Next-Gen.biz: Japan Uninterested in Xbox 360

[Borys]

From EvilAvatar.com's favourite (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7830) news (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7827) source - Next-Gen.biz (http://www.next-gen.biz) comes this (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1814&Itemid=2) story about Xbox 360's chances in Japan.

On the eve of Xbox 360's Japanese launch, leading analysts in the country are all but writing off Microsoft's chances of seriously challenging Sony, or even of launching a successful platform.

Nobuyuki Kawamata of Tokai Tokyo Research Center said, "No one -- consumers or software makers -- has been talking about the Xbox 360 lately, although we only have a couple of days before the release. Given also the fact that basic functions of Xbox 360 are inferior to Sony's next-generation machine, and that there are not many newly-developed titles ready for the Japanese launch, Xbox 360 is not likely to become a must-buy console here in Japan."
While I cannot be saddened by this analysis I also simply cannot understand why the general US public, media and especially fanboys is concerned in one console's (be it 360 or PS3 or GCN, whatever) success or failure over in Japan.

[Borys]

I mean I'm in Europe and I really don't care how things sell in the US or Japan or Australia etc. I'm interested how things fare in Germany, UK, France etc.

Why is Japanese market so important to being researched and analyzed over and over again with each console release?

Maybe I'm just ignorant?

[GrinR]

I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't simply launch a new brand over there. It's obvious that there is a critical marketing problem for them there. Start fresh! Call it the Tokugawa 360 and give Square a billion dollars to make Final Fantasy XIXIII on it - INSTANT VICTORY!

[doubtingthomas]

I'd have to agree. I couldn't care less what types of videogames a people on the other side of the earth like to play, or what console they like to play them on.

[markster3000]

Well, the japanese market is where the modern console revolution started.

To modern hardcore gamers, saying that Japan is unimportant is like telling a muslim that Mecca is just some city.

Anyhow, with a support base in Japan, MS would start to get more 'eccentric' games, something the current X-box is certainly lacking in. One can only play racing games and FPSs so much.

the big question I ask, is what would happen if, say, MS were to sweet-talk SquareEnix into exclusivity for FF13 and DQ9? Would Japan suddenly see merit in the 360? Or is there a more deep-rooted Sony-fanboyism at work?

[bapenguin]

What's funny is IGN just came out with this article (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/674/674175p1.html). Sounds like the developers are liking the 360...but the consumers aren't.

[dudemarky]

Well, success in Japan matters because it spells good software support from the likes of Capcom, Square-Enix, Konami, etc. For example, one of the best games this year, Resident Evil 4, didn't even come out for Xbox.

[Abednigo]

I'm in the US and I don't even care how my favorite console sells here, let alone in some other country.

It definitely is a fanboy thing. They want their console of choice to be #1 in the world so they can start running around saying their console is king of the world or some crap.

[Dirty Harry]

Hey Another Way To Look At This Submitter Is That Sony Is A Foreign Company And We Have Major Fanboys In A Country That Isnt Their Home Country. Explain That?

[Xaerin]

While I cannot be saddened by this analysis I also simply cannot understand why the general US public, media and especially fanboys is concerned in one console's (be it 360 or PS3 or GCN, whatever) success or failure over in Japan.

You say it like these are two contrasting ideas when there is actually a pretty clear theme of apathy toward japanese opinion. Japan, need I remind you, being the birthplace of the home video game system and where all the best RPGs and frankly some the best games, full stop, are made.

So getting some developer support from these guys would be pretty helpfull to the consoles overall success. Not just in Japan but globally, when the games get translated.

[TrackZero]

Well, this is quite contradictory to the recent posts about the 360 in Japan (which showed a massive turnaround in interest), so I think I'll wait until we actually see sales data before even discussing this further. Otherwise it's all speculation.

[The Continental]

"While I cannot be saddened by this analysis I also simply cannot understand why the general US public, media and especially fanboys is concerned in one console's (be it 360 or PS3 or GCN, whatever) success or failure over in Japan."

Short answer: Because Japanese developers, many of whom are still staples of the console owner's diet, develop first and foremost for Japanese gamers, thus they choose the consoles with the most market penetration in Japan, ie Square/Konami/Capcom develop their big franchises for the PS2. If you as a console gamer are content with the lastest iterations of Halo, EA Sports Franchise X, and the odd third party developer title here and there, than you have no reason to care about this. If however you ever want to play anything from any of the developers mentioned above, you'll either need to get the favored Japanese console (PlayStation) or wait a potentially long time for a trickle down port in the off chance that said franchise isn't a PS exclusive as much of them are.

I personally don't care, I'm a PC gamer :)

[Heretic Machine]

Ya, I can't believe how inferior the 360 is to the PS3. I mean, the other day I was just playing a new Ratchet and Clank game on my PS3, and the graphics were teh uber...

Oh wait, I don't have a PS3, neither does anyone else, including Sony.

If you as a console gamer are content with the lastest iterations of Halo, EA Sports Franchise X, and the odd third party developer title here and there, than you have no reason to care about this.

Or if you are no longer impressed enough by glorified CG movies to pay for them at $50 a pop.

[Borys]

Look, you all make valid points but consider this:

Xbox failed miserably in Japan. 100 units sold weekly (or monthly?) vs 8.000 of PS2s sold in the same time-frame. (numbers from my weak memory but you get the idea)

Did that stop Xbox from being #2 console in the world?
Nope.
Did that stop Xbox from selling 15 to 17M units in the US and 3M to 5M units in Europe?
Nope.

Will Japan decide 360's worldwide success or failure?
I'm 100% certain that it won't so why bother with analysis, launch parties and marketing at all?

[Evil_SPanKY]

Move along folks, nothing to see here....

[disc]

Pride.

On both sides.

[SymetriX]

Usually to win the console wars you have to shore up Japan.

I'm not sure if that will be the case this time though. I mean, on a whole I'm sure the PS3 will have more units, but I think there's a case that the 360 could be a much stronger #2 this time, or that the two could even switch leads from time to time.

But, at the end of the day, even though MS is betting on online, it's all about the games, and that tide seems to be only marginally better for MS this time.

What I'd really like to see is the Revolution come out with some truely unique software to take advantage of that controller, and combined with that and a low price point come in and take out both Sony and MS!

Granted, they'd never win over people with the big cross-platform titles, but if it's cheaper they could match Sony/MS in terms of # of consoles sold.

[disc]

Btw, regarding the IGN-article.

A bunch of developers who made a game for the Xbox 360 would not speak up for it?

[TrackZero]

Pride.

On both sides.

Exactly. Whatever happens will happen, if one of these consoles gains dominance, then all the developers will flock to it, that simple. But an announcement like this should come as no surprise, of course someone from the Tokyo Research Center will support their native corporation, I'd really be surprised if they were to make a statement supporting the 360.

Where the consumers will go is always another matter. Only times going to tell.

[AspectVoid]

I understand why support from Japan is important. As its been said, a lot of console developers are still Japanese companies, and they throw the majority of their support behind whatever console is king of the hill there. That means Japan is important in order to get the big name developers to make exclusives for your console.

In all honesty, though, I'm starting to think that this will be the last generation where Japan is a major player. I've read a number of articles that have shown that gaming is on the decline in Japan, though I think a lot of that has to do with the massive pre-owned market there. Its easy to find shops in Japan that carry games and consoles from every generation. That keeps the market saturation rather high.

[Dracula-X]

I think the real battle in Japan will be between 360 and the Rev for the #2 spot, assuming that the 360 fares a bit better this time around (and I'm of the opinion so far that it will, with the increased japanese developer support).

[bapenguin]

Japan, need I remind you, being the birthplace of the home video game system ....

::COUGH:: ATARI ::COUGH:: Intellivision

[Mason]

Eh, Microsoft's been dumping a lot into US marketing, Sony's no doubt been keeping the PS3 hyped in the motherland. I'd be surprised if there weren't a cultural divide on this issue. The only thing I find odd is that Sony's recent major blunders haven't cost them more standing.

Also, note the fact that many of the 360's advantages (connectivity and online services, access to media and smaller games) are fundamentally PC-like, and they sit really well with America's broad audience of former and current PC gamers. PC gaming in Japan seems to take a back-seat to consoles, so they have less familiarity with and demand for the things the 360 does well. Which is a shame, because there are many creative Japanese developers who could do great things with Live Arcade. If Nippon Ichi got into it...

And as near as I can tell, a PS3 with no connectivity yet media capable of playing hours of HD FMV cutscenes is exactly what Japanese gamers want. That could easily be a false impression, but on the face of it that sure seems to be something that they care about.

[Deadend]

Kawamata sounds like a fanboi. Calling the x360 inferior in basic functions to the PS3, either he has some major inside information or is a raving fanboi, or he is taking money.

Really, I don't care if a system succeds in japan, every year they seem to get more lemming like over there. all they seem to care about it Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior. Japan is slowly and surely being made irrelevant in the game world. Games just do not sell that well in Japan on average as games are over-priced. In extra short - japan sucks.

[doubtingthomas]

I'm not going to dispute that Japanese developer support could be seen to some as important, it is, but who really gives a shit what the average Japanese household has as their gaming console?

[Borys]

Kinda off topic but here's a MGS4 TGS real-time, subtitled presentation.

http://www.gamesmediamirror.com/leech_2074_1_en.html

It's new but old (from TGS) so I don't know whether to submit it or not.

Some very, very cool effects - check out the Otacon LCD part and number of polys in Snake's hair.

[Cubfan]

Well, success in Japan matters because it spells good software support from the likes of Capcom, Square-Enix, Konami, etc. For example, one of the best games this year, Resident Evil 4, didn't even come out for Xbox.

But Resident Evil 5 will be released on the 360. Which says that while success in Japan would definitely help Microsoft secure support from some Japanese developers, ultimately these developers need to make money. If the 360 gains a large share of the overall market, they won't have a choice but to support the 360, even if it fails miserably in Japan.

[51|RandoM]

It is called market share, in a global economy.

He who puts his console in the most homes, wins. Xbox and gamecube are both better hardware than the ps2... but the ps2 has the biggest numbers.

The Japanese won't care about the 360 until they see some of their favorite games appearing on it exclusively. Are any japanese developers ready to tweak their nose at Sony and produce a AAA exclusive for 360? I doubt it.

If you like your console, and expect to see a large library of quality titles, you should hope that it succeeds in Japan...

[51|RandoM]

If the 360 gains a large share of the overall market, they won't have a choice but to support the 360, even if it fails miserably in Japan.

...look at your sentence and read it again. Failing in Japan is a really good way to guarantee that you DO NOT gain a large share of the overall market.

It is a chicken and egg scenario, and microsoft needs to bend over backwards to get significant Japanese developer support, not just hope they sell a bunch of consoles and the developers then fall in line. Heck, just look at how long it takes to produce a major title nowadays.

[see colon]

japan is about 25% of the home console market globaly. had xbox not faultered there it might have stood a better chance of being dominent platform. or at least getting some solid RPGs to round out it's library.

the more markets your console has control, the more developers will look at it. that means more games, more choices, and more fun. at least in theory.

[Zawath]

Kinda off topic but here's a MGS4 TGS real-time, subtitled presentation.

http://www.gamesmediamirror.com/leech_2074_1_en.html

It's new but old (from TGS) so I don't know whether to submit it or not.

Some very, very cool effects - check out the Otacon LCD part and number of polys in Snake's hair.

It might be realtime but not gameplay and that's what it matters. I bet Xbox 360 could run the same demo just fine.

[Alexious]

So... do the Japanese just NEVER play games online or what?

Everybody knows that the 360s biggest advantage is Live. Doesn't that interest the Japanese public? I mean why by a PS3 when you'll be stuck at home playing on 1 TV with 4 of your friends... you know, like I did 10 YEARS AGO!

[Deadend]

Where did they find a PS3 to run the demo?

[doyama]

You have to remember that Japan accounts for a huge amount of the world wide market for games. Let's look at the PS2 sales. When the PS2 hit 100 million consoles recently, it had sold 22 million to Japan. That's almost 1/4th of the market. If 1/4th of your market is 'uninsterested' in your console it is a huge deal!

Looking at the Xbox sales world wide in Jan 2005 it has sold about 20 million total. 13 million in North America, 5 million in Europe and 2 million in Japan. You can see why Japan is a critical market for the Xbox360. A Japanese developer is not going to be inclined to spend money on developing a game if so few people have Xboxes. Its critical to have as many game developers as possible making games for your console in teh hope that one of them will produce that 'must have' title to propel your console. Also more games means more selection and the 'impression' of better success in the market place.

Analysts are keenly watching what happens in Japan, because no matter how well it does in North America, the xbox360 will be a flop if it dies in Japan.

[RMan]

In all honesty, though, I'm starting to think that this will be the last generation where Japan is a major player. I've read a number of articles that have shown that gaming is on the decline in Japan, though I think a lot of that has to do with the massive pre-owned market there.
Well, I think that the Japanese culture embraced games more than us, and they’re just a few years ahead of us in this respect. If things remained the same, I think you’d see the same results here, just a few years down the line. Luckily, between a focus of online delivery and to a lesser degree the possible change introduced by that other system I won’t mention :) I think we’ll see enough change in the market to make things seem fresh again and the market will bounce back. I think in many ways it’s like crop rotation, without changes in what’s being produced the returns will slowly diminish.

[Dracula-X]

Kinda off topic but here's a MGS4 TGS real-time, subtitled presentation.

http://www.gamesmediamirror.com/leech_2074_1_en.html

It's new but old (from TGS) so I don't know whether to submit it or not.

Some very, very cool effects - check out the Otacon LCD part and number of polys in Snake's hair.
Thanks for the link, I've been wanting to see this in action.

[Dracula-X]

Where did they find a PS3 to run the demo?
Developers have had some version or another of the PS3 hardware for quite some time.

[Schnoogs]

I'm sure Japan interests is being heavily influenced by that fact the 360 is a US product.

Gee I only thought americans were close minded.

[Conner Dain]

Wouldn't it be just hilarious if *** released the 360 in Japan and it just sat on the shelves?

[Kelegacy]

I very much care if my system does well in Japan. If it doesn't, that means less Japanese developers will support my console, which is HUGE for me. That's why the PS2 is my current favorite console...the Japanese support.

[51|RandoM]

It might be realtime but not gameplay and that's what it matters. I bet Xbox 360 could run the same demo just fine.

Considering that it is a ps3 exclusive, that would be an interesting trick. :-)

[51|RandoM]

So... do the Japanese just NEVER play games online or what?

Everybody knows that the 360s biggest advantage is Live. Doesn't that interest the Japanese public? I mean why by a PS3 when you'll be stuck at home playing on 1 TV with 4 of your friends... you know, like I did 10 YEARS AGO!

You don't need Live for online play, you do realize, right? Live is a great implementation, but it isn't the only way.

[pomeroy]

Considering that it is a ps3 exclusive, that would be an interesting trick. :-)

HA HA! SEMANTICS ARE FUNNY! (no they really really aren't)

[Phades]

Eh, Microsoft's been dumping a lot into US marketing, Sony's no doubt been keeping the PS3 hyped in the motherland. I'd be surprised if there weren't a cultural divide on this issue. The only thing I find odd is that Sony's recent major blunders haven't cost them more standing.

Also, note the fact that many of the 360's advantages (connectivity and online services, access to media and smaller games) are fundamentally PC-like, and they sit really well with America's broad audience of former and current PC gamers. PC gaming in Japan seems to take a back-seat to consoles, so they have less familiarity with and demand for the things the 360 does well. Which is a shame, because there are many creative Japanese developers who could do great things with Live Arcade. If Nippon Ichi got into it...

And as near as I can tell, a PS3 with no connectivity yet media capable of playing hours of HD FMV cutscenes is exactly what Japanese gamers want. That could easily be a false impression, but on the face of it that sure seems to be something that they care about.

Nippon Ichi releasing games over Xbox Live would be beyond awesome. Since they're not exactly known for graphics, I think they may suffer in the next gen when their games (which I love) look even more dated graphically. Live would be a perfect remedy for this since they wouldn't be directly competing with retail games.

Yet again I hope that Sony surprises everyone and releases a cool online service similar to Live. I have little doubt that the PS3 will dominate again and really want that idea (Live's marketplace) to thrive regardless of who owns it.

[Citizen Philip]

I believe the big deal is the relative install base: There are more gamers in Japan then anywhere else? I don't know that specifically. If gaming is considered a "fine social activity for children" by society, parents do not have a problem buying a console system for their child.



Parents buying expensive consoles or not buying expensive consoles may be an important hurdle in console marketshare.

Meh I dunno.

[Cubfan]

...look at your sentence and read it again. Failing in Japan is a really good way to guarantee that you DO NOT gain a large share of the overall market.

It is a chicken and egg scenario, and microsoft needs to bend over backwards to get significant Japanese developer support, not just hope they sell a bunch of consoles and the developers then fall in line. Heck, just look at how long it takes to produce a major title nowadays.

Yes, but the Japanese share of the market is decreasing in light of the growth in gaming in Europe and the U.S, and while I agree that you can't be the overall market leader without selling a significant number of consoles in Japan, you can still have a very large piece of the pie by winning (or having a significant share of) the Western markets. In which case, even at second or third in the Japanse market, Japanese devs would have to acknowledge and develop for your console as ignoring such a large market would not be smart financially.

[bapenguin]

I believe the big deal is the relative install base: There are more gamers in Japan then anywhere else?

I don't think so...if you just look at the PS2 North America was almost 50% of the number sold.

I think Japan (and I'm just guessing here) probably is bigger in the cell phone and hand held gaming market.

[Dracula-X]

Japan got 20 million or so PS2s, and North America got about 40 million. The significance is that Japan has roughly less than half the NA population. So given the ratio, I'd say yes, there are probably more gamers there as it stands.

[bapenguin]

Kinda off topic but here's a MGS4 TGS real-time, subtitled presentation.

http://www.gamesmediamirror.com/leech_2074_1_en.html

It's new but old (from TGS) so I don't know whether to submit it or not.

Some very, very cool effects - check out the Otacon LCD part and number of polys in Snake's hair.

That's pretty cool...looks good. I'm just not a MGS fan....

[Zeal]

Japan is becoming increasingly irrelevant to the game industry.

Let them play their pedo-sims.

[bapenguin]

Japan got 20 million or so PS2s, and North America got about 40 million. The significance is that Japan has roughly less than half the NA population. So given the ratio, I'd say yes, there are probably more gamers there as it stands.

No...there's not more gamers...there's a higher gamer RATIO...though with the numbers you used...they would be equal.

[jwbxx]

Japan is nintendo and sony territory. It is almost impossible to take market share away from them both, When those two companies are so heavily invested in there.

[Dracula-X]

No...there's not more gamers...there's a higher gamer RATIO...though with the numbers you used...they would be equal.
Perhaps I should have worded it better, but when I mentioned ratio, I did mean higher ratio of gamers. :) Close to half but I think it favors them, NA has 280+ million or so population, and they've got about 128 million.

[Citizen Philip]

Perhaps the higher ratio is the factor here? Maybe the higher ratio fosters a more impressive gaming culture: more impressive from a vendor's point of view. Not only is gaming more acceptable, but people who buy consoles also tend to buy more hand-helds, more accesories, etc. The average Japanese Gamer may purchase more gaming related products, which, as the bottom line demonstrates, is very relevent.

I have been under the impression Japan is rather short on landmass. Would it be reasonable to assume that the higher ratio in a urban environment is going to create a complex gaming culture, and thus, more revenue?

[KamaItachi]

It might be realtime but not gameplay and that's what it matters. I bet Xbox 360 could run the same demo just fine.

Kojima has said that the 360 is perfectly capable of running it.

[Royal Fool]

Japan is becoming increasingly irrelevant to the game industry.

Let them play their pedo-sims.

I'll leave you alone in your ignorant fantasy world.

[Exodus]

News flash, japanese people like their games full of cute anime females in tight clothing wielding dual wield blades with big tits and impossible figures you'd like to...
okay anyways, look at lineage 2, any anime, recreate that into an rpg, so let's see, take every theme in final fantasy 6, re-make that but with american people, update the graphics, make it online to play with friends, package, send to japan, 360 will sell like hot cakes.

american people.. who am I kidding most japanese anime they're white people lol

[Steele Johnson]

News articles like this are only to spread negativity. Just like most media outlets.

How about this "300,000 xbox 360's sold in 10 days, and marketing experts predict that there are at least a million more gamers waiting for one".

[bjornbarspingvinen]

aren´t the japanese a bit , let´s say... unopen to non-japanese products?
A non-japanese console will never be succesful in Japan.