Japanese Nationalism not at Fault in 360's Failure

[bapenguin]

4Color Rebellion (http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2006/01/03/the-xbox-360-and-japanese-nationalism/) has an editorial up regarding the recent message board ramblings regarding the XBox 360's failure in the Japanese Market.

These articles are, of course, making the rounds of gaming sites. The comments I read on these sites often make me sick to my stomach. People are saying that the Xbox is not selling because the Japanese people are Xenophobic and will never buy foreign electronics. I have even read a few comments that say and I quote “Those Japs would never buy an American game system because they are still bitter about Hiroshima”.
The author then goes on to give example after example of successful American companies in Japan.

They are buying iPods like crazy. Japanese Apple stores sell more iPods per store than Apple stores in America. But wait! Apple is based in California. How can this be? Why aren’t they proudly buying their own, Japanese, Sony Mp3 players? Because Apple makes a good product that is in tune with what Japanese consumers like.
He wraps everything up showing the XBox 360's shortcomings. He also mentions that bad taste left in many Japanese gamer's mouths following the original XBox and all the empty promises Microsoft made to them.

Thanks Morratut for the heads up.

[TrackZero]

Great article. His only minor mistake I have to point out:

"And then, this year, Microsoft releases this new system with only 6 launch titles. And backwards compatibility with less than 20 original Xbox games. That is an insult."

It's a lot more than 20 games.

Please note, like I said, GREAT article, that's just a minor mistake, don't go off on me as if I'm disagreeing with anything else he said.

[Borys]

FYI the 360 sold around 12 000 units in the second week, 5 000 units in the third week in Japan. That's total bombing - there are around 100 000 360s just lying on the shelves.

But for the third time - why do you American people even care?

It's selling like crazy in the US, people were even lining on 31 of December before the stores! Even the PS2 didn't have that huge hype and following!

Leave the Japanese market and Japanese tastes to Japanese people and Sony, please.

[Zawath]

It's a bad comparison. The only reason Ipod is selling there so well is because it doesn't have any competition. The Sony players are pure crap and the Japanese consumers know that.

[solinari6]

Great article. His only minor mistake I have to point out:

"And then, this year, Microsoft releases this new system with only 6 launch titles. And backwards compatibility with less than 20 original Xbox games. That is an insult."

It's a lot more than 20 games.


The Japanese backwards compatiblity list is much smaller than the american list. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6139921.html)

[Kelegacy]

FYI the 360 sold around 12 000 units in the second week, 5 000 units in the third week in Japan. That's total bombing - there are around 100 000 360s just lying on the shelves.

But for the third time - why do you American people even care?

It's selling like crazy in the US, people were even lining on 31 of December before the stores! PS2 even didn't have that huge hype and following!

Leave the Japanese market and Japanese tastes to Japanese people and Sony, please.
And I don't even know why it's still selling like crazy here. Maybe they're still filing the preorders? I know that right now I'm as excited about the 360 as I am about the PSP...I really don't care.

I never agreed with the xenophobic anti-American product theory people have about Japan. It's an easy way to make excuses for a product not selling well. And nice way to point out the iPods are like hot cakes over there. The Xbox 360 just doesn't appeal to them, the same way it currently doesn't appeal to me.

[Chalex]

Great article. His only minor mistake I have to point out:

"And then, this year, Microsoft releases this new system with only 6 launch titles. And backwards compatibility with less than 20 original Xbox games. That is an insult."

It's a lot more than 20 games.

Please note, like I said, GREAT article, that's just a minor mistake, don't go off on me as if I'm disagreeing with anything else he said.

It's actually less than 20 games:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6139921.html


While the US list of Xbox games playable on the Xbox 360 has more than 200 titles, the Japanese list only carries 12 games. Microsoft Japan notes that additional titles will be added to the list in the future, so it might be a matter of time before the remaining games from the American list appears.

[bapenguin]

And I don't even know why it's still selling like crazy here. Maybe they're still filing the preorders? I know that right now I'm as excited about the 360 as I am about the PSP...I really don't care.

I never agreed with the xenophobic anti-American product theory people have about Japan. It's an easy way to make excuses for a product not selling well. And nice way to point out the iPods are like hot cakes over there. The Xbox 360 just doesn't appeal to them, the same way it currently doesn't appeal to me.

But that's just it Kelegacy, you seem to have the tastes of a Japanese gamer. A large portion of the American population doesn't. That's why the 360 is doing so well here.

[Switcher]

360-only fans in America should care, because they're never going to get some of the best Japanese games that Sony fans will enjoy.

After the 1st year and half of the original Xbox's life, major exclusive Japanese titles pretty much dropped off the radar for the console. I can only see that happening again, and probably even quicker this time around.

[Chalex]

I got beat :o

[Banacek]

Good read, but my only problem is that you can't say that Japanese Nationalism has no effect because they buy other products from other markets. Now, on the other hand, if you mentioned either video games or video game systems that were made in America and sold like gangbusters over there, then you'd have a case. The only way the XBox 360 could do well over there would be something like Square Enix exclusivity, which isn't going to happen. The XBox 360 does American games that go with American tastes very well. They should just focus on what they have that works.

/and the rasicm is very annoying, I agree...

[Schnoogs]

I'm sorry but this article is full of shit.

I base my statement off of that fact that I dated a Japanese girl for a year and got to travel through Japan with her AND that my best friend is a Japanese major who lived there for several years.

Time and time again we experienced a sort of technology bigotry from the Japanese people we met.

I don't buy it at all

[total]

Just to play devil's advocate here, I'll put up a story.

I asked a friend from Japan if he was bias at all on American products. He said American cars are junk (to which I replied that there is no such thing as an American car any more) and American electronics are hit or miss. When I showed him my hacked Xbox he was blown away. He loved the multimedia capabilities of XBMC (coupled with my ripped collection of DVDs on a server in the basement) and loved playing DOA on live. He told me he would buy one if there were more Japanese players on live (latency issues with most fighting games I guess). So as far as electronics go he didn't seem to care if it was American or not. Cars was a completely different story.

[Rirath]

an editorial up regarding the recent message board ramblings regarding the XBox 360's failure in the Japanese Market.

Wait... so, you're saying people on the Internet don't understand the Japanese? There's a first. The amount of misinformation of the casual net surfer about Japan is rivaled only by Canada.

Seriously, why the heck should I care about message board ramblings? The Internet is full of morons, full of people speaking their mind, and any discussion will typically sink to the lowest common denominator in 3 posts or less.

[Roc Ingersol]

Has any reasonable person ever asserted that Japanese nationalism was the cause?
When idiots and trolls spout absurd things, you can just ignore them.

[fitbabits]

And I don't even know why it's still selling like crazy here. Maybe they're still filing the preorders? I know that right now I'm as excited about the 360 as I am about the PSP...I really don't care.

I never agreed with the xenophobic anti-American product theory people have about Japan. It's an easy way to make excuses for a product not selling well. And nice way to point out the iPods are like hot cakes over there. The Xbox 360 just doesn't appeal to them, the same way it currently doesn't appeal to me.
Well, speaking as an Xbox 360 owner (and one of those caught up in the whirlwind of hype leading up to its release), I can honestly say that I'm not in the least disappointed so far - and I know plenty people who share the same opinion. I've had at least 20 different people ask to buy my Xbox 360 from me - some quoting ridiculous prices ($1600 with the 8 games I already have), but I have no intention of parting with it. It's selling like crazy here because people want it badly and Microsoft have struck a chord with these people.

Doubtless there are people out there who couldn't give a crap about the 360 (like yourself), but doesn't mean that it's not a worthwhile purchase.

[Dr.Finger]

I don't think it's racisim or xenophobia, but there is an element of cultural confusion in video games. As an American I think online is a big part of the experience, and most of the poeple at Microsoft agree. But the Japanese just don't think it's all that important. To them online gaming is 'just a fad', or 'a minor feature', so Sony isn't as focused on an easy online experience as Microsoft. Fine for the Japanese market, bad for the US. On the flip side, the Japanese just don't like first person shooters. From most accounts I've read they tend to get motion sick when playing FPS'. What is the dominant genre on both the XBox and the 360? FPS'. Good for the US, bad for Japan.

[Axiom]

But for the third time - why do you American people even care?

Most of us don't.

[agentgray]

My brother is stationed in Japan with the Corps.

He says that the shops there on base are stocked pretty heavily with X360s. Nobody is buying them. I think there is a national bias as far as video gaming is concerned. The bias can go both ways, good and bad. The X360 just doesn't appeal to the Japanese culture.

I was like, dude, buy about 10 and send them to me.

Anyway, he doesn't get it either. Of course, most of the guys stationed there want the portable players (ie DS).

[rein]

FYI the 360 sold around 12 000 units in the second week, 5 000 units in the third week in Japan. That's total bombing - there are around 100 000 360s just lying on the shelves.

But for the third time - why do you American people even care?

It's selling like crazy in the US, people were even lining on 31 of December before the stores! Even the PS2 didn't have that huge hype and following!

Leave the Japanese market and Japanese tastes to Japanese people and Sony, please.

I don't think Microsoft can be number 1 in the console market without the Japanese market. Of course, without N. America either. Point is, they will need Japan eventually if they plan to beat Sony.

I wish I had waited on buying me 360. I love the interface, love Live and like the system. Unfortunately I just had to go buy a Xbox again because the backward compatibility is shit and there are few games available right now. I spent $400 on a box to download and play Popcap games.

[Sion]

and all the empty promises Microsoft made to them.

This is BS. PS2 had more empty promises than the Bush Administration.

[Banacek]

This is BS. PS2 had more empty promises than the Bush Administration.

hahahaha, Sion wins...

[TrackZero]

FYI the 360 sold around 12 000 units in the second week, 5 000 units in the third week in Japan. That's total bombing - there are around 100 000 360s just lying on the shelves.

But for the third time - why do you American people even care?

It's selling like crazy in the US, people were even lining on 31 of December before the stores! Even the PS2 didn't have that huge hype and following!

Leave the Japanese market and Japanese tastes to Japanese people and Sony, please.

Well then if that's the case, I won't get Japanese games being made for the console I prefer. That's why people care if the 360 takes off there.

[TrackZero]

The Japanese backwards compatiblity list is much smaller than the american list. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6139921.html)

Ah, thanks for the correction.

[TrackZero]

The amount of misinformation of the casual net surfer about Japan is rivaled only by Canada.


Uh, what? I've never found Americans on the net that far misinformed about Canada. There's the usual smatering of stereotypical jokes, but those are just that, jokes. Noone takes them seriously at all. If a few white trash trailerpark deadbeats somewhere do, well, those aren't the type of people whos opinion I'm worried about (yes, we have white trash trailerpark deadbeats here too, I'm just making a point).

Now, in all honesty, the only "crazy" stereotype I've actually heard someone say (who believed it) was that they eat babies in Japan. That was from a guy who was from India (and moved here), and he didn't pick that meme up in North America, that's for sure.

Edit: Oh, and the whole baby eating thing stemmed from that art piece of a fetus on a barbecue that was circulated a few years back, various countries pointing to their rivals saying that it was from them.

[Banacek]

Oh man, from Japanese Nationalism to eating babies. This is why I come here :)

[Reanimated]

Pointing to the iPod as proof that the Japanese don't shun American products is pure bullshit.

That would be like saying that America LOVES Nintendo & citing the success of the GBA as an example.

iPod is the only game in town just like the GBA was/is the only game in town. If there were a comparable Japanese competitor on the market, you can bet your ass that iPod wouldn't maintain the success it has over there. You'll see the iPod support die over there with the introduction of high capacity MP3 playing cell phones.

[Heretic Machine]

Do the Japanese consider theirselves to be the kings of MP3 players? If not, then their iPod analogy doesn't work. The reason they don't buy American consoles is because they think they make superior gaming hardware, and it doesn't matter if that's true or not, the fact is that they like to style theirselves that way.

EDIT: I'm not saying that this is something exclusive to the Japanese and the game industry. This has happend with many industries, in many countries, including the US. But this is a current trend in the hobby that I enjoy, and so it matters to me. At one time Germany was considered to be the masters of model trains, and buying one made in America was like buying an off-brand cereal. Then Lionel stepped in and made American trains big, and the German trains became phased out (WWII didn't help bolster their business either). The problem is that the 360 IS a good console, and it will be ignored in Japan as long as this bias stands, much like the Gamecube is being ignored in America right now because it is viewed as "kiddy." Biases like these are bad for everybody, and this is just one of many that we need to work on breaking down.

[Borys]

Hey people, this is taken from some random Nintendo fanblog so take it with a double grain of salt!!!

[fitbabits]

Oh man, from Japanese Nationalism to eating babies. This is why I come here :)
I know - it's absolutely wonderful! :D

[TheEpicOfTyler]

Article must be bullshit because it doesn't fit my opinion.

[TrackZero]

Article must be bullshit because it doesn't fit my opinion.

Funny because that can go both ways. The author is just stating his opinion.

[Heretic Machine]

I love the interface, love Live and like the system. Unfortunately I just had to go buy a Xbox again because the backward compatibility is shit and there are few games available right now. I spent $400 on a box to download and play Popcap games.

1. You shouldn't of sold a console just to buy another console with the promise of eventual backwards compatability. Now that you've learned your lesson, don't sell the PS2 to get a PS3.

2. PD0, Kameo, CoD2, DoA4, Condemned = Five titles within two months that are worth owning. That's way better than the DS, PSP, or PS2 got out in their first two months.

[Dr Quincy]

It's a bad comparison. The only reason Ipod is selling there so well is because it doesn't have any competition. The Sony players are pure crap and the Japanese consumers know that.

By Japanese logic surely it could be said that the PlayStation sells so well as it doesn't have any competition? The Microsoft console is pure crap and Japanese consumers know that.

[rein]

1. You shouldn't of sold a console just to buy another console with the promise of eventual backwards compatability. Now that you've learned your lesson, don't sell the PS2 to get a PS3.

2. PD0, Kameo, CoD2, DoA3, Condemned = Five titles within two months that are worth owning. That's way better than the DS, PSP, or PS2 got out in their first two months.

1. Agree. I should have held on to my Halo edition Xbox. I sold it to a friend cheap. It isn't so bad though. I bought the replacement Xbox yesterday with a copy of Far Cry for $60.00.

2. I didn't say there were no good games. Just a few. You are right about the PSP but it offered other functionality. DS and PS2 had backward compatibility to get through those lean times. Microsoft should not have even advertised backward compatibility. I mean. It was confusing and they would not confirm before the launch what games would or would not be backward compatible. They also said they would work on getting close to 100% backward compatibility. What exactly have they updated on the list since launch? Oh, a couple TC games.

[fitbabits]

I didn't say there were no good games. Just a few. You are right about the PSP 1. but it offered other functionality. DS and PS2 had backward compatibility to get through those lean times. Microsoft should not have even advertised backward compatibility. I mean. It was confusing 2. and they would not confirm before the launch what games would or would not be backward compatible. They also said they would work on getting close to 100% backward compatibility. What exactly have they updated on the list since launch? Oh, a couple TC games.
1. Two words - Live Arcade!
2. Actually, the BC list was published before the 360 launched.

[Heretic Machine]

1. Agree. I should have held on to my Halo edition Xbox. I sold it to a friend cheap. It isn't so bad though. I bought the replacement Xbox yesterday with a copy of Far Cry for $60.00.

2. I didn't say there were no good games. Just a few. You are right about the PSP but it offered other functionality. DS and PS2 had backward compatibility to get through those lean times. Microsoft should not have even advertised backward compatibility. I mean. It was confusing and they would not confirm before the launch what games would or would not be backward compatible. They also said they would work on getting close to 100% backward compatibility. What exactly have they updated on the list since launch? Oh, a couple TC games.

Yes, the DS and PS2 both have backwards compatability... for systems that nearly everyone owns. If you don't sells your old systems then it doesn't matter, it's just conveniant that you don't have to leave them hooked up anymore. As for MS's backwards compatability, I'm fairly certain they had the list up a couple weeks before launch.

I agree that they haven't updated it as much as they should, but I am under the impression that updates will probably be monthly, just as Marketplace updates seem to be weekly.

As an early adopter, you should expect to have few games worth playing for the first six months. But you already have at least five games worth playing, with more coming in February and March. This has been a really solid launch as far as I'm concerned, better than any I've gone through.

[fushi]

But for the third time - why do you American people even care?
For the third that time: stop asking that stupid question. You can't become the market leader in the console world if you don't have the support of Japanese developers. Having boatloads of games made by rather penisheaded American devs is only going to give you so much market share and a very onesided gaming line-up. People will tire of it and the Xbox brand which is based around "EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE, EVERYTHING" will suffer because it doesn't deliver anything outside of testosterone-filled games.

How you, of all people, don't seem to understand that is beyond me.

And I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but 4CR is one of the least-biased Nintendo blogs out there.

Edit: vvvv yeah, sorry :( I get sort of carried away with redundancy and all, probably because I frequent GAF too vvvv

[Borys]

For the third that time: stop asking that stupid question. You can't become the market leader in the console world if you don't have the support of Japanese developers. Having boatloads of games made by rather penisheaded American devs is only going to give you so much market share and a very onesided gaming line-up. People will tire of it and the Xbox brand which is based around "EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE, EVERYTHING" will suffer because it doesn't deliver anything outside of testosterone-filled games.

How you, of all people, don't seem to understand that is beyond me.

And I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but 4CR is one of the least-biased Nintendo blogs out there.

Hey man, I think I got the message on the third try. No need to get jumpy like that. I think I will just become neutral to this topic.

[92miata]

they aren't hard to find anymore. january 1st i walked into kmart and found 1 premium system. i was shocked, almost brought tears to my eyes. then for the heck of it i went into target and found 2 premiums sitting on the shelves. then walmart only to see 5 core systems sitting there. i was actually looking for the damn plug and charge for the controller which IS HARD TO FIND RIGHT NOW. this is in prescott arizona. i got mine, rented perfect dark and kameo and on my 37" sharp lcd i am completely blown away with the 360. thank you so much microsoft and kmart!!!!!

[EvilBob46]

Had Microsoft actually launched in Japan with a killer app (Dead or Alive 4 at least) and realized that America's obsession with First Person Shooters looks about as weird to the Japanese as the anime RPG craze does to many Americans, they would've done better.

But that's just it Kelegacy, you seem to have the tastes of a Japanese gamer. A large portion of the American population doesn't.

What exactly is the taste of a Japanese gamer? Aside from loving everything anime to death in a similar way that many Americans love first-person shooters to death, Japanes gamers enjoy many of the same games we do. A large portion of the American gaming population enjoys games like Resident Evil 4, Metal Gear Solid, Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy...all of these games are about as popular as they come over here in the US. I don't think you have to "have a taste for Japanes games" to enjoy RE4, or Kingdom Hearts, or Mario.

[Goronmon]

I don't know, I have to believe that at least some of the unpopularity of the 360 is due to it being a non-Japanese product. I mean, Americans do it, I'm sure that kind of nationalism occurs in other countries as well. I don't even think thats its because they hate foreign products or anything, just that they prefer to buy Japanese ones.

[rein]

As an early adopter, you should expect to have few games worth playing for the first six months. But you already have at least five games worth playing, with more coming in February and March. This has been a really solid launch as far as I'm concerned, better than any I've gone through.

No. You have five games worth playing. I have 3. I don't like DoA or PDO. I don't play racing games or traditional sport games. I know I was an early adopter and it was my fault for selling my Xbox system. I mostly did it because I thought I could do without the current xbox releases. FarCry Instincts and Battlefield 2 made me re-think that decision. That, and I wanted to clear some space in my entertainment cabinet. Stereo/Tuner, Tivo, VCR, DVD player, PS2, Xbox 360, Gamecube, and Xbox system is a bit much for it. Not to mention when I break out an older system. Good thing it has doors that I can close if company comes over. :)

I have been through a few lean launchs too. However, fuzzy as my memory is most of the time. I do recall reading comments from Microsoft reps stating that they were working very hard on Xbox compatibility. They said over and over, our goal is 100% never actually answering questions that were presented to them on the subject. The way they phrased it was very missleading. With that said, it is still my fault for selling the original Xbox early.

Any how, the point of all of this thread is the Japanese market and Microsoft. If I am disappointed in our selection of backward compatible Xbox games. They have to be completely dissatisfied.

1. Two words - Live Arcade!
2. Actually, the BC list was published before the 360 launched.

1. From my original post. I spent $400 on a box to download and play Popcap games..
2. Yea, I was just relying too much on the "we are working very hard on updating the list" comments.

[Rirath]

Uh, what? I've never found Americans on the net that far misinformed about Canada. There's the usual smatering of stereotypical jokes, but those are just that, jokes. Noone takes them seriously at all.

Indeed, it was a joke about the jokes. :rolleyes:

As for NA stereotypes on Japan, just drop in on any discussion of the Japanese language, culture, eletronics, games (as the article points out), you name it. People just aren't well informed. It's always a "I read in this book" or "my brother dated this girl who said" or worse, wild guesses based on anime.

[AspectVoid]

You know, the thing I got the most out of that article is the fact that Microsoft was not translating the games they released in Japan. Seriously, if Ninja Gaiden or Resident Evil 4 came over here in Japanese with no subtitles, do you really think they would have sold all that well? I think they would have sold like crap, as only the die-hard gamers would have bought them.

Oh, and as for the X360 selling like mad, I blame that on the short supply. If Microsoft's initial run of systems had been, say, 3 million here in the US, you would not have seen the massive lines and the giant disire to buy the system. It could be said that the X360 is this year's Tickle Me Elmo.

[doyama]

The Japanese are xenophobic to PEOPLE! They are also nationalistic when it comes to food stuffs, especially rice! But in terms of of consumer goods they just want the hottest thing. No one in Japan is thinking, "Well I don't want the Xbox360 because it is made by American scum!".

The Japanese are faddy by nature. If you can get enough of a fad going it can save your company. Bandai was going to go bankrupt and sell itself to Sega. The tamagochi craze literally saved them and put them in the black. Burberry makes like 30% of its world wide sales in Japan. Braun sells like 50% of its high end electric shavers in Japan. In the consumer goods market, its fallacy that Japanese buy Japan only.

The mistake Microsoft made was in marketing the xbox360 in Japan. They should have known that they already had a huge problem with mindshare in Japan. Plus coupled with the disastrous launch where discs were being scratched. Sure it was a small % but the mere PERCEPTION that it was a faulty product killed it.

MS should have taken ALL it's money that it spent in marketing the xbox360 in America and dumped it in Japan. Why do much marketing here? You're preaching to the choir! They already had a huge base of fans that were more than willing to upgrade. They should have dumped hundreds of millions of dollars in advertising, product placement, celebrety advertising, going on the variety circuit, anything and everything. They need ed to create the fad that the xbox360 was the most important thing to own. They should have left nothing to chance. They should have rented out space in Ginza and Shibuya for a huge party to attract people to buy it. They should have bought out ad space and interviews in newspapers, magazines, webpages. Yet it seems like they did none of this? They were wasting too much time getting the American launch ready it seems like Japan was an afterthought.

If Microsoft was serious about the xbox360 they should have dumped Dead or Alive 4 as a 360 only title and paid Konami big bucks to make Winning Eleven a 360 exclusive. It doesn't seem like they really understood that culturally they needed to adapt their advertising and marketing strategy to capture the Japanese market.

[Raven_payne]

Hmmm I'm not really to deep into the numbers of everything but anyone can see why Microsoft isn't doing well in the land of the east, but...I also dont think the company in a whole was really trying to hook our asian counterparts on 360 as hard as all the hype says the best thing I've heard that they did for japan was launch it with a lower price tag and try and make a few games that appeal to their taste( by the way none of whitch were launch tiltles)

This was a step in the right direction but it's like me saying I'm going to jump the grand canyon and only leaping inches forward heres what I think we as an american people in general are going to buy the Xbox 360 because it's the first next gen system out and let's just face it life today it all about speed fast games fast action fast food fast lifestyle this is the way an american is brought up and sometimes this need for speed overides everything else most of us dont want to wait for the PS3 and the Revolution so we'll take whats infront of us for now but on the other hand we have the Japs who live equally fast lives compared to ours in most cases but easteners find time to stop and look at what they are given before they take a likeing to it not to mention the fact that not matter how close we come together or how many imports and exports we send to each other we'll always have very different taste in everything we do including video games ( and if you dont belive me name 10 first person shooters from Japan that dont have a third person feature on it then name 10 RPG with some werid anime storyline and artstyle ) I'm not ging to lie I am an american and love all things american but if the PS3 whitch will more likely turn out to be a computer rather then a console comes out and blows everything 360 has to offer I'll accept it

[Heretic Machine]

I have been through a few lean launchs too. However, fuzzy as my memory is most of the time. I do recall reading comments from Microsoft reps stating that they were working very hard on Xbox compatibility. They said over and over, our goal is 100% never actually answering questions that were presented to them on the subject. The way they phrased it was very missleading. With that said, it is still my fault for selling the original Xbox early.

I dunno, after E3 I was -never- under the impression that I should expect 100% compatability within a year of launch. I doubt there will EVER be 100% compatability, and I'm sure that at least a couple of the games I own will never get put onto that list. I'm just hoping that the stuff I really enjoyed shows up sometime soon.

America's obsession with First Person Shooters looks about as weird to the Japanese as the anime RPG craze does to many Americans

1. Anime is popular in America now. It's trendy and fashionable, didn't you know that?

2. J-RPG's are popular in America now. So much so that most people have forgotten what a real RPG is. Haven't you noticed that about 50% of the people who get online and talk about games are Square-fanboys?

3. FPS's aren't just popular in America. They are VERY popular all over the world. Why do you think you run into so many Europeans online? I'll buy the whole "Japanese get motion sickness" thing, but they still seem to have plenty of fast moving games. Maybe it's a perspective thing...

[KDups]

I don't know enough to say why the 360 isn't doing well in Japan, but I'd like to hear how the US has some kind of a US bias when it comes to gaming. It's seemingly not with hardware - ever since the Atari 2600 days Nintendo, Sega, and Sony have all dominated with their respective systems while US systems like the Jaguar and 3DO have tanked. It's not in the games - many Japanese RPGs, platformers, action games, and more have done extremely well in this country. Even quirky and decidedly non-US developed games like Katamari and DDR have found footholds in our culture.

I'm not saying we're some enlightened people or some garbage like that, but when it comes to cultural bias I just don't see it in the US when it comes to gaming.

[Heretic Machine]

Hmmm I'm not really to deep into the numbers of everything but anyone can see why Microsoft isn't doing well in the land of the east, but...I also dont think the company in a whole was really trying to hook our asian counterparts on 360 as hard as all the hype says the best thing I've heard that they did for japan was launch it with a lower price tag and try and make a few games that appeal to their taste( by the way none of whitch were launch tiltles)

This was a step in the right direction but it's like me saying I'm going to jump the grand canyon and only leaping inches forward heres what I think we as an american people in general are going to buy the Xbox 360 because it's the first next gen system out and let's just face it life today it all about speed fast games fast action fast food fast lifestyle this is the way an american is brought up and sometimes this need for speed overides everything else most of us dont want to wait for the PS3 and the Revolution so we'll take whats infront of us for now but on the other hand we have the Japs who live equally fast lives compared to ours in most cases but easteners find time to stop and look at what they are given before they take a likeing to it not to mention the fact that not matter how close we come together or how many imports and exports we send to each other we'll always have very different taste in everything we do including video games ( and if you dont belive me name 10 first person shooters from Japan that dont have a third person feature on it then name 10 RPG with some werid anime storyline and artstyle ) I'm not ging to lie I am an american and love all things american but if the PS3 whitch will more likely turn out to be a computer rather then a console comes out and blows everything 360 has to offer I'll accept it

For an edumacation, please see final panel. (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/10/11)

[bapenguin]

1. Anime is popular in America now. It's trendy and fashionable, didn't you know that?

Semi-off topic....I was in Wal-mart yesterday and I saw they are carrying Anime movies like Steamboy, Appleseed and the like. Crazy.

[Heretic Machine]

Semi-off topic....I was in Wal-mart yesterday and I saw they are carrying Anime movies like Steamboy, Appleseed and the like. Crazy.

Yup, they've done that for a while. They've had a stock of Ghost in the Shell at my Wal-mart for the past couple of years. Super Wal-marts carry WAY more though...

[fitbabits]

I dunno, after E3 I was -never- under the impression that I should expect 100% compatability within a year of launch. I doubt there will EVER be 100% compatability, and I'm sure that at least a couple of the games I own will never get put onto that list. I'm just hoping that the stuff I really enjoyed shows up sometime soon.
And one other thing that people tend to forget when pounding on the 360 about bacwards compatability - the PS2 is NOT 100% backwards compatabile with PS1 games.

I kept my original Xbox because there's no way that every game I own or play will be playable on the 360. I understand people who sold their Xbox to put money towards their 360, but to cry about it after the fact indicates that these people may not have had all the facts before trading.

[TrackZero]

For an edumacation, please see final panel. (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/10/11)

Nice man, very nice.

[rein]

I never said Microsoft would acheive 100% compatibility or that they said they would achieve it. I referenced that they said that it was their goal. That was missleading because it gave the impression that backward compatibility was going to be a focus on the 360. It doesn't seem to be the case since updates have been weak. I never blamed Microsoft for my selling my Xbox too soon either. I said it was my fault. I took responsibility for doing it. That doesn't change the fact that I am disappointed with the backward compatibilty of the 360.

[Vandenh]

iPod is not a good example... as far as I know that is about the only US product that really sells well in Japan. Try selling some US cars in Japan :)

[Heretic Machine]

I never said Microsoft would acheive 100% compatibility or that they said they would achieve it. I referenced that they said that it was their goal. That was missleading because it gave the impression that backward compatibility was going to be a focus on the 360. It doesn't seem to be the case since updates have been weak. I never blamed Microsoft for my selling my Xbox too soon either. I said it was my fault. I took responsibility for doing it. That doesn't change the fact that I am disappointed with the backward compatibilty of the 360.

Well, as I said, updates will probably be monthly. There has only been one so far because only a little over a month has passed since launch. If another update doesn't come sometime in January (or if that update sucks as much as the first) then we can start bitching. I'm gonna blame the first crappy update on them taking a post-launch break or something.

[Kelegacy]

1. From my original post. I spent $400 on a box to download and play Popcap games..


I also find it bizarre that Live Arcade is probably the biggest draw on the 360 right now. But then again, the release calender will now be a wasteland until...what? Gears of War? It's better to have a 5 dollar game to play every so often than nothing at all, I suppose. The arcade doesnt really attract me right now, though. At least not on its own merits.

I didn't intentionally mean that the 360 sucks because I don't enjoy it. I haven't found a game I'd really enjoy playing instead of Kameo, and since the game is relatively short I think I'd be bored the day after I purchased the system. Plus, any excitement I had for it has dissipated now. PDZ seems like it would be fun, but I think I'll just grab it at 20 bucks or whatever the Platinum hits price is when I finally get around to getting a 360 in a year or so. Call of Duty 2 I already own on the PC, and I really don't enjoy playing FPS on consoles, to tell the truth. I don't overly like fighters, so DOA is out, too. What's left? I love sports, but I might as well just pick up a 40 buck sports game for the other consoles and save myself 400 bucks. Pretty graphics alone don't cut it for me these days.

When I saw Power Stone on the DC I knew that I NEEDED the system. Nothing yet screams "BUY ME! BUY ME!" for the 360, so I will hold off until system issues are addressed, more games are available, and the price comes down a bit.

And bapenguin's comment is true, in a way. I love quirky titles. I play JRPGs. I don't really love anime, but I sometimes watch it. I love bizarre titles. But I also love action, gore, violence, fast cars, western RPGs, and guns. I NEED either the PC or the Xbox to quench my Western diet, and Japan to satiate me with the Eastern dishes. I don't love one over the other, but right now the PS2 is the only platform I own that caters to all of the continents nigh-equally. My Nintendo systems...well, I have trouble classifying them as Japanese, because most Nintendo games transcend cultures. They are just...fun.

[Kelegacy]

iPod is not a good example... as far as I know that is about the only US product that really sells well in Japan. Try selling some US cars in Japan :)
US cars are inefficient pieces of shit, or at least a good many are. Does Europe export cars to Japan? They'd be more popular than America's stuff probably.

[Heretic Machine]

I didn't intentionally mean that the 360 sucks because I don't enjoy it. I haven't found a game I'd really enjoy playing instead of Kameo, and since the game is relatively short I think I'd be bored the day after I purchased the system. Plus, any excitement I had for it has dissipated now. PDZ seems like it
would be fun, but I think I'll just grab it at 20 bucks or whatever the Platinum hits price is when I finally get around to getting a 360 in a year or so. Call of Duty 2 I already own on the PC, and I really don't enjoy playing FPS on consoles, to tell the truth. I don't overly like fighters, so DOA is out, too. What's left? I love sports, but I might as well just pick up a 40 buck sports game for the other consoles and save myself 400 bucks. Pretty graphics alone don't cut it for me these days.

1/23
Top Spin 2

1/31
Demonik
Lost Odyssey
Scarface: The World Is Yours
Test Drive Unlimited
Tomb Raider: Legend

2/07
Frame City Killer

2/21
Full Auto

3/01
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter

3/13
The Outfit

3/14
Burnout Revenge

3/20
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Collector's Edition

5/01
Fight Night Round 3
Final Fantasy XI

6/01
Prey

10/01
Too Human

Far from a complete list. Notice the J-RPG coming in January.

[fitbabits]

But then again, the release calender will now be a wasteland until...what? Gears of War?
Oblivion! :rolleyes:

[Gil]

I find the comparrison between the successful sales of the iPod to the lack of sales of the Xbox 360 to be kind of dubious proof, seeing as how the two types of products are massively different in what they're used for.

[Kamalot]

Nice list, but it is a LOT more sparse than I really thought. Some of those titles will play on a system I already have or, in the case of Burnout, I already have.

Dissapointing? Yeah.

I think I'll keep playing my DS until the 360 gets some decent games I NEED!

1/23
Top Spin 2

1/31
Demonik
Lost Odyssey
Scarface: The World Is Yours
Test Drive Unlimited
Tomb Raider: Legend

2/07
Frame City Killer

2/21
Full Auto

3/01
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter

3/13
The Outfit

3/14
Burnout Revenge

3/20
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Collector's Edition

5/01
Fight Night Round 3
Final Fantasy XI

6/01
Prey

10/01
Too Human

Far from a complete list. Notice the J-RPG coming in January.

[Heretic Machine]

Nice list, but it is a LOT more sparse than I really thought. Some of those titles will play on a system I already have or, in the case of Burnout, I already have.


It's not a complete list. It's NO WHERE NEAR a complete list of games coming out within the next few months. There are several games that I can name off the top of my head that are't on that list, but are supposed to be coming very soon. But that list came from Gamefaqs, so what can you expect really?

[easi]

Time and time again we experienced a sort of technology bigotry from the Japanese people we met.

Yeah, I'm sure it just came up naturally in conversation eh? Idiot.

[bean19]

It's not a complete list. It's NO WHERE NEAR a complete list of games coming out within the next few months. There are several games that I can name off the top of my head that are't on that list, but are supposed to be coming very soon. But that list came from Gamefaqs, so what can you expect really?

Use Gamespot's list (http://www.gamespot.com/games.html?type=games&platform=1029&mode=all&sort=release&dlx_type=all&sortdir=desc) instead.

Also, I think the Lost Oddysey date is bullshit. . . even for a Japan release date. . . of course, even if that is the Japan release date, we probably won't see it (and Blue Dragon) until "the Fall".

[Heretic Machine]

More games:

Alan Wake - 02/01 (http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=T000290)
Blue Dragon - 02/01 (http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product_id=t000275)
[eM]-eNCHANT arM- - 02/01 (http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product_id=t000265)
Ninety-Nine Nights - 02/01 (http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=T000252)
The Darkness - 03/01 (http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=T000260)
Saint's Row - 04/03 (http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=200127)

Use Gamespot's list instead.

Also, I think the Lost Oddysey date is bullshit. . . even for a Japan release date. . . of course, even if that is the Japan release date, we probably won't see it (and Blue Dragon) until "the Fall".

Ya, I went there shortly after my last post. I think at least one of those two will come out soon. The rest of the list seems pretty solid though.

[Kefkataran]

Nice article. Kudos to the poster on this one.

[fitbabits]

If Alan Wake comes out on February first, I'll pose naked for EvAv! It would behoove you all to contact Take 2 and urge them to delay the release. :)

[Heretic Machine]

What the hell is with Alan Wake's Gamestop description...?

NOTE: Content based on the best available information. Price, release date, content and title are subject to change and/or cancellation by vendor.

From Remedy, the makers of Max Payne, comes this psychological action thriller for next-gen consoles and future-spec PC systems. The game is currently without a publisher, and it's strange Rockstar hasn't picked it up. Maybe they passed on it. Either way, the game features the massive open city of Pride Falls, offering the free flowing simulation of town life, excellent draw distances, lighting, physics, and special effects.

Does that seem like a strange description to anyone else? That they'd mention Rockstar... it's just not something I'd expect to read on a store's site.

[bean19]

Yeah, I'm sure it just came up naturally in conversation eh? Idiot.

Easi - you don't come across bigotry when traveling abroad or when meeting people from other countries? As a videogame nerd, I've been really surprised by how impactful culture seems to be on people's tastes.

However, I think that when people say that lousy Japanese sales are due to Japanese nationalism, they are just being nice. I think what Japan has is a case of "Microsoft sux0rs!" Basically, Microsoft has a very bad brand image there because they didn't like the old system or many of it's games. Americans are just as bad about hating certain brands or loving other brands when they deliver (or fail to deliver).

The biggest reason for poor sells is probably bad brand image, but the second and still very significant reason is a poor game lineup. Microsoft would have been smarter to release in Japan after they had more titles lined up. They should have had an impressive number of quality titles like the American release. I wouldn't have bought an X360 if those were the only games offerred either.

Btw. . . to totally escape what I think is a fairly reasoned middle road response to the main topic: What kind of game do you think Microsoft should make to appeal to the Japanese market?

My pic: Dating simulation where the player picks between several cutesy effeminate character models and attempts to woo different girls into doing the nasty. It is an RPG and he must use his special "Woo-Woo" attacks to get girls in the sack, and also to fight off demonic tentacle beasts that often attempt to rape the girls and the effeminate hero. :)

Yes. . . I know that that is judging the Japanese culture by one pervy subset, but it is a funny one. I hope they don't judge us by any of our many pervy subsets. . . our pervs are much less funny and interesting than theirs.

[fitbabits]

What the hell is with Alan Wake's Gamestop description...?

Does that seem like a strange description to anyone else? That they'd mention Rockstar... it's just not something I'd expect to read on a store's site.
Yeah, it's odd. Almost like a disgruntled fan of Remedy wrote the blurb.

[Mason]

Eh, the iPod comparison is sketchy, as many have pointed out, but they missed the part where there's a gigantic and perpetual holy war between those affiliated with different consoles. That's a huge polarizing factor.

Americans happily buy games from VUG, a French company. But if some other French company tried to put out a console, it wouldn't be hard to imagine how well it'd be received over here.

[Kelegacy]

Oblivion! :rolleyes:
How could I forget? I'll probably just get a 360 to play this instead of upgrading my PC. Cheaper. THough I don't know how it will work wiht just a standard controller. Played Morrowind on the PC.

I'd be very surprised if any of the RPGs are available before Summer's end. It takes a while to localize/translate a game. And hopefully they don't suck...RPGS just for a system that needs them usually turn out bad. But then again, I'm a blasted pessimist.

Thanks for the list, Perigon and gang. I wont upgrade a console for games I can play on the current systems, even if it means better graphics, but some games like Oblivion and Alan Wake I may need to. We'll see. But I wont have a 360 until 2007, or at the very earliest, this Xmas. Many variables are in play here. Until then, I'll keep masturbating to my brand new DS...and since I didn't own a GBA, I'm in backlog heaven. Or hell. It depends on your perception.

[Cyrano]

Just from a quick Google search, here's a link to a study (http://www.emeraldinsight.com/Insight/ViewContentServlet?Filename=Published/EmeraldFullTextArticle/Articles/0770200603.html) about Japanese attitudes toward American products. Very high percentages of Japanese intend to never buy an American product and would recommend that their friends never buy an American product.

I remember a 60 Minutes story from a LONG time ago (I'm old) in which the reporter interviewed Japanese people who explained why they buy inferior, more expensive Japanese food products over superior, less expansive imported ones. Attitudes may have changed somewhat since then, but there is a thread of anti-import attitude in Japanese culture.

[Kelegacy]

If Alan Wake comes out on February first, I'll pose naked for EvAv! It would behoove you all to contact Take 2 and urge them to delay the release. :)
I'm on the case...and I'll whip them and coat their wounds with alcohol in order to get that sucker out by February.

Hurry up TAKE TWO! For the love of God!

[Heretic Machine]

Just from a quick Google search, here's a link to a study (http://www.emeraldinsight.com/Insight/ViewContentServlet?Filename=Published/EmeraldFullTextArticle/Articles/0770200603.html) about Japanese attitudes toward American products. Very high percentages of Japanese intend to never buy an American product and would recommend that their friends never buy an American product.

I remember a 60 Minutes story from a LONG time ago (I'm old) in which the reporter interviewed Japanese people who explained why they buy inferior, more expensive Japanese food products over superior, less expansive imported ones. Attitudes may have changed somewhat since then, but there is a thread of anti-import attitude in Japanese culture.

I think a lot of people also forget that for a LONG LONG TIME Japan was closed off from the rest of the world. People didn't leave, and people didn't go in. If a crew of sailors were shipwrecked there, you never heard from them again. Imperial Japan did not like outsiders, though eventually the US got them to open their ports.

Japan has also been driven by their government to strengthen their economy since WWII. Buying imported goods only bleeds money out of your country, and I think that Japanese citizens are more aware of this than Americans. Then there is the simple fact that they view their companies as superior many times, without much justification behind that opinion.

If Japanese companies thought that Japanese people would buy 360's, they would of lined up to make games for the console. But it is painfully obvious to anyone who knows anything about the Japanese that the 360 was going to fail, so the games didn't show up. Now people can say, "Well, they just didn't have the right games for the Japanese people." The fact is, they didn't have the right people for Japanese games.

[fitbabits]

I'm on the case...and I'll whip them and coat their wounds with alcohol in order to get that sucker out by February.

Hurry up TAKE TWO! For the love of God!
Wait, I meant for y'all to call T2 and beg them to delay the release! :)

[Zeal]

I agree with most points of the article. The Japanese are just brand loyal little bitches.

[EvilBob46]

2. J-RPG's are popular in America now. So much so that most people have forgotten what a real RPG is. Haven't you noticed that about 50% of the people who get online and talk about games are Square-fanboys?

Dragon Quest VIII, the most well-known and hyped J-RPG in a long time, sold only 88,000 copies in the United States. J-RPGs, and anime ones in particular, are not as popular as you think, especially if they don't contain the words "Final" and "Fantasy."


3. FPS's aren't just popular in America. They are VERY popular all over the world.

FPS games are not popular in Japan. At all.

[Heretic Machine]

Dragon Quest VIII, the most well-known and hyped J-RPG in a long time, sold only 88,000 copies in the United States. J-RPGs, and anime ones in particular, are not as popular as you think, especially if they don't contain the words "Final" and "Fantasy."

Funny how it was sold out every time I went to Gamestop or one of the two Wal-marts I've been visiting over winter break.


FPS games are not popular in Japan. At all.

Yes, but they are in China, Korea, Europe, Australia, North America, and probably South America. Who knows about Africa, I don't know if they have a gaming community.

[Steele Johnson]

the games on an xbox and xbox 360 are close to playing a pc game (and most of them are pc games), that's why Americans like it. The Japanese don't want to play pc games on a console.

[Heretic Machine]

the games on an xbox and xbox 360 are close to playing a pc game (and most of them are pc games), that's why Americans like it. The Japanese don't want to play pc games on a console.

...What exactly do you think makes them "close to playing a pc game"? Seriously, what makes Splinter Cell so much more "PC-like" than Metal Gear Solid? Kameo more PC than Jak? Kill Zone compared to Halo?

I think this is a bullshit argument, unless you think having decent online support makes a game too "PC-like."

[fitbabits]

I agree with most points of the article. The Japanese are just brand loyal little bitches.
Quoted, not for truth, but for ignorance.

[Blade]

Just an interjection:

The reason why people are lining up for the Xbox 360 isn't the games, which have had a largely mediocre reception. It's the graphics, and the next-generation appeal. Being the only new home console this Christmas (and increased consumer interest in video games) plus limited supply gave it this aura.

[bean19]

Just an interjection:

The reason why people are lining up for the Xbox 360 isn't the games, which have had a largely mediocre reception. It's the graphics, and the next-generation appeal. Being the only new home console this Christmas (and increased consumer interest in video games) plus limited supply gave it this aura.

It was the games for me. I'm just now beating Kameo. Had a great time with Condemned. . . and I play PDZ almost nightly for it's multiplayer.

DoA 4 was also a must have for me, but to be honest, I'm really disappointed. The game for me was always about the cool counters, throws, and attacks. . . but now they've made countering so difficult that I'd have to spend a ton of time learning every characters combination attacks to first block them before getting off a counter at the slower "end" move as they are all multi-directional now and thus you must know whether it is a punch or a kick that is coming and which of three hit boxes it is aimed at before attempting a counter or you merely open yourself up. Unless they go back to the simple mechanic of pressing back and counter (while having good timing too), I won't be picking up any future games in the series. I don't have the time or inclination to become that hardcore at that game. . . I think raising the skill plateau shouldn't leave previous fans of the series gimped. They could have accomplished the same feat by making awesomeness attainable by diehards while not gimping casual players. . . like Soul Calibur has done.

[MasterKwan]

Any study of Japan notes their insular ways. Even company managers that have been sent overseas to manage Japanese companies are often sidelined when they come back because they've become too "western". Until the economy tanked in Japan, you were employed for life by one company and there was no mobility between different companies because, they didn't want you bringing another (japanese) company's values with you. They still don't accept responsibilty for the atrocities commited by their armies in WWII ("Rape of Nanking") and don't even really admit that they started it (which is why they're hated by the Chinese and Koreans who were typically the victims). They don't permit anything but, the most limited immigration and even people who've lived there their whole lives but, aren't ethnic japanese can't become citizens.

I can backup every statement I've made here. A little google research will show you I'm speaking nothing but, facts.

Now, if that's not an example of Xenophobia I don't know what it is. I don't dislike the Japanese. In many way's they're admirable people. I like Japanese products and I like Japanese games and anime. But, they are what they are. Of course the Japanese who post here are going to try to white wash it.

I don't think this is the only reason the 360 tanked. I do believe it's a factor though. They are, as someone pointed out "brand loyal bitches". Maybe if we had some of that over here, we'd still have some manufacturing jobs in the US.

[Kefkataran]

Quoted, not for truth, but for ignorance.

Hahahaha. Love to see people replying who obviously haven't read the article, eh?

It was the games for me. I'm just now beating Kameo. Had a great time with Condemned. . . and I play PDZ almost nightly for it's multiplayer.

It's very good to hear that, and X360 does have a number of fine titles. But I'd still say you're probably, sadly, in the minority and Blade's point holds for the majority. Probably not most the people at EvAv, as it is, but that's why this place is actually good for game discussion. ;)

[Groo]

It's very good to hear that, and X360 does have a number of fine titles. But I'd still say you're probably, sadly, in the minority and Blade's point holds for the majority. Probably not most the people at EvAv, as it is, but that's why this place is actually good for game discussion. ;)

Actually, I think that anyone who actually puts some time into playing the Xbox 360's titles will agree with bean19. Games like Call of Duty 2, Condemned, Kameo, etc. didn't really interest me at first. But, I actually tried playing them, and found out that they were really good.

[Coolnut]

Perigon and Cyrano and MasterKwan, couldn't have said it better.

Perhaps beating a dead horse here, but a bit of googling found out how hostile Japan is to foreigners:

Japan mulls multicultural dawn (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3708098.stm)

Add a declining birth rate (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4552010.stm), fueled by racial purity, and you have real problems, culturally and economically, in the very near future. Japan is officially the first country to hold a rate of decrease in recent times. Maybe that's why they're making a huge push into robotics.

Of course, not to say I don't like them, but can't they be a bit more... open?

It's hard to really tell what this will do to the future of gaming. A cultural rift, to say the least. A nightmare scenario might have Sony holding a large majority market share in Japan and Microsoft holding a large majority market share in the West. With one refusing to relinqush ground to the other, it's likely that BOTH will lose money.

Who knows, Nintendo might be a distant third in console sales, but they might be the only ones laughing as they're the only ones turning in a profit.

A final interesting note I just found out: To call a Japanese person a Korean or Chinese is actually worse than calling a black a "n*gger".

[Heretic Machine]

And don't forget about their persistent hate of the Burakuman ethnicity. They still keep lists of the Burakuman since they have interbred a bit, and if you are found to be Burakuman (or of some Burakuman heritage) you may find that you can't get a job, and can't marry a "regular" Japanese person. Many Burakumans have to live in small, rural communities, poverty stricken for life because their own country won't accept them.

[kokyunage]

Add a declining birth rate, fueled by racial purity, and you have real problems, culturally and economically, in the very near future. Japan is officially the first country to hold a rate of decrease in recent times. Maybe that's why they're making a huge push into robotics.

There is no DIRECT colloration between those two. You are full of shit. Many countries have declining birthrates: Russia, Italy, in fact, most of europe.

Does that mean they are all ultra nationalistic and racists? No, it just means that they are fucking less or using more protection.

And don't forget about their persistent hate of the Burakuman ethnicity. They still keep lists of the Burakuman since they have interbred a bit, and if you are found to be Burakuman (or of some Burakuman heritage) you may find that you can't get a job, and can't marry a "regular" Japanese person. Many Burakumans have to live in small, rural communities, poverty stricken for life because their own country won't accept them.

::sigh:: is this going to get into a shouting match of which country abuses it's minorities more? Because there is plenty evidence for every country, include the good old Red White and Blue. So, think before you want to start going that path.

[Heretic Machine]

There is no DIRECT colloration between those two. You are full of shit. Many countries have declining birthrates: Russia, Italy, in fact, most of europe.

Their birth rate is negative though. As in, their population is shrinking, rather than growing, which is something exclusive to Japan.

::sigh:: is this going to get into a shouting match of which country abuses it's minorities more? Because there is plenty evidence for every country, include the good old Red White and Blue. So, think before you want to start going that path.

In America we throw shit-fits over saying the wrong word. Racism effecting every day-life is a quite a bit exagerated. I've had black proffessors, black class-mates, black neighbors. Plenty of asian proffessors, which pretty much dominate the entire engineering department at my school, along with indians (not Native-Americans). Things are getting better every day too. Burakuman are outcasts, just a couple of steps above their roots as an "unclean" caste in Japanese society, and all signs point to them staying that way until their heritage is eventually phased out of existence all together. If you ever happen to visit Japan, why don't you ask them what a Burakuman is and see what kind of response you get. Most reports come back with a "We don't like to talk about that."

You say what you want, but that country is pretty damn backwards in a lot of ways. The fact that there are people being born in that country of Chinese and Korean decent, who will live there their entire life without citizenship, is a bit of a problem.

But of course some people are either too politically correct, or too caught up in Japanese pop-culture to see the problems with REAL Japanese culture and society...

[Kefkataran]

Their birth rate is negative though. As in, their population is shrinking, rather than growing, which is something exclusive to Japan.

As interesting as that fact is, you present no proof (nor even much of a compelling argument) that it's fueled by racial purity. The rest of your post points out some good facts though. Worth considering at least.

[Heretic Machine]

As interesting as that fact is, you present no proof (nor even much of a compelling argument) that it's fueled by racial purity. The rest of your post points out some good facts though. Worth considering at least.

...Well, I don't have any documents to back it up with, if that's what you're wanting. If that's the case, then I recommend you look around for yourself. I'm just telling you what I was taught by a proffessor in my JPN 334 class. He's been to Japan many times, written books on the subject of Japan, and even knows many of their leaders.

Though, I'm not the one who said that their declining birth rate is about racial purity. My proffessor said it was caused by the following: Rise in average marriage age of women, changes in life styles, progress of women in the work place, and women in the child bareing age group represent a lower precentage of overall population. Though, he wasn't able to explain why the US's birth rate didn't decline in a similar fashion when begining to work here, or at least not to an extent that it completly justified those reasons exclusivley. He did say that women tend to stop working all together once they have children, and so they are reluctent to have kids, while in America women tend to continue working.

These aren't the only problems with Japan either... Did you know that the country has been run by a single political party since WWII? This party takes advantage of the system in many ways to keep theirselves in power, often at the expense of the average Japanese citizen. They never redraw their voting lines, and so as people have moved out of rural areas and into urban areas, those areas didn't gain more "points" for their equivalent to our Electoral College. So now, a person living in a rural area has about five times the voting power to a person living in Tokyo. Since this is the case, this party becomes submissive to the demands of the agricultural lobbyists. In turn, legislation is passed that keeps the rural areas happy at the expense of the majority of their population.

Of course, this is straying from the topic of Japanese nationalism and it's effects on the game industry...

[bean19]

Perigon - Actually, I'm willing to bet that the analogy is pretty correct. There are plenty of peopel who do not condone cross-racial marriage still in our country, and moving up the corporate and social ladder is certainly possible for minorities who gain education, and more importantly (and difficultly) conform to the "white" corporate/professional/academic culture. I'm willing to bet that the same is true of Barakuman.

Of if you really want to compare equal rights, look at how we treat homosexuals. They are by far the most poorly treated minority in our culture of hypocritical puritanism. . . in different ways, of course as homosexuals do not have any problems climbing social or economic ladders.

Are you not painting Japan by their worst offenders? That's like saying all Americans are Ku Klux Klan members or that all Afghanis are terrorists.

Btw, since you seem to know quite a bit about Japanese culture. What is up with all the cartoon sex? What is all that about?

[Kefkataran]

Though, I'm not the one who said that their declining birth rate is about racial purity.

Ack, good call. My bad there.

My limited knowledge of Japanese politics mostly comes from Haruki Murakami novels which, while mostly accurate I think, don't focus too intensely on politics.

[Heretic Machine]

Perigon - Actually, I'm willing to bet that the analogy is pretty correct. There are plenty of peopel who do not condone cross-racial marriage still in our country, and moving up the corporate and social ladder is certainly possible for minorities who gain education, and more importantly (and difficultly) conform to the "white" corporate/professional/academic culture. I'm willing to bet that the same is true of Barakuman.

Of if you really want to compare equal rights, look at how we treat homosexuals. They are by far the most poorly treated minority in our culture of hypocritical puritanism. . . in different ways, of course as homosexuals do not have any problems climbing social or economic ladders.

Are you not painting Japan by their worst offenders? That's like saying all Americans are Ku Klux Klan members or that all Afghanis are terrorists.

Btw, since you seem to know quite a bit about Japanese culture. What is up with all the cartoon sex? What is all that about?

I'm not painting them by their worst offenders, I'm giving you what was told to me as the opinions of the general populace. I think racism in the US has become something that a minority of the people do to any real extent. And I agree, we treat homosexuals badly, but that is slowly improving. I hope that in my lifetime, they become widely accepted. We do see gay characters on television these days, portrayed in a good way more often than not. Though, they are often stereotypes.

As for having to conform to the expectations of America's business world... we all have to do that. No, I don't agree with it, I would love to be able to keep my pony tail forever, but I know that I'll need to cut it off one of these days to get any kind of real job. I'll be expected to wear a suit and tie every day instead of throwing on a t-shirt, a pair of jeans, and my leather jacket. You may say that it's different, but I don't think it is. They aren't asking people to give up their race, just to conform to the executive culture.

[EvilBob46]

Funny how it was sold out every time I went to Gamestop or one of the two Wal-marts I've been visiting over winter break.

Funny how you going to local stores doesn't mean anything when it comes to actually meassuring real sales data.

http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=5899

Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King - ~84,000 in the entire month of its release. For the premiere J-RPG of the last year that's not good, especially with the positive press.

Yes, but they are in China, Korea, Europe, Australia, North America, and probably South America. Who knows about Africa, I don't know if they have a gaming community.

America's obsession with First Person shooters doesn't translate to the Japanese market because FPS games are not popular over there. The success of the genre elsewhere has nothing to do with that.

[Heretic Machine]

America's obsession with First Person shooters doesn't translate to the Japanese market because FPS games are not popular over there.

...Let me simplify what you just said.

FPS's are popular in America but in Japan FPS's aren't popular because in Japan they aren't popular.

You might want to add some logic to that statement.

The success of the genre elsewhere has nothing to do with that.

It means that it isn't an AMERICAN obssession, it's something that people enjoy all around the world, excluding a single island country who's populace may or may not be prone to motion sickness.

EDIT: Oh, and according to your link DQ8 sold close to 1/4 as much as the top selling game this year. That's not a bad thing at all, far from being a flop. Especially considering that Enix didn't bother porting that series to America most of the time.

[Steele Johnson]

...What exactly do you think makes them "close to playing a pc game"? Seriously, what makes Splinter Cell so much more "PC-like" than Metal Gear Solid? Kameo more PC than Jak? Kill Zone compared to Halo?

I think this is a bullshit argument, unless you think having decent online support makes a game too "PC-like."

Sure, there are a few, but the majority of the games that the Japanese like to play are not the type that most pc gamers play.

Here's the top 20 most wanted console titles in Japan:

1 Final Fantasy XII Square Enix PS2
2 Kingdom Hearts 2 Square Enix PS2
3 Mother 3 Nintendo GBA
4 Metal Gear Solid 4 Konami PS3
5 Biohazard 4 Capcom PS2
6 Kimi Kiss Enterbrain PS2
7 Final Fantasy III Square Enix NDS
8 Blue Dragon Microsoft X360
9 Monster Hunter 2 Capcom PS2
10 Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Nintendo GC
11 Sengoku Musou 2 Koei PS2
12 Devil Summoner: Kuzunoha Raidou Atlus PS2
13 Dead or Alive 4 Tecmo X360
14 Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII Square Enix PS2
15 Phantasy Star Universe Sega GBA
16 Xenosaga Episode III Namco PS2
17 Genso Suikoden V Konami PS2
18 Pokemon Diamond / Pearl Pokemon NDS
19 Ar-Toneliko: Sekai no Owari de Shi Tsudzukeru Shoujo Banpresto PS2
20 Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams Capcom PS2

Do those look like your average pc games, you twit? Now what are most Americans looking to play on their 360? Think about it.

[Kelegacy]

Sure, there are a few, but the majority of the games that the Japanese like to play are not the type that most pc gamers play.

Here's the top 20 most wanted console titles in Japan:

1 Final Fantasy XII Square Enix PS2
2 Kingdom Hearts 2 Square Enix PS2
3 Mother 3 Nintendo GBA
4 Metal Gear Solid 4 Konami PS3
5 Biohazard 4 Capcom PS2
6 Kimi Kiss Enterbrain PS2
7 Final Fantasy III Square Enix NDS
8 Blue Dragon Microsoft X360
9 Monster Hunter 2 Capcom PS2
10 Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Nintendo GC
11 Sengoku Musou 2 Koei PS2
12 Devil Summoner: Kuzunoha Raidou Atlus PS2
13 Dead or Alive 4 Tecmo X360
14 Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII Square Enix PS2
15 Phantasy Star Universe Sega GBA
16 Xenosaga Episode III Namco PS2
17 Genso Suikoden V Konami PS2
18 Pokemon Diamond / Pearl Pokemon NDS
19 Ar-Toneliko: Sekai no Owari de Shi Tsudzukeru Shoujo Banpresto PS2
20 Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams Capcom PS2

Do those look like your average pc games, you twit? Now what are most Americans looking to play on their 360? Think about it.

I want to play most of those games, too. Minus DoA and Pokemon anyway. Any good games for the DS in the near future? I hope it's not another famine like I fear.

[Heretic Machine]

Do you happen to have a source for that list, Steele?

[easi]

I'm just telling you what I was taught by a proffessor in my JPN 334 class.

So basically you know nothing about Japan or it's people and are parroting the views of someone who doesn't even live there.

As far as 'atrocities' go, they are irrelevant to today's generation. Unless you'd like to bring up the double-nuking of countless innocent civilians. That's pretty ATROCIOUS.

[Heretic Machine]

So basically you know nothing about Japan or it's people and are parroting the views of someone who doesn't even live there.

You know a lot more do you? You know more than a guy who lived there for over ten years and has visited there frequently since then? Someone who has dedicated his life to the study of that country? I'm sure you do, I mean I bet you get a lot of Japanese history from FFX-2.

As far as 'atrocities' go, they are irrelevant to today's generation. Unless you'd like to bring up the double-nuking of countless innocent civilians. That's pretty ATROCIOUS.

Umm... the stuff I was talking about is current. Though, if you want to talk about the past, we could bring up the practice by the Japanese to enslave Korean women to please their military during WWII, which they still say is a lie despite evidence to the contrary. Or the brutal invasion of China by the Japanese in WWII that involved the whole-sale rape and slaughter of innocent Chinese civilians.

[Banacek]

This thread is proof that the internet is full of dicks, just like your mom is.. :)

/wasn't this thread about games?

[easi]

Or the brutal invasion of China by the Japanese in WWII that involved the whole-sale rape and slaughter of innocent Chinese civilians.

Greatly exaggerated by China and right-wing American assholes who can't get over the pwning they got at Pearl Harbour.

[Heretic Machine]

Greatly exaggerated by China and right-wing American assholes who can't get over the pwning they got at Pearl Harbour.

...You might be the stupidest person on the internet. Definetly the stupidest I've ever come across. Maybe you and Mel Gibson can get together some time and talk about how the holocaust is an exageration.

[easi]

6 million does seem a little high.

[riposte101]

Perigon, you bring up a lot of really valid points that I hadn't thought about. Thanks for posting, I've learned a lot and started doing some googling for additional research.

[Kefkataran]

Here's the top 20 most wanted console titles in Japan:

1 Final Fantasy XII Square Enix PS2
2 Kingdom Hearts 2 Square Enix PS2
3 Mother 3 Nintendo GBA
4 Metal Gear Solid 4 Konami PS3
5 Biohazard 4 Capcom PS2
6 Kimi Kiss Enterbrain PS2
7 Final Fantasy III Square Enix NDS
8 Blue Dragon Microsoft X360
9 Monster Hunter 2 Capcom PS2
10 Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Nintendo GC
11 Sengoku Musou 2 Koei PS2
12 Devil Summoner: Kuzunoha Raidou Atlus PS2
13 Dead or Alive 4 Tecmo X360
14 Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII Square Enix PS2
15 Phantasy Star Universe Sega GBA
16 Xenosaga Episode III Namco PS2
17 Genso Suikoden V Konami PS2
18 Pokemon Diamond / Pearl Pokemon NDS
19 Ar-Toneliko: Sekai no Owari de Shi Tsudzukeru Shoujo Banpresto PS2
20 Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams Capcom PS2

This hardly seems scientific. :) But as someone else said, I'm looking forward to a lot of those games as well. And I'm a PC gamer. ;)

Greatly exaggerated by China and right-wing American assholes who can't get over the pwning they got at Pearl Harbour.

Holy christ, you're stupid.

[EvilBob46]

It means that it isn't an AMERICAN obssession, it's something that people enjoy all around the world, excluding a single island country who's populace may or may not be prone to motion sickness.

Microsoft, having a FPS game as their mascot (Halo), and a FPS game as their #1 launch game (PDZ) isn't going to make a big impression on the Japanse gamers because...FPS games aren't popular over there?

Oh, and according to your link DQ8 sold close to 1/4 as much as the top selling game this year. That's not a bad thing at all, far from being a flop. Especially considering that Enix didn't bother porting that series to America most of the time.

No, 88,000 copies for the premiere J-RPG of 2005 is terrible. End of discussion. And it didn't sell anywhere close to 1/4 of the best selling game of this year. Those numbers were just for the month of November. Some games on the list have anywhere from 600,000-900,000 copies sold, whereas DQVIII completely fell of the charts in December. I assume it's grand total to be 95,000 or something. With the FFXII Demo, the marketing campaign from Square (magazine ads in Electronic Gaming Monthly and others for months, a TV ad, etc.) and the excellent reviews all around it wasn't successful. Hardly any J-RPGs were this year.

[bjornbarspingvinen]

I really do think they have a thing against non-japanese console makers, not that there have been to many though (3do, microsoft). But I think it´s because they believe so strongly in their own products. Then again I don´t believe any company outside Japan can sell good there, as long as Nintendo and Sony are alive .

... weird thing about the failures ;Saturn, Dreamcast,Pc Engine... all sold good in japan.

[mister_slim]

iPod is not a good example... as far as I know that is about the only US product that really sells well in Japan. Try selling some US cars in Japan :)
Have you ever read up on the introduction of Japanese cars into the US? It took years of demonstrating that Japanese cars were vastly superior to the American cars at the time. VW seems to be doing alright in Japan, by the way.

[Heretic Machine]

VW seems to be doing alright in Japan, by the way.

Which is a German car company, that does well pretty much everywhere as far as I know.

[Kefkataran]

Which is a German car company, that does well pretty much everywhere as far as I know.

Just like FPSes? If the argument is that Japanese nationalism prevents foreign companies such as Microsoft from doing well, the fact that a German car company is doing well still would matter.

[mister_slim]

This hardly seems scientific. :) But as someone else said, I'm looking forward to a lot of those games as well. And I'm a PC gamer. ;)
That looks like the Famitsu list, by the way.

[Kefkataran]

That looks like the Famitsu list, by the way.

Does that make it scientific? I'm not very familiar with the list, so I dunno, but it seems to that any list claming to be the 'most wanted' anything for a whole country couldn't be anything to base assumptions like this on.

[Eon]

Btw, since you seem to know quite a bit about Japanese culture. What is up with all the cartoon sex? What is all that about?

Seeing as Peri didn't pick this one up I'll answer it for you. When Macarthur wrote the Japanese constitution after World War II ended he threw in so much anti-porn legislation that just about the only way you could show penetrative sex was to make the appendage not part of a human body - hence the naughty tentacle was born during the great Pron surge that happened world wide with the introduction of the VCR.

Now, about those American Cars... They're crap for any society that doesn't have the low, low petrol prices that exist in America. American cars are overspecced, inefficient, too expensive, physically too big for Euro/Jap cities and poorly made in comparison to their peers from Japan and Europe. Don't get me wrong, there are some SHITE Euro and Japanese cars too, but the likes of Mercedes, BMW, VW and Jaguar are world renowned for quality, price, efficiency and reliability.

[Kefkataran]

Now, about those American Cars... They're crap for any society that doesn't have the low, low petrol prices that exist in America. American cars are overspecced, inefficient, too expensive, physically too big for Euro/Jap cities and poorly made in comparison to their peers from Japan and Europe. Don't get me wrong, there are some SHITE Euro and Japanese cars too, but the likes of Mercedes, BMW, VW and Jaguar are world renowned for quality, price, efficiency and reliability.

Also worth considering, I'd guess, that (partially because of the price of gas and partially because of other factors, I'm sure) Japanese people generally just drive lots less than Americans.

[MasterKwan]

I wouldn't put Mercedes on that "Quaility" list. They rate lower than Hundai on most quality surveys. Mercedes lost their way and squandered decades of good will by putting out shit for the past 5 years. Only now, at the cost of billions in investment in QC are they turning it around again. I'd probably buy a new Mercedes, I wouldn't touch a 2 year old one. BMW has problems too. They don't seem to be able to build a front suspension that last more than 30K miles. On the M3, that means all the front control arms have to be replace at the tune of $2K+ US (since they're aluminum you can't just replace the bushings).

Most American car's aren't available in right hand drive. Why would a Japanese or British person buy a car with the drivers side on the wrong side? It was a big deal when the ZO6 Vette this year was available in right hand drive. It signaled that GM was going to try exporting them.

You guys are kind of harsh on American vehicles, there are some that are world class (Ford Focus for one). I have foreign cars and I have an F150. The F150 has been easily as reliable as any of my Japanese cars.

[mister_slim]

Does that make it scientific? I'm not very familiar with the list, so I dunno, but it seems to that any list claming to be the 'most wanted' anything for a whole country couldn't be anything to base assumptions like this on.
It's based on weekly surveys of gamers and retailers, if I remember correctly. It's not authoritative, but it's about as good as you're going to get.