Sony Settles "Rootkit" Class Action Lawsuit

[HalLoco]

I'm sure we all saw this coming. (http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-6012173.html?tag=zdfd.newsfeed) Here's a summary of what the settlement entails:

Customers who exchange their XCP CD can either download three albums from a list of over 200 titles, or claim a cash payment of $7.50 and a free download of one album. To claim this compensation, customers must return their XCP CDs to Sony or provide the company with a receipt showing they returned or exchanged the CD at a retailer after Nov. 14.
Article linked from ZDnet. ("http://news.zdnet.com/)

[agentgray]

NO.

What about the $10k damage caused to my company by their discs. I want them to settle with the people and companies whose computers they caused damage to.

All this covers is the purchaser of the CD.

Bastards.

[Heretic Machine]

That's pretty fucking insulting, considering that these assholes broke the law and should face at least 10 years in prison for pulling a stunt like this.

[total]

So for your $15-20 cd (that oh by the way, had the potential to open you up to every hacker on the planet) Sony is going to give me $7.50 and a cd download that I might not even like or want for compensation. Sounds pretty weak to me.

[total]

That's pretty fucking insulting, considering that these assholes broke the law and should face at least 10 years in prison for pulling a stunt like this.

If an individual had done this same thing with the same tactics as Sony (forcing code onto a users computer, hiding that code from the user, and opening that computer up to hackers across the globe) they WOULD be facing jail time. I am amazed at what large corporations can get away with in this day and age.

[Dirty Harry]

NO.

What about the $10k damage caused to my company by their discs. I want them to settle with the people and companies whose computers they caused damage to.

All this covers is the purchaser of the CD.

Bastards.
I'm curious to see what exactly their rootkit did to your pc's to cause 10 k worth of hardware replacements.

[Nite_Moogle]

Thanks for buying our CDs that fucked up your computer, sorry about that, have another CD with new and improved copy protection! Really!

[kokyunage]

I'm curious to see what exactly their rootkit did to your pc's to cause 10 k worth of hardware replacements.

I think he's refering to the manhours required to fix and remove the rootkits. Either way, it doesn't matter. Sony shouldn't be liable for that. Just like Microsoft isn't liable to the damage (in man hours to fix) their products cause every fucking day. If you want reduce your companies cost, have more restrictive rules. No internet browsing, no cd's from home (whether music, software, pron, etc...).

[dr_wily]

probably talking about IT man hours it took to patch and such.

i wasnt expecting anything more.. most large corporations are rewarded for their settlements. Little overall cash to pay out, more exposure, and coupons and freebies for their services that cost them nothing. They also make it more painful than rebates to actually get something out of it..

effort > reward 99% of the time with shit like this. It's ridiculous.

[total]

I think he's refering to the manhours required to fix and remove the rootkits. Either way, it doesn't matter. Sony shouldn't be liable for that. Just like Microsoft isn't liable to the damage (in man hours to fix) their products cause every fucking day. If you want reduce your companies cost, have more restrictive rules. No internet browsing, no cd's from home (whether music, software, pron, etc...).


Sorry bud but you are dead wrong here. The difference between MS and Sony is this. You choose to install MS software knowing full well that it is full of bugs and other nasties that you will eventually have to fix. The Sony rootkit installs itself reguardless of user knowledge when that cd is inserted in a cd-rom. Now are you going to try and tell me that we can't leave cd-roms in our users PC's because Sony makes a shoddy product? I don't think so. Sony knowingly used strong arm tactics (you can decline the EULA and the root kit WILL STILL install itself) and got busted. Sony just assumed that they wouldn't get caught, or that users wouldn't make enuogh of a fuss for anything to happen. They were wrong, but still didn't really suffer any consequnces in this case.

[feeble]

lol, dont think i ever had this rootkit put on my pc.

Is there any way i can get for it, so i can see what all the fuss was about?

[DeadPixel]

I don't want to protect SONY here I'm unhappy with their tactics myself.

If you slap music CDs into your work machines and it causes 10k of damage, you just learned a very valuable lesson. It's like going after ID software cause DOOM2 broadcast packets bring down your office subnet. Very ammusing indeed.

[AspectVoid]

Sorry bud but you are dead wrong here. The difference between MS and Sony is this. You choose to install MS software knowing full well that it is full of bugs and other nasties that you will eventually have to fix. The Sony rootkit installs itself reguardless of user knowledge when that cd is inserted in a cd-rom. Now are you going to try and tell me that we can't leave cd-roms in our users PC's because Sony makes a shoddy product? I don't think so. Sony knowingly used strong arm tactics (you can decline the EULA and the root kit WILL STILL install itself) and got busted. Sony just assumed that they wouldn't get caught, or that users wouldn't make enuogh of a fuss for anything to happen. They were wrong, but still didn't really suffer any consequnces in this case.

Actually, the company who allowed their employees to play the music CDs is at fault here. Sony did not go to everyone who bought the CDs and hold a gun to their heads forcing them to play the CDs on computers. Had the company banned playing music CDs on the computers, then this never would have happened.

I see it as sort of like how you can't sue a beer company successfully because your son was killed by a drunk driver. The person who drunk the beer and drove was at fault. In this case, the person who bought the CD and put it in the computer is at fault.

[total]

I don't want to protect SONY here I'm unhappy with their tactics myself.

If you slap music CDs into your work machines and it causes 10k of damage, you just learned a very valuable lesson. It's like going after ID software cause DOOM2 broadcast packets bring down your office subnet. Very ammusing indeed.


Again, that isn't really how it works. This root kit installs itself without user authorization once inserted into a cd-rom. If you choose to install it (even by simply accepting a EULA) then you are in the wrong. Sony forcefully installs code once the cd is inserted. What they did was illegal, period. You can't watch your users all the time, and you can't pull every cd-rom from every PC on even a small business without causing yourself a huge headache. What most admins do is restrict users usage, so you can't install anything on a PC. Sony's root kit circumvents even that. Very very illegal.

[Selar]

Actually, the company who allowed their employees to play the music CDs is at fault here. Sony did not go to everyone who bought the CDs and hold a gun to their heads forcing them to play the CDs on computers. Had the company banned playing music CDs on the computers, then this never would have happened.

I see it as sort of like how you can't sue a beer company successfully because your son was killed by a drunk driver. The person who drunk the beer and drove was at fault. In this case, the person who bought the CD and put it in the computer is at fault.

You're missing the part where the rootkit is installed pretty much without your knowledge (hidden in EULA speak and not even outright explained in the EULA). Also, it is also installed even if you clicked "I do not agree" to the EULA. Your beer analogy is flawed because the person chose to drink that beer, knowing that it was beer. I think it's a reasonable expectation that putting a music CD into your CD-ROM would make it play music, not install malicious software.

*edit* Let's not forget we're talking about a music CD here. There was a time when I would have thought that nothing could be safer to put into your computer than a music CD.

[total]

Actually, the company who allowed their employees to play the music CDs is at fault here. Sony did not go to everyone who bought the CDs and hold a gun to their heads forcing them to play the CDs on computers. Had the company banned playing music CDs on the computers, then this never would have happened.

I see it as sort of like how you can't sue a beer company successfully because your son was killed by a drunk driver. The person who drunk the beer and drove was at fault. In this case, the person who bought the CD and put it in the computer is at fault.


I am going to help you here. Installing software on a users PC without their knowledge or acceptance (most companies get you with a EULA, which basically says that by installing this software you are giving up all rights) is illegal in almost every civalized country on the planet. That is typically why hackers end up in jail here in the states. Even if you disable the ability to play music cds on a users computer, even if they somehow get past your block and decline the EULA this root kit installs itself and then hides itself. That is illegal, cut and dry, and that is why they are settling. There is no argument here, stupid user or not, what Sony did was illegal.

[GrinR]

I am amazed at what large corporations can get away with in this day and age.

LOL. HISTORY = FAIL.

[kokyunage]

Hmmm...didn't know the rootkit installed itself even if you didn't accept the eula. Well, that changes things...

[Selar]

Hmmm...didn't know the rootkit installed itself even if you didn't accept the eula. Well, that changes things...

Yeah, this thing is a freaking virus, plain and simple.

[DeadPixel]

I bought a new Packard Bell, plugged it into my US Robotics Modem and instantly teleported 6 months ahead with a level 60 pally and a 50 pound man fetus in my stomach.

Nerf SHAMMIES! Blizzard FTW.

[total]

Hmmm...didn't know the rootkit installed itself even if you didn't accept the eula. Well, that changes things...

Decline the EULA and it does what it wants reguardless. I could find the site that did the testing on a few of Sony's copy protection schemes but I am leaving work right now. I am curious to know if they are going to do anything on the other scheme, because I believe this is for the XCP kit.

That is why it has been such a stink and such a headache for sys admins. I do contract consulting and want to stab Sony in the eye for this. It is ridiculous that they went this far to protect their IP. :mad:

[Loganrapp]

LOL. HISTORY = FAIL.

For the win.

[total]

I bought a new Packard Bell, plugged it into my US Robotics Modem and instantly teleported 6 months ahead with a level 60 pally and a 50 pound man fetus in my stomache.

Nerf SHAMMIES! Blizzard FTW.

Are you on the same thread as the rest of us?

[Citizen Philip]

If an individual had done this same thing with the same tactics as Sony (forcing code onto a users computer, hiding that code from the user, and opening that computer up to hackers across the globe) they WOULD be facing jail time. I am amazed at what large corporations can get away with in this day and age.

I don't think it would much of a stretch to include some new legislation:

There should be a seperation between state and business as their is a seperation of state and religion.

[agentgray]

I'm curious to see what exactly their rootkit did to your pc's to cause 10 k worth of hardware replacements.
Sure.

We didn't need to replace any hardware. We had four systems with it. An assistant and I spent almost an entire week learning about and removing this crap. Two of our systems still have it because they have critical data on them and we won't be able to get at them for some downtime for another week or two.

I don't believe it was our fault at all. I go to great pains to make it impossible for users to install programs. All four declined the EULA and still got hit. This thing even bypasses Windows Group Policies. Plus, this is an audio CD we are talking about (well, technically it's a data cd now). Could this have been prevented if we banned CDs? Maybe, but not likely. We're a multimedia publisher. Audio is a way of life. However, we do ban music CDs now for the time being. Each one has to be approved and authorized. Geesh. Even more of our time which equals more money.

It's ok, I guess because we have a companywide ban on all Sony products. Our video guys came to us the other day with specs for a Sony commercial camera. We told them no. Who knows what crap they've got on anything now. Too bad for Sony. Between blank media, hardware, and software we spent about $20k for any Sony product annually. Well, not anymore.

Sure, it may not hurt Sony's pocketbook all that much but it gives all of us here a clear head about it.

[agentgray]

Decline the EULA and it does what it wants reguardless. I could find the site that did the testing on a few of Sony's copy protection schemes but I am leaving work right now. I am curious to know if they are going to do anything on the other scheme, because I believe this is for the XCP kit.

That is why it has been such a stink and such a headache for sys admins. I do contract consulting and want to stab Sony in the eye for this. It is ridiculous that they went this far to protect their IP. :mad:
...and even went so far to cover it up with bad patches and crappy PR.

[DeadPixel]

Sure.

We didn't need to replace any hardware. We had four systems with it. An assistant and I spent almost an entire week learning about and removing this crap. Two of our systems still have it because they have critical data on them and we won't be able to get at them for some downtime for another week or two.

I don't believe it was our fault at all. I go to great pains to make it impossible for users to install programs. All four declined the EULA and still got hit. This thing even bypasses Windows Group Policies. Plus, this is an audio CD we are talking about (well, technically it's a data cd now). Could this have been prevented if we banned CDs? Maybe, but not likely. We're a multimedia publisher. Audio is a way of life. However, we do ban music CDs now for the time being. Each one has to be approved and authorized. Geesh. Even more of our time which equals more money.

It's ok, I guess because we have a companywide ban on all Sony products. Our video guys came to us the other day with specs for a Sony commercial camera. We told them no. Who knows what crap they've got on anything now. Too bad for Sony. Between blank media, hardware, and software we spent about $20k for any Sony product annually. Well, not anymore.

Sure, it may not hurt Sony's pocketbook all that much but it gives all of us here a clear head about it.

Money talks, I respect you for your actions. Less complainig more acting. I banned all SONY products and I used to love em.

[superherotaco]

I bought a new Packard Bell, plugged it into my US Robotics Modem and instantly teleported 6 months ahead with a level 60 pally and a 50 pound man fetus in my stomach.

Nerf SHAMMIES! Blizzard FTW.

Yea what the hell are you talking about? Am I just missing a very inside joke or something?

[DeadPixel]

Yea what the hell are you talking about? Am I just missing a very inside joke or something?
No no... I'm just trolling. The ROOTKIT threads just ammuse me, people bitch and complain then rush to their local BestBuy and buy another SONY product. Just wait, the same complainers will be in line for PS3, it does not suprise me.

So I post something totally useless because this thread is.

[ezra]

So I post something totally useless because this thread is.

Congratulations! You're a dumbass.


Moving on, I dont see how people can defend this at all. It was completely subversive, completely illegal, and completely malicious. Saying that this can be equated to drunk driving or installing products is complete bullshit. It was a music cd. Whoever though up this whole scheme knew damn well that people don't expect to have their computers fucked over by an audio cd. This is the software equivalent of a date rape drug, to use your alchohol analogy. They hid this little program that not only did things without the users knowledge, but unintentionally opened up the computer to any number of attacks by hackers. You can bet that this is not the last we will hear of lawsuits against Sony on this issue.

[Tennistoad]

You think the sony rootkit is bad... Just wait till you figure out the nsa rootkit on your network..

[Loganrapp]

You think the sony rootkit is bad... Just wait till you figure out the nsa rootkit on your network..


You won't.

[ezra]

I see it as sort of like how you can't sue a beer company successfully because your son was killed by a drunk driver. The person who drunk the beer and drove was at fault. In this case, the person who bought the CD and put it in the computer is at fault.

Ah, there, I found the quote.

Sorry to be an asshole, but are you retarded? Because your analogy certainly is. It might have been correct if sony had been selling CD's that had giant labels on the front saying "This CD will totally fuck up your computer! Dont ever, ever put it in the cd tray!", but they didn't did they?

Would you be pissed off if you bought a refridgerator that, without your knowledge, unlocked the doors to your home at random and fucked up your security system programming? I sure would. Just like all the people that sued sony for a fucking audio cd that messed up their computers without their knowledge or consent.

Anyways, I'm going to modify your original statement to more accurately reflect the situation.



I see it as sort of like how you can't sue a bakery successfully because your son was killed by a drunk driver who had been eating cake when suddenly the baker appeared and asked the driver if they would like a shot of 151 proof rum in their veins, and when the driver declined, he knocked him over the head and did it anyway, and then placed him in his car and turned it on for him. The person who bought the cake should have expected to have been forcefully filled with alchohol. In this case, the person who bought the CD and put it in the computer is at fault.

[GrinR]

This rootkit business is such a tempest in a teapot. Either you are a sucker in the first place for buying "protected" audio CDs (Who buys CDs anymore anyway), or you're a sucker for complaining about something that will never affect you. Oh wow, Sony's copy protection is ham-fisted. Talk about Starforce and it's checks or Blizzards checking programs... same shit different day. Whoopedy doo.

Most of you fools watched WarGames too many times and think that you're somehow safe from corporate or government intrusion because you have a fucking "CyberSafe" firewall, when in fact all of you have already been tagged and bagged a long time ago - many of you right when you were born. Social Security number? Credit card records? Drivers License FINGERPRINT requirement? Check your mail - how much of that mail is from a person you know and how much is from a robot that got your address. WAKE THE FUCK UP!

Sony CD rootkit bullshit.... OH NOEZ SONYS STOLEZ MY MEGORHURTZ!!!!111

[DeadPixel]

Congratulations! You're a dumbass.
LOLZ!

What a sucker. I hope someone makes $2000 on ebay sales of your ROOTKITTED ass. They will laugh all the way to the bank. Thanks for being born.

[A Lusty Alien]

You think the sony rootkit is bad... Just wait till you figure out the nsa rootkit on your network..

I think that one is called Windows.

:D

[Heretic Machine]

This rootkit business is such a tempest in a teapot. Either you are a sucker in the first place for buying "protected" audio CDs (Who buys CDs anymore anyway), or you're a sucker for complaining about something that will never affect you. Oh wow, Sony's copy protection is ham-fisted. Talk about Starforce and it's checks or Blizzards checking programs... same shit different day. Whoopedy doo.

Most of you fools watched WarGames too many times and think that you're somehow safe from corporate or government intrusion because you have a fucking "CyberSafe" firewall, when in fact all of you have already been tagged and bagged a long time ago - many of you right when you were born. Social Security number? Credit card records? Drivers License FINGERPRINT requirement? Check your mail - how much of that mail is from a person you know and how much is from a robot that got your address. WAKE THE FUCK UP!

Sony CD rootkit bullshit.... OH NOEZ SONYS STOLEZ MY MEGORHURTZ!!!!111

Dude... this isn't about reporting information back to Sony. This rootkit hack makes it so that your system cannot see files with $sys$ in front of them. Your virus scan can't see these files either. Get where this is going?

[GrinR]

Dude... this isn't about reporting information back to Sony. This rootkit hack makes it so that your system cannot see files with $sys$ in front of them. Your virus scan can't see these files either. Get where this is going?

Oh, no I understand completely. I'm pointing out that it's just one of about a thousand hazards, 999 of which nobody complains about because 950 of them they don't even know about and 49 of them are caught by the occasional Norton or AdAware.

[Heretic Machine]

Oh, no I understand completely. I'm pointing out that it's just one of about a thousand hazards, 999 of which nobody complains about because 950 of them they don't even know about and 49 of them are caught by the occasional Norton or AdAware.

The difference here is that it's being mass-marketed and sold in Wal-mart.

[ezra]

This rootkit business is such a tempest in a teapot. Either you are a sucker in the first place for buying "protected" audio CDs (Who buys CDs anymore anyway), or you're a sucker for complaining about something that will never affect you. Oh wow, Sony's copy protection is ham-fisted. Talk about Starforce and it's checks or Blizzards checking programs... same shit different day. Whoopedy doo.

Most of you fools watched WarGames too many times and think that you're somehow safe from corporate or government intrusion because you have a fucking "CyberSafe" firewall, when in fact all of you have already been tagged and bagged a long time ago - many of you right when you were born. Social Security number? Credit card records? Drivers License FINGERPRINT requirement? Check your mail - how much of that mail is from a person you know and how much is from a robot that got your address. WAKE THE FUCK UP!

Sony CD rootkit bullshit.... OH NOEZ SONYS STOLEZ MY MEGORHURTZ!!!!111

Clearly, since many of us have drivers licenses, we should allow corporations to fuck with us. I really hope that was a troll, GrinR.

LOLZ!

What a sucker. I hope someone makes $2000 on ebay sales of your ROOTKITTED ass. They will laugh all the way to the bank. Thanks for being born.

I dont even know what you're talking about. I myself am not a victim of the rootkit fiasco. I guess I'm a sucker for understanding that, if it had happened to me, I would be pissed off? Though I suppose, had this happened to you, you would'nt have been upset, or participated in the lawsuit. I mean afterall, they got you fair and square - right?

I could go ahead and make all sorts of assumptions about what kind of an asshole you are, but hey, thats not my thing. And it would just fuel your little trolling expedition here.

So In conclusion I wish you a happy new year.

[GrinR]

The difference here is that it's being mass-marketed and sold in Wal-mart.

You mean like Starforce? Or WoW? or AOL?

[GrinR]

Clearly, since many of us have drivers licenses, we should allow corporations to fuck with us. I really hope that was a troll, GrinR.

No to both. People get driver's licenses because they generally need them. The government says "oh that's good you need one, well we need to fingerprint you" and you say "O RLY?" and press your little finger down. That's just the way it goes, right? Same with Social Security. My father has his original Social Security card that actually has printed on it "NOT TO BE USED FOR IDENTIFICATION". No shit. Well Merry Christmas suckers, it's too late now.

You may think it sounds nuts, but wait until your children have to give a DNA sample before they can get a driver's license. Hey, it's just a little blood right?

[Heretic Machine]

What does that have to do with rootkits, GrinR? We aren't talking about a privacy issue here.

[ezra]

You mean like Starforce? Or WoW? or AOL?

I didn't know that WoW subversively fucked up your computer and opened it up to hackers. I guess I missed that newsbulletin.

[ezra]

No to both. People get driver's licenses because they generally need them. The government says "oh that's good you need one, well we need to fingerprint you" and you say "O RLY?" and press your little finger down. That's just the way it goes, right? Same with Social Security. My father has his original Social Security card that actually has printed on it "NOT TO BE USED FOR IDENTIFICATION". No shit. Well Merry Christmas suckers, it's too late now.

You may think it sounds nuts, but wait until your children have to give a DNA sample before they can get a driver's license. Hey, it's just a little blood right?

Well, since I live in canada, I didnt have to put a fingerprint down for anything. I dont know what the practices for that are in the states.

And like Perigon said, this is pretty much irrelevant to the actual topic of this thread. We're not talking about privacy, we're talking about hidden malicious programs on audio cd's.

[GrinR]

Well, since I live in canada, I didnt have to put a fingerprint down for anything. I dont know what the practices for that are in the states.

And like Perigon said, this is pretty much irrelevant to the actual topic of this thread. We're not talking about privacy, we're talking about hidden malicious programs hidden on audio cd's.

You're not making the connection. The rootkit is not damaging unto itself, it merely opens a door to potential damage. It's like running your computer with no firewall. Your computer is safe until someone else decides to poke into it.

You think buying a CD with some "protection" on it is safe, but then it turns out it's just a backdoor for other shit. You think giving up personal data is "safe", but then it turns out it's just a backdoor for other shit.

My point is, as usual, only the typical user/citizen gets screwed; The outlaws and paranoids know better. So, back to what I originally said - you're a sucker for buying Sony media in the first place, or you're a sucker for complaining about something that didn't affect you.

[ezra]

You're not making the connection. The rootkit is not damaging unto itself, it merely opens a door to potential damage. It's like running your computer with no firewall. Your computer is safe until someone else decides to poke into it.

You think buying a CD with some "protection" on it is safe, but then it turns out it's just a backdoor for other shit. You think giving up personal data is "safe", but then it turns out it's just a backdoor for other shit.

My point is, as usual, only the typical user/citizen gets screwed; The outlaws and paranoids know better. So, back to what I originally said - you're a sucker for buying Sony media in the first place, or you're a sucker for complaining about something that didn't affect you.

And you of course knew about this rootkit thing beforehand, and thus didn't buy any sony media to avoid such a problem. Bullshit. This could have just as easily happened to any one of us, and just because it turned out that neither of us bought any of the cd's that had this on it doesn't make us any better or more informed than those who did.

So I'm a sucker for caring that innocent people got fucked over by a corporation? What about supporting laws that punish murderers (after all, I've never been murdered)? Am I a sucker if I donate to charity or do volunteer work? Am I a sucker for condenming the holocaust? Im pretty sure I'm not jewish.

I complain about stuff that doesn't affect me because I dont wanta similiar situation to occur in which I am affected. And if you don't understand that then you don't understand the most basic tenets of society and law.

Normally I wouldn't pull out such loaded examples, but you're spouting bullshit and this is the most efficient way of exposing it as such.

[GrinR]

Massive logic failure there, Ezra. By using "loaded" examples you're selling yourself short.

Maybe my position is better defined as: I expect to get fucked over constantly by just about everyone. My experience with large bodies (ha!) like corporations or governments is that they are unavoidable dehumanizing and as such will do things that screw people over without intent or shame. By accepting this and moving on, I get to enjoy the rest of my life. As a side benefit, I get to call people who haven't wised up to this fact "suckers".

[ezra]

Massive logic failure there, Ezra. By using "loaded" examples you're selling yourself short.

I mostly just took issue with your statement that "If you complain about something that doesnt affect you, you are a sucker". Would you mind explaining where the 'massive logic failure' is?


Maybe my position is better defined as: I expect to get fucked over constantly by just about everyone. My experience with large bodies (ha!) like corporations or governments is that they are unavoidable dehumanizing and as such will do things that screw people over without intent or shame. By accepting this and moving on, I get to enjoy the rest of my life. As a side benefit, I get to call people who haven't wised up to this fact "suckers".

No shiat that governments and companies can fuck people over - you're not telling anyone anything they didn't know already. I fail to see how accepting that you're getting fucked, but not caring about it makes you a clever person. Correct me if im wrong, but that seems even more stupid than being unware that you're getting fucked in the first place.

Anyways, your argument in regards to this issue is still flawed. Did you or did you not purposefully avoid sony media because you somehow expected it to fuck over your computer? What about the parts in your computer, or the web browser you're using, or your operating system? Did you inspect all of them to make sure that there wasn't something hidden within? You're just as much as a target for these kind of things as anyone else. The big issue with the rootkit was that it was hidden. Therefore, no one knew that their computers were getting fucked. Does that really make them suckers?

[GrinR]

Admittedly I'm overstating my case. Yes, I avoided the Sony rootkit because I don't buy CDs at all. It's an uberlevel of protection. I don't buy things that are "protected" anymore because they are usually "protected" from my using them. Music CD's became part of that framework YEARS ago. By default, Sony CDs are part of that.

"No shiat that governments and companies can fuck people over - you're not telling anyone anything they didn't know already. I fail to see how accepting that you're getting fucked, but not caring about it makes you a clever person. Correct me if im wrong, but that seems even more stupid than being unware that you're getting fucked in the first place."

A. If it's so known, why are so many people surprised that they got fucked over?
B. I never said it made me clever, I just said it made others "suckers".
C. It's not that I don't care - it's that I am unable to do anything about it. It's like barking at the moon, trying to fight that dynamic. And barking at the moon is crazy.

[Grimmjow]

This rootkit business is such a tempest in a teapot. Either you are a sucker in the first place for buying "protected" audio CDs (Who buys CDs anymore anyway), or you're a sucker for complaining about something that will never affect you. Oh wow, Sony's copy protection is ham-fisted. Talk about Starforce and it's checks or Blizzards checking programs... same shit different day.

Most of you fools watched WarGames too many times and think that you're somehow safe from corporate or government intrusion because you have a fucking "CyberSafe" firewall, when in fact all of you have already been tagged and bagged a long time ago - many of you right when you were born. Social Security number? Credit card records? Drivers License FINGERPRINT requirement? Check your mail - how much of that mail is from a person you know and how much is from a robot that got your address. WAKE THE FUCK UP!
Sony CD rootkit bullshit.... OH NOEZ SONYS STOLEZ MY MEGORHURTZ!!!!111

I AGREE^^ +1

[GrinR]

I AGREE^^ +1

FTW! .

[ezra]

Admittedly I'm overstating my case. Yes, I avoided the Sony rootkit because I don't buy CDs at all. It's an uberlevel of protection. I don't buy things that are "protected" anymore because they are usually "protected" from my using them. Music CD's became part of that framework YEARS ago. By default, Sony CDs are part of that.


True enough, but again we're talking about the general populace. The general level of "what is acceptable for a corporation to do" shouldn't be defined on a basis of people who avoid contact wherever possible with said corporations.

That aside, most copy protection schemes aren't as invasive or damaging as this one has been. The issue isnt copy protection, it's copy protection that has serious side affects. Most people don't have an issue with copy protection, but they do have an issue with things such as the rootkit.


A. If it's so known, why are so many people surprised that they got fucked over?
B. I never said it made me clever, I just said it made others "suckers".
C. It's not that I don't care - it's that I am unable to do anything about it. It's like barking at the moon, trying to fight that dynamic. And barking at the moon is crazy.

A. I said its well known that companies/gub'ments can fuck people over. Not that they can/do/should all the time. When I buy milk it doesn't poison my insides - why should a cd rot my computer?

B. No one can foresee every eventuality - that doesn't make them suckers.

C. Of course we can do something about it. Thinking otherwise is apathy, which never got anything done. If you go back to read the original post you may notice that its about a lawsuit regarding this issue. That's doing something about it. You may also remember Enron, a large corporation that fucked with people until they got shut down, or perhaps the French Royalty of the 1700s that fucked with people until the said people revolted. You can always do something about it.

[GrinR]

Whoa I almost quoted that whole thing.

Basically we're on the same page. I'm just more paranoid and/or less naive than you. I never said I just lie back and take shit all day, I just pick my battles... differently than you. This whole kerfuffle is a good example, since it's all academic to me - I didn't buy Sony shit and I'm not fucked.

As for the lawsuit... good for them. I'm sure the 7 bucks and a coupon is well worth it.

[ezra]

Whoa I almost quoted that whole thing.

Basically we're on the same page. I'm just more paranoid and/or less naive than you. I never said I just lie back and take shit all day, I just pick my battles... differently than you. This whole kerfuffle is a good example, since it's all academic to me - I didn't buy Sony shit and I'm not fucked.

As for the lawsuit... good for them. I'm sure the 7 bucks and a coupon is well worth it.

I'd rather use term 'optimistic', but yeah, sure. As for the lawsuit, well that certainly could have gone better, as that settlement is bull. Though I doubt it signals the end of the fallout from this particular issue.

[GrinR]

I'd rather use term 'optimistic', but yeah, sure. As for the lawsuit, well that certainly could have gone better, as that settlement is bull. Though I doubt it signals the end of the fallout from this particular issue.

Optimistic, then. :-)

Certainly the market will be speaking when PS3 launches. Let's see how well that goes...

[Dracula-X]

A. I said its well known that companies/gub'ments can fuck people over. Not that they can/do/should all the time. When I buy milk it doesn't poison my insides - why should a cd rot my computer?
Using milk as an example made me laugh. I mean, really laugh.

Especially in the US, where the pesticide Malathion is used. How does it relate to milk? The EPA established a tolerance of 8 parts per million of Malathion on soybeans for human consumption. Farms all over the country feed their cattle soy products as well, but interestingly enough, Malathion pesticide levels levels are allowed to be as much as 17 parts per million for cattle, thanks to the good old EPA. Dumb animals, right? Fuck them! But wait. A typical American might barely consume a few ounces of Malathion treated soy a day, but cows, these fuckers eat these soy products by the pound, as much as 10 pounds a day - at tolerances illegal for human consumption. We already know these pesticides concentrate in fats as it is, but what about when the animals eat that much of it? And in turn what do Americans love to eat (trying not to make fat jokes here, it's tough)? Beef, milk and cheese. And Milk and cheese, they're in everything. And I haven't even touched on the countless other pesticides and growth hormones that are a serious problem, either.

The good old US of A, fucking you and loving every minute of it. Think about it next time you're sipping on some poison.

[TrackZero]

This is the software equivalent of a date rape drug

Nice analogy, seriously.

[ElectricMonk]

this whole sony rootkit fiasco finally opened my eyes on why you should never log on with administrator rights for day-to-day stuff.

90% of all these spyware/virus problems could be solved if people just used more limited accounts for daily activities.

oh.. and GrinR... one day you'll end up like the milkman in psychonauts if you don't calm down.

[TrackZero]

this whole sony rootkit fiasco finally opened my eyes on why you should never log on with administrator rights for day-to-day stuff.

90% of all these spyware/virus problems could be solved if people just used more limited accounts for daily activities.

oh.. and GrinR... one day you'll end up like the milkman in psychonauts if you don't calm down.

I believe this thing "sploited" it's way in, aside from being admin or not.

[ezra]

Using milk as an example made me laugh. I mean, really laugh.

Especially in the US, where the pesticide Malathion is used. How does it relate to milk? The EPA established a tolerance of 8 parts per million of Malathion on soybeans for human consumption. Farms all over the country feed their cattle soy products as well, but interestingly enough, Malathion pesticide levels levels are allowed to be as much as 17 parts per million for cattle, thanks to the good old EPA. Dumb animals, right? Fuck them! But wait. A typical American might barely consume a few ounces of Malathion treated soy a day, but cows, these fuckers eat these soy products by the pound, as much as 10 pounds a day - at tolerances illegal for human consumption. We already know these pesticides concentrate in fats as it is, but what about when the animals eat that much of it? And in turn what do Americans love to eat (trying not to make fat jokes here, it's tough)? Beef, milk and cheese. And Milk and cheese, they're in everything. And I haven't even touched on the countless other pesticides and growth hormones that are a serious problem, either.

The good old US of A, fucking you and loving every minute of it. Think about it next time you're sipping on some poison.


Then I'm glad I live in Canada.

Anyways, the point I was making wasn't specific to milk. I was just trying to explain that this is a case of a product doing something entirely unexpected, and the same way one wouldnt expect say, a toaster to fill your house with noxious gasses, or your shaving cream give you athletes foot, most people do not expect an audio cd to mess their computer up.