Nintendo Survey Reveals Possible Pricing Models for Revolution's Virtual Console

[fushi]

Joystiq once again fuels the flames of speculation (http://www.joystiq.com/2006/01/10/nintendo-conducts-virtual-console-service-survey/), this time tackling the Virtual Console system -- Nintendo's retrogame emulation service for the Revolution -- by mentioning a recently conducted survey that, among other things, proposes 3 different pricing models:

Game purchase: You may be able to buy retro games and save them to the Nintendo Revolution's memory, so they are always available.

Game rental: You may be able to rent games for a specified period.

Game subscription: By paying a monthly subscription fee, you will be able to add a certain number of games to your personal game library each month. You will be able to play all of the games in your library, including those that you added in previous months, as long as you continue your subscription. Note that one subscription option would allow for 'unlimited' access to the Virtual Console library. This means you could play any Virtual Console game as long as you maintained your subscription.
The list is followed by a handful of mock-ups and a fairly short list of games that will be available at launch for emulation. Among those listed is a fairly surprising entry, though: Sin & Punishment (http://tang.mspencer.net/manga/snp/sin_frame.html) (URL not related), a Japan only on-the-rails shooter that was developed by Treasure and published by, surprise, Nintendo.

One wonders if releasing fewer games on launch is a deliberate move on Nintendo's part to 1) drive sales of less popular games and 2) avoid overwhelming first-timers. It smells a lot like them, if you ask me.

[Rirath]

I'm convinced Nintendo's business model for next gen is an itunes like retro games store.
Seems laughably screwy to me, but I'm sure folks will eat it up.

[bardockkun]

If it has Sin and Punishment and other import Nintendo games never released (but hopefully translated) then i'm sold...once more!

[Zanzibar]

OMG the 'subscription' model would SUUUUUCK. You don't get ALL the games when you sign up, only a few every month - but if it lapses, you're SOL. Even though you've paid money, POOF - no more games for you. So if you've been a member and paid the monthly fees for a year and have 24 games, you will have NOTHING to show for it unless you renew.

[Evil Avatar]

This is one of the coolest features of Xbox Live for the 360. I've purchased all the retro arcade titles and Geometry Wars. That is over $25.00 in games so far and I'm sure I'll buy more.

I wasn't impressed with this idea when I first heard about it, but I think Nintendo is really onto something here with their classic titles since they have such a die-hard following.

I just hope they do what Microsoft is doing and they "update" each title so it looks good on current hardware.

About the only thing I don't like about 360's Live is the themes and icons, you can't preview them before you buy them. I purchased like three GUN icons and I wasn't impressed with any of them.

[bapenguin]

About the only thing I don't like about 360's Live is the themes and icons, you can't preview them before you buy them. I purchased like three GUN icons and I wasn't impressed with any of them.

Ya, it's pretty lame. You can preview the stuff on the XBox website but what's the point?

I just hope Nintendo keeps the titles cheap. If they aren't going to update them $2 or $3 seems fair. The newer ones 5 or 10 maybe.

[netcraazzy]

The thought of repurchasing old games for a new platform has never sat well with me. Still...if they make it as easy as the marketplace is on live then they may get a few game purchases out of me since it's a pain to pull out my old consoles every time I want a nostalgia trip. I do think that once the final game lineup is released there are going to be some disappointed people. Some people are expecting all their favorite games to be there which simply will not be possible since most 3rd party titles will not be available.

[Nite_Moogle]

How about a rental with the option to buy? Something like Chrono Trigger I would want to keep forever, but I'm sure there are dozens of other games I'd like to try out that I never got a chance to.

[Kagger]

How about a rental with the option to buy? Something like Chrono Trigger I would want to keep forever, but I'm sure there are dozens of other games I'd like to try out that I never got a chance to.



do think that once the final game lineup is released there are going to be some disappointed people. Some people are expecting all their favorite games to be there which simply will not be possible since most 3rd party titles will not be available.

That's the kind of stuff he's talking about. Square-Enix is releasing their classics on their own, and you probably won't have Chrono Trigger.


I concurc, I always HATED the idea of subscription steam. Let's say you subscribe for enough time that you would have paid off all your games...but they still aren't your's to keep.


I want games like Super Mario RPG, where to get the cart's is like 20-30 dollars off ebay.

[Nite_Moogle]

That was just an example. I'd cough up some cash for something like Zelda: OoT too. :)

[amusedtoe]

I definately think they're keeping it limited right now for purely profit reasons. Right now, and granted the only thing we know of is SSB so far, but there's a good chance that with the back library and the fact that it can play GC games (of which I've barely started to dig into the library) I may very well buy nothing but the console.

[Kagger]

That was just an example. I'd cough up some cash for something like Zelda: OoT too. :)


Oh yeah, me too. I have yet to play it *dodges bullets* (I didn't own a 64, or a cube...but it's one of those games I will get).


I want chrono trigger on the ds...so bad.

[amusedtoe]

Last time I checked Sqenixwhateverit'sbecomenow and Nintendo may not be bitterly opposed anymore, but they're not really skipping down the lane together hand in hand. I'm still surprised we're getting as many old FF ports as we are.

[agentgray]

It smells a lot like them, if you ask me.
Sigh. Nr. 1 Microsoft fanboy.

Great article find. However, I'm not familair with what you are referring to by that comment? I'm being serious.

[CrysDark]

Didn't nintendo require some pretty hard-core licensing restrictions, like nintendo has partial ownership on the games released for thier console? I would not be surprised if we see the entire library from the nes/snes days.


If there are no Square Games, I won't be using the Service.

[SMES]

I'm pretty sure that it is *possible* that third party titles will be included at some point, especially if the service is successful after launch.

There may be some cause for concern about the release of certain games, though, that third parties are marketing as full priced games on handhelds.

FFIV comes to mind. With Squenix charging GBA prices for it, would they be willing to sell it for a micropayment on the Revolution?

[CrysDark]

What you are paying for is an updated revision though, what about the original version of the game?

[Nite_Moogle]

Direct downloads cut a lot of the middle man out (see iTunes pricing vs CDs) and so you usually get a cheaper price than you normally would. Not to mention if Nintendo writes its emulators well enough it's going to require a very minimal amount of work to get a product ready to go that they sold fifteen years ago. It's cash waiting to be made.
If there are no Square Games, I won't be using the Service.
I have one word for you sir: Contra.

[bskeillor]

Nice to see the Rare games on there. Gives me hope that they will release Pinbot and High Speed from the NES days. Cobra Triangle is also one I want to get my hands on again.

[trip1eX]

Well the 360 is charging $5 to $10 per game on it's Arcade service for what are pretty simple games. I'd guess Nintendo doesn't stray too far from those prices. It would neat if they offer multiplayer over the net and compatibility with the Rev controller's new functions and voip too at least for friends.

[Kagger]

I want goldeneye over the internet* drools*

[SMES]

I want goldeneye over the internet* drools*

So that when 9 year olds pwn me, they can add insult to injury by playing as Oddjob? ;)

[nonchalance]

Theory.

Revolution operates on a subscription model. You pay $X per month, plus an $X installation fee. The installation fee includes a console.
As per cable TV.

[amusedtoe]

So that when 9 year olds pwn me, they can add insult to injury by playing as Oddjob? ;)

Pfft, no second analog stick and kids these days are lost. I can't even count the hours we spent in my friends basement playing that bloody game. Oh wait, it was called middle school.

[SMES]

Theory.

Revolution operates on a subscription model. You pay $X per month, plus an $X installation fee. The installation fee includes a console.
As per cable TV.

I believe you just described Xbox Live as well.

Edit: I just realized that you meant the Revolution could require this service, and the installation fee/cost of console will be much cheaper.

Interesting idea... it works for TiVo. I suppose if they gave you a Revolution for free with a 1 or 2 year contract @ $60 a year, they could sell quite a few of them.

It's hard to factor in the retail game situation- and would the Revolution disable itself if you tried to disconnect it to play Mario Sunshine or RE4? Sounds like DivX players to me.

Still, an interesting idea.

[nonchalance]

I believe you just described Xbox Live as well.

I guess so - but it's a matter of the advertising method, and the business model. Xbox Live is an added feature you can choose to pay for by picking up the console.

edit: Your clarification is much clearer than mine. Your edit is exactly what I'm talking about.

[Lon Lon Rabbit]

If it has Sin and Punishment and other import Nintendo games never released (but hopefully translated) then i'm sold...once more!

Sin and Punishment has Japanese menus but the story/voices are all in english. If this really does come out anyone who purchases a Rev MUST buy this game too, even if you're scared of those squiggly symbols. I have a copy for N64 but my converter for my PAL N64 is for US conversion only, so I've played it a tonne on my computer but it's pretty glitchy in the cutscenes. I never expected them to put this game up for download, I really hope it proves true.

[fushi]

Sigh. Nr. 1 Microsoft fanboy.
Haha. That's just in jest. Seriously, I'm probably going to camp outside a store just so I can pick up the Revolution first.
Great article find. However, I'm not familair with what you are referring to by that comment? I'm being serious.
I was mostly referring to the Classic NES Series. Not releasing a big amount of games at once and setting a price point that is just a bit below the 'too high' mark and hovering above the 'just right' mark.

Ok, it's not a very good example, but if there's anyone who knows how to maximally gain money out of something, then it's Nintendo.

[bapenguin]

Well the 360 is charging $5 to $10 per game on it's Arcade service for what are pretty simple games. I'd guess Nintendo doesn't stray too far from those prices. It would neat if they offer multiplayer over the net and compatibility with the Rev controller's new functions and voip too at least for friends.

Ya the reason the 360 games are worth 5 or 10 bucks is because they either/or/and the following

1) Updated Graphics
2) Run in Hi-Def
3) Online Multiplayer
4) Online Leaderboards
5) Achievements

All of the games support most of those things. If they were plain vanilla ports...I'd call rip off.

[Bydo_Empire]

I would love an iTunes-like model. I want to buy it once at a reasonable price and own it (obviously, free would be better, but I don't really expect that). If they're charging a monthly fee I'll be sorely diasppointed, and won't be using the service.

[divinechaos]

i'll join the *drool*crowd if they have Perfect dark with updated graphix. I would probably pay as much as 50 bux for that one.

[mister_slim]

I don't know, the interface screens seem off. If they're just placeholder screens there's no reason to ask people what they think of the Option menu or something.

Now all we need is to get Sony selling PS1 and (eventually) PS2 downloads through the PS3. That's going to need a big hard drive and fast connection though. Some smart streaming could take care of that pretty well.
That's the kind of stuff he's talking about. Square-Enix is releasing their classics on their own, and you probably won't have Chrono Trigger.
Actually, I'd imagine the margin for Chrono Trigger downloads would look pretty good compared to selling it and another game for $20 minus retail, licensing, and manufacturing. But beyond that, S-E almost certainly has some games that don't make sense in a retail channel but could bring in some money through a download.
Pfft, no second analog stick and kids these days are lost. I can't even count the hours we spent in my friends basement playing that bloody game. Oh wait, it was called middle school.
I wonder if they could patch together the dual analog mode to work with just one controller? Seems like it would be feasible, just remapping some controls a bit.

[Dark Hamlet]

i'll join the *drool*crowd if they have Perfect dark with updated graphix. I would probably pay as much as 50 bux for that one.

I'm with you. If they even release PD without updated graphics, but a decent framerate, I'm sold. That's a system seller if you ask me. I just hope that Nintendo is allowed to release Rare titles even though Rare is with Microsoft now. I'm not sure how all of those licensing shenanigans work.

[Phanto]

This is the second time i will said this:

The "revolution Virtual Console sound great and all, but if you are a PC gamer you know don't even worry about that, years of emulation on the PC and now people start buying those games?!?
In my opinion thats pathetic, i know that the "Revolution Virtual Console" may come very handy to those how play only console games.
But for those PC users, there have been around more than 5 years emulation for Sega, Nes, Snes, N64, GB, If i'm correct PSP too, Sega Saturn, Mame, PSX, Sega Game Gear, even a PS2 emulator is on the way as we speak oh an GC as well ( i have to check this last one to confirm it myself ;) ).
Anyway that just my opinion. :)

[fushi]

This is the second time i will said this:
Hopefully the last, too. Leave EvAv if you want to advocate piracy. The Virtual Console is for people who want to support the creators of a game, not shit on their efforts.

[see colon]

This is the second time i will said this:

The "revolution Virtual Console sound great and all, but if you are a PC gamer you know don't even worry about that, years of emulation on the PC and now people start buying those games?!?
In my opinion thats pathetic, i know that the "Revolution Virtual Console" may come very handy to those how play only console games.
But for those PC users, there have been around more than 5 years emulation for Sega, Nes, Snes, N64, GB, If i'm correct PSP too, Sega Saturn, Mame, PSX, Sega Game Gear, even a PS2 emulator is on the way as we speak oh an GC as well ( i have to check this last one to confirm it myself ;) ).
Anyway that just my opinion. :)
virtual console gives people who fallow the law legal rights to play games they missed on earlier consoles.

has anyone else wondered about nintendo's DRM they were touting at E3? that, combined with the fact that revolution will use SD flash cards... what if virtual console games could be playable on more than just revolution?

[EternalGamer]

virtual console gives people who fallow the law legal rights to play games they missed on earlier consoles.

has anyone else wondered about nintendo's DRM they were touting at E3? that, combined with the fact that revolution will use SD flash cards... what if virtual console games could be playable on more than just revolution?

I was thinking of this myself. It would be awesome if Nintendo let you, say play the NES, SNES and N64 stuff on the DS. Download it and take it with you. That would be the ulimate download service in my opinion. And it would be smart business for Nintendo, allowing the to strengthen their market on two fronts at the same time.

Dan

[see colon]

i was thinking more of the next gen gameboy. it should far excede the capabilities of the N64, and very well might have an SD slot built in, for all we know. nintendo has toyed with various cheap distribution models in the past (disk system for famicom, ereader for GBA, electronic distribution with iQue), and i can't help but think they're building up to something new. and why not. look at the finacial success steam has brought valve.

[CapnBob]

Cobra Triangle is also one I want to get my hands on again.

Why, do you miss crying yourself to sleep out of frustration THAT much?

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I'm all for the buying model - I don't want a subscription. Maybe allow people a choice?

I can't really see them just charging $2 for a game. I think that 5, 10, and 15 dollars for NES, SNES, and N64 games is more than fair. I'd certainly be willing to pay that.

They've already stated that all Nintendo published titles will be available, and several third party ones as well. I hadn't thought about them staggering the releases, although I guess that makes some sense. I hope it doesn't take them long to get the good titles out - I really, really, really want Mario RPG and Kirby Superstar - both games that cost an arm and a leg to buy these days.

Nintendo has also said that they will be able to update the graphics, but I'm not so sure that this is a good idea. I really want to play the games in their original form. The only upgrade I'd really like is if they took the blurriness out of the N64 games, which I'd say is almost assured. Hell at $15 a piece I'd buy all of my N64 games over again if the blurriness was gone, as well as the framerate issues in games like Perfect Dark. As long as the multiplayer is still there, that would be great!

I'm extremely excited about the possibilities of this service, and I really hope that they do not screw it up.


Edit - I just read the list of launch titles and saw that both Kirby Superstar and Mario RPG are already on there, as well as Ogre Battle 64!! I always wanted to get that title but could never find a copy (I don't really use eBay.) Now I am even more excited. :D

Edit Edit - If Kirby Superstar includes the spectacular co-op mode that the original had, I'd be willing to pay even more than $10. Hell, $30 would be worth it, not that I would condone Nintendo charging that much for SNES titles.

[SMES]

With my Nostradamus-like prediction ability, I say that $9.99 is the sweet spot for marginally updated, faithful ports of the majority of SNES and N64 games. A $4.99 price seems reasonable to me for NES games.

Of course, I just made all that up, and if you're willing to pay $30 for a downloaded Kirby Superstar, more power to you.

[Nessus]

Why is everyone complaining about the subscription model? Sure it's not something I'd likely be interested in (I hate monthly fees of any kind, which is why I won't be getting Xbox Live any time soon), but I don't see how it's any different from, say Sega Channel.

So you pay several months and download a ton of games but then can't afford it for a couple months. Drop the service and resume when you're able to (hopefully the game saves will remain on the flash drive).

That's all assuming this news is real. I'm suspicious. But I think a subscription model would work really well with the very same casual audience they're targeting. And according to the article it's not the only option. So once again, you're angry because they're offering you more choice?

[bskeillor]

One thing that I am very dissapointed in Nintendo is the way they handle their catalog. My guess, viewing recent history, will be the NES title fetching $10 and they will be the exact same things as before. They did it with the E-reader, then the GBA titles, and I don't see them changing for this. The thing I like about Live and the Arcade is that it's cheap, Live compatible, and the Achievements. My expectations are Donkey Kong with only 3 levels, "staying true to the NES version." I would love to see Achievements similar to Live, but rewarding you Trophies, ala Smash Brothers. Wouldn't that be awesome!!

[trip1eX]

Ya the reason the 360 games are worth 5 or 10 bucks is because they either/or/and the following

1) Updated Graphics
2) Run in Hi-Def
3) Online Multiplayer
4) Online Leaderboards
5) Achievements

All of the games support most of those things. If they were plain vanilla ports...I'd call rip off.

Well good points except for the rip-off part. YOu have to compare apples to apples. MS is charging you $5-10 for ATari 2600 era games. Joust and Robotron for instance. They better enhance the experience at that price.

Even NES games are a step above those in terms of depth and that alone would justify a higher price imo.

But from what I just read, $2.99 for NES games and $19.99 for N64 games are pricepoints Nintendo floated around in the survey to gauge customer interest.

I can only hope they add online multiplayer to the old Nintendo titles along wtih scoreboards and voice support amongst friends. Not to mention support for the new functionality in the Revolution controller. Cause yes these (not the last one of course) 360 features are sweet.

[see colon]

One thing that I am very dissapointed in Nintendo is the way they handle their catalog. My guess, viewing recent history, will be the NES title fetching $10 and they will be the exact same things as before. They did it with the E-reader, then the GBA titles, and I don't see them changing for this.
packs of e-reader cards were MSRP $4.99. the GBA ports were more because carts are expensive. also, there were a handfull of free e-reader games given out at retail stores and in nintendo power.

my hope is that nintendo also does some pack-ins and promos. buy metroid prime 3 and get super metroid, for example.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

They definitely will not be charging $20 for an NES title like they did on the GBA re-releases. The only reasons those cost so much is because the carts themselves were expensive to produce. It will cost them next to nothing to deliver the games to the Revolution, so I'd expect them to be much cheaper. The only mistake with the GBA carts was that they only included one game per catridge. It would have been a much better deal if each cart came with three games.