360 Blamed for Sluggish Game Sales...?

[eth3rton]

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - The Xbox 360, a video game console and one of the hottest gifts in 2005, sold out so fast and so early that it may have inadvertently created a drain on the $25 billion gaming industry, according to a news report.
Full Story Here : 360 Sales (http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/26/technology/xbox/?cnn=yes)

Heres another related story :

360 Downturn...? (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051226-5844.html)

The Xbox 360 launch has been meet with mixed enthusiasm. While the console debuted mostly to yawns in Japan, the launch in North America was hectic: long lines, short supplies, and still thousands of people hoping for a post-Christmas miracle in the form of a New Year's Xbox 360 rush. The European launch was also strong. You might be inclined to think that the gaming industry is felling good about itself right now, but according to the Wall Street Journal (sub. required) that's not really the case.

[MasterEvilAce]

Or it could be that people blew all their money on CHRISTMAS GIFTS for non-gamers.

I don't see how the 360 would cause a decline in sales. Could it be that no good games were really released?

If I wanted a 360, and couldn't get one (and knew I wouldn't be able to for awhile).. I think most people would go and buy something else they want, that they can use NOW. Or else it'll burn a hole in your pocket, and fall out while you're walking down the street, and you'd be sad you never spent it.

It's also a good excuse to spend all your money so you can't ever really get robbed of it all at gunpoint.

[Goronmon]

Makes sense, not too many people will buy games for an older system if they plan to get a replacement anytime soon.

[Goronmon]

I think most people would go and buy something else they want, that they can use NOW.
If someone saves up $500 for an 360 that they would normally spent on games, they aren't going to blow it on something else just because they couldn't get the hardware by Christmas...

[Nite_Moogle]

You mean a product that had a production volume deficiency didn't sell as well as expected? No way!

[MasterEvilAce]

If someone saves up $500 for an 360 that they would normally spent on games, they aren't going to blow it on something else just because they couldn't get the hardware by Christmas...
You never know.

By the looks of things, everyone that really really wants one, won't all get one for awhile.

Logically, might as well wait it out... You'd probably end up buying it cheaper a little later, too.

[mister_slim]

I don't think the launch of a shiny new game console would dissuade Grandma from buying the chilluns a PS2 game. It's possible, I guess, that the 360 has accelerated the obsolescence of the current gen, because the part of the lifespan is historically the most profitable, but it seems unlikely. Maybe this is a sign that the game market is weaker than we think?

[fable2323]

Once next generation systems get announced, gamers tend to hold their money a little closer to their chests in hopes that one of them will come out and steal that money. Due to the 360 being released, alot of potential Xbox game sales were lost due to the new system. But, this is the trend that has occurred for years with each new consoles release. No one can blame Microsoft for the soft sales.

[eth3rton]

I think that "Some" sales were lost due to the 360 launch. Then again there surely "some" sales that were gained. Granny goes out to find a 360, can't so settles with whats available...Xbox, PS2, whatever....

[laggerific]

I don't know...I'm thinking of all the xbox games that are BC that I think would be awesome to play on the 360...I love how ninja gaiden looks...it's fantastic.

[Rirath]

I have to say, I'm really sick and tired of all these market / business forcasts this year. People didn't spend as much as predicted, people didn't buy what was predicted, our movie didn't make enough millions, our company didn't make as much as predicted... no, really? Wake up! Because, the people sure are starting to. I'd say "When the heck did businesses start thinking our money was pre-determined to line their pockets?", but that's obvious -- they've always thought so.

The bigger the game industry gets, the more money it expects off every single title, system, you name it. It's not enough to have a successful launch anymore, it's got to be a blockbuster that smashes records. It's got to set the bar, etc etc. Eeesh. Sluggish game sales? Maybe if people would quit overestimating and start making some conservative guesses instead of blaming the obvious, we'd have decent numbers. Then again, maybe weather forcasters will get it right one day too.

The two must have titles on my list were delayed until 2006. There's my reason for sluggish game sales. It's starting to remind me of the MPAA... box office sales are down because people don't like the movies, and don't have money to waste. 2005 has had several games that were great, but if you want to blame sluggish sales on anything, look around at the general economy and at the overall quality of the titles coming out (and not coming out) this year, not the 360.

I recently picked up 7 used (cheap, buy 2 get 1 free) and 1 new (Smash Bros Melee) GC games, and others in my family bought older games this holiday too. But that probably doesn't make anyone happy but me and my local Gamestop.

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

Miscrosoft killed gaming. Bastards.

[midrael]

From the sound of replies, I'm not sure everyone is understanding what's going on.

The companies are upset with Microsoft because they were unable to produce enough of the console by Christmas. This left publishers like EA with unsold 360 games which people aren't going to buy before they actually have the console. Saying that those lost sales are made up in purchases of other games is a bit of a misnomer because the publishers are counting on the full-price sales of their newest games for their economic forecasts. A newer product almost always sells more than older games, not to mention older games aren't going to make up for lost profit of full-priced new games.

Personally, I think it's not Microsoft's problem, but rather the publishers for overestimating what they thought could be sold without factoring in for the likelihood of a 360 shortage. But at least I can understand why they're upset.

[Bushi]

Given the highway robbery type bundling prices it possible that nobody had money left for anything else :p. Anyone who payed more then base retail for any 360 items is simple nuts IMO.

[GrinR]

For what it's worth, many of the bundles ARE base retail. I got a premium with 10 games (bundle). 400 for console + 60 per game = 1000 dollars. Which is what I paid.

Sure about half of them are still shrink wrapped, but that just means I'll be reselling or trading them. Meanwhile, honestly, I fucking love the shit out of Xbox360. Seriously. Achievements FTW!

[doubtingthomas]

For what it's worth, many of the bundles ARE base retail. I got a premium with 10 games (bundle). 400 for console + 60 per game = 1000 dollars. Which is what I paid.


Wow dude. Couldn't you just wait a couple of months? Play some PC games or something? I want one too, but I don't feel as though I'm missing anything until some titles like Elder Scrolls and Gears of War come out. However, if you're happy, kudos to you......

[Nameback]

I think its not the fact that many gamers are waiting for next, I think its the devlopers. I think its just so many devlopers have switched over to retooling for the 360 that the sheer amount of product that wasnt put out that normally is is the thing. Its not that gamers wernt buying, it was that devlopers wernt selling.

[buzzfunk]

Besides the fact that you cant even walk into best buy and get one, i have plenty of friends, incl. myself who just dont see the need for one right now. Sure PDZ looks cool. But like we dont have plenty of FPS on the pc. I think its really wise to wait til april/may next year. Still, this launch was rushed and with xbox still going strong i think MS shouldve waited...

[bapenguin]

I'm pretty sure all sales were down this holiday season...people simply don't have as much expendable income due to lack of faith in the economy and high gas prices.

[Evil Avatar]

The companies are upset with Microsoft because they were unable to produce enough of the console by Christmas. This left publishers like EA with unsold 360 games which people aren't going to buy before they actually have the console. Saying that those lost sales are made up in purchases of other games is a bit of a misnomer because the publishers are counting on the full-price sales of their newest games for their economic forecasts. A newer product almost always sells more than older games, not to mention older games aren't going to make up for lost profit of full-priced new games.

It might also be worth mentioning that we had the same kind of articles coming out when the PS2 launched and they were short systems from November - February.

Publishers can't sell product if the system isn't on the shelves, but I don't think that Electronic Arts suffered much because the PS2 was short systems during the launch, do you?

[Evil Avatar]

Still, this launch was rushed and with xbox still going strong i think MS shouldve waited...

No, waiting was a bad idea. By the time the PS3 comes out, Microsoft will have sold something like 3 - 5 Million Xbox 360 systems worldwide. That is a nice jump start for their new system.

You have to remember that the PS3 should be really expensive (I'm guessing $499 minimum.) and that its list of launch titles will be just as weak as every other list of launch titles.

And when the PS3 launches, there will be tons of Xbox 360's on the shelf - sitting right next to Halo 3.

[thecrazyd]

You have to remember that the PS3 should be really expensive (I'm guessing $499 minimum.) and that its list of launch titles will be just as weak as every other list of launch titles.
If you think it will be $499 minimum then you are a crazy person. $499 on the outside maximum. I would put it at $399.

[Pluvious]

Oh cry me a river.. what did they expect when they raised the price to $60+tax a game?? Boo hooo.. sales are down.. no shit.

[Kelegacy]

I'm pretty sure all sales were down this holiday season...people simply don't have as much expendable income due to lack of faith in the economy and high gas prices.
You can blame a whole lot on petroleum prices. It's ridiculous. I double think traveling to college friends' houses that are 100 miles away now. My next car definitely will be a hybrid of some sort...hell, it probably will HAVE to be. And the cost to heat an apartment/house is so astronomical these days, and steadily rising, that many families had to cut back a bit for Christmas. It didn't seem like mine had to, what with everything we gave each other, but the average family probably suffered a bit.

[bskeillor]

I agree on the $60 pricing, especially with EA. I can't speak from experience on the Activision "ports" but EA's games on the 360 are LESS superior to the PS2 and XBOX versions. Less features, better graphics, higher price. Call me a Nintendo fanboy, but I may be starting to see their logic in this next generation. They might be the cheapest to develop for. If they add an achievement system like MS did with Live, my bank account is gonna be pretty empty....

[Achilles]

I’d argue that unfortunately the $60 game prices affected sales not at all. The games that were $50 sold in about the middle of the lineup, but the top games were $60 games, one of which sold to 77% of the people who bought the console.

[Heretic Machine]

I cry me a river.. what did they expect when they raised the price to $60+tax a game?? Boo hooo.. sales are down.. no shit.

In the past three weeks I've been in a Gamestop three times. Each time I heard them recieve a call asking for used copies of either King Kong or Call of Duty 2 for the 360, and they were always turned away saying that there were no used copies yet. So obviously it is an issue for some people.

[A-Team]

If you think it will be $499 minimum then you are a crazy person. $499 on the outside maximum. I would put it at $399.
A $499 package would involve dynamic ads that pop up while you're playing a PS3 port of Final Fantasy XI asking you to purchase a 5-year subscription to AOL. If a company like Tiger can do dynamic ads for a POS handheld, then anyone can do it!

[Pluvious]

In the past three weeks I've been in a Gamestop three times. Each time I heard them recieve a call asking for used copies of either King Kong or Call of Duty 2 for the 360, and they were always turned away saying that there were no used copies yet. So obviously it is an issue for some people.

Well its enough for me along with the price of the unit itself. *** got too greedy this time and I'm sure a lot of people are like me and just not buying this time. Maybe in a year or two when the libary of games is decent and the price goes down... maybe.

[Hellstorm]

Well the industry is no longer growing but shrinking. The industry has seen sales declines for over three months and not just slightly, but by 40%. People in general are no longer interested in games. There are too many sequels. Of those sequels hardly any alter or change the basic gameplay.

What a player did in the last game they do again in the sequel; only just more of it. Nothing new, just more of the same but with better graphics. It has come to a point where people are no longer buying games for new experiances. They are just going through the motions.

Case in point, I asked a gmer why he wanted to get GTA:SA. He answered because it was GTA. I asked what's different gameplay wise from VC and 3. At that point clarity hit the poor soul and his jaw sort of slacked to the side. I could tell his gears were working in his head. He was really trying to find an honest answer, but couldn't. He wasn't buying games for the experiance anymore, he was buying them because he was just going through the motions (probably like the same poor souls that buy Madden on a yearly basis).

Why pay $60 for the same experiance for the third time in a generation or on a yearly basis? People are just losing interest. That's all. The wonder and magic is fading in favor of just tech. Controls are getting too complicated, the interface cluttered behind pointless and slick menus and "dashboards."

I honestly don't think the PS3 or the 360 is the key to the growing problem of people leaving gaming or growing tired of gaming. Newer tech and higher specs aren't the answers. I talked with a few others and none really see any new experiances coming out for the 360 or PS3. Just the same old thing with bazillions of polygons and models so normal mapped they look like they are covered in slime.

Is that what will attract people to gaming? Polygons and greasy looking characters? How is Gears of War going to get people to come back or into gaming? I don't think it will.

More or less, Nintendo is right. Hate them all you want. They are right. Who knows gaming better than Nintendo? A giant electronics company that wants to get you to accept movies on their media? Or a giant software company known for snuffing out innovation and competition? Nintendo only has one thing, games. That's it.

Hey I doubted the DS. I smacked my head against the desk and said, stupid, stupid, stupid. I bought one and now see why I play it more than ANY system I have ever owned.

That's why the Revolution is going to be a huge success. Doubt all you want, but I am more convinced that Nintendo knows the market well enough to look ahead. The Rev is going to really get people excited about the experiance of games. The interaction of games.

That's exciting, that's new to people. That's going go draw in people who left gaming or people who have never played games before because of price, or a controller.

Don't worry about the poor GTA person. I handed him my DS and Trauma Center and let him play for 20 minutes. It was great seeing a person have fun because of the way they were interacting with the game. A new experiance. Needless to say I think Nintendo got a new DS owner out of it.

I fully expect the Revolution to show other gamers, non-gamers, and me why I decided to make gaming my carreer. To give people new experiances and make them have fun. They don't care about graphics, about the number of cores your CPU has, or if it's a part of the HDTV generation. They want experiances, new and different.

The PS3 and 360 doesn't seem to offer that. And while I am sure the Rev will also have the same old same old, it will have MORe new experiances than any console before it.

[Kelegacy]

Well the industry is no longer growing but shrinking. The industry has seen sales declines for over three months and not just slightly, but by 40%. People in general are no longer interested in games. There are too many sequels. Of those sequels hardly any alter or change the basic gameplay.

What a player did in the last game they do again in the sequel; only just more of it. Nothing new, just more of the same but with better graphics. It has come to a point where people are no longer buying games for new experiances. They are just going through the motions.

Case in point, I asked a gmer why he wanted to get GTA:SA. He answered because it was GTA. I asked what's different gameplay wise from VC and 3. At that point clarity hit the poor soul and his jaw sort of slacked to the side. I could tell his gears were working in his head. He was really trying to find an honest answer, but couldn't. He wasn't buying games for the experiance anymore, he was buying them because he was just going through the motions (probably like the same poor souls that buy Madden on a yearly basis).

Why pay $60 for the same experiance for the third time in a generation or on a yearly basis? People are just losing interest. That's all. The wonder and magic is fading in favor of just tech. Controls are getting too complicated, the interface cluttered behind pointless and slick menus and "dashboards."

I honestly don't think the PS3 or the 360 is the key to the growing problem of people leaving gaming or growing tired of gaming. Newer tech and higher specs aren't the answers. I talked with a few others and none really see any new experiances coming out for the 360 or PS3. Just the same old thing with bazillions of polygons and models so normal mapped they look like they are covered in slime.

Is that what will attract people to gaming? Polygons and greasy looking characters? How is Gears of War going to get people to come back or into gaming? I don't think it will.

More or less, Nintendo is right. Hate them all you want. They are right. Who knows gaming better than Nintendo? A giant electronics company that wants to get you to accept movies on their media? Or a giant software company known for snuffing out innovation and competition? Nintendo only has one thing, games. That's it.

Hey I doubted the DS. I smacked my head against the desk and said, stupid, stupid, stupid. I bought one and now see why I play it more than ANY system I have ever owned.

That's why the Revolution is going to be a huge success. Doubt all you want, but I am more convinced that Nintendo knows the market well enough to look ahead. The Rev is going to really get people excited about the experiance of games. The interaction of games.

That's exciting, that's new to people. That's going go draw in people who left gaming or people who have never played games before because of price, or a controller.

Don't worry about the poor GTA person. I handed him my DS and Trauma Center and let him play for 20 minutes. It was great seeing a person have fun because of the way they were interacting with the game. A new experiance. Needless to say I think Nintendo got a new DS owner out of it.

I fully expect the Revolution to show other gamers, non-gamers, and me why I decided to make gaming my carreer. To give people new experiances and make them have fun. They don't care about graphics, about the number of cores your CPU has, or if it's a part of the HDTV generation. They want experiances, new and different.

The PS3 and 360 doesn't seem to offer that. And while I am sure the Rev will also have the same old same old, it will have MORe new experiances than any console before it.

Cheaper can be better. I'm starting to be wooed by Nintendo more and more lately. I bought a N64 at launch and though I enjoyed many titles--some of the best of my life--it left a sour taste in my mouth compared to the PS1. I was a dissenter at the beginning of the Gamecube era and even despised the DS. I thought, why own a Gamecube when I can have a PS2 and Xbox, or a DS or GBA when I can have a PSP? Well, I've since changed my tune. The GC I received last Xmas has some of the most solid titles on any of the 3 platforms and I'll actually be purchasing a DS in the next week or so. Is that nuts or what?

!Viva la Revolution! Hopefully the developers being forced out of business by rising costs will turn their sites on that new system, where it's not really about technology, but rather "gameology" and having fun.

[TrackZero]

I recently picked up 7 used (cheap, buy 2 get 1 free) and 1 new (Smash Bros Melee) GC games, and others in my family bought older games this holiday too. But that probably doesn't make anyone happy but me and my local Gamestop.

Ditto, it was all older titles I gave out this year. There's just so many good ones for cheap now, and many of the new titles aren't good enough to warrant that "new game" pricetag.

[TrackZero]

Is that what will attract people to gaming? Polygons and greasy looking characters? How is Gears of War going to get people to come back or into gaming? I don't think it will.

Whoa whoa, I largely agree with your points, but you really picked a bad example to slam on. Gears of War is finally going to be Xbox live co-op goodness in a 3rd person shooter game in a sweet-ass setting that I've been waiting for. It's the promise that Halo 2 gave and at the last minute, they dumped co-op. Bastards.

[dragonstomp]

Well I'll say this, I have been a gamer for over 25 years now and this is the first console that I couldn't get a hold of. (I did preorder) This is by far the worst launch availability I've seen in my neck of the woods. I had no trouble getting a ps2 launch day and from what you guys say that was pretty bad. I WOULD have bought several games for christmas this year IF i could have gotten one. I'm not hardcore enough to wait in line for a console for 3 days. :) As this month has gone by since launch I'm finding that my interest in the console has diminished quite a bit. Maybe it's b/c I'm getting older...I don't know. I even went out and got my equipment upgraded for the new round of consoles. With the way it's been handled, I'm not really in a hurry to go pick up my preorder..plus there's only a handful of games that peaked my interest. I was really counting on oblivion coming out with the console. Oh well :) I always have wow to play :P

[Hellstorm]

Whoa whoa, I largely agree with your points, but you really picked a bad example to slam on. Gears of War is finally going to be Xbox live co-op goodness in a 3rd person shooter game in a sweet-ass setting that I've been waiting for. It's the promise that Halo 2 gave and at the last minute, they dumped co-op. Bastards.

And again, how is Gears of War going to entice non-gamers or people who have left gaming because there are not any new experiances? If co-op is the best answer you can give... gaming is in trouble. If 3rd/1st person shooter and co-op is the answer give... gaming is in trouble.

How about giving people what they really want? New experiances beyond just graphics? New types of games, heck even non-games that can be played? If you shot one alien with a controller you pretty much shot them all, be it strogg, skar, or Covenant.

How about giving people new ways to play different things, different experinances? Like well... being a surgeon or an attorney? Or a different way to interact with a digital animal or creature or the action in a game?

Do you want this market to grow again or keep shrinking while we blast the same old creatures in the same old way we have been doing for the past decade or more?

Like I said, IMO, the Rev has the chance to capture the magic that has faded in this industry. It is going to be affordable, compairable, and easy to use and intuitive. People are seeing that with the DS and are choosing it over the PSP even with GTA in the PSP's corner.

The game market is declining and I am happy that one company, is atleast concerned enough to try and do something about it then sit there and say how many cores their CPU has. Yeah Nintendo cares about money, they are the most profitable company in the industry, but they also do care about gaming. They have to because that is the ONLY buisness they do.

[Hellstorm]

Well I'll say this, I have been a gamer for over 25 years now and this is the first console that I couldn't get a hold of. (I did preorder) This is by far the worst launch availability I've seen in my neck of the woods. I had no trouble getting a ps2 launch day and from what you guys say that was pretty bad. I WOULD have bought several games for christmas this year IF i could have gotten one. I'm not hardcore enough to wait in line for a console for 3 days. :) As this month has gone by since launch I'm finding that my interest in the console has diminished quite a bit. Maybe it's b/c I'm getting older...I don't know. I even went out and got my equipment upgraded for the new round of consoles. With the way it's been handled, I'm not really in a hurry to go pick up my preorder..plus there's only a handful of games that peaked my interest. I was really counting on oblivion coming out with the console. Oh well :) I always have wow to play :P


Try a DS with Trauma Center or Ace Attorney. I think you are really falling into the feeling of the sameness of the games that are out today.

The Rev should be a console you should look forward to. Sure the first few months of games might be gimmicky, but give it time and you are going to see lots of games where using the Revmote will be so awesome and give you new experiances, you will want all games to take advantage of it.

[TKO]

While I have to disagree with the GTA opinion (loved Vice City, and loved San Andreas more: for the new story, new game elements, larger more-varied world, infinitely better vehicle-physics, customizable character, etc.) I do agree generally that people do seem to be tired of the continual sequels being churned out.

My only recent purchases (over 2-3 years) have been Half Life 2, GTA:San An, IL-2 Sturmovik, Silent Storm, Pirates, and The Movies. HL2 and GTA are the only ones I bought based on their predecessors. Pirates, Silent Storm, IL-2, and The Movies I bought because they were something new for me. And I have to say that these rare opportunities to delve into something entirely different have been great.

Just about everything else I see on the shelves seems like some game I've played already. And most of the time I just use emulators to enjoy the superior originals anyway. :)

[automaton]

I was at my local Toys R Us today. I saw a guy buying an Xbox 360 core system. I asked the guy behind the counter if they had more. He said they had several more, but this was the last one he could sell. Managment told him they had to sell 360's in bundles with 4 other games($740). They were pretty much sold out and didn't have 4 Xbox360 games to sell so they weren't going to be selling any more of the consoles. It really didn't matter much to me because I'm not interested in the Xbox360 yet (too expensive and not enough games). I told him he better not tell anyone else this story or he would have a god damn riot on his hands.

As I was walking out of the store with 4 Nintendo DS games, he was telling the lady behind me in line the same story and it looked like the riot was starting. She was raising her voice and asking to speak with a manager.

[Groo]

Well the industry is no longer growing but shrinking. The industry has seen sales declines for over three months and not just slightly, but by 40%. People in general are no longer interested in games. There are too many sequels. Of those sequels hardly any alter or change the basic gameplay.

What a player did in the last game they do again in the sequel; only just more of it. Nothing new, just more of the same but with better graphics. It has come to a point where people are no longer buying games for new experiances. They are just going through the motions.

Case in point, I asked a gmer why he wanted to get GTA:SA. He answered because it was GTA. I asked what's different gameplay wise from VC and 3. At that point clarity hit the poor soul and his jaw sort of slacked to the side. I could tell his gears were working in his head. He was really trying to find an honest answer, but couldn't. He wasn't buying games for the experiance anymore, he was buying them because he was just going through the motions (probably like the same poor souls that buy Madden on a yearly basis).

Why pay $60 for the same experiance for the third time in a generation or on a yearly basis? People are just losing interest. That's all. The wonder and magic is fading in favor of just tech. Controls are getting too complicated, the interface cluttered behind pointless and slick menus and "dashboards."

I honestly don't think the PS3 or the 360 is the key to the growing problem of people leaving gaming or growing tired of gaming. Newer tech and higher specs aren't the answers. I talked with a few others and none really see any new experiances coming out for the 360 or PS3. Just the same old thing with bazillions of polygons and models so normal mapped they look like they are covered in slime.

Is that what will attract people to gaming? Polygons and greasy looking characters? How is Gears of War going to get people to come back or into gaming? I don't think it will.

More or less, Nintendo is right. Hate them all you want. They are right. Who knows gaming better than Nintendo? A giant electronics company that wants to get you to accept movies on their media? Or a giant software company known for snuffing out innovation and competition? Nintendo only has one thing, games. That's it.

Hey I doubted the DS. I smacked my head against the desk and said, stupid, stupid, stupid. I bought one and now see why I play it more than ANY system I have ever owned.

That's why the Revolution is going to be a huge success. Doubt all you want, but I am more convinced that Nintendo knows the market well enough to look ahead. The Rev is going to really get people excited about the experiance of games. The interaction of games.

That's exciting, that's new to people. That's going go draw in people who left gaming or people who have never played games before because of price, or a controller.

Don't worry about the poor GTA person. I handed him my DS and Trauma Center and let him play for 20 minutes. It was great seeing a person have fun because of the way they were interacting with the game. A new experiance. Needless to say I think Nintendo got a new DS owner out of it.

I fully expect the Revolution to show other gamers, non-gamers, and me why I decided to make gaming my carreer. To give people new experiances and make them have fun. They don't care about graphics, about the number of cores your CPU has, or if it's a part of the HDTV generation. They want experiances, new and different.

The PS3 and 360 doesn't seem to offer that. And while I am sure the Rev will also have the same old same old, it will have MORe new experiances than any console before it.


Your post started out well, then it turned into a Nintendo advertisement, and I stopped reading it. Nintendo has the right idea, but weak hardware and a gimmicky controller are not the solution. They're trying to force innovation, and it's not something you can force. The games I enjoy on my DS are not the ones that make use of the gimmicks, they're the ones with the most engaging gameplay.

The simple fact of the matter is that newer, faster graphics technology is exactly what opens the door for new experiences. The cycle has been the same since the beginning. When people got tired of the Atari, the NES allowed developers to make games they couldn't make on the Atari. When people got tired of the NES, the Super NES and Genesis let developers make the games they were incapable of making. Etc, etc.

The Xbox and the PS2 are not the pinnacle of technology, neither are the Xbox 360 or the PlayStation 3. However, the Xbox 360 is already allowing developers to make the games that they couldn't make on PS2/Xbox.

Call of Duty 2 is a great example. It may seem like just another WW2 game, but even at this early point in the Xbox 360's lifespan, it shows us how new technology can breathe new life into a stale genre. The sheer amount of enemy combatants on screen at once, the intelligent AI, the wide open levels, the volumetric smoke effects, etc. all serve to make it one of the most engaging games I've played in a while, and I hate WW2 shooters. It makes you feel more like you're in the thick of combat than any other game before it.

The more powerful hardware of the PS3 and Xbox 360 gives developers the tools to make better games, and it also them to take game design to entirely new levels. The question is, which publisher is willing to take the risk, and to fund the next innovation?

How about giving people new ways to play different things, different experinances? Like well... being a surgeon or an attorney? Or a different way to interact with a digital animal or creature or the action in a game?

You do realize that Phoenix Wright is a port of a GBA game, don't you? There's nothing that game does that really requires either dual screens or a touch screen. The case tacked on at the end has a few gimmicky features, but they don't improve the game at all. I though Phoenix Wright was incredible, but I would have enjoyed it just as much on GBA.

[TrackZero]

And again, how is Gears of War going to entice non-gamers or people who have left gaming because there are not any new experiances? If co-op is the best answer you can give... gaming is in trouble. If 3rd/1st person shooter and co-op is the answer give... gaming is in trouble.

How about giving people what they really want? New experiances beyond just graphics? New types of games, heck even non-games that can be played? If you shot one alien with a controller you pretty much shot them all, be it strogg, skar, or Covenant.

How about giving people new ways to play different things, different experinances? Like well... being a surgeon or an attorney? Or a different way to interact with a digital animal or creature or the action in a game?

Do you want this market to grow again or keep shrinking while we blast the same old creatures in the same old way we have been doing for the past decade or more?

Like I said, IMO, the Rev has the chance to capture the magic that has faded in this industry. It is going to be affordable, compairable, and easy to use and intuitive. People are seeing that with the DS and are choosing it over the PSP even with GTA in the PSP's corner.

The game market is declining and I am happy that one company, is atleast concerned enough to try and do something about it then sit there and say how many cores their CPU has. Yeah Nintendo cares about money, they are the most profitable company in the industry, but they also do care about gaming. They have to because that is the ONLY buisness they do.

Buddy, I love Nintendo, get off the high horse. I'm NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU. Fuck. All I said is you picked a bad example. Get over it. I can like Gears of War AND the Revolution, insanity, I know.

[bskeillor]

Funny Toys R Us story. I was in there and a woman was going to buy a DS and the lady behind the counter told her she wasn't allowed to sell one without their warranty. The lady was pissed, but I couldn't stick around and see the outcome. One thing I've found about being an older gamer with a wife and kids now, is that gaming time is at a premium and needs to be enjoyed in short little bursts. I can't buy DQ8 because I don't have 40 hours to spend on a game, playing hours at a time. Same with GTA. My 360 has been used primarily for the downloadable Live Arcade games, and I am very satisfied with it. I still can't play FPS games, but hope that the Revolution will change that. The only FPS I could play was Metroid Prime, and I struggled through Halo 2. I'm also writing off Sports sims also, so I can see myself in a year putting money directly in MS and Nintendo's pockets downloading their retro catalogue.

[Rirath]

Do you want this market to grow again or keep shrinking while we blast the same old creatures in the same old way we have been doing for the past decade or more?

Shrinking while we blast the same old creatures in the same old way we have been doing for the past decade, please. Good times, good times.

People are seeing that with the DS and are choosing it over the PSP even with GTA in the PSP's corner.

And again, the DS has a vast history and library of many "more of the same" titles as well. Nintendo Evangelists just ignore that. The Gameboy/GBA/DS N64/GC has so much "more of the same" it's the very bread and butter of the machines, yet they are still some of my favorite games. Hint, anything with a "super" or "64" or "advance" or etc is more than likely "more of the same".

The game market is declining and I am happy that one company, is atleast concerned enough to try and do something about it then sit there and say how many cores their CPU has.

They'll be plenty of hardware spec talk, once there are known specs to talk about. This I am confident about.

[Rirath]

I can't buy DQ8 because I don't have 40 hours to spend on a game, playing hours at a time.

What's wrong with several short bursts? Games don't have time limits.

Same with GTA.

GTA is one of the most pick up and play games to come along on a console in some time.

My 360 has been used primarily for the downloadable Live Arcade games, and I am very satisfied with it.

See, I just can't understand why sock all that money into a brand new system, to play retro games. You could buy some guy's whole library off Ebay for the money.

I still can't play FPS games

PC FPS games have quicksave, worth a shot. (You don't need top of the line equipment to make it run, it doesn't sound like you care about graphics.)

[Evil Avatar]

Um... the last time I checked, the market wasn't shrinking. It was growing. We had someone post sales figures just a few days ago and video game sales are in the billions.

[Hellstorm]

They'll be plenty of hardware spec talk, once there are known specs to talk about. This I am confident about.

If you think Nintendo is going to talk up their specs on the Rev, you are going to be sorely mistaken come E3.

[Hellstorm]

Um... the last time I checked, the market wasn't shrinking. It was growing. We had someone post sales figures just a few days ago and video game sales are in the billions.


You mean growing as in this:

http://videogames.yahoo.com/newsarticle?eid=412241&page=0

Gaming down 24% in October in 2005 than in 2004?

or do you mean growing as in this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051214/tc_nm/media_videogames_dc

Where game sales dropped 18% this November.

exactly where is this growth you speak of?

[Hellstorm]

Shrinking while we blast the same old creatures in the same old way we have been doing for the past decade, please. Good times, good times.


Yeah, Doom 3 and Quake 4 really changed the gaming environment. Brought in tons of people too, I bet. :p

[Hellstorm]

You do realize that Phoenix Wright is a port of a GBA game, don't you? There's nothing that game does that really requires either dual screens or a touch screen. The case tacked on at the end has a few gimmicky features, but they don't improve the game at all. I though Phoenix Wright was incredible, but I would have enjoyed it just as much on GBA.

Yes I know, but the final case was made for the DS and I highly doubt you could have gotten the same interactivity on the GBA nor would you have gotten the nice 3D evidence investigation.

As far as 360 allowing developers to do things they can't do on the Xbox... I haven't seen and quite honestly many people haven't seen anything on the 360 that you can't already have on consoles we have at this time.

[midrael]

Your post started out well, then it turned into a Nintendo advertisement, and I stopped reading it. Nintendo has the right idea, but weak hardware and a gimmicky controller are not the solution. They're trying to force innovation, and it's not something you can force. The games I enjoy on my DS are not the ones that make use of the gimmicks, they're the ones with the most engaging gameplay.

Actually, in my experience, both innovation and invention are almost always forced. A new technique or method of doing something is created, companies adopt it and push this new method, then the public either picks it up or doesn't. The reason a company is more likely to try and force their new method rather than make it optional is that human beings are creatures of habit. If given the choice, I would say that a vast majority of humanity will always go with what they are familiar with.

All I know is that when the DS came out, all I read on every gaming site was talk about how gimmicky the dual screen and touch pad method was going to be. At the beginning it was, but the system obviously needed to mature. You can go over and read Tycho's post on Penny Arcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com) to see just one person's conversion regarding the DS. Of course, this is my humble opinion, but I do believe it's too early to say whether or not the Rev controller will be effective or not.

The simple fact of the matter is that newer, faster graphics technology is exactly what opens the door for new experiences. The cycle has been the same since the beginning. When people got tired of the Atari, the NES allowed developers to make games they couldn't make on the Atari. When people got tired of the NES, the Super NES and Genesis let developers make the games they were incapable of making. Etc, etc.


Ick. Newer and faster graphics technology opened the door for new experiences when the increases were far more significant.. 8 bit to 16 bit.. 16 to 32. These jumps, you were seeing significant advances. The problem with relying on graphics technology is that its total purpose is to get closer and closer to "reality" graphics. Eventually, graphics plateau and then where do you go? The way it used to be, a graphics improvement meant going from mario to mario 2.. or zelda 3 to zelda 64. Now, the major advances are additional shader techniques, slightly improved texturing and bump mapping. I won't deny that it looks better and crisper and more real. I'm just saying that you can't rely on graphics technology forever. Eventually, you hit a dead end.

[riposte101]

The reason for sluggish sales this year compared to last is that Halo 2 and GTA San Andreas came out at years end last year.

[Groo]

Yes I know, but the final case was made for the DS and I highly doubt you could have gotten the same interactivity on the GBA nor would you have gotten the nice 3D evidence investigation.

There wasn't much "interactivity." There was nothing they did with the touchscreen that couldn't have been accomplished with the face buttons. In fact, I ended up using the face buttons 99% of the time, and only used the touch screen when I was forced to do so.

Also, rotating 3D objects around a set path is hardly some new innovation that can only be accomplished with a touchscreen. Resident Evil CODE Veronica let you rotate objects in your inventory around, just like in Phoenix Wright. And, just like in Phoenix Wright, you had to rotate them a certain way to advance the game.

"Tappning" the screen to spray luminol or spread fingerprint dust is something that easily could have been done with a cursor. Does it make it more interactive? Yes. Is it anything more than a gimmick? No. Also, blowing fingerprinting dust off was absolutely pointless, and it gave me a headache too (I was hungover at the time I was playing).

For the most part, that final case could have been done pretty easily on the GBA. Even the crudely rendered 3D looked like something the GBA could handle.

As far as 360 allowing developers to do things they can't do on the Xbox... I haven't seen and quite honestly many people haven't seen anything on the 360 that you can't already have on consoles we have at this time.

You haven't seen? Maybe you should try playing some of the games. Just compare the Call of Duty games on Xbox to Call of Duty 2. At times, there's an overwhelming number of soldiers coming at you in COD2, far beyond what the Xbox 1 can do.

Same thing with Kameo. Just try playing through the level where you ride your horse through a huge battlefield with an uncountable number of goblins all around you. If you think the Xbox can do that, you're dreaming.

And keep in mind that all this is running at 2x the resolution of the Xbox 1.

[Groo]

Actually, in my experience, both innovation and invention are almost always forced. A new technique or method of doing something is created, companies adopt it and push this new method, then the public either picks it up or doesn't. The reason a company is more likely to try and force their new method rather than make it optional is that human beings are creatures of habit. If given the choice, I would say that a vast majority of humanity will always go with what they are familiar with.

You have a point. However, that isn't exactly what I mean by "forcing" innovation. What I mean is that Nintendo is trying their damndest to innovate, but the results seemed forced, and unnatural. And, in the end, instead of being truly innovative, they end up being gimmicky.

All I know is that when the DS came out, all I read on every gaming site was talk about how gimmicky the dual screen and touch pad method was going to be. At the beginning it was, but the system obviously needed to mature. You can go over and read Tycho's post on Penny Arcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com) to see just one person's conversion regarding the DS. Of course, this is my humble opinion, but I do believe it's too early to say whether or not the Rev controller will be effective or not.

To me, the DS is still gimmicky. However, it does have a lineup of quality software. But have you noticed that most of these titles don't actually make use of the touchscreen very effectively? Most of these games aren't innovative, rather, they're just new versions of old IP, with some touch screen stuff tacked on. Just like the Gamecube, the DS is surviving on Nintendo franchises that were innovative years ago.

Mario Kart DS, Animal Crossing DS, Mario and Luigi DS, and Advance Wars DS are perfect examples of this. These are Nintendo franchises that have been around for years. Their new DS versions are solid games, but they would be just as good on a system without a touchscreen. The touchscreen is not an essential part of their design.


Ick. Newer and faster graphics technology opened the door for new experiences when the increases were far more significant.. 8 bit to 16 bit.. 16 to 32. These jumps, you were seeing significant advances. The problem with relying on graphics technology is that its total purpose is to get closer and closer to "reality" graphics. Eventually, graphics plateau and then where do you go? The way it used to be, a graphics improvement meant going from mario to mario 2.. or zelda 3 to zelda 64. Now, the major advances are additional shader techniques, slightly improved texturing and bump mapping. I won't deny that it looks better and crisper and more real. I'm just saying that you can't rely on graphics technology forever. Eventually, you hit a dead end.

Graphics have a long way to go before they "plateau." Games like GTA show us that we're still a long way from "plateauing." Games like GTA show us quite clearly the limits of modern consoles. The city in current GTA games is a simple, crappy simulation of a city. The Xbox 360 and PS3 will allow developers to have a city the size of GTA, with more complexity than the tiny town in Shenmue.

And this is something that I should have talked about sooner, but there is always a "transitionary" state between console generations. At first, game developers get their hands on new technology, and they either have no clue what to do with it, or they don't have the time to properly utilize it. Therefore, first gen games on new hardware tend to be very similar to the last gen games on the older hardware, except with tarted up graphics.

Just compare early PS2 games like Summoner with later PS2 games like God of War. Similarly, in a few years, I'm sure we'll be comparing Perfect Dark Zero to some as-yet-to-be released third generation Xbox 360 game that blows it out of the water.

Perfect Dark Zero is a really fun game, with fantastic graphics. The huge multiplayer maps are a great example of something that is impossible on Xbox 1. However, it is hampered a bit because it started its life as a Gamecube game. I'm sure Rare's next effort on Xbox 360 will let them realize the full potential of the hardware, and will allow them to innovate in ways we have a hard time imagining at this point.

[midrael]

Most of these games aren't innovative, rather, they're just new versions of old IP, with some touch screen stuff tacked on. Just like the Gamecube, the DS is surviving on Nintendo franchises that were innovative years ago.

Mario Kart DS, Animal Crossing DS, Mario and Luigi DS, and Advance Wars DS are perfect examples of this. These are Nintendo franchises that have been around for years.

Might I just say, truer words have never been spoken. While I may not share your opinion that the DS is gimmicky (though perhaps the current crop of games may make gimmicky use of the technology), I SO wish that Nintendo would come up with new franchises rather than relying so heavily on their already established tentpost franchises.

I recently played Mario All-Star Baseball and Super Mario Strikers for the Gamecube and wow those are really fun games to play. But still.. I can only take so much Mario applied to every Nintendo game that comes out :P

Graphics have a long way to go before they "plateau." Games like GTA show us that we're still a long way from "plateauing." Games like GTA show us quite clearly the limits of modern consoles. The city in current GTA games is a simple, crappy simulation of a city. The Xbox 360 and PS3 will allow developers to have a city the size of GTA, with more complexity than the tiny town in Shenmue.

Oh don't get me wrong.. I'm not saying that graphics has reached that plateau. I'm just saying that it's an inevitability.

I'm not going to purport to being an expert or have any sort of real statistical information to back me up, I'm just stating my perspective of course. The way I see graphics is like an exponential curve. The vertical on the curve would be the amount of graphics technology advancement, and the horizontal would be the market penetration based on the technology advancement. As more advancement is put in, the penetration will always increase but in gradually decreasing increments if that makes sense.

I also think that a problem with incremental graphic advancements is that they rarely open up new markets. Usually, when a game or console improves their graphics, they're competing for the existing market of gamers. I get the feeling that attempts like the DS, Revolution possibly, games like Guitar Hero and DDR, are all trying to open up new gamer markets instead of compete for existing ones. Will the Rev be successful? Who knows.. very possibly not at all. I'd love to see Sony and Microsoft take a stab into some serious innovation as well though. Heaven knows I'd love to see more games that create new game-styles.

2006 at the very least looks like it'll be an interesting year for gamers. That much is certain, and I'm looking forward to it :)

[TrackZero]

I recently played Mario All-Star Baseball and Super Mario Strikers for the Gamecube and wow those are really fun games to play. But still.. I can only take so much Mario applied to every Nintendo game that comes out :P

Just wait until the Revolution launch, when "Metroid: Beach Volleyball" comes out, and we get to watch Samus bounce. ;)


Edit: Get your minds out of the gutter. Samus will literally be the ball. :rolleyes:

[midrael]

Just wait until the Revolution launch, when "Metroid: Beach Volleyball" comes out, and we get to watch Samus bounce. ;)


Edit: Get your minds out of the gutter. Samus will literally be the ball. :rolleyes:

Ah nothing like the image of Wario in beachwear and that belly bouncing as he goes up to spike the Samus-ball!

*cringes*

[vallor]

/snip snip!

Case in point, I asked a gmer why he wanted to get GTA:SA. He answered because it was GTA. I asked what's different gameplay wise from VC and 3. At that point clarity hit the poor soul and his jaw sort of slacked to the side. I could tell his gears were working in his head. He was really trying to find an honest answer, but couldn't. He wasn't buying games for the experiance anymore, he was buying them because he was just going through the motions (probably like the same poor souls that buy Madden on a yearly basis).

/snip nintendo extremism


I hope, for nintendo's sake that the rev is everything you dream about. I hope you're prepare for it not to be, at this point I fear you will suffer a huge implosion and your psyche will never recover should the rev do "so-so" in the market.

However thats something to see when they actually release. I did however have issue with the above statement about GTA.

As one of the most popular games last year with some of the highest review scores your comment is way off the mark.

A game with insane sales that are right in line with great reviews probably deserves a little more credit for being a good game and a fine continuation of the franchise than you seem to be willing to allow for.

Did people buy Super Mario 3 just cause they were in the habit of buying super mario titles? Did Final Fantasy just happen to coerce people into purchasing their record setting titles (well up to 7 anyway)? I guess Castlevania and Metroid install pavlovian responses into the people that bought Prime 2 (MOTS) and the gillion Castlevania titles. Most of those games have even less "innovation" above and beyond their predicessor as GTA:SA did.

I, for one enjoyed many metroid hours, many Dracula slaying, collecting tons of coins (regardless of if I was hitting the box with just a super sized mario or one with a tail), or leveling my Black Mage so I could get the upgraded class.

And those are just a few of the block buster nintendo titles that innovated on a lesser scale than GTA did between versions.

Hows that saying about stones and glass houses go again?

My opinion, its worth what you paid for it...
-Vallor

[Achilles]

Well the industry is no longer growing but shrinking. The industry has seen sales declines for over three months and not just slightly, but by 40%. People in general are no longer interested in games. There are too many sequels. Of those sequels hardly any alter or change the basic gameplay.You either work for Nintendo’s marketing, or you pay very, very close attention to what they say. This could easily be (or might actually be) a quote right out of one of Reggie’s recent speeches (http://cube.ign.com/articles/664/664495p1.html) , as could be the rest of your post. Sales decline over three months has been 40%? So you’re saying the sales in September were 40% higher than the sales are this month, and it’s been declining every month leading up to Christmas? Or are you saying that it has declined 40% over last year, because that's refuted by the articles you posted later.

If people are no longer interested in games than how come the PS2 is the best selling console in the history of video games (for where it's at in its lifetime; 100 million units in 5 years)?How about giving people new ways to play different things, different experinances? Like well... being a surgeon or an attorney? Or a different way to interact with a digital animal or creature or the action in a game?The games with Strogg shooting sell much better than the ones where you’re a surgeon or an attorney. How does this support your argument that what people really want is games that are completely unlike what people have now, when those are your two examples of what those games would be? And those are good versions of attorney and surgeon games too, they’re not crap, so if people were interested, that would be the kind of thing they would be interested in. Halo 2 which came out just last year sold extremely well, better than the first one, so where’s the drop in sales that you’re talking about? Same goes for CoD2?

Just giving the other side of it: Maybe, people really like shooting things and that’s why those games are popular. Maybe they see deeper into a game than just shooting stuff and they enjoy the differences in weapons, AI interaction and so-on between the shooters. The mood in Halo 2 and CoD2 is completely different, both games are a different experience end to end, despite one not being played with a positionally aware remote or stylus.
You mean growing as in this:

http://videogames.yahoo.com/newsarticle?eid=412241&page=0

Gaming down 24% in October in 2005 than in 2004?

or do you mean growing as in this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051214/tc_nm/media_videogames_dc

Where game sales dropped 18% this November.

exactly where is this growth you speak of?This is my favorite line from your links, which, by the way directly contradicts all your games sales slump arguments: Overall industry sales in dollars were up 5 percent year-to-date, NPD said.And that was despite GTA:SA and Halo 2 releasing last year, as riposte pointed out. If there had been 7 million 360s out there instead of 330,000 or whatever sorry number they managed to wrangle up, the numbers would have been much different. The big thing for last year was Halo 2 and SA. The big thing for this year wasn't available.

I think you need to take a deep breath and stop reading so many Nintendo press releases. You clearly really believe in their new system. Maybe it'll be everything you want it to be, but try to keep a clear head about it. You're a heck of an evangalist though, so if that's your goal, good job.

[Lutheran]

"Tappning" the screen to spray luminol or spread fingerprint dust is something that easily could have been done with a cursor. Does it make it more interactive? Yes. Is it anything more than a gimmick? No. Also, blowing fingerprinting dust off was absolutely pointless, and it gave me a headache too

Well you can have sex with your hand whilst looking at pics on the net and achieve orgasm or you can have sex with a hot chick and get the same end result..the point being Ill take the more interactive route any day. It totally add's to the experience. I mean using your logic here we can eliminate analog sticks , just use the button or why use a wheel and pedal setup when you have the cursor and buttons.

[Cha-Ka]

Classic console launch stuff. Lots of hardware sold to people who realize only too late they can either buy games for their older consoles, buy shitty launch games, or wait and not buy games at all. Don't believe the hype.

[see colon]

i thought his thread had a topic

the lack of xbox 360's helped sony more than anyone else. many parents who wanted to get their children a 360 bought the next newest thing, a PSP. it's the next newest, next epensive piece of gamong hardware on the market. and i expect we'll see sony bragging about the number of units they shipped this giftmas soon enough(sony never releases sold numbers, even when they say sold).

[Groo]

Well you can have sex with your hand whilst looking at pics on the net and achieve orgasm or you can have sex with a hot chick and get the same end result..the point being Ill take the more interactive route any day. It totally add's to the experience. I mean using your logic here we can eliminate analog sticks , just use the button or why use a wheel and pedal setup when you have the cursor and buttons.

It's interesting to hear that you prefer your DS's touch screen to a woman's vagina.

[pdeupree]

One thing that I think has contributed to lower game "sales" that I don't think anyone has really touched on is massively multiplayer games. For me, personally, I have found that, if I'm paying $X per month on a MMOG of some sort, I don't want to waste that money. That being the case, it significantly cuts into my time to play other games.

In the middle of last year we saw City of Heroes released. Then toward the end of last year we saw World of Warcraft released. These are only the two major released that sucked up my time. There are many others such as Star Wars Galaxies or Everquest 2 that might have hooked other people.

I imagine the sales figures that are quoted by all the press don't include how much money is pulled in via monthly or yearly fees associated with online gaming. With 5 million copies of WoW out there at $13 a month, and it was 4 million copies back in April, how much revenue due to gaming is coming out there? Assuming 5 million copies for a full year coming up, that's $780 million a year for WoW alone.

In addition to all of this, I think that the quantity of games has grown FAR too fast. I still buy a few single player games here and there, and I'm actually working my way through Dragon Quest VIII, but there are a lot of games I'm interested in that I don't buy because there are just too many and I know I'll play an hour of the game and then be distracted by something else.

The fact is that the gaming market is flooded now, and such things in any market are what happens when demand increases quickly. Just like the internet bubble, or the tech bubble, the game bubble was due to burst because supply has grown faster than demand. I seriously doubt it means the industry is doomed since I don't think there is anyone reading this web page that aren't still playing SOME video or computer game.

If you look at it, leisure entertainment as a whole is having issues. When you look at it these days, when someone is choosing what to do in their spare time, they can choose from TV (with more and more channels added every day), film (both theater and DVD), radio (both broadcast and satellite) and video games (with a long list of possible platforms to play on). In the midst of all that are other activites that are loosing popularity such as reading (though toward that end you have "best selling" authors spamming tons of books out, plus lord knows how many magazines), and physical exercise.

[Darcydian]

I would tend to agree, the secondary gaming market (CCG's, Boardgames, Tabletops games, etc.) are having a FANTASTIC year. People, and i'm one of them, are getting their game on elsewhere. I haven't really had a SOLID game experience the last half of this year aside from Civilization 4, which is pretty much the only game I boot up anymore out of the 4-5 I've bought in the last 6 months. I have however spent over $300 on MtG Cards and different boardgames.

[dr_wily]

Just wait until the Revolution launch, when "Metroid: Beach Volleyball" comes out, and we get to watch Samus bounce. ;)


Edit: Get your minds out of the gutter. Samus will literally be the ball. :rolleyes:

jesus, just bring a new beach spikers. that game is still awesome fun.. one of the only solid same screen 4 player games to come out in a while

[Exodus]

What I'm sad about is, is that there are no rpg's out, and the only major games out for the console are on the 360, and their rpg ain't comin til march. So it's just WoW time for me. ;\
just nothing out right now worth getting, I already bought, beat bo: revenge, nfs:mw. Gothic 2 a game that's been out for like.. 2yrs already in the UK is finally coming here.. *sigh* I guess this will keep me happy...

All I can say is... spellforce 2, the witcher, nwn2, dragon age, oblivion, hellgate: london please now :(

[Lutheran]

It's interesting to hear that you prefer your DS's touch screen to a woman's vagina.


LOL , it all depends on how big the pantys are that surround that vagina. Did anyone see the curb your enthusiasm episode with the maid and her big vagina? Hilarious..

[mister_slim]

Same thing with Kameo. Just try playing through the level where you ride your horse through a huge battlefield with an uncountable number of goblins all around you. If you think the Xbox can do that, you're dreaming.
I seem to remember reading recently about a PS2 game that has up to 65 thousand enemies on screen at once. I would assume the Xbox should be able to handle that as well.

[Groo]

I seem to remember reading recently about a PS2 game that has up to 65 thousand enemies on screen at once. I would assume the Xbox should be able to handle that as well.

How about you actually provide some screenshots?

[mister_slim]

It's called ikatsugami or something like that, it just came out in Japan. Screenshots you can find yourself.

[Hellstorm]

I seem to remember reading recently about a PS2 game that has up to 65 thousand enemies on screen at once. I would assume the Xbox should be able to handle that as well.

Not to mention that both Star Wars games on the GC by Factor 5 had hundreds of TIE Fighters on the screen. Amazing what you can do with really good LOD.

So...

[Sensei-X]

If anyone is to be blamed for lousy sales this year it's Sony, with all the talk about a Spring PS3 release everyone is under the impression Sony is releasing PS3 at the beginning of March and they need to save up for the PS3, so the PS2 game sales have gone down the crapper. Not to mention this year's PS2 holiday line-up wasn't all that impressive versus 2004's

[see colon]

i'm pretty interested in hardware sales for december. my loca EB claims that gamecube sales were rediculous because of the mario party bundle. one employee estimates an almost 1:1 ratio with ps2 sales.

[mister_slim]

i'm pretty interested in hardware sales for december. my loca EB claims that gamecube sales were rediculous because of the mario party bundle. one employee estimates an almost 1:1 ratio with ps2 sales.
That seems really high. Mario Party 7 was one of Amazon's top three games this holiday though, so high bundle sales wouldn't surprise me that much.

[Groo]

It's called ikatsugami or something like that, it just came out in Japan. Screenshots you can find yourself.

You are right, holy shit that's a lot of enemies on screen at once.

Even so, a LOT of enemies on screen seems to be more common in Xbox 360 games than in PS2 games. Perfect Dark Zero, Call of Duty 2, and Kameo all toss overwhelming amounts of highly detailed, highly intelligent (except in Kameo's case), enemies at you at once. Just compare this:

http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/article/643/643614/ikusagami-20050819082458912.jpg

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/615/615674/kameo-elements-of-power-20050517092439614.jpg

The enemies in the Kameo shot are more detailed, with more fancy lighting effects going on. And that Kameo shot is old, and the actual game looks much better.