More 360's on the Way, Technical Issues Talked About

[bapenguin]

USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/life/2005-11-28-xbox-second-round_x.htm) brings word that Microsoft is sticking to it's weekly replenishment strategy for the 360 Consoles. They also talk about the hardware failure issues some users are seeing.

Online message boards have reflected a number of technical issues, including hardware failure (indicated by three red lights on the power button), freezing games, scratched discs and overheated power supplies.

"As soon as the actual gameplay starts, it locks up," says owner Clayton Leasure, 26, of Knoxville, Tenn. He called the support line and was sent a prepaid box to use to ship his console back. "They have been helpful and prompt, so I can't ask for much more," he says.

Not all customers are satisfied. "The level of incompetence I have had to deal with is unbelievable," says Brian Smith, 48, of Owasso, Okla., who is trying to get a new power supply. "I can't describe how disappointed I've been."
Any of our users have a hardware issue? I know a certain site claimed 25%, which is absolutely ridiculous. I do think it's probably higher than 3% though that MS claimed.

[ben_bot]

I have had no problems with my 360. I have kept it in a well ventilated area though, both the console and the power supply.

[LilEvilFish]

maybe suspending it from wires like they do with priceless works of art, in an air conditioned room complete with de-ionisers, would suffice! hehe :)

At least you can all keep warm this winter, come on kids, gather round the xbox and i shall tell you a tale

[GunnyMo]

We've had no complains on any of the ones we've sold at my particular store. I do know the Sam's Club close to us has had a number of returns, most of them dealing with the severe circular scratching of disks. You would think they'd find a way to make a system vertical and not scratch disks by now.

[Serapth]

No problems here.

Also really... Brian Smith, 48 of Owasso, Okla... this is the voice or reason? :D

Granted, id be bitchy too if I took mine home on day one and had to wait for a replacement. Thats the downside, the people who had problems are going to be very vocal. Those that didnt have problems are going to be sitting back playing their games.

[ziola]

long time reader here, my 360 was DOA (three red lights) got a new one the next day. Thanks Gamestop!! so wasnt too pissed.

[makkura]

i have no problems with mine yet.

[fitbabits]

Had mine since day one - no problems here. Of course, standing it vertically and having it knocked over may result in some issues, but leaving it unsupported in such a fashion is foolish. Mine is currently sitting on my wooden floor in front of my entertainment system, so no carpet in site.

Also, my cats love it for some reason - I think the gentle and soothing purring of the 360 when it's on is communicating with them. :)

EDIT - I should add here that I had it on all day Tuesday and Thursday last week, playing games and watching DVDs. Not a single hiccup.

[Jacob Singer]

Not a single problem here (knock on wood), and lemme say, we played the shit out of this thing over the holiday. I bet the 360 was on and being used Friday for sixteen hours straight, and lots more on Saturday and Sunday.

And trust me, I was worried, because I was the proud owner of TWO Xboxs with the shitty, shitty Thompson drive...

[Heretic Machine]

You would think they'd find a way to make a system vertical and not scratch disks by now.

It's actually the horizontal position that scratches up the disks, the vertical position is recommended. I've had no scratches, and I keep my system vertical.

I've had mine since the Saturday before launch, and have had no issues at all except struggling with my network to get MS Media Connect to work properlly. I sort of have it working on a consistent basis now even with Zone Alarm up. Claiming that 1/4 360's are fubar is just ridiculous. I would say it's much closer to 10%, just like most other consoles and handhelds. As well, nearly every report I've heard from consumers who have had a bad 360 have said that MS has treated them very well, sending them a box swiftly to return the 360 and have it repaired. Could it be that some people just get too pissed off before calling tech support and so they in turn get bad service?

Anyway, as long as you keep your 360 in a nice open space I doubt you'll have too much in the way of problems, I do recommend keeping it vertical though, just in case.

[bean19]

I've had problems, but I'm the only one from a store that sold 40 units (30 premium, 10 core). I'm writing a story about it and will link to it soon, as it is way too long for anyone who is not interested.

Here is the story:

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=144112#post144112

Cut to the first reply (2nd part of really long post) to read about the problems I had.

[Serapth]

I wonder, with Microsoft treating customers so well, where the replacement Xbox 360's are coming from. Did Microsoft set asside say, 10% of new xbox's for warranty issues, or are the coming out of the pool meant to refresh the sales channels? If that is the case, I wonder if it will contribute to ongoing scarcity.

[fitbabits]

I wonder, with Microsoft treating customers so well, where the replacement Xbox 360's are coming from. Did Microsoft set asside say, 10% of new xbox's for warranty issues, or are the coming out of the pool meant to refresh the sales channels? If that is the case, I wonder if it will contribute to ongoing scarcity.
My understanding is that they are being repaired and sent straight back, not replaced.

[benson]

Knock on wood, but I haven't had any problems yet either. I have mine horizontally sitting on a stand with plenty of space around it. My brother has his in the same position on the same exact stand with plenty of space. Neither of us has any problems.

I have some friends that are looking to get systems and they are hoping that they'll be able to find them in Best Buy in the next couple of weeks when they get one of these weekly shipments. One of them is on one Best Buy's list for the next shipment, so he should get a call when they get it in.

[bapenguin]

Knock on wood as well my 360 has been fine. It's actually in an equipment closet too, and not the most ventilated area. I thinkthe difference is I have the power brick sitting on a concrete floor. The system has gone through 2, 12+ hour gaming sessions without a hiccup.

[Vandenh]

10% would be super high... even 3% is kinda high. PCs have 1-1.5% failure rate.

Reality is probably close to that, maybe a bit more because it is a state-of-the-art design.

[Roman]

Mine is working fine. I have had a few lockups when playing Perfect Dark Zero when exiting a multiplayer game, but that's a PD0 problem, not an XBOX problem.

Of course, when I got this thing, I already knew that this appliance, smaller than most phone books, contained three 3.2 ghz processors that required large fans and liquid to keep cool, and I treated it as such. I did not put it on the carpet or sandwich it between a DVD player and a VCR. You know, like it actually says NOT to do in the instruction manual. So maybe that's why I'm not experiencing any problems due to MiKKKro$haft's incompetence.

[Abednigo]

Maybe I should test mine before I sell it. ;)

[benson]

I should add that I have my power brick on a separate shelf than the system. I have the power brick on a lower shelf behind my DVD player.

[Hellstorm]

You guys are jumping through a few more hoops than needed to stop your 360 from malfunctioning. Take note Nintendo and Sony. The less I have to do to get my system running great the better.

[falcon]

Mine has been problem free for the most part, it locked up once playing Geometry Wars but that's been about it. I've got mine in the horizontal position on an AV shelf with plenty of ventilation and the power brick sitting on a carpeted floor. No marathon gaming sessions here though (max sessions was about 4 hrs) due to the wonderful girlfriend timer...

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I don't think you have to worry about Nintendo there Hellstorm. Their consoles and handhelds have pretty much all been of top quality.

[Jacob Singer]

You guys are jumping through a few more hoops than needed to stop your 360 from malfunctioning. Take note Nintendo and Sony. The less I have to do to get my system running great the better.

I'm not sure that being sensible with a $400 electronic component equals 'jumping through hoops'. My 360 is sitting on top of my old Xbox, with the power brick off to the side. Hardly like building a custom cabinet for it or anything...

[Dabombpizza]

I think what is important is here is not that the systems are malfunctioning, but what MS's reaction to the malfunctions is. I mean, systems fucking up on launch are a no brainer, it happens every freakin' launch, even the PS3 and the Rev will malfunction in some way.

But the fact that MS will send you a pre-paid box speaks very highly of their customer and quality commitment. How did sony react after the initial launch of the PS2s fucked up? Wasn't it a big middle finger to anybody who bought their console?

[Jacob Singer]

I don't think you have to worry about Nintendo there Hellstorm. Their consoles and handhelds have pretty much all been of top quality.

Agreed. I'm not a big fan of most of their games, but I don't think I've ever had a single problem with my Nintendo Gamecube, unlike my PS2 and Xbox.

[phantomhitman]

It's actually the horizontal position that scratches up the disks, the vertical position is recommended. I've had no scratches, and I keep my system vertical.


Is that a fact, and if so why does it happen? I keep all of my systems horizontal and this be some handy info to have if its true.

[Dabombpizza]

No marathon gaming sessions here though (max sessions was about 4 hrs) due to the wonderful girlfriend timer...
What color did you get yours in? And did you get the premium package?

[Banacek]

Agreed. I'm not a big fan of most of their games, but I don't think I've ever had a single problem with my Nintendo Gamecube, unlike my PS2 and Xbox.

My only problem with my Gamecube is the lack of enough games to play on it...

OH SNAP!

[Ozymandias]

We've had no complains on any of the ones we've sold at my particular store. I do know the Sam's Club close to us has had a number of returns, most of them dealing with the severe circular scratching of disks. You would think they'd find a way to make a system vertical and not scratch disks by now.

I've heard the scratching happens if you change the system's alignment when the drive is spinning - ie, from horizontal to vertical or back. At 12X, the angular velocity of the drive just scratches the disc. Nothing MS can do about it - going to be a problem for any machine with drives this fast.

As to failure rates, of the three boxes I know of (mine and two friends), no issues.

[KNOTE]

Allegedly, the failure rate is around 15%.

[RainOfTerror]

my X360 is in horizontal position, is in a tight not very well condition part of my entertainment center, the power supply is on the carpet between the wall and the TV, and I have not had a single problem. I've been playing since the week before it came out for 5-6 hours in a row, sometimes even longer ...

I'm sure Microsoft was expecting returns, so they either have a well equipped repair staff, or have a stash sitting in the backroom for returns. It would only make sense, I'm sure defunct machines were calculated in.

[fitbabits]

Allegedly, the failure rate is around 15%.
And your source is...?

[KNOTE]

And your source is...?
This is the internet! We don't give sources, we just wildly speculate.

[NACIONAL]

Allegedly, the failure rate is around 15%.

That is Impossible....... more like 1.5% - 3% TOPS!

[AniAko]

Wasn't it a big middle finger to anybody who bought their console?

Interesting excerpt from a PS2 warranty

...(e)HAS HAD THE WARRANTY SEAL ON THE CONOSLE REMOVED. THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER PRODUCTS SOLD AS IS OR WITH ALL FAULTS, OR CONSUMABLES (SUCH AS FUSES OR BATTERIES).

So if I buy a new PS2 with bum fuses or Cmos battery, I can't take it up with Sony to fix the problem. Nor can I replace a fuse or battery myself without voiding the warranty by removing the warranty sticker.

[fitbabits]

This is the internet! We don't give sources, we just wildly speculate.
Ah, but this is Evil Avatar, where one can depend on the news being at the very least accurate. :)

[BleedTheFreak]

I'm surprised none is talking about how great it is (I hope) that another wave of 360's is shipping later this week. I should be in the second wave, so maybe I'll be up on Live! on my day off (Friday)!!

[wyndairn]

Mine works fine; been playing for hours each day with no heat/lockups.

I did have to move it while I was paused in a PGR3 game (my girlfriend was vacuuming, so I felt it was the least I could do to get out of her way as I sit on the couch playing games :P), and got it off vertical as I did so (probably about 20 degrees). The disc immediately scratched like crazy. Running it vertical causes no problem for me, but I bet a lot of the scratched discs being returned are people tipping their machines even slightly as they decide where to place it, whether or not it looks better vertical or horizontal, or "Watch this, if you tip it on it's side the ring of light rotates with it!" :rolleyes:

[benson]

I'm surprised none is talking about how great it is (I hope) that another wave of 360's is shipping later this week. I should be in the second wave, so maybe I'll be up on Live! on my day off (Friday)!!
I agree. I touched on it a little, but no one else has mentioned it. I really hope they get solid shipments out so that my friends can get them as well.

[fitbabits]

I'm surprised none is talking about how great it is (I hope) that another wave of 360's is shipping later this week. I should be in the second wave, so maybe I'll be up on Live! on my day off (Friday)!!
Perhaps because that would be under the heading of 'good news' and some people positively froth at the mouth when the words good, news & Microsoft are mentioned together! :rolleyes:

[KNOTE]

My own 360 has worked flawlessly and I'm enjoying it tremendously, even without an HDTV. I recently setup WMConnect and now I'm streaming music and photos. Very cool.

Gamertag = K Note

[Sinistar]

No hardware issues to speak of but I did just return (for a replacement) a 360 wireless controller that was wonky. EBGStop was very nice about it being under the 14 day return policy.

[Ultima Thulian]

It's really hard to give MS a hard time, they're doing everything in their power to solve the problem. They are also being excellent to their customers. Compare that with Sony's constant "Too fucking bad" attitude and it's hard to complain.

And the failure ratio being more than 3%? BS. It's more likely a little less than that.

[Dabombpizza]

Stop talking about failure rate! Player 1 will show up and start talking about the gmaing culture and how it's mostly speculation, and none of you want that.

[Worldcrafter]

I did have to move it while I was paused in a PGR3 game (my girlfriend was vacuuming, so I felt it was the least I could do to get out of her way as I sit on the couch playing games :P), and got it off vertical as I did so (probably about 20 degrees). The disc immediately scratched like crazy. Running it vertical causes no problem for me, but I bet a lot of the scratched discs being returned are people tipping their machines even slightly as they decide where to place it, whether or not it looks better vertical or horizontal, or "Watch this, if you tip it on it's side the ring of light rotates with it!" :rolleyes:

People should be aware that tilting any device with a spinning disk that isn't locked down (such as a laptop drive) can result in scratching the disk, even destroying the disk. I was once using a school computer, and put in a burned CD. The computer's case was vertical, and the drive orientation was as well. I tried sliding the computer case to make more room for my work, and accidentally tipped the case while the drive was spun up. It made a loud grinding sound, and when I opened the drive, my CD was severely scratched on both sides, effectively destroyed. I would be surprised if it didn't negetively affect the drive in someway.

Anyway, the moral of my story is, don't tilt your console/computer while it has a disk spinning. The sudden change in force can result in your disk making contact with the drive.

The more you know...

[Heretic Machine]

Compare that with Sony's constant "Too fucking bad" attitude and it's hard to complain.


Well, "too fucking bad" is slightly better than Sony's other tag-line of, "It was a design decision."

[D_Reaper]

I went by my local Target and Circuit City(that damn coupon runs out the 2nd) this morning, neither of them had any :( .

It would be nice if the retail stores knew when the replenishment is coming in.

[Solstice Magus]

At its worst the PS2 had a 15% failure rate, and is still considered the most faulty gaming console in mass production, and the newest hardware revision still has an 8% perceivable failure rate. In contrast the standard acceptable failure rate for consumer appliences is thought to be somewhere under 2%. Now this is for toasters and things of that nature so it is understandable that on a whole more complex electronics and computers tend to have a HARDWARE failure rate upwards of 2.5 (individual computer components are rigerously tested, but when assembled as a whole they tend to have more issues than seperate).

The origional X-Box is thought to have a failure rate of 3 -> 3.5, which is acceptable in comparison to the PS2, but the gamecube has an on-the-record rate of something like 0.59% or something silly like that (nintendo has always been proud of numbers like that enough to publish them).

Most likely the actual failure rate of the 360 is in the 2 to 3 range, and I say this because the retailers I hang out with have not been refering to their stock rooms as the "360 graveyard" like they do with sony products (don't get me started on the PSP, I was working for EB when it launched earlier this yeart and it was pure hell). It will also be easier to gauge the stability of the product once Christmas is over and it is not just the "hardcore" who are using the machines. I notice we tend to bitch about things of this nature far more than the average Joe. Hell, using the old school PS2 in the verticle position used to put those hilarious etched concentric circles on the discs and you wouldn't beleive the numbe of people that though that it was supposed to do that.

[The Letter 3]

Stop talking about failure rate! Player 1 will show up and start talking about the gmaing culture and how it's mostly speculation, and none of you want that.
Oh. I see. The "gaming" culture is full of people who do nothing more than speculate. I suppose all the hardcore fact lovers are in the sports culture. Or perhaps in the scientific community. Yeah, speculation sucks. And it's only gamers that do it.

[RandomViolence]

Stop talking about failure rate! Player 1 will show up and start talking about the gmaing culture and how it's mostly speculation, and none of you want that.

Don't invoke the fucking name!

[Dabombpizza]

Oh. I see. The "gaming" culture is full of people who do nothing more than speculate. I suppose all the hardcore fact lovers are in the sports culture. Or perhaps in the scientific community. Yeah, speculation sucks. And it's only gamers that do it.
LoL :D Don't shoot the messanger!

[AniAko]

Stop talking about failure rate! Player 1 will show up and start talking about the gmaing culture and how it's mostly speculation, and none of you want that.

You mean he'll show up and start talking about the gaming culture and how his posts are mostly speculation? While his posts are generally well worded, he never cites references to his convictions. I got called once on speculation, never again. I cite almost everything I can. Including here :D

Works cited
Player 1's posts
(http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/search.php?searchid=146409&pp=25&page=1)

[Serapth]

You mean he'll show up and start talking about the gaming culture and how his posts are mostly speculation? While his posts are generally well worded, he never cites references to his convictions. I got called once on speculation, never again. I cite almost everything I can. Including here :D

Works cited
Player 1's posts
(http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/search.php?searchid=146409&pp=25&page=1)

You didnt cite when you got called on speculation...... :D

[Serapth]

Don't invoke the fucking name!

Is it like Candyman? Invoke it 3 times and something really really bad happens?

[phantomhitman]

so any clues when teh next wave hits. ill be on the beach in speedos until then

[AniAko]

You didnt cite when you got called on speculation...... :D

AH! But the post was edited by yours truly and I removed the speculation realizing my argument held no water. For your viewing pleasure, here's the article (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6907) :o I'm a humble man. :)

[Moab Bomb]

We have 6 360s that are each seeing many hours of play daily in a commercial environment, with zero problems-although there was one game of Halo 2 that had a static ghosted image from "Backwash" that lingered the entire game (the map they were playing on was Lockout). Odd enough that I took photos...

[Serapth]

We have 6 360s that are each seeing many hours of play daily in a commercial environment, with zero problems-although there was one game of Halo 2 that had a static ghosted image from "Backwash" that lingered the entire game (the map they were playing on was Lockout). Odd enough that I took photos...

Sure.... take photos, talk about how cool they are, then don't share them with the rest of the message board. TEASE!

[The Letter 3]

LoL :D Don't shoot the messanger!
True. My wrath was ill-directed. Then again, I'm not sure I had a target. Cynacism just happens to be my favorite form of exercise! :D

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

No one has mentioned the method to fix ANY problems with the system. Turn it upside down!

[Inverarity]

My 360 is sitting on top of my old Xbox, with the power brick off to the side.

I'm curious about this arrangement, since I'd like to duplicate it. Does the curve on the top of the XBox match the curve on the 360? If so, do the 360's feet allow enough room for airflow?

[Moab Bomb]

Sure.... take photos, talk about how cool they are, then don't share them with the rest of the message board. TEASE!

As you can see, I am but a lowly Peon with but a handful of posts since bustin' my Evil Av cherry (now that's an ugly image). On the bottom left of my browser window, under "Posting Rules", is the cheery item "You MAY NOT post attchments." Is this due to my lowly status, or am I still able to post photos and I am just being a clueless n00b? I gots the photos-I will have my Mrs. post them on our website tonight, if you'd like.

[RandomViolence]

You can link to photos in imageshack or the like, I forget what I use or I'd offer more suggestions. Hope that helps.

[ruprect]

Ahh, the 15% figure. This was reported on NPR too by a technology "expert" in Seattle. Where did it come from?
The first reference to it on a board that I found was on SlashDot. An Anonymous Coward said the rate was 15% and backed up his claim with this survey:
http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=392599

So, an anonymous voluntary survey is the source for this figure that is now being repeated everywhere. Until someone calls up a bunch of places, lists the results and the places they called (to make sure they aren't making it up) there is no reliable figure.
I though about doing this the other day, but just didn't care enough. . . any real failure reports would be buried by rumors and made-up facts.

-Ruprect

[Cha-Ka]

am I still able to post photos and I am just being a clueless n00b? I gots the photos-I will have my Mrs. post them on our website tonight, if you'd like.

Make a http://photobucket.com/ account, upload images there and then link or add those images to your EAv posts.

[Serapth]

As you can see, I am but a lowly Peon with but a handful of posts since bustin' my Evil Av cherry (now that's an ugly image). On the bottom left of my browser window, under "Posting Rules", is the cheery item "You MAY NOT post attchments." Is this due to my lowly status, or am I still able to post photos and I am just being a clueless n00b? I gots the photos-I will have my Mrs. post them on our website tonight, if you'd like.

Yeah, what he said. Basically throw it somewhere, then wrap it in a IMG page. Or email it to me and ill post it for you if you want.

mike
---- @
----------- return42
--------------------- .com

Man, if email harvesters can farm that, we live in a sad sad world :)

[Speed_D]

Is it like Candyman? Invoke it 3 times and something really really bad happens?
You're thinking of Derek Smart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Smart).

[Moab Bomb]

OK-created a new Photobucket account. Here be the linkies:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c10/MoabBomb/IMG_1264.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c10/MoabBomb/IMG_1263.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c10/MoabBomb/IMG_1262.jpg

Should have taken more/better photos. Damn my worthless hide.

Thanks for the help!

[BabyJesus]

OK-created a new Photobucket account. Here be the linkies:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c10/MoabBomb/IMG_1264.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c10/MoabBomb/IMG_1263.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c10/MoabBomb/IMG_1262.jpg

Should have taken more/better photos. Damn my worthless hide.

Thanks for the help!

Probably an emulation glitch.. Something didn't get purged from a video buffer or something...

[Hellstorm]

I don't think you have to worry about Nintendo there Hellstorm. Their consoles and handhelds have pretty much all been of top quality.

I am not to worried. Nintendo has a great track record, great customer service (the one time I had to deal with them in my console gaming life), and a warranty longer than anyone else.

[Achilles]

So, an anonymous voluntary survey is the source for this figure that is now being repeated everywhere. Until someone calls up a bunch of places, lists the results and the places they called (to make sure they aren't making it up) there is no reliable figure.
I though about doing this the other day, but just didn't care enough. . . any real failure reports would be buried by rumors and made-up facts.That's the internet for you.

For scratching the discs: the biggest problem is that if the system wiggles at all it'll scratch the discs because it's spinning so fast. There's no way to fix this for MS. If you put your system upright on a plush carpet and walk by it while it's in operation it could very well tilt the system slightly and put scratches on your disc.

Easy solution: Unless you put your system upright on something hard (entertainment center, hardwood floor) do not put it upright.

This would be a problem on PCs as well but people don't go tilting PCs while they're installing, which is really the only time a drive would be spinning at full speed.

[Gamewatcher]

Yes, I had the dreaded three red lights - in fact, it's my pic of this "Ring of Death" that's making its way around various sites. :)

http://www.gamestay.com/img/ringofdeath.jpg

I blogged about it last week and I'm due to write an update:

BLOG: Xbox 360 R.I.P. (http://www.gamestay.com/2005/11/24.html)

Basically, I got the mailer Monday (a few days later than expected due to the holiday and their use of DHL instead of UPS) and it should ship to the service center by tomorrow. So I'm looking at getting it repaired or replaced by early next week, unless they turn it around faster than the three days they quoted - which I kind of doubt.

-=Gamewatcher

[Karmakaze]

OK-created a new Photobucket account. Here be the linkies:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c10/MoabBomb/IMG_1264.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c10/MoabBomb/IMG_1263.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c10/MoabBomb/IMG_1262.jpg

Should have taken more/better photos. Damn my worthless hide.

Thanks for the help!

Just tell that guy who keeps standing in the top left corner to MOVE. That's what the mic is for...

[Nerv]

I sort of have it working on a consistent basis now even with Zone Alarm up.
This could be part of the problem, Zone Alarm is a heap of shit.


Could it be that some people just get too pissed off before calling tech support and so they in turn get bad service?
If it were possible, I'd put money on at least half of those complaining about poor service being argumentative assholes who recieve bad service because they're bad customers.

I used to do customer service for BT (a corporation with more departments than most governments) and even if they had a genuine complaint, I always got people who have thier heart set on being angry and had decided that cust. service aren't going to help them before they even pick up the phone.

[Serapth]

This could be part of the problem, Zone Alarm is a heap of shit.



If it were possible, I'd put money on at least half of those complaining about poor service being argumentative assholes who recieve bad service because they're bad customers.

I used to do customer service for BT (a corporation with more departments than most governments) and even if they had a genuine complaint, I always got people who have thier heart set on being angry and had decided that cust. service aren't going to help them before they even pick up the phone.

Actually, im one of those people. By the time im actually ready to call Customer Service, im normally a cauldren of anger. If I get the slightest bit of attitude, BLAMMO, Mr Grumpy Argumentative, Let ME SPEAK TO YOUR FUCKING MANAGER, comes out.

Then again, in my defence, its normally either Bell or Rogers I need to call. If you are Canadian and have dealt with either of these companies, you will understand.

Oh, that reminds me, I need to call Bell for the 5th month straight to get them to stop billing me for the cell phone I cancelled in MAY! GRRRRR

[Moab Bomb]

Just tell that guy who keeps standing in the top left corner to MOVE. That's what the mic is for...
LOL! Yeah, but i'm a mean bastard that doesn't let his customers use headsets unless they pay an addition $5 for the privelege! Until these new headsets prove to be more durable than the snaptastic old design, I won't loan 'em for free.
And I told the kid to turn his turret on the motionless dude, but he remained standing-stoic and unyielding. Must have had an overshield or sumthin'. And don't ask me my customers put turrets on Lockout. I just roll my eyes and take all of their $1 bills.

I'm off now-I am installing a 720p projector and 5.1 to run on an 8 foot screen! Huzzah!!!

[bean19]

I used to do customer service for BT (a corporation with more departments than most governments) and even if they had a genuine complaint, I always got people who have thier heart set on being angry and had decided that cust. service aren't going to help them before they even pick up the phone.

I'm usually calm when I begin a customer service call, but I get more and more angry the longer I sit on hold and have to listen to horrible music interjected by messages that basically keep saying, "We'll get to you when we get to you."

Also, I really, really hate it when they follow a script and won't let me tell them that I've already done something. But the only time I've ever yelled at someone in customer service was when I sat through the hold session for an hour, jumped through every hoop laid before me, and was then heard the customer service rep.'s voice gushing with innocent surprise as she said, "Gosh, I just don't know what it could be then," and then didn't follow that up by "moving it to the next tier" or offering to send out a technician (this was for my original DSL line some five years ago when they were new in my area).

[Achilles]

Oh, that reminds me, I need to call Bell for the 5th month straight to get them to stop billing me for the cell phone I cancelled in MAY! GRRRRRVerizon's currently doing that to me for a land line I canceled 7 months ago. God I hate them so much. But they deal with it by only giving me a 3 hour floating window in which to call them sometime between the hours of 9 and 5.

[Nerv]

Actually, im one of those people. By the time im actually ready to call Customer Service, im normally a cauldren of anger. If I get the slightest bit of attitude, BLAMMO, Mr Grumpy Argumentative, Let ME SPEAK TO YOUR FUCKING MANAGER, comes out.

You shouldn't be getting "attitude" from a customer service agent, if you do, then that's justified.
The thing is, any manager worth his pay (and mine were) knows who his good people and his bad people are, so if someone starts accusing an agent of being rude or whatever they should know immediatly whether you're bullshitting or not.

People call in pissed off, sure, but if the agent is consistantly polite and helpfull then the only people who stay angry are the assholes who call only to have a fight. (yes, this happened all the time)

[Serapth]

You shouldn't be getting "attitude" from a customer service agent, if you do, then that's justified.
The thing is, any manager worth his pay (and mine were) knows who his good people and his bad people are, so if someone starts accusing an agent of being rude or whatever they should know immediatly whether you're bullshitting or not.

People call in pissed off, sure, but if the agent is consistantly polite and helpfull then the only people who stay angry are the assholes who call only to have a fight. (yes, this happened all the time)

Might be a location based thing then. Here CS Phone reps are about as low down the totem pole as you can get, so its either a proving grounds to get to another level in the company or is students that really couldnt give a fuck either way. Or even worse, its an outsourced phone farm, where the people make jack shit and really tend not to be the happiest bunch. Lets just say, polite CS reps on the phone here are a bit scarce.

Now, once you start dealing with locations where they get paid a bit better, such as banks, frankly the service improves. Ditto for caller assistance type people at the telcos. But the people on the phones for support at local telco's... not generally the happiest, well adjusted people you will find in Canada.

Ironically, the best experiences I tend to have with phoning CS is when I get a switchboard that has been outsourced to India or some other place. They tend to be much politer, escalate your call much quicker, and often much easier to understand. Thats pretty depressing to me :)

Who knows, maybe I just have really really bad luck who answers the phone on the other end.

[King Drewsky]

Moab, that looks like a ghosted image of Backwash. Maybe from a previous game. Thanks for posting the images. Strange things are afoot on the circle green.

Smart move on the headsets, too. Last gen's headsets were craptacular.

[Serapth]

Moab, that looks like a ghosted image of Backwash. Maybe from a previous game. Thanks for posting the images. Strange things are afoot on the circle green.

Smart move on the headsets, too. Last gen's headsets were craptacular.

God, you think so? Form factor wise, I like the new headset much better. But I gotta say, compared to the Xbox headset, the new one seems ultra cheap in construction.

[AniAko]

Ahhh yes, that reminds me of a Cingular story I have.... although I don't want to get into it. Basically I was talking to a phone rep (not customer service) and the phone call ended up in a heated slur fest, ON BOTH ends! Needless to say I emailed customer service and hope the bitch got fired. I was given what I wanted without question, and was the recipient of an apology on behalf of the customer service director. That was all I needed to remain a customer.

[Nerv]

Ironically, the best experiences I tend to have with phoning CS is when I get a switchboard that has been outsourced to India or some other place. They tend to be much politer, escalate your call much quicker, and often much easier to understand. Thats pretty depressing to me :)

I don't doubt that, I usually had to deal with other agents in a centre in Bangalore several times a day, and once they had their training down (there was a shakey month or two at first) they were generally nicer and more helpfull than any of the UK desks. Relativly speaking they were getting paid a lot more than us, (a lot less in actual € and $ but according to an Indian friend - worth far more to someone living there) which no doubt helps their demeanour.

[51|RandoM]

You'd think there wouldn't be much shag carpet left out there to sit your xbox360 in and watch it melt.

[GrinR]

Anyone have any suggestions as to where I might buy one in the SF Bay Area?

[mister_slim]

So I should get a 360 this winter in order to save on my heating bills?

[Dabombpizza]

This could be part of the problem, Zone Alarm is a heap of shit.
If zone alram is a heap of shit, what do you use?

[Dabombpizza]

I don't doubt that, I usually had to deal with other agents in a centre in Bangalore several times a day, and once they had their training down (there was a shakey month or two at first) they were generally nicer and more helpfull than any of the UK desks. Relativly speaking they were getting paid a lot more than us, (a lot less in actual € and $ but according to an Indian friend - worth far more to someone living there) which no doubt helps their demeanour.
See, right now I'm doing tech support crap for Sun, and the employees that call us love talking to some one that speaks English. They absolutely hate the Indian support desk. I've actually delt with them too, and they are freakin' difficult to get to listen to you and what your problem actually is. I guess it all depends on who's training who...

[Magnanimous Gnome]

What color did you get yours in? And did you get the premium package?

Oh, mine has a premium package alright. ;)

Wait a second... :confused:


I've personally had many, many problems with Alltel, my cell phone provider here in bumfuck Nebraska. They've tried to dick me over on something nearly every month. They add "free" things to my phone that I don't notice and then start billing me for them a month or two later. "Oh but sir you didn't call us to cancel that." They slowly lowered my number of free text messages that I can receive to zero and then started billing me everytime one of my friends sends me a text (which I tell them not to). They charged me late fees when my bank statement clearly showed that the check cleared nearly a week before the bill was due.

The worst part is the 20-30 minute wait on the phone everytime I have to call customer service. The wait consists of cheesy music, some chirpy-voiced woman going on and on about how great Alltel and all of their "services" are, and an interjection every 10 seconds to tell me that my wait won't be much longer. By the time I finally get someone I'm usually catatonic.

When I moved it took three calls to finally get them to actually mail the bills to my new address. I finally told the rep. on the third call that the post office wasn't going to forward their bill for much longer, and that I would then just stop paying for my phone and get a different service, which is what I want anyway.

Anyone who has Alltel in your area stay the hell away - I would have too if I could actually get a better phone service here.

Oh, one more thing - one day I waited on the phone for over 30 minutes and got no one, so I decided to just drive to one of their many local offices and get my problem solved there. I get there, go inside, and am instantly greeted by a cheery woman. Once she found out that I was not in fact there to buy something but instead had billing problems, she turned into a complete bitch and very rudely informed me that their offices don't handle billing problems and I would have to go home and call customer service. What the fuck?

/rant

[Nerv]

See, right now I'm doing tech support crap for Sun, and the employees that call us love talking to some one that speaks English. They absolutely hate the Indian support desk. I've actually delt with them too, and they are freakin' difficult to get to listen to you and what your problem actually is. I guess it all depends on who's training who...
Oh, I don't doubt that either, but my experiance with them has been positive.
Not to say that people weren't happier to hear an Irish accent than an Indian one, but the majority of people who complained about that were so casually racist in thier complaints that I didn't take much credence in them.

If zone alram is a heap of shit, what do you use?
I have never, ever seen Zone Alarm fail to break something.
In my dsl tech job, and even though we were supposed to recommend ZA (BT had some sort of deal worked out) anyone doing so would be taken behind the chemical sheds and shot.

I use a hardware firewall.
I suggest Kerio Personal Firewall (http://www.kerio.com/kpf_home.html), I have used it before and had no issues with it.
Sygate Personal Firewall (http://soho.sygate.com/products/spf_standard.htm) comes recommended, but I haven't tried it yet.

[Dabombpizza]

I use a hardware firewall.
I suggest Kerio Personal Firewall (http://www.kerio.com/kpf_home.html), I have used it before and had no issues with it.
Sygate Personal Firewall (http://soho.sygate.com/products/spf_standard.htm) comes recommended, but I haven't tried it yet.
Kerio is going out of business. What hardware firewall do you use?

[GrinR]

Norton Internet Security 2005. Load it. Live it. Love it.

Used to be a ZoneAlarms guy - gave it up since NIS2005 came out. It's the shiite.

[mattpeckham]

Allegedly, the failure rate is around 15%.

10%? 15%? Where are you guys getting these numbers??? Anyone care to site a scientific study? The gaming community's Drudge Report sites have one (or is it up to a dozen now?) people taking screen shots of a handful of systems going kablooey, and all of a sudden we're up to 15%??? Take 15% of the total number of 360s shipped do far - that's how many you're implying are failing. Anyone care to source this with hard data? If it's happening, great, educate us with scientific numbers, not this endless rumormongering. I want gossip, I'll grab an Enquirer.

Oi vey, people!

[Kelegacy]

So I should get a 360 this winter in order to save on my heating bills?

I've been told that the Xbox 360 is the spiritual prequel to Waterworld.

[51|RandoM]

Norton Internet Security 2005. Load it. Live it. Love it.

Used to be a ZoneAlarms guy - gave it up since NIS2005 came out. It's the shiite.

Don't really understand why people pay for 3rd party port blockers, when XP has one built in. Must be ease of use, I suppose.

[Serapth]

Don't really understand why people pay for 3rd party port blockers, when XP has one built in. Must be ease of use, I suppose.

Im more shocked more people dont have hardware firewalls. Almost every router, from the 59$ special up, has a firewall built in ( ahh... my trusty linksys ), and frankly so do alot of DSL modems. I find it hard to believe much of a market still exists for SW firewalls.

[bone_matrix]

10%? 15%? Where are you guys getting these numbers???... Oi vey, people!

If you would have read some more before you wanted to bitch, you would have read this little number:

Ahh, the 15% figure. This was reported on NPR too by a technology "expert" in Seattle. Where did it come from?
The first reference to it on a board that I found was on SlashDot. An Anonymous Coward said the rate was 15% and backed up his claim with this survey:
http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=392599

So, an anonymous voluntary survey is the source for this figure that is now being repeated everywhere. Until someone calls up a bunch of places, lists the results and the places they called (to make sure they aren't making it up) there is no reliable figure.
I though about doing this the other day, but just didn't care enough. . . any real failure reports would be buried by rumors and made-up facts.

-Ruprect

Magnanimous Gnome, I'm also from Lincoln. Don't ever get Cellular One, it sucks WORSE than Alltel. I unfortunately know from experience.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Magnanimous Gnome, I'm also from Lincoln. Don't ever get Cellular One, it sucks WORSE than Alltel. I unfortunately know from experience.


I've heard this from several people, so I've avoided Cell One like the plague.

Luckily I am moving to Minneapolis, MN in two weeks. I still have a contract with Alltel through June 2006, but I might just buy out of it and get a better service in MPLS.

[RandomViolence]

Minneapolis!! Are you moving directly into the city or one of the suburbs?

[Speed_D]

Im more shocked more people dont have hardware firewalls. Almost every router, from the 59$ special up, has a firewall built in ( ahh... my trusty linksys ), and frankly so do alot of DSL modems. I find it hard to believe much of a market still exists for SW firewalls.
Your average consumer router doesn't allow you to control outbound traffic. Which doesn't seem like a big deal except when you step back to think about spyware. It's safer to have afirewall setup that denies outbound traffic by default, and then you permit specific apps to talk on the internet. That way if some spyware or undocumented "feature" of a normal program tries to call home or contact a site without your permission, it gets blocked and logged.

It's just one more layer you can add to run a secure system.

[AniAko]

Your average consumer router doesn't allow you to control outbound traffic. Which doesn't seem like a big deal except when you step back to think about spyware. It's safer to have afirewall setup that denies outbound traffic by default, and then you permit specific apps to talk on the internet. That way if some spyware or undocumented "feature" of a normal program tries to call home or contact a site without your permission, it gets blocked and logged.

It's just one more layer you can add to run a secure system.

It's not too bad today. WinXP Service pack 2 controls outbound traffic, but not inbound, and like you said, most consumer routers only conrtol inbound. That's just enough security for your average Joe.

Unluckily, you can't stop some of these freaks from opening every freaking email they recieve and clicking on every link on a webpage.

[IagoTheHunted]

I havn't had any problems with mine, aside from Perfect Dark freezing once when I tried to access the dashboard (I'd say that was almost certainly a game bug rather than a hardware issue though).
Our experience with the dev kit we've had for a while now (which also runs hot) is just that you need to keep it verticle in a well ventalated area and you'll be fine... probably alot of the people with problems are putting it horizontal on carpet or something like that. You could argue it kinda sucks that the thing is so prone to overheating, but then again when you consider the power your getting from such a small package it's not really unexpected. Overall I've been quite pleased.