Nintendo Honorably Bows Out?

[Alexton]

There's an article on About.com (http://nintendo.about.com/od/editorials/a/nintendobowing.htm) discussing Nintendo's strategy on the Revolution. Considering IGN's recent updates on how powerful the Revolution is going to be, it certainly looks like Nintendo is attempting to be non-competitive; they're not taking on Sony and Microsoft in the home console market directly. Is Nintendo bowing out of the home console market in favor of a more friendly industry?

Nintendo looks to be introducing a system that compares to Sony and Microsoft's consoles about as well as a Game and Watch system compares to the original Game Boy. People just didn't see them on the same level.

[thecrazyd]

So, we are accepting flames as front page news now?

[LarsenNET]

Yeah, whatever...regardless of the hardware they make some of the best games on any console. Hardware means crap if you don't have great games to play.

[Montgomery_Python]

Horse

Shit

Thesis.

[Nite_Moogle]

The Game Boy was also vastly technically inferior to every other handheld that challenged it. That sure tanked out for Nintendo, didn't it?

[aversion2k]

I cant remember who, but someone on this forum said this was nintendos stratagy and got flamed for it.

Someone owes someone an apology :P

[Captain Awesome]

What a lameass generalized written piece of crap :p

These kind of articles are like clockwork every year when a new console race is starting.

Nice effort atleast, I guess ;)

[SynapseLapse]

*shrug* How is this any different from the gamecube? When I want to be impressed by really high end graphics, I sit down and play games on my computer.

When I want to play highly entertaining multiplayer games, I throw Pac-Man Vs, Mr. Driller World, Timesplitters, Bomberman, Mario Kart, etc, into the GC. None of these titles have bleeding edge amazing graphics, but they're a hell of a lot of fun.

I, for one, cannot wait for the revolution. Especially if someone has the chutzpah to actually make a dentist drilling game like the one implied in the video. :D

[markster3000]

Not exactly breaking news...
We've known that this is Nintendo's strategy for months now.

And really, you can't say that Nintendo is bowing out! Bowing out, would mean pulling a Sega. And Nintendo is not pulling a Sega. Yet.

And I must say, that quote really is a serious piece of flame-bait!

[Heretic Machine]

gRAPhx r eVrything

[bapenguin]

So, we are accepting flames as front page news now?

To be fair the headline of the newspost is the same as the article. Not only that...the poster basically summed up the article in question...though I'm not sure what credibility About.com has with video games.

[Bushido]

History

About.com was originally founded as The Mining Company in 1997 by Scott Kurnit and a group of other entrepeneurs in New York City. The company changed its name to About, Inc. in 1999 and was acquired by PRIMEDIA in 2000 in a deal that valued About at $690 million. In February 2005, the New York Times Company announced that it was buying About.com, a purchase that was completed in the first half of the year for $410 million in cash. Google along with Yahoo!, Ask Jeeves, and AOL were reportedly among the other bidders.

It eliminated over 50% of its topic-sites in 2002. Most of those sites are not merged, and information on those sites is no longer accessible to the general public.

In 2002 77 former and current About.com "Guides" filed a class-action suit in New York against Primedia. The complaint was that labour laws were violated and contracts breached. The case was still ongoing as of March 2005.

[Bushido]

I'm not sure what credibility About.com has with video games.



It has no credibilty regarding anything after the new york times bought it and burned it.

[thecrazyd]

To be fair the headline of the newspost is the same as the article. Not only that...the poster basically summed up the article in question...though I'm not sure what credibility About.com has with video games.
Well, the name isn't the only part that is a horribley blatant flame.

[RMan]

That's just silly, if you want a fair comparrison, pick the DS vs. the PSP. The idea that they're even "bowing out" is just stupid, I mean, they just decided to go a different direction. Clearly MS and to a lesser degree Sony are willing to burn money to gain/keep the market, and Nintendo picked a much more imaginative way to appeal to customers rather then just funneling more money into the system/games/marketing.

[Murmillo]

Not to mention the rumor (don't you just love them) that the Rev should be only $150 on launch. Oh, Nintendo is winning alright, just not in the HDTV that PS3 and the 360 are doing.

[Zeal]

Time to accept reality.

[thecrazyd]

Time to accept reality.
So you are finally supporting the Rev?

[Zeal]

Don't worry, Nintendo will always have a place to call home.

Just not in the console industry.

[ezzkmo]

The market is getting big enough to where all 3 companies can have their own success, whether they are offering the same product or not. They will all sell a ton of systems. Even if Nintendo sells a little bit though, they always remain profitable. Just because someone else out there sells something similar and 10 times as many, why would that put Nintendo out of business? They may lose a couple sales..but at least they make more money on each unit they do sell, unlike the competition.

[RMan]

Don't worry, Nintendo will always have a place to call home.
Just not in the console industry.
Yea, and if they sell more than Sony and MS you'd just say it's not a "real" console system anyway, right?

[The Letter 3]

I don't understand the connection between the "power" of a system and game quality. You should've seen the line of people waiting to play my NES when I brought it up to my dorm room last spring.

[PantherModern]

I think bowing out is the wrong term. N is just playing it smart, letting their main competitors drive themselves into the ground while they accomplish what every company wants: make profits. MS doesn't want to be in your living room for the sole reason of being a kick-ass game machine. They want it in there so that their brand will be all over every computer device in your house. And then, when they and Intel start rolling out their "computer in every room controlling everything" setups that they are prepping, MS will be the only place you want to turn. Sony wants you to use their proprietary formats (Blu-Ray, memory Stick) and buy their TVs and stereo systems. I admire the fact that N is still just a game company. As such, they know they can't go toe to toe. Not trying to is a solid marketing and business decision.

[Blade]

Two things:

A. Idealistic anti-Nintendo news post and article about Nintendo leaving the console race completely. Good work.

B. It's their strategy to get into non-gaming homes and be the must-have secondary console to hardcore gamers. Their idea is that if everybody buys either the X360 or PS3 but everybody gets a Revolution, it will subtlely win the race in the end. It'll also be half the price, of course.

[Dabombpizza]

So...IGN has become a wealth of information about the Revolution? I haven't see much information coming from any other news sites, nor have I seen any examples of the Revolutions graphics in motion. Also, that IGN picture of Metroid Prime 3 on the second linked article is a "hacked together version of Metroid Prime 2" for the Revolution shown at TGS.

This article is crap, the information that's been posted here this past week is crap. I don't doubt the Rev will be graphically inferior, but we've all known about that for a while. Can we cut down on speculation and wait for some actual examples of how dumbed down it's going to be at E3? ...probrably not.

[Kelegacy]

Yea, and if they sell more than Sony and MS you'd just say it's not a "real" console system anyway, right?
Don't even give him the courtesy of a quote. I don't mind Zeal and usually enjoy his rants, but in the Nintendo threads he regurgitates the same aimless negativity.

[Heretic Machine]

Blade, I could definetly see them going after the "secondary console" market. With as many people as there are who own multiple consoles these days, marketing a cheap one in comparison to the exhuborant prices of the other two could easily get you a place right next to them on the shelf. Plus Nintendo will always have the die-hards and some other support (from people like me) who like to see what they'll do next, and have gotten a taste for simpler gaming.

[Murmillo]

Would some of you listen to yourselves? If some overpaid analyst said the things you were, you would be arguing left and right how he/she was so full of crap. So what makes it the truth that you are saying it instead of them.

There are some a lot of serious short sighted closed minded people on this board these days.

[DaXIthR]

This is all very disappointing.

It's not Nintendo that's looking to carve out another industry - it's MS and Sony.

Not to say one approach is smarter or superior to the other, but I hate it when people begin there rants and rambles far from the truth.

Nintendo is sticking to games only, remember? Not a set-top box. Not going for convergence.

Just because we got more information regarding the X360 and PS3 first, everyone is acting like Nintendo's doing something drastic. I admit the controller is a surprise, but really we should be expecting something along these lines from Nintendo.

Am I right? ....Am I right?

[Kelegacy]

Some people here seem to understand, others don't. Nintendo is sticking with gaming as its number 1 priority. No DVD/BR players, personal soundtracks, pimping out your console, HD displays, cutting edge graphics, harddrives etc. They want people to have fun with games and not be concerned with that other stuff. Sony and MS are moving away from the core concept of gaming with each iteration. Sure, the machines play games first and foremost, but they still aspire to be multimedia systems rather than pure gaming platforms. Since Nintendo can do without the other technology that makes Sony and MS's machines chock full of frills, many unnecessary or useless for many gamers, they can offer a drastically cheaper product and still turn a profit. Nintendo is out to create games and gaming machines, and that's their sole purpose. Not everyone is concerned with high graphical gaming...that's why I believe Live Arcade and Nintendo's downloadable oldies will be so popular; games are meant to be fun, and graphics don't always equal a better game (though they do equal a more expensive one, for consumers AND developers alike). Something as simple as Bubble Bobble can entertain me far longer than the games that are on the shelves today.

While Sony and MS are charging 60 bucks a game, I would love to see Nintendo offer not only a cheaper system, but cheaper games, something that their underpowered console should be able to do because development costs may be a fraction of the PS3 and 360 costs. More affordable, polished Nintendo games on a very affordable system would equal the underdog stealing the Goliath's thunder.

[Deadend]

Nintendo is playing it smart with their R&D money. Sony and MS both have giant armies of hardware devlopers to create cutting edge tech, which for all the cost of research and production... is not that much better than what the current Xbox can do.

Nintendo is going the easy route and making a semi-powerful system, but not going out and inventing crazy new chipsets to do so.

We are already at the point where the biggest thing holding back games are imagination, input and scale. Are there any game concepts that you can do on the X360 or PS3 you couldn't do on the Xbox that do not involve the words 'bigger' or 'more'? Now how many ideas could be possible using a 3d input device?

[jacktion]

Ummm, excuse me. Have you guys heard of something called the DS? And how it is owning the PSP despite not being as powerful? Well that is basically what Nintendo is going to do in the console arena as well, or at least try to.
They did it once, they will do it again.
Wait and see.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Time to accept reality.

Oh Zeal, I was hoping you'd come!!! *HUGS*

:rolleyes:

MS doesn't want to be in your living room for the sole reason of being a kick-ass game machine. They want it in there so that their brand will be all over every computer device in your house. And then, when they and Intel start rolling out their "computer in every room controlling everything" setups that they are prepping, MS will be the only place you want to turn.

I know that I, personally, cannot wait for the day when my commode gets the blue screen of death while I'm doing #2, or when I can receive spam while standing in front of the stove.

*I open the fridge*

"MAKE YOUR PENIS BIGGER DUDE!!! HOT YOUNG SLUTTY VIRGINS HUNGRY FOR YOU BONE!"

Technology sure is wonderful. :p

[ChaosDent]

This is all very disappointing.

It's not Nintendo that's looking to carve out another industry - it's MS and Sony.

Not to say one approach is smarter or superior to the other, but I hate it when people begin there rants and rambles far from the truth.

Nintendo is sticking to games only, remember? Not a set-top box. Not going for convergence.

Just because we got more information regarding the X360 and PS3 first, everyone is acting like Nintendo's doing something drastic. I admit the controller is a surprise, but really we should be expecting something along these lines from Nintendo.

Am I right? ....Am I right?

I look at it this way, Nintendo's goal is to bring video games to new audiences, expanding the core market. Microsoft and Sony are using games to promote new media, functionality and networks, exploiting the core market.

[Leto K]

Glad to see the title of this one attracted flame, although at least from the sound of this nintendo's got some people putting some trust in them. Of course, that could be because the nintendo fans are enraged enough to post the most, I know it got me too.

We won't know until it comes out, but I think nintendo has a smart idea, and one thats alot more sound then some might think, and a whole hell of alot less risky then MS or Sony's plan.

[Heretic Machine]

I'll end this post: The shadow of Sony and Microsoft looms over the gaming world like the shadow of Adolf Hitler over Europe in the early 20th century. Soon they will exterminate our jews, and remove the speed limits from our highways. Nintendo, like our blessed country, treads forth to battle with these villainous monsters and will push back the cold dark night, bringing a new day for the gamers of the world.

[Montgomery_Python]

^

Godwin.

[vallor]

I'll end this post: The shadow of Sony and Microsoft looms over the gaming world like the shadow of Adolf Hitler over Europe in the early 20th century. Soon they will exterminate our jews, and remove the speed limits from our highways. Nintendo, like our blessed country, treads forth to battle with these villainous monsters and will push back the cold dark night, bringing a new day for the gamers of the world.

Your mentioning of Hitler cannot quench my inner fanboi!

I love the 360, I have all three of the last set of consoles. Mario Party > my willpower.

If nintendo makes a console with the type of games at the inexpensive price similar to the Gamecube, I'll buy it and give it a proud place next to my 360.

That is not to say that the Gamecube didn't suffer when it came to getting some of the top multi-console games that were released. Fortunately the exclusive GC games justified getting the console (even if only barely, it seemed in the first few months of launch).

[midrael]

Yeesh.. what a headline.. if that's not meant to incite something, I don't know what is.

Nintendo isn't bowing out of anything. All they're doing is taking an alternative route to what they believe is "next gen." Essentially, they're saying that graphics isn't where the real battle for next gen is going to be. This doesn't surprise me at all, though those suggested price points do.

The release of the PS3 and Revolution are going to be very interesting for this console war indeed.

[TheBrainKills]

"Time to accept reality." Reality isn't here until E3 next year .... I will accept it then, thank you.

[jestercap]

Psst... flamewars = replies, views and refreshes = increased page hits = increased advertising revenue from more impressions and more potential click-throughs...

This is all becoming so tiring and so transparent. Hope you're rolling in it, Evil.

[Durandal-217]

This is a sad day for Nintendo fans.

Anyway bring on Halo 3.

[Revolutionary1]

Who needs to compete in the graphics department if you can come out with a system that innovates with a new type of controller, is backwards compatible to many classic Nintendo games, and sells for $150 less than MS or Sony?

Really? That's not much of a competition. Especially if you're actually making money at that low of a price.

[TheBrainKills]

This is a sad day for Nintendo fans.

Anyway bring on Halo 3.

You just gotta laugh at Halo whores.

[TrainwreckX]

This is a sad day for Nintendo fans.

Anyway bring on Halo 3.

I am curious to know how old this person is. I mean their real age, not what they are going to reply and say.

You see, it is people who have grown up in the "Counter-Strike Era" (like my brother) that don't have an appreciation for innovative game design.

I was talking with The Romero recently. He was telling me how he thought the Revolution was way cool. I said "I didn't know you like Nintendo." He just paused for a moment and said "Dude, Nintendo is the only company looking to keep innovation in the design of games."

Well stated, John.


Here is why Gamecube doesn't do as well with multi-platform games: Why buy a game on GC when I can buy it for either of the other systems and get online play with it?

I have all three systems, and don't get me wrong, I love my Cube. However, when I have the option to get a game like Timesplitters on any of the three it comes down to - Xbox and Cube have the best gfx, Xbox has online - and I buy the Xbox version.

Now, with Nintendo Wi-Fi connection actually having infastructure WHEN THE SYSTEM LAUNCHES is a huge selling point. Mr. Iwata said he would "make sure" that one of the launch games is HAL Labs 3rd installment of Smash Brothers.

Smash Brothers, man... WTF does Halo have on Smash Brothers?


*Edit* Also, you have to remember that the Gamecube is TECHNICALLY the most powerful system out of the current generation. If it had more RAM it would look better than XBOX and it is supposedly a breeze to develop for.

So 3 times the current most powerful of systems is still saying a lot. Games look great on Gamecube, I can't believe some of you are saying otherwise.

I also think Xbox 360 doesn't impress as far as graphics go. COD2 looks better on PC, everything in Perfect Dark is normal mapped (so they could technically have made Halo 2 look like that), and the other games are a joke. Kameo is the best looking game, and it is just in hair and partical effects that it looks great.

Don't be fooled - Revolution graphics will look very good, just maybe not lifelike.

[Player 1]

Originally Posted by Zeal
Don't worry, Nintendo will always have a place to call home.
Just not in the console industry.
Yea, and if they sell more than Sony and MS you'd just say it's not a "real" console system anyway, right?

I'm fairly impartial to the news - mainly due to the source (about.com) and mainly due to the fact that it's just another rumour-story.

However, it never ceases to amaze me how people react to any critcism of Nintendo. It verges on religious fantacism. You have your God, your idols, your place of worship. People choose a religion and are happy to discredit all others - yet they simply cannot tolerate criticism of their own. Their Way is The Chosen, The Right, The Just.

And, just as how logic and rationale don't carry any weight in religious arguments, they don't carry weight with pro-Nintendo gamers.

"Nintendo will never die! They will never stop making games! It doesn't matter that they aren't the biggest!"

And when a high-priest of the cult of Nintendo speaks, the followers believe every word uttered without question.


OK, that's all a bit dramatic (but the parrallels *are* there!) but I feel I've made my point. Nintendo are simply a company. Companies come and go as dictated by business and financial trends. Never say never.

[Zeal]

Can you please tell me why this guy just wrote a book.

Of course it had nothing to do with anything.

[Morratut]

Nintendo is going for the Vtech/Tomy market.

[TrainwreckX]

I'm fairly impartial to the news - mainly due to the source (about.com) and mainly due to the fact that it's just another rumour-story.

However, it never ceases to amaze me how people react to any critcism of Nintendo. It verges on religious fantacism. You have your God, your idols, your place of worship. People choose a religion and are happy to discredit all others - yet they simply cannot tolerate criticism of their own. Their Way is The Chosen, The Right, The Just.

And, just as how logic and rationale don't carry any weight in religious arguments, they don't carry weight with pro-Nintendo gamers.

"Nintendo will never die! They will never stop making games! It doesn't matter that they aren't the biggest!"

And when a high-priest of the cult of Nintendo speaks, the followers believe every word uttered without question.


OK, that's all a bit dramatic (but the parrallels *are* there!) but I feel I've made my point. Nintendo are simply a company. Companies come and go as dictated by business and financial trends. Never say never.

Nobody said "Never", we just aren't saying "Now." In your analogy it is not respectful to downplay somebody's religion. Similarly it is nonsense to tell somebody that Nintendo is going to lose. Lose what? I don't understand what there is to lose? They will soon be the only gaming console around, and people still will compare them to the two media centers Sony and MS are making.

It doesn't make sense to compare them in the first place. If Nintendo wanted to they could buy all the shiny tech that Sony and MS have, why wouldn't they be able to? Shoot, they wouldn't even have to go beyond their current partnerships with ATI and IBM.

But they aren't. Why? Well Zeal will say because Nintendo is "stupid" or "insane" but I will call it smart. Listen to Reggie talk about the reasons, it is fairly convincing.

People will own a 360 and a PS3 and have a REV in addition to one of those two.

[Achilles]

Nobody said "Never", we just aren't saying "Now." In your analogy it is not respectful to downplay somebody's religion. Similarly it is nonsense to tell somebody that Nintendo is going to lose. Lose what? I don't understand what there is to lose? They will soon be the only gaming console around, and people still will compare them to the two media centers Sony and MS are making.Oh come on, just because the PS3 and the 360 do things other than just play games, which the Revolution does as well (web browsing, playing DVDs, etc.), doesn't mean they're not making game machines.

[Player 1]

Can you please tell me why this guy just wrote a book.

Was that directed at me?

(I often get criticised for lengthy posts)

Nobody said "Never", we just aren't saying "Now."

And, generally speaking, gamers refuse to accept that "now" will *ever* arrive. Total dominance for ages, crushed in the last two generations / 10 years (by consumer choice more than anything else) . "now" won't ever happen according to many gamers until, one day, they'll turn around and Nintendo may not be there.

This is *belief* over *logic* and *proven history* - hence the ease with which it's possible to make offside comparisons to religious fanatacism.

They will soon be the only gaming console around, and people still will compare them to the two media centers Sony and MS are making.

You seem to forget that, not only will MS and Sony boxes play games but that the Nintendo box will play DVDs. I'm reminded of a comical statement from Nintendo shortly after PSP was launched. They slated it for diluting gaming with all it's media playback functions. A week later they announced MP3 media support addons for the DS.

It doesn't make sense to compare them in the first place. If Nintendo wanted to they could buy all the shiny tech that Sony and MS have, why wouldn't they be able to?

Nintendo say 'we are not competing with Sony and MS'. You say 'Nintendo are not competing with Sony and MS'. I just made comparisons with people unquestioningly believing every word their chosen God utters. It's pretty clear which alter you worship at isn't it?

Yet the entire world see Nintendo, Sony and MS making new home consoles and releasing them all within 12 months on one another. Every area of retail, shop, catalogues will bunch the products together. Consumers will choose between these three products.

The power is with the consumers - THEY will decide who is competing with who. Not Nintendo. Their statement is simply a marketing line - if they can make you believe they have no competition then they will be stronger for it.

Me? I'm a gaming aetheist.

Listen to Reggie talk about the reasons, it is fairly convincing.

Reggie is PR. Reggie is marketing. Reggie is good at his job of making whatever his company does sound convincing. Add to the fact that you clearly *want* to believe whatever he says all sense of objectivity is lost.

He's preaching to the converted and you're lapping up every word.

[TrainwreckX]

Directed at Achilles: No - but it means they aren't focusing on gameplay. They rely completely on the 3rd parties. What is a good Sony-made game? What is a good MS-made game (Halo doesn't count, Bungie operates almost completely independently)?

The lack of good first-party titles show the lack of care for gameplay. Sure they are lucky enough to have partnerships with some good companies, but you guys are only looking at this from the surface.

What is it that gains third-party support? Well it is a number of things. Some companies - like Epic and Tecmo - just want to be where the graphical capabilities are. These people share the same vision as MS and Sony.

Other companies - like Square Enix and Namco - want to be in a position to make creative new types of games. These companies share the same vision as Nintendo.

As you can see, Nintendo isn't going to "beat" anyone. They have a different strategy. Sony and MS have a legit strategy too. However, theirs will not "beat" Nintendo, because that is impossible.

It is like comparing apples and oranges. Nintendo is going after the most respectible niche in this industry - the hardcore gamer. If Zeal was a hardcore gamer, he would not be wearing Sony-shaded glasses. He would look upon all systems equally, as I do. I do not discount either of the other two companies.

[Manzy]

Directed at Achilles: No - but it means they aren't focusing on gameplay. They rely completely on the 3rd parties. What is a good Sony-made game? What is a good MS-made game (Halo doesn't count, Bungie operates almost completely independently)?


Sony has Shadows of the Colossus, ICO, and God of War. That's just off the top of my head. I've only played SotC, so I can't vouch for the latter two being good games. They all got good review scores across the board.

As for Microsoft, I could say Kameo and Perfect Dark Zero, but Rare probably falls under your same definition as Bungie.
I do believe Forza Motorsport was internally developed.
Haha, and who can forget SkiFree, Minesweeper, or Solitaire?

[Achilles]

No - but it means they aren't focusing on gameplay. They rely completely on the 3rd parties. What is a good Sony-made game? What is a good MS-made game (Halo doesn't count, Bungie operates almost completely independently)?I was going to stay out of this thread too. Darnit. Crimson Skies and Shadow of the Colossus. They do rely on 3rd parties though. It’s good to have 3rd parties.

I think it’s a good thing to be committed to helping 3rd parties as well as internal developers realize their visions and develop their own gameplay on a console by providing options, support, and versatility.However, theirs will not "beat" Nintendo, because that is impossible.Sounds like the spoon scene from the first Matrix movie.It is like comparing apples and oranges. Nintendo is going after the most respectible niche in this industry - the hardcore gamer.Reggie says their plan is to sail to the blue waters, away from the feeding frenzy of the current market and create their own market by getting back to the roots of what originally spawned the industry: non-gamers and fun, easy to play games. He says that he’s interested in appealing to a wider market, the kind of market that their original games hooked and turned into gamers. I believe Reggie when he says that’s Nintendo’s plan.

[TrainwreckX]

I think it’s a good thing to be committed to helping 3rd parties as well as internal developers realize their visions and develop their own gameplay on a console by providing options, support, and versatility.Sounds like the spoon scene from the first Matrix movie.Reggie says their plan is to sail to the blue waters, away from the feeding frenzy of the current market and create their own market by getting back to the roots of what originally spawned the industry: non-gamers and fun, easy to play games. He says that he’s interested in appealing to a wider market, the kind of market that their original games hooked and turned into gamers. I believe Reggie when he says that’s Nintendo’s plan.

In no way was I trying to say 3rd parties were bad, you can't be successful without them. I just said if Nintendo entices 3rd parties, then they will be successful because they have the best 1st party games of anyone.

Sorry, I overlooked Shadow of the Colossus. However, what is one game compared to entire series like Zelda, Mario, Kart, Metroid, Starfox, and Smash Brothers to just name a few.

And anyone that says Nintendo is for children (if anyone is thinking it), you are full of crap. Just because their games are "safe" for children doesn't mean that they are "for" children. Zelda being the prime example of this.

Yes, Achilles, Reggie's words right there make sense. I don't know why Player1 thinks I am just eating up every word Nintendo says. Some things they do and say are stupid: No online for Gamecube, The Virtual Boy, R.O.B., Power Glove, bad first party support for N64.

However, they have never established themselves as seperate from Sony and MS. This is new, and this is good.

Stay successful by doing something unique and targeting a different demographic. You say the power is with the consumer. I believe this to a point, but you need to target specific types of consumers with your goods.

Nintendo has decided to target a certain demographic, a demographic that I happen to fall into (Hardcore gamers that care about innovative design).

Is there anyone else out there that get's sick of playing World War II and GTA clones and sequels? There is hope, and that hope is Nintendo. That's all I'm saying.

[bapenguin]

Psst... flamewars = replies, views and refreshes = increased page hits = increased advertising revenue from more impressions and more potential click-throughs...

This is all becoming so tiring and so transparent. Hope you're rolling in it, Evil.

Oh the ignorance.

[Player 1]

Sorry, I overlooked Shadow of the Colossus. However, what is one game compared to entire series like Zelda, Mario, Kart, Metroid, Starfox, and Smash Brothers to just name a few.

Wow. What a fantastic statement!

You're right, of course. What's the point of constantly creating original IP when your typical 'informed' gamer can only be trusted to remember franchises for companies such as Nintendo, Retro Studios (Metroid), RARE / Argonaut / Namco (Starfox) and HAL Laboratories (Smash Brothers).

I you weren't so clearly favoured towards Nintendo and against Sony you'd not be forgetting/ignorant of:

Fantavision
Flippul
SOCOM
Formula One
Wipeout
Eye Toy
Ape Escape
The Getaway
Wild Arms
Gran Tourismo
Chain Dive

Because you value a game series so highly, I've highlighted some PS2 ones in that list for you. No need to thank me. :p And that's just a sprinkling SCEE / SCEA / SCEI and some choice first party titles (hey, if you can choose first parties, so can I)

What is one game compared to entire series ..

Because one game is enough to prove your point. Release an entire series around the same idea or character is just milking it. A series of games has no intrinsic value of it's own - just because it's a series of games doesn't make them special. Or do you buy yearly updates of all your EA Sports games?

Do you see what happens to your argument when we remove the blinkers? :D

Are you starting to understand why I see you as completely biased or do I need to make it any clearer?

[jacktion]

"Nintendo looks to be introducing a system that compares to Sony and Microsoft's consoles about as well as a Game and Watch system compares to the original Game Boy. People just didn't see them on the same level."

Kind of like people didn't see the DS and PSP on the same level?

We all know how that turned out.

[Royal Fool]

Even if it's "less powerful" and all that bullshit, it's still a goddamn console. Nintendo still fully intends to be in the console business. You'll see Revolution software on the same shelves as the other stuff.

They're not bowing out, they're just going for a different strategy.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Once again Player 1 turns up in a Nintendo thread to bash Nintendo fanboys. He claims to be unbiased, yet I NEVER see him doing the same in Sony or MS threads. Therefore he is not unbiased as he claims, and apparently holds some grudge towards Nintendo that he refuses to acknowledge.

Case closed.

[Headcase]

Yeah, they pretty much said the exact same thing about the Gamecube 5 years ago. Grain of salt.

[jacktion]

Jeez, that Player 1 guy has a lot of Nintendo-hate for someone who claims to be a gaming atheist. I smell a bitter bias. It smells like lemons mixed with battery acid.


Look at it like this. Are Ferraris and Honda Civics in competition? According to "Player 1" they are.

"They are bothe carzz11!"
"People that drive carz will see them together!!1"
"They are defunitly in competishon!!1"

But you don't hear a lot of people saying "Ferrari is totally pwning Honda!!!1"
They are not really in competition.

If you can afford a Ferrari they would be a nice status symbol. They are fast. They are expensive. They look nice. They break down a lot. Kind of like the 360.

But most people will buy the Rev. It will be far cheaper. It is still fun to drive. It works great.

Both companies can be profitable and succesful in the marketplace. (although Ferrari has been losing a lot of money lately)

[jestercap]

Oh the ignorance.

Then why the rampant speculative articles and news posts obviously designed to incite rage in the fanbases of respective consoles? You can't actually think that most of this junk is actually "news," can you? See, there's a tagline right under the big 'ol Evil Avatar eye up top there that says "Daily Gaming News... With Attitude," and recently this site has been getting further and further away from "news" and closer and closer to daily fanboy riots.

But hey, it's your site, do what you wish with it - I just think it's irresponsible to call most of the drivel here "news," is all.

[Player 1]

Once again Player 1 turns up in a Nintendo thread to bash Nintendo fanboys. He claims to be unbiased, yet I NEVER see him doing the same in Sony or MS threads. Therefore he is not unbiased as he claims, and apparently holds some grudge towards Nintendo that he refuses to acknowledge.

Case closed.

You know something, if I saw the same rampant, undeserved, totally-free-of-logic posts statements toward Sony or MS (or EA) products then you'll see me make some sort of contribution. Check my other posts, you'll see I do speak out when I have something to say, regardless of whatever person/box/company is involved.

The degree of my anti-Nintendo contributions is directly attributed to the amount of complete Nintendo bullshit that populates this forum.

I like Nintendo.

I like accuracy and facts a hell of a lot more though.

I disapprove on any argument where the driving force is bias over facts (such as 'game series = good' - which sounds great if you think in Nintendo terms and bad if you think in EA terms - the difference is the BIAS, not the FACT).

What everyone gets so uptight about me is that I refuse to jump on the EA bashing / Nintendo loving / Jack Thompson flaming bandwagon and actually think before I open my yap.

If you genuinely want to know how I tick just ask me (or look up the many posts where I have fully explained myself to people who simply can't accept a different view and assume I'm some hater). Evil Avatar's accuracy for understanding me is precisely 0%.

Look at it like this. Are Ferraris and Honda Civics in competition? According to "Player 1" they are.

"They are bothe carzz11!"
"People that drive carz will see them together!!1"
"They are defunitly in competishon!!1"

Seeing as how astoundingly consistent this forum is at totally misunderstanding where I come from with my opinions I'd suggest you quote what I actually say rather than put words into my mouth. You demonstrate you don't understand me and you emphasise this lack of knowledge by writing that sort of rubbish above.

Please don't do it in future, thanks.

[Heretic Machine]

Here is an idea: Let's wait and see who gets the first, second, and third place positions in the console war, and if anyone get's wiped out?

[jacktion]

You're right. I'm sorry. Here it is right from his mouth.


Turdpoop. Me hate nintendo. doodie.

[mister_slim]

Don't even give him the courtesy of a quote. I don't mind Zeal and usually enjoy his rants, but in the Nintendo threads he regurgitates the same aimless negativity.
Are you accusing him of the same lack of creativity he claims is Nintendo's failing?
You seem to forget that, not only will MS and Sony boxes play games but that the Nintendo box will play DVDs. I'm reminded of a comical statement from Nintendo shortly after PSP was launched. They slated it for diluting gaming with all it's media playback functions. A week later they announced MP3 media support addons for the DS.
A little revisionist history there?

I like accuracy and facts a hell of a lot more though.
Why don't you demonstrate that, then?

[Player 1]

I just did. Did you miss it?

What fucking hoop do you expect me to jump through next?

I'm sorry if you feel hard done by. I rather dislike the whole attitude around here that I must *prove* every point I make beyond a shadow of a fanboy's doubt.

So, I have one critic quoting me out of context and another putting words into my mouth or ridiculing his own argument by making up things I didn't say.

Is that the best you can do?

Still, when in doubt attack the person rather than the argument eh?

[Murmillo]

Man, I would really wish Player 1 would quit acting like he is a-know-it-all-I've-been-in-the-business-for-45-years-so-you-should-all-listen-to-what-I-say attitude.

Sometimes you just have to let have some things roll off your back.

[Achilles]

I'm sorry if you feel hard done by. I rather dislike the whole attitude around here that I must *prove* every point I make beyond a shadow of a fanboy's doubt.

So, I have one critic quoting me out of context and another putting words into my mouth or ridiculing his own argument by making up things I didn't say.

Is that the best you can do?

Still, when in doubt attack the person rather than the argument eh?You’re such a heretic man. Let the flames of Nintendo’s holy purity, and the pixy dust from the golden hand of Toymaker Miyamoto cleanse this area.

[Player 1]

Man, I would really wish Player 1 would quit acting like he is a-know-it-all-I've-been-in-the-business-for-45-years-so-you-should-all-listen-to-what-I-say attitude.

Sometimes you just have to let have some things roll off your back.

Hey, I contributed to this topic, I gave my reasons and cited some pretty clear examples as to why I took a particular stance. Others don't like it so they start insulting me. Yourself included.

If you can't demonstrate the ability to "let some things roll off your back" then why the hell should you expect others to do so?

Fucking amazing attitude you guys have. Really fucking amazing..

[Phades]

Still, when in doubt attack the person rather than the argument eh?

That's exactly what I was thinking. Instead of going after your argument they just attack you. Not exactly the most convincing tactic.

[Wokapto]

I was going to try and argue a point here. I actually had a long, fancy post all written up and ready to go. After reading it, however, I realized that it was inefficient. It was 4 paraghraphs trying to hint at a simple message, so I thought, why not stop beating around the bush? Anyway I distilled it into a single sentance for your viewing pleasure.



Player 1 is a douchebag.



Also, Player 1, what's with "the world ARE" and "Nintendo ARE" instead of "the world IS" and "Nintendo IS." Do you do that because you're british? I'm not saying it's incorrect, because I have no idea if it is or not, but it struck me as odd.

[Rakael]

I rarely comment on anything you say Player 1, but you are in damn near every Nintendo thread going on about how they are going to fall. Yes, some of us are getting a bit tired of hearing your broken record, and its starting to show.

[Player 1]

Player 1 is a douchebag.

Gee. I bet you wish Phades' post wasn't just above your thoughtful and worthwhile contribution huh? :D

Also, Player 1, what's with "the world ARE" and "Nintendo ARE" instead of "the world IS" and "Nintendo IS." Do you do that because you're british? I'm not saying it's incorrect, because I have no idea if it is or not, but it struck me as odd.

Hmm. Tell you what. How about you don't precede questions (valid or otherwise) with personal insults. It'll probably make the person you're asking actually give a damn.

"Hey Boss, you lousy sonofabitch, any chance of a raise?"

[Rakael]

Oh, and by the way Player 1, if you don't want people attacking you personally, please stop calling anyone who supports Nintendo a "fanatic". So some of us believe they will do well with the Revolution, does that make us fanatics? No, it makes us people who think the Rev will do well in the next gen. You seem to be just as fanatical in your belief that they will fail. I smell hypocrisy.

[Player 1]

I rarely comment on anything you say Player 1, but you are in damn near every Nintendo thread going on about how they are going to fall. Yes, some of us are getting a bit tired of hearing your broken record, and its starting to show.

Oh? I admit, I criticise Nintendo a lot (consider it the yin to the fanboy yang) but I don't believe I've ever done the whole "They're doomed!" bit.

Perhaps if people didn't immediately assume they don't need to read what I say they won't make the mistake of assuming I say the same thing every time. My personal belief as that many people stop paying attention as soon as they realise I'm not going to say something they agree with. I feel this way because the responses I get suggest that people aren't digesting what I'm saying, why I'm saying it or even bothering to read it properly.

Of course, regardless of this, they still believe I'm utterly wrong and that they can speak for me. I've actually seen forum posts here that say "I didn't read that, but you're wrong". The thing that's most amazing to me is that others regard that sort of level of debate to be a reasoned and intelligent contribution.

Oh, and by the way Player 1, if you don't want people attacking you personally, please stop calling anyone who supports Nintendo a "fanatic".

Wheee! Look at me get misquoted!

I didn't "call anyone who supports Nintendo a "fanatic"". I took an extreme example and compared it to another extreme example. Please read my comments more carefully so as not to mistake them. You may feel less offended when you realise I'm not making the sweeping generalisation you assume I am.

So some of us believe they will do well with the Revolution, does that make us fanatics? No, it makes us people who think the Rev will do well in the next gen. You seem to be just as fanatical in your belief that they will fail. I smell hypocrisy.

I don't wish Nintendo to fail. I enjoy Nintendo games. What I don't enjoy is damage to this culture. When I see someone trying to slate a 360 or a PS3 by stating they're nothing but media centers and the Revolution is the only real games console I feel very sad. Apart from the factual innaccuracies plainly evident in such a statement the clear belief and conviction of the speaker shows me that he's not able to see things as they are - only as they appear in his head. I'm seeing that shocking degree of 'logic' appearing more and more frequently and more and more gamers accepting it.

This sort of skewed rationale comes from favouritism of one platform over another. There is one platform more than most others that appears to breed this sort of behaviour. So I aim a considerable amount of my critique at them - but not a disproportionate amount. I have criticised and praised all the relevant companies where I see fit. You will find my posts here doing that. I even praise when everyone is determined to criticise. It's so sad that gamers are binary. It's all or nothing. If I'm not praising Nintendo I must hate them. If I dare to praise EA I must be some sort of EA fanboy. Why gamers are so quick to judge and so incapable of seeing things outside of being either "for" or "against" is beyond me. Perhaps it's a result of playing too many games where the outcome is either WIN or LOSE? :confused:


Regardless, I have contributed more to this culture and industry than your average gamer and it upsets and angers me when I see it being damaged in such a way.

Now, I have explained myself AGAIN to a group of people that have done nothing worthy of my time or attention. If you don't like what you read, I don't care. If you don't agree with it then you're wrong - there is only one expert on me and that's me. If you feel my motivation is wrong then, once again, I don't care. If I cared what everyone else thought I'd do nothing but agree with every comment made - and that's just not my style.


Now, any chance of this ceasing to be another Player 1 witchhunt and talking like civilised adults?

[Wokapto]

Gee. I bet you wish Phades' post wasn't just above your thoughtful and worthwhile contribution huh? :D


I never claimed it was thoughtful or worthwhile, just concise. And the location of Phades' post interests me as much as the answer to my original question, which is slightly. In any case, we're all adults or at least mature enough to use a computer with some or all of our clothes on, do we have to take everything so seriously? So I called you a douchebag, who hasn't? You're not well liked, but that's not the point. The point is that I want to know if you write things oddly becaue you're from England, or because you have some strange and uninteresting typing disorder.

[Rakael]

Well, stop telling us what we do and trying to be such a god damned martyr and maybe you will get a bit more respect. I read everything that you say, especially before commenting. I don't like or agree with what you say, and would be happy to have an open and intelligent conversation with you about it. However, when I'm called a religious fanatic because I disagree with your opinion, I'm less inclined to converse and more inclined to flip you the bird and move on. See where I'm coming from here?

Perhaps if you were a little more open to what others say, stop comparing those with differing opinions on Nintendo to religious fanatics, and cease this whole martyr business, you would get more decent conversation.

[TheBrainKills]

People choose a religion and are happy to discredit all others - yet they simply cannot tolerate criticism of their own. Their Way is The Chosen, The Right, The Just.



DO you seriously consider Zeals comments criticism? His comments are just bait, trying to get people to attack him.

"Time to accept reality."; "Don't worry, Nintendo will always have a place to call home.Just not in the console industry."

I can't believe you are trying to defend him.

Plus did you know that us Nintendo Zealots also like other consoles? I want to buy a Xbox 360, too bad I can't find one tho.
You are generalizing a lot of people unjustly in my opinion. I believe that you are the one with the blinders on. You have already formed an opinion on the revolution and Nintendo and are unwilling to see that maybe they have a strategy that might work.

[Player 1]

I never claimed it was thoughtful or worthwhile, just concise. And the location of Phades' post interests me as much as the answer to my original question, which is slightly. In any case, we're all adults or at least mature enough to use a computer with some or all of our clothes on, do we have to take everything so seriously? So I called you a douchebag, who hasn't? You're not well liked, but that's not the point. The point is that I want to know if you write things oddly becaue you're from England, or because you have some strange and uninteresting typing disorder.

You really aren't likely to get a helpful answer with your questioning tactics. Did you attend the same school of charm and etiquette as Jack Thompson?

Additionally, you may want to get a better grasp of the word "concise"

[Rakael]

Ok, fuck it. I'm done. I knew I shouldn't have even tried. Whenever you are ready Player 1, I'll have the wood, hammer and nails waiting for ya.

[Player 1]

Well, stop telling us what we do and trying to be such a god damned martyr and maybe you will get a bit more respect.

Holy shit! You think I want your respect? Try lowering your ego down a few notches ok?

All I expect is the same level of courtesy and civility that anybody should be treated with. That is not asking for respect - that's expecting the basics. I'm alarmed you consider my expectations to be something special or something that should be earned.

I read everything that you say, especially before commenting. I don't like or agree with what you say, and would be happy to have an open and intelligent conversation with you about it.

...

However, when I'm called a religious fanatic because I disagree with your opinion,

Doh! Looks like you didn't read what I wrote carefully enough then does it? How about you go back and start again - and don't try to blame me for your lack of basic comprehension.

That'd be great. Thanks.

I'm less inclined to converse and more inclined to flip you the bird and move on. See where I'm coming from here?

You're going to flip me the bird (that sounds so cute when it's written :p) on an internet forum?

You know something? I thought I saw where you were coming from a while back. Now I know for certain. Feel free to go back there as soon as you like.

Perhaps if you were a little more open to what others say, stop comparing those with differing opinions on Nintendo to religious fanatics, and cease this whole martyr business, you would get more decent conversation.

Right now I'd settle for people that actually comprehend what I said in the first place. I think I've got more chance of blagging a 360 though..

[dr_wily]

LOLZER. God damn i love these Player 1 dialogues, even when i only skim.

The answer is simple: you set yourself up for an attack. This is nothing new. Everytime a word comes out of your mouth it just BEGS to be responded to.

even better, you have to spin circles on every single comment replying to your post, making us all seem that you have EA on autorefresh just HOPING that someone responded.

I caught on to player 1's shenanigans a while ago. Dare i say I was the original defunker? *bows*

good stuff, keep up the good work EAers!

[Serapth]

Hey... Player1...

<P>
/--\
| |
| |
| |
/--\ /--\/--\
| || | || \
/| || | || |
| |
| |
\ /
</P>


What can I say... I was bored... (only 20 more long minutes at work.......)

[Wokapto]

You really aren't likely to get a helpful answer with your questioning tactics. Did you attend the same school of charm and etiquette as Jack Thompson?

I might say the same to you, and then also ask you that same question. The Jack Thompson one, not the weird are/is one. I didn't know if that was clear. I hope it was. Even if it wasn't originally though, it should be now that I've explained it. It being the meaning of "question" in the first sentance.

Additionally, you may want to get a better grasp of the word "concise"

Concise - marked by brevity of expression or statement : free from all elaboration and superfluous detail.

You know your right. If I knew that concise meant short I would have said Player 1 = douchebag. That really streamlined my message, I thank you.

This topic is getting off course, the main point is that you still haven't answered my question. Now I feel like we have a real dialogue going here, we can communicate openly. I called you a name. It may have been unnecessary, and it may have been childish, but it was also funny, and that's what's really important here. Also I needed to kill some time before my accounting class, and this was the most convenient way to do that. Now I know that doesn't make it right, but it does make it slightly more funny for me. I don't really know where I'm going with this, but I do know that it's been a hell of a ride Player 1, a hell of a ride. I'd like to think that we all learned a lesson from this. That lesson is that logical and or well thought out arguments are boring, and name calling is funny. I feel like we've all grown up a bit.

[Player 1]

...
Another fine Evil Avatar representative demonstrating why gamer culture is so well respected.

S'funny - You guys STILL haven't dealt with the argument - just thrown insults at the guy who says things you don't like to hear. The more insults you throw at me the more you prove me right. :D

[Murmillo]

Another fine Evil Avatar representative demonstrating why gamer culture is so well respected.
And you are fucking fine example too.

[Wokapto]

You don't have to get all sensitive about it. I mean sure I outwitted you, but that doesn't change the fact that you're a special and unique person Player 1. Also you're a douchebag.

[Player 1]

And you are fucking fine example too.

Why? Because I don't jump on bandwagons and dare to speak my mind regardless of whether it's in accordance with popular opinion? Do I make unsubstantiated statements with no examples to back them up favouring two word arguments and a smiley?

If being a fine example of gamer culture means flinging insults and seeing who can shout loudest without any concern with logic or objectivity then I'm very happy to be excluded from it's ranks.

[t3g]

I loved the NES. Great titles and was a cultural phenomenon.
I loved the SNES. Better graphics, legendary RPGs.
I liked the N64. Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were great social games.
I was disappointed with the GameCube. Besides Mario, where's the games?

So where does this put the Revolution on a slowly declining interest level? Pretty low actually. Nintendo refuses to go 3rd party and has hardware that cannot complete with the big dogs. They are out of touch with reality and really lose more of it each day.

How many more years can we play more Mario games? They were fun up to the late SNES/early 64 era, but the welcome has been lost. They try to throw their franchises here and there (soccer and baseball? wtf) and if they continue to milk them, even the fanbois will stop.

So when the Revolution lacks HD, has a very odd controller, and declining fan base, I really hope Nintendo gets their head out of their asses and rethinks their game strategy. Its not the early 90s anymore!

[Murmillo]

Why? Because I don't jump on bandwagons and dare to speak my mind regardless of whether it's in accordance with popular opinion? Do I make unsubstantiated statements with no examples to back them up favouring two word arguments and a smiley?

If being a fine example of gamer culture means flinging insults and seeing who can shout loudest without any concern with logic or objectivity then I'm very happy to be excluded from it's ranks.

If you mean the only band wagon you seem to be on right now is that Nintendo is going to fail because they are doing what is in accordance with popular opinion. You give no real reason why Nintendo is going to fail, other then, just because.

I havn't seen you use logic or objectivity much yourself. To you, Nintendo + Revoution = Failure = Because I think so.

Like I said, you have this I'm-better-then-all-of-you-attitude and yet you are just the same, another "fine" example just like the rest of us.

[Murmillo]

I loved the NES. Great titles and was a cultural phenomenon.
I loved the SNES. Better graphics, legendary RPGs.
I liked the N64. Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were great social games.
I was disappointed with the GameCube. Besides Mario, where's the games?

So where does this put the Revolution on a slowly declining interest level? Pretty low actually. Nintendo refuses to go 3rd party and has hardware that cannot complete with the big dogs. They are out of touch with reality and really lose more of it each day.

How many more years can we play more Mario games? They were fun up to the late SNES/early 64 era, but the welcome has been lost. They try to throw their franchises here and there (soccer and baseball? wtf) and if they continue to milk them, even the fanbois will stop.

So when the Revolution lacks HD, has a very odd controller, and declining fan base, I really hope Nintendo gets their head out of their asses and rethinks their game strategy. Its not the early 90s anymore!

So, the 00' are?.. Paying more for games that have weaker storylines, quicker gameplay, no imagination at all and the only thing that makes them better then 90' games is better graphics?

Don't get me wrong, I love my HD, but when games are paper thin and I keep on finding myself playing 5 year old games on my 46" DLP tv (ugly jaggies and all) and have a better time doing so.. something is wrong with todays games.

But thats just how I feel about games. Some people are happy with thier shinny fluffy bullshit watered out HDTV games for $60. I like saving money and playing games that have real meat to it.

[Achilles]

It’s disappointing that the regular Nintendo fans have come out with torches to burn Player 1 for making a comment about folks like TrainwreckX who is clearly the one he was talking about in his second post when talking about comparisons to religious faith. Unless you think that you’re a crazed Nintendo fan I’m not sure why anybody would take offense at the comment that Nintendo spawns in some people a religious fervor that abandons logic. Cuz it does. So does Sony and Microsoft, there are just a much larger group of people who feel that way about Nintendo because they grew up with the big N.

His first post was more about the wording of RMan’s response to Zeal and what underlying culture results in that kind of discussion. Zeal’s comments I see as his opinion, stated just as he thinks it without any attempt to start a discussion. I don’t think he’s trying to get attention, he’s just flatly stating what he thinks without any elaboration, which pisses people off and gets responses like RMan's, who understandably didn't feel the need to try to engage the guy.

For TrainwreckX, I don’t think he’s a bad guy or anything, he just has so clearly bought into the parts that he likes of what Nintendo is saying that he starts to ignore the pieces that don’t fit, like the DVD playback and the appeal to a wide group of gamers. He’s got a picture of what he wants Nintendo to be, designing their system around hardcore gamers, only thinking about games when making their system, etc. I think he should look at the benefits of the ways that the other companies are doing things, to games and to the industry. Sony grew gaming with the PS2, they didn’t do a lot for multimedia, but they did a lot for gaming in the last 10 years, and it’s clearly not all bad because there are some really good games that came about from their model.

Likening him to a religious fanatic ain’t really a good way to start off a dialog about those things, but Trainwreck’s weren’t well thought through opinions. You have to know that people who are pissed off about what they think you said aren’t going to go back with a clear head and try to figure it out. It’s the internet after all. They’ll just assume that their first impression was right and demand that you prove them wrong in subsequent posts. Saying to them ‘you guys suck, that’s not what I said, go read my damn posts.’ isn’t going to solve anything.

[Achilles]

But thats just how I feel about games. Some people are happy with thier shinny fluffy bullshit watered out HDTV games for $60. I like saving money and playing games that have real meat to it.The $60 game thing is interesting. Most big N64 games were $60 or even $64. Many SNES games were that price ($60) and I bought Master of Monsters on the Genesis for that much. So it's not as strange a thing as people seem to think that there are $60 games these days.

On the other hand MS isn't charging that much, and Sony won't either. Neither company wants to control what 3rd parties charge, but for their own games they don't charge $60. I think 3rd parties might stop doing it as well after a bit. And doing it for a port like Tony Hawk is just dumb and has no excuse whatsoever.

We don't know what Nintendo will charge for games so this isn't really a factor for them yet.

[Rakael]

Achilles, I see and respect your point. I will say that my mini-rants against Player1 have been building for quite a while.

I am always open for a good, and even "heated" discussion. I chat on EA all day long instead of working. When it comes to Player1 however, I stand by my statements.

[jwbxx]

I loved the NES. Great titles and was a cultural phenomenon.
I loved the SNES. Better graphics, legendary RPGs.
I liked the N64. Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were great social games.
I was disappointed with the GameCube. Besides Mario, where's the games?

So where does this put the Revolution on a slowly declining interest level? Pretty low actually. Nintendo refuses to go 3rd party and has hardware that cannot complete with the big dogs. They are out of touch with reality and really lose more of it each day.

How many more years can we play more Mario games? They were fun up to the late SNES/early 64 era, but the welcome has been lost. They try to throw their franchises here and there (soccer and baseball? wtf) and if they continue to milk them, even the fanbois will stop.

So when the Revolution lacks HD, has a very odd controller, and declining fan base, I really hope Nintendo gets their head out of their asses and rethinks their game strategy. Its not the early 90s anymore!My thoughts exactly.

[TheBrainKills]

I was disappointed with the GameCube. Besides Mario, where's the games?

.....

How many more years can we play more Mario games?

Go to Gamerankings dot com and you will see that there are over 100 titles that rank over 80%. Not all of them are Mario games. Its funny that people bitch about the Mario titles yet they continue to sell, if you don't like them don't buy them!

[Setzer_83]

i seriously love how this went from a nintendo bashing thread to a Player 1 bashing thread.

before i leave just let me say something to make player 1 mad again.

Sony sucks and will die this generation, nintendo will live with the immortality of a god.

[Phades]

So, the 00' are?.. Paying more for games that have weaker storylines, quicker gameplay, no imagination at all and the only thing that makes them better then 90' games is better graphics?

Don't get me wrong, I love my HD, but when games are paper thin and I keep on finding myself playing 5 year old games on my 46" DLP tv (ugly jaggies and all) and have a better time doing so.. something is wrong with todays games.

But thats just how I feel about games. Some people are happy with thier shinny fluffy bullshit watered out HDTV games for $60. I like saving money and playing games that have real meat to it.

What do you feel are these superior games from the 90's? I want to know the ones with the great storylines because I just haven't seen it. Games with good storylines are few and far between.

[Phades]

It’s disappointing that the regular Nintendo fans have come out with torches to burn Player 1 for making a comment about folks like TrainwreckX who is clearly the one he was talking about in his second post when talking about comparisons to religious faith. Unless you think that you’re a crazed Nintendo fan I’m not sure why anybody would take offense at the comment that Nintendo spawns in some people a religious fervor that abandons logic. Cuz it does. So does Sony and Microsoft, there are just a much larger group of people who feel that way about Nintendo because they grew up with the big N.

His first post was more about the wording of RMan’s response to Zeal and what underlying culture results in that kind of discussion. Zeal’s comments I see as his opinion, stated just as he thinks it without any attempt to start a discussion. I don’t think he’s trying to get attention, he’s just flatly stating what he thinks without any elaboration, which pisses people off and gets responses like RMan's, who understandably didn't feel the need to try to engage the guy.

For TrainwreckX, I don’t think he’s a bad guy or anything, he just has so clearly bought into the parts that he likes of what Nintendo is saying that he starts to ignore the pieces that don’t fit, like the DVD playback and the appeal to a wide group of gamers. He’s got a picture of what he wants Nintendo to be, designing their system around hardcore gamers, only thinking about games when making their system, etc. I think he should look at the benefits of the ways that the other companies are doing things, to games and to the industry. Sony grew gaming with the PS2, they didn’t do a lot for multimedia, but they did a lot for gaming in the last 10 years, and it’s clearly not all bad because there are some really good games that came about from their model.

Likening him to a religious fanatic ain’t really a good way to start off a dialog about those things, but Trainwreck’s weren’t well thought through opinions. You have to know that people who are pissed off about what they think you said aren’t going to go back with a clear head and try to figure it out. It’s the internet after all. They’ll just assume that their first impression was right and demand that you prove them wrong in subsequent posts. Saying to them ‘you guys suck, that’s not what I said, go read my damn posts.’ isn’t going to solve anything.

Good post. I agree with you pretty much completely.

[mister_slim]

I just did. Did you miss it?

I suppose that the GBA Video cartridges that Nintendo and Majesco developed and released several months before the PSP was launched is a demonstration of how Nintendo hates multimedia functions?

[LogainAblar]

I loved the NES. Great titles and was a cultural phenomenon.
I loved the SNES. Better graphics, legendary RPGs.
I liked the N64. Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were great social games.
I was disappointed with the GameCube. Besides Mario, where's the games?

I absolutely agree. The early consoles were just too awesome.

But that's beside the point. I played Wind Waker at a friend's house, and was profoundly unimpressed. Considering I never had any real love for Metroid, didn't like Super smash melee as much as the 64 version, and got tired of Mario games a while back, I did not feel compelled to buy a GameCube.

Most of my friends who grew up on Nintendo consoles haven't bought a GameCube and think the Rev controller looks retarded. And I'm inclined to agree. It's not at all a matter of fanboyism, just an objective look at the software (in the case of the GameCube) and the radical design of the Rev remote. I understand Nintendo's logic with the remote design, but I believe it is entirely misconstrued.

Besides, can you imagine how uncomfortable it would to hold that thing at an angle for a prolonged period of time? My wrist hurts just thinking about it.

I really want Nintendo to do well, but I can't help but think they're shooting themselves in the foot.

[RMan]

His first post was more about the wording of RMan’s response to Zeal and what underlying culture results in that kind of discussion. Zeal’s comments I see as his opinion, stated just as he thinks it without any attempt to start a discussion.
I overlooked that post, didn't even notice my name in it, but I would like to know, how on earth do you think his statement of Nintendo not being a player in the console industry as benign? He said Nintendo has no home in the console industry, and somehow you think that’s not an invite for flame or discussion? Perhaps I shouldn’t have bothered to take the bait, but that’s what it was, and my response summed up the silliness of his bias towards Nintendo.

[RMan]

And when a high-priest of the cult of Nintendo speaks, the followers believe every word uttered without question.
Hehe, if that's directed at me, gee, thanks :). Perhaps some listen without questioning, but many others listen because I and other fans of the Revolution make sense, and if you want to discuss something with logic, then have at it, I'm always up for that. These generic statements of blind Nintendo following is just as silly as the blind faith you’re accusing people of, as well as the baseless Nintendo bashing seen here as well. And for the record, I hated Nintendo after the N64, I have not purchased a gamecube but did buy a PS2 and Xbox, and the ONLY reason I like Nintendo now is because so far, they’re saying all the right things to me, and seem to be doing almost all the right things with the Revolution. If Sony or MS were doing that, then they would get my support, because until now, Nintendo was getting no support from me. I’m as far from a blind Nintendo follower as you can get, I’m following them now because my eyes are wide open.

[Achilles]

I overlooked that post, didn't even notice my name in it, but I would like to know, how on earth do you think his statement of Nintendo not being a player in the console industry as benign? He said Nintendo has no home in the console industry, and somehow you think that’s not an invite for flame or discussion? Perhaps I shouldn’t have bothered to take the bait, but that’s what it was, and my response summed up the silliness of his bias towards Nintendo.Well if he wanted a discussion he would have made a case, then he would have followed your response up with other comments.

I also didn’t call his statement benign, of course people are going to disagree with it, that’s just not why he posted it I don’t think. Don't worry, Nintendo will always have a place to call home.
Just not in the console industry.Which means that even if their console fails, which he thinks it will, they’ll still keep making handhelds, or make 3rd party games for a different system. His first post wasn’t a discussion either, it was “Time to accept reality.” There’s no discussion there unless you want to try to convince him that Nintendo will not fail with the Revolution, and it’s Zeal, everyone knows what he thinks about it. He’s just sayin’ what he thinks, kinda like the guy who will come into a WW2 FPS thread and go “They should stop making these.” That’s my take on it anyway.

[RMan]

Well if he wanted a discussion he would have made a case, then he would have followed your response up with other comments.
Umm, this is a public discussion area, if he didn't want to have a discussion, he shouldn't be here. If he just wanted to make a statement like this he could do it on his own webspace where nobody would respond to (or read) his comments. If you don't expect to get booed, don't step on stage and spout inflammatory stuff, it's not rocket science. By your logic, we shouldn’t make responses to any comment.
I also didn’t call his statement benign, of course people are going to disagree with it, that’s just not why he posted it I don’t think.
Well, if it was Microsoft instead of Nintendo he was talking about, I’m sure you’d think differently. Honestly, if I said …

“Don't worry, Microsoft will always have a place to call home.
Just not in the console industry.”

You’re honestly telling me you would not think that was flame-bait? I, of course, wouldn’t say that because ultimately MS will win, but still, this would clearly be flame-bait.

[Achilles]

By your logic, we shouldn’t make responses to any comment.What logic is that again? Someone accused him of being an attention whore and that's why he posts flame bait. I said he probably doesn't care and he's just posting what he thinks. I said you understandably didn't feel the need to engage him, meaning your response wasn't a constructed argument, it was a short response to basically mock his flame. I'm not sure what you're getting at with this, if I'm wrong and you were trying to engage Zeal in an actual discussion than just say so.

Now you think I'm saying you shouldn't respond to Zeal? This is a pretty good example of the lack of trying to understand stuff.

[RMan]

Now you think I'm saying you shouldn't respond to Zeal?
I said his comment was an invite for flame or discussion, and you said "Well if he wanted a discussion he would have made a case, then he would have followed your response up with other comments." If this was not criteria I should follow for making a response, then try to explain again what you were trying to say (my patience is growing thin, as this is becomming boring and pointless).