Molestation Case Involves XBox Live

[bapenguin]

According to The Mercury News (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/northern_california/13549407.htm) a 26 year old man was recently arrested for allegedly molesting a 13 year old boy that he met via XBox Live.

Detectives said Watts contacted the boy in October or November through the Xbox Live community, where players can battle online and speak to each other using headsets.

Their conversations progressed to sending e-mails and Web cam videos, with Watts allegedly sending the boy obscene video clips of himself, authorities said.

The teen eventually gave Watts his home address and telephone number and they met in a Santa Rosa park in November where the alleged physical abuse occurred.
Update: Microsoft has officially responded to this incident.

We are just learning about this alleged incident and clearly this is something we are very concerned about. Safety and security, and specifically child online safety, are a top priority for Microsoft, and we insure that Xbox Live is equipped with the tools that allow parents to monitor the activities of their children during online game play, including disabling voice communications. The Xbox Live space is regulated by our Terms of Use and Code of Conduct which prohibit all illegal activities. We work closely with law enforcement around the world on child safety issues on the Internet and will provide any and all help to the authorities investigating this case.
That's just sickening. I mean, this kind of thing occurs in all types of Internet communication, but I think this is the first I've heard of it relating directly to gaming.
Thanks Slashdot (http://games.slashdot.com).

[GrinR]

OMG communication = DA DEBIL!

[Sloth]

So even after the guy sent obscene videos of himself to the boy, the boy still gave him his address? WTF

[Oddmaker]

yeah Sloth thats what i dont get.

[Meusli]

Where there are children there are bound to be perverts, sad fact of life. While Im not saying this is common there were fears this would happen when xbox live first emerged if I remember correctly.

[H.Bogard]

The boy was a 57 year old midget = only explanation

[Zanzibar]

So even after the guy sent obscene videos of himself to the boy, the boy still gave him his address? WTF

Not that I'm condoning this IN THE SLIGHTEST, but the term 'molestation' does not necessarily mean that it wasn't consensual. Nothing in the article claims that the kid didn't want to be there. Any time an adult has any type of sexual activity with a minor, it's called 'molestation.'

[Shodan2020]

What's wrong with this kid? If someone would have sent me obscene videos and pictures of themselves to me I would not have invited them to come play with me.

[Cool AN]

So even after the guy sent obscene videos of himself to the boy, the boy still gave him his address? WTF

That seems strange to me to. Never the less this is a serious thing, however where there is communication, there is bound to people that misuse it for horrible things.

[Salesmunn]

Only a matter of time until we hear more of these.

[fitbabits]

What some people seem to be missing here is that the boy was 13 years old – 13. The alleged molester is at fault here. You can hardly expect a 13 year old to act in an adult manner when confronted with something so out of the norm. Sure, he should have contacted the authorities or his parents/guardians when he received the obscene material, but what would you have done at age 13 when confronted with something of this nature? He was most likely terrified to let anyone know what was going on and the perpetrator could have lured him by telling him that he would be off the hook if he agreed to meet in person.

[AntB]

Due to Omerican law, if your under 18 and have sex with someone who'se over 18, it's called molestation and the adult is going to jail. Consent or not.

[EGO]

Games are evil, um'kay?
Xbox is evil, um'kay?
Live is super evil, um'kay?

BUT THAT KID IS FRICKEN STUPID!

I just hope that Thompson chode doesn't latch onto this one.

[SirKnightXCX]

Due to Omerican law, if your under 18 and have sex with someone who'se over 18, it's called molestation and the adult is going to jail. Consent or not.
The age of consent is a state law, so it's not the same in every state. Additionally there are many exceptions. For example, in most states if a person is under 18 he or she can still have sex if the partner is within a certain age difference usually about 4 or 5 years.

[Bone]

Look, kids are impressionable and often just discovering their sexuality at age 13. They are also craving acceptance and attention, and an older person seems so experienced and intelligent, even if they aren't, just because of their age.
This is why we have statutory rape laws- just because a kid thinks they want to have sex with someone doesn't mean they understand the ramifications or can deal with them. Calling the kid stupid really undermines the fact that he's still a victim.

[Morratut]

God I love EvAv. After reading the headline I was very angry. I was just going to write 'BURN THE FUCKER....SLOWLY'.

After the first 7 or so posts by the EvAv community I was chuckling.

Not about the story of course, just the comments.

[GrinR]

FYI Age of Consent lookup chart (http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm)

In any case, this is the kind of sensationalist claptrap that gets simple-minded people up in arms. You know, like GTA does to PTA knitting circles.

[DeadPixel]

Isn't that what Live voice masknig is for? So everyone can sound like a 12 year old.

[jacktion]

There's nothing wrong with a gay 13 year old having urges and shit. It is the adult's responsibility to be an adult and not take advantage of a little kid's immaturity.

If any senators freak out and overreact than that will suck. Sickos molest people all the time. It is (unfortunately) reality that this happens. If kids aren't safe in church than why do we expect them to be safe on Xbox Live?

[agentgray]

So even after the guy sent obscene videos of himself to the boy, the boy still gave him his address? WTF
EXACTLY what I thought.

[agentgray]

What some people seem to be missing here is that the boy was 13 years old – 13. The alleged molester is at fault here. You can hardly expect a 13 year old to act in an adult manner when confronted with something so out of the norm. Sure, he should have contacted the authorities or his parents/guardians when he received the obscene material, but what would you have done at age 13 when confronted with something of this nature? He was most likely terrified to let anyone know what was going on and the perpetrator could have lured him by telling him that he would be off the hook if he agreed to meet in person.
I can understand that. When I was 13 and a guy showed his peeps to me, he would have got in big trouble. I had more faith in my parents ability to kick his butt (legally, physically, etc.) in one way or another.

I would have freaked and told somebody...NOT HIM.

[Heretic Machine]

What some people seem to be missing here is that the boy was 13 years old – 13. The alleged molester is at fault here. You can hardly expect a 13 year old to act in an adult manner when confronted with something so out of the norm. Sure, he should have contacted the authorities or his parents/guardians when he received the obscene material, but what would you have done at age 13 when confronted with something of this nature? He was most likely terrified to let anyone know what was going on and the perpetrator could have lured him by telling him that he would be off the hook if he agreed to meet in person.

Oh whatever. Teenagers may not have the most self control, but to pretend that they are helpless is just bullshit. I was looking at porn at 13, activley seeking it out. Having cyber sex, and trying my damnest to have the real kind too. All of my peers were doing the same shit. This kid was horny, this guy was horny, they hooked up.

I'm not condoning the behavior of the 26 year old. But to pretend like the kid was a victim? Whatever.

[Nite_Moogle]

This is why parental involvement is such an important thing.

[Cubfan]

This is why I'm waiting for the PS3.

[Mystery Writer X]

I just wish this kid's parents were paying better attention to the way he was spending his time. This kid has e-mail, spends time online, and is on Xbox Live and his parents aren't policing that? Nice.

[fitbabits]

Oh whatever. Teenagers may not have the most self control, but to pretend that they are helpless is just bullshit. I was looking at porn at 13, activley seeking it out. Having cyber sex, and trying my damnest to have the real kind too. All of my peers were doing the same shit. This kid was horny, this guy was horny, they hooked up.

I'm not condoning the behavior of the 26 year old. But to pretend like the kid was a victim? Whatever.
The kid WAS the victim, though. You may have been a little horn dog when you were younger, but not all teenagers are. Are you really saying that it's okay because both parties involved were horny (This kid was horny, this guy was horny, they hooked up.)?

[bean19]

This is why I'm waiting for the PS3.

lol.

Good one.

[Southpaw]

So even after the guy sent obscene videos of himself to the boy, the boy still gave him his address? WTF

Can anyone confirm it was "obscene videos of himself"? The most info I could find was this:

"Police said the Xbox conversations between Watts and the boy began in October or November and included sexual content and progressed to e-mails, instant messages and an exchange of Web cam video of sex acts."

From the local paper that the AP linked (http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060104/NEWS/601040328/1033/NEWS01)

I'm not sure if "Web cam videos" means of himself. If this kid got "regular" porn he may have been baited into getting more by meeting with this guy. I guess my point is that the kid may or may not have been gay, but either way he was definately taken advantage of.

[Heretic Machine]

In any case, I was never stupid enough to go for something like this unknowingly. The first time someone said, "Strangers are bad and can do bad things to you" I pretty much had that locked in and knew not to do shit like this. At 13, I would of known better than to go meet some guy for porn. Especially considering that the kid had the INTERNET. You know, the wonderful world of porn?

This kid just sounds exceptionally stupid. Yes, the guy is a criminal, but that doesn't make the kid a victim. Except maybe of his own hormones/stupidity.

[EternalGamer]

The kid WAS the victim, though. You may have been a little horn dog when you were younger, but not all teenagers are. Are you really saying that it's okay because both parties involved were horny (This kid was horny, this guy was horny, they hooked up.)?


Actually, I completely agree with Perigon on this one. We try to always make the minor the "victim" in these situitions but biology tells me otherwise.

I am certainly not condoning pedophilia. In our current culural climate any type of sexual activity that occurs outside of the "norm" heterosexual, monogamous, same race, same age relationship is bound to create feelings of abnormality and these feelings are ones that a minors in our society are not mature enough to deal with psychologically. But these problems exist because of our current cultural context. You certainly wouldn't have seen a young boy in ancient Greece go crying to the authorities about being fucked up for life because of pederasty because, at that time, it wasn't an uncommon practice. My point is that people feel fucked up about this sort of thing because our society teaches them it something they should feel fucked up about.

There is certainly bound to be a messed up power dynamic in such relationships (consensual or not). However, the distinction does seem somewhat arbitrary to me. There are plenty of people in relationships with others their own age that have an unbalanced up power dynamic. The 16 year old captain of the football team who takes advantage of the freshman cheerleader that idolizes him is doing the same thing. Hell, Bill Clinton is doing the same thing when he has sex with Monica Lewinsky who idolizes him. In fact, I would say that the majority of the sexual relationships that exist between people probably have some type of unbalanced power dynamic at work where one partyis more vunerable and the other is more taking advantage of that situition.

I certainly understand that there are serious problems with determing whether or not certain minors have enough autonomy to indicate consensuality. And I understand that because of this problem, we have laws that enforce a boundary in order to avoid dealing with it altogether. Nevertheless, the morality of the situition is not always as cut and dry as the legality of it, in my opinion.

Dan

PS. Just incase some would like to respond to my argument with an attack ad hominem, let me assure you I have absolutely no sexual attraction to children of any sort. The idea has as much apppeal to me as having sex with an ostrich.

[Steele Johnson]

It sounds like the kid was willing to participate after seeing the videos of the other guy. But it was really stupid of the older guy to target someone that's 13. You're just asking for trouble no matter what the situations is.

[EternalGamer]

It sounds like the kid was willing to participate after seeing the videos of the other guy. But it was really stupid of the older guy to target someone that's 13. You're just asking for trouble no matter what the situations is.


Agreed.

Dan

[fitbabits]

Actually, I completely agree with Perigon on this one. We try to always make the minor the "victim" in these situitions but biology tells me otherwise.

I am certainly not condoning pedophilia. In our current culural climate any type of sexual activity that occurs outside of the "norm" heterosexual, monogamous, same race, same age relationship is bound to create feelings of abnormality and these feelings are ones that a minors in our society are not mature enough to deal with psychologically. There is also certainly bound to be a fucked up power dynamic in such relationships (consensual or not). However, the distinction does seem somewhat arbitrary to me. There are plenty of people in relationships with others their own age that have a fucked up power dynamic. The 16 year old captain of the football team who takes advantage of the freshman cheerleader that idolizes him is doing the same thing. Hell, Bill Clinton is doing the same thing when he has sex with Monica Lewinsky. Infact, I would say that the majority of the sexual relationships that exist between people probably have some type of unbalanced power dynamic at work.

I certainly understand that there are serious problems with determing whether or not certain minors have enough autonomy to indicate consensuality. And I understand that because of this problem, we have laws that enforce a boundary in order to avoid dealing with it altogether. Nevertheless, the morality of the situition is not always as cut and dry as the legality of it, in my opinion.

Dan
But, the laws are not guidelines or suggestions - they are laws. Even if the kid was aware of what was going on and was a willing participant, the older man took advantage of the situation. Ask yourself how you would feel if it was your kid or the kid of someone you knew. Would you feel the same way even if you suspected that the kid you knew was a willing participant? If there's any truth in what was reported then the fact remains that the older man took advantage of the kid, and that is breaking the law. Even Judas Priest know that! :)

Oh, and Bill Clinton did not have sexual relationships with Monica. That was all a Republican smear campaign. :rolleyes:

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

I was thirteen once. Would I ever meet any stranger I met online at that age? No. Even now I would be hesitant to. This kid is just a fucking dumbass, end of story.

[Bone]

Eternalgamer and Perigon both ignore the fact that a 13 year old's brain is not developed enough to understand his sexual feelings, at least by our current societal standards. If they want to call him stupid, I feel comfortable calling them more stupid than a 13 year old.

[Sion]

Girl--->Man=Sick
Boy-->Man=Sick
Boy-->Hot woman= OMFG Why didnt that happen to me when I was a kid!?!?

[EternalGamer]

Fitbabits, I agree with you. But that is where I am making a distinction between morality and legality. On the second, the issue is quite cut and dry, but on the first, I am not sure either way, I would have to know more about the specific situition.

As for Bone's comment, I never called the kid stupid. I know a lot of very intelligent people that have made equally dumb decisions where sex is concerned (see the Bill Clinton comment above for one famous example). But I have a brother that is now 16 and I remember not too long ago when he was this kids age. I don't think I'm that out of touch with the intelligence of an average 13 year old. I would say most of them are not so stupid as to not know what they want. You may say they want things that are not healthy for them, but uh.. again I know a lot of adults that is true of also. There is just no easy universal rule which can be used to judge a proper age for consensuality, in my opinion. Certainly we have laws in place which draw the boundaries very conservatively for the sake of caution. But that does not mean these boundaries are not somewhat arbitrary in a moral sense.

Dan

[EternalGamer]

Girl--->Man=Sick
Boy-->Man=Sick
Boy-->Hot woman= OMFG Why didnt that happen to me when I was a kid!?!?


All humor aside, Sion's statement brings out the truth of a sexist double standard that is applied. Men are thought to be automatically more "strong" and "predatory" so anytime the adult is male, it automatically viewed as such. However, how many times have we seen TV shows, films, etc that show a young high school boy having an affair with a teacher or another attractive older woman where the reaction is often "what a lucky son of a bitch"?

It is this same double standard that led to highly discriminatory laws in England. Up until a few years ago (and I believe this has changed but someone correct me if I am wrong) the age of consent for a minor engaged in hetrosexual sex was 16 while the age of consent for homosexual sex was 18. Complete and total bullshit perpetuated by these same stereotypes.

Dan

[Crabby]

The kid gave him the personal information after viewing the obscene media? So...he wanted this, right?

Please don't feed this thread lines like "oh man, he was only 13, how could he have known anything ? Please don't underestimate the potential of teenagers for comprehension, I guarantee they all comprehend a lot.

[GrinR]

This thread is a good example of what happens when you dissolve a tradition. In this case, the coming-of-age tradition in the USA. I don't know about other places, but here we've watched the blurring of the line between boy and man (and girl and woman) for at least 50 years. This is where it's gotten us - lost and confused about who is responsible and who is in control.

13 year old (teenager) kills someone - might be tried as an adult.
13 year old has sex with a child - might be tried as an adult / sex offender tag for life
17 year old has sex with 14/15 - (in CA, AFAIK) legal.
19 year old has sex with 17 - statutory rape & sex offender tag for life
14/16 is old enough to drive (and possibly drive OVER someone) - but not adult enough to make decisions about their own sex life.
14/16 can get drivers license... meaning can get legal gun as well?

And so on. The notion of child ---> adult is blurred to the point where we're haggling over the details depending on what we want from the deal. ...and it's only going to get worse.

[Gorilla800lbs]

Strange. When I play Halo2 on Xbox live, it is usually the 13-y-o themselves who rape me!

[endrom]

when i played halo 2, (back before any downloads, i haven't played since) kids had digusting mouths and so did the adults, the people on Xboxlive do deserve a little soap in the mouth, and this could lead to a system. which i think would be great.
"jsut get me my damn choclate milk!!!"

[EternalGamer]

when i played halo 2, (back before any downloads, i haven't played since) kids had digusting mouths and so did the adults, the people on Xboxlive do deserve a little soap in the mouth, and this could lead to a system. which i think would be great.
"jsut get me my damn choclate milk!!!"


Uh... okay.


Dan

[Crabby]

when i played halo 2, (back before any downloads, i haven't played since) kids had digusting mouths and so did the adults, the people on Xboxlive do deserve a little soap in the mouth, and this could lead to a system. which i think would be great.
"jsut get me my damn choclate milk!!!"


God no, don't remind me of that horrid video.

[Zanzibar]

I think we're having parallel conversations here. Originally, the question was 'why did the kid go meet the adult after the adult sent pornos?' The assumption with that question is that the kid was COMPLETELY an unwilling participant, and wasn't interested in the adult's advances in any way. I'm saying that nothing in the story supports that assumption. I am ONLY addressing that question; not the legality of the contact.

[Steele Johnson]

I was thirteen once. Would I ever meet any stranger I met online at that age? No. Even now I would be hesitant to. This kid is just a fucking dumbass, end of story.

What if you knew for a fact that the person was a girl and she wanted to meet you? Would you still say to yourself "screw that, she might be a freak"? Or what if she sent you a few videos of herself and she was attractive? Would you still be hesitant?

[Kelegacy]

This thread is a good example of what happens when you dissolve a tradition. In this case, the coming-of-age tradition in the USA. I don't know about other places, but here we've watched the blurring of the line between boy and man (and girl and woman) for at least 50 years. This is where it's gotten us - lost and confused about who is responsible and who is in control.

13 year old (teenager) kills someone - might be tried as an adult.
13 year old has sex with a child - might be tried as an adult / sex offender tag for life
17 year old has sex with 14/15 - (in CA, AFAIK) legal.
19 year old has sex with 17 - statutory rape & sex offender tag for life
14/16 is old enough to drive (and possibly drive OVER someone) - but not adult enough to make decisions about their own sex life.
14/16 can get drivers license... meaning can get legal gun as well?

And so on. The notion of child ---> adult is blurred to the point where we're haggling over the details depending on what we want from the deal. ...and it's only going to get worse.

Good points. Adult is only a label that we feel like applying when it suits us. It's ridiculously irrational.

And 16 is consentable age here in Maine. Grrrrreat!

[shpanky]

FYI Age of Consent lookup chart (http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm)

In any case, this is the kind of sensationalist claptrap that gets simple-minded people up in arms. You know, like GTA does to PTA knitting circles.

Looks like it's perfectly legal in New Mexico...

[shpanky]

Uh... okay.


Dan

What...you got a problem with chocolate milk? Damn communist...

[Zurik]

"Playstation 3, with our crappy online system, there's no way your kid will hook up with a molester!"

[Kelegacy]

What...you got a problem with chocolate milk? Damn communist...
Don't bad mouth the communists! We are everywhere.

[rein]

Girl--->Man=Sick
Boy-->Man=Sick
Boy-->Hot woman= OMFG Why didnt that happen to me when I was a kid!?!?

True if you are talking about the mentality of most teenage boys. Not true if you are talking about the law. Those women went to jail.

Some of you are sick fucks if you think it is ok to bait a child into a sex act. I don't care if it is a boy or a girl. The reason these laws exist is because most adults should be capable enough to outwit a child into doing something that they shouldn't be doing.

[EternalGamer]

Wow, according to that chart, the legal age for consent in New Mexico is 17 for heterosexual sex and 13 for homosexual sex. How in the hell that happened I have no idea. But it's interesting to see the double standard reversed for once.

Dan

[Deathbane27]

Did anyone else read "Molestation" as "Mole Station" at first? I was thinking it was some kind of spyware for consoles. :p

[EternalGamer]

True if you are talking about the mentality of most teenage boys. Not true if you are talking about the law. Those women went to jail.

Some of you are sick fucks if you think it is ok to bait a child into a sex act. I don't care if it is a boy or a girl. The reason these laws exist is because most adults should be capable enough to outwit a child into doing something that they shouldn't be doing.


I think you are a bit naive for believing you can universally apply a rule of consensuality to an arbitrary number and think it makes something a reality. Why you think turning 18 gives someone the magical ability to manipulate people whereas before they were completely incapable of any subversive motives is beyond me. Legality and morality are not necessarily one in the same.

The 13 year old met the guy on Xbox LIVE and then made the decision to carry over the relationship to the computer in order to recieve and view sexual videos of the guy and THEN afterwards gave the guy his address and telephone number:

Their conversations progressed to sending e-mails and Web cam videos, with Watts allegedly sending the boy obscene video clips of himself, authorities said. The teen eventually gave Watts his home address and telephone number and they met in a Santa Rosa park in November where the alleged physical abuse occurred.


I am unsure how calling someone a "sick fuck" allows you to immediately dismiss all the arguments being made without addressing any of them.

Dan

[Dirty Harry]

theres a difference between an adult forcably shoving his dick in the face of a kid, and a kid sucking an adult off because he wants to have sex. This kid isnt the victim the media potrays him as, All im saying.


When i was a wee youngin, well i still am but anyways on the internet, ifi received pictures of some doods wang, i would just delete and block the guy. I wouldnt go out of my way to get into contact with him, i feel at even a young age children are more intelligent and mature that adults give them. Maybe as adults people have extreme fear for the safety of their children so they automatically asume little billy doesnt understand the concept of sex, or drugs or even rock and roll so they constantly try to shield them from everything. I disgress, my point is that as a young child i was well aware of what was going around me and how the world worked. To call this child a victim is just false, Do you honestly believe this man came up to the child with candy in one hand and as the kids distracted he fucks him. I doubt it.

P.s.
My view of the age of consent is that its wrong, in everyway. Personally i know of people who are 20 years old for example and are personally not ready for sex. Legally they could have sex but mentally they just arent ready for it. So to put a age limit as to when sex is okay and not okay is purely a personal matter.Some people in this world are late and some are early bloomers in life. Why is it the governments job to dictate when life should "begin".

[Derwin]

This is the reason why Bill Gates invented XBox Live. He's still looking for the right one.

[Kelegacy]

Wow, according to that chart, the legal age for consent in New Mexico is 17 for heterosexual sex and 13 for homosexual sex. How in the hell that happened I have no idea. But it's interesting to see the double standard reversed for once.

Dan
I find it ridiculous (but not completely shocking) that many southern states don't even allow man/man or woman/woman sex. That list that GrinR supplied reads ILLEGAL for many southern states. I believe yours is one of them, EternalGamer.

[EternalGamer]

The state I currently live in certainly is, but I don't claim it for my own. I'm originally from Illinois. I'm only in Mississippi for Graduate school. :)

Anyway, I believe the Supreme Court decision involving the two guys from Texas that were actually arrested for sodomy a few years back made all of those laws unenforcible even if they are still technically on the books.

Dan

[Bone]

Do me a favor- imagine you have a 13 year old daughter and this happens to her, and ask whether it matters if it was consensual or not. Do your beliefs hold for her as they do for this kid, or is it different because he is a gay male? Not an assumption on my part, but consider it.

I agree you don't become an adult at a magic age set by a government, nor are you necessarily a child before that time. But for now, our society has tentatively agreed that sufficient numbers of 13 year olds still need protection from even consensual sex. Especially given the age difference here (as our society can differentiate between a 17 and 15 year old vs a 26 and 13 year old), I would think there is a clear victim in this crime, and also a perpetrator. We call people like him child rapists where I come from.

[Heretic Machine]

Eternalgamer and Perigon both ignore the fact that a 13 year old's brain is not developed enough to understand his sexual feelings, at least by our current societal standards. If they want to call him stupid, I feel comfortable calling them more stupid than a 13 year old.

Wrong, his urges are STRONGER, but he understands them very well. Or he's stupid. Or both. It doesn't matter. In any case, either his hormones were the problem here, or his stupidity, but only one of them is going to get better with age.

The adult shouldn't of had sex with him, this I will agree with. I do not deny his guilt. But the child should be disciplined as well, in the same way. Then we'll see how many of these cases pop up.

[Heretic Machine]

Do me a favor- imagine you have a 13 year old daughter and this happens to her, and ask whether it matters if it was consensual or not. Do your beliefs hold for her as they do for this kid, or is it different because he is a gay male? Not an assumption on my part, but consider it.

I agree you don't become an adult at a magic age set by a government, nor are you necessarily a child before that time. But for now, our society has tentatively agreed that sufficient numbers of 13 year olds still need protection from even consensual sex. Especially given the age difference here (as our society can differentiate between a 17 and 15 year old vs a 26 and 13 year old), I would think there is a clear victim in this crime, and also a perpetrator. We call people like him child rapists where I come from.

Do me a favor - Imagine you have a thirty-six year old daughter, and this happens to her, and ask whether it matters if it was connsensual or not. This is the kind of sensationalist bullshit that has made children into little fuckwads who KNOW that they are't going to be held responsible for anything that they do.

[Banacek]

...

Because like 95% (or somewhere near there) of predators are male.

[Bone]

Do me a favor - Imagine you have a thirty-six year old daughter, and this happens to her, and ask whether it matters if it was connsensual or not. This is the kind of sensationalist bullshit that has made children into little fuckwads who KNOW that they are't going to be held responsible for anything that they do.
Are you even serious? A 36 year old? Come on.

I don't know this kid, so I can't assume he's a saint or a slut, and neither can you, and it doesn't matter. My point was to put yourself in the position of a parent dealing with this and to wonder how well equipped you think a child of 13 is to deal with a 26 year old lover.

[Heretic Machine]

Are you even serious? A 36 year old? Come on.

I don't know this kid, so I can't assume he's a saint or a slut, and neither can you, and it doesn't matter. My point was to put yourself in the position of a parent dealing with this and to wonder how well equipped you think a child of 13 is to deal with a 26 year old lover.

Well enough to jump in the sack with one, appearently.

[Dirty Harry]

What i can agree with is that an adult can surely manipulate a child of that age into becoming their puppet. Ive seen many examples that lead me to believe this theory. So its entirely possible that this man preys on younger children to play them like a fiddle so to speak.

[H.Bogard]

This kid is just a fucking dumbass, end of story.


Totally agreed. :) ... theres nothing innocent or naive about a dick up the ass...even a 5 year old would know that.

Although...i might want to say that....and i`m being flamebait here... but isnt it funny that one day you're underage and on your 18th birthday you transform into an adult magically in one day. I've seen 40 year olds who are more vulnerable to be taken advantage of and some really sharp 14 year olds who are surprisingly mature.

[EternalGamer]

Bone, to answer your question, I certainly would not approve, but that is also because I primarily think 13 is too young to be sexually active. It wouldn't really matter so much how old the person she had consensual sex was in the same way it wouldn't matter to me how old the guy that sold her heroine was. I don't think that age discrepancy automatically indicates the predator or victim nor do I believe it as a simple as labeling one person the "predator" and the other the victim in most cases.

I suppose my views are somewhat "abnormal" as I have pretty liberal views on sexuality in general. When it is consensual, I rarely see a problem when one person wants to rub their appendage around or in another persons various orifices. In fact, I find it silly how much human drama we surround this particular activity with. There are certain very serious consequences that can result from it (namely pregnancy and STD) but the actual act holds no real taboos for me.

Dan

[Neosho]

I hate to break it to you, Eternal, but there's some damn young kids having consenual sex now...13 is old is some areas. I'm an odd case, cause lost my virginity in college, but i happened to be 17 when i was there...i graduated from high school at 16, so i'm out of the house, on my own, entirely, but technically not yet an adult. I also happened to be financially independent, and so on...so where does that put this at? Was my 19 year old g/f at the time a rapist? I think there's a lot more to this story that we can't see through the AP bulletin.

[rein]

I stand by my sick fuck comment. I don't have to support it. The Law does in most states and in this case. If you want to have sex with a 13 year old... ..more power to you. But two things... one.. .don't try to pretend that it is normal behavior and you're not a sick adult. You are manipulating a child that has not developed full mental capacity to understand all of the concequences. Not to mention their body has not developed for sexual maturity in most cases. Two.. .you damn well better make sure it is not my daughter. I will shoot you. In the head. I fucking mean it.

[Neosho]

What if it's not manipulation on the part of the 26 year old though? What then?

[rein]

What if it's not manipulation on the part of the 26 year old though? What then?

Then he is retarded and needs to be institutionalized.

[GrinR]

This entire thread supports my point. There is no longer a common recognized ritual that designates the transition from child to adult. Confirmation, or the barmitzfah (sp?), or getting married, or going on your first hunt alone... these rituals are largely gone, or diluted in meaning to where it's embarassing to verbally make the distinction. You couldn't go to an 18 year old's birthday party and say, "You're a man now! congratulations!" without it sounding pretty odd. Also, it no longer requires any effort to become an adult - there is no ritual or trial that must be endured that strips the child of their childness and forces them to grab the responsibility inherent in being an adult. The closest I can think of in America would be "going off to college" or starting your own business or family. If you don't - what's to distinguish you from a child?

Age - and there you have the law stepping in where tradition had been.

Most of you have commented about your own personal beliefs. Too bad they no longer matter.

[Abash Alarmist]

So we should have a ritual to say one is an adult? Why can't we just base it off of one's own maturity level instead of having it be dependent on age?

[Exodus]

Where's the parents on this one?
I think I'd be interested to know wtf a 26yr old is sending video cameras of himself to my child.

[EternalGamer]

I stand by my sick fuck comment. I don't have to support it. The Law does in most states and in this case. If you want to have sex with a 13 year old... ..more power to you. But two things... one.. .don't try to pretend that it is normal behavior and you're not a sick adult. You are manipulating a child that has not developed full mental capacity to understand all of the concequences. Not to mention their body has not developed for sexual maturity in most cases. Two.. .you damn well better make sure it is not my daughter. I will shoot you. In the head. I fucking mean it.

Uh... wow way to totally misrepresent my argument. I liked it better when you were just calling me a sick fuck, at least then you weren't accusing me fo being a pediophile. I give up.

Dan

[Atepsflame]

Eternalgamer and Perigon both ignore the fact that a 13 year old's brain is not developed enough to understand his sexual feelings, at least by our current societal standards. If they want to call him stupid, I feel comfortable calling them more stupid than a 13 year old.

Oh for fucks sake. Ok. Ok. Listen people. EVEYRONE IS DIFFERENT. STOP FUCKING GENERALIZING. Jesus. If you can prove to me that there are no 13 year olds out there mature enough to understand sex, then go right ahead and try. I guarantee that you'll have a damn hard time doing it.

[Subbacultcha]

Bottom line: kids aren't as smart as the popular culture makes them out to be.

At the risk of being unpopular, a person under 17 can safely be assumed to be a dumbass (I know I was at that age).

If there isn't a responsible adult around to take care of their safety, they can end up in deep doggy-dodo.

[Crabby]

Bottom line: kids aren't as smart as the popular culture makes them out to be.

At the risk of being unpopular, a person under 17 can safely be assumed to be a dumbass (I know I was at that age).

If there isn't a responsible adult around to take care of their safety, they can end up in deep doggy-dodo.


You have that backwards. Popular culture says they are dumbasses.

[bobbler]

I'm retarded.

I sat there at the forum home wondering what the fuck a Mole Station was.

[Deathbane27]

I'm retarded.

I sat there at the forum home wondering what the fuck a Mole Station was.

Ah, good, I wasn't the only one then. :p

[Subbacultcha]

You have that backwards. Popular culture says they are dumbasses.

I guess there are subcategories within this stereotype:
- The precocious pre-teen
- Intelligent but angst-ridden junior high schooler
- Senior high schooler, of which there is a spectrum from stoner (aka dumbass) to Dawson's Creek proto-yuppy.

[Mystery Writer X]

The idea has as much apppeal to me as having sex with an ostrich.

Maybe you just haven't met the right ostrich. I will say that the average ostrich is very clingy afterwards and that's just a little annoying.

[rein]

Uh... wow way to totally misrepresent my argument. I liked it better when you were just calling me a sick fuck, at least then you weren't accusing me fo being a pediophile. I give up.

Dan

Ok... I don't mean that you are a pedophile. Unless you are planning to have sex with a 13 year old. I was using you in more of a general sense. I missrepresented myself a little too. I do not think there is a magic number of 18 years old and everyone is an adult. But when the topic of a 26 year old having sex with a 13 year old is turned around to try and make it sound like it is the 13 year olds fault. Well... ..I mean that is just stupid. I think we can all agree that a 13 year old might be a bit more naive than the 26 year old. I think we might can agree that the 26 year old probably took advantage of that. But, no.. sorry for calling you a pedophile. That was not my intent.

[Paltry]

So the kid likes a steamy meatlog after a rousing game of halo2... who doesnt? I mean, come on!

[bardockkun]

So i'm supposed to believe a seven year old kid can whomp my ass at Halo 2 without breaking a sweat, while a 13 year old doesn't know how to say no to some child molestor wanting to rape him?

I'm pretty sure that 13 year old was asking for it if the math adds up and isn't just stupid.

[Sion]

True if you are talking about the mentality of most teenage boys. Not true if you are talking about the law. Those women went to jail.

Some of you are sick fucks if you think it is ok to bait a child into a sex act. I don't care if it is a boy or a girl. The reason these laws exist is because most adults should be capable enough to outwit a child into doing something that they shouldn't be doing.

Well, the number for boys being molested by women is unaccounted for. There is no way to even estimate becuase boys dont tell, but when they do there is a huge difference. Boys who are molested are much more likely to enjoy it and feel lucky than girls who are molested by men.

[Sl1pstream]

It's been stated before, but anyway.

They met on Xbox Live, a system that has the ability to put up restrictions (mute or even disable voice just to name two). He then gave the guy his e-mailadres and had more conversations with him (both msn and normal email have the ability to block people). He then gave his home adress.

My question: Where were his parents?

[Raven_payne]

it was bound t happen hell...it might of happen plenty of times it's just hasn't bee reported it hid own fault too tho you dont go out and meet 27 year old men when you're playing Xbox it's really sad

[bean19]

I've kept fairly quiet on this subject, because I find it disturbing, and thought that someone would speak up to make the point I'm about to make.

While I agree with GrinR that our government has replaced culture and tradition about when a man becomes a man with an arbitrary age, this has very little to do with whether or not an immoral and illegal crime took place.

Eternalgamer is also correct that there is a power difference in many adult relationships, but we do not prosecute people who gain sex through this power difference unless the work place is used as a tool to pressure someone into sex.

The age of consnt assigned by state legislators is not perfect, but it is an estimation of when the general populous has the emotional maturity to willingly consent to sex.

Any time an adult has sex with a child, there is a power difference and exploiting that authority for sex is both immoral and illegal. It is immoral in it's adult analogues too, but unless people's livelihoods are on the line, we largely turn a blind eye to it as it would be unjust to permanent children (people who are biologically aged over 18, but will never reach adult maturity) to exclude them from procreation or recreational sex. However, we do continue to protect people with disabilities like retardation or infirmity from being sexually exploited.

Children are easy to manipulate. This kid could have been lured by the 26 y/o pretending to be a friendly "buddy". He may have sent straight porn and lured him to "hang out" as someone else mentioned, or he might have lured a young gay person by sending gay porn and wanting to "hang out". As adults, it seems obvious to us that sending porn is an advertisement of our intentions, but I can remember sharing my dad's Playboy magazines with friends as a teenager and I didn't have any sexual intentions whatsoever in doing so. Or the kid may have been lured knowing that the predator had sexual intentions, but was merely curious and did not know how to draw the boundary with the predator after meeting him in person, or the predator could have not respected his boundaries and used the situation (The kid is probably lying to parents about where he is and would be ashamed to be forced "out of the closet" and doesn't have the means to return home because he is in the predator's car).

That is why the whole situation stinks, and why the teenager was definitely the victim and why this act is definitely immoral.

On the other points, I think we need to start the move to adulthood sooner. We should start educating children about the government, law, and the dangers of overusing adult vices immediately in high school, and getting your driver's license should be "adulthood". It should also be when children are first allowed to vote, and are able to buy alcohol, have sex, and be tried as adults in courts. They should have to pass a test for their driver's license that shows an understanding of all of these subjects and not just driving.

The above. . . or an approximation is how things are handled in many European countries and they have much fewer problems with alcohol and drug use, as well as a lower teen birth rate.

Also, I think the sex offender laws are pretty insane. The reason they have grown worse and worse is that these laws are easy to campaign on and hard to vote against. The recidivissm rate for sex offenders who are caught and treated is much lower than that for other types of criminals, but only one group of criminals is publically tagged and punished with shame in the name of crime prevention. I'm not totally against sex offender registration, and I think that any sex offender that has more than one victim should have to do it, but I think that people who get caught once and then mend their ways shouldn't be forced to register for the rest of their lives. This would provide a catch-all for people who make bad decisions in their youth. . . like the 17 y/o boy with a 14 y/o girlfriend, or the 18 y/o gay kid who has sex with the only other gay kid he knows that is 12 y/o, but those are borderline cases that are obvious. . . Still, I think people should be able to pay for their crimes and then be able to rejoin society. Even the 40 y/o creepy dad who molests his 5 y/o daughter shouldn't be branded for life. After he serves his time in jail and/or his term of probation, he should not be a registered sex offender UNLESS he does it again with any victim.

The problem with this is that there are legal problems with making registration tied to multiple offenses. The sex offender laws are "civil" rather than "criminal" so that they can be used against people AFTER their crime was committed, and due to the shaming nature of registration, it could easily be struck down as cruel and unusual punishment. . . IF it were a punishment and not construed as a civil obligation like paying your taxes or getting your driver's license reknewed.

[EternalGamer]

Very well thought out and well stated bean. An an excellent and reasonable discussion that avoids the polemics of the issue.

Dan

[H.Bogard]

I'm retarded.

I sat there at the forum home wondering what the fuck a Mole Station was.

I hate you....clean the freakin coffee off my monitor NOW!

ah well....i guess putting it on the sig would make me feel better noitdoesnt!

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Ok, I have to log in on this one.

1) The guy is a sick bastard, that is a given.

2) This guy is just one of hundreds of thousands of sick f_cks...anyone ever hear of N.A.M.B.L.A?

3) The average 13 year old would have simply told the sick bastard to f-off and would have went back to playing Halo. If you don't believe me, listen to the speech patterns of 13 yr olds on Live...they are vulgar little bastards.

4) The blame for this fiasco lies greatly with this little dumbasses parents. Did they not teach little Timmy to be scared of weirdo strangers? My parents made it crystal clear that there were sickos who wanted to do bad things to me....so protect your "O" ring at all times. Lastly, if they didn't have the time to watch little Timmy or telll him all of the things that a good parent tells their kid, then they sure as f_ck shouldn't have let him have let him on the internet or Xbox Live...shit, just take away the communicator and that solves a lot of problems.

5) I agree with what was posted before, I hope Jack(hole) Thompson doesn't try to weigh in on this one. I hope the parents don't try to sue MS and I hope they send this guy to a place where the inmates will appreciate his crime and reward him justly.

...I take it all back. I know what confused Timmy. Chester the Molester probably told him "No, no Timmy, this is ok! Don't you know? It's GOOD to play together!"

Roflmao...yeah I know that was bad.

[SMES]

Chester the Molester probably told him "No, no Timmy, this is ok! Don't you know? It's GOOD to play together!"


Jump in.

It's true that you can't generalize about all 13 year olds not being ready for consensual sex, but that's what laws are all about. Consensus on generalizations. There are some people, somewhere, who disagree with every law. Majorities of populations in certain areas disagree with laws but can't get them changed because of political pressure. Laws are generalizations. Deal with it.