More Sony Controversy - Graffiti Ads

[automaton]

Sony is working at the "Pissing off People" game again. This time they are placing PSP advertisements in the form of graffiti on the sides of abandoned urban buildings.

The black-on-white graffiti shows wide-eyed cartoon characters riding the PlayStation like a skateboard, licking it like a lollipop or cranking it like a Jack-in-the-Box. The stealth marketing campaign has popped up in San Francisco, New York and other large U.S. cities.

"They're breaking the law," said Mary Tracy, who runs the Society Created to Reduce Urban Blight, a watchdog group that fights illegal or ill-advised billboards in Philadelphia. Tracy said Sony ignored the zoning process that regulates outdoor commercial advertising in the city. Philadelphia Managing Director Pedro Ramos on Wednesday faxed a cease-and-desist letter to Sony Computer Entertainment's U.S. division in San Mateo, Calif. He could seek modest fines allowed by city code or sue to recover any profit the ads produced.Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051229/ap_on_hi_te/graffiti_ads)

Personally I think this is disgusting. The sort of people these ads target certainly can't afford a PSP. If I owned a building that some Sony ad monkey vandalized I would find a very mean lawyer. Sony certainly doesn't need anymore controversy right now

[Evil Avatar]

Good post, automaton. Thanks for the submission.

[fitbabits]

Personally I think this is disgusting. The sort of people these ads target certainly can't afford a PSP.
I'm curious - just who are the 'sort of people' you are referring to?

[bapenguin]

Wait...Sony just up and grafiti'd some buildings. No permission from the city, no advertising money being paid out to building owners? That's gotta be some new record low for a company in sleaze.

[spacerat100]

This just helps me feel better about my decision never to buy sony again. I had around a grand to spend this xmas for a digital camera and I didn't even look at the Sony products. Fuck em. Only thing I still have is my PSP but until I'm looking into replacing that with a cheap laptop I can take with me on deployment.

[automaton]

The "sort of people" who live near blighted urban buildings. Not that Sony cares whether or not they can afford a PSP. They will be market too nonetheless!

[miah]

IBM did this a few years ago in major cities, but on sidewalks. They got fined bigtime..

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/TECH/industry/04/19/ibm.guerilla.idg/

I remember seeing these on the sidewalks of SF and wondering wtf did these (especially because I worked for a Linux company at the time). Then IBM got fined for it, and it made my day. Its great to see the same thing happening here!

[XenonCJ]

Yeah that's pretty stupid... At least get permission for God's sake...

Of course maybe they are banking on getting some free airtime out of this dispute...

[camberiu]

Who is running that company? Akio Morita must be turning on his grave right now. Look at what they did to his company!!!!!!!

[mattwier]

*** did it in San Francisco with butterfly stickers advertising MSN, and got in big trouble for it. Don't these people ever read the news?

[fitbabits]

The "sort of people" who live near blighted urban buildings. Not that Sony cares whether or not they can afford a PSP. They will be market too nonetheless!
Got it. I wonder, though, if the idea is to get the 'yoof' to copy the designs elsewhere?

[Slack3r78]

The "sort of people" who live near blighted urban buildings. Not that Sony cares whether or not they can afford a PSP. They will be market too nonetheless!
I've seen these in Little Five Points in Atlanta. Not exactly what I'd call blighted urban buildings if you're familiar with the area.

[Steve_Erhardt]

Somehow I just can't get worked up over this either pro or con. Assuming Automaton's assertion is true, so the poor kids are seeing ads for the PSP on the side of a building as well as in shop windows, magazines, newspaper ads, and on TV... I just can't get uptight about it. I doubt one more ad for something they can't afford is ravaging their psyche anymore than their current circumstances already are.

However, it does seem kind of tacky... again not enough so to really rile me. Be funny if they get in trouble with building owners (assuming they didn't pay to do this in the first place).

[Cubfan]

The "sort of people" who live near blighted urban buildings. Not that Sony cares whether or not they can afford a PSP. They will be market too nonetheless!

Hey I can see one of the PSP graffiti adds on the building next door looking out my apartment window :mad:

And I think Sony is paying 100 bucks to building owners for 2 weeks of advertising.

[AspectVoid]

Wait...Sony just up and grafiti'd some buildings. No permission from the city, no advertising money being paid out to building owners? That's gotta be some new record low for a company in sleaze.

Wow, you must not have paid much attention to the old Activision stunts. They were paying people to name their kids after games and for people to put ads on the tombstones of recently deceased relatives. This is really low key, to be honest.

[Slack3r78]

Be funny if they get in trouble with building owners (assuming they didn't pay to do this in the first place).
I'm trying to remember when I was in Little 5 last... maybe a month or so ago? At any rate, I've seen this reported several places since then, and none of them have really said anything about irate building owners, which kind of suggests that the owners were paid for it to me.

The only thing the article automaton linked to talks about are zoning violations, not outright vandalism, which would imply the same thing, IMO.

[Savok]

Wow, you must not have paid much attention to the old Activision stunts. They were paying people to name their kids after games and for people to put ads on the tombstones of recently deceased relatives. This is really low key, to be honest.
Acclaim dear boy.

[Brain]

From what I understand Sony did pay the owners of the buildings to have their graffiti on the side of their building for a certain time period, like 2 weeks?
Although I suppose I have no real way to confirm or deny this!

[Kagger]

I hate that style of adds, with the cheesy handrawn guys talking about how great the games are. It doesn't appeal to me at all

[InstaPete]

Wait...Sony just up and grafiti'd some buildings. No permission from the city, no advertising money being paid out to building owners? That's gotta be some new record low for a company in sleaze.

Sony is definitely paying for this. It's just graffiti-style advertising, not actual graffiti. From the Wired article...

Unlike IBM, however, Sony says it's paying businesses and building owners for the right to graffiti their walls.

Casa Maria was paid $100 for two weeks' use of its wall, according to co-owner Mario Arana.

[CrysDark]

The point dear friends, is not to put graffiti on building, but for the news of the graffiti to be picked up by major media sources and activating massive free publicity.

[PIPBoy3000]

My understanding is that payments were indeed made by Sony, though permission wasn't obtained by the city. (reference here (http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/13496878.htm)). I think the main legal problem is that there are billboard regulations which these large ads fall under, yet they never got the appropriate permissions.

Sony seems to be on a losing streak these days. Corporate arrogance? Trying to hard to be cool? Time will tell.

[BloodPack]

Neat idea, crappy art.

[automaton]

Well, if they are paying the building owners that will remove one layer of my disgust. I still don't think this advertising campaign is targeting an appropriate audience. You can talk all you want about poor people seeing ads on television or in magazines, but these graffiti ads target a very specific class and culture -- the majority of which (not all, but the majority) can't afford a PSP.

[Heretic Machine]

Ok... I don't normally do this but, OLD'D! This "news" is almost two months old.

[Reanimated]

I personally really like what the neighborhood kids did to the ads:

http://home.comcast.net/~freedomcalls/fusony1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~freedomcalls/fusony2.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~freedomcalls/fusony3.jpg

[TheEpicOfTyler]

So basically, what we have is people complaining about Sony doiing ads that they didn't get a city ok to do.

OMG TEH DEMONS!!

I mean it's not like they got packs of thugs to roam the steets defacing every property they could find. They paid to put the ads there, they just aren't in lines with the city. I'm sure people have done worse.

[Slack3r78]

You can talk all you want about poor people seeing ads on television or in magazines, but these graffiti ads target a very specific class and culture -- the majority of which (not all, but the majority) can't afford a PSP.
It's been my experience that kids into the tagging scene often came from more or less middle class families. Sure, it's generally run down buildings that get tagged, but that has more to do with not getting caught than anything.

[fitbabits]

I personally really like what the neighborhood kids did to the ads:

http://home.comcast.net/~freedomcalls/fusony1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~freedomcalls/fusony2.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~freedomcalls/fusony3.jpg
The links dinnae work. :(

[Kelegacy]

Well, if they are paying the building owners that will remove one layer of my disgust. I still don't think this advertising campaign is targeting an appropriate audience. You can talk all you want about poor people seeing ads on television or in magazines, but these graffiti ads target a very specific class and culture -- the majority of which (not all, but the majority) can't afford a PSP.
Do you really think Sony is targeting people that can't afford a PSP? Does that even make sense? It's like Alienware trying to sell their PC's to Welfare recipients.

If anything, these people will see the ads and realize they want MY PSP and steal it from me at knifepoint.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

Mad stereotyping going on in this thread. :(

[fitbabits]

Do you really think Sony is targeting people that can't afford a PSP? Does that even make sense? It's like Alienware trying to sell their PC's to Welfare recipients.

If anything, these people will see the ads and realize they want MY PSP and steal it from me at knifepoint.
You seem to be pre-occupied with knives this morning, Kelegacy. Should I be afraid?

[AspectVoid]

Acclaim dear boy.

My appologies. I was just taking a wild stab at which "A" company as I couldn't remember. Still, my point is that this is no where near the bottom of the barrel (or the bottom of the barrel has its own barrel and Acclaim is at the bottom of that).

[thegameguru]

Do you really think Sony is targeting people that can't afford a PSP? Does that even make sense? It's like Alienware trying to sell their PC's to Welfare recipients.

If anything, these people will see the ads and realize they want MY PSP and steal it from me at knifepoint.

because yes everyone who lives in urban areas and may be poor is 100% also a criminal.

loser.

[Reanimated]

Fixed the links.

And I have to say, I agree with the sentiment. Good job kids!

[see colon]

Got it. I wonder, though, if the idea is to get the 'yoof' to copy the designs elsewhere?
they can't be copied. they are protected by sony DRM and rootkits.

location specific marketing can be very effective. when i lived in seattle i would get off at one bus stop and walk briskly to another because it would shave 15-20 minutes off the trip to work each day. the stretch i walked was pretty steep downhill (starting at broadway and walking down pine or pike, i can't remember). on the way back, the walk uphill was greuling, and most of the way you could see a large billboard for levi's that said "because it's always harder coming back" or something to that effect. i haven't bought a pair of levi's since. later, that billbord changed to an imac billboard that said something about making life easier or things being better. i still own a bondie blue imac.

[Morratut]

Sony you are soooooooo EVIL!!

I can't get riled about this to be honest. If they have paid people to use their walls I can't see a problem. :rolleyes:

[rein]

I saw a news blurb about this on MSNBC a few minutes ago. It made me laugh. Much like this entire news post. Thank you for the chuckle this morning... ..yea.. ...this is just plain evil. Next thing you know they will take all of the stray cats in major cities and shave PSP into their hair and turn them all lose. That is how evil Sony is.

[fitbabits]

I saw a news blurb about this on MSNBC a few minutes ago. It made me laugh. Much like this entire news post. Thank you for the chuckle this morning... ..yea.. ...this is just plain evil. Next thing you know they will take all of the stray cats in major cities and shave PSP into their hair and turn them all lose. That is how evil Sony is.
Hush now before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

[Savok]

Maybe it's the RWDB in me, but I kinda like this. Yes it's stupid, yes it looks awful and Sony (or the owners of those buildings, if Sony got them in hot water then ignore any further praise) have probably broken some laws, but they've paid for the space, made some special interest groups cry and made

I personally really like what the neighborhood kids did to the ads:

http://home.comcast.net/~freedomcalls/fusony1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~freedomcalls/fusony2.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~freedomcalls/fusony3.jpg
happen, which is pretty damn awesome.

[Reanimated]

I saw a news blurb about this on MSNBC a few minutes ago. It made me laugh. Much like this entire news post. Thank you for the chuckle this morning... ..yea.. ...this is just plain evil. Next thing you know they will take all of the stray cats in major cities and shave PSP into their hair and turn them all lose. That is how evil Sony is.




Ken Kuturagi personally rapes every kitten first.

[agentgray]

Laugh Out Loud.

I just cannot bring myself to comment on Sony any further. Rome has fallen.

[eqbeastlord]

No one talks about the graffitti that was replaced by the ads, and alot of people who live there think they are better looking than what was there before.

This is hurting no one, and they aren't touching anyone's buildings who care.

The only people up in arms are folks who want to get attention because their usually unnewsworthy group needs some face time.

[Kelegacy]

because yes everyone who lives in urban areas and may be poor is 100% also a criminal.

loser.
That's my point, I was being purposefully stereotypical.

And yes, fitbabits, I want to stab someone.

[fitbabits]

And yes, fitbabits, I want to stab someone.
In the interests of keeping this raving lunatic off the streets and away from the nation's children, I offer myself to you as your stabbing bag.

[rein]

Hush now before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

Yea... ..like jumping in and assuming Sony didn't pay the owners for use of the buildings? Or that Sony was the first company to ever run an ad campaign like this? Or that Sony was targeting those people who can't afford a PSP? Or that those people are going to rob me at knife point for my PSP because of these ads? Yea, you are right. I should be careful. :rolleyes:

[fitbabits]

Yea... ..like jumping in and assuming Sony didn't pay the owners for use of the buildings? Or that Sony was the first company to ever run an ad campaign like this? Or that Sony was targeting those people who can't afford a PSP? Or that those people are going to rob me at knife point for my PSP because of these ads? Yea, you are right. I should be careful. :rolleyes:
Very careful. Kelegacy is out for blood!

[Dakar]

Yea... ..like jumping in and assuming Sony didn't pay the owners for use of the buildings? Or that Sony was the first company to ever run an ad campaign like this? Or that Sony was targeting those people who can't afford a PSP? Or that those people are going to rob me at knife point for my PSP because of these ads? Yea, you are right. I should be careful. :rolleyes:

Lol. Exactly.

It's amazing the rampant anti-Sony speculation that went on from a bad article. Not to mention the stereotyping of graffiti as "crap". And making it seem as if only the super poor would be able to see these ads.

And I wonder what "sort of people" the poster meant these ads targeted? Hmmmm

[Rafer]

Atari was criticised for doing this sort of thing (story (http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20051007-001/page.asp) ) in Toronto a few months ago. Toronto's anti-graffiti laws mean you have to maintain certain "property standards", so it doesn't matter if the property owner was paid for the graffiti or not. A mural would of been okay, but I guess it's a judgement call wether something is graffiti or a mural.

[Cubfan]

Most of graffiti is crap. I live in the city, see it all the time. To each his own I guess.

[boratika]

Acclaim dear boy.

Can you blame him for not remembering that name?

[Beelzebud]

The same kids they are marketing to with this, would go to jail for the same sort of vandalism.

Why should a multi-million dollar company get off easy?

[NACIONAL]

The same kids they are marketing to with this, would go to jail for the same sort of vandalism.

Why should a multi-million dollar company get off easy?

money...

ehy a corrupt congressman can get away with millions from public money?... justice is blind... VERY blind

[doubtingthomas]

What's all the hubbub? Some company didn't follow some zoning regulations for advertising. They didn't exactly torch anybody's home here.

[rein]

The same kids they are marketing to with this, would go to jail for the same sort of vandalism.

Why should a multi-million dollar company get off easy?

Sony paid for the right to do so from the property owners. All Sony has done is broken code violations. They will probably be fined for doing so. I wonder if the property owners can be fined?

[Zanzibar]

What's all the hubbub? Some company didn't follow some zoning regulations for advertising. They didn't exactly torch anybody's home here.

Give 'em time. They've got a year to kill until the PS3 comes out.

</rimshot>

[JudasGoat]

Sony paid for the right to do so from the property owners. All Sony has done is broken code violations. They will probably be fined for doing so. I wonder if the property owners can be fined?

Precisely. There was an article in the paper here (NYC) yesterday mentioning it, but no where did it say the buildings were abandoned or that it was graffiti. Only that they had bought the rights from the building owner.

Also, it's not like they are in scummy areas either. There's one in Tribeca near where I work and another in SoHo. Hardly areas of urban blight.

[G-Man]

The "sort of people" who live near blighted urban buildings. Not that Sony cares whether or not they can afford a PSP. They will be market too nonetheless!

I live near a "blighted urban building" in Chicago...it's kind of hard NOT to. Anyway, I got a PSP...what are you getting at automaton? Is it BLACK PEOPLE you're referring to, because I'd laugh. Then I'd hit you.

[NACIONAL]

I live near a "blighted urban building" in Chicago...it's kind of hard NOT to. Anyway, I got a PSP...what are you getting at automaton? Is it BLACK PEOPLE you're referring to, because I'd laugh. Then I'd hit you.

please, try decaf.

[Heretic Machine]

please, try decaf.

Please, try to capatalize.

[Kefkataran]

This is probably one of the most ridiculous news stories I've heard in a long time. Not only in terms of the story itself, but also in terms of the response to it. This poor damned website.

[Kelegacy]

This is probably one of the most ridiculous news stories I've heard in a long time. Not only in terms of the story itself, but also in terms of the response to it. This poor damned website.
I'd like to see you do better, Phillip Kollar. ;)

[F3nyx]

I live near a "blighted urban building" in Chicago...it's kind of hard NOT to. Anyway, I got a PSP...what are you getting at automaton? Is it BLACK PEOPLE you're referring to, because I'd laugh. Then I'd hit you.Race card played, with bonus threat of internet fisticuffs! Spectacular!

"I don't think that's graffiti," Griggs said as she paused beside the PlayStation ad. "That's art." These people never go away.

[automaton]

I live near a "blighted urban building" in Chicago...it's kind of hard NOT to. Anyway, I got a PSP...what are you getting at automaton? Is it BLACK PEOPLE you're referring to, because I'd laugh. Then I'd hit you.

Jesus Christ I can't believe I'm even replying to this. My concern is not that Sony is marketing toward BLACK people. My concern is that they are marketing toward LOWER INCOME people who live in poorer areas of town. I don't give 2 shits which race they are. If you are the one making the leap from lower income people to black people, then maybe you are the racist.

I just take issue with it. Am I ready to boycott Sony? No. Am I going to burn down Sony's corporate headquarters? Hell no. I just don't approve.

[dragntyr]

This is old news, this was posted on digg.com complete with pictures, weeks ago.

[bKangy]

You could have submitted the story, you know?

[Zeal]

Get it together EA.

Damn.

[Heretic Machine]

You could have submitted the story, you know?

I would of submitted it like two months ago if Evil Avatar didn't have such an anti-Kotaku vibe. Sure, we don't get news on time, but we do get to be elitist fuckheads!

[Chandler]

The point dear friends, is not to put graffiti on building, but for the news of the graffiti to be picked up by major media sources and activating massive free publicity.

Bingo. Spiderman 2 ads on MLB bases anyone?

[Captain Sniffy]

Do you really think Sony is targeting people that can't afford a PSP? Does that even make sense? It's like Alienware trying to sell their PC's to Welfare recipients.

If anything, these people will see the ads and realize they want MY PSP and steal it from me at knifepoint.

Actually, this is a very common marketing tactic. Nike is famous for it. If you are curious to understand the rationale behind it, check out No Logo (http://nologo.org), an anti-globalization web site.

The basic psychology of this kind of advertising is to present something that is somewhat unattainable, and associate it with class standing (or "cool factor" or other such nonsense). This encourages even the poorest people to lower their standards of living in order to purchase or obtain exclusive items (Tommy Hilfiger, Nike, PSP, etc) that they don't need.

Lawyers, insurance/real-estate salesmen, and advertisers. The cancer of humanity.

[Jengaaa]

Okay. As people have said, this is really old news. Also, the building owners were asked and paid so that blurb about sony ad-monkeys on your building and so on is not applicable.

I really don't think it's a huge deal. Personally though, as a fan of street art, it kind of makes me a little sad when big corporations try to pull off this kind of image. But not something to get hugely riled up over. Worse things have been done.

Also, my main reason for commenting is that I keep seeing people say "would of." That is not correct. It is "would have" which you are confusing "would of" with it's shorter version "would've."

[Captain Awesome]

Lame. Do what Sega did when they were promoting JSRF and asked permission and even held a contest in SF to see who would create the best looking "piece" to be features in the game and win some cash for it.

I agree though, I hate when corporations try to fit into the "hip" demographic.




This ain't yo father's eggs! as David Cross said once :)

[G-Man]

Race card played, with bonus threat of internet fisticuffs! Spectacular!

He'd better just pray I don't roll a twenty...

Jesus Christ I can't believe I'm even replying to this. My concern is not that Sony is marketing toward BLACK people. My concern is that they are marketing toward LOWER INCOME people who live in poorer areas of town. I don't give 2 shits which race they are. If you are the one making the leap from lower income people to black people, then maybe you are the racist.

I just take issue with it. Am I ready to boycott Sony? No. Am I going to burn down Sony's corporate headquarters? Hell no. I just don't approve.

I refer to one of my detractors in saying, "Please, try decaf."

(Capital letter added for Perigon's benefit!)

[ezra]

I think Microsoft has somehow bribed Sony's marketing department. Its the only possible solution to the stupid shit that sony keeps pulling.

Why must you do this sony? You used to make such good stereo equipment! Why!?

[Dirty Harry]

man you guys are fucking pathetic, that is the word i can use to sum up this situation.

Fucking sick and tired of posting on a forum full of 12 year old children with the logic of a 9 year old.

[ezra]

Fucking sick and tired of posting on a forum full of 12 year old children with the logic of a 9 year old.


I just got here, and so don't really have any claim to this ongoing flamewar, but regardless I just want to say that the above quote is probably the lamest burn in the history of the internets.

I lol'd.

[fitbabits]

man you guys are fucking pathetic, that is the word i can use to sum up this situation.

Fucking sick and tired of posting on a forum full of 12 year old children with the logic of a 9 year old.
I don't think it's as bad as you make it seem, Dirty_Harry, and I for one would hate to lose you round these here parts.

That said, there has been a slight upsurge in flaming and needlessly aggressive/demeaning posts of late. Hopefully the people responsible will tire of the more typical mature conversations and debates that Evil Avatar is known for.

[Dirty Harry]

I just got here, and so don't really have any claim to this ongoing flamewar, but regardless I just want to say that the above quote is probably the lamest burn in the history of the internets.

I lol'd.
It's not really an insult, its more of an accurate statement of how the forums "are". I am so sick of this Pro-Ms bias that everyone has around here. You people here for example, are hooping and hollaring over an ad campaign which im sure sony thought out before they did it. They possibly even did this with out getting the greenlight purely for the news it would generate. These 'big wigs" are looking for more alternative routes to get the advertising to the consumer. This isnt a very big deal like some of you blow this up to be.

[Kefkataran]

I'd like to see you do better, Phillip Kollar.

I'd like to see you spell my first name right. ;)

I would of submitted it like two months ago if Evil Avatar didn't have such an anti-Kotaku vibe. Sure, we don't get news on time, but we do get to be elitist fuckheads!

Of course, if EvAv was Kotaku, EvAv would suck a lot more than it may already.

Fucking sick and tired of posting on a forum full of 12 year old children with the logic of a 9 year old.

Mmm.

Hopefully the people responsible will tire of the more typical mature conversations and debates that Evil Avatar is known for.

Here's hoping. Then again, where's the "attitude" in that, eh?

[ezra]

It's not really an insult, its more of an accurate statement of how the forums "are". I am so sick of this Pro-Ms bias that everyone has around here. You people here for example, are hooping and hollaring over an ad campaign which im sure sony thought out before they did it. They possibly even did this with out getting the greenlight purely for the news it would generate. These 'big wigs" are looking for more alternative routes to get the advertising to the consumer. This isnt a very big deal like some of you blow this up to be.

Well, I didn't read the entirety of this very long discussion, so I cant really comment on the level of debate thats been going on.

As for MS bias, well I dont think that 'bias' is a good way to describe it. I think that most of the people here are the 'kind' of gamers that MS has been marketing to, and the kind of people that like the things that MS is providing. Whats wrong with that? A company that is doing a good job supplying products that satisfies its customers needs should expect its customers to 'like' that company. Lately Sony has just been doing everything wrong from the perspective of a lot of people. It has nothing to do with 'loyalty', but rather just the fallout of the stupid shit that sony has been pulling. Killzone 2 demo's anyone? The Rootkit fiasco? This advertising thing? I think It'd be more worrisome if there was no reaction at all to this stuff.

That said, there is a certain amount of people around here (They wear red cloaks, to identify themsleves) that seem to enjoy sony bashing and praising MS. These are known as fanboys, and they exist on all sides of the console wars. But if MS started doing some of the things that sony has been doing, I have no doubt that the public opinion on this forum and on others would swing against them, just as it has in the last year or so against sony.

[fitbabits]

Well, I didn't read the entirety of this very long discussion, so I cant really comment on the level of debate thats been going on.

As for MS bias, well I dont think that 'bias' is a good way to describe it. I think that most of the people here are the 'kind' of gamers that MS has been marketing to, and the kind of people that like the things that MS is providing. Whats wrong with that? A company that is doing a good job supplying products that satisfies its customers needs should expect its customers to 'like' that company. Lately Sony has just been doing everything wrong from the perspective of a lot of people. It has nothing to do with 'loyalty', but rather just the fallout of the stupid shit that sony has been pulling. Killzone 2 demo's anyone? The Rootkit fiasco? This advertising thing? I think It'd be more worrisome if there was no reaction at all to this stuff.

That said, there is a certain amount of people around here (They wear red cloaks, to identify themsleves) that seem to enjoy sony bashing and praising MS. These are known as fanboys, and they exist on all sides of the console wars. But if MS started doing some of the things that sony has been doing, I have no doubt that the public opinion on this forum and on others would swing against them, just as it has in the last year or so against sony.
There have been a few polls done here in the past and they've each shown that there is no major leaning in favor of any particular company or platform. I think this (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5964) is the most recent one.

[Dirty Harry]

I just feel that people give MS way too much credit, personally.

[ezra]

There have been a few polls done here in the past and they've each shown that there is no major leaning in favor of any particular company or platform. I think this (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5964) is the most recent one.


Well if thats true, then those who prefer 'the box' are much more vocal than the others.

[fitbabits]

Well if thats true, then those who prefer 'the box' are much more vocal than the others.
It's true in so much as the poll suggests that to be the case.

[Kefkataran]

That said, there is a certain amount of people around here (They wear red cloaks, to identify themsleves) that seem to enjoy sony bashing and praising MS. These are known as fanboys, and they exist on all sides of the console wars. But if MS started doing some of the things that sony has been doing, I have no doubt that the public opinion on this forum and on others would swing against them, just as it has in the last year or so against sony.

See, that's dumb though. I'm sorry, but Sony hasn't being doing anything more as far as marketting or silliness than any big company does. The only difference is that, on this site at least, Sony's stuff is much more advertised and blown out of proportion. It's the kind of stuff that goes on in crazy news posts like this one where they take something that, while somewhat dumb yes, is an unsurprising and likely legal (if subsequent posts are to be believed) marketting technique and they run with it in extreme directions.

[fitbabits]

I just feel that people give MS way too much credit, personally.
Microsoft have been given a lot of credit lately, but that's more down to them doing more things right than wrong. Don't get me wrong, Microsoft have made a few wonderous blunders themselves (dual SKU, for example), but the difference is that they have gone above and beyond where possible to help people affected by any mistakes they've made (see their response to the malfunctioning Xbox 360s as a fine example of this). Compare that reaction to the one of Sony and the rootkit debacle. Or tKuturagi's classic "it's not a design flaw, it's a feature" statement when quizzed about the location of the square button on the PSP.

[Dirty Harry]

Microsoft have been given a lot of credit lately, but that's more down to them doing more things right than wrong. Don't get me wrong, Microsoft have made a few wonderous blunders themselves (dual SKU, for example), but the difference is that they have gone above and beyond where possible to help people affected by any mistakes they've made (see their response to the malfunctioning Xbox 360s as a fine example of this). Compare that reaction to the one of Sony and the rootkit debacle. Or tKuturagi's classic "it's not a design flaw, it's a feature" statement when quizzed about the location of the square button on the PSP.
Personally im waiting to see if Allards ship sinks like Dreamcasts ship had sank. I've seen some things that would suggest that pirating games on the xbox360 are very much possible with current technology. The whole psp thing was just crap, on each sides. Mistranslation was one of the things that bothered me about the situation. Kutargi plainly said that the hardware was designed and had no flaws in the blueprint stage so their shouldnt be any in this stage of production. As we know it turned out to be a manufacturing problem at a plant, not cutting off enough plastic or something for the first version of the unit. Anyways, time will tell.

[ezra]

See, that's dumb though. I'm sorry, but Sony hasn't being doing anything more as far as marketting or silliness than any big company does. The only difference is that, on this site at least, Sony's stuff is much more advertised and blown out of proportion. It's the kind of stuff that goes on in crazy news posts like this one where they take something that, while somewhat dumb yes, is an unsurprising and likely legal (if subsequent posts are to be believed) marketting technique and they run with it in extreme directions.

Alright, then give me an example of something similiar that Microsoft has done lately? I'm not saying that these issues aren't blown out of proportion on internet forums (for that would be the height of foolishness) but any way its spun, they are still dick moves on behalf of sony. Remember all that stuff that SO did with Star Wars: Galaxies? That was a dick move. The rootkit? Dick move. This advertising thing? Not as terribly illegal as some people have suggested, but its enough of a dick move for most people to say "Gee, that is in bad taste and I easily see through its blatant attempt to make me link "Sony" with "Urban" in my mind". All I'm saying is that there is a reason some people have been 'not a fan of' sony lately, and that reason is the shit that sony has been pulling.

[fitbabits]

Personally im waiting to see if Allards ship sinks like Dreamcasts ship had sank. I've seen some things that would suggest that pirating games on the xbox360 are very much possible with current technology.
And what? If the Xbox 360 sinks then your viewpoint will be vindicated? Not at all... I'm really struggling to understand the rationale of your comment here.

[fitbabits]

Alright, then give me an example of something similiar that Microsoft has done lately? I'm not saying that these issues aren't blown out of proportion on internet forums (for that would be the height of foolishness) but any way its spun, they are still dick moves on behalf of sony. Remember all that stuff that SO did with Star Wars: Galaxies? That was a dick move. The rootkit? Dick move. This advertising thing? Not as terribly illegal as some people have suggested, but its enough of a dick move for most people to say "Gee, that is in bad taste and I easily see through its blatant attempt to make me link "Sony" with "Urban" in my mind". All I'm saying is that there is a reason some people have been 'not a fan of' sony lately, and that reason is the shit that sony has been pulling.
Dick move could be the next value chain. :)

[ezra]

Dick move could be the next value chain. :)

Heh. Well, in my defense, I just think it's a really funny word and that it characterizes exactly what I'm trying to describe.

[Shadowmage952]

Dick move could be the next value chain. :)

No, it's simply a key step along the current value chain. :)

[Kefkataran]

Alright, then give me an example of something similiar that Microsoft has done lately? I'm not saying that these issues aren't blown out of proportion on internet forums (for that would be the height of foolishness) but any way its spun, they are still dick moves on behalf of sony. Remember all that stuff that SO did with Star Wars: Galaxies? That was a dick move. The rootkit? Dick move. This advertising thing? Not as terribly illegal as some people have suggested, but its enough of a dick move for most people to say "Gee, that is in bad taste and I easily see through its blatant attempt to make me link "Sony" with "Urban" in my mind". All I'm saying is that there is a reason some people have been 'not a fan of' sony lately, and that reason is the shit that sony has been pulling.

Lack of XBox 360s in America? Technical difficulties with the system? Problems with the promised backwards compatibility? The big reveal party on MTV that was just as shallow and stupid a marketing move as Sony's spraypaint marketing, if not more so? Don't get me wrong, I recognize that Microsoft is doing plenty right. I may even agree with Fit that they're doing more right than wrong currently. But they still have plenty of problems; those problems are just ignored in light of Sony's issues by people who like flaunting their company pride as loudly as possible.

[fitbabits]

No, it's simply a key step along the current value chain. :)
Dammit, I'll never get it right! :o

[Dirty Harry]

And what? If the Xbox 360 sinks then your viewpoint will be vindicated? Not at all... I'm really struggling to understand the rationale of your comment here.
It was just an unrelated comment, i personally think ms rushed things a bit too much ala saturn. My view point if you will, is that MS rushed to fast in too the market with the 360 and it might be their undoing this generation.

[Kelegacy]

Actually, this is a very common marketing tactic. Nike is famous for it. If you are curious to understand the rationale behind it, check out No Logo (http://nologo.org), an anti-globalization web site.

The basic psychology of this kind of advertising is to present something that is somewhat unattainable, and associate it with class standing (or "cool factor" or other such nonsense). This encourages even the poorest people to lower their standards of living in order to purchase or obtain exclusive items (Tommy Hilfiger, Nike, PSP, etc) that they don't need.

Lawyers, insurance/real-estate salesmen, and advertisers. The cancer of humanity.
Then people that try to live beyond their means by purchasing urban apparel aren't just poor...they're also retarded. That's a dangerous combination right there.

[ezra]

Lack of XBox 360s in America? Technical difficulties with the system? Problems with the promised backwards compatibility? The big reveal party on MTV that was just as shallow and stupid a marketing move as Sony's spraypaint marketing, if not more so? Don't get me wrong, I recognize that Microsoft is doing plenty right. I may even agree with Fit that they're doing more right than wrong currently. But they still have plenty of problems; those problems are just ignored in light of Sony's issues by people who like flaunting their company pride as loudly as possible.

No doubt that MS does stupid things as well. But all of the things you just described are more or less 'run of the mill' things that we take for granted with any console. I dont think that lack of a product indicates malicious intentions, nor do technical difficulties - every console launch (except maybe the ngage, because no one bought one) has had these issues. The launch party? You may remember the thread about that and how nearly everyone agreed it was vapid and ridiculous. And as for backwards capability, that's hardly something that MS is choosing to do - its a technical limitation. Teleporting unruly players into space in SW:G is not a technical limitation, its a value cha-I mean Dick move.

I think the thing that seperates these two companies and their respective mistakes is that a lot of Sony's seem to be more personal and more intrusive than MS's. Television program for launch VS advertising disguised as grafitti, Technical problems with console launch VS secret rootkit program hidden on CD's, etc. Sony's been fucking up lately, and I for one they stop it and go back to making a console.

[Kefkataran]

I dont think that lack of a product indicates malicious intentions, nor do technical difficulties - every console launch (except maybe the ngage, because no one bought one) has had these issues.

I've seen the interviews with Star Wars: Galaxies devs. You think the system changes they implemented indicate malicious intent? Of course not. They just felt they could do something better, so they tried it. Does that make it right? No, but it doesn't mean they had 'malicious intent. Same goes for the stupid marketing campaign. I haven't heard a thing about them teleporting players to space, but I'm guessing, just a guess here, that this isn't a huge move by corporate Sony. It's probably (this seems obvious) something that stupid server admin types are doing.

Sony's been fucking up lately, and I for one they stop it and go back to making a console.

The EvAv community has been blowing things out of proportion a lot lately, and I, for one, hope they stop it and go back to intelligent game discussion.

[ezra]

haven't heard a thing about them teleporting players to space, but I'm guessing, just a guess here, that this isn't a huge move by corporate Sony. It's probably (this seems obvious) something that stupid server admin types are doing.

Yeah, I wasn't talking about the new changes (I dont really follow the game that much) but there was an incident a while ago when upset players were being teleported into space. Of course this doesn't reperesent the entirety of the corporation, but its an example nontheless of the things that have been happening lately with SOE.

The EvAv community has been blowing things out of proportion a lot lately, and I, for one, hope they stop it and go back to intelligent game discussion.

The only way a company is going to get the message to stop doing stupid shit like the Rootkit fiasco is if consumers send them a message, through lawsuits or simply through purchasing choices. I for one would rather see people, including this community, blow things out of proportion if something stupid has been done rather than ignore it. And I hardly think that talking about this issue is going to lower the level of debate around here.

[Kelegacy]

I'd like to see you spell my first name right. ;)

Sorry. I'll give you permission to use my name, Kenny or Kenneth, and spell it with just one N anytime in the future.

But only once. More than that and I'll fucking kill you.

[Kelegacy]

Originally Posted by Kefkataran
The EvAv community has been blowing things out of proportion a lot lately, and I, for one, hope they stop it and go back to intelligent game discussion.

Slow news days do this sort of thing around here. I think most of the gaming world has this week off, so until January 3rd we're all shit out of luck. Hence the fifteen DOA4 posts on the front page. We're bored.

[Cool AN]

I am pretty sure they got permission by the owners (I seem to remember reading that), and they have stated they were removing the ads after a couple of weeks. So personally I don't really see the problem. But then again I don't live there.

[Slack3r78]

I think the reason (other than it being a slow news day) that this topic got so much attention is that it was front loaded with so much baseless speculation. From confusion over whether Sony paid/got permission from the building owners to comments like:
The "sort of people" who live near blighted urban buildings. Not that Sony cares whether or not they can afford a PSP.
I've yet to see any evidence that this is the case. The ads I've seen personally were in Little 5, which is a semi-trendy section of ATL, and I saw a couple others comment on seeing them in similar areas.

In fact, if I were to advertise in Little 5, I'd expect to reach a fairly young audience with a decent amout of disposable income... holy crap, that sounds like it just might be the PSPs target audience!

But clearly, this means Sony is targetting them poor peoples that can't afford that there PSP with them graff-ee-tee ads.

[thecrazyd]

There have been a few polls done here in the past and they've each shown that there is no major leaning in favor of any particular company or platform. I think this (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5964) is the most recent one.
However, there is a very clear tilt in our moderators.

[Sensei-X]

I saw these ads starting a few weeks ago in Los Angeles, now they have stickers with the same characters that are being plastered over other companies ads. I have to say one thing though, to me they never seemed to be PSP ads, if anything they seem to be anti-PSP ads. The ads to me and to a lot of people seem to be saying PSP takes over your life and turns you into a brain-washed zombie, don't know who thought the whole swirly eyes thing was a positive image to associate with their product.

[mister_slim]

Or tKuturagi's classic "it's not a design flaw, it's a feature" statement when quizzed about the location of the square button on the PSP.
You mean the manufacturing flaw that was fixed after early production runs? I don't think you should be blaming Kutaragi for your ignorance.
And consider yourself lucky I don't feed your comments through Babelfish twice before poking at them.

[Kefkataran]

The only way a company is going to get the message to stop doing stupid shit like the Rootkit fiasco is if consumers send them a message, through lawsuits or simply through purchasing choices. I for one would rather see people, including this community, blow things out of proportion if something stupid has been done rather than ignore it. And I hardly think that talking about this issue is going to lower the level of debate around here.

I'd prefer to see people using logic. Don't want to purchase Sony's stuff because of moral dilemmas with them? Fine with me. But don't go on some dumbass online crusade against them. It only makes you look silly. (Not specifically saying you've done that at all, just speaking in general).

Sorry. I'll give you permission to use my name, Kenny or Kenneth, and spell it with just one N anytime in the future.

But only once. More than that and I'll fucking kill you.

Consider that banked.

I think the reason (other than it being a slow news day) that this topic got so much attention is that it was front loaded with so much baseless speculation. From confusion over whether Sony paid/got permission from the building owners to comments like:

Exactrly, and exactly my problem with it. It's not that the story is posted. That makes sense. Let us see it and discuss about it. But immediately with the news post we're fed a certain perspective that isn't interested in confirming any facts about the story.


However, there is a very clear tilt in our moderators.

Mmmm.

[ezra]

I'd prefer to see people using logic. Don't want to purchase Sony's stuff because of moral dilemmas with them? Fine with me. But don't go on some dumbass online crusade against them. It only makes you look silly. (Not specifically saying you've done that at all, just speaking in general).


Agreed. I just really dislike this kind of attitude by corporations in general that often results in ridiculous advertising campaigns like this one. Its just the whole 'subversive' nature of it that bothers me (making it appear as though this was "naturally occuring" graffiti, instead of just an ad), it makes me think that the advertising execs that came up with this idea are really out of touch with reality.

Other examples of what im talking about are the afformentioned Acclaim marketing scandals (paying a couple to name their kid turok, paying people to put up advertistements for Shadowman on loved ones tombstones), pop up ads that fly around the page not allowing you to close them (do they really think im going to go to their website after they piss me off?).

Anyways.

/rant off

[fitbabits]

However, there is a very clear tilt in our moderators.
Nonsense! :p

[Zanzibar]

See, that's dumb though. I'm sorry, but Sony hasn't being doing anything more as far as marketting or silliness than any big company does. The only difference is that, on this site at least, Sony's stuff is much more advertised and blown out of proportion. It's the kind of stuff that goes on in crazy news posts like this one where they take something that, while somewhat dumb yes, is an unsurprising and likely legal (if subsequent posts are to be believed) marketting technique and they run with it in extreme directions.

Well, look, call me biased, but I really think we all got burned by Sony in the last generation, and developers were doubly burned. From the 'Toy Story-Quality Graphics' to the crappy hardware quality to the Emotion Engine to the terrible launch lineup, there was a lot of stuff that was coming out of Sony that ranged from 'failing to deliver on promises' to 'flat-out lies.' I can't remember Microsoft making the same number/kind of goofy promises when they were building up hype for the Xbox in 2001; as far as I'm concerned, Microsoft delivered a kickass system with a decent-to-solid launch lineup - they kept their promises to the public and to developers.

This time around, you have Ken Kutaragi talking about 'people will want to pay more for the PS3' and DVDs being 'aged like fine wine', and they debut at E3 with - you guessed it - prerendered movies. Meanwhile, MS has made a few missteps with Allard trying to be 'cool' and the MTV debut fiasco, plus the dual SKUs, but overall the X360 has delivered.

Sony can only blame themselves for any bad buzz they're getting from the gaming community who's tired of being fucked over by Sony lies.

Just take a look at the Phantom announcement in another thread - nobody trusts them, and they're getting flamed in the forums. Are you saying that we should ignore past transgressions by Infinium Labs?

[rein]

Well, look, call me biased, but I really think we all got burned by Sony in the last generation, and developers were doubly burned.

I kind of have to dissagree with that. How the hell do you figure developers got burned? The PS2 has been a cash cow for the industry.

[Kefkataran]

From the 'Toy Story-Quality Graphics' to the crappy hardware quality to the Emotion Engine to the terrible launch lineup, there was a lot of stuff that was coming out of Sony that ranged from 'failing to deliver on promises' to 'flat-out lies.'

Launch line-ups are always shit, but even still that's very opinion-based more than anything. Anyways, I see what you're saying with the crazy comments coming from one side of Sony, specifically Kutaragi. But I guess the major difference is that I mostly take those to be crazy rather than real promises, therefore not letting them get in the way of what the system is actually able to do or not do when it comes out. You'd probably get along well with the guy bitching about Infinity Ward's promises, though.

Listen, in the end I'm not even saying that the community should support Sony more or flame Microsoft more. I'm simply saying the amount of which this community latches onto and blows up even the smallest of Sony-related issues, such as this one, is very very ridiculous and serves to uncover a readily apparant and unfortunate bias. People have biases. That makes sense. We just tend towards them. But there's no reason to flaunt them so openly that we ignore logic and cool reasoning on the way. It's more than just "bad buzz", and I'm not even caring about its effects on Sony. It's just annoying and takes away from any semblence of real debate/discussion here at EvAv.

[bobbler]

Well, look, call me biased, but I really think we all got burned by Sony in the last generation, and developers were doubly burned. From the 'Toy Story-Quality Graphics' to the crappy hardware quality to the Emotion Engine to the terrible launch lineup, there was a lot of stuff that was coming out of Sony that ranged from 'failing to deliver on promises' to 'flat-out lies.' I can't remember Microsoft making the same number/kind of goofy promises when they were building up hype for the Xbox in 2001; as far as I'm concerned, Microsoft delivered a kickass system with a decent-to-solid launch lineup - they kept their promises to the public and to developers.

This time around, you have Ken Kutaragi talking about 'people will want to pay more for the PS3' and DVDs being 'aged like fine wine', and they debut at E3 with - you guessed it - prerendered movies. Meanwhile, MS has made a few missteps with Allard trying to be 'cool' and the MTV debut fiasco, plus the dual SKUs, but overall the X360 has delivered.

Sony can only blame themselves for any bad buzz they're getting from the gaming community who's tired of being fucked over by Sony lies.

Just take a look at the Phantom announcement in another thread - nobody trusts them, and they're getting flamed in the forums. Are you saying that we should ignore past transgressions by Infinium Labs?



You should have quit while you were ahead. Biased seems to be an understatement.

I beseech you to find where Sony actually said anything about Toy Story graphics, and yet how quick we forget Seamus' quote about Toy Story ("One of the basic premises of the Xbox is to put the power in the hands of the artist," Blackley said, which is why Xbox developers "are achieving a level of visual detail you really get in 'Toy Story.'" -- Here (http://news.com.com/2100-1040-250632.html)). And lets not forget the Raven demo that was shown -- comparing that to the tech demos that were shown displaying PS2s stuff and I have to question your ability to make any sort of valid claims about reality (the PS2 demos were almost all surpassed in games -- a character like the old man never found its way into a game, but that was sort of hard to beat...).

What does the launch lineup matter at this point? And at this point you'd be nuts to argue that Xbox's lineup of games that you need the system to play is anywhere near the quantity of PS2's. To say that sony didn't deliver with the PS2 is being a bit more than disingenuous. I question what kind of gamer you are if you think PS2 didn't deliver on the goods. I'd say MS has yet to deliver on the goods rather than Sony -- Honestly, what reasons are there besides superior looking multiplatform games, Ninja gaiden, and Halo2 (the other worthwhile exclusives I can play on PC, and multiplatform games are almost all garbage)? We seem to have differing opinions as to what getting burned means, because your getting burned seems to be my having played some of the best games ever in the last 5 years.

It takes a special kind of moron to think that Sony deserves the hate they get on this forum (as its either absent on other forums or MS/Nintendo get just as much shit). Anyone with half a brain knows this forum has a heavy bias and a few key members with agendas.

[Dracula-X]

Well, look, call me biased, but I really think we all got burned by Sony in the last generation, and developers were doubly burned. From the 'Toy Story-Quality Graphics' to the crappy hardware quality to the Emotion Engine to the terrible launch lineup, there was a lot of stuff that was coming out of Sony that ranged from 'failing to deliver on promises' to 'flat-out lies.' I can't remember Microsoft making the same number/kind of goofy promises when they were building up hype for the Xbox in 2001; as far as I'm concerned, Microsoft delivered a kickass system with a decent-to-solid launch lineup - they kept their promises to the public and to developers.
Biased? You're probably right. Gates said the 3-D chips in the Xbox would be three times faster than anything on the market and offer nearly unlimited graphical visuals. "We're approaching the level of detail seen in Toy Story 2," he said, referring to the computer-generated kids film from Disney/Pixar. (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,40970,00.html?tw=wn_story_related)

What's that? Looks like we have the same kind of (I'll use your words) lies coming from *** too! And right out of Gate's own flapping lips! Good lawd a' mercy!

Sony has delivered 2 generations of the best console gaming I've had in the last decade with the widest range of gaming variety. It is the XBox that has come up short in my opinion. I guess I just don't easily fit the "Run-and-gun, blow-shit-up" mould that pervades western gaming. To say that we got burned by Sony is a joke. To say that developers got burned by Sony is a joke too. The PS2 had the greatest penetration and Sony had the lowest licencing fees of the big 3 companies (including Sega), which gave those who developed on the platform the most returns for their investment across the major platforms.

And on a side note, I gotta address this. Not buying Sony hardware because of the this rootkit fiasco is profoundly fucking retarded. This is Sony BMG's doing, punishing the hardware division is not sending the message across. Sony BMG isn't even wholly owned by Sony, they actually own just half. If you want them to get your point, don't buy the music.

[Dirty Harry]

Wow bobbler, alucard, thank you for clearly expressing what i want to say but i just dont have the time.

[Kefkataran]

Yeah, kudos to Bobbler and Drac-X for having this shit down. Again, it's good and fine to have a bias, but it's stupid to play on it as much as a lot of the people in this community tend to do.

[Derwin]

Precisely. There was an article in the paper here (NYC) yesterday mentioning it, but no where did it say the buildings were abandoned or that it was graffiti. Only that they had bought the rights from the building owner.

Also, it's not like they are in scummy areas either. There's one in Tribeca near where I work and another in SoHo. Hardly areas of urban blight.

Hey Judas, where exactly are these ads? I'm in NYC too and I'm interested in checking one out. Y'know, just to see it.

[JudasGoat]

The exact one I can think of (by my work) is around Murray and Church. I think I saw the other on Prince and Mercer maybe? I saw it on my way to the Apple store as I recall.

[Zanzibar]

http://money.cnn.com/1999/03/01/life/playstation/

The article talks about the PS2 'Toy Story' connection, but does not give an exact quote from a Sony exec. I apologize if the buzz evolved into fact.

I wasn't talking about sales. Publishers are happy about sales. Devs are happy about being able to create games quickly and easily.

The devs got screwed by Sony's promises of an easier set of tools to work with the PS2. Go ask any developer if they think the PS2 has superior toolsets than the Xbox, Gamecube, or even the Dreamcast. Have them rank the systems. PS2 will come in dead last, even behind the PS1. Middleware engine companies like Renderware are making ridiculous amounts of money (FROM THE DEVELOPERS' BUDGETS) because the PS2 requires too damned many programmers to get any kind of decent mileage out of the crappy hardware. Conversely, Microsoft based their Xbox GPU on DirectX, which had loads of dev-friendly support already.

Yeah, I'm a developer, and with the PS2 and Xbox, I was lied to by Sony, and I was NOT lied to by Microsoft. As of right now, what I'm hearing from Sony about PS3 is EXACTLY what I was hearing before the PS2 launch, and what I heard from Microsoft about the X360 is EXACTLY what I heard before the Xbox was launched. I don't trust Sony to deliver on their promises, but until Microsoft screws me over, I'm going to trust them.

Again, call me biased. I'm telling you that, based on my experiences and what I know from the dev community, that Sony is not being honest with you. About the launch date, about Blu-Ray, about what it's going to cost, about what the quality of games will be at launch, about insinuating that you'll be better off waiting for the PS3 rather than buy an X360.

[Kefkataran]

About the launch date, about Blu-Ray, about what it's going to cost, about what the quality of games will be at launch, about insinuating that you'll be better off waiting for the PS3 rather than buy an X360.

At least two of those things (quality of games and whether or not you'd be better off waiting) are completely opinion-based. Obviously Sony's going to try to tell us, yes, the game quality will be better and we'll be better of waiting. But that's going to come down to personal opinion in the end, hence by implying they're 'not being honest', you're merely exercising your bias in the other direction. It's fine to have that bias and even exercise, I just don't like it being passed off as 'fact'.

As far as the other stuff, Sony hasn't announced ANYTHING official on the launch date or the cost, so I don't know how the hell they could be lying to us about it. The most you could probably dig up here are extremely vague, hopeful-sounding quotes from various execs, but that doesn't mean a thing. That's exactly what I mean about people taking Sony-related things here and blowing them out of proportion merely because of preconceived notions, not because of the actual weight or importance of whatever event or quote is being discussed.

[Zanzibar]

Here's something I dug up, I believe the link might be dead, but it's from the Magic Box forums. They link to the .pdf, but then made some snippets, and if it IS indeed a /pdf from Sony, then Sony themselves at least ALLUDED to comparing themselves with Toy Story:

http://www.hipinteractive.com/cms/c...ayStation21.pdf


Quote:
But the most significant aspect of the PS2 might be its ability to hook into the Internet, making it a "Trojan horse" to bring online gaming, e-commerce, Web browsing, e-mail and downloading of music, software and video into the home.

Quote:
"You can communicate to a new cybercity," gushes Ken Kutaragi, the visionary behind the PlayStation. "This will be the ideal home server. Did you see the movie 'The Matrix'? Same interface. Same concept. Starting from next year, you can jack into 'The Matrix'!"


Quote:
The secret is the Emotion Engine, a fast, high-powered chip set that is fine-tuned to generate polygons, the building blocks of 3-D graphics. While the original PlayStation could handle a mere 360,000 polygons per second, version 2 can spit out more than 20 million: it's a jump from "South Park" to "Toy Story."


Quote:
"It's historic, a mass-market appliance that fundamentally changes society in the way the printing press did," says Trip Hawkins, founder of Electronic Arts and CEO of 3DO. "This is a new canvas for humanity that takes us back to our nature."

How many of those hype-riddled quotes came true?

Oh, and here's the direct link to the Magic Box forum entries:
http://www.the-magicbox.com/forums/printthread.php?t=12824&pp=40

EDIT: Well, turns out this is from Newsweek article. No retractions from Sony, so I guess they liked the analogy, yes?

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/02-27-2000/0001150833&EDATE=

[ElectricMonk]

i recall n-gage doing the exact same thing. they had chalk writings on sidewalks in seattle when i lived there.

if i ever needed another reason to never get an n-gage that was it.

[Oddmaker]

Im gonna cut my dogs hair and make it say "buy a sony psp!" ;) so while im out walking her i'll be advitising for sony!

[fitbabits]

Im gonna cut my dogs hair and make it say "buy a sony psp!" ;) so while im out walking her i'll be advitising for sony!
Don't forget to then sell the pooch on eBay and link all the news stories that have been written about him/her. :)

[Oddmaker]

haha yeah ;)

[funtownarcade]

Anyone upset over this (OP) obviously doesnt live in a big city. Graffiti is part of urban culture there. I'm sure the guy who made Getting Up Contents Under Pressure, and the Obey Giant guy can afford a PSP.