Gaming Under Fire - Part 10,246

[Evil Avatar]

No need to give these much air time, but for the curious here are two articles, Violent Video Game Popularity Soars (http://www.techtree.com/techtree/jsp/article.jsp?article_id=69455&cat_id=585) and Video Games Beyond Repair (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Business/story?id=1355538&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312), both referencing the MediaWise Video Game Report Card from the National Instute on Media and the Family. Gaming expert Dan Morris suggests that if parents actually followed the ratings, it might help more than pointing fingers:

Still, Morris contends that the institute could be doing a lot more good if their goal was to help rather than to get publicity.

"If the National Institute on Media and the Family really wants to help, they'd take all this energy they're expending on these 'killology' reports, and spend this energy on educating their members and educating parents around the country about the rating system," he said. "That might actually do some good."

[Ludoc]

Re: Morris's (Or would Morris' be more correct?) quote, I could not agree more.

[GrinR]

Dan Morris is my friend.

Jealous!?!?

[The Iron Weasel]

Dan Morris is my friend.

Jealous!?!?

You know the Editor in Chief of PC Gamer?

[Evil Avatar]

You know the Editor in Chief of PC Gamer?

I know him. He is in the "Cease and Desist" category of friendship. ;)

[The Iron Weasel]

Having someone that in the know about games would be badass, when christmas and birthday rolls around you KNOW he knows what hes doing! :) (NEVER just ask for any game from someone...they DON'T know what to do!)

[The Letter 3]

Re: Morris's (Or would Morris' be more correct?) quote, I could not agree more.
If a name such as Morris is to be possessive, then the correct format is Morris'. Same thing if you have a plural possessive (such as the walls' paint job did not look good)

Okay, English lesson over. I would give a video game lesson, but it appears that Mr. Morris is spot on. Education, not finger pointing is what we need. That's about the only road, unless you all vote me in as president of the U.S., I get all of you elected to congress, and we pass a law that dismantles the National Instute on Media and the Family. That would be sweet!

And Free doughnut Saturdays. That would be a pretty cool law too.

[The Iron Weasel]

And Free doughnut Saturdays. That would be a pretty cool law too.

There would be total anarchy on Saturdays in Halifax, there is a god damn Tim Hortons ON EVERY CORNER!

[total]

If a name such as Morris is to be possessive, then the correct format is Morris'. Same thing if you have a plural possessive (such as the walls' paint job did not look good)

Damn, you beat me to it. This one is almost as bad as your + you're, or their + there + they're. There is a website that has all these little English tips in it. I'll post if I can find it.

[Citizen Philip]

Associations are about doing what is popular, not what is right. Of course, they don't hold exclusive rights on that ability either.

[Imelman]

If the National Instute on Media and the Family wants to attack the ESRB rating system, then they should also attack the rating system for movies. I don't know how many times I've been to an R rated movie and had to listen to a bunch of middle school kids talk about how cool it was when so and so got his head blown off (not to mention the times I've been to a rated R movie and had to hear babies crying). IMO, if one system is flawed then they both are.

/rant

I hereby vote for The Letter 3 for president due to his "Free doughnut Saturdays" platform.

[Ludoc]

I knew that posseive plurals had the apostrophe at the end but wasn't sure if proper names ending in an S were treated the same way. Thanks for clearing that up.

Letter: If you ran on a campaign which included free donut Saturdays I would move to the States, get my citizenship and vote for you.

Weasel: I'm pretty sure Halifax has the most Horton's per capita in Canada; which I suppose means the most per capita world wide too.

[Ondo]

If a name such as Morris is to be possessive, then the correct format is Morris'.

Actually, there is considerable disagreement on that topic. Morris's is correct according to the first rule in Strunk and White's The Elements of Style. Others disagree.

[JazGalaxy]

I don't understand how a group of people who are appaled by the obscenity in "shock-rock" style videogames constitues "videogames under fire".

It's not like they have a problem with ALL videogames. They don't care if you sit around playing Bauldurs Gate or World of Warcraft until you're blue in the face. They just have a problem with games that push the limit on acceptable content because they're trying to sell indecency as a product. And to children no less.

It's like gamers try to pretend that Grand Theft Auto isn't the single most objectionable pice of media ever created on this planet. You commit thousands of crimes, from misdemeanors like jay walking, to capital offences like murder. You sell drugs out of an ice cream truck. You lie, you cheat, you steal, you extort... If it's illegal or immoral, and you can't do it in the game, it's coming in the next edition.

And then gamers sit there like "we're being picked on for no reason...!"

That just makes us look like a bunch of people who have absolutely no conscience and absolutely no sense. Why should anyone listen to what people like that have to say?

[Evil Avatar]

It's like gamers try to pretend that Grand Theft Auto isn't the single most objectionable pice of media ever created on this planet. You commit thousands of crimes, from misdemeanors like jay walking, to capital offences like murder. You sell drugs out of an ice cream truck. You lie, you cheat, you steal, you extort... If it's illegal or immoral, and you can't do it in the game, it's coming in the next edition.

It is also Rated "M" for "Mature" and some states even have laws that say that it is illegal to sell "M" rated games to minors.

What is wrong with a game like that? It is for adults and it is marketed to adults. If Children are playing it, why is that Rockstar's fault, the ESRB's fault or the Gaming Industry's fault???

If you come home and your 10-year old is watching "Debbie does Electronic Arts" on DVD, is that Electronic Arts fault for making pr0n? Is it the retailers fault for selling YOU (and adult over the age of 18) an adult video? Is it the ratings system fault for rating the movie "XXX" i.e., adults only?

No, it would be your fault for leaving the darn thing lying around where your kids can get their hands on it. It should have stayed in the unmarked brown paper wrapper in the top of your closet like all well-hidden porn.

See, what is happening here is that these people have decied that the same standard that applies to movies does NOT apply to video games. When a film company makes an "Unrated" movie or a "XXX" movie, they trust that the film has been given the right rating and it is the responsability of parents to make sure that the media doesn't get into the hands of children.

But, because video games appeal to people from ages 8 - 95 and part of that age range is a lot of people aged 8 - 17, it is suddenly out of the hands of parents to be responsible for what their gets play and buy and the government needs to step in and take over.

This is really about politics. A few people want to get their name in the paper so they can get elected and it is much easier to pick on video games than the movie and TV industry because the video game industry doesn't have the kind of large influence and representation that movies and TV does (Lets see Ms. Clinton try to take on a movie studio and see how fast her career takes a nose dive.).

All we can do as gamers is weather the storm and try to educate people when we have the chance.

[The Letter 3]

Actually, there is considerable disagreement on that topic. Morris's is correct according to the first rule in Strunk and White's The Elements of Style. Others disagree.
Adding another layer, there are some in the professional realm of Engilsh who believe that Strunk and White are the epitome of bad form.

To be honest, I only answered the possessive question because he was curious. My personal view is that what you have to say is more important than how you say it.

[The Letter 3]

All we can do as gamers is weather the storm and try to educate people when we have the chance.
Or, as I learned in GTA, beat them with a baseball bat if I don't like them. :D

[Verocity]

Or, as I learned in GTA, beat them with a baseball bat if I don't like them. :D

ROFL!

Seriously, it's just a matter of time before we start becoming the people who are elected into office and make all the important decisions. Then, we will have our day and the first order of business?

We start telling people to be responsible for themselves! Then we hold public education classes on how to decipher the ESRB rating system with a prep course in "Learning the alphabet with Big Bird and Friends".

Only then, once parents undestand how to raise children AND read the alphabet, will the video game industry finally be praised!

[Serapth]

ROFL!

Seriously, it's just a matter of time before we start becoming the people who are elected into office and make all the important decisions. Then, we will have our day and the first order of business?

We start telling people to be responsible for themselves! Then we hold public education classes on how to decipher the ESRB rating system with a prep course in "Learning the alphabet with Big Bird and Friends".

Only then, once parents undestand how to raise children AND read the alphabet, will the video game industry finally be praised!

God no, we are never going to get our chance in office. The baby boomer generation is just too big, and too selfish. Those bastards are probrably going to find a way to live to 100+ and we will be completely passed over at having our chance at forming the government. Instead, it will fall to our rotten children, who raised on the baby boomers moronic laws will probrably pass a law making it manditory to execute anyone over the age of 60.

All told, we are the voiceless generation! Get used to it ;)

[OUX]

It's like gamers try to pretend that Grand Theft Auto isn't the single most objectionable pice of media ever created on this planet.


Um its not actually. Have you ever seen the "Faces of Death" movies?

[Serapth]

Um its not actually. Have you ever seen the "Faces of Death" movies?

Or "Master of Disguise"?

[JazGalaxy]

If you come home and your 10-year old is watching "Debbie does Electronic Arts" on DVD, is that Electronic Arts fault for making pr0n? Is it the retailers fault for selling YOU (and adult over the age of 18) an adult video? Is it the ratings system fault for rating the movie "XXX" i.e., adults only?

No, it would be your fault for leaving the darn thing lying around where your kids can get their hands on it.

Depending on how that found it's way into my house, I think it's alittle bit of everybodies fault.

Call me too big a nerd, but Spiderman has taught me that "with great power comes great responsibility."

If you're putting out content, you have a responsibillity to anyone who comes into contact with that content. Just as a parent is responsible for the acts their children commit, even when they are away, I feel that a creator is responsible for the ramifications of his "child".

Are parents responsible? Yes. But I feel Rockstar (and I like Grand Theft Auto) is also just as responsible, and in some cases MORE responsible. After all, they made it.

When someone like Rockstar basically says "I don't care. It's the parents job to care. I just do what I want." then I feel as though the governemnt (which is supposed to express the collective voice of it's citizens) should very well be able to step in and say "look, if you don't care, then we'll take this situation into our own hands."

You have to remember, in many instances the industry has been found to be INTENTIONALLY targeting these products to children. Ask yourself, how do young children find OUT about these games anyway? Because they've been advertised to during television shows that are NOT "M" rated, and read about them in magazines that are not "M" rated.

You have a kid now, Evil. How are you going to act when society starts telling her to dress like a ho and have sex with lots of guys to be liked? And as much as you tell her differently, television, magazines, VIDEOGAMES, music, and her friends are telling her differently? Do you want it to be you vs. the media? Because you'll be grossly outnumbered, and as soon as she reaches age 12 she's not going to care what you have to say anyways. Or would you rather have a little help?

[The Iron Weasel]

Weasel: I'm pretty sure Halifax has the most Horton's per capita in Canada; which I suppose means the most per capita world wide too.

You have to see it to believe it. The first time I visited family here, I was like "Am I the only one that notices the FREAK AMOUNT of god damn Tim Hortons here!?!?!"

[Evil Avatar]

You have a kid now, Evil. How are you going to act when society starts telling her to dress like a ho and have sex with lots of guys to be liked? And as much as you tell her differently, television, magazines, VIDEOGAMES, music, and her friends are telling her differently? Do you want it to be you vs. the media? Because you'll be grossly outnumbered, and as soon as she reaches age 12 she's not going to care what you have to say anyways. Or would you rather have a little help?

That is a great question and I guess I would say that I'll handle it as a parent the way my parents and my wifes parents handled it - by using their parenting skills to impress upon her my morality and my values and trying to empower her to feel that it is Ok to make good decisions even when everyone else is telling you not to.

I won't always win and I won't always be right, but my parents did a pretty good job and Mrs. Avatar's parents did a great job so I think we will be Ok.

And our parents did it without the government stepping in and saying that people can't make R-Rated or X-Rated movies/magazines/TV shows/etc. and I would like to give Rockstar (and other developers) the same lattitude.

The stuff you see in GTA is what I would call "cartoon violence" and I don't think it even has the impact of a 50 Cent movie (or any of the other "Gangster turned rapper" movie stars) so I don't think their responsibilty extends much further than making a product that they think their fans will purchase (and they purchase copies by the millions so someone must be enjoying those games).

If you want to talk about personal responsibility, you should read some of the sick, disgusting stuff I've written over the years as a horror author and read as a fan of horror fiction. But, I don't see much call for people to ban books (or to come up with a rating system for books).

I appreciate your opinion, but I don't think that the gaming industry needs to do anything more than what they do now - which is have a rating system in place to identify those titles children shouldn't play.

[QueQueg]

Cartoon violence is the Road Runner tricking Wile E Coyote to run off a cliff.

Cartoon violence is not brutalizing a hooker with a baseball bat after she's given you a blowjob.

Sorry, I guess my perspective is different that yours.

To put my views into context, I've played the last 3 GTAs, front-to-back, and all the side-quests in-between. In my view they're akin to playing through Goodfellas, or an episode of the Sopranos. But I wouldn't allow my son to watch either.

The industry ultimately helps itself by abiding to an accurate and effective rating system. As gamers, we benefit as well, in that we will continue to have access to any games we choose, safe in the knowledge that censorship will have no sway over a publisher's "vision". If I were to witness a game-store selling GTA:SA to a minor, I'd be highly ticked and have words with the store manager: they're giving ammunition to the lawyers that want to vilify us all.

What's wrong with restricting who can purchase M games?

[Knite]

If you're putting out content, you have a responsibillity to anyone who comes into contact with that content. Just as a parent is responsible for the acts their children commit, even when they are away, I feel that a creator is responsible for the ramifications of his "child".

To look at this line of logic, I need to ask these questions now...

A) Should companies such as Budwieser, Jim Beam, and Absolut be sued every time there is a drunk driving accident?
B) Should a gun company be sued by criminals any time a gun is used in self defense in the home, or by a police officer?
C) Should car companies be held responsible for every car accident that occurs?
D) Should I be allowed to sue the manufacturer of a stove and the manufacturer of a pan because I burnt my hand trying to remove a boiling pot off the burner?

[Knite]

What's wrong with restricting who can purchase M games?

From a personal standpoint, I don't really have a problem with having to card people to purchase M rated games.

What I DO have a problem with is how common it is for legislature to try to (or succeed) in passing a law that states these games cannot be made, or sold, AT ALL, or completely ignores the ESRB ratings entirely and use verbage such as "offensive" allowing stuff that most people would just say "Huh?!" may fall under that guise since there's no hard set lines.