Bill Gates on Halo 3, HD-DVD [Archive]

bapenguin

01-10-2006, 04:37 AM

Engadget (http://www.engadget.com) had an interview up (http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/09/the-engadget-interview-bill-gates-again/) with Bill Gates from CES 2006. Among things discussed are Microsoft's new multimedia store, Poker available via XBox Live, Halo 3 and the recent HD-DVD announcement. (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8517&highlight=hd-dvd)

Are we going to see Halo 3 launch around the time of the launch of the PS3?

No, I have to make sure that any speculation I did about that is -- it's up to the team when they want to ship that, and they're going to take their time to make that a super great product. So even we don't know when that will come out. That's one of many games that are just phenomenal that are in the works, but it's up to the artists to do it when they feel good about it.
Very interesting. I find it funny that Bungie still has yet to confirm they are working on Halo 3. Having Poker on Live arcade is going to be huge. It'd be interesting to see if they let people win Microsoft points in tournaments and such.

There was a worry some statement from Mr. Gates:

There's no fragmentation here. The developers are creating games that run on the DVD-9 format that's in every Xbox, and whatever we do with the drive, they'll all be upwards compatible with that. So that's how the games are written and it's a very clear message that lets game developers get huge volumes and payback for the big investments that they make
Sounds like fragmentation is coming to me.

Borys

01-10-2006, 04:52 AM

Man, Halo 3 will be big. I hate Halo but all this excitement is affecting even me. Need some trailers! :)

Chandler

01-10-2006, 05:08 AM

I'm not sure how thats fragmentation. He said upwards compatible to the hddvd drive.

Vjornaxx

01-10-2006, 05:40 AM

Reading the headline made me think that they were putting Halo 3 on HD-DVD. Further reading cleared that confusion up for me. However, I think that that would really help push the HD-DVD.

Doctor Setebos

01-10-2006, 06:00 AM

Reading the headline made me think that they were putting Halo 3 on HD-DVD. Further reading cleared that confusion up for me. However, I think that that would really help push the HD-DVD.
Your killer app on your killer format? Yep, that sounds like money to me. :D

Kelegacy

01-10-2006, 06:06 AM

Man, Halo 3 will be big. I hate Halo but all this excitement is affecting even me. Need some trailers! :)
I'm apparently one of the few that was never really big on Halo. Fun game, but I didn't find myself changed by it's hidden Bungie nanotech excitement technology. Halo 2, maybe I need to play it again. But I've also learned to not be excited much by games on the horizon; when they get here maybe I'll be a bit more antsy, but the only game I can really say I'm looking forward to right now is Grandia III, hoping it isn't a bomb--and that's only because it's a month or so off. Oblivion looks awesome, too, but I fear the time-sink I'll be putting into that bitch. Plus, I'll need to buy a 360 or upgrade my PC, neither I am too keen on doing.

kokyunage

01-10-2006, 06:41 AM

So, what makes people think this accessory will be successful when virtually every prior addon accessories failed?

Morratut

01-10-2006, 07:01 AM

I'm not going to buy and next gen DVD drive for my 360 until I know which format is going to win.

I don't think MS would dare bring out a enhanced version of Halo 3 on HD-DVD. That would be suicide.

I love Xbox, Xbox360, Live and the Halo franchise. I would be pissed however if they did that. You buy a console so you don't have to worry about upgrading to get the best experience.

Schnoogs

01-10-2006, 07:03 AM

So, what makes people think this accessory will be successful when virtually every prior addon accessories failed?

Because this is Evil Avatar not Logical Avatar.

Nite_Moogle

01-10-2006, 07:04 AM

I'm pretty impressed that he's already looking past HD-DVD to downloadable content. That may be why we're not seeing more clout from the big M in this format war. I would suspect they are going to allow for dual releases, not like unlike what we've been seeing for years on the PC. Want your game in CD or DVD format? Want your game in DVD-9 or HD-DVD? Either way the game HAS to run only in memory, the only real advantages you're going to see for games from HD-DVD are multi-disc games on one disc and faster loading times due to the throughput.

bapenguin

01-10-2006, 07:04 AM

So, what makes people think this accessory will be successful when virtually every prior addon accessories failed?

I don't know anyone that has said this WILL be successful. In fact, they'll be lucky to sell these to 5% of the 360 population.

Schnoogs

01-10-2006, 07:07 AM

I'm not going to buy and next gen DVD drive for my 360 until I know which format is going to win.

To me that's like saying "I'm not going to buy an XBox or a PS2 til one of the companies wins"

These companies are in it for the long haul. Do you really think Sony or MS is going to concede their format?!?!? Microsoft is fully behing HDDVD. Sony is obviously fully behind their format Blu-Ray.

This is gonna go on for YEARS!!! Just like with the consoles neither side is gonna just throw in the towel.

The next version of Windows is supposed to have features built around HDDVD features...again do you think MS is just gonna concede??

In 5 years we will still have these 2 formats and I guess you will be enjoying crappy DVDs.

Demo_Boy

01-10-2006, 07:08 AM

Its not a question of making sure disks that can be read on the internal drive can also be read by the HD-DVD drive. Its a question of what if any exclusive content for the 360 will be developped for the HD-DVD drive, and how will users without the drive be able to access it.

If there is no access to 360 HD-DVD "exclusive" content, then you have fragmentation. If there is no custom content, then the drive is a glorified movie player that relies on your 360 never breaking down, which may be worth it depending on price, but I doubt it.
Gates deliberately sidestepped the question of platform fragmentation by choosing to look at the wrong side of the question. Pure spin.

DanAmerson

01-10-2006, 07:37 AM

I'm not sure why everyone thinks the HD-DVD add-on will fail. Mind you, I know nothing about consumer HD-DVD players, but let's assume for a moment that you need several components in an HD-DVD movie player, the actual drive to read the data, some chip to decompress the data into a TV output format and some hardware to trace out the signal to the TV.

Now, if MS makes an HD-DVD add-on that works with 360, what pieces does it need? It only needs to be a drive and a USB cable. The 360 should have more than enough power to stream process and decompress and HD-DVD. (Note that I have no idea how much math is needed to process an HD-DVD, but it is a stream process which is what the in-order chips in 360 are good at.) The 360 also has the TV output hardware already in place. So, the HD-DVD add-on to 360 will be a much cheaper and hence more attractive option for movie playback.

If given the option as a consumer to buy a $400 standalone player or a $150 Xbox 360 add-on, I see about $250 worth of incentive in my hypothetical numbers to buy the add-on.

As for games, we've repeatedly been told by MS to count on DVD-9 as the format. I haven't heard any word one way or the other from them on the matter since the HD-DVD announcement, but there's a 360 conference in Feb. so we'll see.

dba

Dirty Harry

01-10-2006, 07:37 AM

The best grandia kelegacy was the ps1 port.

Nite_Moogle

01-10-2006, 07:39 AM

DanAmerson

01-10-2006, 07:43 AM

Post more, please.

Er, more about what? I've pretty much expended my knowledge on HD-DVD in that one post. :)

dba

Nite_Moogle

01-10-2006, 07:44 AM

About whatever you know about. :) Information from the "inside" is something that I love because it is much more accurate than speculation from joe gamer like me.

MrMeatshake

01-10-2006, 07:54 AM

Man, Halo 3 will be big. I hate Halo but all this excitement is affecting even me. Need some trailers! :)

tho i'm a fan, i don't think there'll be any conversion of haters with number 3. if u don't like the formula, i very much doubt they'll change it much - i wouldn't get excited if i were u. being me, however, and loving the halo franchise.....

W00T Z0MG DUD3Z 3Y3 1Z Z00 ST0|<3D!!!11!1!one!one!1one

Evil_SPanKY

01-10-2006, 07:58 AM

Because this is Evil Avatar not Logical Avatar.

LOL, QOTD!

Roc Ingersol

01-10-2006, 08:03 AM

I doubt they'll switch drives on the seXbox.

It's likely just counter-FUD as a response to the blu-ray nonsense coming from Sony's marketing machine.

bone_matrix

01-10-2006, 08:07 AM

Short version

dba

Post more, please.

Hey Dan, looks like you have an admirer. :D

Also a pretty good post that made sense to me. If HD-DVD does pretty well in the market, and I can get an add-on for a system that I already own for cheap, why not? It won't wear the system out (well, not the DVD drive) and it won't break my wallet. It will be like a non-portable PSP except it plays GOOD games. Ba-Zing!! I kid. :D

Morratut

01-10-2006, 08:15 AM

To me that's like saying "I'm not going to buy an XBox or a PS2 til one of the companies wins"

These companies are in it for the long haul. Do you really think Sony or MS is going to concede their format?!?!? Microsoft is fully behing HDDVD. Sony is obviously fully behind their format Blu-Ray.

This is gonna go on for YEARS!!! Just like with the consoles neither side is gonna just throw in the towel.

The next version of Windows is supposed to have features built around HDDVD features...again do you think MS is just gonna concede??

In 5 years we will still have these 2 formats and I guess you will be enjoying crappy DVDs.

Ahhhh Assassin my good friend. No I don't think anyone will just concede. However once both of them are released and out for a while we will all be in a better position to judge how its going.

Oh and you guess wrong :)

Reanimated

01-10-2006, 08:33 AM

In 5 years we will still have these 2 formats and I guess you will be enjoying crappy DVDs.

Crappy?

The following is an image from CES. The two displays are showing content from different movie players. One of the players is a Blu Ray Drive, and the other is coming from an upscaling DVD player. Tell me which is which.

http://home.comcast.net/~freedomcalls/blurayvsdvd.jpg

I have another picture that reveals the answer, but let's have fun with the cropped one for the moment.

Kelegacy

01-10-2006, 08:37 AM

The best grandia kelegacy was the ps1 port.
Oh, I know. I never parted with my PS1 copy, it's in mint condition and I still take it out and fondle it on occasion.

Murmillo

01-10-2006, 08:37 AM

I'll say the right one is the BlueRay

Nite_Moogle

01-10-2006, 08:41 AM

I'll say the one on the left is Blu-Ray due to the wider range of lighting (looks like HDR).

MrMeatshake

01-10-2006, 09:00 AM

Crappy? -snip- Tell me which is which.

i go... left = blu-ray FTW!

btw, comparing something which has been upscaled on a photo which is then rather smaller res again seems a bit silly, how could u possibly tell the difference?

but i'm enjoying the game nontheless. which is it!?

Dracula-X

01-10-2006, 09:07 AM

Left looks like it has a better range and more detail, I'd have to go with left for BR.

bean19

01-10-2006, 09:47 AM

Either way the game HAS to run only in memory, the only real advantages you're going to see for games from HD-DVD are multi-disc games on one disc and faster loading times due to the throughput.

Actually, the BR and the HDDVD have lower data transfer rates than modern DVDs. That's why both companies will make GAMES on DVDs and not the new formats.

Schnoogs

01-10-2006, 09:56 AM

Crappy?

The following is an image from CES. The two displays are showing content from different movie players. One of the players is a Blu Ray Drive, and the other is coming from an upscaling DVD player. Tell me which is which.

http://home.comcast.net/~freedomcalls/blurayvsdvd.jpg

I have another picture that reveals the answer, but let's have fun with the cropped one for the moment.

Anyone who thinks a picture taken of 2 displays can somehow indicate what they would look like in person is probably not smart enough to appreciatte the gains of higher resolution formats.

Wow...I'll go take a pick of my HDTV next to my old CRT from far away and I bet you wont notice much of a difference...therefore using your brilliant logic there must be no gain.

I have a DLP projector and I've played upscaled DVDs and true 720p HD content and the difference is significant. Upscaling will only get you so far. check out the T2 720p DVD for proof.

Rolls eyes

Schnoogs

01-10-2006, 09:58 AM

i go... left = blu-ray FTW!

btw, comparing something which has been upscaled on a photo which is then rather smaller res again seems a bit silly, how could u possibly tell the difference?

but i'm enjoying the game nontheless. which is it!?

Finally a sensible poster. Cracks me up when people get new displays and then post picturs taken of them like it somehow shows a perfect recreation of the quality.

Silly but you would be amazed at how many people snap photos of DLP front projectors.

TheKeck

01-10-2006, 10:07 AM

I'm guessing Blueray on the left.

TheKeck

01-10-2006, 10:09 AM

Finally a sensible poster. Cracks me up when people get new displays and then post picturs taken of them like it somehow shows a perfect recreation of the quality.

Silly but you would be amazed at how many people snap photos of DLP front projectors.

I love those commercials where they try to show you how great some HDTV looks. As if we're not still just looking at our TV and whatever quality it can produce.

Nite_Moogle

01-10-2006, 10:13 AM

Actually, the BR and the HDDVD have lower data transfer rates than modern DVDs. That's why both companies will make GAMES on DVDs and not the new formats.
Are you sure? I thought I had read somewhere that HD-DVD was somewhere around four or five times as fast with its throughput than DVD-9.

Though obviously if this is going to get crammed through a USB 2.0 connection it's moot anyway.

Montolio

01-10-2006, 10:20 AM

I love the fact that Bungie has enough stroke within Microsoft to not only get Bill Gates to all but retract his Halo 3 / PS3 statement but now they have him singing their tune to world domination hahaha...err wait, he was already doing that long before they came along. I can't wait to see what their new, sneaky "arbiter moment" is in part 3 and any improvements they can make to that awesome matchmaking party system.

I have no idea how I feel about the HD-DVD support just yet. There is so much I've got to see and read about it first, with a good deal of that information coming from the people gathered here at the Evil Avatar mothership heh. God, if they put unique content on something like that for Halo 3 that would really screw with me. I bought the mappack so I don't think I'd be able to resist. 2006 will be a kickass year for the 360.

Yeah I'm pumped :-)

SuperKRad

01-10-2006, 11:27 AM

Left looks like it has a better range and more detail, I'd have to go with left for BR.

I thought the two formats are STORAGE MEDIUMS. And they're digital. How could one have better range and more detail? All they do is hold stuff. Its like saying a jpg stored on a floppy disk doesnt look as good as the same jpg stored on a CDR. Am I wrong?

I think the answer is that it doesnt matter, the TVs are calibrated differently. Am I right?

Schnoogs

01-10-2006, 11:30 AM

I thought the two formats are STORAGE MEDIUMS. And they're digital. How could one have better range and more detail? All they do is hold stuff. Its like saying a jpg stored on a floppy disk doesnt look as good as the same jpg stored on a CDR. Am I wrong?

I think the answer is that it doesnt matter, the TVs are calibrated differently. Am I right?

Look at it this way...compression schemes can support different bitrates. So yes they are both digital but if one holds twice the data it can show the same 2 hour movie with less compression.

CD movies look horrible next to DVDs yet they are both digital. Why? Because DVD's can hold more and therefore support compression schemes that offer higher bitrates, etc.

Obviously there's a bit more to it but extra storage allows for less compression which is a good thing!

Nite_Moogle

01-10-2006, 11:34 AM

I thought the two formats are STORAGE MEDIUMS. And they're digital. How could one have better range and more detail? All they do is hold stuff. Its like saying a jpg stored on a floppy disk doesnt look as good as the same jpg stored on a CDR. Am I wrong?
The higher capacity of Blu-Ray/HD-DVD allows them to have a much higher level of quality than normal DVDs. Think about the difference between a full-screen screenshot at 640x480 versus 1600x1200 and you start to get the idea of how the new formats bring a much higher level of quality to media.

Zanzibar

01-10-2006, 12:39 PM

Are you sure? I thought I had read somewhere that HD-DVD was somewhere around four or five times as fast with its throughput than DVD-9.

Though obviously if this is going to get crammed through a USB 2.0 connection it's moot anyway.

What do you mean? USB 2.0 is 480mbps. That is god-damned fast. 1x HD-DVD is about 35mbps.

Zeal

01-10-2006, 12:47 PM

I'll tell you what happened.

Bungie just got fucking owned.

Schnoogs

01-10-2006, 01:15 PM

What do you mean? USB 2.0 is 480mbps. That is god-damned fast. 1x HD-DVD is about 35mbps.

I believe you're correct...one would think that USB 2.0 is plenty big enough for an HD feed...or two...or three!

Murmillo

01-10-2006, 02:17 PM

What do you mean? USB 2.0 is 480mbps. That is god-damned fast. 1x HD-DVD is about 35mbps.
This is why I stopped trying to debate with people, who are trying to say, HD-DVD with USB 2.0 is a-ok with movies, but won't work for 5.1 audio.

vallor

01-10-2006, 03:32 PM

So, what makes people think this accessory will be successful when virtually every prior addon accessories failed?

The DVD functionality of the 360 is very robust compared to my Sony and Toshiba standalone DVDs (all normal functions but also more levels of fast forward and zoom, etc).

If they do the same with the HD-DVD drive I'll be very tempted, especially if the price is less than getting a regular standalone HD-DVD player.

Phades

01-10-2006, 03:47 PM

The DVD functionality of the 360 is very robust compared to my Sony and Toshiba standalone DVDs (all normal functions but also more levels of fast forward and zoom, etc).

If they do the same with the HD-DVD drive I'll be very tempted, especially if the price is less than getting a regular standalone HD-DVD player.

I agree with you there. I hate the fast forward/rewind function of 90% of the DVD players out there.

Achilles

01-10-2006, 05:47 PM

It’s not fragmentation (the HD-DVD thing) because they’re not going to ship any games in that format. If they release a system with an HD-DVD drive in there instead of a regular DVD drive the only difference is that people will be able to play HD-DVD movies and whatever other non-game uses it may have (reading pictures and music from it, etc.). Since they're not trying to sell you HD-DVD movies it doesn't really matter to them how many of their systems have the drive and how many don't.I'll tell you what happened.
Bungie just got fucking owned.Not sure where that's coming from. Doesn't this article indicate that they are being allowed to do what they want to complete their game?

PimpMasterToTheMax

01-10-2006, 06:49 PM

Not sure where that's coming from. Doesn't this article indicate that they are being allowed to do what they want to complete their game?
I think he simply meant that Microsoft actually owns Bungie.

Achilles

01-10-2006, 07:13 PM

I think he simply meant that Microsoft actually owns Bungie.If this is the case, he's a little behind the times on that news. Not really front page there.

TKO

01-11-2006, 04:05 AM

If this is the case, he's a little behind the times on that news. Not really front page there.
Oh, I thought Zeal had just woken up again. That's the trouble with sleeping at the PC: Wake up, post something nonsensical, go to sleep again.. So long as the chap provides us with some amusement. :)