond looks, but I fail to see what, and the other millions of people who bought one also seem to have had no success in pointing such a big flaw.

I happen to have a DS and I love it. Oh, BTW, the PS2 Slim sucks. very bad. I really wish sony still made the big one.

[Spigot]

Just to throw my hat in the ring, but I like the look of the red DS's. Some of them look pretty ugly (the pink and teal ones come to mind) but I've only had people tell me that my shiny red & silver DS looks cool. I also have a pretty slick little case to carry my DS games and the unit so I don't look AS dorky as I might if I was just lugging it around naked.

As for releasing it when the Rev comes out, I wouldn't be completely surprised. Couldn't the Rev make use of the wireless capabilities of the DS to use it as a supplemental controller much like the GBA-Cube link cables?

Functionally, I have had some slight cramping in my left thumb when playing games that rely heavily on the stylus. It hasn't been anything too debilitating and after 2-3 weeks of solid play, I've built up the muscles in my left thumb to such a degree that it looks disproportionate to my right thumb. The DS has turned me into a FREAK! :)

Now they just need to bundle these adjustable pens (http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/259826.asp) with it and I'd be a super happy Spigot.

[Cubfan]

The DS isn't the finest example of product design, but 'hideous' is a bit of a stretch. It's way to minimal to be considered hideous.

[Kelegacy]

Just to throw my hat in the ring, but I like the look of the red DS's. Some of them look pretty ugly (the pink and teal ones come to mind) but I've only had people tell me that my shiny red & silver DS looks cool. I also have a pretty slick little case to carry my DS games and the unit so I don't look AS dorky as I might if I was just lugging it around naked.

As for releasing it when the Rev comes out, I wouldn't be completely surprised. Couldn't the Rev make use of the wireless capabilities of the DS to use it as a supplemental controller much like the GBA-Cube link cables?

Functionally, I have had some slight cramping in my left thumb when playing games that rely heavily on the stylus. It hasn't been anything too debilitating and after 2-3 weeks of solid play, I've built up the muscles in my left thumb to such a degree that it looks disproportionate to my right thumb. The DS has turned me into a FREAK! :)

Now they just need to bundle these adjustable pens (http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/259826.asp) with it and I'd be a super happy Spigot.

Hmm, I don't really like the looks of my Red DS. I rather like the Platinum one, because the black buttons seem to go with the silver scheme a bit better. The red...well, it makes it look kind of like a child's toy. I said the same to a friend during the Patriots game on Saturday, hoping he'd put my thoughts at ease and he said "Well it is a little kid's toy." I wanted to rip his throat out right then. All of my friends are like that and I have made files for each one on how I will murder them in their sleep.

Anyway, I like the DS, just my Red DS with black buttons kind of clashes with my usual taste.

[mightbe]

I really enjoy the blue one that I recieved as part of the prize support for becoming the Mega Man TCG World Champion '05.

*flexes*

[Balthasar]

So... releasing a superior product is a bad thing? Sony re-released the PS as the PSone, and the PS2 as the PStwo. No one is making you buy the new one, the old one works just as good.
The PSone/Slim-line PS2 are not valid comparisons because they came out, what, 4 years after the original model? Probably more. Not to mention the whole reason those redesigns were possible were because of the decreased costs of parts by then. The GBA's design lacked foresight with it's lack of a backlight on it's dark screen. the release of the SP made me feel like I wasted my money on the GBA as a consumer. There doesn't seem to be any reason why they couldn't have made the first model with one, especially when it was so obvious to anyone that used it that it was in dire need of one.

[Balthasar]

I find the DS to be quite pretty and of decent ergonomics. Balthasar, you repeatedly mention that there is something obviously wrong with the DS beyond looks, but I fail to see what, and the other millions of people who bought one also seem to have had no success in pointing such a big flaw.
I never said that. My original statement was: "I do loathe the way Nintendo releases a handheld with flawed design/asthetic attributes, only to release another version a year or so later. It would be one thing if they just made it great the first time, and decided to make it better. But here, like with the GBA, there are clearly things that could have and should have been done better."

Millions of people are buying the DS because it has clearly better games for it right now. Again, if you read where these comments were coming from, I was talking about the DS cutting into PSP sales further by looking good in addition to having a better software lineup.
I happen to have a DS and I love it. Oh, BTW, the PS2 Slim sucks. very bad. I really wish sony still made the big one.
What's wrong with it? Looks perfectly fine to me. And fucking tiny compared to the original. Glad you're enjoying your DS, btw. I take it some people here are assuming I like the PSP or simply hate the DS because I think it's ugly. I was definitely in the camp of "two screens are completely unnecessary," and I still think they are, but Nintendo has successfully harnessed that hardware to make it completely worthwhile. But they could have and should have done a much better job on it's look and feel.

[Chimpbot]

Like what?

One glaring problem the GBA had was its lack of a blacklight. They corrected that with the SP...which is what [b]made the SP a worthwhile purchase for everyone, including people who already owned a GBA.[/i]

The DS doesn't have any crippling errors or design flaws...sure, it's a tad on the large size, but I haven't had any problems with it thus far. Asthetics aside, there really isn't anything wrong with the DS that would require a redesign on the scale of the SP.

[51|RandoM]

Do you own an Xbox? Or perhaps a gamecube? Those are not attractive systems, but they are sure a blast to play.

I think the gamecube is very attractive. From an industrial design standpoint, it is almost a work of art.

[Opty]

The PSone/Slim-line PS2 are not valid comparisons because they came out, what, 4 years after the original model? Probably more. Not to mention the whole reason those redesigns were possible were because of the decreased costs of parts by then. The GBA's design lacked foresight with it's lack of a backlight on it's dark screen. the release of the SP made me feel like I wasted my money on the GBA as a consumer. There doesn't seem to be any reason why they couldn't have made the first model with one, especially when it was so obvious to anyone that used it that it was in dire need of one.

Bolded part = emphasis mine. This is exactly what Nintendo's doing only in a smaller timeframe.

The first GBA didn't have a backlight because they wanted it to use AA batteries using 2000 era tech, which meant that wasn't possible, so they just reused the GBC's screen tech with the GBA while they figured out a way to make the GBA have lighting. Then with price drops the rechargable battery became a viable thing to include with the system, and the frontlight lighting system used a small amount of power for how much lighting it gave, and so they made the SP. Then with tech advances and more price drops they've made the DS's screen completely backlit with a battery power less than the GBA's (but more if you consider that it's powering two screens). Now since they've got this new backlight technology they're putting it into GBAs and Micros because it's cheaper to order the things in bulk.

For a homework assignment, I want you to take your B.S. in Computer Engineering and design us a DS that could have been put out in 2004 for $150. Go!

Also, the PS2 Slim, at least to me, has longer load times than the big daddy PS2. Also, it overheats much quicker than its big brother who has a fan.

[Balthasar]

Bolded part = emphasis mine. This is exactly what Nintendo's doing only in a smaller timeframe.
You could say that about any company milking it's own market (because lets face it, the handheld market is still Nintendo's market to lose).

The first GBA didn't have a backlight because they wanted it to use AA batteries using 2000 era tech, which meant that wasn't possible, so they just reused the GBC's screen tech with the GBA while they figured out a way to make the GBA have lighting. Then with price drops the rechargable battery became a viable thing to include with the system, and the frontlight lighting system used a small amount of power for how much lighting it gave, and so they made the SP.
Considering the absolute derth of competitive handhelds at the time, they could have either held off the GBA for 6 lousy months or they could have made having a rechargable battery optional. I definitely don't recall AA rechargable batteries being something that would cripple the cost of an appliance, so I don't buy this excuse at all. There are portable appliances out there that use much more power without having battery costs that are unreasonable. If the concern was the actual battery power (which was the official excuse I recall reading), well, rechargable batteries are replacable. I'd rather replace my battery than my whole system. It was a completely avoidable issue, and you're being an appologist for a mistake a majority of GBA owners were complaining about from day one.

Now since they've got this new backlight technology they're putting it into GBAs and Micros because it's cheaper to order the things in bulk.
And please explain to me the use of the Micro?

For a homework assignment, I want you to take your B.S. in Computer Engineering and design us a DS that could have been put out in 2004 for $150. Go!
I don't see what the DS has to do with the GBA's backlighting issues.

Also, the PS2 Slim, at least to me, has longer load times than the big daddy PS2. Also, it overheats much quicker than its big brother who has a fan.
That's interesting. I actually never heard any of the people I know that owns it complain about it at all. That's unfortunate.

[mister_slim]

I think most people who've spend some time with the DS and actually seen it in person would agree that it doesn't look anywhere close to as slick as the PSP, but to call the unit "hideous" and "egregiously offensive" is an overexaggeration.
I must be the only one who thinks the PSP is far too busy and cluttered a design. I've never really liked Sony's over-engineered-pseudo-futuristic style, though.
The GBA's design lacked foresight with it's lack of a backlight on it's dark screen.
They probably could have gotten the battery companies to cover the backlight costs, too.

[nonchalance]

Do you own an Xbox? Or perhaps a gamecube? Those are not attractive systems, but they are sure a blast to play.

I missed the bit where you carry your Xbox around to play in public.

I love my DS, and wouldn't buy a redesign because I simply don't care that much, but it is ugly, large and unwieldy.

[Deadend]

I am kinda glad the DS is not getting a re-design quite yet. As I really doubt they could make one that is much better with only a years worth of time.

Maybe in a couple years Nintendo can put out a better DS.

The Micro was made because Nintendo COULD! They had the tech, they thought there was a market for older gamers wanting a portable system that was durable and old-school. Yeah, it's a bit expensive, $10 more than the regular SP right now, but it fits in the pocket easy, and it looks slick.

Really, the only thing I can see Nintendo changing for a DS revision besides slimming it down would be adding in a webbrowser and multimedia capabilities. The system could be a few cm thinner, and the buttons are small and fugly, and the system does not balance well for one handed holding. I figure that in the next 2 years Nintendo will cut off at least a centimeter from every side and make the pad better.

[Balthasar]

The Micro was made because Nintendo COULD!
That's my point! They own the market, and they milk it whenever they feel like it. They put out a great handheld product, but it's fucking annoying. Apple started sliding in that territory a bit when they released the 5G iPod so soon after the iPod Photo. It redeams itself in a way by being as much as the 4G iPod, with better battery life, slimmer design, and more HDD space (not to mention the video capabilities), but it completely fucks over anyone that spent more money for an iPod Photo. And you can bet they got away with it too, because as much as Apple have competitors in the portable music market, Apple are completely dominating right now.

[TheBrainKills]

let me get this strait... having products on the market that are better, is a bad thing?
Are you nuts? If you don't like it, don't buy it.

[Busted_Astromech]

No, he's alleging that Nintendo purposefully cripples its handhelds to increase adoption of its revisions.

I don't buy it myself, and my logic is pretty straightforward. Nintendo's hardware design has been, is, and always will be, focused on cost/benefit. The GameCube is an extremely nifty and capable piece of tech for what it is--and it has hardly anything more than it needs. Same with the GBA. Nintendo knew it would be nice to have a backlit screen but did not consider it to be worth the extra money when it would already be launching a new, expensive handheld. When they did it two years later, two things had happened: the price and efficiency of the lighting solutions were better, and the GBA was a proven entity that could rely on a current catalog of games, rather than launching fresh. In short, the market was better able to handle the SP in 2003 than in 2001.

Therefore I do not believe that Nintendo leaves features out of its systems in order to shaft consumers. Instead I believe that each console design is predicated to a large degree on the cost of its components and the worth Nintendo thinks it can get out of them.

And I still don't see any faults in the DS's design. I personally like its design and think you have a quibble over aesthetics, something which is to a large degree subjective. I think of the DS as inheriting a sense of style from the Game and Watch games and the Famicom--a retro styling yet with cleaner lines. It works for me.

[Balthasar]

No, he's alleging that Nintendo purposefully cripples its handhelds to increase adoption of its revisions.
No, not quite. It's more that they increase the rate of obsolescence of their products by rapidly bringing new versions/upgrades of a similar product to market, which goes completely unchecked due to their dominance of said market. That's why I brought up Apple and what happened with thier iPod Photo to 5G iPod (the video iPod).

[mister_slim]

Re: The original GBA.

Afterburner ate batteries. Nintendo remembers the Game Gear.

[Deadend]

No, not quite. It's more that they increase the rate of obsolescence of their products by rapidly bringing new versions/upgrades of a similar product to market, which goes completely unchecked due to their dominance of said market. That's why I brought up Apple and what happened with thier iPod Photo to 5G iPod (the video iPod).

Well, I personally think that the Photo=>Video was more of a software thing. Yeah, there may be more chips or whatever, but it felot more of a software enable.

Nintendo does their systems the way they do to keep costs down. The Micro would have been over $150 in 2003, and $200 in 2000, just based on the size. But, Nintendo is doing a good job of keeping up to date. I also like their hardware 'upgrades' more than other companies. As the Micro added nothing but a diffrent frame for the same hardware.

Yeah, I understand that Nintendo has so much control they can do whatever they want, but they seem to be good at sticking to the core of what the system should do.

I like the evolution of the GBA, the first GBA was good for it's time. Back then, backlights tended to suck batteries like none other. 2 years later, and they were able to release a new hardware revision. It's not like Nintendo declared that old GBAs can't play new games. Yeah, I think the SP had a flaw, namely the bizare lack of a headphone jack. The micro is probably the final evolution of GBA.

I think there will be a revision at some point of the DS hardware, it may not be any time soon though. It will not be until it can be done cheaply and be worth it.

I see Nintendo as trying their best to make a good system, but then they find ways to do it better. As opposed to Apple where there are perfect examples of features to add, yet Apple adds them one-at-a-time. Where is the gapless playback? Where are the advanced EQ settings?

Oh, and sneak-releasing new MP3 players is not very nice. At least Nintendo gives warning when they do hardware revisions.

[51|RandoM]

Apple started sliding in that territory...

Apple didn't slide into the territory, they pioneered it over a decade ago. They're the masters at orphaning hardware platforms.

[Spigot]

They should have gyroscopes in the new DS to help it better balance itself when held one-handed.

[Kelegacy]

They should have gyroscopes in the new DS to help it better balance itself when held one-handed.
And a hole for my penis.

[Balthasar]

Re: The original GBA.

Afterburner ate batteries. Nintendo remembers the Game Gear.
So do I. I liked that handheld, played Sonic on it to death. Didn't buy much for it, though. The battery issue was annoying, but if the issue is better batteries (as opposed to the way the unit uses the battery power) then I can't see why they couldn't just release a better battery later on. If the issue was the unit itself, I don't see why, after the Game Boy Color, they needed to rush the GBA out there. They could have waited 6 months, even a year. I mean, exactly who were they worried about?

[Balthasar]

Well, I personally think that the Photo=>Video was more of a software thing. Yeah, there may be more chips or whatever, but it felot more of a software enable.
It's more than software, or else Apple has suddenly decided they're prefectly okay with taking a loss on their latest iPods. You get much more for your money with the 5G iPod than you did with the iPod Photo. The Photo cost more than the 4G and 5G and was bulkier than both.

I see Nintendo as trying their best to make a good system, but then they find ways to do it better.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2001/06/13

As opposed to Apple where there are perfect examples of features to add, yet Apple adds them one-at-a-time. Where is the gapless playback? Where are the advanced EQ settings?
The gapless playback between songs is certainly something I would like to see, however, which players on the market do have that currently? Also, Apple's playlist software still seems to be vastly superior to everyone else's. Smart playlists are, in two words, the shit. The video capabilities, for the price and the size and the look of the unit, are not currently matched. All the other portable harddrive video players are significantly bigger and more expensive. It would be nice if that new FM tuner played AM. I don't listen to FM at all anymore, save the occasional listen of NPR.

Oh, and sneak-releasing new MP3 players is not very nice. At least Nintendo gives warning when they do hardware revisions.
It's evil in that it doesn't stop you from buying the hardware that's about to become last-generation the day before the new stuff comes out. I hate it, but it's pretty slick.

[31 Flavas]

Nintendo does their systems the way they do to keep costs down. The Micro would have been over $150 in 2003, and $200 in 2000, just based on the size. But, Nintendo is doing a good job of keeping up to date. I also like their hardware 'upgrades' more than other companies. As the Micro added nothing but a diffrent frame for the same hardware.I don't know if you've actually used a Micro yet (wouldn't blame you if you havn't). The picture produced on Micro's screen is by far the best yet. You can't match the clairty and sharpness produced even with an HDTV, progressive scan and GameBoy Player (yes, i own all three). Although when I had my friend try it he said he couldn't notice a difference, so I guess YMMV, but I think he's just dismissing it.

Yeah, I understand that Nintendo has so much control they can do whatever they want, but they seem to be good at sticking to the core of what the system should do.Yea, honestly, they could do a lot worse to us if they wanted. But they produce durable, reliable, and long battery life units. The colors and themed units are just icing on the cake, so to say, for the customers.

[Opty]

So your argument is "they should have released a console as poorly thought out as the Game Gear just so I could have spent more money on batteries instead of purchasing a whole new unit?" I guess I'm done reading this thread.

[Balthasar]

So your argument is "they should have released a console as poorly thought out as the Game Gear just so I could have spent more money on batteries instead of purchasing a whole new unit?" I guess I'm done reading this thread.
If you want to keep making up my comments instead of reading what I actually wrote, you'd do yourself well by finding something else to do. Something that doesn't require any reading comprehension.

[31 Flavas]

If you want to keep making up my comments instead of reading what I actually wrote, you'd do yourself well by finding something else to do. Something that doesn't require any reading comprehension.Well then what are you saying? As far as I can gather from your written comments, You _would_ rather prefer X gaming device to be released with built in lighting at the expense of having critical battery problems and a high price tag. Where as the rest of us would like to wait for equipment prices and battery life to improve before releasing a unit with built in lighting.

[Balthasar]

Well then what are you saying?
Here is what I am saying, since you are unable to go back in the thread to see what I actually wrote, regarding my issue with multiple versions of the GB on the market: "...[the problem is] more that they increase the rate of obsolescence of their products by rapidly bringing new versions/upgrades of a similar product to market, which goes completely unchecked due to their dominance of said market."
Work with that.

[31 Flavas]

Here is what I am saying, since you are unable to go back in the thread to see what I actually wrote, regarding my issue with multiple versions of the GB on the market: "...[the problem is] more that they increase the rate of obsolescence of their products by rapidly bringing new versions/upgrades of a similar product to market, which goes completely unchecked due to their dominance of said market."
Work with that.Since when though has your GBA become obsolete just because the SP is released? I'll agree with you that the newer model is certainly more desirable, but your games don't stop working just because a new model is released.

Nor do existing lighting solutions. For $10 at GameStop, I picked up a nice mini-floresent light that gave more then sufficiant light and also folded down as a screen protector. The moral of the story is I had no need for an SP until xmas when I could request one as a present.

It's your problem if you can't stand to not have the latest and greatest. There were plenty of lighting solutions available, including good old free sunlight.

[Balthasar]

Since when though has your GBA become obsolete just because the SP is released? I'll agree with you that the newer model is certainly more desirable, but your games don't stop working just because a new model is released.
Whatever, man. You enjoy buying flawed products that get redesigned with a short turnaround? Great. I don't.

[mister_slim]

Whatever, man. You enjoy buying flawed products that get redesigned with a short turnaround? Great. I don't.
Try to avoid ever buying any consumer electronics.

[Balthasar]

Try to avoid ever buying any consumer electronics.
The problem is not better products being released down the road. I expect that. If you don't get it, that's fine. I don't really care to continue this.

[31 Flavas]

Whatever, man. You enjoy buying flawed products that get redesigned with a short turnaround? Great. I don't.Yet, you wouldn't mind having a product released with a critical battery problem, just so long as you can eventually purchase a _replacement_ extended life battery to _fix_ said problem.

The problem is not better products being released down the road. I expect that. If you don't get it, that's fine. I don't really care to continue this.I(We?) just enjoy playing GameBoy games instead of worrying about cosmetic issues like lighting. I have been playing GameBoy since its original release so finding light or lighting solutions, just isn't a problem.

[Balthasar]

Yet, you wouldn't mind having a product released with a critical battery problem, just so long as you can eventually purchase a _replacement_ extended life battery to _fix_ said problem.
Yes, as I indicated before, I'd rather replace a battery (which are not that expensive) than have to replace the entire unit.

I(We?) just enjoy playing GameBoy games instead of worrying about cosmetic issues like lighting.
Lighting is hardly a cosmetic issue when it prevents you to see what the hell you are doing. Don't be so glib.

[31 Flavas]

Yes, as I indicated before, I'd rather replace a battery (which are not that expensive) than have to replace the entire unit.I'd rather be able to play my games, then have to recharge every half hour.

Lighting is hardly a cosmetic issue when it prevents you to see what the hell you are doing. Don't be so glib.Um... So everyone was doing fine with their GB / GBC without any built in light, but all of a sudden, with GBA, noone can see what the hell to do? Don't be so glib yourself.

[Balthasar]

I'd rather be able to play my games, then have to recharge every half hour.
Gross overexaggeration. But again, you're trying to argue with me about my personal preferences. Let it go, it's not an argument you will ever win.

Um... So everyone was doing fine with their GB / GBC without any built in light, but all of a sudden, with GBA, noone can see what the hell to do? Don't be so glib yourself.
Please. With the color depth in the GBA, it became significantly more difficult to distinguish on-screen action. I never had a GBC, but I did have a GB and the GBA, and it was a big difference in terms of lighting needs. Do you even know what glib means?

[Spigot]

The fact of the matter is that the original GBA's shipped with very dark screens. The dev kits used by manufacturers were much brighter than the actual unit, causing many games (see Castlevania: Circle Of The Moon) to be very dark and hard to see.

It wasn't a broken system though. I didn't get an SP until last summer and that was only because I found it cheap and used. I loved the shape of the original GBA and the backlight was the only thing missing.

I have no urge to get the Micro though. Now that I have my DS and my other two GBAs, there really is no need to get a teeny tiny GBA to fit in my pocket.

[Busted_Astromech]

Okay....ignoring this recent spat, Balthasar, you're still alleging that Nintendo left a light out of the GBA for no reason other than to sell a lit model later. Let's think about this. Nintendo had several options:
1)Release the GBA for a higher price and with a shorter battery life. Nintendo, who was privy to the price/battery tradeoffs, determined that no light would make more sense, and it did: the Game Boy line is not supposed to be expensive, it's supposed to be something kids own and Nintendo can't release a deluxe unit like the PSP.

2)Release two products at launch. Not going to happen with Nintendo. Heck, they didn't even sell component cables for the GameCube to stores! A two-SKU solution would be unacceptable to the big N.

3)Release the GBA as is. When the price and efficiency of lighting comes down, release an expanded model.

I think they made the best choice. Frankly I can't see them making any other. Yes, it would have been nice if they had a light in the original GBA. But given how much the GBA needed to cost, it was unfeasible.

Edit: Regarding the Micro. I certainly don't see the Micro as another pointless upgrade. It doesn't add features, it's not necessary, it's just a repackage. It's a variation on a product geared towards a specific market--offered both, I'd rather have an SP. I hope you're not grouping the Micro in with the SP, Balthasar?

[Spigot]

Edit: Regarding the Micro. I certainly don't see the Micro as another pointless upgrade. It doesn't add features, it's not necessary, it's just a repackage. It's a variation on a product geared towards a specific market--offered both, I'd rather have an SP. I hope you're not grouping the Micro in with the SP, Balthasar?
I hear ya. I don't have a problem with the Micro, per se. It's a snazzy little unit with what I hear is one of the best screens on a Nintendo handheld. If I was to introduce someone to the GBA and they weren't quite ready for a DS, I'd get them the Micro.

That said, for those of us who already have 1, 2 or even 3 Nintendo handhelds (of the DS and GBA generation), I'd have to say that it's a pointless purchase. Just stick with the SP unless you really need to sneak your portable gaming system somewhere that the SP wouldn't fit.

That sounded so wrong...

[nonchalance]

That said, for those of us who already have 1, 2 or even 3 Nintendo handhelds (of the DS and GBA generation), I'd have to say that it's a pointless purchase.

This seems obvious to me.
In the same vein, because I have a DS, I would consider purchasing an SP or a GBA or a Micro pointless.

[Spigot]

This seems obvious to me.
In the same vein, because I have a DS, I would consider purchasing an SP or a GBA or a Micro pointless.
The only reason I would argue with you here is that the DS doesn't have the link capabilities with the Cube. You can't play games like FF:CC multiplayer if you don't have the link cable and a GBA or SP.

But that would really be the only reason I could see bothering with a GBA/SP if you already have a DS.

[nonchalance]

You can't play games like FF:CC multiplayer if you don't have the link cable and a GBA or SP.

True. But I don't particularly want to do so - and more to the point, I don't have a Cube.

[Balthasar]

Okay....ignoring this recent spat, Balthasar, you're still alleging that Nintendo left a light out of the GBA for no reason other than to sell a lit model later.
No I am not. For the last time, my specific comment was: "...[the problem is] more that they increase the rate of obsolescence of their products by rapidly bringing new versions/upgrades of a similar product to market, which goes completely unchecked due to their dominance of said market."

Why must my comment repeatedly be altered to fit your defense of Nintendo? If you don't understand what I mean by this quote, then ask. But don't put words in my mouth. I cannot, in the same breath, refer to the GBA's lack of a light as a "mistake" and also as an intentional ploy.

[Busted_Astromech]

I apologize for misinterpreting you, Balthasar. The error is mine.

I still have a problem with your logic, though.

[The problem is] more that they increase the rate of obsolescence of their products by rapidly bringing new versions/upgrades of a similar product to market, which goes completely unchecked due to their dominance of said market.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but this indicates you'd rather Nintendo hadn't released the SP at all, and the DS would thus have been the first handheld since the GBA. Am I correct?

If that's your opinion, well, I don't see how an SP makes the original GBA obsolete. If one were to buy a GBA in 2001, and the SP were to never come out, the GBA would still have no light. The GBA would not become obsolete any more than it is now. The SP is designed so as not to split the user base. It's a completely optional upgrade--a hardware revision--and so it in no way renders the GBA obsolete. It makes it less desirable, yes, but the GBA will still perform all of its original functions for just as long. The SP added, it didn't take away.

[Balthasar]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but this indicates you'd rather Nintendo hadn't released the SP at all, and the DS would thus have been the first handheld since the GBA. Am I correct?
No, because then we would have been left with the poorly-lit GBA. I would have rathered they designed the GBA without such an obvious and crippling flaw (unless you live Alaska and only play your GBA during the summer). If there was no way they could produce a color handheld without including a back or frontlight of some sort, I would rather they have waited. There was no rush.

If that's your opinion, well, I don't see how an SP makes the original GBA obsolete. If one were to buy a GBA in 2001, and the SP were to never come out, the GBA would still have no light. The GBA would not become obsolete any more than it is now.
The GBA was obsolete the moment I bought it, agreed.

[Busted_Astromech]

Ah! So you feel Nintendo should have held off on the GBA. Well, all right--but if they had done that and released only the SP, we'd still likely have seen another handheld to compete against the PSP--and then the GBA would have had a much shorter lifespan. And you'd still have your complaint about Nintendo making its hardware obsolete.

So I really don't see a better way of doing this. Nintendo wasn't going to release a lit-screen GBA in 2001; they just don't design hardware that goes above and beyond the call of duty, only hardware that meets specifications to a T. And they were probably right--I don't think it impacted the GBA much to not be lit, and if they had a light we'd probably have people who complained about the battery life and price.

[mister_slim]

Given Nintendo the benefit of the doubt and assuming their light is more efficient than the Afterburner, it would still be a ridiculously short battery life.