WAR Subscribers at 300k

[modeps]

Looks like that close to a million number that Mythic's Warhammer Online was touting at the beginning of November (http://evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69123) has shrunk just a tad... well, more than a tad. Massively is reporting that the subscriber base for this World of Warcraft competitor has plummeted to 300k.

We just learned courtesy of an eagle-eyed forum goer at VN that as of Q3 2008, Mythic Entertainment's Warhammer Online had over 300,000 accounts. There is an EA investor's call taking place shortly where CEO John Riticiello may elaborate on this, so we'll keep you posted. We'll also post our thoughts on this news tomorrow.

While certainly not anything to scoff at, it just goes to show that very little can stand up to WoW, specially when they are dropping a new expansion.

[MasterEvilAce]

WoW has immersion.. that's why it's such a monster.
WAR may be 'nicer' to play... but it just doesn't suck you in

[Sasori the Medic]

Not surprising really. 300,000 of those lost subscribers had Archmage mains I'm betting. That class has been totally fucked since beta.

[KidNicarus]

Pretenders get dealt with. I certainly don't think that WoW is perfect but at this point in time it is a cultural phenomenon. 11 million people play that game, large cities don't have that many people in them. I've been told that in terms of Pvp War was a superior game, but unless your offering a completely new experience theres no way to compete with the 800lb gorilla.

I wonder if the devs who were running their mouths a year ago saying that they were going to take down WoW are eating alot of crow at EA.

[Zeal]

played WAR and hated it. simply nowhere near as polished or engrossing as WoW. it'll suffer the same fate as every other MMO (save EVE Online, which is actually awesome) that directly challenges WoW.

[Gnomesbane]

There's just nothing innovative about WAR. I liked some of the class designs but the game was a serious grind and the much touted PvP wasn't all that great imo. Keep battles? what a joke. It's just a ton of people piling up on top of each other. Some of the battleground-type instances were fun though.

[Ulysses]

Immersion ? WoW ? Well ok. Good for Mythic and EA, 300,000 subscribers isn't bad or worth deeming the game a failure. They should cut down the servers as the game's quality really excels if you're on a crowded server, as for it being a WoW-killer, I never recall the developers saying they planned to topple WoW.

[Steve_Erhardt]

Warhammer really deserves better. I knocked myself the fuck out giving Warcraft a chance to really bowl me over and it never happened... I was rarely, if ever, happy playing it, despite how much I wanted to be. I hated the endless grind, I hate the need to have to group with people I don't know to get the good shit, I hate having to play for hours to get a CHANCE at the good shit, and even then I hate the fact that I had to do it a zillion times to get my TURN at getting a CHANCE at the good shit. Gah, I'm getting fucking pissed off just THINKING about it again.

But in Warhammer, I just get in there and have a damn good time, from start to finish, long as I play, PvE or PvP, Quest or RvR, I'm just always enjoying myself.

SO different from WoW, and I'm damn mother fucking glad OF it. Innovative? Not so much, I guess, but it gets right everything WoW got wrong (for me... YMMV).

[NuK]

Warhammer really deserves better. I knocked myself the fuck out giving Warcraft a chance to really bowl me over and it never happened... I was rarely, if ever, happy playing it, despite how much I wanted to be. I hated the endless grind, I hate the need to have to group with people I don't know to get the good shit, I hate having to play for hours to get a CHANCE at the good shit, and even then I hate the fact that I had to do it a zillion times to get my TURN at getting a CHANCE at the good shit. Gah, I'm getting fucking pissed off just THINKING about it again.

But in Warhammer, I just get in there and have a damn good time, from start to finish, long as I play, PvE or PvP, Quest or RvR, I'm just always enjoying myself.

SO different from WoW, and I'm damn mother fucking glad OF it. Innovative? Not so much, I guess, but it gets right everything WoW got wrong (for me... YMMV).

I'm a little less emotional than this, but i pretty much agree. I mostly like the "pick up and play" pvp aspect of the game, from level 1 to level 40, and the variety of PvP from tier to tier. 300k is still quite a few peeps :)

[abso]

They suffered from trying to do a PvE, open-PvP, and scenario-PvP game all in one. If they had just focused on PvE content in PvP areas, from beginning to end, it would have felt like a much more polished game. But the PvE was uninspiring and open-PvP at low levels was non-existent. There was nothing really interesting to do other than scenarios. I figure I'll give it another look over come summer time, once the game has had a chance to get some polish.

I just hate the mentality of "wait until you are 35+, that's when the real fun starts." I mean, why make me go through 1-34 to get to the fun parts. It should be there from the start.

[Wyrm]

Count me in the camp that enjoyed it more than WoW. If my computer was working, I would still be playing it. :(

PvP matters in WAR, and after doing it that way, I don't want to do it any other way. They figured out the right way to reward players for playing the game. Rather than force them to endlessly grind on one part of the game, you are allowed to choose where you dabble. No, the PvE is not as good as WoW, but it was never the focus of the game. I think the game would be fine without it, in fact, but it's there to please the WoW faithful.

I hope they can keep enough people to finish their game, because it's about a year's worth of patches away from perfection in my eyes.

[NuK]

I just hate the mentality of "wait until you are 35+, that's when the real fun starts." I mean, why make me go through 1-34 to get to the fun parts. It should be there from the start.

man, maybe this varies from server to server or something, but i was pvping in scenarios, open world, etc. all the way from level 1 to 35 (as far as i've gotten w/ a single toon...i have alt-itus)

[Wyrm]

man, maybe this varies from server to server or something, but i was pvping in scenarios, open world, etc. all the way from level 1 to 35 (as far as i've gotten w/ a single toon...i have alt-itus)

I went from 1 to 20 with a couple of classes in scenarios and open world stuff, and it was a total blast. I tried to PvE a few times, but it was fuck boring, so I just went back to the fun part.

By the way Warhammer has some of the coolest classes in any MMO. Each is unique and fun to play in its own way, and there is a class for everyone.

I found that it was actually fun to play a healer! The first fun I've ever had healing in an MMO.

[Qoz]

Darkfall will be different.
When you compete directly with a monster title like WOW, then you are asking the people playing to choose one or the other.

If you compete with WOW it's like making an OS to compete with Microsoft Windows, and asking veteran Microsoft users to change. It just won't happen unless the other product is MUCH better.

They need to find a niche audience like Darkfall is doing - go either more hardcore or more carebear.

[Duskfire]

300k is still a decent number; whats more worrying though is the sudden drop in players from one month to the next. Reminds me of AoC a bit (even though WAR is a far superior game to that trash.) Hopefully their next major patch that includes the two new classes will bring some people back. If it doesn't, you would think EA and Mythic would be looking at that subscription decline with worried expressions.

Just goes to show that no fantasy mmo can compare to WoW numbers wise. Which isn't neccessarily a bad thing, CoX varies between 100k and 150k subscribers and it still seems to be going along fine.

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

Can someone please dig up some factual information about this bullshit I hear of WAR trying to directly take on WoW. From what I can tell you all assume that any MMO is trying to kick WoW in the nuts.

I cant help but laugh my ass off every time I see people comparing "new mmo a" to WoW... Thats why so many damn people hate new titles they think it should be like WoW but "better". Sorry there is no cutesy bullshit to be "engrossed by" or /b/ style chat channels to zone out on while waiting for your actual gameplay to start. Not to mention no games within your game so you can game while you game nor are there a million resources to buy gold or characters.

[Bushido]

Fantasy MMO. There are enough. The world can only support 11.5million Orcs. The rest of us want a better scifi game. This is not really news, bioware is developing a *gasp* starwars mmo!!!? Again? What?

[Borys]

LOLZ at another FANTASY MMORPG with ORCS & ELVES & SHIT failing miserably at the feet of WoW.

(yeah I know Warhammer predates Warcraft)

Nothing set in fantasy medieval times will challenge WoW. Never, ever. Get that through your thick skulls developers and start making sci-fi MMORPGs, they at least have some chance at dethroning WoW.

[Qoz]

#Suicidal ShiZuru
WAR is like WOW.
You can ofcourse say that they are different in some ways, but the point is how the consumer will experience "a differnent feel then WOW" in an MMO.

I think ALOT of players cannot see WAR and WOW as very different.

They are made using the same template.
They have levels, item based, instances, PvP, grinding etc.
Let face it - WAR/WOW is a themepark MMO, where you pass through and see the sights.

WAR is close to a re-skin of WOW with some new ideas. To make people change you need to present a different experience (a different template) or to just make it so much better than WOW (and thats hard).

Take a look at Darkfall.
- It has full loot drop when you die.
- You have no levels.
- You can kill everyone.
- You have to aim your bow and spells.
etc.

This is vastly different than WOW and will therefore attract players keen on something different. WOW is attracting alot of players and they are using the WOW template system. Some will not like this system in the long run and shit to a different experience. The ones already hooked on this system will continue playing WOW and not shift to WAR.

WAR tried to be different, but still kept the levelling, item-focused template.
They neede a way more radical change to gain lasting appeal.

[Qoz]

#Borys
It's not about the same fantasy setting.
It's about the same MMO system being used.

Stupid to imitate WOW's system - make something new..

[Qoz]

Damn edit button!
"shit" should be "shift" ofcourse.
:)

[Vandenh]

PvP wise WAR is by far the superior game.
PvE immersion wise LOTRO is head and shoulders above anything else
PvE Raid wise WoW is the king

Pick your poison.

I personally dropped out of WoW after 2 years of raiding. I just can't stand going back to it now.... if you can escape the WoW addiction for 4 months you will never look back. It has lost most of the appeal now.

[Wolfgang]

I tried WAR and went back to WoW. WAR had more PvP Battlegrounds and yeah the Open World PvP, but the PvE was a boring and the PvP wasn't that much better than WoWs. Blizzard has also changed their PvP a lot where it is very close to WARs reward system -- you PvP a lot in WoW, get coins, buy your gear. In WAR you PvPed a lot, got realm points, bought your gear... not much different.

I don't like how WoW has been so successful that it now has to make idiots happy -- they are slowly or quickly making the hybrid classes the best (and I play a Paladin). Pretty soon people will be a Druid, Shaman, Paladin or Death Knight, which is not a good thing.

As many have said, what I am looking forward to is something different. For me to leave WoW it has to be something really different if it is going to be a Knights vs Orcs MMO or make it SCI-Fi. I am really hoping Champions or DC is good. Hopefully both will have fun PvE and good PvP.

[Demo_Boy]

Yay, WAR has better PVP. As to why it can't topple the PVE experience of WOW, perhaps it is because they cut 4 capital cities and a handful of classes from the game?

[murpes]

I wanted to give WAR a fair shot, but the poor performance caused me to abandon it. I was one of those unlucky people that had annoyingly choppy frame rates despite having an adequate system. I never saw a patch that directly addressed this, and I'm not willing to reactivate, and start paying, in the hopes that it's been addressed.

Lich King has reinvigorated my interest in WoW anyway. I think I'm one of the many people that's ready to switch to a new MMO, but there just hasn't been anything compelling enough to justify it. I have high hopes for Knight of the Republic, but that is still a ways off.

[abso]

man, maybe this varies from server to server or something, but i was pvping in scenarios, open world, etc. all the way from level 1 to 35 (as far as i've gotten w/ a single toon...i have alt-itus)

I don't remember what server I was on, but clearly it was the wrong one. It definitely wasn't one of the heavy population ones.

Scenarios were a ton of fun, they just got old after a while. It made me want to go back to playing an FPS. What I was really hoping for was more involved PvE quest objectives in the open-PvP areas. Other than to PvP, I saw little incentive to make me even explore the open-PvP areas.

The game was severely lacking a direct funnel to get the PvE people into PvP. As soon as I noticed that, the magic was gone.

[drakkarim]

never had a shred of interest in this game, but damn lotro has been calling at me like a double D harpy for the last year and a half, and i think i'm starting to lose my resolve to not take a bit out of those apples.

how many peeps are in lotro anyway?

[kwolf]

The question I have about the subscriber data is what direction is it heading? 300K and going up or 300K and going down? My guess is going down because if it was going up, they would have said so in their briefing ("and rising by 10K per month steadily" or something like that.)

From the beta it was clear it would never go anywhere. It's a step back, not forward. The problem is mark jacobs had no vision than everquest derivatives and fixing what he did wrong with daoc.

[Roc Ingersol]

I think the lost subscribers have much more to do with WAR's own problems than with WoW.

You sign up for WAR because WoW isn't doing it for you.
The only thing that can really change your mind about that, is WAR itself.

Even with everyone shouting from the rooftops about how awesome WotLK is, if you're happy with WAR you'd ignore it like everyone ignores all the happy subscribers of every other game.

[drakkarim]

never had a shred of interest in this game, but damn lotro has been calling at me like a double D harpy for the last year and a half, and i think i'm starting to lose my resolve to not take a bit out of those apples.


damn me all to hell, just saw an ad for the complete edition (of LOTRO) being on sale at best buy for $20 and i bought before i even knew what happened.

i'm so disappointed in myself, i guess now i have something to do when my wife goes away on vacation for 8 weeks in a month :) well, at least it'll keep me out of the bars and away from other temptations...

[vallor]

WAR is close to a re-skin of WOW with some new ideas. To make people change you need to present a different experience (a different template) or to just make it so much better than WOW (and thats hard).

Take a look at Darkfall.
- It has full loot drop when you die.
- You have no levels.
- You can kill everyone.
- You have to aim your bow and spells.
etc.

This is vastly different than WOW and will therefore attract players keen on something different.

Darkfall sounds like Shadowbane 2.0. Maybe it will attract players but if the above describe the highlights of the feature list I suspect it will not attract too many. And those that do play will be the hardest core of the hardcore.

It seems that they are targeting a completely different audience than the demo WAR and WOW are going for.

Someone needs to make a decent space or post apocoliptic MMO and simply concede that WoW has the next few years, at least, locked up for the fantasy game players.

[Qoz]

If they make a space MMO with the same system as WoW, then it will have the same obstacles as WAR.

I don't think the MMO setting has much influence on the long term staying power. Sure people will join a space MMO, but if it's the same as WoW then they will leave again.

As I said - you need a new system that will allow different game mechanics.

When people look at Darkfall and it's features I see them comparing it to WoW using their own experience. What you have to realize is, that once you break the level/item system of WoW you have a whole new game. WoW players are developing their characters for gear and thus spend time in instances. PvP is an afterthought with no real adrenaline combat at all. It's 90% gear.

This is fine as you play WOW to see the sights and then quit at level 80. You are like everybody else playing the same class. Doing the same things.

Things get interesting if you make an MMO where skill in controlling the character actually matters. WOW/WAR is catering to the philosophy, that all players should be heroes and be able to get all the goodies. But they are removing the challenge.

I know about this because I played UO.
I was probably ganked more than I killed in that game, but those victories were so sweet once you killed someone. You had a very different sense of danger and alertness. In WOW you can just go afk all over the place, because people can't touch you. You can talk shit with no consequence.
In UO you would get killed if you were annoying (people would take the kill count).

[Qoz]

I'm not saying Darkfall is going to rule the world, but they are doing some VERY interesting design choices, and I think more MMO's should adopt the formula.

Do something else than WOW - either more hardcore or more casual/kiddie.

[Vorphalack]

WAR is a fun game.
That said, I'm not playing it at the moment....BUT...unlike AOC it does deserve to exist in the marketplace. I really enjoyed my time with it, but all of my friends are in WoW.

I'll get bored with it soon, though, and hopefully WAR will still be waiting for me when that happens.

[abso]

never had a shred of interest in this game, but damn lotro has been calling at me like a double D harpy for the last year and a half, and i think i'm starting to lose my resolve to not take a bit out of those apples.

how many peeps are in lotro anyway?

There are no official numbers released, but it is estimated at ~200k combined between the NA and European servers. It's a great PvE game, and a lot of fun 1-50. However, the new systems they added do not match all of the hype surrounding them. The legendary item system is nothing but a tremendous grind for minimal improvement - it is certainly no solid alternate advancement system. Moria IS ridiculously beautiful though, and the quests are a ton of fun. But once you are through the content, there isn't much to do to keep you coming back. After a year and half, I'm about to quit playing.

[abso]

Someone needs to make a decent space or post apocoliptic MMO and simply concede that WoW has the next few years, at least, locked up for the fantasy game players.

Check out Earthrise. Seems promising for the post-apocalyptic setting. Plus, I'm digging the classless component of it.

[drakkarim]

There are no official numbers released, but it is estimated at ~200k combined between the NA and European servers. It's a great PvE game, and a lot of fun 1-50. However, the new systems they added do not match all of the hype surrounding them. The legendary item system is nothing but a tremendous grind for minimal improvement - it is certainly no solid alternate advancement system. Moria IS ridiculously beautiful though, and the quests are a ton of fun. But once you are through the content, there isn't much to do to keep you coming back. After a year and half, I'm about to quit playing.

sounds like i should enjoy it, i guess i don't regret the $20 purchase now :) thanks for the info. i'm all about the PvE/quests/story.

[EL CABONG]

I liked WAR. I hope to get back into into it someday. WAR's PVP was alot more fun for me than WOW. Public Quests are fun if you can find other people doing them.

[Mozain]

Still playing WAR and loving it. But I think the market place is ready for a shift. My ideal game, a Planet Side-esque game modeled around the Warhammer 40k universe... The right there would own my soul.

[abso]

sounds like i should enjoy it, i guess i don't regret the $20 purchase now :) thanks for the info. i'm all about the PvE/quests/story.

Glad to help! While I'm still playing though, if you roll a character on Nimrodel you can look me up if you have questions. My character's name is Gille, although lately I'm running around on an alt (Gilana). It's definitely worth the initial 20 dollar investment if you are into PvE and small group content.

[lockwoodx]

WAR boasted 800k subscribers at launch. Now 300k and that's US + Europe? jesus that gam is tanking fast.

[shiznit]

I read an interview where one of the producers said the goal of the new 'live' expansion is to retain players and bring back some who left.

I bought this game and played for a 2 weeks, then it became a massive grind and started thinking that the keep siege pvp was nothing more than a zerg fest. Most of the classes were boring and combat felt clumsy. Maybe my fault for expecting too much but that's why I quit.

Hopefully The Old Republic will get it right, KOTOR3 would have been enough so if my $50 purchase and the free month gets me a good single-playerish adventure (which they are claiming you can have and that each class has a different path with different quests), they I'll be happy. If it actually turns out to be a great mmo then even better.

[TeeCakes]

WAR boasted 800k subscribers at launch. Now 300k and that's US + Europe? jesus that gam is tanking fast.

It's not a good thing when you lose over half of the early adopters, particularly for a subscription-based MMO.

But part of the problem is that it was trying to operate outside of WoW, while not going for the jugular. There's simply no room in an MMO-player's schedule to devote to more than one of those bad boys, so if WoW is a more fulfilling experience, WAR's gonna lose subscribers to it. Hell, I'm sure FF11 stole away some of the WAR base.

Speaking of console MMOs, I'm predicting that the DC Universe will follow a similar meteoric rise/fall in subscribers. Unless the PVP is unreal, and the monthly charges aren't.

[Zeal]

while i dont think KOTOR will come close to being as huge a success as WoW, i DO think it will gain a very respectable amount of users and become a very successful, science fiction based MMO, coexisting alongside WoW as only the first MMO to do so.

that is........until Universe of Starcraft

DUM DUM DUMMMMMM....