FFXI 360 a Disaster

[bapenguin]

IGN (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/674/674993p1.html) chronicles their expierence with the XBox 360 version of FFXI Beta in Japan. It's nothing short of a disaster and a waste of 5 gigs of hard drive space...yes...that's right...almost half of your hard drive space.

How does an hour long load process for FFXI sound? Not good? Well you're getting it! The Xbox 360 may be next generation and all, but based off the performance of the FFXI beta (and we'll remind you that it is an early version of the title -- there may be some improvements before the final), it's still pretty slow at copying data over from DVD to hard disk. FFXI takes up about five gigs of space on the hard disk, by the way, so you'll want to make sure that you've got enough space. The Japanese X360 has about 11 gigs left open in factory default state, which left me with an uncomfortable 6 gigs after FFXI had been installed.
So the graphics aren't really improved, the interface is identical, the online component actually seems split from Live instead of integrating with it. What the hell is Microsoft and Square thinking?

[Borys]

Well a beta is a beta for a reason.

Still you can easily imagine a scenario where 2 MMORPG games take up all your HD space.

MS *will* have to introduce a 100 GB disks soon.

[BleedTheFreak]

I played FFXI about 2 years back, I'm just sick to death of it. It brings back a lot of memories, some good some ... not. I already ready quite a long time ago that the 360 version wouldn't look any different, so that's not news. It's a pretty game, the environments are very nice looking, so it's not maybe a big deal.

The bigger deal is the great lengths this guy had to go to even to play. Though, this isn't unusual either, I had the PC version, and it literally took over 4 hours to update my game when I first installed it, and the methods he had to go through to sign in were exactly like it's always been as well.

I think it would have been much better to snag WoW on the 360, but I suppose Blizzard wasn't interested in that.

I don't think I'll ever play an MMO on my console, unless it's an action oriented one. Time will tell.

[Borys]

The PC-ization of consoles (installing, patches, updates etc.) is as bad as the consolization of PC games.

I already miss the old times of pre-PS2 games (SOCOM had patches on the PS2).

With the PS3 and 360 it will only get worse.

[DigitalFirefly]

Yeah, I tried the PC version when it first came out. It took me over 5 hours to install, patch and create an account, and it took up 4 or 5 gigs.

[Valkyrist]

The PC-ization of consoles (installing, patches, updates etc.) is as bad as the consolization of PC games.
Maybe I'm just getting old, but memory tells me that FFXI was out on PS2 BEFORE PC. That was the japan release, mind you. Here in the states it was the opposite.

Point being, this game was made to be a PC/Console hybrid from the very get-go. So there is no "consolization" going on here.

Anyhow, I don't know why they bothered porting it to 360 either. I still play FFXI and no one there gave a rat's ass about the 360 version. Nor did we notice any influx of new players. I agree with some of the above posters, that WoW would have been a wonderful port instead of FFXI. Hell, even GuildWars would've been fun on a console.

As far as the rediculous install times and large chunks of HD space used? Welcome to MMORPGs, please leave your free-time at the door -- thank you.

[King Drewsky]

Let's see 5 divided by 20 equals 25% but I guess we can't count on gaming journalists to grasp basic mathematic principles.

[kokyunage]

Let's see 5 divided by 20 equals 25% but I guess we can't count on gaming journalists to grasp basic mathematic principles.

Except that the FREE space you get on a Japanese xbox360 HD is 11 gigs. The americans get 13 gigs. Why? Because MS preloads it w/ OS, goodies, and the general HD space rapage (you know, buy a 100 gig harddrive but really 89 gigs of it is useable).

[bapenguin]

Let's see 5 divided by 20 equals 25% but I guess we can't count on gaming journalists to grasp basic mathematic principles.

Or ignorant posters for basic comprehension. :)

[Vandenh]

>So the graphics aren't really improved

Err.. I thought they were improved based on the PC version (so lightyears beyond PS2) and that the PC version is getting a special upgrade in the future.

The guys that tested this have not played a MMORPG before? They complain about everything. The only thing that really sucks is the PlayOnline crap interface. MS should NOT allow this kind of junk on Live... the price they have to pay to ass kiss Square I guess.

[Wraith]

As was mentioned, this is pretty much the way the game's always been. The author expected there to be big changes due to Xbox Live, and found there were none.

But really, on the PC, once you're installed and updated, login isn't that big a deal, even with PlayOnline. Password > Shortcut > Play > OK and you're in.

The thing he only mentions in passing is what I'd be more worried about: software keyboard. They've got to get some kind of hardware keyboard, whether it's a 360-specific peripheral or the ability to use any PC USB keyboard. (I know they mentioned before launch that they may allow using keyboards for text entry but not gameplay, on the 360.)

[KarmaGhost]

What we're seeing here is typical of the first generation (and sometimes second) of "Next Generation" titles; remakes, ports, "updates," etc. Hopefully, time'll sort it all out.

[Borys]

Let's see 5 divided by 20 equals 25% but I guess we can't count on gaming journalists to grasp basic mathematic principles.

Reading comprehension.

Learn it.

[bean19]

Fuck FF XI.

I will not play any console MMORPG that does not have integrated voice chat. I want to group up with my team and talk to them. . . not use funky pre-made bubble text or have to type out messages on my lap.

Besides, FF XI is an aging dinosaur of a game built for a previous generation. If the port can do PC level graphics for the title, then they should call it a win.

Still, an hour to install 5 Gigs from a DVD is pretty freaking slow. I think the mass produced HDs for the X360 are probably pretty much crap. My guess is that they'll have a new one on the market by the time good NEW MMOs come out for the X360. . . like Huxley.

[Borys]

And you think people will swallow those $100+ new disks? I think they won't.

[agentgray]

Or ignorant posters for basic comprehension. :)
I thought half the drive was taken up with junk already. So your statement was correct. :)

[RandomViolence]

I don't understand. How does this qualify as a disaster? The 360 sales I can see as pretty disapponting, but complaining about an hour to install and patch an MMO (sorry, an hour and 15 minutes), especially FFXI of all of them, seems pretty fucking whiny to me.

The only thing that sounded reasonable as far as complaints about a BETA piece of software was the use of PlayOnline. Why is that stone-age shit STILL around for a console MMO, and why the fuck is it sitting next to/on top of Xbox Live?

[bean19]

And you think people will swallow those $100+ new disks? I think they won't.

Well, the 20 Gig disk will let you play ONE MMO at a time, possibly two if they aren't all as incredibly big as FF (a lot of them are this big or even bigger), so a lot of people won't have any problem spending an hour installing and reinstalling between MMOs. Alot of us can't afford more than one monthly fee at a time.

Those who can will totally throw $100 at a new hard-drive. In fact, I bet X360 modders will sell them for more than that well in advance of Microsoft making anything. Also, they'll probably start shipping bigger ones with the Premium once it becomes cost effective to do so. . . or in oppossition of the PS3.

You know. . . why buy a PS3 when we have five times as many games, and now you can get a 360 with a 60 Gig Hard-drive at no extra cost? *cue the booth girls*

Keep in mind that it is going to take a while for there to be more than one decent MMO out for the system, and given what a pain in the butt it is to strip CDs for music, most of us will be using Media Center or an Ipod for music instead of the HD.

[swegamer]

A beta, in correct game development terms, is a feature complete game. As in nothing new will be added beside bug fixes.

That does not fare well with the current state of FFXI.

I am hoping they're using the term "beta" loosly - or things could go really bad, really fast.

[Chi-Town]

The thing he only mentions in passing is what I'd be more worried about: software keyboard. They've got to get some kind of hardware keyboard, whether it's a 360-specific peripheral or the ability to use any PC USB keyboard. (I know they mentioned before launch that they may allow using keyboards for text entry but not gameplay, on the 360.)

It supports USB keyboards.

[Sion]

Did you guys really expect a japanese company to update a MMO after they made it? Seriously

[nemyhlovecraft]

So, I take it none of the people on Evil Avatar or on IGN have actually played FFXI. So, let's just clear some things up. The game was originally created for PS2 and its HD add-on. To facilitate the fact that the PS2 doesn't have a persistant OS, all models, textures, movies, and sounds have been d/led to the HD for quick access. This model is reused in the PC version. Why wouldn't it be reused in the Xbox 360 version?? You can't just up and restructure an entire online environment that has been running for two years for one platform release. The percieved benefits of the Xbox 360 version of FFXI is that hopefully they will phase out the PS2 version and begin evolving the game graphically and computationally. This is the beauty of MMORPGs. They are persistent, they are evolving, and they have an indeterminate lifespan.

Also, I'm still not seeing the justification of the ridiculous price retail is charging for the Xbox 360, in terms of game library and percieved benefits of XBL. FFXI, when it comes stateside, may be a turning point for many, many PC and PS2 gamers when considering Xbox 360. As for the amount of HD space FFXI takes up, all I can guess is that you early adopters got duped. I bet that MS will be releasing a huge HD add-on within 6-8 months in conjunction with a 25-30% price drop on the actual consoles. As well, you will see many more developers using the HD during runtime for software. Just take a look at HL2 for Xbox. It uses the HD a great deal just to squeeze that extra bit of texture diversity and resolution out of four year old PC technology.

Sorry to rant, but I began coming to this site because I thought I saw a great deal of impartiality in coverage and opinion. Its disappointing that it has become such an Xbox fanboy site. Just because Square isn't making the next greatest WWII FPS doesn't mean that its worthy of flamebaiting.

[Stryfe01]

The game was total ass when it first released, and its total ass now. It took me just as long to get started from the Beta PS2 version, and the interface truly sucked. Sign into Playonline, then have to sign into the damn game...that's BS.

[Cha-Ka]

The very existance of FFXI on 360 shows how low MS is willing to sink to create the appearance of a balanced software library. This game was trivial when it came out. It remains trivial years later, and yet somehow I suspect there are gamers out there thinking "wow...FF on Xbox...way to go MS!".

Sheep!

[bapenguin]

Sorry to rant, but I began coming to this site because I thought I saw a great deal of impartiality in coverage and opinion. Its disappointing that it has become such an Xbox fanboy site. Just because Square isn't making the next greatest WWII FPS doesn't mean that its worthy of flamebaiting.

IGN (and myself) aren't just ranting on Square, but also MS. Right now the selling point of the 360 is it's Live interface. When the game completely and outright ignores it...whats the point of having it on XBox Live? Not only that, if they didn't touch the graphics at all....so much to the point the PS2 interface is still there instead of integrating it with the XBox interface....again...what's the point?

Microsoft shouldn't have backed down from this, they should have fought to have a nice tight integration. But I'm sure they just wanted to be able to use Final Fantasy in the name of a launch brochure.

Now you have two seperate entities and you take away what's the most powerful thing of Live...the universal buddy list and the ability to jump from game to game with your buddies with ease. Now you have to have a seperate list in the game and manage that too? Totally pointless, totally a waste of time, and of totally a waste of hard drive space.

[Wraith]

It supports USB keyboards.I wonder why the author wasn't using one, then. Masochist?

Sign into Playonline, then have to sign into the damn game...that's BS.It takes maybe 20 seconds before you're in-game (at least on the PC side). I admit it's slightly annoying but...it's not that big a deal when you sit down and play for a few hours at a time.

[Paranoia]

What the hell is Microsoft and Square thinking?[/i]

It's BETA, what do you expect?

[nemyhlovecraft]

Microsoft shouldn't have backed down from this, they should have fought to have a nice tight integration. But I'm sure they just wanted to be able to use Final Fantasy in the name of a launch brochure.

Now you have two seperate entities and you take away what's the most powerful thing of Live...the universal buddy list and the ability to jump from game to game with your buddies with ease. Now you have to have a seperate list in the game and manage that too? Totally pointless, totally a waste of time, and of totally a waste of hard drive space.

I think theres more at stake here than coming to agreements about having Square-Enix's software on MS. PlayOnline was a necessity because of the weak PS2 online support, and PC is a platform where this sort of separate network is just the name of the game (ie. Battle.NET). There are, I'm sure, legal issues and IP issues, as well as PS2 and PC software support issues, involved in trying to integrate a network that has been established as a Square-Enix asset for two years into a MS owned and operated network. I would hope that as the PS2 version fades out, that PlayOnline can become more and more a part of XBL, since I think it is a very strong networking environment.

I've been playing FFXI for like 8 months now and I have definately seen places where I think things could be better with PlayOnline and FFXI, but I laud Square for even trying this. PlayOnline's interface isn't the most amazing, but its tight. And considering the other companies that have established MMORPGs they are one of the smallest, and have one of the most consistent development teams on the project (consider Sony(SOE) with Everquest and SW:Galaxies - HUGE company, and pretty poor upkeep; Blizzard with WOW - Medium-sized company with a long established network, and great upkeep; Square-Enix is the smallest of these three, started a network from scratch, and has upkeep comparable to WOW). If Square-Enix can build tighter integration with XBL into PlayOnline, then I think we could see one of the strongest MMO engines blooming forth on XBL. If I were Blizzard, I would get developing now on an Xbox 360 version of WOW and integrating Blizzard.NET into XBL, if they aren't already. Console MMOs are a relatively untapped resource and building one into XBL has to be one of the smartest moves I could see going now. So, maybe the beta of FFXI isn't the most amazing yet, but it presents opportunities for both Square-Enix and Microsoft, and maybe the next Square-Enix MMO developed for PC and Xbox 360 tightly integrated with XBL (since MS claimed that the next gen of Windows will also be integrated with XBL) will be the main reason people pay Microsoft their hard-earned money.

[Stormwatcher]

Holly shit, I hope WOW never gets ported. I really do.

[jwbxx]

I played ff11 for a year. After playing it I concluded that it is garbage. I got sick of all mmorpgs because they basically all have the same fundamental principles. But ff11 seemed to fuck up those fundamental principles really well. Probably the best mmorpg that gets all those principles done well is WOW.

[Rommel]

This is not the fault of the XBox 360. FFXI was a disaster on the PS2 and the PC before it. I would expect the 360 version to be no different. Yes, it is true - you had to clear yourself a Sunday to install the game. Four CDs packed fuller than a Windows disc that needed to load and then be changed. Several inputs and hours of patching later and you finally were able to sign into the game.

And boy did the game suck. People often muse why WoW, little more than a refined and more friendly Everquest, is so loved. Play FFXI and you will see why WoW works so hard for you. FFXI worked against you.

[jwbxx]

This is not the fault of the XBox 360. FFXI was a disaster on the PS2 and the PC before it. I would expect the 360 version to be no different. Yes, it is true - you had to clear yourself a Sunday to install the game. Four CDs packed fuller than a Windows disc that needed to load and then be changed. Several inputs and hours of patching later and you finally were able to sign into the game.

And boy did the game suck. People often muse why WoW, little more than a refined and more friendly Everquest, is so loved. Play FFXI and you will see why WoW works so hard for you. FFXI worked against you.Preach!

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[jeffool]

What the hell is Microsoft and Square thinking?What the hell is we teaching our children? (I'm just saying, bap. I'm just saying.)

[Zeal]

Newsflash: People only play WoW now.

[bean19]

1. nemyhlovecraft - Really good points. I think you are probably correct. I'd like to add that in addition to the legal issues, Play Online is a universal character server, so integration seperately through Xbox Live would be very difficult (and yes, it is MUCH better than Play Online). Another part of this is money. Square may have justifiably been afraid that PS2 players would move to the X360 version and that they would get a smaller portion of the online fees if the Xbox Live service was used.

2. FF XI was a bad game because it was group dependent and was a huge grind. Compared to more recent MMOs it is not even close to competitive. However, it told it's stories (when you leveled enough to GET to them) better than any other MMO thus far. The cut scenes were excellent as characters moved and had facial expressions. They acted their well written roles. . . One of the best gaming moments I've ever had was doing the series of Star Onion Brigade quests. They were incredibly well written, funny, and adorable. . . and adorable is something that must be done perfectly for it not to make me want to kill the adorable NPC in a game. I'd love for a game with WoW's gameplay quality (before level 60 and the forced uber-guild-only endgame) and Final Fantasy's well written and well-told quests. . . Oh, and while I'm wishing, I'd like them to be voice acted brilliantly too.

Anyway, the point is that there are some really good things about FF XI. . . you know, back in the day. . . before it became another example of archaic MMOs where forced grouping and grinding were exceptable. Now, despite it's outstanding points, it's like an Ice Age human who failed to develop a thumbs, but instead developed strong hearing. . . The poor evolutionary throwback that was able to hear the stronger predators coming but unable to weild a spear to defend itself. Still, we shouldn't discount the good ears.

[amusedtoe]

Well duh, they made it pretty clear they weren't doing anything to overhaul the game for the 360.