Gaming Degrees Stealing America's Education

[Lshink]

According to GamePolitics (http://www.gamepolitics.com/), Ted Rueter, a political science professor at DePauw University, says schools that offer gaming degrees are stealing America's Education. To quote GP: Rueter sees college video game design programs as "yet another sign of the coming of the apocalypse. Schools of higher learning are simply cashing in on a fad that is destructive to society."

[teh_bear]

i have to say that i kind of agree with him. On the "cashing in on a fad" part that is, not the "destructive to society" or "coming of the apocalypse" ones.

[The Letter 3]

What are the other signs of the apocalypse? Film, television, music, theatre, and literature?
*Readies Bonfire*
Come burn your vices, ye sinners, before ye find yerself in hell!

[XxSATANxX]

What are the other signs of the apocalypse? Film, television, music, theatre, and literature?
*Readies Bonfire*
Come burn your vices, ye sinners, before ye find yerself in hell!

Poly Sci fag profs spouting off!

[FyrionX]

Hey, I'm a poli sci major. We rock.

I must agrew with him, however, colleges are trying to cash in on the video game craze and people majoring in these programs are not actually learning what they should be learning and will not get very far in the real world.

[JazGalaxy]

I have to completely agree with him. I'm a graphic design major and I can't tell you how many craptacular artist we have in my classes who are in the "videogame design" track. The majority of them are just kids who like playing games and think they're going to be paid for it.

I just showed an internship to a kid in one of my classes for an anime company here in town. He was like "thanks! I'll definately check into this! I have a bunch of charachters I want to show them, but I have to get them all copyrighted first." I was left just kind of blinking at how completely off the mark that was as far as the industry goes. And this kid wants to design video game charachters for a living.

I just think so many of these programs are jokes. A typical class day in our program (I work in the lab across the hallway so I hear them all) offers no more insight into the industry than a typical day on the evil avatar forums.

[ohnam]

Hey, I'm a poli sci major. We rock.

I must agrew with him, however, colleges are trying to cash in on the video game craze and people majoring in these programs are not actually learning what they should be learning and will not get very far in the real world.


Wasn't there a joke about poly sci majors that I heard when I was getting my BS in Comp Sci. It went something like:

The graduate with a Science degree asks, "Why does it work?"

The graduate with an Engineering degree asks, "How does it work?"

The graduate with an Accounting degree asks, "How much will it cost?"

The graduate with a Poly sci degree asks, "Do you want fries with that?"

[TheKeck]

Wasn't there a joke about poly sci majors that I heard when I was getting my BS in Comp Sci. It went something like:

The graduate with a Science degree asks, "Why does it work?"

The graduate with an Engineering degree asks, "How does it work?"

The graduate with an Accounting degree asks, "How much will it cost?"

The graduate with a Poly sci degree asks, "Do you want fries with that?"

HA HA HA HA!!!!

One of my best friends is a Poly Sci grad. He became really interested in internet marketing and is making a career out of it. (AKA: nothing to do with his major)

[51|RandoM]

The type of degree you get nowadays means jack shit in many industries. They don't care what your degree is, they care that you've shown you could stick with the plan for four or more years and get something accomplished.

If I were going to start pointing the finger at degrees that are sucking the lifeblood out of the country, I think I'd start looking at law schools first.

At least somebody with a videogame programming degree will produce something. Don't ge me wrong, I'm aware of many professions besides lawyer that a law degree favors, and I'm not down on them.

[RandomViolence]

HA HA HA HA!!!!

One of my best friends is a Poly Sci grad. He became really interested in internet marketing and is making a career out of it. (AKA: nothing to do with his major)

You fuckers making fun of Poli Sci degrees could at least spell the fucking thing right. :(

The type of degree you get nowadays means jack shit in many industries. They don't care what your degree is, they care that you've shown you could stick with the plan for four or more years and get something accomplished.

If I were going to start pointing the finger at degrees that are sucking the lifeblood out of the country, I think I'd start looking at law schools first.

At least somebody with a videogame programming degree will produce something. Don't ge me wrong, I'm aware of many professions besides lawyer that a law degree favors, and I'm not down on them.

*Cries as he goes to law school next year.* :(

TheKeck, I think you are now my mortal enemy.

Edit: Corrected author of second quote.

[DeadPixel]

The type of degree you get nowadays means jack shit in many industries. They don't care what your degree is, they care that you've shown you could stick with the plan for four or more years and get something accomplished.
I couldn't agree more with this comment. Although I might add a small bit.

I have no college degree and I'm almost 30. I dropped out my 2nd year, lured away by those pesky recruiters back in the mid 90s. I've had several full time and contract positions by now and not a single one of them ever asked me about my college education. Every one of them listed BA/BS as a requirement, yet all of hiring managers were just fine with the real work experience I offered. Just remember, they are looking for skills not your records of passing college tests. Just as RandomM stated, they want to see proven responsibility so they can trust you with whatever project.

All of my jobs have been IT and programming oriented. I'm sure in management or just in other fields you may need a pretty paper. After many years of trying to get back to finishing my degree, I just accepted the fact that I will do fine without one.

[Heretic Machine]

Oh whatever. Universities no longer have -any- interest in educating their students, and frequently employee proffessors who refuse to teach their classes with any sufficency because they consider theirselves to be too "good" to teach. My college is raising tuition fees and generally screwing students in every way right now just so they can be a top 20 research university.

This guy can go fuck himself, along with anyone else who would claim that universities in this country are about anything but making money by selling cheap pieces of paper at 50K a pop.

[TheKeck]

You fuckers making fun of Poli Sci degrees could at least spell the fucking thing right. :(



*Cries as he goes to law school next year.* :(

TheKeck, I think you are now my mortal enemy.

I'll spell Poly how I like, thanks. :p

BUT... that second quote wasn't me!!!!!! Why am I your mortal enemy?!!!

[MagicAlex]

Why is it that every critic about gaming focuses on violence? That's all I ever read about in these articles, and yet I see an completely different problem with games that nobody ever bothers to mention: They're an addicition! I don't think getting a degree in Game Design is stealing education the way that Rueter claims. It's stealing education because kids are thinking about playing games instead of making them. And I'd would guess that taking classes where you think about games all the time doesn't make it any easier to think about anything else, especially if you're an ADD kid like me.

[Mason]

DePauw University sure seems to pride itself on its music and athletics. You know, the foundation of any society. 130 on-campus music events a year and 37 conference championships in the past 7 years? Now those are priorities.

I agree that most university game programs shouldn't exist, though. The Guildhall at SMU is the only worthwhile program I've heard of, because it was designed by a bunch of industry big-wigs.

But if this guy is concerned about the decay of academia, why hasn't he noticed the rate at which business school components are devouring their host universities?

[motor]

It's a real shame that many colleges are trying to milk game design to get some quick cash, unfortunately most "professional" schools in colleges have very little to do with what you are really suppose to be doing in college. Schools of education are a great example of a professional school associated with many colleges that have really lost all meaning as anything but a certification program.

What's especially sad about it, is that like many things, a great ciriculum (please excuse any mispellings) could be built around the subject. The best game designers I've worked with are ones that have a firm understanding of everything from literature to logic to game theory to art. You think it's easy to balance a game like civ 4 or starcraft? Let me tell you, it isn't. It requires a strong understanding of math to even approach the problem the right way. And if you spend 4 years studying game design there is no excuse for you not to have several classes in the other two fields involved in making a game (programming and art) as well.

[Steve_Erhardt]

Hey, I'm a poli sci major. We rock.

I must agrew with him, however, colleges are trying to cash in on the video game craze and people majoring in these programs are not actually learning what they should be learning and will not get very far in the real world.
I dunno. You really think many of them were on track to become doctors or scientists before they were lured away by the insidious siren song of game design?

[Murat]

Never thought I would see my school mentioned in the same line as gaming outside of the actual campus. How surreal. Must be a new prof though, he wasn't there when I graduated.

I do have to agree that at least at this point that videogames aren't something that should be something that leads to a major in college, but I am sure that many people had the same thing about American Literature a couple hundred years ago or some of the more recent culturl studies courses when they came out. Then again I don't see video games being something that necessarily changes our world for the better either. Maybe that will be different in the future, who knows. I'm sure though that the majority of these majors are probably in a CS field, I hope, and therefore are preparing someone for as specific a field of work as CAD or medical software.

[Morrolan]

"Higher" education is one of the most corrupt, dishonest, horse-fucking industries on the planet. That's right, I said it: University officials (see: not profs, or researchers or that sort, necessarily,) are horse-fuckers, and I hate them.

Therefore, it shouldn't surprise this guy that universities are cashing in on the video-game craze. For that to be surprising, university higher-ups would have to have SOULS, which they obviously do not. If a do-it-yourself abortion major would attract a lot of students, they would damn well offer that, I guarantee it. They'd offer it, all the while piling on hundreds of dollars of unjustifiable fees, charging extortionate rates for text-books, invalidating past course credits, and basically fucking horses all day long.

Oopse, did that sound bitter? :)

PS: This guy would have had a good point, were he not a jackass. His comment on the cashing-in is valid (though painfully obvious,) but his "I AM OLD!" opinion of games identifies him as a bonafied moron, regardless.

[Madhatter45]

[QUOTE=Mason]

I agree that most university game programs shouldn't exist, though. The Guildhall at SMU is the only worthwhile program I've heard of, because it was designed by a bunch of industry big-wigs.
QUOTE]


Uh...ever hear of Digipen? That shit's practicly run by Nintendo.

[TrackZero]

"yet another sign of the coming of the apocalypse. Schools of higher learning are simply cashing in on a fad that is destructive to society."

Guess what. They did the same thing for the entire IT field a few years ago. I can't count the number of people I went to school with who had no real interest in computers at all, just a big fat paycheque. Many ended up in completely different fields afterwards, as the bubble burst not a few months after our program finished.

[RandomViolence]

I'll spell Poly how I like, thanks. :p

BUT... that second quote wasn't me!!!!!! Why am I your mortal enemy?!!!

I stand corrected. My cut-and-pasting was off. :eek: 51|Random is now the asshole (to me) :p, but you are the enemy.

[The Letter 3]

Is this about the article or bashing various college degree programs (or higher education itself)?

You kids want something to bash? I'm a Secondary English Education major. Have fun with that.

Anyway, to get to the article, game design degree programs are still in their infancy, thus why they lack respect. If gaming is here to stay, then one day gaming will be a respected art/entertainment medium and nearly every university will carry a degree program in game design. It just takes time.

[Schnoogs]

I couldn't agree more with this comment. Although I might add a small bit.

I have no college degree and I'm almost 30. I dropped out my 2nd year, lured away by those pesky recruiters back in the mid 90s. I've had several full time and contract positions by now and not a single one of them ever asked me about my college education. Every one of them listed BA/BS as a requirement, yet all of hiring managers were just fine with the real work experience I offered. Just remember, they are looking for skills not your records of passing college tests. Just as RandomM stated, they want to see proven responsibility so they can trust you with whatever project.

All of my jobs have been IT and programming oriented. I'm sure in management or just in other fields you may need a pretty paper. After many years of trying to get back to finishing my degree, I just accepted the fact that I will do fine without one.


Couldnt be more WRONG.

My friends, who do the same work as I do but don't have my Masters in Computer Science, get paid considerably less. It's all about the degrees.

As more and more work in my field gets outsourced my Masters equals job security. I work for a Fortune 500 company and you can rule out ever being a manager if you don't have either a BS or Masters.

It's the cold hard truth.

[Carnisaur]

This guy is obviously being a little too critical, but he makes some valid points.

I see a disgusting amount of commericials on TV for technnical colleges with "real world" game design degrees that really teach you nothing and are useless in netting a job.

Interest in game design careers is a fad and many colleges are suckering people into paying for a garbage education. Makes me glad I attend a public university.

[The_Darr]

I have to completely agree with him. I'm a graphic design major and I can't tell you how many craptacular artist we have in my classes who are in the "videogame design" track. The majority of them are just kids who like playing games and think they're going to be paid for it.

I just showed an internship to a kid in one of my classes for an anime company here in town. He was like "thanks! I'll definately check into this! I have a bunch of charachters I want to show them, but I have to get them all copyrighted first." I was left just kind of blinking at how completely off the mark that was as far as the industry goes. And this kid wants to design video game charachters for a living.

I just think so many of these programs are jokes. A typical class day in our program (I work in the lab across the hallway so I hear them all) offers no more insight into the industry than a typical day on the evil avatar forums.

i was in that field as well and i couldnt have said that better myself. fucking SPOT ON. honestly, its a big part of why i decided against said degree.

[Heretic Machine]

Interest in game design careers is a fad and many colleges are suckering people into paying for a garbage education.

...Please point me to a program at any large university that isn't a "garbage education."

[UnderHero5]

All I'm going to say is this...
If people can get a degree in film making... then people should be able to get a degree in videogame making.

It's an entertainment industry, after all. As time passes it becomes more and more like the film industry.

I personally would never persue a career in gaming, even if it's been my main hobby for half my life and I have all these great ideas for games.

I think someone who has created a few mods would have a better chance at a gaming career than someone with a "videogame degree".... but there's no reason they shouldn't have the option to get said degree. It has to start somewhere. I'm sure people laughed when degrees for film making were being introduced.

[DeadPixel]

Couldnt be more WRONG.

My friends, who do the same work as I do but don't have my Masters in Computer Science, get paid considerably less. It's all about the degrees.

As more and more work in my field gets outsourced my Masters equals job security. I work for a Fortune 500 company and you can rule out ever being a manager if you don't have either a BS or Masters.

It's the cold hard truth.
Well you can think that if you want. I've had jobs in Fortune 500 companies in the heart of San Francisco and I can tell you I know how much my team made. How did I know? I interviewed and hired them. Yes the kids with CS and Masters degrees. There are many of them, yet we always looked at the skillset first. Your friends get paid less cause they can't market themselves not because they have no Masters.

Besdies, did you even read my post before typing up yoru reply? I did say that Manager positions requrie BS degrees. Don't sweat it so much.

[Player 1]

Well, the attitude of the lastest industry critic is a joke. Videogames a fad? Hardly - they're here to stay and are the biggest and most succesful entertainment medium on the planet. Accept it.

Does he say that Media Studies are stealing education from those he'd rather see focusing on Econimics? Does it mean that Political Studies are stealing the education of those he'd rather see reading Greek and Latin? Should we all be getting degrees in coal mining instead of something current and up-to-date?

I don't believe colleges are cashing in - it's simple supply and demand. The world keeps changing and you have to change with it.

Of course, students following a single course of education and forsaking all others are likely to run a higher risk if they can't get that particular career going - they'll have little other skills to fall back on. However, that's a criticism of that mentality - it applies to any form of learning, not just learning about computers or programming.

[Opty]

Remember there's a difference between Game Design degreee which most of these places offer and Game Programming degrees that very few places offer. The difference is that "game design" is a worthless degree, meaning the schools offering it are obviously after a cash-grab. I can't think of any company, besides maybe a startup, that would hire a game developer straight out of college. You have to work your way up and prove yourself before you get to make decisions that affect a company's bottom line like that. The best thing a "game designer" off the street could possibly get is a job scripting levels and whatnot.

(The next part, I wish to warn in advance, is probably biased: I'm currently attending DigiPen)
DigiPen, though, teaches a programming degree, which I say is more useful than a design degree. Of course, there's people who hate DigiPen for many reasons. The school's first year or two of graduates were lackluster, so the school got some bad press with hiring agents who were around back then. If you take a look at the DigiPen games who were finalists in the 2005 Independent Games Festival (http://www.igf.com/2005entrants.shtml) and the games who are entered into this year's IGF (http://www.igf.com/2006entrants.shtml) you can see the quality's only gone up. Also note that these games were made while the students had 14 to 20 credit hours of classes to take care of as well. But even with all of that, our teachers still remind us that experience trumps a degree anyday. That proving your worth through IGF games, internships and/or personal networking can get you much more than a $50k piece of paper could, job wise. Like someone else mentioned, requesting for a BS in a job description is to scare away the kids who don't have one and don't have the experiece to understand that it's an empty requirement if you have remarkable skills.

[motor]

Remember there's a difference between Game Design degreee which most of these places offer and Game Programming degrees that very few places offer. The difference is that "game design" is a worthless degree, meaning the schools offering it are obviously after a cash-grab. I can't think of any company, besides maybe a startup, that would hire a game developer straight out of college. You have to work your way up and prove yourself before you get to make decisions that affect a company's bottom line like that. The best thing a "game designer" off the street could possibly get is a job scripting levels and whatnot.

...

I just wanted to second this statement. I can think of very few topics that are better then game development to hang a computer science/math degree off of. I've been in the industry for close to ten years now and I have used just about every type of "classic" data structure and algorithm that you learn during a good four year program as well as every bit of math I learned with the exception of abstract algebra. I've also used a good chunk of the two years of physics I took. Games are a great domain to teach computer science because they take advantage of so much of the work that has been done in the field (databases, ai, networking, data structures, searching and sorting, compiler design, graphics, optimization, big O notation) and they do it all in one concrete package where it does make a real-world difference if you use a bubble sort verses an insertion sort. Very few professions that use computer science use it to such a degree and for such good reason.

[cppcrusader]

Remember there's a difference between Game Design degreee which most of these places offer and Game Programming degrees that very few places offer. The difference is that "game design" is a worthless degree, meaning the schools offering it are obviously after a cash-grab. I can't think of any company, besides maybe a startup, that would hire a game developer straight out of college. You have to work your way up and prove yourself before you get to make decisions that affect a company's bottom line like that. The best thing a "game designer" off the street could possibly get is a job scripting levels and whatnot.



Oh you'd be surprised how many will hire someone right out of school. In fact, earlier this year Activision was at Full Sail interviewing many people. I know Tiburon has hired many straight out of school. Along with Raven, Midway, and Tilited Mill. I myself was hired straight out of school, though you may not consider what I do not the norm for videogames. I work in the serious games industry now, or as I always like to tell people, I make videogames for the military.

You are right about the difference in degrees. If you get just a design degree you're getting screwed, you need to have the development side as well. Yes, there are many schools trying to cash in on the recent game degree craze and those are the ones to stay away from. A game degree isn't any less valid than any other degree, nor do you get any less of education. You can get a game degree and be just as prepared for a job outside of the industry, in fact, I may be a testament to that. As long as you stick with an established school like Full Sail, DigiPen, or the Guildhall you'll come out with a good education.

[PantherModern]

I think the enrollement levels of these classes is just indicative of how much people are moving away from the classic office job. These students are trying to get a job that will be fun, not some droll position that exists solely to pay their mortgage. I'm in kind of the same boat. I draw indie comics with the hope that I can someday make enough money to live on that alone. To make money now, I work in a small office that I manage and design websites all day (which is still pretty fun). The idea of going to a job where I just crunch numbers and do nothing creative makes me sick to my stomach. I hate to see people get their hopes up for entering a very crowded market, but we all gotta have dreams.

[cppcrusader]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I know that was the case with me. I went from studying to be a band director to studying to be a game developer. If I had been forced to take your standard database programming job I would probably lose my mind inside of 6 months.

[IagoTheHunted]

Well I think this conversation has hit pretty directly on both sides of what's a pretty grey-area ethical issue with what schools are doing.

On the one hand: people should be able to pursue whatever career they want, schools need to keep up with demand, and like it or not universities are privately owned, so it's a buisness that needs to survive. No big problems there.

flip side: If a school offers a degree in game design and then caters to the "I want a fun job and don't want to work hard" attitude of it's students, or indeed if it's mearly incapable of providing an industry-applicable education (and if Nindendo's school was struggling than this is almost certainly the case in most instances). Than it's promiseing something it can't deliver on, is a scam, and should be flogged for takeing both money and educational potential away from it's students.

So I think what we're left with is a mixed market. There are a few good schools out there for this kind of thing and many many more that are a complete joke. When I say joke I mean it literally too... I've been working in the industry for a while, and y'know what we do when we see ads for game design schools? do we break out in a cold sweat because there's so much competition comeing down the pipe? Do we tout the merits of the educational establishment for helping to further the industry? Nope, we just laugh our heads off. Because we KNOW it's a joke, we know those grads have as much chance of getting a job with us as... well anyone else, which is near enough to 0 to make no odds. We've all seen the brutal bitter reality of prying your way into a competative industry and we weep for those who are nieve enough to think a hacked out 2 year degree is going to land them a job designing games.
There are exceptions though... I went to Ringling, which is a fantastic school, despite having no focus on video games. In fact that's a smart move for artists, learning game engines and tech isn't helpful because it's outdated in two years, you need to learn fundamentals. I imagine the same is true for programmers, you need a really solid fundamental education, not a half-assed one focused on games.

So in the end the truth is somehow both elusive and obvious: If you want to work in the industry you need to be GOOD. And when I say good I mean good on a professional level, which is brutal. If you can spend a week puting together something almost-as-good-as-whats-on-store-shelves we have a word for it: "crap". Anything but the best is crap. If you aren't good enough to do professional quality work on horrific deadlines than you aren't good enough. How you get there is up to you, but if your having fun and playing games alot at school than you're probably going to hit a brutal wakeup call as soon as you get out. I think that's always been true, there's just more misleading advertising now :P

[koconutmonkey]

Hey, I'm a poli sci major. We rock.

I must agrew with him, however, colleges are trying to cash in on the video game craze and people majoring in these programs are not actually learning what they should be learning and will not get very far in the real world.

Wow you sure are making a hell of an asumption that college actually teaches you how to deal with the real world, and that is a scary assumption. I grew up in a college town and I have seen the kinds of people that are able to get a degree. A college degree is worth so little now, unless it is from an ivy league college or their like.

I think the real problem is not the fact that they are offering these degrees, its that the whole college degree program in general are watered down, not just the gaming degrees.

[Tohoya]

Am I the only one that doesn't see a problem here?

Video Game design and programming is a specialized field that requires a good education. It's also something required to fill certain niches in the market. I don't see how teaching game design is the of the academic world any more than teaching about filming, or artistry, or musical composition.

[Hellstorm]

The game industry doesn't so much put stock in college degrees. As someone with game industry experiance, a company is more likely to hire the person that worked on ONE game in any capacity than someone with a degree right out of college, regular or game design.

School of life is sometimes more important than school.

[Bone]

Couldnt be more WRONG.

My friends, who do the same work as I do but don't have my Masters in Computer Science, get paid considerably less. It's all about the degrees.

As more and more work in my field gets outsourced my Masters equals job security. I work for a Fortune 500 company and you can rule out ever being a manager if you don't have either a BS or Masters.

It's the cold hard truth.
It's not the cold hard truth just because you say it is... I am 31 and left college my second year to pursue experience and, well, money. I've had 11 years of success and never have dealt professionally with bias towards my lack of a degree. You only get that from people who are jealous and/or insecure, who believe there is only one way to success and can't stand when people make their own path in the world.

As far as pay goes, you're just flat wrong about it being all about the degrees. Maybe where you work, but it's hardly a universal truth. I've been paid both more and less than degreed co-workers over my career. It often comes down to your skills, experience, how well you negotiate, the budgetary reality of the hiring company at that particular time, and a little bit of luck. Every hiring manager I've talked to is more interested in how good an applicant is for the job than anything else, and compensation is not dependent on a piece of paper.

Oh, and I work at a fortune 500 company and my manager also has no degree, nor do many of the managers. So now the other readers have two anecdotes to compare, but your cold hard truth just got a little warm and mushy.

[51|RandoM]

Couldnt be more WRONG.

My friends, who do the same work as I do but don't have my Masters in Computer Science, get paid considerably less. It's all about the degrees.

As more and more work in my field gets outsourced my Masters equals job security. I work for a Fortune 500 company and you can rule out ever being a manager if you don't have either a BS or Masters.

It's the cold hard truth.

Fortunately, I have no desire to ever be a manager. I much prefer being the top consultant, who coincidentally has a higher salary and less responsibility than any manager in the company. The only people who make out better are the CEO/CFO/CTO, etc. I don't begrudge them their compensation, either, since those jobs are pretty much 24x7.

I suppose a degree is a big help for people who have little or no talent in their chosen field of endeavor. Interestingly enough, that is how I'd classify most of the IT managers I've worked with. I've yet to run across one who was excellent at both management, and at the particular work his people did. Some industries, the differences in roles between managers and workers are much smaller, so I could see a worker thinking that becoming a manager was a good goal.

Personally, I can't make more money in the field than I do, even if I had a degree, at least not as an employee(vs. starting my own concern). I think you'll find that your cold hard truth, like many absolutes, doesn't apply to every situation.

[51|RandoM]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I know that was the case with me. I went from studying to be a band director to studying to be a game developer. If I had been forced to take your standard database programming job I would probably lose my mind inside of 6 months.

Database programming can be quite a bit of fun, if you're a) into it, and b) not stuck in a maintenance role. Schema design, performance tuning, disaster recovery, clustering, all sorts of interesting things to wrap your brain around.

You can't just settle for "well, it works".

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Oh whatever. Universities no longer have -any- interest in educating their students, and frequently employee proffessors who refuse to teach their classes with any sufficency because they consider theirselves to be too "good" to teach. My college is raising tuition fees and generally screwing students in every way right now just so they can be a top 20 research university.

This guy can go fuck himself, along with anyone else who would claim that universities in this country are about anything but making money by selling cheap pieces of paper at 50K a pop.


I hear you there. I go to UNL, considered a top research college, at least according to the school. All they care about is money. Tuition keeps going up and programs keep getting cut with no end in site. I'm leaving at the end of this semester for various reasons, but the lack of a focus on actual education is definitely one of them.

[IagoTheHunted]

It's not the cold hard truth just because you say it is... I am 31 and left college my second year to pursue experience and, well, money. I've had 11 years of success and never have dealt professionally with bias towards my lack of a degree. You only get that from people who are jealous and/or insecure, who believe there is only one way to success and can't stand when people make their own path in the world.

I agree, and lets not forget this thread is supposed to be about games industry jobs, where degrees matter even less... I talked with one hireing group who were looking through artists and they simply threw out the resume's without looking at them and then moved to the portfolio. Obviously not everyone does that but it gets at the heart of what good recruiters know: degrees don't mean your good, it just means you did those classes.