GameFly Responds to Xbox 360 Disc Scratching Issues

[fitbabits]

Thanks to Gamasutra (http://www.gamasutra.com) for the news (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=7651).

The disc scratching problem is evidently widespread enough that GameFly has prepared a 'form letter' to send to all consumers who return Xbox 360 discs with defects on them, commenting:

"We have received reports that certain XBOX 360 consoles have caused damage to GameFly videogames. Unfortunately, we have been notified that you recently returned a damaged XBOX 360 game.

As a precaution, we have removed all XBOX 360 games from your GameQ. Please contact Microsoft at 1-800-4MY-XBOX. Please do not rent XBOX 360 games until you have resolved this issue.

In the future, should GameFly receive XBOX 360 games from you that have been damaged, you will be charged a replacement fee."
Damn, that's a pretty harsh form letter. Anyone here received this form letter or experienced any other related problems with GameFly?

[Nite_Moogle]

Dag, that sucks... though I guess Gamefly can't exactly fix those discs or keep buying new ones if people's 360s are screwed up. Hooray for growing pains!

[Hignaki]

Aren't you charged a fee if disks are scratched at all, even under normal circumstances? I don't see a problem with this: if idiots move their consoles while the disk is spinning, they deserve to pay a fee.

[doubtingthomas]

I used gamefly for a short while, and liked it. I'd still be using it, except I just don't play as many console games as I used to.

[rein]

Aren't you charged a fee if disks are scratched at all, even under normal circumstances? I don't see a problem with this: if idiots move their consoles while the disk is spinning, they deserve to pay a fee.

I have a friend whose 360 scratched disks. He did not move his. I have also seen many other reports of games being scratched even when the 360 is not being moved. It is a problem that would have been extremely inexpensive for Microsoft to fix. Now you have to void your warranty to fix it.

[pdeupree]

The one problem I see here is if someone returns a disc without reporting it as being damaged, so then it moves on to someone else.

I've gotten two DVD's now from Netflix that were broken when they arrived (as in cracked in half). I returned them reporting them broken, but I've always wondered how Netflix knows if I broken them somehow, if the person before me broke them in some way, or if they got broken in the mail.

Not everyone is knowledgeable enough to report a problem, or courteous enough to do so. I guess Gamefly might verify each return, but I don't know what their rental volume is and what effort it would take to do that.

[doyama]

Considering the tepid response the 360 is getting in Japan, if they even get a wiff that they are scratching discs AGAIN, you can consider the 360 pretty much dead in Japan. They were never very forgiving when the original batch of xboxes were doing that and you can bet they're not going to be too forgiving for the same mistake twice

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

I lost a game once and told Gamefly and they didnt charge me or anything, just sent the next game. lol @ MS though...

[EL CABONG]

I did use gamefly. I had three games never get to me all at once their was about amonth or so and got no games( I had gamefly for about 4 months and never had a problem till then). I told them after about 2 weeks that I never got the games and they never replyied till after my next bill then they canceled my account. they suk .I use netflix and the turn around is like way better as is with gotoplay on sending disk back and getting a new one.

[Rirath]

Tried Gamefly... was ok, but I'd be way more impressed if they had more distros across the US like Netflix.

[Deadend]

I think Gamefly would be better if they just attached themselves to Netflix. Better UI, distros and so on.

I think this whole thing is quite fair. If your Xbox keeps screwing up their discs, you should QUIT WITH THE RENTING!

[Rommel]

For the record: The current ad on the side of the main page is for "Do you like Horny Bunnies 2." In case you did not notice.

[Pigeon]

I didn't notice, it took me 10 refreshes to get it!

[Genital Eclipse]

I'm actually highly unimpressed if I run into a front page without any sort of comment or graphic reference to horny bunnies or salted penile implants.

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

god damn, lay off the ads already. You all act like little 12 year olds who are scared their mommy might walk in.

[Groo]

god damn, lay off the ads already. You all act like little 12 year olds who are scared their mommy might walk in.

For real. A little sexual content never hurt anyone.

[Adewade]

For real. A little sexual content never hurt anyone.


Please, don't touch this quote, guys.

[spacerat100]

your mom touched a little sexual content

[holycrapper]

whatever, eventually ea will sell out entirely like ign, and we will all move to the next one.

[Dark Hamlet]

Anyway...back on topic... I think Microsoft should have just built a better machine to begin with, thus avoiding any problems like this. I mean, it's not too much to ask. Even if some people are dumb enough to flip their 360's around while they have a game running, the discs shouldn't get scratched to hell.

These kind of problems are probably easily fixable. In fact, it would not surprise me if second generation xbox 360's didn't have this problem. But why not safeguard against it in the first generation units? It is possible to do. I can almost guarantee you that first generation Revolutions will not scratch disks when you change their orientation while they are running.

My point is that this is an easily avoidable problem, so why not avoid it?

[Buddha Lotus]

Is there going to be an end to XBOX 360's problems in the near future?.. or are these going to keep coming?

[Maskatron]

Are rhetorical questions worth answering? You don't have to answer.

[bapenguin]

I'd be curious to here numbers from Gamefly on exactly how many discs are getting scratched. I have blockbuster online and I can't believe how many problems I've had with scratched discs. In fact, I started a thread on it a few weeks ago on here...what do these people do with them?!?!?

[Heretic Machine]

What?! I can't ballroom dance with my 360 while it's on? OH NOES!?!!?!

[AspectVoid]

I've had Gamefly for something like two years now, and I've only had a problem once, in that I was sent the wrong game. The shipped the correct game out to me the day they got my email about it, not waiting for me to get the wrong game back to them.

As for the canceled account thing, that happened to a friend of mine. What Gamefly told him was that because its impossible for them to judge whether a game was truly lost in the mail or the person who reported it lost just wants to keep it without paying, after three lost discs they cancel the account. It's a cost saving thing, you know?

[Dakar]

I think for the movie rental companies, they largely take the "assume the current customer did not scratch the disk" approach. Unless it becomes a recurring problem with a customer, it is cheaper to replace a movie compared to the cost of replacing a game.

[Jacob Singer]

Anyway...back on topic... I think Microsoft should have just built a better machine to begin with, thus avoiding any problems like this. I mean, it's not too much to ask. Even if some people are dumb enough to flip their 360's around while they have a game running, the discs shouldn't get scratched to hell.

These kind of problems are probably easily fixable. In fact, it would not surprise me if second generation xbox 360's didn't have this problem. But why not safeguard against it in the first generation units? It is possible to do. I can almost guarantee you that first generation Revolutions will not scratch disks when you change their orientation while they are running.

My point is that this is an easily avoidable problem, so why not avoid it?

I love posts like these. "Oh, I know for a fact these problems are avoidable! Micro$oft probably did this ON PURPOSE, to, um, you know, make their customers angry! Yeah, that's the ticket! Why, oh why can't they be more like the noble Nintendo company?"

Sheesh.

[Lutheran]

And you all wonder why Nintendo likes carts instead of DVD's , less problems!!! :)

[Mozain]

I love posts like these. "Oh, I know for a fact these problems are avoidable! Micro$oft probably did this ON PURPOSE, to, um, you know, make their customers angry! Yeah, that's the ticket! Why, oh why can't they be more like the noble Nintendo company?"

Sheesh.
I just wonder how people think that this issue is not avoidable? Hell you can use a portable DVD player, move it around all you want and not scratch discs. Even a portable CD player from like 6 years ago won't scratch discs when you move them. And, as I am sure we are all aware miscrosoft products are inherently of poor quality, thats just the way it is and always has been. They are just so wide spread they can do it without a second thought. Though this issue will not stop me from buying a 360 (With extended warrenty I might add). I mean you can't complain about every time some company punishes its users for using their products, if you do you'll go crazy ^_^, and if you don't like it/can't deal with it, then don't buy the product, simple as that. I know it sounds stupid but I've come to accept the fact that you cannot expect most companies to act in a decent mannor or even put out a reasonably good product most of the time.

[Groo]

And you all wonder why Nintendo likes carts instead of DVD's , less problems!!! :)

Because storage space and manufacturing costs aren't problems with carts...

The problem is that people treat their games like shit. They leave their games sitting out on the floor, etc. when they're not playing them. This is the only way my games have gotten scratched. If a game only spends time in its case, and in the console, there's no reason for it to get scratched (unless you stupidly flip your Xbox 360 around).

[BabyJesus]

I just wonder how people think that this issue is not avoidable? Hell you can use a portable DVD player, move it around all you want and not scratch discs. Even a portable CD player from like 6 years ago won't scratch discs when you move them. And, as I am sure we are all aware miscrosoft products are inherently of poor quality, thats just the way it is and always has been. They are just so wide spread they can do it without a second thought. Though this issue will not stop me from buying a 360 (With extended warrenty I might add). I mean you can't complain about every time some company punishes its users for using their products, if you do you'll go crazy ^_^, and if you don't like it/can't deal with it, then don't buy the product, simple as that. I know it sounds stupid but I've come to accept the fact that you cannot expect most companies to act in a decent mannor or even put out a reasonably good product most of the time.

Did you ever think that the devices you mentioned are DESIGNED specifically to be carried on your hip/body so as not to damage disks. Any PORTABLE device is designed to be portable. I bet the 360 was NOT designed that way. Specifically the DVD drive in an XBOX probably has a DVD drive in it that spins the disks 12-16x faster than a regular DVD player and probably 50+ times faster than your portable CD player. Try moving your PC's DVD drive around with a disk spinning in it, I bet you will at least hear it make contact with something it shouldnt. The 360/PC drives are built for RAW speed not carrinhg around with the disks needing to spin no faster than 1x.

[easi]

The problem isn't with Gamefly, it's with MS's shitbox scratching up every other disc you put in it.

[Bushi]

That is totally ridiculous. They can hold MS responsible but not a end user, for user this should fall under their normal ware and tear replacement rotation. MS has yet to admit there is even a defect.

[Buster Brownstar]

That is totally ridiculous. They can hold MS responsible but not a end user, for user this should fall under their normal ware and tear replacement rotation. MS has yet to admit there is even a defect.

Right. Since MS won't admit there's a defect, you can't expect them to work with Gamefly for any kind of compensation. Gamefly's handling of this is different from Netflix not only because games are more expensive than movies, but also because Gamefly is not the mammoth that Netflix is and because they don't have the relationships with game distributors that Netflix has with movie studios. Since Netflix shares revenue with several movie studios, I have to imagine these studios just hand them DVDs by the truckload.

If Gamefly is responsible for replacing each of these 360 discs themselves, they might just go out of business without a measure like this. Although, it seems less abrasive to just take all 360 games off their site for now. That's opposed to singling customers out and saying "You scratched our discs." They could have just said that due to the widespread scratching problems, 360 discs will be removed from queues. But then, that takes this service away from the lucky 360 owners who didn't have a hungry, hungry 360.

And enough with the lines about ballroom dancing with 360s and jumping on top of 360s. This is happening completely within the system and not at the fault of the user.

[OSX]

Dont. Put. Your 360. Vertical. Thats it. 90% of the people I have coming in to EB with scratched discs have their problems solved by simply putting it horizontal. Nothing good has ever come by putting a console vertical.

[Buster Brownstar]

Hm. Vertical PS2s did the same thing, right?

[OSX]

Not as frequently but yes, Ive seen a few do it. And stupid things, like not reading blue bottom discs when its vert, but horizontal works fine. Crazy stuff, but I've seen it first hand.

[Tony1l]

Remember the first Xbox DVD it absolutely had reoccurring problems so much in fact just Google XBOX and Thompson together and find out. Of course if you were one of the first to buy an Xbox you already know about the poor quality DVD drive. After a few years mine would no longer read new games 'out of the box' always told me that the cd was dirty. I called MS and they serviced my Xbox 'no charge' but after getting it back I found they hadn't replaced the drive but cleaned the laser. Within a week I started getting the read errors again.

Now with the 360 again MS hasn't learned that they must invest more in the dvd drive. Seems again they are going for cost savings instead of quality. I've owned a GameCube for the past 2 years and have never had a problem reading the cds. I attribute this to the hub (just as in notebook computers) which holds the cd in position. I wish MS had gone the same route.. learn your lessons from the original.

[bone_matrix]

I just wonder how people think that this issue is not avoidable? Hell you can use a portable DVD player, move it around all you want and not scratch discs. Even a portable CD player from like 6 years ago won't scratch discs when you move them. And, as I am sure we are all aware miscrosoft products are inherently of poor quality, thats just the way it is and always has been. They are just so wide spread they can do it without a second thought. Though this issue will not stop me from buying a 360 (With extended warrenty I might add). I mean you can't complain about every time some company punishes its users for using their products, if you do you'll go crazy ^_^, and if you don't like it/can't deal with it, then don't buy the product, simple as that. I know it sounds stupid but I've come to accept the fact that you cannot expect most companies to act in a decent mannor or even put out a reasonably good product most of the time.

Right, put your disc in a device that is meant to be moved, rotated, and turned, and it won't get scratched. Put it in a stationary device (dvd/cd pc drive, Xbox 360, stand alone DVD player) and it will get scratched. You know the Gamecube and PS2 slim have the "click" thing to put discs into? It holds the discs in place, where as an actual drive does not. THAT is why when you move a 360 (or anything else with an actual drive) it will scratch the disc.

[Lutheran]

Because storage space and manufacturing costs aren't problems with carts...

The problem is that people treat their games like shit. They leave their games sitting out on the floor, etc. when they're not playing them. This is the only way my games have gotten scratched. If a game only spends time in its case, and in the console, there's no reason for it to get scratched (unless you stupidly flip your Xbox 360 around).



I assume you realize I was joking but anyway I have had no issues at all with scratches on any of the games I have played so far in my 360..

[mister_slim]

The problem is that people treat their games like shit. They leave their games sitting out on the floor, etc. when they're not playing them. This is the only way my games have gotten scratched. If a game only spends time in its case, and in the console, there's no reason for it to get scratched (unless you stupidly flip your Xbox 360 around).
Then this would be a problem with all consoles, wouldn't it. I wonder why GF is picking on the poor little 360?

[ezra]

Guys guys guys. The moral of the story here is that none of us should ever play vidoegames, ever.

Here's to drinking on New Years Eve at 6 pm!!

[DOOM2099]

Crack is good for fixing scratched discs.

[Achilles]

Anyway...back on topic... I think Microsoft should have just built a better machine to begin with, thus avoiding any problems like this. I mean, it's not too much to ask. Even if some people are dumb enough to flip their 360's around while they have a game running, the discs shouldn't get scratched to hell.

These kind of problems are probably easily fixable. In fact, it would not surprise me if second generation xbox 360's didn't have this problem. But why not safeguard against it in the first generation units? It is possible to do. I can almost guarantee you that first generation Revolutions will not scratch disks when you change their orientation while they are running.

My point is that this is an easily avoidable problem, so why not avoid it?That's because the Revolution's discs will not be spinning at 12x I can almost guarentee you. Precicely because of this disc scratching problem. It's a trade-off, you want your high-content fast load times, or do you want to restrict how much can be pulled off a disc so that people don't accidentally ruin their games by tipping their console.

By the way, if a game is running, even if it’s paused or whatever, the disc will always be spinning at 12x, never slower. Watch for that, I almost scratched one yesterday while trying to pull the console out of the cabinet to give it a little more air. It made a noise but thankfully there were no scratches.

[Dark Hamlet]

I don't care how fast the discs are spinning. That is not the issue here. I understand that the faster the discs spin, the more resistance they have to being rotated, thus they can come in contact with something that will scratch them. However, I am saying that there should be some kind of physical safeguard against the discs getting scratched. For example, the disc tray could be given such a shape so that if the disc were to contact something, it would just touch the very edge of the disc. It is hard for me to imagine that something as simple as that could be difficult to implement.

By the way, does anyone know what physical part of the xbox is scratching the discs? If it is something important like the laser lens, then there will be even bigger problems when that component gets scratched enough...

[Thenetcase]

whatever, eventually ea will sell out entirely like ign, and we will all move to the next one.

Don't say scary things like that. :(

The problem is ... there isn't a "next one" like EA anywhere.

I guess maybe I should start one. I could certainly afford to run one... if I had the time to do so. :P

But frankly, no one could ever make another Evil Avatar. It's a site that's unique and cool and impossible to duplicate (unless you can duplicate people).

Anyways... :\

-TNC-

[bone_matrix]

I don't care how fast the discs are spinning. That is not the issue here. I understand that the faster the discs spin, the more resistance they have to being rotated, thus they can come in contact with something that will scratch them. However, I am saying that there should be some kind of physical safeguard against the discs getting scratched. For example, the disc tray could be given such a shape so that if the disc were to contact something, it would just touch the very edge of the disc. It is hard for me to imagine that something as simple as that could be difficult to implement.

By the way, does anyone know what physical part of the xbox is scratching the discs? If it is something important like the laser lens, then there will be even bigger problems when that component gets scratched enough...

If the 360 were set up like the PS2 slim and the Gamecube, where the disc is clicked into the system, then yes, it wouldn't matter if the system was moved, because the disc is held in place. In order to do that, you need a top loading system (like the other systems I mentioned and the Dreamcast and PS1). They didn't want to design a system that top loaded, but rather stay like the Xbox, and have a tray.

One could have a tray, like a laptop computer, but it would spring out, then after you click the disc into the fragile tray, you have to shove it back in. Plus its probably more expensive and fragile that a regular disc tray. So, we would be bitching that our drives are breaking rather than discs are being scratched when the system is being moved while a game is in.

[Neosho]

microsoft make a product with quality issues?

NEVar!S1

Jesus, come on people, MS fucked up. Get over it. It's not the end of the world that they made the same mistake twice....this time it just happens to destroy the CD rather than giving read errors. Who would have guessed.

It's not like this is a rare thing, either. Every set of first gen consoles has it's flaws, and apparently the x360 is no different. The main reason that MS is not admitting that there's a problem is because there'd be a huge amount of liability. I guess they just don't want their console department to keep losing more money...

[catkins]

I just scratched the shit out of Madden for my 360. I had the console standing up, I wonder if that is the problem?

Anyway, Madden is ruined. Oh well, it sucked.

[OSX]

IT IS!

Put it horizontal, seriously.

[Pigeon]

On the subject of portable players:
I'm glad you've had success with them. I'm just lucky that whenever I buy a cd I first rip all the songs off of it because the last 2 portable cd players I owned (a JVC and a Sony) scratched the HELL out of my cd's.