With Gotham TV, is PGR3 a real spectator sport?

[rjcc]

HDBeat (http://www.hdbeat.com/) discusses Project Gotham Racing 3's "Gotham TV"." Here's a bit from the article. (http://www.hdbeat.com/2005/12/09/pgr3/)
Xbox 360 and Project Gotham Racing 3. By far the best combo for high definition sports no matter the day, no matter the time. In this version of Bizarre's racer, they unveiled a new feature called "Gotham TV" which automatically selects and broadcasts the highest ranked players racing live online. Ask yourself, if someone walked up to you right now and told you the best street racer in the world was racing his Ferarri F50 through NYC streets and taking on all comers, would you watch?
I've been addicted to Project Gotham since I got my 360 and have watched a lot of Gotham TV when not playing. I've seen a lot of nasty drivers do shady things to win and I've seen a lot of skilled, classy drivers make moves I didn't think were possible. For example, win with a slow car or let someone go ahead after accidentally hitting them.

[thecrazyd]

So, why is it called Project Gotham, anyway?

[Xaerin]

So, why is it called Project Gotham, anyway?

Yeah, and where's the BatMobile?

[Thumper]

I'm not too sure about spectator "sport"... However, it WOULD be interesting to know how many people tune in to these races.

As for the name... wasn't it a working title that they just stuck with? Thats what it sounds like at least.

[Heretic Machine]

I don't know... I'm still very much of the opinon that watching other people play games is stupid, whether it be the Superbowl, or Halo.

[wudi]

The only way I would watch someone else play any kind of game is if I knew that their skill, talent, etc. was above and beyond what I myself. I'm no Peyton Manning, and I probably couldn't pull off most of the stuff that gets shown at PG TV, so it's worth it in that sense just to see what is possible at the highest levels of the game, whatever the game may be.

[saneman]

Why'd they lose the Metropolis Street Racer (or whatever MSR stood for) name anyway? Was that a Sega exclusive thing?

edit: just looked around and it looks like it mighta been published by Sega, so I guess that is why.

[Deadend]

I think Project Gotham was a pun. As Metropolis was Super-man's city. What's next? That city the Flash is in? Or better yet... Project X-racer!

[KamaItachi]

Why'd they lose the Metropolis Street Racer (or whatever MSR stood for) name anyway? Was that a Sega exclusive thing?

edit: just looked around and it looks like it mighta been published by Sega, so I guess that is why.


Yup, sega still own the rights to it from the Dreamcast days. Pity as I actually prefer MSR to PGR.

[bean19]

I like watching video clips of people playing games and doing amazing stuff. . . like the clips of the guys who blew the warthog way way way up into the air in Halo, or the guy who can beat Half-Life in like 30 minutes. That was amazing. :)

Also, when I was playing Team Fortress Classic back in high school, we used to watch other clans play on maps that were new to us to both scout out their strategy and learn our own.

Can't say that I'd ever watch this, but then I'm not a fan of spectator sports in real life either.

[Thumper]

The only way I would watch someone else play any kind of game is if I knew that their skill, talent, etc. was above and beyond what I myself. I'm no Peyton Manning, and I probably couldn't pull off most of the stuff that gets shown at PG TV, so it's worth it in that sense just to see what is possible at the highest levels of the game, whatever the game may be.

Exactly, if these people can play the game at an absolutely ridiculous level, I'd readily watch them if I was interested in this game. Why do you think people download videos of elite counter-strike clans, or why a video of a WoW pvp rank 14 player gets THOUSANDS of downloads per day? If I had a chance to watch the top players in a game I played competing in real time; I would jump at the chance.

Once this thing gets a bit of a following the best players are going to start publicly challenging each other. I think it could get pretty intense.

[*Legion*]

It's a neat feature that you don't HAVE to use. But don't let that stop anyone from bitching like a baby!

There are times where I'd like to have this feature available in a game. Like, in football leagues, it would be neat to watch some of the other peoples' games.

[Mac]

I don't know... I'm still very much of the opinon that watching other people play games is stupid, whether it be the Superbowl, or Halo.

Whoa..uh..what? I'm a sports journalist, so obviously my opinion differs greatly as sports are my life, but how can you say it's stupid?

[bapenguin]

I dig Gotham TV...I watch it every now and then. It's a nice feature to have.

[Deadend]

I wonder if they are going to make a patch so someone can play announcer? OR just have various voice channels for the current match.

[mkelehan]

For example, win with a slow car or let someone go ahead after accidentally hitting them.

As a Burnout player, that concept blows my mind.

[Achilles]

I dig Gotham TV...I watch it every now and then. It's a nice feature to have.The most interesting part for me with Gotham TV is to read the profiles of the guys in the race to find out what else they play. You'd figure there would be overlap between it and other racing games, but last I checked there were a lot of PDZ and Quake 4 people up there, but not a lot that play other racing games. Demographic research is fascinating to me.

[rjcc]

The most interesting part for me with Gotham TV is to read the profiles of the guys in the race to find out what else they play. You'd figure there would be overlap between it and other racing games, but last I checked there were a lot of PDZ and Quake 4 people up there, but not a lot that play other racing games. Demographic research is fascinating to me.

The thing is there aren't really any other racing games for the hardcore. A lot of those guys at the top of the ranking were driving on Forza and on Rallisport 2 before that, and will probably be be on Test Drive when that comes out, but they're not really interested in Ridge Racer or NFS:MW

[Achilles]

The thing is there aren't really any other racing games for the hardcore. A lot of those guys at the top of the ranking were driving on Forza and on Rallisport 2 before that, and will probably be be on Test Drive when that comes out, but they're not really interested in Ridge Racer or NFS:MWThat's interresting. I'm not up on the hardcore racing scene. I bet in the same way as PGR might overlap more with Forza, NFS could overlap more with Burnout, since that's the racing demographic I'm in.

Honestly anyone looking to make a game in a certain genre could really use the achievement system and game rankings to collect a lot of data on what their market is, and what stopped people from playing through the single player portion of games. If most people didn’t get past a certain boss and then stopped playing, that’s really important info. The fact that it works even in single player to gather information is extremely useful.

[LiquidRain]

Honestly anyone looking to make a game in a certain genre could really use the achievement system and game rankings to collect a lot of data on what their market is...

I never thought of it that way. Another way for Microsoft to make money: selling demographics. "The people who bought your game also bought..." Well, at least it seems to be a popular feature among the crowd. And don't forget! They also know how old you are, what region you live in, are you male/female, and plenty of other wonderful details that you dutifully handed over when you gave them your credit card number. :)

Well played, Microsoft.... well played...

[Slacker]

So, why is it called Project Gotham, anyway?
One of New York's nicknames is Gotham City and that was the new city that they were adding to the game. So the codename for the project became Gotham. A name hadn't been decided when it was first shown to the public so they titled it Project: Gotham. Eventually the name stuck and they changed it to Project Gotham Racing.

[Tinderbox]

One of New York's nicknames is Gotham City and that was the new city that they were adding to the game. So the codename for the project became Gotham. A name hadn't been decided when it was first shown to the public so they titled it Project: Gotham. Eventually the name stuck and they changed it to Project Gotham Racing.

This is actually pretty much how it happened. Code name became reality.

(worked on PGR 2)

[Magnanimous Gnome]

It's a neat feature that you don't HAVE to use. But don't let that stop anyone from bitching like a baby!

I always love posts like this. No one was bitching - but don't let that stop you from bitching like a baby about non-existant bitching!

That said, I don't really understand the hubbub that this "feature" has gotten. Many PC games have had spectator modes for years, and you can even *gasp* record games and rewatch them. Is it just because this hasn't been seen on consoles much before? I just can't imagine sitting there and watching someone else play online - it's boring enough watching friends play, let alone some stranger.

[novicius]

I've seen a lot of skilled, classy drivers make moves I didn't think were possible. For example, win with a slow car or let someone go ahead after accidentally hitting them. Hey, have you been watching me race?! :D

Just working on some Online Career races this morning -- nothing like rolling out my Shelby Cobra GT500 in a sea of Ferrari F355 F1's. :rolleyes:

Here's a hint: the race is won and lost in the corners... :cool:

[rjcc]

I always love posts like this. No one was bitching - but don't let that stop you from bitching like a baby about non-existant bitching!

That said, I don't really understand the hubbub that this "feature" has gotten. Many PC games have had spectator modes for years, and you can even *gasp* record games and rewatch them. Is it just because this hasn't been seen on consoles much before? I just can't imagine sitting there and watching someone else play online - it's boring enough watching friends play, let alone some stranger.

If you had read the piece you'd have seen it noted that some pc games have had this feature or had it added through mods, but not on consoles.

You'd also have noticed some of the reasons why it is interesting to watch online, but, feel free to make judgements based on the subject line.

[rjcc]

Hey, have you been watching me race?! :D

Just working on some Online Career races this morning -- nothing like rolling out my Shelby Cobra GT500 in a sea of Ferrari F355 F1's. :rolleyes:

Here's a hint: the race is won and lost in the corners... :cool:

Yup, you can win races with the Shelby, the problem is avoiding being spun by idiots, and it's hard to countersteer in the mustang. I use the F355 myself but I respect cats who use the shelby, and I usually roll the shelby when I'm playing with friends.

I like seeing somebody takes a CCR or Lambo or McLaren and defeat a whole pack of a class F50's.

[novicius]

Absolutely, that's why I usually drop back at the start -- hug the inside wall and not accelerate as fast. The herd of Italian Stallions will lunge past me only to invariably crash at the first corner; I motor past, get some good separation on 1/2 the idiots, and then can work on the top three or four guys that get through.

The dive-bombing technique used by the masses is predictable at least. I did have a battle on my hands this morning (Saleen S281E vs. TVR Sagaris): the other driver was a good guy and was surprised by my lack of dive-bombing technique. As I stayed glued to his tail waiting for a geniune opportunity (as opposed to forcing one), he abruptly pulled to the side and coasted down alongside me. Without a word we had an impromptu drag, went two-wide through the first corner, I slid wide as the Saleen is wont to do and he then took the lead in a proper fashion. But he made a mistake further down the line, I passed him and took the win.

Friend List requests were exchanged. ;)

[Magnanimous Gnome]

feel free to make judgements based on the subject line.

Thanks, I'll do that. :cool:

[BigJonno]

I never thought of it that way. Another way for Microsoft to make money: selling demographics. "The people who bought your game also bought..."

It's even better than that. "The people who PLAYED your game also played..." With the Gamerscore thing, they can see how many people actually played the game all the way through, how many went back and unlocked all the features, how many just gave up after a certain point. Sales figures are all well and good, but remember how many people took back Final Fantasy 7 after it was hyped out of all proportion by the games media at the time. Now we can say "Game A sold twice as many copies as game B, but only 27% of those copies have been completed, compared to 73% of game B."

[Mac]

Thanks, I'll do that. :cool:

That doesn't make your comment anymore justified, as he has a point referring to your former post.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

It's even better than that. "The people who PLAYED your game also played..." With the Gamerscore thing, they can see how many people actually played the game all the way through, how many went back and unlocked all the features, how many just gave up after a certain point. Sales figures are all well and good, but remember how many people took back Final Fantasy 7 after it was hyped out of all proportion by the games media at the time. Now we can say "Game A sold twice as many copies as game B, but only 27% of those copies have been completed, compared to 73% of game B."


While I'm not quite sure yet what that type of information could be used for, I have no doubt that MS will sell it to some developers, who will then use it in some way, either good or bad.

I realize what I just said is rather obvious, but I'm trying to wrap my head around what the end result of this type of very precise data collection could be.

"Xbox 360: The only system that lets the whole world know just how many times you got your groove on with a member of the same sex in Fable 2!"

[mkelehan]

But - this is important - no company gives a rip if you complete it or not. As long as you buy it, they couldn't care less if you ever play it.

[Achilles]

I realize what I just said is rather obvious, but I'm trying to wrap my head around what the end result of this type of very precise data collection could be.

"Xbox 360: The only system that lets the whole world know just how many times you got your groove on with a member of the same sex in Fable 2!"The data is useful for a couple reasons:

People who play all the way through your game and then start unlocking extras after they’ve beaten it really like your game and will come back for the sequels. Whereas people who play the first two missions and then never play it again probably won't buy a sequel because, even if they keep it, they didn't feel like they got their moneys worth from the first one.

They tell you what kind of extras people like to unlock, so you can put more of those in the game. Do people find outfits a bigger incentive than gold medals or new multiplayer maps? That kind of thing.

They tell you if people get hung up at certain points in the game, and if it’s enough to make them put the game down. If it is than it’ll hurt broad appeal, and there will be a certain percentage of those people who take the game back. Games where people never get past the second mission don’t spread sales through word of mouth either.

You can tell what features people really liked and which ones they didn’t use at all, so you can better spend your time on making ones that they like, or you can refine ones that they didn’t. The co-op in Kameo is a good example. Every co-op mission is flagged as an achievement. If everyone has one co-op mission, but only one, than that area clearly needs refinement or to be scrapped and the time better spent elsewhere. If most people have all the co-op missions completed than people really like that feature and they should make it more prominent in the sequel.

Basically there’s no evil use for this information. At worst it’ll be ignored by developers, at best they’ll use it to give people a better play experience. And MS doesn’t need to sell it, it’s on every one of your gamer tags (MS also refuses to sell demographic information I believe, as well as give your addresses and emails to 3rd parties and other game publishers. That’s why to play an EA game online you need to sign a special agreement that turns the information over to them.)

Achievements also encourage people to play in different ways, or try out features such as multiplayer. Most Quake 4 playing PGR players that I looked at had all of the “completed level with just a shotgun” type achievements. The only reason you’d unlock that is if you knew about it and decided to.

I didn’t think a lot of the achievement system back before the system came out but in practice it’s brilliant. Not sure if they thought about all this when they were putting it in, or if they just thought it would be cool to see what your friends were playing.

Oh and lastly, if you know which markets overlap you can better advertise for other games. Say, if Forza and PGR overlap, you could include a Forza demo with PGR or send everyone who played PGR3 a Forza demo in the mail. For other games such as fighting games it could let you know that cross-over characters between the two series might be a good idea.

[Sl1pstream]

But - this is important - no company gives a rip if you complete it or not. As long as you buy it, they couldn't care less if you ever play it.

If you hated the game, you probably wouldn't take the time to finish it. If you didn't finish the game, would you buy the sequel?

[TKO]

But - this is important - no company gives a rip if you complete it or not. As long as you buy it, they couldn't care less if you ever play it.
Unless, of course, they are considering working on a sequel ..you remember those? Sequels? Those things the games industry lives on? :)

[Mr_Snuffle]

A few titles have alreadt tried this, but the thing is that no one really cares.