XBox 360 vs PS3 : It's the Disc, Dummy!

[Vandenh]

According to an article (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/12/06/xbox360_vs_ps3/) on El Reg, the upcoming battle of the next gen consoles is all about storage and getting some kind of media device into your home.

If consumers don't opt for Blu-Ray, Sony is in real trouble. In effect, its console is a Trojan horse, like Microsoft's. Microsoft want an Xbox 360 in your living room, talking to the PC in your office. Sony, on the other hand, want a PS3 so that Blu-Ray is a success. Without PS3, without Blu-Ray, Sony looks like a very weak, financially ailing company past its innovative best.
So it is gonna be Bluray vs Online/PC connectivity? An interesting view at least, but of course they forget about the games and the developer support.

[NoName]

I think Microsoft has a lot more interest in games and their online service with the xbox360 than having it connect to a Windows Vista computer (I know it connects to XP Media center, but only so many people have that...).

Sony, on the other hand, I think half the reason the PS3 is coming out is to pimp out the their new drive format. They've even come out and said it directly...

Nintendo's evil plan, on the other hand, is to get more people playing games. I think I'm going to go with Nintendo (... and a 360 after the price drop :D).

[CapnAJ]

It's all about the games and not some pointless brand loyalty.

[bean19]

This author surprises me with his lack of knowledge. This is a professional writer?

Here are some discrepancies:

1. Xbox Live and the Marketplace are a nice sideline. A very nice sideline really, but this isn't by any means what they are banking on to make money. There are only so many little games, themes, and other fluff that people will buy. The hard-drive is not large enough to hold several games.

2. The author does correctly mention Blu-Ray in connection to Sony ONLY with HD movies, instead of games. Due to the low data transfer rate of Blu-Ray discs, it is unlikely that game developers will use Blu-Ray for any software development, and will use DVD instead. However, he doesn't mention this fact. This seems important to an article that is comparing data storage. . . the fact that they will both use the same data storage for most games.

3. Are there any games on DVD (not CD) that require more than one disc? Yeah. . . a tiny handful. The X360 and the PS3 will no doubt have more of these as games get larger, but how difficult is it to switch between DVDs once or twice within the length of a huge game. Back with VHS, we used to have to do this with really long movies once about every 2 hours. With games it will be like once every 10 to 20 hours. Heaven forbid!

Also, a shortage means that Microsoft won't cash in with holiday buyers for certain, and thus makes their getting to the market early less useful, but it doesn't prove one way or the other that Microsoft's launch was poor. Also, he mentions poor reviews of the games. . . but let's give that a looksee.

According to Gametab, these are the ratings X360 launch titles are receiving:

[91%] Call of Duty 2
[90%] Project Gotham Racing 3
[87%] Perfect Dark Zero
[83%] Need for Speed Most Wanted
[82%] NBA 2K6
[80%] Peter Jackson's King Kong
[80%] Tony Hawk's American Wasteland
[80%] Condemned: Criminal Origins
[77%] Kameo
[77%] Gun
[77%] Ridge Racer 6
[74%] Quake 4
[74%] Madden NFL 06
[71%] Amped 3
[71%] Tiger Woods PGA Tour 06
[62%] NBA Live 06

2 Superbs
6 Greats
7 Goods
And One Fair

Also, the ratings are higher if you go to Gamespot. I used Gametab because it is an average of different reviews, but they really need to look at the sites they gather data from. . . their average is much less helpful to me since they use such bad reviews. For instance, right off I can tell you that Tony Hawk is close to a B, but should probably be a high C, and that Kameo deserves to be a very high B. . . definitely not a C.

This writer just did such a bad job with this story. . . Oh well.

[KidCactus]

Due to the low data transfer rate of Blu-Ray discs

The disc itself is not in any way limited to low data transfer rate. The rate is limited by the hardware reading the disc.

[bapenguin]

1. Xbox Live and the Marketplace are a nice sideline. A very nice sideline really, but this isn't by any means what they are banking on to make money. There are only so many little games, themes, and other fluff that people will buy. The hard-drive is not large enough to hold several games.


I don't know man...every game I've download from Live Arcade has been less than 50 megabytes. You can fit quite a few of them on that hard drive.

Unless you mean not large enough to hold full fledged titles...well yeah...but I don't think it was meant to.

[Reanimated]

Blu Ray is dead in the water. The HDMI requirement is what kills it. How many HDTVs have been sold in the US? Now what FRACTION of those HDTVs actually have HDMI inputs?

It's a miniscule market at best. Sony might sell 100 billion PS3s, but it won't mean shit for the Blu Ray market. That market will be dictated by the number of HDTVs with HDMI that are in consumer's homes.

This gen will be over before Blu Ray ever has a chance... and by then, I think you're going to start seeing the pure digital content switch. Bottom line is that Blu Ray is a non-factor in the console space.

[bean19]

Unless you mean not large enough to hold full fledged titles...well yeah...but I don't think it was meant to.

Yeah, totally. That's what I mean, and I agree that they aren't intended for large "next gen" games.

However, the author of this article implies that the X360 is planning digital distribution vs. Sony's Blu-Ray for HD movies.

Did you read the linked article? it is really bad, and not just in this particular.

[motor]

If Microsoft turns around and sells a 300 gig hard-drive next year and starts pre-loading larger games I think you could see a real change in how distribution works. I think right now there is a informal rule that arcade games must fit on a mmu, but I'm sure that will start to break down in the near future. Once Microsoft has a largeenough installed base it will be really interesting, could you imaging microsoft going to eb and say, "look we want $10 more bucks per game back from you, we'll give half to the publisher to make them want to develop for the 360 more and half for our bank account. oh you don't want to do that? Maybe we'll distribute Halo 3 online next xmas..." I'm sure they won't do that, but the threat is growing. I've been a huge fan of xbox arcade since it's inception, with smart generated content, a hard-drive and couple of dozen megs for the executable size you could make some really impressive things (imaging a rogue-like game with procedurally generated textures, which are what takes up a majority of the space on you dvd). If I didn't have a wife and kids to feed I might very well quit my day-job and start up an xbox live arcade shop.

[TrackZero]

Blu Ray is dead in the water. The HDMI requirement is what kills it. How many HDTVs have been sold in the US? Now what FRACTION of those HDTVs actually have HDMI inputs?

It's a miniscule market at best. Sony might sell 100 billion PS3s, but it won't mean shit for the Blu Ray market. That market will be dictated by the number of HDTVs with HDMI that are in consumer's homes.

This gen will be over before Blu Ray ever has a chance... and by then, I think you're going to start seeing the pure digital content switch. Bottom line is that Blu Ray is a non-factor in the console space.

Exactly. And with the announcement of the holographic discs in the works, it really steals the thunder from blu-rays promise. It's another incremental media change that isn't necessary at this point. If a game requires multiple DVDs this gen, guess what, we can live with it.

[KhitomerRouge]

Blu Ray is dead in the water. The HDMI requirement is what kills it. How many HDTVs have been sold in the US? Now what FRACTION of those HDTVs actually have HDMI inputs? Blu-Ray is not HDMI-only. In fact, the only HDMI-related announcement is from the HD-DVD camp, who indicated they would downrez from HD (720p/1080i/1080p) to DVD (480p) over non-HDMI connections. Even then, it was on a studio-to-studio basis. Fox has already said they would not do this.

It's a miniscule market at best. Sony might sell 100 billion PS3s, but it won't mean shit for the Blu Ray market. That market will be dictated by the number of HDTVs with HDMI that are in consumer's homes. See above regarding HDMI. Also, while Blu-Ray may appeal to a niche market, it's still pretty large. The HT crowd is all worked up about it, and I can't see how the PS3 having Blu-Ray would actually hurt it's acceptance for those who aren't HT freaks. If just 1/4 of the TV sets in the US are HDTVs, then that's almost 50 million ready for next-gen optical discs.

This gen will be over before Blu Ray ever has a chance... and by then, I think you're going to start seeing the pure digital content switch.From what? Holographic discs, which aren't even ready for widespread testing until 2007 at the earliest? And no one's buying into Bill Gates' "everything will be on hard discs" mantra either.

[XenonCJ]

It's not about the disks at all... It's about what's ON those disks...

Plus any cross-platform developer is going to design for the lowest common denominator. I doublt they'll be making games that are Blue-Ray here, then DVD there, and whatnot...

[XenonCJ]

From what? Holographic discs, which aren't even ready for widespread testing until 2007 at the earliest? And no one's buying into Bill Gates' "everything will be on hard discs" mantra either.The future format is not Blu-Ray or HDDVD, or holographic... It is NO FORMAT. Everything will be downloaded from corporate servers... If you don't believe me, just look at the iPod and the success of iTunes. It's only going to scale up from there. Games, movies, TV shows, it's practically here already.

[TrackZero]

Blu-Ray is not HDMI-only. In fact, the only HDMI-related announcement is from the HD-DVD camp, who indicated they would downrez from HD (720p/1080i/1080p) to DVD (480p) over non-HDMI connections. Even then, it was on a studio-to-studio basis. Fox has already said they would not do this.

Nice, so the "Standard" isn't really a standard then. Any studio can screw over your quality. Great stuff.


See above regarding HDMI. Also, while Blu-Ray may appeal to a niche market, it's still pretty large. The HT crowd is all worked up about it, and I can't see how the PS3 having Blu-Ray would actually hurt it's acceptance for those who aren't HT freaks. If just 1/4 of the TV sets in the US are HDTVs, then that's almost 50 million ready for next-gen optical discs.

Then of that 50 million, how many are going to drop $500+ on a PS3 and the increased game prices that come with the new format? Not to mention the fact that the console itself may lemon out, with developers being scared away from the high costs of the platform and the lack of a proper online gaming interface. It may go either way though, you're right, many will see blu-ray as a feature and want to re-buy all their movies in yet another format.


From what? Holographic discs, which aren't even ready for widespread testing until 2007 at the earliest? And no one's buying into Bill Gates' "everything will be on hard discs" mantra either.

Well considering the PS3 is only launching in 2006 and the size difference between blu-ray to the terrabyte holographic discs is insane, I'd say it's easily worth it to wait 3-4 years rather than waste time on another format in between. DVDs easily have another 4-5 years left in them.

[TrackZero]

The future format is not Blu-Ray or HDDVD, or holographic... It is NO FORMAT. Everything will be downloaded from corporate servers... If you don't believe me, just look at the iPod and the success of iTunes. It's only going to scale up from there. Games, movies, TV shows, it's practically here already.

Shhhh, don't let out the secret.

[Xerxes]

Damn I almost forgot about Holographic storage. They started talking about that severeal years ago...

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

Nice, so the "Standard" isn't really a standard then. Any studio can screw over your quality. Great stuff.

At least it's preferable to HD DVD, which requires HDMI input for HD. So far Warner Bros. is the only studio that has indicated they want HDMI-only for Blu-ray. I doubt it'll be an issue by the time the format actually launches.

Well considering the PS3 is only launching in 2006 and the size difference between blu-ray to the terrabyte holographic discs is insane, I'd say it's easily worth it to wait 3-4 years rather than waste time on another format in between.

The only consumer-level holographic discs coming out in the immediate future have a whopping 5 GB per layer advantage over Blu-ray. Even uber-expensive professional-level holographic storage currently tops out at 300 GB, which is impressive but not enough to force the studios and the hardware companies to simply write off the millions they've already invested in the next-gen optical formats. 3-4 years is ridiculously optimistic -- the 1 TB+ holographic discs are probably a or so decade off from becoming a viable consumer format. And of course we'll have to go through another format war first, since there's at least three different companies trying to commercialize this technology.

[TrackZero]

The only consumer-level holographic discs coming out in the immediate future have a whopping 5 GB per layer advantage over Blu-ray.

Ummm...nope. Maybe you missed this story which was posted last week.

http://biz.gamedaily.com/features.asp?article_id=11193&section=feature&email=

"The two major players in this emerging holographic storage field are InPhase Technologies (an American company) and Japanese firm Optware Corp. Optware recently opened a U.S. branch and intends to launch 200GB HVD drives by the end of 2006; by 2008, the company is aiming to hit the 1TB mark. InPhase also plans on shipping its own 200GB drives by the end of next year. The company has partnered with Hitachi Maxell Ltd. to market the new technology."

[Xerxes]

Ain't Hitachi apart of HD-DVD as well?

[Mason]

This is a stupid article. Each company is trying to define the ground on which the console battle will be fought. Sony wants it to be a disc format battle. Microsoft wants it to be a connectivity battle. Nintendo wants it to be a battle over game innovation. So simply declaring that "it's the discs, stupid" is buying into one storyline while ignoring two others.

As a gamer, storage doesn't excite me, particularly when the only thing games need it for is more FMVs. Connectivity is exciting, and innovation is exciting.

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

"The two major players in this emerging holographic storage field are InPhase Technologies (an American company) and Japanese firm Optware Corp. Optware recently opened a U.S. branch and intends to launch 200GB HVD drives by the end of 2006; by 2008, the company is aiming to hit the 1TB mark. InPhase also plans on shipping its own 200GB drives by the end of next year. The company has partnered with Hitachi Maxell Ltd. to market the new technology."

From that exact same article:

Both InPhase and Optware are currently targeting the market from an archival perspective—for example, it would be entirely possible to store whole movie libraries on just one disk. However, for the consumer market the companies also are working on developing disks that would be less than half the physical size of DVDs but could hold around 30GB.

That's the only consumer-level holographic format anyone's talking about at this point and it's not a particularly dramatic improvement. The larger-capacity discs and drives are aimed squarely at the professional sector. For example, the 300GB InPhase drives will retail for about $15,000 (http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=14643&hed=Holographic+Challenge+for+DVDs), with the discs costing $120 each. They're not counting on 1.6TB discs until 2010 (http://www.digi-help.com/pub/holographic-video-disc.asp), and even then they're expected to cost about $100 a pop. That's not a mass-market product by any stretch of the imagination.

[Reanimated]

Actually Blu Ray IS HDMI only. Sony has already announced this. Both HD formats are going this route for copy protection reasons. They need a pure digital link in order to run their copy protection schemes.

SO, my original point stands, and all of your little subpoints fall by the wayside.

[KhitomerRouge]

Actually Blu Ray IS HDMI only. Sony has already announced this. Both HD formats are going this route for copy protection reasons. They need a pure digital link in order to run their copy protection schemes.

SO, my original point stands, and all of your little subpoints fall by the wayside.
Please, show me the evidence of this. I've read reports specifically mentioning that analog connections (i.e. component, VGA) may be used, and furthermore will most likely not be subject to downrezzing to 480p. I assume the unnamed copy-protection you mention is AACS, which has that capability, but it is not mandatory. As I said before, it's on a studio-by-studio basis. Maybe Sony Pictures announced no HD over HDMI, but not Sony Electronics. Different companies, people! They have no control over what other studios or consumer electronics companies do outside of the licensing.

ETA: All of the Windows Vista OPM-PVP crap is a separate issue entirely, and related only to BD-ROMs in PCs. That's Microsoft's way of appealing to the highest security needs regardless of whether the disc or drive implements it.