HD-DVD Drive Announced for XBox 360 [Archive]

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bapenguin

01-04-2006, 06:44 PM

Tonight another announcement will be made regarding the XBox 360. There was some rumor before that Microsoft would release a new version of the console with an HD-DVD drive. Instead, they will be releasing an HD-DVD drive as an external peripheral.

Gates will also announce an agreement with DirecTV in regards to sharing content between DirecTV devices, Windows Media PCs and Media Center extenders like the XBox 360.

The line is now clearly drawn in the next gen format wars. Sony stands on one side, Microsoft on the other.

bapenguin

01-04-2006, 06:45 PM

LAS VEGAS — Jan. 4, 2006 — Highlighting key consumer products such as Xbox 360™ and offering the first broad demonstration of the consumer features of Windows Vista™, Microsoft Corp. Chairman and Chief Software Architect Bill Gates showed how the company is delivering on its vision for a digital lifestyle where devices, services and applications work together seamlessly. In his 10th annual keynote address at the 2006 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas, Gates demonstrated how Microsoft® Windows Vista, Xbox 360, new mobile devices and the emerging wave of software-based services will deliver more connected and richly personalized experiences for consumers.

In his keynote, Gates said that the consumer electronics industry is poised to deliver a quantum leap forward in rich, interactive, high-definition experiences. “Technology has revolutionized how we listen to music, watch TV, play games, communicate, and manage and share personal information,” he said. “In the years ahead, further exciting innovations will unify the software, hardware and services in people’s lives, offering them even richer, more engaging and deeply connected experiences.”

Windows Vista Unveiled

In the first broad demonstration of Windows Vista for consumers, Gates showed how Microsoft’s next-generation operating system, due later this year, will offer customers powerful new advances in security, search capability and digital entertainment. He highlighted how Windows Vista will bring clarity to customers’ digital world and help them easily accomplish everyday tasks, instantly find what they want, enjoy the latest in entertainment, keep their personal information safe, and stay connected at home or on the go.

He highlighted some of the most compelling consumer-oriented features of Windows Vista, including a sleek user interface, richer multitasking experiences and deep integration of search throughout the operating system. He also showed the new Windows® Photo Gallery, which will make managing and working with digital photos easier.

He showcased the most advanced Windows games platform for everyone from casual players to hard-core gamers, including stunning graphics capabilities, by premiering Microsoft Games Studios’ forthcoming “Flight Simulator X,” the most realistic flight simulator in the franchise’s 25-year history.

Gates was joined onstage by MTV Networks’ Music Group President Van Toffler to showcase the forthcoming URGE digital music service, which is designed to bring people’s emotional connections with music to the forefront of the digital entertainment experience. URGE will give users of Windows Media® Player 11 instant access to more than 2 million songs from major and independent labels as well as exclusive MTV Networks programming and content.

Demonstrating the Windows Media Center capabilities of Windows Vista, Gates cited growing momentum around the platform by announcing that more than 6.5 million Windows XP Media Center Edition-based PCs have been sold from more than 130 computer manufacturers worldwide.

In another sign of momentum for Windows XP Media Center 2005, Microsoft announced that Comedy Central has joined a group of 110 Online Spotlight content partners and that forthcoming Media Center PCs will include CableCARD support for high-definition programming without a set-top box. This will allow users to plug their digital cable signal directly into their PC to watch and record premium cable content, including high-definition programming, without a set-top box.

Xbox 360 Leads the Way in High-Definition Entertainment
Just a month after the global launch of the new Xbox 360 video game and entertainment system, Gates discussed the product’s strong momentum in delivering high-definition hardware, games and digital entertainment experiences. Xbox 360 is on track to be the fastest-selling video game console ever, forecast to ship between 4.5 million and 5.5 million units worldwide by the end of June 2006.
Gates noted that Xbox 360 has also become a powerful application for high-definition television, adding that nine out of 10 Xbox 360 owners currently own or intend to purchase a high-definition television set.* He announced that more than 50 new high-definition Xbox 360™ games will be available by June 2006.
Building on Xbox 360 leadership in high-definition experiences, the company announced plans to deliver a new Xbox 360 external HD DVD drive in 2006. The new drive will offer millions of Xbox 360 owners the ability to easily enjoy HD DVD movies and will provide consumers with even more choices for experiencing high-definition content, in either physical or digital form.

Using Xbox 360 and the Xbox Live® service today, consumers are already able to access high-definition entertainment such as Xbox Live Arcade titles, game demos and high-definition movie trailers. Consumers can also use their Xbox 360 system to access high-definition television and movies from their Windows XP-based Media Center PC.

Gates’ keynote also showcased the momentum behind Xbox Live, announcing that more than half of all Xbox 360 owners are already connected to the online games and entertainment service, which boasts a worldwide community of more than 2 million members. He demonstrated Electronic Arts Inc.’s forthcoming EA SPORTS™ “Fight Night Round 3,” scheduled to be available in February 2006, and announced that a free, playable high-definition demo of the game is now available at the Xbox Live Marketplace, a one-stop digital download center where consumers can access high-definition games, music and movie content from leading industry partners.

Staying Connected With Powerful Windows Mobile-Based Devices

Gates highlighted the Treo 700w, an innovative new device that brings Palm Inc.’s celebrated ease of use to the Windows Mobile® platform. The Treo 700w, available exclusively on the Verizon Wireless network, combines a great mobile phone with easy access to wireless
e-mail and business applications, giving professionals more ways to stay connected while on the go. The Treo 700w is available at retail Jan. 5.

The keynote also included a demonstration of how future technologies will transform the way people manage information in the office or on the go, communicate with
co-workers in richer and more immersive ways, and be more productive wherever they are.

Continuing his keynote, Gates showcased Microsoft’s advancements in mobile entertainment by unveiling next-generation Windows Mobile-based Portable Media Centers from Toshiba Corp., Tatung Co. and LG Electronics. The new devices, scheduled to be available this year, will feature extensive battery life, support for new high-resolution and widescreen (16:9) displays, direct audio/video recording, gaming, FM tuners and direct connections to digital cameras.

Gates’ keynote address highlighted a number of new alliances that use Microsoft software to provide broader and richer content to consumers. He showed Starz Entertainment Group’s new Vongo video download service, which offers more choices and great experiences for people using Windows Mobile-based devices. Vongo subscribers will enjoy unlimited access to more than 1,000 first-run movies and video selections as well as the streaming Starz TV channel.

Microsoft announced a broad agreement with DIRECTV Inc. that will open up new ways for consumers to enjoy their digital media in the networked home and on portable devices. Microsoft and DIRECTV will work together to enable digital content to flow between Windows-based PCs, DIRECTV devices, PlaysForSure™-based portable media devices and Xbox 360.

It was also announced that Microsoft and British Sky Broadcasting (Sky), the leading pay-TV provider in the U.K. and Ireland, plans to create a Windows Media Center version of Sky’s forthcoming broadband content service, Sky by broadband. The service will enable millions of Sky TV customers to access video content from their PC, including hundreds of movies and sports clips.

Windows Live Services Deliver Rich, Seamless Experiences

In the area of software services, Gates previewed new Windows Live™ offerings, designed to bring together relationships, information and interests that are important to people on PCs and a wide range of devices. He unveiled two new telephones from Royal Philips Electronics and Uniden America Corp., designed to work with the voice communications capabilities in the upcoming Windows Live Messenger, the soon-to-be-released successor to MSN® Messenger, which has more than 200 million active accounts around the world. The new phones will allow consumers to make calls from a cordless handset connected to both the Windows Live Messenger service and public telephone networks. The Philips VOIP433 Dual Phone will debut in Europe, Asia Pacific and Latin America in 2006. The Uniden WIN 1200 Digital Cordless Phone will offer people another option for making calls over the Internet and will be available in North America in spring 2006.

Gates also previewed forthcoming services for Windows Live and Windows Vista that will help people find and manage their entertainment on the Windows-based Media Center PC or Microsoft TV IPTV Edition-powered set-top box from almost anywhere in the world. TV gadgets on Live.com will enable people to find, manage and share personalized TV recommendations as well as remotely schedule recordings on their Media Center PCs.

Gates concluded his keynote address by looking back on the great momentum of 2005 in consumer technologies and outlining key trends that will shape future innovation in the consumer electronics industry.

“The incredible momentum around all these new products and services shows that the digital lifestyle has truly gone mainstream this year,” Gates said. “Now it’s time to bring together the devices, software and services in people’s lives and take all these experiences to the next level.”

Nite_Moogle

01-04-2006, 06:53 PM

An external drive? What the hell? No external add-on peripheral for any console has ever been successful...

xanthome

01-04-2006, 06:54 PM

Microsoft has already screwed the pooch by making the HD optional, an HD-DVD isn't going to fix anything. Everyone has to develop for the lowest common denominator which is no HD and no HD-DVD.

bapenguin

01-04-2006, 06:55 PM

Heretic Machine

01-04-2006, 06:55 PM

...It's an external drive? Is there even an advantage to having it hook up to the 360 rather than simply building it to be stand-alone?

Murmillo

01-04-2006, 06:56 PM

I wonder.. I know the logic is that HD-DVD "won't" be used for games, but if they were. I am seeing Special HD editions of games, where the 'game' (engine and textures) will be on the DVD, while music, voice work and HD cut-sceens/movies on the HD-DVD.

And the game that I could see seriously pushing this, if Microsoft plays thier cards right, is the next installment of GTA.

Talanvor

01-04-2006, 06:56 PM

Maybe it'll have that same "inhale" design, to keep your 360 company.

Neosho

01-04-2006, 06:57 PM

Ok, correct me if i'm wrong, but considering i didn't notice any other comment on this in the news article...is the drive going to be USB?

Wouldn't that suck for watching movies and such?

Please though, correct me if there's a super secret Xbox360 Ninja Speed Connector that i don't know about.

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

01-04-2006, 06:57 PM

What in God's name is the point? Is using the 360 as a hub for an HD DVD player going to be that much more convenient than plugging it directly into the TV or A/V receiver? I guess people will go for it if a) they already own a 360 and b) it's cheaper than a stand-alone HD DVD player, but there's no reason it would be cheaper unless Microsoft is willing to put out another loss-making piece of hardware.

bapenguin

01-04-2006, 07:00 PM

Overbyte77

01-04-2006, 07:02 PM

It should be alot cheaper since it'll use the 360 to render the picture rather than using the player itself.

Yeti2005

01-04-2006, 07:03 PM

I really didn't think this would happen. I thought MS's idea was for you to have a digital copy of an HD movie on your PC and then stream it to the PC (kinda like a movie server). Blu-Ray was not going to allow you to make a digital DRM'ed copy on your PC which is one reason MS said they didn't fully support it.

Stryfe01

01-04-2006, 07:08 PM

Heretic Machine

01-04-2006, 07:11 PM

well they just helped me buy a ps3 and made me support blu-ray. before i was planning on buying a 360, and i still will, but now intead of buying a standalone blu-ray player, ill get a ps3 since it will be cheaper initially and forget hd-dvd. MS you are making some very SEGA like buisness decisions....

I don't get your logic... An optional periphreal to allow a new feature for the 360 is going to be released, and somehow this pushes you into the arms of Sony? I'm thinking you probably weren't getting a 360 to begin with.

Steele Johnson

01-04-2006, 07:14 PM

Everlost_MI

01-04-2006, 07:18 PM

I'm not going to even bother with this, it makes no sense. Buying a stand-alone DVD unit is your best bet because mostly all of them will have chips that support both Blu-ray and HD DVDs. I don't want to be limited to one or the other for when I purchase or rent movies.

I agree with you, especially since the drive is just going to play movies. Now if there were specific games like the next GTA title, as Murmillo suggested, that required or would make a significant difference in game play then I might bite and snag one. Otherwise, thanks but no thanks.

Pumped'Up

01-04-2006, 07:21 PM

The HD-DVD would be for movies only.
Why bother with this (clunky) external add-on when you can, probably for the same price, get a real HD player with better picture output quality, supporting perhaps both bluray and hd-dvd?

Yet another design flaw by Microsoft thats been overlooked by the premature release of the 360..

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

01-04-2006, 07:27 PM

Buying a stand-alone DVD unit is your best bet because mostly all of them will have chips that support both Blu-ray and HD DVDs.

Maybe in a couple of years, but every stand-alone player announced so far only supports one format or the other. Samsung is the only company that's even mentioned a hybrid player and they retracted that almost as soon as it was mentioned (the only players they've announced so far are Blu-ray-only). Hybrid players or no, I don't see this format war ending in any other way except the complete destruction of one format -- SACD and DVD-Audio co-exist because some content providers only support one format and some only support the other, but in the case of Blu-ray vs. HD DVD, one side has a huge advantage over the other so far as studio support is concerned and I honestly don't see that being overcome.

AspectVoid

01-04-2006, 07:30 PM

I don't get your logic... An optional periphreal to allow a new feature for the 360 is going to be released, and somehow this pushes you into the arms of Sony? I'm thinking you probably weren't getting a 360 to begin with.

Some people have things like price and space to consider. Is it cheaper to buy a PS3 and get your HD movies covered or is it cheaper to buy a 360 and a stand alone player or a 360 and the HD addon? Do you have room to place both a 360 and the addon or are you short of space and thus can only fit one console in there? Things like that. Most likely, he was going to go with whatever console was cheapest while also being able to provide HD movies. In this case, for now most likely the PS3 will be cheaper (though with no price announced yet, no one can say for sure).

AbinSur

01-04-2006, 07:30 PM

Why bother with this (clunky) external add-on when you can, probably for the same price, get a real HD player with better picture output quality, supporting perhaps both bluray and hd-dvd?

Yet another design flaw by Microsoft thats been overlooked by the premature release of the 360..

If I had to guess, I'd say this is a stopgap measure. In 6-7 months, we'll see 360's shipping with HD-DVD drives built in, but still "for movies only".

Trini456

01-04-2006, 07:34 PM

I am truely disappointed with the new of an add on... The logic is to kwwp cost down. Put to have an addtional piece to my already bloated entertainment center is crazy. They should have thought of a way to swap out the drive... Maybe im just talking non-sense but I would have pony'ed up some more dough if the system would have included the damn drive. No format won the war yet but it seem sthat MS know who they are backing all the way. Imagine what you would have coming out all of the USB ports in a few years.. the camera ..HD Drive and z power glove (JK).

I am pissed man.

Trini456

01-04-2006, 07:36 PM

If I had to guess, I'd say this is a stopgap measure. In 6-7 months, we'll see 360's shipping with HD-DVD drives built in, but still "for movies only".

You are probably correct...But I take it as a direct slap in the face. Bill slapped me in the face. They better not come out with another 360.

Demo_Boy

01-04-2006, 07:40 PM

This makes no sense unless the drive is like half the price of a hdvd player. if so then gr8, but i dont see it. really this just seems retarded. what is the next drive add on they are releasing? a dvd plug in drive that wont scratch your game disks?

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

01-04-2006, 07:43 PM

I think the external drive is a way of hedging their bets. If they replaced the existing 360 with a new HD DVD-equipped model and that HD DVD drive could only play movies (in other words, no HD DVD games on the 360, which is necessary to avoid splitting the market), it would look pretty stupid if HD DVD stumbles out of the gate and is dead within a year or two. By releasing an external drive first they can bide their time and see how the format fares. If it does well they can release an all-in-one model later on; if it tanks they'll have some angry customers who bought a now-unsupported external add-on, but at least they won't have an obsolete variation of the 360 hardware floating around out there.

bboy

01-04-2006, 07:45 PM

Why the heck would anyone buy the external HD-DVD player for the 360 when they can get a stand alone HD-DVD/BluRay player?

When the 360 eventually bites the dust and is replaced with the Xbox3 where will your external 360 HD-DVD drive be? In the trashbin or on ebay for $20.

Do NOT buy this afterthought of a mess....if you are going to buy something that supports these unnecessary formats get one from the likes of LG or a similar company that will have standalone products that support BOTH formats (HD-DVD and BluRay). What a steaming pile of crap Bill is trying to hoist upon us....ugh

bobbler

01-04-2006, 07:45 PM

Hilarious.

Heretic Machine

01-04-2006, 08:14 PM

Balthasar

01-04-2006, 08:14 PM

Heretic Machine

01-04-2006, 08:18 PM

Some people have things like price and space to consider. Is it cheaper to buy a PS3 and get your HD movies covered or is it cheaper to buy a 360 and a stand alone player or a 360 and the HD addon? Do you have room to place both a 360 and the addon or are you short of space and thus can only fit one console in there? Things like that. Most likely, he was going to go with whatever console was cheapest while also being able to provide HD movies. In this case, for now most likely the PS3 will be cheaper (though with no price announced yet, no one can say for sure).

And yet, we have no idea about whether you'll be able to actually buy a new movie for either format in two years. If "space" is that much of an issue for you, chances are you don't need to be investing in unstable formats prematurally anyway.

Besides that, I'm betting that this add-on will be about the size of the Revolution. Size won't be a concern. Still a stupid idea though.

ruprect

01-04-2006, 08:21 PM

If its significantly cheaper than a standalone, I'd get it. Don't know that I take it as a slap in the face. Thats a bit dramatic.

Any HD-DVD player equiped 360 would be more expensive then one with a standard DVD.

How about this: What if when Sony releases the PS3 at a price around $600, and Microsoft releases a HD-DVD equiped 360 at the same price, at the same time.

If HD-movie capability is a purchasing factor, and both have good games, wouldn't that even the playing field somewhat for new buyers?

Balthasar

01-04-2006, 08:22 PM

Both formats are worthless anyway. They aren't going to garner enough support from regular people, and are just easy cash-ins on early adopters to hold these companies over until the real next-gen format shows up in five or ten years.

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are as next gen from DVD as DVD was from VHS. You may not like the degree to which it improves on the old format, but that doesn't change anything.

Reanimated

01-04-2006, 08:24 PM

Maybe I'll buy one if it's cheaper than the stand-alone HDDVD players, since I was considering maybe buying one of the stand-alones.

Paranoia

01-04-2006, 08:32 PM

At least if I play movies on external drive I have less to worry about wearing down my console drive.

frederec

01-04-2006, 08:34 PM

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are as next gen from DVD as DVD was from VHS. You may not like the degree to which it improves on the old format, but that doesn't change anything.

I disagree. Sure you can hold more space than DVDs, but the main draw of DVDs over VHS was just like CD over tape: no more degredation over time. A VHS tape quickly (relativly) loses quality and becomes unwatchable. Copies of VHS tapes get significantly worse with each generation. These issues don't exist at all, or at least nearly to the extent before with DVD.

Most of the movies my wife or I have enjoyed on VHS we'll eventually get on DVD (or some disc format). However, I doubt we'll feel the need to replace our current DVD collection with whatever new format comes out. Get new movies in the new format, sure, but not replace the old ones.

nate5881

01-04-2006, 08:56 PM

I think there is another big piece of news here that is getting missed. The agreement with DirectTV could be huge. I have personally been waiting quite some time for a good content provider for my PlayForSure portable media center. If this deal provides me with a good content source this will make my PMC much much more valuable to me.

Needless to say, this is quite exciting to me.

EternalGamer

01-04-2006, 08:58 PM

We know nothing about the look or price of this drive nor do we really know which high density media will become standard, yet the majority of the people in this thread have already dismissed this as a viable proposition. Leave it to EA readers...

Dan

Heretic Machine

01-04-2006, 08:59 PM

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are as next gen from DVD as DVD was from VHS. You may not like the degree to which it improves on the old format, but that doesn't change anything.

Are they as next-gen as Laser Disc was from VHS?

SMES

01-04-2006, 09:09 PM

The most relevant responses on this matter have already been made. If it's cheaper than stand alone HD-DVD players, then maybe it can work.

I will not be buying one unless there is some major incentive that has not been discussed. Some feature besides simple playback.

The entire next gen disc format thing has a huge uphill battle when it comes to marketing. The early adopters and hardcore types such as post on EvAv are not the ones who will affect the direction these formats take.

Maybe I'm out of touch, but when I talk to people I know, I do not get the same sense of anticipation and interest in BluRay/HD-DVD as I did back in 2000 with DVD.

The jump to DVD was a major marketing push, and I suppose it's possible the same will happen with the new formats- I'm just saying I'm skeptical. From my position it seems like DVD did a lot of things right and these new formats are doing a lot of things wrong.

If this add on 360 player is what it seems to be, a simple playback drive, then it's asinine. There has to be more to it, or else Microsoft is making a serious mistake. Transitioning to an all-HD X360 would cause a big alienation problem as well.

I just don't get what they're trying to accomplish with all this.

Chalex

01-04-2006, 09:10 PM

Microsoft has officially made a perhipial to compete with the:

32X
Jaguar CD
64 DD
Dreamcast Zip drive
Playstation 2 Harddrive
Gamecube dial-up adaptor
Gameboy e-Reader

for the title of most worthless/overpriced/unnecessary/underutilized hardware ever!

I applaud whoever is making these decisions at Microsoft, truly they are pissing away all credibility the original Xbox tried so hard to gain last generation at an unfathomable rate.

bobbler

01-04-2006, 09:25 PM

Are they as next-gen as Laser Disc was from VHS?

Considering Laser disc wasn't much of an upgrade from vhs (hell, DVD isn't much either -- it offered convenience, that's about it), I'd have to say they are much more. The reason for BR/HD-dvd is the resolution jump and who knows what else (both BD-J and iHD offer quite a bit more than what was possible on DVDs -- not sure how it'll be used though).

480p vs 1080p (720p/1080i for HD-DVD output at the moment though, it seems -- BR seems to be set to 1080p for output). It's quite a jump.

It may not be a matter of wanting to replace your entire collection in it, but if you get a player with PS3 (or this silly addon) then I don't see why you wouldn't want to start picking up movies for it, especially if you have an HDTV. And then when players start getting dirt cheap there isn't a reason not to pick one up.

I don't quite understand the resistance to upgrading to a format that actually takes advantage of the TVs that are becoming standard. This is the real "next gen" format -- more space from a format like HVD or whatever comes next isn't going to do much good for movies, considering BR/HD-DVD can both hold 1080p and that's the top consumer resolution we'll be seeing for probably another 10 years (maybe longer -- most people couldn't see a difference between 1080p and a 4k display, so we may not see it for quite a bit longer). The resistance on these forums is like what you'd see from a bunch of crotchety old people that don't like change.

Chalex

01-04-2006, 09:27 PM

On a side note, a 360 with the HD-DVD will be inherently inferior to a stand-alone player as all stand-alone players will wupport the formats highest resolution (1080p) while the 360 is only capable of displaying it in 720p or 1080i.

A moot point to all but the super-rich, but really, who tends to buy these things in the first place?

Atorak

01-04-2006, 09:30 PM

I disagree. Sure you can hold more space than DVDs, but the main draw of DVDs over VHS was just like CD over tape: no more degredation over time. A VHS tape quickly (relativly) loses quality and becomes unwatchable. Copies of VHS tapes get significantly worse with each generation. These issues don't exist at all, or at least nearly to the extent before with DVD.

Most of the movies my wife or I have enjoyed on VHS we'll eventually get on DVD (or some disc format). However, I doubt we'll feel the need to replace our current DVD collection with whatever new format comes out. Get new movies in the new format, sure, but not replace the old ones.

Actually, there IS degredation over time, albeit it's pretty slow. 5-10 years for burned CD-Rs, DVD-Rs, and DVD+Rs, and less for the rewriteable versions. Basically, the longer the time you have the disks, the more likely they are to start showing errors.

http://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/pub121/sec4.html

*shrugs* I think the HD-DVD player is pretty cool, I guess. Obviously, I think it is a LITTLE early to start bashing Microsoft, since their product isn't even close to market at this point. Everything is speculation.

Will I pick one up? All depends on the market at the time. What is the price of Microsoft's HD-DVD addon for the 360? Can it be run as a standalone player (doubtful)? Does its quality compare to that of other manufacturers? What is the price of the PS3? What types of movies come in Blu-Ray and which come in HD-DVD? Etc...

SMES

01-04-2006, 09:37 PM

I don't quite understand the resistance to upgrading to a format that actually takes advantage of the TVs that are becoming standard.

I don't think it's a resistance to the upgrade itself. That's not what I'm resistant to. I'm simply hesitant about the way this format transition is manifesting itself. With DVD we had a uniform format that was transitioned to quickly, driven by both the major videogame consoles and the entire consumer electronics industry.

This time we have Microsoft "hedging their bets" and Sony working as hard as they can to standardize and streamline production on a competing format by the time the PS3 comes out. Meanwhile, the major studios and CE companies either are "taking sides" or "hedging bets" as well.

Furthermore, as has been pointed out it is true that many gamers have or intend to buy HD sets soon, but I'm not "feeling" the general population's interest in these new formats. A lot of people want HD sets, but most people don't have Xbox360's sitting around whispering in their ear.

It just isn't going to be as smooth as the move to DVD was. The resistance you are seeing I think is more like hesitancy, that's all.

Atorak

01-04-2006, 09:38 PM

motor

01-04-2006, 09:40 PM

Wow, I'm really speechless. I was really planning on getting a 360 in March (my birthday), but this external drive really makes me think that they will have a 360 HD-DVD edition in a few months after that, I might just have to wait. I don't want an external drive to my 360, I want one piece of hardware. I don't think I'm alone in this mentality, and I think it is going to really cut into sales as more people wait for the HD-DVD edition of the 360.

Borys

01-04-2006, 09:42 PM

Zeal

01-04-2006, 09:43 PM

Microsoft just shot 360 in the head.

Chalex

01-04-2006, 09:50 PM

PS: Unless movies of the future are originally recorded in 1080p30 or 1080p60 (1920x1080 with either 30 or 60fps), the Blu-Ray will still be forced to show a film/movie that was upconverted to said format by the studio. It won't be a true 1080p source, which will hold true for any movie today and any movie in the past.

Sure, you can watch a movie in HD on your cable box, which is either 720p or 1080i, but does it look any better than the DVD that is running at 480p? I haven't been able to tell the difference... :)

http://www.vtpcorp.com/htm/vidfilm.htm

What is the spatial resolution of 35mm Motion Picture film?
The spatial resolution of the active area of standard 35mm Motion Picture Camera Color Negative was, prior to Kodak's introduction of Vision stock, measured as 80 line pairs per millimeter, or approximately 167 pixels per millimeter in any direction. The horizontal and vertical pixel count depend upon the camera aperture (e.g., there is no increase in horizontal pixel count due to anamorphic lens image compression onto the camera negative). 35mm film negative can easily be rated at as high a resolution as 4096x2987 for Academy Aperture. The "2K" level is considered half resolution of 2048x1493 for Academy Aperture. The visual effects industry has been working at the "2K" level for years, usually with less vertical resolution due to the masked horizontal aspect ratios the filmmakers have chosen of 1.85 or larger (a horizontal rectangle). Because of film to film generation loss, poor projection quality (from such factors as simple as turning up the lamp brightness on the projectors), and forced limited print contrast range of from 6 to 8 stops, the 1920x1080 8 or 10 bit capabilities of high definition video converted to 35mm print film can be indistinguishable and thus quite useful for mainstream filmmakers who still want a feature film print release.

Unless the studios are doing insanely terrible jobs converting then there should be a massive difference.

From later in that link:

A single frame of 35mm motion picture film scanned full Academy Aperture at half resolution 2048x1556 with 13 bit luminance values and 10 bit log color (CMYK) would represent a data file of approximately 11 Megabytes

Chalex

01-04-2006, 09:53 PM

Borys

01-04-2006, 09:55 PM

To sum up my feelings:

"If it plays games they're fucked. If it doesn't play games it's pointless."

It'll still sell a boatloads with Halo: The Movie bundled in.

People are morons.

Balthasar

01-04-2006, 09:58 PM

GWhite

01-04-2006, 10:00 PM

Why the hell are people pissed about this, its a flipping peripheral. It in no way affects the ability of the system to play games.

Also the the whole Microsoft versus Sony media format war seems vastly overblown. Microsoft prefers HDDVD due to the whole managed copy thing, but they are not betting the farm on HDDVD. Microsoft is not a hardware or media company, so formats don't matter as much to them.

Instead they may be betting on DRM and internet content delivery. Which is a bit premature...

Jeeze, something just occured to me, the Xbox360 is a damn thin-client.

SMES

01-04-2006, 10:03 PM

Hahaha, this isn't even Dreamcast 2 folks, this is SEGA CD 2.

http://www.ga-forum.com/showpost.php?p=2532443&postcount=69

Unbelievable.

The Premium Pack is the Retard Pack now.

I can't wait for you Sony haters to spin this positively now.

You buy PS3 you get the FULL package, you buy 360 you get nothing, haha, that made my day.

My instinct is to agree with you, and I own a 360 and was not planning to buy a PS3. In fact, I'm still not planning to buy a PS3. The teeter-totter effect where allegance to one side goes down as the other side goes up is what makes a fanboy.

In this case I am disgusted by Microsoft for market dividing, peripheral-selling, hedge betting.

I'm also disgusted with Sony for unclear direction, nonexistant online plans, and hardware obsucred by jargon.

I'm mad at Nintendo for... well, actually Nintendo hasn't done much to make me mad at them lately. It would be cool if they have the entire Nintendo back catalog downloadable for free, but they're probably going to charge $10 a pop for games like Mario 3, so I'm mad at them for that ;)

SMES

01-04-2006, 10:07 PM

Jeeze, something just occured to me, the Xbox360 is a damn thin-client.

I'm not happy with the peripheral, but calling it a thin client is a little too much I think. Even the core unit is a solid next gen platform. But multiple SKUs were a bad idea, and instilling in a consumer a feeling of uncertainty about the possible obsolecense of their purchase is a VERY bad idea.

Someone wants a 360. They hear about this, and now they decide to wait and see. I was wondering when Peter Moore's marketing genius would strike.

bobbler

01-04-2006, 10:18 PM

PS: Unless movies of the future are originally recorded in 1080p30 or 1080p60 (1920x1080 with either 30 or 60fps), the Blu-Ray will still be forced to show a film/movie that was upconverted to said format by the studio. It won't be a true 1080p source, which will hold true for any movie today and any movie in the past.

Sure, you can watch a movie in HD on your cable box, which is either 720p or 1080i, but does it look any better than the DVD that is running at 480p? I haven't been able to tell the difference... :)

BR and HD-DVD videos are all encoded at 1080p24 (24fps like any standard movie) -- the HD-DVD players so far are 720p/1080i, but the source material on the disc should 1080p (just to cover my ass, so nobody goes and finds that the HD-DVD players output 720p/1080i). Film is a rather undefined resolution (since your resolution is essentially the same as what you get on a normal film camera -- quite high, easily over the 4k res), and stuff that isn't on Film is shot at at least 2k res.

I'd say that judging HD by ota/cable quality HD is a rather poor choice -- all those channels are highly starved for bandwidth, since each channel only has so much to work with (thus, the bitrate is barely better than DVD, and a good upscaling DVD player can probably match it). BR/HD has quite a bit more bandwidth to play with (around ~35mbit/s to play with for BR, and something like ~21mbit/s to play with -- didn't do the math, but it should be pretty close to that), with formats like H.264/VC-1 you can get high quality 1080p with something like 15mbit (and then you have sound which takes up a few mbit)... stuff you see on cable/ota is a fraction of that.

XenonCJ

01-04-2006, 10:21 PM

Well, on the upside, having the HDDVD drive as part of the Xbox360 WILL save\keep-free a video input on your TV or receiver...

That way you can get a PS3 too and have Blu-Ray also ahahahaha

...man the world is fucking dumb.

Balthasar

01-04-2006, 10:21 PM

I don't think it's a resistance to the upgrade itself. That's not what I'm resistant to. I'm simply hesitant about the way this format transition is manifesting itself. With DVD we had a uniform format that was transitioned to quickly, driven by both the major videogame consoles and the entire consumer electronics industry.

What? The transition to DVD was neither smooth nor quick. DVD's were introduced in 1996, but didn't make any significant strides until at least 2000. Even then, there wasn't anything representitive of "mass penetration" at that time. According to wikipedia, DVD rentals didn't even exceed VHS rentals until 2003. What is fast about that? The reason some people are getting pissed is precisely because it took so long (and with a lot of money for those with large VHS collections) to get to where we are now, to only turn around and release another format so soon. It's a lot nicer to think that the "real next-gen" format won't come for another 5-10 years, which makes buying two different versions of the LOTR trillogy not feel like such a waste of money in the face of impending higher-res/content loaded versions.

SMES

01-04-2006, 10:37 PM

What? The transition to DVD was neither smooth nor quick. DVD's were introduced in 1996, but didn't make any significant strides until at least 2000...

Ok, fair enough, quick was inacurate. But I would argue that it was smoother. It does seem to be a different process, though. DVD may have been "out" in 1996, but, much like any new technology, it was the early adopters who were pushing most sales. The true birth of DVD was in 2000 with mainstream adoption.

This time it's the reverse in some ways. It seems like manufacturers (MS/Sony) are trying to promote mainstream acceptance without the maturation process DVD went through between 96 and 2000. Only this time there is another financial hardship, a new TV, which compounds the issue.

I concede that I worded what I said poorly. All I was trying to indicate was that there seems to be more complicated factors this time around, and a sort of rush due to the HD vs BR competition.

Nessus

01-04-2006, 10:38 PM

This does not influence my decision at all.

I have no interest in HDTV. I've seen HD sets in action and yes they have a higher resolution but the difference was nowhere near what I was lead to expect by the way people describe it.

In fact until they get the contrast issue sorted out I actually prefer standard definition sets. I loathe the high contrast I've seen on most HDTVs. Like 50% of the lower end of the spectrum is consumed by black. I don't understand how they can make high contrast a selling point, it's almost as if they are trying to cover up a design flaw. I'm hoping future HDTV sets will remedy this.

Beyond all that I really don't give a shit what format either console plays. This current generation I felt there were enough exclusives to justify owning all 3 consoles. This upcoming gen after seeing all the previously exclusive franchises I was interested in go multiplatform I expect I'll get a Rev and either a PS3 or a 360. I'll wait and see which one ends up being the better of the two and go with that. And by then hopefully we'll have seen a price cut or two.

Balthasar

01-04-2006, 10:47 PM

This time it's the reverse in some ways. It seems like manufacturers (MS/Sony) are trying to promote mainstream acceptance without the maturation process DVD went through between 96 and 2000. Only this time there is another financial hardship, a new TV, which compounds the issue.

I concede that I worded what I said poorly. All I was trying to indicate was that there seems to be more complicated factors this time around, and a sort of rush due to the HD vs BR competition.

I think that the only thing that complicates the next-gen formats is the fact that there are two of them (though it's looking like the support for Blu-ray will likely flatten the HD-DVD competition in the livingroom). DVD adoption didn't really pick up until studios forced consumers to adopt the new format. That it took until 2003 for DVD rentals to top VHS rentals--with all DVDs were offering over VHS at that time--really says it all. Consumers, specifically American consumers, are very, very slow to adopt new technology. HDTV becoming a hard standard in 2009 actually helps BR/HD-DVD because it will make it easier for studios to force a format change again, the way they did with DVD.

SMES

01-04-2006, 10:50 PM

PS- Also, yes, the bulk of complaints are people who just feel mad about the money spent on DVDs thus far. But I think that if there was a unified format, inexpensive, standardized format television sets, and a clear set of cool new product features and incentives, that this format transition would go much more smoothly.

It's the process of having multiple resolutions, the uncertainty of formats, the price, and all the normal kinks of a new product that really hurts.

If you were one of the people who paid $1000+ in 1996 for a DVD player and anguished over it's mainstream acceptance for four years, I can understand how the DVD transition would not have seemed smooth or quick.

But it's my opinion that the public perception of the DVD transition was smooth and quick.

SMES

01-04-2006, 10:57 PM

Consumers, specifically American consumers, are very, very slow to adopt new technology. HDTV becoming a hard standard in 2009 actually helps BR/HD-DVD because it will make it easier for studios to force a format change again, the way they did with DVD.

Yup, I totally agree. And if I had to guess, I actually think that HD adoption will continue to be a slow, slow transition until 2009. Despite what MS and Sony's marketing departments would like us to think, I don't think that the "HD Era" will be here until the public is forced to accept it.

Heck I still have a VCR. All these new formats do to me is mean that I will have Blu Ray and HD Discs stacked with my DVDs and VHS tapes. The mass transition to HD will be slow.

Vandenh

01-04-2006, 11:11 PM

Call me in 5 years when I care about HD-DVD/Bluray. By that time my PC will probably serve up all my movies.

This is just a political announcment from MS to support HD-DVD... wanne bet they won't even make this stand alone thing.

DoubleUranium

01-04-2006, 11:35 PM

Exactly. Enjoy your HD but heavily DRM crippled optical format. I'm holding out for straight digital downloads and no more physical media. If I can get a 400gb for < $150 in 2005 I bet I can get 3tb for $150 in 2010.

Cyrano

01-05-2006, 12:23 AM

Maybe Microsoft should release a version of the 360 with an HD-DVD drive built in, then have four versions of each game: hard drive/DVD, hard drive/HD-DVD, no hard drive/DVD and no hard drive/HD-DVD. That's about the only way Peter Moore and Sega -- oops, I mean Microsoft -- could look sillier than they do now.

score

01-05-2006, 01:58 AM

This must be Microsofts reaction to Sonys Phil Harrison claiming that the Xbox 360 is not a true High Definition device because it doesn't have a next-gen DVD standard.

Take that Phil!

bapenguin

01-05-2006, 04:31 AM

On a side note, a 360 with the HD-DVD will be inherently inferior to a stand-alone player as all stand-alone players will wupport the formats highest resolution (1080p) while the 360 is only capable of displaying it in 720p or 1080i.

They never said the 360 isn't capable of displaying 1080p, they simply said it's not right now. Just like the whole HDMI issue. Does that mean anything? Not really. But the possibility is still there...just like the HD-DVD thing was.

The reason they aren't going to rebundle and repackage the 360 with the HD-DVD drive is simple, the people that would be the early adopters of HD-DVD are also the early adopters of the 360. They would be screwing them over.

Things this announcement is not:
1) An answer to the storage "problem" of DVD-9, it was never intended to be
2) A Sega CD type peripheral - it's not targeted for games...it's for movies only. It's a convenience device only for a possible cheap upgrade path to watch HD-DVD movies. (no price set yet, can't be overpriced if there's no price Pump'd Up.
3) This in no way HURTS the XBox 360 Borys. It's an optional component for MOVIES, it does not change or affect the gaming aspects of the system at all.

Things this announcement is:
1) Pointless. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are a waste of time and will never amount to anything for quite some time if ever. Like it was mentioned before, DVDs came out in 1996 (I bought my first one in 1997), and it wasn't until 2000 or so till they started to become popular. 4 years from now we should be sitting 2 years away from the end of the console cycle. On top of that, DVD's had a target audience of 100% of TV owners. Everyone could have one and reap the benefits. HD-DVD/Blu-Ray has a much smaller yet growing target audience.
2) A desperate attempt by Microsoft to say, "hey look, we have Hi-def movies too."

One other thing I just noticed. During the CES Keynote, Microsoft's Peter Moore announced the device: "The new drive will offer millions of Xbox 360 owners the ability to easily enjoy HD DVD movies and will provide consumers with even more choices for experiencing high-definition content, in either physical or digital form."

Could we be seeing Marketplace downloads after all?

crashedout

01-05-2006, 07:03 AM

This just fits into MS's goal of a media center. What would be the big deal if in a year they come with it, as long as the games are still DVD no big deal.

The DVD tranisition was not smooth, remember DIVX? I say it all comes to price, part of the reason DVD's took off around 2000 was the cheap machines. If these new formats drop their prices fast, and I don't see a reason why not, they could do very well..couple that with the studios slowing or even stopping DVD releases and you can force a sucessful format.

AS for you not seeing a difference on HD cable, a lot of those HD movies are upscanned DVD's, not HD originals. When it is recorded in HD it is a huge difference.

I do beleive this is the last physical media we will want, heck right now most of would prefer to be able to pay for a movie and use in on any device we own.

Steele Johnson

01-05-2006, 08:06 AM

Maybe I'll buy one if it's cheaper than the stand-alone HDDVD players, since I was considering maybe buying one of the stand-alones.

But then you won't be able to play Blu-Ray DVDs unless you buy yet another player. Makes no sense.

morose

01-05-2006, 08:12 AM

Oh no! They released a peripheral that some people may think is worthless! So... what... I guess they should have just included it in the original package then and made everyone pay for it? Not released it at all because some people might not want it, and those who do end up purchasing it might somehow be subliminally motivated to become babovores? It's an add-on. Decide if you want it, and if not... be glad it's an ADD-ON you don't HAVE to buy with the console. Come on folks, let's be reasonable.

Steele Johnson

01-05-2006, 08:16 AM

Sure, you can watch a movie in HD on your cable box, which is either 720p or 1080i, but does it look any better than the DVD that is running at 480p? I haven't been able to tell the difference... :)

You can definitely tell the difference between 1080i and 480p, and HD DVDs/Blu-ray will be recorded in 1080i.

A soon as Panasonic comes out with their HD DVD/Blu-ray player, I'll be first in line. ;)

Hellstorm

01-05-2006, 08:27 AM

PS3 and Rev FTW! :D

absolut taco

01-05-2006, 08:52 AM

You buy PS3 you get the FULL package, you buy 360 you get nothing, haha, that made my day.
Dear Trollys,

Since you have all the info (and Sony's limp cock in your mouth) can you please tell me:
a) how much will the PS3 cost?
b) when is it coming out?
And please don't say "when it's done". We're not talking Duke Nukem 4ever here.

Salesmunn

01-05-2006, 09:17 AM

Alright sooooo HD-ERA console that runs games on an SD-ERA media format?

Salesmunn

01-05-2006, 09:21 AM

Microsoft has already screwed the pooch by making the HD optional, an HD-DVD isn't going to fix anything. Everyone has to develop for the lowest common denominator which is no HD and no HD-DVD.

Microsoft screwed the pooch when they made multiple SKU's for the 360. Now every game has to be developed towards the core system without a hard drive. I hope Sony doesn't do the same this time around.

Sound familiar? PS2 HDD?

Pigeon

01-05-2006, 09:22 AM

Thanks bap, I wasn't expecting to find a reasonable point-of-view in here but am happy to see one.

Atorak

01-05-2006, 09:39 AM

You can definitely tell the difference between 1080i and 480p, and HD DVDs/Blu-ray will be recorded in 1080i.

A soon as Panasonic comes out with their HD DVD/Blu-ray player, I'll be first in line. ;)

If you have a good upconverting DVD player (like my Oppo which upconverts to 1080i) or a good TV (like my HP 1080p set), everything is upconverted to the same resolution anyway...1080i. I can't really tell the difference, although if one were to spend some cash on computer software and an HDMI cable to their TV, apparently you can make movies look sweet with some tweaking. :)

Although I was WAY off about film quality, I'll shutup now!

Balthasar

01-05-2006, 09:49 AM

If you have a good upconverting DVD player (like my Oppo which upconverts to 1080i) or a good TV (like my HP 1080p set), everything is upconverted to the same resolution anyway...1080i. I can't really tell the difference, although if one were to spend some cash on computer software and an HDMI cable to their TV, apparently you can make movies look sweet with some tweaking. :)

Upconverting 420p to 1080i is not so dissimilar from upsampling low bitrate mp3's to high bitrates. That is, it's never going to be as good as having the original at that higher quality. Upconverted 1080i is not the same as 1080i from the source.

Speed_D

01-05-2006, 10:49 AM

I bet I can get 3tb for $150 in 2010.
At the rate the U.S. government is going, by 2010, your hard drives will be encrypted and you will have to pay the entertainment industry a monthly access fee.

XenonCJ

01-05-2006, 11:00 AM

At the rate the U.S. government is going, by 2010, your hard drives will be encrypted and you will have to pay the entertainment industry a monthly access fee.And, by 2015 it will simply be deducted from your paycheck as part of your taxes... You know, to pay back the entertainment industry back for all the harm all of us have done to it in the past, and will do to it in the future via piracy and such...

Nath5000

01-05-2006, 11:06 AM

As an Xbox 360 owner with an HDTV who thought he was going to have to buy a new version of the 360 a year after launch to get HD-DVD compatibility for movies I think this is a great idea. I also agree that eventually they will release an HD-DVD version when it make sense from a pricing standpoint. I love the idea because it lets people who care (people who actually have HDTV) add on functionality that guaranteed 100% of non HD consumers could care less about. Also It means that my xbox wont be obsolete when HD-DVD comes out.

People have to realize that this isnt a game add on similar to the ones in the past which have failed. This is more of an accessory and will most probably have nothing to do with games whatsoever. Im thinking of it as a seperate HD-DVD player that is directly linked to the xbox 360 interface and thats fine with me!

As far as the next gen format war goes and my side, I'll definetly be getting a PS3 because I'm a Graphics-phile or holic or whatever the correct term (without having to use the term graphics whore). Ive read all the debates comparing the potential PS3 GPU and the 360 GPU and the processor comparisons and all of that and I can basically say that I will be getting a PS3. Just as I have not bought 1 UMD movie for my PSP, I probably wont buy one single Blu-Ray movie if its also available in HD-DVD ESPECIALLY if HD-DVD is the format that is the most (or the only?) compatible with WindowsXP and/or Windows Vista.

I love Sony as far as the playstation product line goes, but Ive always hated their arrogance in respect to sony pushing their own proprietary formats similar to UMD MEMORY STICK in all of their cameras (bleh), tvs, desktops laptops etc. I find it hard not to look at Blu-Ray and throw it in with UMD and Memory Stick and MiniDisk and push them all aside. UMD suits the PSP good just as Blu-Ray will eventually suit the PS3, however just as UMD wont become a dominant format for anyone other than sony for portable I dont think Blu-Ray will either. I think that the number one factor here is windows compatibility and the ability for windows users to copy their HD-DVD library to their PC legally to watch without needing a disk (although I dont know whats going to stop people from renting and copying blockbuster HD-DVDs to their PC Illegally). Although the flip side to that argument would be that DVD itself never really became the requirement and dominant format for software releases on the pc although its hard to buy a new PC without DVD anymore. So maybe windows compatibilty isnt that big of a push for HD-DVD after all, maybe it is?

Someone in here argued that people are slow to adopt new tech. That is irrelavent in this situation because Id assume that generally people who purchased HDTVs are the people who will most likely not be slow to adopt an HD- movie format when they can probably already tell a difference between HD coming from the xbox and their crappy 480p DVDs.

I have a samsung upconverting to 720p/1080i over DVI DVD player and I still cant wait for TRUE HD movies.

vallor

01-05-2006, 11:31 AM

I watched the Keynote last night and during one demonstration a standalone Toshiba HD-DVD player was used.

IIRC the player is slated for a march-ish release with an estimated price of $499.

If MS can provide me the additional ability to play movies on a system I already play games on as long as it costs less than $499 it is still a bargin.

The 360s core functionality (that is to play games) is not diminished in any way by the release of this device. In fact in the long run it will save me money unless you unreasonably think that MS should have eaten another couple hundred bucks on the 360 by trying to shove an HD-DVD player as standard hardware.

With the 360s release time table and the component costs it would have been very difficult to deliver the 360 with HDDVD short of a 3DO price tag. And we all know how well $700+ consoles sell.

Perhaps if MS had waited another year for the 360 (ala Sony) they could have released with the drive when the prices were more reasonable. Think about it this way: DVD will probably still be the standard media for this generation of movies and games anyway. Its going to take another few years for HD-DVD and Blu-ray to be widely adopted, especially while this "format war" is settled and/or hybrid players are available.

Once the real standard emerges and adoption becomes wide spread it'll be time for a new console anyway!

Murmillo

01-05-2006, 12:45 PM

No chance on any of those points. Too many reasons to list, though I'm sure several have been mentioned already.
I dont see why you couldn't have a 5.1+ streaming digital dolby sound track with HD cut sceens on the HD disk with the game on the DVD.

SMES

01-05-2006, 01:25 PM

I dont see why you couldn't have a 5.1+ streaming digital dolby sound track with HD cut sceens on the HD disk with the game on the DVD.

One thing that isn't clear to me is how fast is USB 2.0 exactly, and what data bandwith is required by HD-DVD streaming? I have read on a number of forums different data rates, everything from 85kbps to 150MBps. Some forums people are saying "there is no way it could work without buffering" and on others they are saying "USB 2.0 has plenty of speed"

Someone in the know: Which is it?

Steele Johnson

01-05-2006, 02:06 PM

If you have a good upconverting DVD player (like my Oppo which upconverts to 1080i) or a good TV (like my HP 1080p set), everything is upconverted to the same resolution anyway...1080i. I can't really tell the difference, although if one were to spend some cash on computer software and an HDMI cable to their TV, apparently you can make movies look sweet with some tweaking. :)

Although I was WAY off about film quality, I'll shutup now!

I disagree. You lose quality up-converting and down-converting. The best picture will be when you don't convert at all. So in your case, a 1080i/1080p signal is the best picture you can get. So if I were you, I'd be really looking forward to HD/BR DVDs since they'll offer 720p/1080i. if you really have the HP Pavilion MD5880n 58-inch, why would you settle for standard DVDs? Screw that! Take advantage of your awesome tv set! ;)

Twigz'N'Berries

01-05-2006, 02:36 PM

If you think about it, there will undoubtedly be a version of the 360 w/the HD built in (if HD-DVD does well). I'm pretty sure MS will stick by the DVD as their media though. If MS announced right now that there was a HD version that would hit shelves 6 months from now, they would seriously piss off all of the people who bought the system now and kill any future sales of the console in its current version.
Why do I say there is no doubt that there will be a version with it built in? The HD-DVD configuration is roughly equal to the DVD set...MS can fix the miniscule disk scratching incident and put the HD-DVD inside with minimal changes. If they are manufacturing the add-on, they will have everything they need to put it into the main unit itself. Personally, until there is a winner in the format war, MS would do well to keep itself on the fence. It can remake or add on peripherals to go HD-DVD or Blu-Ray at a later date.

MS kept itself flexible. Oh, and for the guy who said that MS coming out with an HD-DVD peripheral makes him decide to get a PS3...BS. You were either not going to buy a 360 or were already going to buy a PS3. This announcement logically shouldn't effect your decision either way.

Roman

01-05-2006, 03:03 PM

So they are releasing an OPTIONAL add-on that has NOTHING to do with the games, that only plays MOVIES in a format which may not catch on for YEARS, if at all. By the time any new format would be mainstream enough, it'll be time for a new console anyway.

So where exactly did MiKKKro$haft "screw the pooch?"

bapenguin

01-05-2006, 06:00 PM

One thing that isn't clear to me is how fast is USB 2.0 exactly, and what data bandwith is required by HD-DVD streaming? I have read on a number of forums different data rates, everything from 85kbps to 150MBps. Some forums people are saying "there is no way it could work without buffering" and on others they are saying "USB 2.0 has plenty of speed"

Someone in the know: Which is it?

According to the USB.org webpage it's 480MB/s.

Info Here (http://www.usb.org/about/usb_nomenclature)

SMES

01-05-2006, 06:15 PM

According to the USB.org webpage it's 480MB/s.

Info Here (http://www.usb.org/about/usb_nomenclature)

Ah, thanks Bap. Though another minor clarification, and something that probably is the source of much confusion, is that it's actually 480Mbps, not MBps.

That capital vs lowercase B has been the source of much confusion in the computer world. Even people who know the difference can accidentally type one when they mean the other, and people who don't know the difference are REALLY in trouble.

SMES

01-05-2006, 06:18 PM

I disagree. You lose quality up-converting and down-converting. The best picture will be when you don't convert at all.

Very true. However, don't discount the impressive results that quality de-interlacer/scaler technology can provide, such as the Faroudja tech in the Oppo player mentioned above. I just ordered one thanks to EvAv members reccomending it, and I have seen similar technology in action.

Again, true HD discs will provide a better and more "true" High Def image. I'm just saying that you should try the Oppo player with a DVI-DVI connection and see it to believe it.

Neosho

01-05-2006, 06:20 PM

yeah, and 480 mbps is roughly...60 MBps...which isn't all that much, to be streaming a 5.1 surround sound setup, as well as HD level video. Unless they're buffering the movie...lol.

Of course, as always, i'm sorta ignorant on all this video/highdef stuff...when it comes to thumb drives and such, i don't think i've seen higher than about 9MBps when it comes to transfer rates. Unless of course you've got them raided...but still.

bapenguin

01-05-2006, 06:59 PM

Balthasar

01-05-2006, 07:18 PM

Someone in here argued that people are slow to adopt new tech. That is irrelavent in this situation because Id assume that generally people who purchased HDTVs are the people who will most likely not be slow to adopt an HD- movie format when they can probably already tell a difference between HD coming from the xbox and their crappy 480p DVDs.

My point wasn't that slow adoption would be a hinderance to BD or HD-DVD, but that it is a common occurance. People keep arguing that it could be 5 years before BD takes over the market like that means something. Do you know the MPEG-3 format was developed in 1991? Dude, we're just plain fucking slow. MP3 isn't even a superior compression format and it's still far and away the most widely used of the lossy formats.

I dont see why you couldn't have a 5.1+ streaming digital dolby sound track with HD cut sceens on the HD disk with the game on the DVD.

Did you ever stop to think about the logistics of that? You want a game developer like RockStar, who are big on creating as seamless an environment as possible, to unnaturally divide content that requires heavy programming for synching on separate discs? It's not just unprecedented, it sounds like a programming nightmare. Exactly what would cue up incidental sounds, like a pedestrian cursing at you for almost hitting them with your car or stray bullets from angry gang members whizzing by? I get maybe having one disc with movie content and one with the game content, but separating sound?

I don't know this with any certainty, but I imagine doing something like that would take up a ton of the 360's bandwidth. Would it even have enough to do that? And more importantly, why would Rockstar bother? They're not going to bend over backwards for #2 in the video game industry. The whole thing is just silly.

Murmillo

01-05-2006, 08:01 PM

Did you ever stop to think about the logistics of that? You want a game developer like RockStar, who are big on creating as seamless an environment as possible, to unnaturally divide content that requires heavy programming for synching on separate discs? It's not just unprecedented, it sounds like a programming nightmare. Exactly what would cue up incidental sounds, like a pedestrian cursing at you for almost hitting them with your car or stray bullets from angry gang members whizzing by? I get maybe having one disc with movie content and one with the game content, but separating sound?

I don't know this with any certainty, but I imagine doing something like that would take up a ton of the 360's bandwidth. Would it even have enough to do that? And more importantly, why would Rockstar bother? They're not going to bend over backwards for #2 in the video game industry. The whole thing is just silly.

So who says the sound is going to be loaded the moment its needed? Does any game do that? NO!. All the sounds the game knows its going to need is loaded into the sound buffer before you start playing, just as it its loaded from any other DVD. Maybe "sounds/voices" wouldn't work. But sound tracks and HD cut sceens would work.

I just used GTA as an example. Would it be better to ponder if I used Halo 3? I mean, bungie is all about Xbox/Microsoft. More realisiticly, it would be them.

Balthasar

01-05-2006, 08:31 PM

So who says the sound is going to be loaded the moment its needed? Does any game do that? NO!.

Does any game separate the sources of its immediate content? NO!

It's stupid to even discuss this further. There isn't even any benefit to it.

Murmillo

01-06-2006, 10:16 AM

Does any game separate the sources of its immediate content? NO!

It's stupid to even discuss this further. There isn't even any benefit to it.
You are one thick headed twit arn't you. While I agreed with you and said sound wouldn't work all that well, while music and cutsceens would, yet you still are prancing around about sound.

So you are saying there is no benefit of having a bonus HD cut sceens and higher fidility music on another disk?

Stryfe01

01-06-2006, 08:40 PM

I don't get your logic... An optional periphreal to allow a new feature for the 360 is going to be released, and somehow this pushes you into the arms of Sony? I'm thinking you probably weren't getting a 360 to begin with.

Maybe I didn't make it clear enough. I AM buying a 360, the girlfriend and i are anxiously awaiting a shipment that we can actually spend money on.

I WILL NOT buy that dumb ass attachment MS will make to playback HD-DVD. I was hoping that they would include that as standard in a later model of 360, so i would have an excuse for us to have two 360's, but now I will buy a PS3 for my "Hi-Def" movie viewing. Thus obviously supporting the Blu-ray camp...

That is what I meant. They made the controllers wireless...someone is releasing a wireless system to link the xbox to the tv\lcd etc...All that ill reduce the wires im used to with 7 gaming systems. So why does MS go and add a preriphal that will add another wire, and either rest on top or to teh side of the 360 ? Just dumb...im sure they could have struck a deal for the HD-DVD alliance to include the drives in the 360 for alost nothing to spearhead acceptance.

Balthasar

01-07-2006, 02:12 AM

You are one thick headed twit arn't you. While I agreed with you and said sound wouldn't work all that well, while music and cutsceens would, yet you still are prancing around about sound.

So you are saying there is no benefit of having a bonus HD cut sceens and higher fidility music on another disk?

No, there is no benefit to having a second disc with all the music and cut scenes separated from the main content in an optional peripheral. It's dumb. Sorry.