Sony Highlights PSP, not PS3 at CES

[bapenguin]

According to Joystiq (http://joystiq.com/2006/01/04/ces-sony-keynote-fails-to-get-us-higher/) Sony didn't talk much about the PS3 as expected (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8484), but instead focused on the PSP and its Location Free streaming capabilities.

There were a few minutes of gloating, culminating in a claim that the PS2 is on track for a 10-year life cycle, and then Sony got into the heart of its gaming presentation... the PSP. The focus tonight was on the PSP's remote-viewer feature for LocationFree TV (released in v2.60 firmware), as a Sony rep proudly showed off a live television feed from his New York home here in Las Vegas—elsewhere, another rep logged-in to his Tokyo base station. In addition, Sony announced that the Connect Video download service will launch in March, allowing users to download feature length videos onto the PSP's memory stick. Overall, the lack of news was a disappointment.
That does sound pretty cool, but you need that expensive Location Free station to make it work.

[UnderHero5]

That does sound pretty cool, but you need that expensive Location Free station to make it work.

Know what sounds even cooler?

Some fucking GAMES for my $250 paper weight!

[novicius]

Make that some fucking ORIGINAL GAMES for that $250 paperweight. :D

Traded mine in on the 360. Long live the GBASP!

[PantherModern]

Yeah, I tossed mine for 360 accessories. I got a GBA Micro (Famicom Edition) for Christmas and I have already logged more time with that in 2 weeks than I had with my PSP in months. It's pretty, and it has potential, but getting my video iPod made it completely irrelevant in my life. I'll be playing my DS while the PSP owners (if there are any left) are watching Wedding Crashers on UMD for the 10th time. The only game on the horizon I was even curious about was the untitled David Jaffe project (I was hoping for a God of War title, but I don't think that is going to happen).

[Kelegacy]

Know what sounds even cooler?

Some fucking GAMES for my $250 paper weight!

That's why I don't understand why people buy consoles before any decent games are released, at least a handful anyway.

SUCKERS.

[DeadPixel]

I sold mine about a month ago, lost some money on it, but sooooo glad I got anything back. What a waste of money it was.

[markster3000]

Once you get past the fact that the PSP is no longer a gaming machine, this seems to be a pretty good move for Sony.

If these "Location Free" stations are not outrageously expensive, you could begin to see, in effect, TV stations that are PSP excusive. Buying PSP movies might suck, but logging into some station and watching some ad-supported (non-subscription) TV probably wouldn't.

[Pumped'Up]

Make that some fucking ORIGINAL GAMES for that $250 paperweight. :D

Traded mine in on the 360. Long live the GBASP!
Funny how most games are on both DS/GBA and PSP. Funny thing is, PSP version always looks and plays better than the DS/GBA counterpart.

[Ludoc]

I need help, please some Sony fan boy come out of the wood work and tell me what's going on. It seems to me that Sony has turned utterly retarded since about this time last year and keeps piling one stupid mistake on top of another.

Slimline PS2 incompatible with hard drive, no PS3 info/hype a few months before it's launch, no games for PSP, still pushing UMDs as the video iPod and MS partners like Toshiba launch digital video players. WTF is going on?

I know Sony can't be that dumb. Please, someone, enlighten me as to their plan to control the gaming world and digital content through that; because all I'm seeing right now is a comedy of errors.

MS has done some dumb shit recently (optional hd/not building enogh consoles/send all th consoles that do get built to Japan) but compared to Sony...

[Pumped'Up]

Microsoft would have sold much much more Xboxs if they hadn't designed the thing the size of a freakn bloody suitcase. Sony made the right choice with the slimline PS2.

[UnderHero5]

That's why I don't understand why people buy consoles before any decent games are released, at least a handful anyway.

SUCKERS.

Well when I bought the thing it looked very promising. I bought it along with 3 games, then bought 2 more of thel aunch games soon after.
The launch of the console was excellent!
The problem is that there has not been a single game that interests me since then.

And I'm not kidding. I didn't want Burnout or GTA since I have them on the consoles and I really just don't want a "light" version on a handheld.

I have no problem with ports if they add something to the game... I don't feel that Burnout or GTA have added anything to the series on PSP.

Meanwhile Animal Crossing on DS makes me VERY happy, hehe.

The only reason I still have my PSP is for Worms and possibly Lemmings.

And Worms is also coming out for the DS... so....

[Kelegacy]

Funny how most games are on both DS/GBA and PSP. Funny thing is, PSP version always looks and plays better than the DS/GBA counterpart.

I don't know. I'm a pretty big Sony fan (boy?) but the DS is current leader of the PSP/DS war because it has earned it. The PSP's biggest killer is the lack of great games...or ANY games as of late. Right now I have a veritable pile of DS games to dive into, and many of them are system-purchase justifications on their own. Besides Grand Theft Auto I can't think of any other games I'd like to play right now. But you are correct, the games definitely do look better on that beautiful PSP screen...now if we could just GET some.

Until then, I'm a DSurbator. Love the little thing. I've been meaning to play some console games this week, write, or even watch some friggin' television, but I can't; the tiny little DS has been stealing my time away so sneakily.

[grimjoe]

i dont know about how it is where you all live but in new york, all you see is UMD movies with maybe 1-2 games tossed in between.

Most people(that i work with) seem to think its more of a portable DVD player than a gaming machine. DS is the way to go for games and they have the selection to play from, not movies.

[Reanimated]

Meh what a complete letdown.

All they did is show me another reason that the PSP is worthless to me as a gamer, and I don't need a fucking little media player. I have a laptop with a DVD drive for trips, and in any other situation, I'd rather be playing a handheld GAME than trying to watch a 2 hour movie anyway.

What a complete failure of a device.

[CrysDark]

Meh what a complete letdown.

All they did is show me another reason that the PSP is worthless to me as a gamer, and I don't need a fucking little media player. I have a laptop with a DVD drive for trips, and in any other situation, I'd rather be playing a handheld GAME than trying to watch a 2 hour movie anyway.

What a complete failure of a device.

That depends on what the aim of the device was, was it a game machine or a media player? I think it has slowly evolved now it's a media machine that plays games instead of a game machine that plays media.

[Rafer]

I was just looking at this gaming-age thread (http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=79037) and some of the upcoming games look nice. Lots of 2d stuff, someone realised 2d works better on handhelds than consoles. Though way too many ports, and some "original" 2d rpgs would be nice.

[jacktion]

who is going to buy some expensive peripheral and set it up to stream crappy tv shows over the internet when you are on a trip for a couple of days? Is this useful? Is this all Sony has? they are really teh doom3d!1

[spacerat100]

seriously.. just download the shows, use PSPvideo9, and then copy them to your memory stick.. no annoying ass DRm and its free...

[Groo]

Every Extend Extra

Frickin' sweet, a new Q entertainment game.

[bobbler]

Frickin' sweet, a new Q entertainment game.

It's like geometry wars style game (it seems?) with a mix of lumines (the way it handles music, at least). Should be interesting to see how it turns out.

[Player 1]

And I'm not kidding. I didn't want Burnout or GTA since I have them on the consoles and I really just don't want a "light" version on a handheld.

Meanwhile Animal Crossing on DS makes me VERY happy, hehe.

Que?

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

[Vandenh]

>Once you get past the fact that the PSP is no longer a gaming machine, this seems to be a pretty good move for Sony.

Dude... the PSP is a crap "portable media centre". If you want that buy a real one (http://www.flickr.com/photos/majornelson/sets/1760920/). If you want games buy a DS. The only reason people have bought a PSP is because it was hyped and looked good in a demo unit. Oh... AND UMD!!! rofl

The PSP as we know it now will be dead and gone in 2 years and replaced by a HD version that will finally bring it up to speed. Of course you still have the Sony DRM crap to deal with of course.

[MaiXu]

So do they have any plans for letting you PLAY with your PlayStation Portable? Or do they want you to continue to, ya know, WATCH things on them?

[sTubbs]

I am curious as to when they are going to show something actually playable on the PS3. You know...that console thingy that is supposed to hit the market in a few months? I will eat my own face if there is a single PS3 available for sale anywhere in the world come Spring 2006. Well, no I won't but there are only two possibilities. Either Sony is planning something HUGE for the PS3 at E3 2006, or they are so massively behind any appropriate schedule that they will be lucky to get something decent out before the end of the year.

[Mason]

Ouch.

How long until they kind of pretend that they don't understand what this PS3 is you're talking about, and look really uncomfortable until the subject is changed?

[Lutheran]

I am waiting for someone to step up and defend the PSP but it seems we are all in agreement that the PSP is so far a disappointment as a gaming device although I do like playing the new Prince of Persia game and GTA as I never played either of them on the other consoles. Also I love being able to play homebrew stuff and having the ability to download almost any movie and play it on my mem stick and PSP. This year hopefully there are a lot more game releases.

[sTubbs]

Ouch.

How long until they kind of pretend that they don't understand what this PS3 is you're talking about, and look really uncomfortable until the subject is changed?

They will probably just send Ken back out to say something unbelievably handicapped in order to divert our focus yet again.

I do not want Sony to fall, but I do think they need some proper competition to give them a much needed kick in the ass. They have gotten far too lazy and hopefully MS can keep the pressure on and force Sony back on track. Sony already has the software support (but even that is faltering as of late). All they need to do is release a functional console to take advantage of it. Unfortunately, they seem to have lost the ability to do even that.

[Nominal]

I won my PSP as part of a McDonalds promo, which is pretty crazy, because I probably went to McDonalds a total of three times last year. There is absolutely no way I'd buy one unless the price was under $100, and even then, probably not until it develops a solid base of games. So yeah, basically never. Thanks, Ronald!

[Vandenh]

>hey will probably just send Ken back out to say something unbelievably handicapped in order to divert our focus yet again

Or announce Bluray movies!

[divinechaos]

Que?

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.


I dont think AC for the DS is a "light" version since it has like 600 more items than the original AND its WiFi, unlike GTA and Burnout for the PSP. Oh, and did i mention AC is way cheaper?

[bapenguin]

I really like my DS but it hurts the fuck out of my hands to play it. Half the time I need to set it on the table or play it flat in my lap. Please redesign it Nintendo.

On topic - I wish my PSP had a built in HD to take place of my dieing iPod. Oh right..games...we need games too.

[divinechaos]

Funny how most games are on both DS/GBA and PSP. Funny thing is, PSP version always looks and plays better than the DS/GBA counterpart.

And what are some games that are available for both? the only one i can think of is Burnout Legends, and that was made by EA, so....oh wait...mayb FIFA/Madden 06 but thats also EA.

[Kelegacy]

I really like my DS but it hurts the fuck out of my hands to play it. Half the time I need to set it on the table or play it flat in my lap. Please redesign it Nintendo.

On topic - I wish my PSP had a built in HD to take place of my dieing iPod. Oh right..games...we need games too.
Hurts my hands sometimes, but mostly just with games that don't use the stylus, like Mario Kart. I have to rearrange my hands so I don't get cramping. And I have average sized hands, no gorilla mits.

[Reanimated]

>hey will probably just send Ken back out to say something unbelievably handicapped in order to divert our focus yet again

Or announce Bluray movies!




Yeah, same difference.

And on another note: DS >>>>> All. If you disagree, Phoenix Wright will prove you wrong and kick your ass.

[drakkarim]

personally i don 't care about either (psp or ds), as the rpg titles are limited (amount and quality) on both, and that's my only purhcasing decision maker on ANY platform/system.

which is probably a good thing for me, as this way i don't buy a bunch of crap and waste my time playing it while i should be doing something more productive :)

[Salesmunn]

Not sure what everyone's complaining about. I listen to people squeal about the PSP and I swear everyone must be playing a different system.

I play my PSP every day since I bought it at launch and have seven titles in my collection. Currently, I'm addicted to Socom FTB online (16 players with voice chat!) which I play often from my cubicle during lunch. I have FFVII Advent Children on my memory stick right now as well, I watch it in 20 minute spurts, like when I'm eating or cooking dinner. I'll just toss a different movie on there when I finish that one and fire that up whenever I can't game, like when my hands are full of greasy food or something.

The PSP Media Manager automatically downloads the newest podcasts I frequent and sends them over to my PSP as soon as I plug the system into my PC at night. I picked up the +20% battery last week and that lets me go about two full days (6-8 hours) before having to plug it in. Would I like to have more battery life from the stock battery? Yeah maybe, but with the iPod only having 2 1/2 hours of lower-quality video playback, I was happy to get 5 hours from my PSP with a larger screen.

I bought the PSP expecting a console in my hand it's delivered. While the PS2 never took advantage of my $99 hard drive and the online play is buggy and disappointing, Sony has shown me that they are slowly going to squeeze every multimedia feature out of my PSP instead of letting it's potential fall through the cracks. The online is smooth and disconnect free and the games are already comparable to the PS2.

I should also add that I own a DS as well, recent titles are Animal Crossing and Mario and Luigi 2. The PSP still keeps my interest.

[AntB]

I love my PSP. I don't like the DS, it's an ugly clunker. The only thing on the DS that I like is Advanced Wars.

I got my self a 2GB memory stick from my Digital Camera/Recorder and I put a *BUTT LOAD* of homebrew on it and I'm extremely content.

Metal Slug 2 owns. Chorno Trigger owns. Having a full season of Family Guy, American Dad, and Seinfeld on the go... OWNS. I commute to work everyday, an hour there, an hour back. Reading started getting boring. Now I watch my favorite sitcoms, and play my favorite oldies, I don't look to portable consoles for INNOVATION, I just need to be intertained for 2 hours a day. Oh, and I'll never run out of sitcoms. I don't use the PSP at home.

[PantherModern]

It's really sad, you know? I was totally ready to jump on Sony's bandwagon with the PSP. I was ready to be amazed. I was ready for some quality handheld gaming that would lead me, laughing and jumping, into the world of PS3. But, after a few months, that lustre came off and I realized that I had a portable media convergence device disguised as a Playstation. There tons of games that I might have given a go with, but for 50 freaking dollars, I will buy something that I can play on my TV. The 30 to 35 dollar per game price range is much deeper into splurge territory for me, and I am more willing to take a chance on a game at that price point. And 20 bucks for a UMD movie that I can't use in anything else? Are you crazy? It's called ripping onto a big memory stick.

But, the final nail in the coffin was the video iPod. I mean, why struggle with a 1 or 2 gig memory card when I can have 60 freaking gigs to work with? I've got 8 movies and hours of TV on there already, plus 30 gigs of music. Yeah, the screen is smaller, but it looks great and is easy enough to see that my wife and I watched (well, I mostly listened to) Hi-Fidelity on the way home from a holiday trip by setting it on the dashboard of our car.

As far as I am concerned, personally, the PSP was a massive failure. So much so that it has damaged my entire view of Sony as a viable gaming company. I'm having a freaking blast with my 360, and unless the Silent Hill series goes exclusively to PS3, I may very well be a MS/Nintendo boy this time around.

Sigh.

/dashed hopes

I love my PSP. I don't like the DS, it's an ugly clunker. The only thing on the DS that I like is Advanced Wars.

Agreed, needs a redesign. But the games are fun, man. And I like having fun.

Metal Slug 2 owns. Chorno Trigger owns. Having a full season of Family Guy, American Dad, and Seinfeld on the go... OWNS. I commute to work everyday, an hour there, an hour back. Reading started getting boring. Now I watch my favorite sitcoms, and play my favorite oldies, I don't look to portable consoles for INNOVATION, I just need to be intertained for 2 hours a day. Oh, and I'll never run out of sitcoms. I don't use the PSP at home.

I still think it is the most hilarious thing in the world that people are willing to pay 250 dollars for a portable from Sony to play emulated SNES games. I think that says a lot, really. And I am all for shows on the go, but again, I chose the Video iPod, so no big deal there. I guess if it does what you need it to, then more power to you. But, it just didn't live up to the promises that Sony made (big shock) so I tossed it to the curb and haven't looked back.

Oh, and that analog nub? Screw that action. That thing just plain sucks.

[Kelegacy]

I love my PSP. I don't like the DS, it's an ugly clunker. The only thing on the DS that I like is Advanced Wars.

I got my self a 2GB memory stick from my Digital Camera/Recorder and I put a *BUTT LOAD* of homebrew on it and I'm extremely content.

Metal Slug 2 owns. Chorno Trigger owns. Having a full season of Family Guy, American Dad, and Seinfeld on the go... OWNS. I commute to work everyday, an hour there, an hour back. Reading started getting boring. Now I watch my favorite sitcoms, and play my favorite oldies, I don't look to portable consoles for INNOVATION, I just need to be intertained for 2 hours a day. Oh, and I'll never run out of sitcoms. I don't use the PSP at home.
But those are not PSP native. I don't buy a videogame system unless there are good games available, and there has to be more than 2 or 3. Uploading movies and emulators does not sell as system to me, and that's all that really is available for the PSP right now. Again, I'm a big fan of the Playstation 1/2, a HUGE fan, but not of the PSP unfortunately. Not right now, anyway.

I just ordered Advance Wars, so I'll see how I like it in the next week, but the two games I have played on the DS--Trauma Center and Mario Kart--are great fun. Mario Kart is enough to purchase the DS for, even if it is "ugly". I actually like the little machine, but I admit it's not as aestetically pleasing as the PSP. But it's definitely more durable and portable-gaming worthy. I'll trade style for substance any day.

[Rakael]

You will love Advance Wars Kel, that is if you like strategy games at all. After reading that you had ordered it, I dug it out again yesterday and played about three random battles in a row. Took like four hours and I was in such sweet heaven. Thanks for reminding me that I have that little gem.

[Kelegacy]

You will love Advance Wars Kel, that is if you like strategy games at all. After reading that you had ordered it, I dug it out again yesterday and played about three random battles in a row. Took like four hours and I was in such sweet heaven. Thanks for reminding me that I have that little gem.
Here's the thing: I don't play strategy games because they steal my life away. I swore off of them after Civ2 and Alpha Centauri. They are awesome fun, but I cant afford the night/day cycles that I lose. I also don't play MMORPGs either, just single player stuff, for that very reason.

But I still love the strategy genre, and for a handheld this will be PERFECT for me. Never played the others. I've been looking at grabbing some old GBA games because I haven't owned a handheld since the first-era Gameboys back in 1989 or something, but many games are still a bit pricey for a tiny little cartridge, even after being out for a few years. I want Riviera and the Golden Suns, but many games are still around 20-30 bucks and I just bought a few games...I'll probably have to wait a while.

Anyway, I played more Trauma Center last night and good God that game is evil. I did complete a few more surgeries, but many after multiple tries. It punishes you for lack of speed, quick-thought, and inaccuracy. It's great,
but frustrating at times...probably like real-life surgery, in a way.

[Rakael]

Yeah, Trauma Center is one of those games I cannot play for more than a few minutes for fear of throwing my favorite little toy against the wall. Advance Wars and Animal Crossing I can play for hours on end though, especially Advance Wars. Another good thing about the DS is that you can always just plug it in, close it, and pick up your hard-fought battle at any time. I did that a lot when I was really playing Advance Wars. I honestly don't think my DS was really turned off for over a week.

I really need to pick up Mario Kart myself. Saving for the new PC's is seriously cutting into my game budget however. Good thing I have great games like Advance Wars, Animal Crossing, the Golden Suns (great fucking games btw), and more to fall back on.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

I'd say the sentiment here is out of touch with the average gamer. Most thought the 360 would not be as succesful as it has been. Most (including myself) thought people were smart enough not to pay extra money for less content on the UMDs.
Stop into any Best Buy and the selection of UMDs are staggering. The PSP sales seemed to be pretty good through the holidays. A lot of people don't know how to rip a movie to a mem stick, so a UMD is the quick, easy (expensive) way to do it.
The PSP was geared more to the casual gamer. I personally believe the PSP was never primarily thought of as a game system by Sony, but as a way for them to get out their UMD format. They just marketed it as a game machine because they would of had a much harder time marketing it as a handheld media center.
The 'harcore' crowd here keeps looking at a console/game and thinks it 'should have had...' or 'they should have done...' while most gamers probably take the game at face value and don't invest their energy on whats not there.

[rainbowblack]

i unfortunetly have a psp

but i just consider it my portable RPG paradise, i swear i threw every single possible RPG in there, from the classics to the clunkers. im not happy with the lack of games for the PSP. but hey, im making the most out of my situation

[Kelegacy]

Yeah, Trauma Center is one of those games I cannot play for more than a few minutes for fear of throwing my favorite little toy against the wall. Advance Wars and Animal Crossing I can play for hours on end though, especially Advance Wars. Another good thing about the DS is that you can always just plug it in, close it, and pick up your hard-fought battle at any time. I did that a lot when I was really playing Advance Wars. I honestly don't think my DS was really turned off for over a week.

I really need to pick up Mario Kart myself. Saving for the new PC's is seriously cutting into my game budget however. Good thing I have great games like Advance Wars, Animal Crossing, the Golden Suns (great fucking games btw), and more to fall back on.
I'd get Animal Crossing, but I fear I'd be bored doing weird errands and collecting stuff with no real goal in sight. I never played the GC version, so the game is completely alien to me.

I'm going to try ebaying or half.com-ing some GBA games and see if I can get a decent deal. I need some RPGs to play, and the DS only has one (Partners in Time). I still have Nanostray for the DS in the shrink wrap, unsure if I should even bother opening it. Maybe I can trade something for it at the gamestore...but probably not.

[51|RandoM]

This is sony trying to repair bad marketing with more bad marketing.

If they were going to focus on media capabilities, it should've never been branded with the playstation name. It should've had some flavor of the walkman name.

Secondly, continually pushing its media capabilities---when it is mediocre at best in comparison to the competition---just rubs salt in the wounds of PSP owners crying out for a real game library.

...and to the person who said most games come out on PSP and GBA/DS, I've got to wonder if that is a blatant troll, or if you really are that misinformed. The DS games people keep talking about on this site, in a multitude of threads, are exactly games not available on the PSP.

[Mason]

Yes yes, you all got suckered into buying PSPs. Old news. Sony continuing to downplay the launch of the PS3 is big, scary, unfortunate, but still major news. Just remember how Ken couldn't open his mouth last year without boasting about the PS3? This isn't Japanese reticence or a calculated media ploy, there is something wrong.

My guess? Developers are having a bitch of a time with the in-order instructions, and the compiler isn't mature enough to minimize the problem, and until they provide better-optimized compilers no dev team is really confident about what features they'll be able to run on the final hardware.

[Jaybo]

Nope I agree with the majority and I gladly got rid of my PSP for a 360.

I like that question someone mentioned- how much do you PLAY your PLAYstation Portable, and how much do you WATCH it in comparison?

I love it when everyone goes WAIT WAIT WAIT you can run ILLEGAL roms on this sucker and play ancient games on it! Yeah. Woohoo. Definitely worth the $400 investment of the system and a decent mem stick. Right.

The DS on the other hand... hit after hit. Oh, and yes they are redesigning the DS to whoever asked.

[AntB]

Jaybo, me owning the Real games, technically it's illegal, but everyone knows it's OK, since I own the original cartridge. Except, metal slug 2.


I play it about 3/4th of the time. The rest I watch. See, I don't look at the PSP as a propriaterry game machine to just play Sony games. I consider it more of a portable computer then a portable console. I can do anything with my PSP. What can you do with your DS? ONLY PLAY GAMES. I didn't want the psp solely for it's gaming functionality, I was fully aware of the lack of PSP games. But I was also fully aware of the fact that I would be able to carry around my ENTIRE SNES, GENESIS and GAME BOY ADVANCED library on one device with one or two memory sticks. And on top of that, I can carry around my music and videos, E-Books, and I can browse the web on it wirelessly in my office and carry around information with me whereever I need it and I can view it.

Can your DS do that? No. Then again, there are people that want to play new games on their couch, but for that I would rather spend 100$ on a gamecube or xbox (with a larger game library). This is the TRUE portable system, my hands don't cramp after playing games on it for 2 hours. I bet playing metroid will give you sick cramps.

I got exactly what I wanted from my PSP. I am a happy PSP owner. It saddens me that you are not. If you have a PSP collecting dust, I suggest you do some google searching and try to find something that would give you enjoyment from your PSP. Be it E-Books(store your entire library on your PSP), learning to code!(Lua is a great new frontend), or just for nostalgias sake, I bet you there are some RPG's and Action games on the old consoles which would blow your DS games out of the water.

Anyway, whatever floats your boat man. Just don't waste your PSP, if it's collecting dust and you really don't enjoy it, sell it to someone that will.

[Jaybo]

Yeah I figured you didn't really read what I wrote. The very first sentence states what I already did with my PSP.

The problem is, if you want a good multimedia device, there is plenty better out there that can do more than the PSP. The fact that it is constantly advertising it as a gaming device is a joke.