Lara Croft Heading For Redesign

[lost]

Because it's never management's fault it looks like Eidos may be looking towards another redesign of Lara Croft following a 500,000 unit shortfall in sales. This follows lay-offs at developer Crystal Dynamics as they get bitten in the ass for focusing on the Tomb Raider property. From The Times, Eidos' chief financial officer.

Eidos is considering revising the look and play of her Tomb Raider adventures, which may see efforts to make her more female-friendly, in an attempt to revive sales of games starring the pneumatic archaeologist.

Robert Brent, the chief financial officer of Eidos, said: “We need to look at everything, as we develop the next game. Look at how Batman changed succesfully, from the rather sad character of the Michael Keaton era to the noir style of The Dark Knight.”

More right here. (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/technology/article5485017.ece)

Because, you know, it has to be that women didn't buy the game and not because you overestimated sales in a busy period. Let's not even start on the Batman comment.

[Earth Djinn]

But they just did this! Like two years ago! And they actually succeeded in improving the franchise!

Oh god, they're totally gonna ruin it now aren't they?

[Fartacus]

I don't understand why Eidos aren't counting their lucky stars that Underworld sold 1.5 million units. The original Tomb Raider was a fluke. It was a fun and original (but severely flawed) game at the time, but it simply doesn't have the staying power to support a franchise. When are the suits at Eidos going to get this through their thick skulls?

[lost]

And what exactly is female friendly? Smaller boobs? Not everybody is an a-cup.

I think girls actually like Lara Croft, she's a pretty positive character.

[HarverdGrad]

The original Tomb Raider was a fluke. It was a fun and original (but severely flawed) game at the time

I played it from beginning to end and enjoyed every step of the way. What was "severely flawed" about the game?

[StANTo]

I played it from beginning to end and enjoyed every step of the way. What was "severely flawed" about the game?

Her legs stretching around rocks like a dislocated gymnast perhaps?

[RUSKULL]

Her legs stretching around rocks like a dislocated gymnast perhaps?

Sounds perfectly fine to me, I'd say it's our reality that's wrong :p

Regardless, if they can't come up with a compelling idea for a new game ip, they're not going to come up with a compelling idea for an old one.

[riposte101]

1.5 million units is a lot of units. The series obviously still has a large following. Expectations were a bit high for a game that is essentailly an expansion pack to Legend.

[Testcase]

Her legs stretching around rocks like a dislocated gymnast perhaps?

If that's your bar for 'severely flawed', then, man, you have got the WRONG hobby. :D

[Rafer]

I think Tomb Raider Legend was great, but it was a last-gen game, I played it on PS2 and the 360 version looked nice but it was clearly a hi-res last-gen game.

I think the problem with Underworld is that it looked out of date. It doesn't look like Assassin's Creed or Uncharted. Especially Lara's design, if they had just updated the character model more, made her less cartoony and look more like, say, Sheva Alomar (Resident Evil 5) I think the game would have grabbed more people's attention.

[Flatpicker]

The 1st game in the series was simply alright. What drove the sales back then was the media's fascination with Lara as a character. She crossed over into popular culture, but, her 15 mins are over.

The more I hear, The less I like Eidos. Seems like they are a bunch of clueless suits running the company.

Are the connected with Bain Capital LLC? These moves sound like their work...

[T-Rex Commando]

And what exactly is female friendly? Smaller boobs? Not everybody is an a-cup.

I think girls actually like Lara Croft, she's a pretty positive character.
Yes. I believe you're 100% correct. Lara isn't "female friendly" because she's too curvy, so I'm betting that not only will her bust size be reduced but she'll be wearing a looser/less revealing outfit. She'll end up looking more like Jade from Beyond Good and Evil or Alyx from HL2 by the time they're done. Big boobs are bad, you know. Female video game players can't be subjected to possible feelings of chest size inferiority,

[ScottTFrazer]

Way to miss the point of the Dark Knight completely, Eidos. It succeeded because it was an artistic vision that was allowed to come to fruition without focus groups or board meetings to determine if it would sell.

Design Tomb Raider by committee and you'll get a far worse product that you have now.

[laggerific]

Why not connect it to the new James Bond movies? What about Lara as a kid...when she was raw and unrefined?

[Your Good Twin]

No, let's start on the Batman comment because it hilariously exemplifies how the "suits" do not understand a fucking thing about media. This is exactly like how that Take-Two moron commented on BioShock being able to spawn 5 sequels. “But, then again, look at Star Wars. It’s a fight between good and evil, just like Bioshock. If we spin it the right way and get the right twist of innovation, we can make six parts of it, as Star Wars did." I don't want to drag that all up again, but I bring it up just to help point out how ridiculously inept corporate is when it comes to this stuff.

Look, morons, let your creative team do what they think is right and then release it correctly (timing, marketing) and shut the fuck up.

[SuperMonkeyFighter2]

Wow ... these guys are simply stupid.

[aries100]

From what I've heard from the Tombraider fans on the varius websites I frequent is that TR:Underworld actually brought back the feeling, the gameplay and the Lara Croft character from the first Lara Croft game.

And yes, the suits at EIDOS have proved (once again) that they haven understood a thing. The re-making of the Batman series started with Batman Begins; it was succesfull because the writers etc. took the Batman lore seriously and worked with in a very positive and construvtive way. And because in the Batman universe and lore, there are grounds for making a darker, more noir character than say the Batman movies from the 1990's. Not so in the Tomb Raider games.

It might be fiction, but there still needs to a bit of reality in fiction. At least when it come to the fiction of reality.

And selling 1.5 million copies in the first 6 weeks? Wasn't that the same as Fallout 3 sold in the first 6 weeks (in the US), too? I don't understand why all publishing houses want their games to sell like 2 million games (or SDKs) during the first 6-8 week after their initial release. And I don't think a sale of 2 million games in the first 6 weeks were at all realistic given the situation of the economy at the moment.

[Zeal]

out of all the overrated, boring piece of shit game series out there, tomb raider ranks #1. after so many failed reboots, please take a clue and retire this crap.

[Zeal]

oh, and i also find it ironic how every possible reboot of every franchise in history is now looking at The Dark Knight as their inspiration.

this means less hollywood crap, more art.

[ElektroDragon]

And what exactly is female friendly? Smaller boobs? Not everybody is an a-cup.

I think girls actually like Lara Croft, she's a pretty positive character.

That was my thought, and its completely stupid. My wife has no problem with Lara's dimensions, they seem average to her.

But I think they will mess her up by making her into a military character. Considering all the Gamerchix and other women gamers seems to want to play are the brutal military games like Gears and COD. My wife and I do not understand this. We wife actually wants to see more games that would appeal to normal women, not "I'm so envious of the boys and their military games I want to be just like them and show them up" women. And not the other extreme of all pinks and dolls either...

[Kwatsu]

oh, and i also find it ironic how every possible reboot of every franchise in history is now looking at The Dark Knight as their inspiration.

this means less hollywood crap, more art.

Seems to be the answer to a lot of franchises right now if they've gone wrong or gone on too long. I agree it worked for Batman, and maybe for James Bond (though time will tell) but executives can't just tag everything with '-Begins', tip a bucket of realistic grit over it and think that'll solve the problems.

[Fartacus]

I played it from beginning to end and enjoyed every step of the way. What was "severely flawed" about the game?

I played it from beginning to end, and enjoyed it as well. But the combat was boring, the graphics got in the way of gameplay (it was hard to discern features that could be interacted with because of the bad lighting and noisy textures), and the camera was frustrating.

[Fartacus]

Yes. I believe you're 100% correct. Lara isn't "female friendly" because she's too curvy, so I'm betting that not only will her bust size be reduced but she'll be wearing a looser/less revealing outfit. She'll end up looking more like Jade from Beyond Good and Evil or Alyx from HL2 by the time they're done. Big boobs are bad, you know. Female video game players can't be subjected to possible feelings of chest size inferiority,

They'll probably make her fat so that *ahem* "plus-size" *ahem* women don't feel any threat to self-esteem. I think that's what making her female friendly means.

[lost]

Proof that girls who game can have jugs.

http://www.nvidia.co.uk/page/eswc_13.html

There is of course the other possibility. They make Lara a cartoon character and shove her in a world of Wii mini-games.

[Slade]

"Make her more female-friendly"? I thought that was one of the primary reasons for the first redesign Lara Croft underwent. Regarding that, there's nothing really wrong with her current design -- she looks fine with those proportions. And as far as most female VG characters go, isn't Lara Croft now one of the more respectable ones?

There may be issues with the sales performance of the recent Tomb Raider games, but the design of the character isn't part of the problem. Eidos should look deeper.

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

Proof that girls who game can have jugs.

http://www.nvidia.co.uk/page/eswc_13.html

There is of course the other possibility. They make Lara a cartoon character and shove her in a world of Wii mini-games.

Heheh and theyre all ugly as well.

I want this reverse sexism bullshit out of my video games already. A lot of women like Lara and Im pretty sure thats why the series was as popular as it was.

[Von Sol]

Cell shade the bitch. Make her a Saturday morning cartoon.

Solved.

[T-Rex Commando]

Proof that girls who game can have jugs.

http://www.nvidia.co.uk/page/eswc_13.html

They're all hot, but none of them are all that busty and they reek of that "GAM3R GRRRL" bullshit where companies hire attractive women and display them as pro gamers because lonely nerds will worship them (and the games they happen to play). Ubisoft has something like that, I believe. Aside from Jade Raymond, I mean.

[oldschooldimo]

female friendly? weak.. women need to suck it up if they feel "inadequate" by playing tomb raider. its not like i cry myself to sleep at night cause the guys in gears of war have arms the size of bulldozers and im some skinny guy.

[Slade]

They're all hot, but none of them are all that busty and they reek of that "GAM3R GRRRL" bullshit where companies hire attractive women and display them as pro gamers because lonely nerds will worship them (and the games they happen to play).
This particular gaming trend needs to just die. We get it, folks. Women play video games too. There's no need to shove out a new manufactured G4M3R GRRRRL clan every 3 months to remind us of that.

Ubisoft has something like that, I believe. Aside from Jade Raymond, I mean.
Haven't played it myself, but the new Banjo-Kazooie has an apparently hilarious scene taking a shot at the Frag Dolls.

[vivafletcher]

The problem with Underworld is that it's literally half a game. It was undone by word of mouth; even the biggest Tomb Raider fans were compalining about the length. I think people stayed away because of that. For that reason, I think 1.5 million is a big success. It shows a lot of people were willing to give it a chance.

It really is a lot of fun for a few hours.

[bulldozer.sweden]

I thought that Underworld was a good "Tomb Raider game" (much better than the "newly" released TR games). The TR franchise haven't really been what is was some years ago and I think they tried to redesign and develop TR constantly. So "redesigning" for "the next game" is what they mostly have done, in my opinion.

[DingBat]

Because, you know, it has to be that women didn't buy the game and not because you overestimated sales in a busy period. Let's not even start on the Batman comment.

Man, you guys totally don't get it, do you?

It doesn't matter if the overestimated the sales or not. The fact is that their overall plan demands x sales for y investment. If they don't get that then one of two things is going to happen: they're going to drop the franchise and find something else or they're going to re-design the current franchise so it has another chance of hitting the target.

Frankly, with Tomb Raider, I'm ok either way.

If you don't like what they come up with, don't buy it. But let's please put an end to the whining about the economic realities of the games industry as if we were open source nutjobs.

[Froggy]

female friendly? weak.. women need to suck it up if they feel "inadequate" by playing tomb raider. its not like i cry myself to sleep at night cause the guys in gears of war have arms the size of bulldozers and im some skinny guy.

Couldn't agree more. I actually enjoy the tounge-in-cheek over-puffed gears guys. It's a joke, and it plays well. I'm not big or strong, but I don't have image issues beacuse some meat-head in a video game is. I identify better with characters like Altair, who are a little less muscular, but it really doesn't matter to me.

Maybe I'm a tit bit superficial for saying this, but I don't want to play as a fat Lara. She does gymnast/monkey tricks, and an extra 100 pounds would prevent that from happenning. Is it weird and awful that I think heroes should be in peak physical condition?

Also, in Underworld you could choose between a sexy or conservative outfit in most levels.

[vallor]

The 1st game in the series was simply alright. What drove the sales back then was the media's fascination with Lara as a character. She crossed over into popular culture, but, her 15 mins are over.

The more I hear, The less I like Eidos. Seems like they are a bunch of clueless suits running the company.

Are the connected with Bain Capital LLC? These moves sound like their work...

I'm not sure why they are bitching about 1.5m units. That is not a "poor" showing by any stretch of the imagination. TR hasn't been in the Gears/Halo/GTA/MGS category for a long time now, perhaps the projections should have taken that into account.

I think the technology was the spring board of the series. The media didn't really pick up on her until later, IMO it was really the incredible 3D environments and the Indiana Jones feeling that launched the series.

I think Lara herself is a brand that Edios should be capitalizing on, not necessarly TR. Sort of like how Mario shows up in games of all different genres.

If they want to revitalize TR maybe they can try taking Lara out of the mix and using a different character and find out if it is Lara or the design of the TR games that is causing the failing. Then spin Lara off into an entirely different genre.

The relative success of Uncharted shows that people enjoy that sort of environment and story, but again this is only if you count 1.5m units as a failure.

[aries100]

Man, you guys totally don't get it, do you?

It doesn't matter if the overestimated the sales or not. The fact is that their overall plan demands x sales for y investment. If they don't get that then one of two things is going to happen: they're going to drop the franchise and find something else or they're going to re-design the current franchise so it has another chance of hitting the target.

Frankly, with Tomb Raider, I'm ok either way.

If you don't like what they come up with, don't buy it. But let's please put an end to the whining about the economic realities of the games industry as if we were open source nutjobs.

Frankly, I get it.

What I don't get is why 1.5 million sales of games (or SDKs) in SIX WEEKS are a major FAIULURE for Eidos (sorry for the caps, but this time it needed it immensely...)

What I don't get is why Eidos projected a sales of 2 million games in 6 weeks (before the end of 2008?) in the current financial and market situation, at least in the US?

What I don't get is why every publisher out there won't be happy with a sale of 3 million in say 12 weeks rather than a say sale of 2 million in 6 weeks. I get that investors want their money back; sometimes you need to look at the broader longer return of your investment, not just the short term (greedy) need for money right here, right now.

And why, oh why does every game publishing houses still insists that major releases needs to come out for the Holidays (or Christmas for those not placed in the US)?? I don't get it.

Summer movies are doing great. Why can't a game like TR: Underworld come out in say June 2009 instead of November 2008. Gives the developer more time to finish and polish the game - unless Eidos really needed to money to save the company?

[Demo_Boy]

It seems to me that the problems with the latest Tomb Raider were as follows:
1. Not quite long enough
2. Previous game in series was weaker - causing customer confidence issues
3. Too many market competitors in same window
4. Minor camera and combat control issues.

So overall, redeveloping the Tomb Raider formula seems riskier than doing a straight sequel?

[Flatpicker]

I'm not sure why they are bitching about 1.5m units. That is not a "poor" showing by any stretch of the imagination. TR hasn't been in the Gears/Halo/GTA/MGS category for a long time now, perhaps the projections should have taken that into account.

I think the technology was the spring board of the series. The media didn't really pick up on her until later, IMO it was really the incredible 3D environments and the Indiana Jones feeling that launched the series.

I think Lara herself is a brand that Edios should be capitalizing on, not necessarly TR. Sort of like how Mario shows up in games of all different genres.

If they want to revitalize TR maybe they can try taking Lara out of the mix and using a different character and find out if it is Lara or the design of the TR games that is causing the failing. Then spin Lara off into an entirely different genre.

The relative success of Uncharted shows that people enjoy that sort of environment and story, but again this is only if you count 1.5m units as a failure.

From what I was reading, the 2006 installment sold 3 million units and they were expecting the same numbers.
Just seems like the q4 season killed the title.

[beefyjr]

Frankly, I get it.

What I don't get is why 1.5 million sales of games (or SDKs) in SIX WEEKS are a major FAIULURE for Eidos (sorry for the caps, but this time it needed it immensely...)

What I don't get is why Eidos projected a sales of 2 million games in 6 weeks (before the end of 2008?) in the current financial and market situation, at least in the US?

What I don't get is why every publisher out there won't be happy with a sale of 3 million in say 12 weeks rather than a say sale of 2 million in 6 weeks. I get that investors want their money back; sometimes you need to look at the broader longer return of your investment, not just the short term (greedy) need for money right here, right now.

And why, oh why does every game publishing houses still insists that major releases needs to come out for the Holidays (or Christmas for those not placed in the US)?? I don't get it.

Summer movies are doing great. Why can't a game like TR: Underworld come out in say June 2009 instead of November 2008. Gives the developer more time to finish and polish the game - unless Eidos really needed to money to save the company?

Well, the lion's share of most new games' sales do come in that first six-week window, so I get why that's their benchmark. Other than that, I agree with you. There are a few games this year that would have done better either getting pushed back or up. Dead Space and Mirror's Edge come immediately to mind.

[lost]

From what I was reading, the 2006 installment sold 3 million units and they were expecting the same numbers.
Just seems like the q4 season killed the title.

3 million total units or 3 million in the first 6 weeks?

There was far more buzz around that title, it being the return of Lara Croft and a definite step in the right direction.