Soccer Sim Developer Reports 90% Piracy Rate

[Emabulator]

Shacknews is reporting (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/56607) Beautiful Game Studios, developer of the Championship Manager series of PC soccer sims, has stated they've been victimized by thieves to the tune of a 90% piracy rate.

"That's not just a number in the air, we can measure it and we know that there are a huge amount of pirated copies," said Beautiful GM Roy Meredith.

World of Goo co-creator Ron Carmel recently stated (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/55906) that his game was suffering from a 90% piracy rate--though Carmel later lowered the estimated figure to a still-staggering 82%.

Despite Meredith's obvious concern regarding piracy, he recognizes that adding DRM copy protection to the upcoming Championship Manager 2009 could create even more problems.

[Fonz]

I'm a huge PC gamer, but this just pisses me off, at times I feel like companies should just not develop for the PC for a few years instead of putting DRM on their games. Just don't give people games at all. If people wont pay for them anyways, why make them. I know steam is a huge plus, but you still see those games disc form being pirated.

Microsoft bans people from XBL for modded xbox's why cant developers put DRM to ban users from their games? I hate PC gamers out there and post on amazon and bitch about DRM then go and pirate that very game just to protest the DRM. Those morons are killing PC gaming yet they feel entitlement to everything.

[AversionFX]

82-90% of piracy is a "big shocking number!" But I want to see how many people have actually bought the game to begin with. My guess would be "not too many."

[vallor]

But I want to see how many people have actually bought the game to begin with. My guess would be "not too many."

I would guess that 82% - 90% fewer people bought the game than are actually playing it. I personally don't think how many copies are sold should even really be a factor of deciding if this is good or bad. When every 1 sold has 3 pirated the economy of scale doesn't even begin to negate the impact unless you're talking GTA 4 level scale.

Would you say the situation is better with "not too many" copies sold or is the situation worse because at lower levels every penny counts?

Also, from all accounts World of Goo is a great indie game; not a piece of garbage that somehow "deserves" to be pirated.

[Fonz]

Vallor that was actually insightful and had thought in it.. AversionFX thats the same attitude I'm talking about with PC gamers that are killing the industry "how many did it sell? it must be a shit game so pirate it" . Glad to see two different Spectrum of opinions.. one is worthless the other isn't.

[JazGalaxy]

I would guess that 82% - 90% fewer people bought the game than are actually playing it. I personally don't think how many copies are sold should even really be a factor of deciding if this is good or bad. When every 1 sold has 3 pirated the economy of scale doesn't even begin to negate the impact unless you're talking GTA 4 level scale.

Would you say the situation is better with "not too many" copies sold or is the situation worse because at lower levels every penny counts?

Also, from all accounts World of Goo is a great indie game; not a piece of garbage that somehow "deserves" to be pirated.

As someone who has pirated games in the past I find this topic to be extremely complex.

I pirated the original Alone In The Dark way back in the day by making copies of the games installation disks from a friend. I then went on to buy the next to games in the series and be a staunch proponent of the series for years afterwards.

I feel like , at least to some degree, people will pay for what they like.

I'm not saying piracy is in any way good, but at the same time, the structure of the videogames industry in one in which the consumer is placed in a role of speculating on whether or not anything is any good. Is that in any way fair? Are we to feel bad about taking some of that control back?

Should Parker Brothers be putting DRM on its board games so that nobody could ever play a game of monopoly without paying for it?

Again, piracy is a crappy way to behave, but I feel the the games industry isn't structured in a way to make us NOT want to pirate.

Bring back the days of pack ins and instruction manuals...

[Meatgortex]

I'm not saying piracy is in any way good, but at the same time, the structure of the videogames industry in one in which the consumer is placed in a role of speculating on whether or not anything is any good. Is that in any way fair?

There are a lot of half-valid excuses used for piracy.
- Annoyance with overly aggressive DRM
- "try before you buy"
- Games cost too much

In Championship managers case none of these are valid
- No DRM
- It has a demo
- It costs $29

Despite these common excuses that's not why most people pirate. They do it because it's convenient, free and the reality is that you won't get caught. Those three are a powerful combination that unfortunately bring out the worst in people.

[silv]

I know people at work who pirate everything, hack all of their consoles, and literally won't buy a console until its hacked. They don't pay for any games, music, movies, or even cable (TV).

Straight internet connection and just download away. It really irritates me.

[automaton]

I think pirating World of Goo is really pathetic. If you can't pay 20 bucks for a great game, you really need to get a new hobby. You are killing mine.

[Mozgus]

Let the pirates be pirates; customers be customers. Many of us have been both. If someone pirating a videogame actually bothers any of you, you need to re-evaluate your lives.

[Mozgus]

Let the pirates be pirates; customers be customers. Many of us have been both. If someone pirating a videogame actually bothers any of you, you need to re-evaluate your lives.

Also being an indie game does not automatically make it a great game. World of Goo was not fucking great. I pirated it, and uninstalled it in an hour. That's not a lost sale. I got a demo's worth out of the damn thing. (I have no idea if there was a legal demo out there anyway.) I made a judgment call. I chose both not to buy it, and not to play it.

Now Iji (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33mxD4FjD3w) is an indie game that's far superior, and it's completely free. But I never hear anyone praising that one. Fuck this World of Goo bandwagon.

[ascl]

Someone pirating a videogame affects me in several ways so yes, it bothers me. Firstly, as a developer, it directly affects my bottom line, and secondly, as a PC gamer, it is making the PC platform less attractive, and making game companies less profitable and therefore less likely to make games that are not 'safe' (ie sequels). It also means that budgets for all PC games (and to a lesser extent console games) are less than they could be, because some of the potential profit is lost due to piracy (which translates to games that are not as good as they could be).

Lastly, it means I (and other legitimate users) and stuck with shitty DRM.

So don't tell me to re-evaluate my life in some lame attempt to justify YOUR scumbag behaviour.

I dont for a second think that removing piracy would increase any games sales be 82 or 90%, but I do definitely believe it would increase game sales a significant amount. 90% is a shocking figure, regardless of what you believe is the quality of the game

[lockwoodx]

His game must have sucked if nobody wanted to pay for it.

[silv]

His game must have sucked if nobody wanted to pay for it.

This is my entire point above.

I know quite a lot of people who pirate games and enjoy them immensely, and never buy them.

While YOU may make some judgment call about whether or not a game delivered enough enjoyment that should it is worth compensating the people who made it, don't make the mistake of assuming everyone does.

[Mozgus]

Someone pirating a videogame affects me in several ways so yes, it bothers me. Firstly, as a developer, it directly affects my bottom line, and secondly, as a PC gamer, it is making the PC platform less attractive, and making game companies less profitable and therefore less likely to make games that are not 'safe' (ie sequels). It also means that budgets for all PC games (and to a lesser extent console games) are less than they could be, because some of the potential profit is lost due to piracy (which translates to games that are not as good as they could be).

Lastly, it means I (and other legitimate users) and stuck with shitty DRM.

So don't tell me to re-evaluate my life in some lame attempt to justify YOUR scumbag behaviour.

I dont for a second think that removing piracy would increase any games sales be 82 or 90%, but I do definitely believe it would increase game sales a significant amount. 90% is a shocking figure, regardless of what you believe is the quality of the game
90% is also a completely bullshit made-up figure that shouldn't be tossed around like fact.

Also, don't call me a scumbag. I buy tons of games. I just don't buy shitty games.

Neither side of this argument will ever have hard evidence to backup any claims. I claim that piracy doesn't hurt the industry. You claim it does. The only evidence I have to back that claim up are my, and my friends' purchasing habits. I am living proof that piracy actually has a positive effect on the industry. Piracy has gotten me to BUY games I would have otherwise skipped. It's never caused me to not buy a game (unless it's old ROMs that the developer can't see a penny from anyway).

It's always funny how the self-proclaimed saintly customers like yourself are always the first to resort to name-calling. The reason why you have such rage over this debate is because you have stupidly bought many horrible games over the years without using piracy as a means of gauging their quality. You don't like feeling alone with your mistakes.

Pirates and semi-pirates on the other hand are just here to have fun.

Also, it's in our human nature to only pay what we feel something is worth. There are hundreds of games that aren't worth any price at all. Some offer experiences so fucking awful, that we should be paid to play them.

Quite possibly my favorite point is that by using piracy to filter what I buy, I'm actively keeping the industry from drowning in a sea of shit games. By buying the good games, and avoiding the bad ones, I'm helping show publishers that lazy efforts can't make a profit anymore. The more people who do this, the better.

But if you just want to keep relying on bribed reviews, PR hype machines, and misleading demos, be my guest. Yeah, please, let's get more World of Goo's up in here. Let's just speed up that fucking industry crash as much as possible.

[MurderSandwich]

WORDS


You are so far up your own arse, it's amazing.

[Mozgus]

You are so far up your own arse, it's amazing.

It's the only home I know. :)

[JazGalaxy]

It's the only home I know. :)

another thing to concider, especially when we're talking about World of Goo, is that some games just aren't purchase worthy games. There are a number of games that I would play, thoroughly enjoy and never ever spend money on. It's just the way of things and developers should take that into consideration when making games.

Alex Albrech from the totally rad show said something similar about a movie recently. He thoroughly enjoyed it but would he ever see again, reccomend it, or go out of his way to see any sort of sequel?no.

[ascl]

90% is also a completely bullshit made-up figure that shouldn't be tossed around like fact.

Also, don't call me a scumbag. I buy tons of games. I just don't buy shitty games.


I called pirating scumbag behavior, if you want to attribute that label to yourself, go ahead.

While I agree that 90% IS a bullshit figure, I totally fail to see how you can think pirating has no affect. I know far too many people that pirate games when they do not need to, and if were given no other option would buy games.

Where I live, you buy a DS and IT COMES WITH an SDCard adapter loaded with games. Its hard to buy a Wii that isn't chipped. Are you seriously trying to say this doesn't impact games sales?

[92miata]

Let the pirates be pirates; customers be customers. Many of us have been both. If someone pirating a videogame actually bothers any of you, you need to re-evaluate your lives.

good one.....

you should see my mp3 collection. it is ....ah, not much.....:)

[Fonz]

BULLSHIT WORDS INSERTED HERE

Your retarded logic states then that we should steal milky way bars because they're not as good as snickers bars. You infantile reactions proves you sir are indeed the problem. If you don't want to pay for a "shitty" game then don't, but don't play it for free either.

[Fonz]

(I miss the edit button)Bleh and also, You don't appreciate people calling you scumbag? People don't appreciate you Stealing their shit. Again you act like an infant and you prove my point about pirates feeling like they have entitlement to every for free because they know how to click a bittorrent link.

[Qoz]

Mozgus must be trolling.
You can't have the intelligence to type and still write such bullshit.

You portray a scenario where you use piracy as demo'ing the games you buy.

This is NOT a problem. You are not a pirate then.

But it is bullshit to claim, that all people behave like this.
Likely it is just used as an excuse to justify pirating..
Also you need to only play the game for 10-20 minutes, or else IT IS piracy.

[Mozgus]

I made countless good points and no one has been able to argue any of them. My work here is done, lol.

[Xed]

You portray a scenario where you use piracy as demo'ing the games you buy.

This is NOT a problem. You are not a pirate then.
But the people who do this (or uninstall after 5 minutes after deciding they don't like the game or whatever) are still included in the estimates about how much a game is pirated. Admittedly, chances are there are very, very few people out there who actually buy games they've already pirated, but still: Numbers like the ones given here are bullshit.

Also you need to only play the game for 10-20 minutes, or else IT IS piracy.
Demos that only last 10-20 minutes are part of the problem. That is not enough time to accurately judge wether a game is worth buying or not, at least not at full price.

[Xed]

Your retarded logic states then that we should steal milky way bars because they're not as good as snickers bars.

His logic is retarded, but so is your post for comparing copyright infringement to stealing. Fail.

[Mozgus]

His logic is retarded, but so is your post for comparing copyright infringement to stealing. Fail.

This is the first time I've ever found someone who knows the difference. Thank god.

[Demo_Boy]

Claiming all game demos are misrepresentative of the actual product, to then justify pirating games to act as a "genuine demo", is scumbag pirate BS.

You don't want to pay for the game? Fine. Have the balls not to play it.

[AversionFX]

AversionFX thats the same attitude I'm talking about with PC gamers that are killing the industry "how many did it sell? it must be a shit game so pirate it" .

Yes, because my opinion towards piracy is what's bad for the industry. Rather than the overall quality of titles being released for my platform of choice.

Seriously? My attitude is more of an impact than the heaps of bad games that manage to get released? Get the fuck over yourself.

Claiming all game demos are misrepresentative of the actual product, to then justify pirating games to act as a "genuine demo", is scumbag pirate BS.

You don't want to pay for the game? Fine. Have the balls not to play it.

Remove your head from your ass. Video game sales should not be a trap. HAHA, I got your 50$! Enjoy your bad game, sucker! No. As a consumer, I have every right to make an educated decision on how I spend my money. Most games I download, I buy. If I don't buy it, it's because it was not worth the money to me. I don't see anyone getting up in arms about people test-driving cars. It's the same concept, on a smaller level.

[vallor]

Video game sales should not be a trap. HAHA, I got your 50$! Enjoy your bad game, sucker!

I very much agree with this. Blame the pirates for this nice little trap too.

When I was a wee lad you could take games back to the store for a refund. When I grew up some and was working in a computer retail store piracy was rampant and so easily accessible that stores stopped giving refunds for software and would only allow an exchanging a defective title for the same title if the software was opened. Too many people buying a game, copying it, then returning the game at the store for a refund.

Eventually only EB would take back games no questions asked. Then that ended and here we are today.

Thank your local pirate for the "trap" that buying games has become. It is a problem that doesn't really have a solution unless every game releases a demo with at least 25% of the content in it, but even that won't satisfy a number of pirates; it will only satisfy those (IMO few people) who do actually follow up their illegal behavior with a purchase of games that they enjoy.

Heck, even in this thread there is someone admitting to pirating the first Alone in the Dark and buying the second game. The first game was good enough to hook them on the franchise but not good enough to justify a purchase of that game? Go go gadget Noble Software Pirate.

[Froggy]

I have insurance against buying bad games. It's called Gamefly.

I like how pirates think they're Robin Hood. I like how people who download games from BitTorrent think they're super elite. I really like it when people claim to be hackers who aren't. That just tickles my giblets.

The Sex Pistols didn't show up to their inaguration to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. That's how to do it, fellas; not by stealing from some tiny, independent game company.

[Xed]

Heck, even in this thread there is someone admitting to pirating the first Alone in the Dark and buying the second game. The first game was good enough to hook them on the franchise but not good enough to justify a purchase of that game? Go go gadget Noble Software Pirate.
Eh. I don't see much of a problem with this. It's where the whole "Oh, but I wouldn't have bought it anyway" thing comes into play. I know that it sounds like a cheap excuse, but I'd bet that for most of the stuff people download, it's actually true. The developer is still better off with someone copying the first game and buying the second than they are when someone buys neither game and/or pirates both.

[drakkarim]

But if you just want to keep relying on bribed reviews, PR hype machines, and misleading demos, be my guest

there is a truth in the above.

demos more and more often get released conveniently AFTER the games hit retail, with the usual excuse "we're too busy finishing the game to put together a demo", yet they're not to busy to be shoving the crap out the door with patches waiting or already in the works before boxes even appear on the shelves.

anyway, things are a mess, i agree, but no clue how to do anything about it. 360/wii/ds/ps2/psp are plagued with the same problems though, they just like to pretend they're not, or perhaps that it just hasn't been quite as widespread, yet...

[Wolfgang]

What other entertainment media lets you preview the entire package before you buy it? Can I watch Dark Knight then decide if I want to pay for it? Can I download an entire CD and then decide if I want to pay for it (yes I realize some bands let you and older brick and mortar stores let you listen to a CD, but you didn't have ownership when you listened to it there in the store)?

I doubt the conversion from downloading a game, it working and you liking it then leads to you buying it. Look at CoD4 and all the illegal downloads. The only reason people would pirate a workable game is to ensure it worked online.

[Wolfgang]

demos more and more often get released conveniently AFTER the games hit retail, with the usual excuse "we're too busy finishing the game to put together a demo", yet they're not to busy to be shoving the crap out the door with patches waiting or already in the works before boxes even appear on the shelves.


Seriously? You can't wait to buy a game? You have to have it day 1?

[SacredWeasel]

Neither side of this argument will ever have hard evidence to backup any claims. I claim that piracy doesn't hurt the industry. You claim it does. The only evidence I have to back that claim up are my, and my friends' purchasing habits. I am living proof that piracy actually has a positive effect on the industry. Piracy has gotten me to BUY games I would have otherwise skipped. It's never caused me to not buy a game (unless it's old ROMs that the developer can't see a penny from anyway).

And what about the dozens of people I know that pirate games without buying any of them? Guess that doesn't hurt the industry either?

You say piracy has never caused you to not buy a game:

World of Goo was not fucking great. I pirated it, and uninstalled it in an hour.

So, you pirated a game and then did not buy it?

Now let's get one thing straight, your kind of piracy doesn't hurt the industry much, but it does hurt it and saying that based on the "evidence" of you and a couple of friends piracy doesn't hurt the industry at all is just bullshit worthy of jack thompson himself.

Just because you happen to buy some (or lots) of the games that you pirate does not mean that other people do so. And by saying that piracy doesn't hurt the industry you're encouraging all those thousands of people who like free shit regardless of real world cost.

Quite possibly my favorite point is that by using piracy to filter what I buy, I'm actively keeping the industry from drowning in a sea of shit games. By buying the good games, and avoiding the bad ones, I'm helping show publishers that lazy efforts can't make a profit anymore. The more people who do this, the better.

No, what you're doing is becoming part of that percentage that pirates games. Publishers have no way of telling how many of the people that pirate a game also actually buy said game. You and people like you are jacking up that percentage by insisting in a stubborn ass way that you have every right to do it. Oh by the way, no, you don't actually have any right to do it, you're taking a product completely outside of the control of the people who own it. The publishers and developers who survive on the games that they make have no control over what you do with their product if you pirate it. The car test driving analogy, that somebody mentioned. does not make any sense. If you could just randomly walk into a car dealer, pick any random car that you want to, and then test it out as much and as long as you like, maybe make a couple of copies of it in case you ever wanna drive it again, then it might be accurate.

If you really want to help the industry, just buy the games that you feel are good, don't pirate them first thereby jacking up the percentage of pirated copies. There are other ways to judge if a game is good or not. Even an internet review can provide an idea if you'll like a game or not, as long as you take the review for what it is: Somebody opinion on something that you know little about.

Also, it's in our human nature to only pay what we feel something is worth. There are hundreds of games that aren't worth any price at all. Some offer experiences so fucking awful, that we should be paid to play them.

Yeah, or, because of the nature of piracy, you could download something, not pay anything for it and most likely never get punished for it either!

Your logic is flawed, your arguments ridiculous, and your head is so far up your ass it appears to be on your neck.

[panopticon]

It would be interesting to see a significant publisher try a radical business model - for example, literally give the game away for free as a download, and sell boxed copies with a manual and other tangible extras. In some ways, the situation would be the same for the publisher - anyone could get their game for free without fear of legal consequences. The only differences that I can think of would be that it could be *slightly* more convenient to get to the actual game (assuming pirates don't feel more at home on torrent sites than actual gaming websites), and that the people who buy games only because they don't wish to partake in any illegal activity would have less of an incentive to do so (but they could still buy the box to support the developer). For those who just value having a hard copy and supporting the developer, absolutely nothing would change.

With Ubisoft experimenting with DRM-free PC games, who knows, maybe we'll see a smaller publisher try something similar, but there is also a very real possibility that I'm just overlooking something and being dumb.

[SacredWeasel]

Damn the lack of an edit button.

I realize I may have been a bit harsh on Mozgus. The problem is that while his post is a typical "I have the right because I say so" pirate post, he does actually have some good points. We're expected to pay 60 euros for something that we have never tried before, and while you can say that in other entertainment media it's the same, it really isn't. A cd costs 15 euros, a dvd 20 at the most. You can listen to music on the radio, tv and the internet. Same goes for movies except replace radio with movie theater. In the game industry the only way we can try the product before we buy it, are: demos (which are not always representative of the whole product), friends who might have already bought the game, or illegal ways.

That being said, assuming you have to right to do something just because you want to and then saying that what you do doesn't have a negative effect is still ridiculous.

[silv]

Mozgus is a self-important arse, in my opinion.

You don't HAVE to play the games, and developers don't HAVE to release demos. If you aren't sure you want to buy it, then don't.

Just because a demo isn't released day and date with the retail game does not give you the right to pirate it and make some kind of self-imposed judgment call over whether or not you got enough enjoyment out of it to merit paying for what you just pirated.

All your points are just rationalizations in an attempt to justify what you are doing.

[Froggy]

Your retarded logic states then that we should steal milky way bars because they're not as good as snickers bars.

This too is flawed logic, because Milky Way bars are way better than Snickers bars. :)

[Butters66]

What other entertainment media lets you preview the entire package before you buy it? Can I watch Dark Knight then decide if I want to pay for it? Can I download an entire CD and then decide if I want to pay for it (yes I realize some bands let you and older brick and mortar stores let you listen to a CD, but you didn't have ownership when you listened to it there in the store)?


This is a terrible argument that only helps the pirates.

1. Movies are only 2 hours long (on average) Do you want games to be that short?
2. A lot of people wait to rent a movie because of the cost of the theater release and they are unsure if it is worth all the cost at the theaters. Movie studios have adapted to this, and push the DVDs out much earlier now. Also, more and more QUALITY releases are now straight to video because of the cost of putting it in the theaters.
3. Music? Seriously? Have you ever heard of the radio? You hear the song on the radio or perhaps even see the band in concert and buy the CD. You might even listen to a friends copy of the album.

Games are totally different because of the cost of the game and the time it takes to consume the game. They are their own animal, much like music, movies and books are all different ways we entertain ourselves.

The reality is that games do not, by the nature of them, have a good way to preview them and the cost associated with them drive people to a pirate first nature.

Remember, movies and music are pirated all the time as well. So are TV shows. However, when given a cost effective easy alternative, such as iTunes, many people (not all) will use it.

Even a lot of DVDs now ship with a legit copy that you can put on your PSP or iPod. This is proper reaction to market forces that were trending towards piracy because it was the only means of transferring a DVD you bought to your PSP. Companies had wanted you to buy two copies. Is/Was that fair use? I would say no. You have the DVD, you should be able to watch it on your PSP. Studios are now agreeing.

Game companies are complaining about the reselling of games, saying it is much like piracy. I think this resell market and things like gamefly are the current cost effective avenue for legit users who don't want to shell out $60 bucks for an unproven game.

However, when these areas are attacked, it is not hard to see why market forces trend towards piracy. If companies did more to promote second hand markets and the like, it would be like when iTunes made MP3s legit. And someone will make a ton of cash.

[bulldozer.sweden]

Microsoft bans people from XBL for modded xbox's
Having the gamer playing on-line, might right now just be one of the only ways to control your games (like XBL or World of Warcraft).

I see both good and bad things with piracy.
The bad thing people (game companies/developer) loose money (more or less).

The good thing. Well gaming has gone through the roof the last 5 years (might be becasue of the piracy). The pirated consoles sell like crazy (DS, Wii, also PS2 and Xbox 360).

One of the biggest problem (as with movies) is that now days a AAA title cost anything from 10-40 million dollars to make. To make profit you'll need to sell a hell of a lot more games than before (5-10 years).

I think that one thing will lead to another. People always finds ways to pirate games/thing and people always finds new way to make games/money. It's the same in the music business (the studio based girl/boy bands mostly died because of that no one bought their music. Instead more personal artist could market themselves through Internet and get recognition)

Like one 3d artist friends said to me at a party some weeks ago when we discussed piracy -"if I haven't had piracy I would never learned Photoshop, 3d studio max and Maya and I wouldn't got a job at a big game studio".

[bjornbarspingvinen]

Piracy is a problem and the old cliché of it´s a download era and the only problem is the companies not keeping up is bullshit. It´s time to put the hammer on the stupid freeloaders.

BTW, Football manager is huge in europe and especially england, I know a few people who play that game like crazy , and only 25% has legit copies. THat´s a real stat, not your fake excuses; "but not everyone would have bought it if copies were availible bla bla bla"

It a charachteristic of lazy, moralless, cheap punkasses, and you can bet they freeload on as much as they can. All heavy downloaders I know are cheap and distugingly seeking ways to get by the easy way on everything in life.

You know it´s true , you freeloading moron :D

[modeps]

Any press is good press.

[Nighthawk]

As somebody that has been on both sides and gaming for years, I would like to put in my 2 cent.

I remember back in the day when you could buy a game and if it sucked or didn't work, you could bring it back. Last one I was able to bring back was X-COM: Interceptor. Ironically I started playing the original with a friends copy (Anybody else remember the copy protection? It was a word from each page of the manual) then bought X-Com, Terror from the Deep, and Apocalypse. Interceptor was AWFUL and EB took it back opened with no questions. I got burned by this terrible cash in on the series, and now I have no recourse to buy a game and return it if its awful. I understand pirates have killed this for legitimate users, but this is still a chicken/egg fallacy, as it makes people more hesitant to buy when they can pirate instead. Same as DRM issues like Spore. I was interested in Spore, but I chose to hold off because of DRM issues, and then when the reviews from average gamers were awful, I completely ignored the game.

Which brings me to another point. Somebody said "read a professional game reviewer to get an opinion of the game". However, unlike back in the day, the gaming review community has lost most of its credibility. During the 80s and 90s, you could somewhat trust the reviewers. Lately the major magazines and other major websites are now afraid to pan major titles for fear of losing advertising dollars, early review privileges, etc. So I don't know how credible they are. Smaller sites like EvAv have more legitimacy, IMHO, hence why I frequent here.

I think three things would help MAJORLY with piracy.

1) Include physical content people want. Old games used to have real manuals, full color everything, beautiful maps, etc. Do things like this without going to the "Ultimate 1337 Edition". I might buy a higher end instore version, but don't make the standard version include nothing but a CD. There is currently no incentive to purchase 85% of games over download.

2) Give a discount to people who purchase online. I have bought several games on Steam and enjoyed the convenience. But its ridiculous to charge the same price, while not having to pay for all of the physical content associated with an instore purchase. I don't care if its $5 less, at least give some enticement to purchase online, besides the convenience factor.

3) Tie the game to online play as much as possible. Games like Team Fortress 2 and WoW obviously make it just about impossible to pirate. But even games like Galactic Civilizations tie much of the content to an online account. If game developers make sure to implement something like an online community for gameplay, content, etc. then its a strong incentive to allow a pirate to "try" the offline component of the game and then purchase the game to use everything available.

[Johan]

As someone who has pirated games in the past I find this topic to be extremely complex.

Oh HORSESHIT. You either paid for it, or you didn't (hence, you ripped off the company).

Pay or not. Quite fucking simple. If you rip off the games you play, have the balls to step up and admit it and take the heat. Quit with the excuses. You're not dieing of starvation, and games aren't a loaf of bread.

[JimmyDanger]

Meh - I buy Football Manager anyway - and realise there isn't a 360 version announced for the new one.

Slightly OffTopic - but - maybe sales of CM on consoles could offset PC piracy? I'd probly still get FM anyway - but with no 360 FM for this iteration (announced yet anyway) - they could have a window to take my cash this year.

[JimmyDanger]

Oh HORSESHIT. You either paid for it, or you didn't (hence, you ripped off the company).

Pay or not. Quite fucking simple. If you rip off the games you play, have the balls to step up and admit it and take the heat. Quit with the excuses. You're not dieing of starvation, and games aren't a loaf of bread.


Hear Hear Johan.

These rationalisations I hear for piracy get quite ridiculous...

Don't like buggy, DRM laden , PC releases where maybe the game will work with your 2 year old slightly offcentre setup? Buy the console version! I've never looked back.

The same way I gamed on PC a lot in the mid 90's - early 00's - because consoles just couldn't offer a certain level of gameplay complexity - now I game on consoles - because the gameplay/variety is at a great level these days - and I couldn't be arsed "keeping my PC healthy for running games".

I play "the internet", "spreadsheets" and "work" on PC.

But I digress....

[Mozgus]

At least a few mature people actually understood what I said. I again notice they're the ones without crazy rage, and don't try to simplify the argument to black and white.

It is true that I take a "I do what I want" attitude on this eternal debate. I indeed do what I want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. My piracy, and my friends' piracy, has never done that. The moment I so much as hurt one sale, I'll rethink my ways. Until that happens, it will never be stealing to me.

And if I ever meet one of these uber pirates you guys speak of, I'll put him in his place. :)

[JimmyDanger]

I indeed do what I want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. My piracy, and my friends' piracy, has never done that. The moment I so much as hurt one sale, I'll rethink my ways.

If you can't see the inherent flaw in that logic....

Well I dunno.

[Johan]

At least a few mature people actually understood what I said.

Oh, sure! You take shit without paying for it! I got it loud and clear!

Maturity resides not in convincing yourself that you're ENTITLED to shit for FREE, but that you're NOT ENTITLED to take shit you don't pay for.

You're NOT STARVING and games AREN'T BREAD. Pay your way or get the hell off the bus.

[silv]

But Johan, they didn't release a demo. He is entitled to pirate.

[Butters66]

I think we need to dig deeper into how to stop the motivating factors behind piracy.

Simply saying you are a thief and evil doesn't work. Pirates don't listen. You can yell and complain all you want, but the end result is punishment for legit users. Currently in the form of DRM. I hate having to have a disc inserted for a game I want to play. I don't have to have a disc inserted when I launch my copy of word. But this reality exists today because of piracy.

We trust a lot in our society. If this trust ratio changes from highly positive to highly negative, then only anarchy prevails. Here is an example I like to use - baggage pickup. Imagine if 90% of the bags picked up were by people who didn't own them. The system could not work. However, since in general we trust that other people won't take our bag, we go with the current system. If the ratio swings, we would have massive security on our bags and it would take super duper longer to get them.

It is therefore in our best interest to play fair, and I think the say applies to piracy. If we in general do the right thing - pay for the game - then this becomes a non to fringe issue. If only 10% of the people are currently playing by the rules, then something is seriously wrong. Society and the market are broken and they need an overhaul.

A good level of piracy would be where it costs more to add DRM than the sales that would have been lost to people pirating the game. This would make companies not want to add DRM and everyone would be happy.

We are not at this point, but we should think about ways to make us get there via incentives to make the pirates come in from the cold. We also should have better more transparent numbers about lost revenue and piracy.

Assuming that a pirated copy is an automatic lost sale is false and does a lot of harm to people trying to defend the developers. When people think they are being lied to they easily rationalize behavior and think it's just the big old bad corporation sticking it to the little guy. Screw them. This doesn't help anybody.

[Johan]

Society and the market are broken and they need an overhaul.

Sounds like a spiritual issue. People do bad things, by nature. :)

[Mozgus]

Oh, sure! You take shit without paying for it! I got it loud and clear!

Maturity resides not in convincing yourself that you're ENTITLED to shit for FREE, but that you're NOT ENTITLED to take shit you don't pay for.

You're NOT STARVING and games AREN'T BREAD. Pay your way or get the hell off the bus.

It's like you're actually trying to fit my descriptions perfectly. Take note everyone. If you get scorned buying a bunch of crappy games, you'll turn out just as CAPSLOCK raged as this individual.

[SacredWeasel]

It's like you're actually trying to fit my descriptions perfectly. Take note everyone. If you get scorned buying a bunch of crappy games, you'll turn out just as CAPSLOCK raged as this individual.

Except that Johan tends to buy his games a year or so after their release, at which point he can be damn sure if a game he's buying is good or not.

[Qoz]

The problem with your (Mozgul) arguments are, that they are perfectly fine in my opinion for what you describe, but this scenario re-present a VERY small percentage of the pirating user. I am not even certain that actually do what you preach, as many pirates seem diluted (including myself 10 years ago).

When you use the "do as you please" retoric and blame the industry, then you legitimize what you are doing. And you are breaking the law. There is not a very long span from just trying the game, to actually completing the game, and then blaming the developers for the small play-time, and not buy it anyway. It's still the developers fault!

You speak of a scenario that is not hurting anyone, but it is so often used as an excuse to keep people in the denial, that they are not to blame - they are crusaders of saving only the good games!

That is why it is necsessary to keep it simple.
You copy = you pirate.

The developers control WHAT is piracy.
You have no right to change that.

If we allow people to do illegal things because they can talk themselves out of it and claim they don't hurt anyone, then we would have a hard time policing.
The law is the law.

Regarding the demo - you can easily read reviews and often you can even download a demo. There are tons of sources for getting to know if the game is good, instead of downloading it. It is just not a very believable excuse.

Microsoft bans people from XBL for modded xbox's

No - they are banning the console and NOT the XboxLive account.
You can buy a new one, login and still have your purchased games.
Thats a very different thing, then banning the account.

[Qoz]

Ofcourse we all have little knowledge about the percentages of pirate-types.

My assumption is, that very small percentage actually use pirating to ONLY demo the game, and then buy them.

Others might claim the opposite, and that is why this discussion is hard.

It would help alot, if we knew excatly how many played the game (as they would have, if they bought it) instead of just number of downloads.

Still these guys claim to know, so the game obvioulsy has some "phone home" technique.

[Johan]

Except that Johan tends to buy his games a year or so after their release, at which point he can be damn sure if a game he's buying is good or not.

THIS. I let "the other guy" take the depreciation on the asset and buy it a year or more later, at twenty bucks or less. I even get more content doing that (Oblivion GotY for $20, Ninja Gaiden Black for $20, Fable: Lost Chapters for $20)! Additionally, I let the "hype" settle and can find out which games are REALLY worth spending my scratch on.

The last full-priced new game I bought was Gears of War 2. I own hundreds of games, with perhaps ten to twenty purchased used and none of them pirated.

Now, some would argue that, if you enjoy multiplayer, you'll miss the "window of opportunity" to get in on that. That is true on consoles for the most part (excluding a few rare titles like Halo, that seem to keep trucking online for ages). However, there is a solution if you want to play older games online. It's called the PC. It's been around a little while, too.

I have absolutely NO IDEA how people can afford to drop $60 a game for as many games as people seem to buy. I just could not afford to get all the games I want that way, and I refuse to pirate (though I know how to do it. It's not brain surgery, after all...it's reasonably simple, especially with older systems. I could get tons of great free games for the SNES, N64, DS, and on and on...).

Nobody has a "right" to free games. For one thing, it's a luxury item, not a necessity. It's not food, water, shelter, or clothing. It's entertainment (and sometimes art), but not a necessity. Pay your way. If you're pirating, grow a pair and admit it...you're taking shit for free. Period. You're a leech.

[Ulysses]

Ah such self-righteousness, heh. Wonder how they reached that percentage though, all the article says, although I'm guessing they checked the number of times a torrent was downloaded.

[Johan]

Ah such self-righteousness, heh.

It has nothing to do with any deflections people want to toss out there. It's a simple issue.

You don't have a right to take the product of others' labor for free. Period.

All the rest is obfuscatory bullshit that falls under one of the following:

* Projection - blaming others. "It's the horrible DRM...it's the gamers who buy crappy games...it's the publishers who blah blah blah."
* Denial - "I don't do it" (even if you do).
* Rationalization - Excuses are like assholes; everyone has one. "I NEED my games...I can't afford MY games...it's THEIR fault..."

For those who are struggling with this issue (yeah...right :rolleyes:), here it is again:


You don't have a right to take the product of others' labor for free. Period.

[Roc Ingersol]

A pirated copy is not a lost sale.
It doesn't make inventory unavailable to legitimate customers.

Regardless of the justifications for piracy (or lack thereof), comparing piracy to sales is a useless exercise.

[Ulysses]

Hm, not really a deflection, I have to laugh at the "pirates are scumbags", etc, anger people have here. While it's not thievery per se, you are infringing upon their copyright so yes, downloading games is "wrong". But, not sure how much money these companies really lose out of the deal, or how accurate their claims of piracy are.

[AversionFX]

Mozgus is a self-important arse, in my opinion.

You don't HAVE to play the games, and developers don't HAVE to release demos. If you aren't sure you want to buy it, then don't.

Just because a demo isn't released day and date with the retail game does not give you the right to pirate it and make some kind of self-imposed judgment call over whether or not you got enough enjoyment out of it to merit paying for what you just pirated.

All your points are just rationalizations in an attempt to justify what you are doing.

Developers don't need to do anything to entice people to buy their game. Exceptionally thoughtful! What an insightful and intelligent post. My god, I am astounded.

[Johan]

I have to laugh at the "pirates are scumbags", etc, anger people have here.

Someone's angry? Huh. Too bad for them, then. :D

...comparing piracy to sales is a useless exercise.

In terms of equating all pirated copies as lost sales, I would agree. It's impossible to know for sure how many pirated copies would have been sales if piracy were magically impossible. We'd need an alternate parallel universe to determine that objectively and empirically.

[Jadbalja]

Eh. I don't see much of a problem with this. It's where the whole "Oh, but I wouldn't have bought it anyway" thing comes into play. I know that it sounds like a cheap excuse, but I'd bet that for most of the stuff people download, it's actually true. The developer is still better off with someone copying the first game and buying the second than they are when someone buys neither game and/or pirates both.

Yes, but you're ignoring the scenario wherein the first one doesn't sell enough copies to persuade anyone to fund a sequel.

[silv]

Developers don't need to do anything to entice people to buy their game. Exceptionally thoughtful! What an insightful and intelligent post. My god, I am astounded.

You missed the entire point of my post. No one is entitled to pirating content just because a developer didn't make a demo, or because the reviews aren't convincing enough, or for any other reason. If you aren't sure its worth 60 bucks, then don't buy it. Attempting to make excuses for why one pirates something is just that, excuses.

[AversionFX]

You missed the entire point of my post. No one is entitled to pirating content just because a developer didn't make a demo, or because the reviews aren't convincing enough, or for any other reason. If you aren't sure its worth 60 bucks, then don't buy it. Attempting to make excuses for why one pirates something is just that, excuses.

Uhm, no. If you can't understand the importance of having enough information available to justify a $50-60 purchase, then you've got a severe, brain-retarding injury you might want to get checked out. The concept of "You don't know if the game is good, there isn't enough information, and there's no demo, fuck the dev and move on," is pretty fucking retarded.

I'm a gamer, I play video games. Last I checked, sales from people like me allow developers to stay in business. If I can't get a demo and there isn't enough information to give me an idea of whether or not to play the game, I'm not going to err on the side of stupidity and blow 50$ on a game that might actually not be worth it. Likewise, I'm not going to skip on what might be an absolute gem (Psychonauts, anyone?).

Hence, I'll download a game. If I enjoy it after a few hours, I go out and buy it so that I can support quality developers. You can call it "excuses" if you want, but I do my part to support and reward developers who make quality titles that I enjoy playing, in the hopes they will continue making quality titles for me (and others) to play. Get off your moral high-horse and get fucked. This issue isn't as simple as "you're either a customer or a thief."

[Xed]

Yes, but you're ignoring the scenario wherein the first one doesn't sell enough copies to persuade anyone to fund a sequel.

I know, but imho that's not a very realistic scenario, since we were talking about people who pirate games but are still willing to pay for games they enjoy or who at least end up buying the sequel to a game they enjoyed. People like that are probably only responsilbe for a very, very tiny percentage of all pirated copies, meaning that there are so few of them that they are very unlikely to have any noticable effect on a publishers funding decisions.

[Johan]

Uhm, no. If you can't understand the importance of having enough information available to justify a $50-60 purchase, then you've got a severe, brain-retarding injury you might want to get checked out.

If you pay $50+ on a game you haven't properly "checked out" it's not someone else who has the brain injury, and you don't need a demo to do that effectively, because demos aren't always even indicative of the quality of a title.

What do you need? IMPULSE CONTROL. Don't buy the "latest, hottest, greatest, bestest" thing to hit the shelves until the dust settles on the hype. Let other people be the beta-sucker-testers and learn from their wasted money.

That's what I do. I have a very substantial library of legally purchased games, most of which I bought at $20 or less. Impulse control. Try it!

This issue isn't as simple as "you're either a customer or a thief."

Yeah, actually, IT IS. The only complicating element is why people pirate the game, which is a long list of excuses with varying degrees of lameness. There is no other complication.

You don't have a right to take the product of others' labor for free. Period.

[AversionFX]

Yeah, actually, IT IS. The only complicating element is why people pirate the game, which is a long list of excuses with varying degrees of lameness. There is no other complication.

Actually, it's not, but I'll let you keep thinking it is.

[Johan]

Actually, it's not, but I'll let you keep thinking it is.

That's a highly persuasive rationale for breaking up this issue differently than "legitimate customers" and "pirates who don't pay."

I like the effort you've expended in proving your point. :rolleyes:

You don't have a right to take the product of others' labor for free. Period.

[AversionFX]

You don't have a right to take the product of others' labor for free. Period.

Nobody's taking anything, chief. ;)

PS - It's dying - not dieing - Mr. Teacherguy.

[Johan]

Nobody's taking anything, chief. ;)

That's just another rationalization. There are really only four categories for people to work within when told something isn't legal or right:

Rationalization
Denial
Projection
Acceptance

You ARE indeed taking something. You are taking a copy of the product of others' work/labor. The fact that you don't affect their copy of that work/labor does NOT excuse the taking, nor does it justify it.

Again, this is a simple issue. You don't have a right to take the product of others' labor for free. Period. The ONLY complicating matter is the motivation behind the piracy. It's still PIRACY, it's still taking what isn't yours, and it's still wrong.

PS - It's dying - not dieing - Mr. Teacherguy.

Depends on what you're talking about! (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dieing) :D
Also depends on when you're talking! (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dying) :D

Sometimes I even find myself on the other side of the Great Vowel Shift, as well!

[Butters66]

That's what I do. I have a very substantial library of legally purchased games, most of which I bought at $20 or less. Impulse control. Try it!


Scavaging on the remains is fine, I do it myself all the time, but from today's publisher's perspective this is just as bad as piracy. You buying a discounted title a year later does nothing to help a games momentum or the potential for sequels.

I think I read somewhere that 80% of sales are in the first month. After that, the game's fate is decided. If you are not in that window of sales, your sale is not important to them.

This is why publishers and devs want to get in on the resale market so bad.

[Johan]

Scavaging on the remains is fine, I do it myself all the time, but from today's publisher's perspective this is just as bad as piracy.

No, it's not "just as bad as piracy." In fact, PAYING for a game isn't in any way related to piracy, so don't obfuscate the issue, please.

Now, if you want to argue that publishers are unhappy that they are seeing a lower rate of return on their investment from a sale to someone like me, considering that I typically buy older games for $20 or less, that's perfectly logical, supportable, and true. They do make less money from me than from early adopters. However, they DO receive money from me for their product, and considering the "age" of the product (while games don't depreciate in their functionality, they DO depreciate in the market, which moves beyond them in technology, gameplay, art assets, and the like), and the fact that it's actually money they're receiving, and not data from a torrent, I'm quite confident they would prefer a sale to me rather than a torrent stat.

Unless you're essentially arguing that they want more of my money, which is a gigantic "DUH!", or that as a consumer I want to keep more of my money, which is a gigantic "DUH!" as well. I mean...news at 11 on that. :)

As for the resale market, they should go ahead and get in on it if they want to make more money! Or, find ways to suppress the desire of people to buy used...or to sell their game away. There are methods to encourage people to buy, and keep, new.

[AversionFX]

That's just another rationalization. There are really only four categories for people to work within when told something isn't legal or right:

Rationalization
Denial
Projection
Acceptance

You ARE indeed taking something. You are taking a copy of the product of others' work/labor. The fact that you don't affect their copy of that work/labor does NOT excuse the taking, nor does it justify it.

Again, this is a simple issue. You don't have a right to take the product of others' labor for free. Period. The ONLY complicating matter is the motivation behind the piracy. It's still PIRACY, it's still taking what isn't yours, and it's still wrong.

Just because you are adamant on your position, does not mean you are right. So, you can rant and rave from your moral high horse all you like, it changes nothing.

I guess anything you don't agree with is "just another rationalization." So petty and so shallow. It's hilarious! :D

Depends on what you're talking about! (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dieing) :D
Also depends on when you're talking! (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dying) :D

Sometimes I even find myself on the other side of the Great Vowel Shift, as well!

Nice try to deflect your obvious ignorance to the use of the word "dying" in the context you presented. Fail. I thought it was a miracle how some people get their drivers license, let alone teaching credentials.

[JimmyDanger]

Once again - people who believe in legitimately supporting the industry they love - are accused of taking the "moral high ground".

At least no one's been asked "is it lonely up there on that cross?" - as I have been before.

The lengths people go to justify ripping off the hard work of talented individuals astounds me sometimes.

[Johan]

Just because you are adamant on your position, does not mean you are right.

You're exactly right on that point. The fact that I'm RIGHT on this point makes me RIGHT. You've offered nothing but lame-ass excuses for what you apparently want to rationalize and excuse. Well, let me once again spell it out for you, simply, so you can understand it.

You don't have a right to take the product of others' labor for free. Period.

You can make excuses, throw insults, dodge and weave, and dance around the issue, but

You don't have a right to take the product of others' labor for free. Period.

Are you getting that really, truly simple concept yet? It's one that even five-year-olds can understand. You don't have a right to freely take what others produce. It's NOT your right. Piracy IS taking from others. The mere fact that you leave behind a perfect copy of what you have taken DOES NOT change the fact that you have taken, without permission or payment, the product of another's labor.

You're truly morally and mentally incapacitated and idiotic if you cannot see that. It's quite simple.

I thought it was a miracle how some people get their drivers license, let alone teaching credentials.

I may have mistakenly misspelled a word, which I tried to make light of and joke about, not deflect, but that's correctable by paying attention in the future. It's a lot harder for people like you to change being an asshole. That's a feature of your character, and an unfortunate one, if you're going to try to score insult points against me over one damn typo. Dick.

Now why don't you get the fuck out of here and go torrent some games, eh? :rolleyes:

[Ulysses]

Well he's right really, you're not -taking- their product, they still have it on the shelves and so on. One thing with the cracked games, there's a fair bit of technical skill behind some of the cracks these people do, I remember reading an interview with some guy from Razor where he talks in a vague sense of what they do, pretty cool (probably why a lot of the Scene people do it too I figure).

[Johan]

Well he's right really, you're not -taking- their product

Reading is such a basic skill. You're not "taking their product," you're: "...taking the product of others' labor for free." You're not pulling something off the shelf and leaving nothing behind, but YOU ARE taking something that isn't yours, without permission. Period.

It's amazing to me how difficult a concept this is for people, but I'm simultaneously unsurprised as well, because nobody likes to be told they're wrong or that they shouldn't do something they want to do, because people are assholes far too often. The fact is, the game's code is THE PRODUCT of someone's efforts (hours, days, weeks, months, YEARS of work, on some games) and you are TAKING A COPY of it by pirating it. You're not taking the only product copy, of course, you're not damaging the product (unless you copy it, hack it, and disseminate it with malicious code, I suppose); you're taking something without payment that SOMEONE ELSE worked on in the expectation of offering their product for sale.

Nobody has the right to take the product of others' labor for free. Period. You don't have a right to it. Everything else is a lame-ass excuse. Even little kids get this concept. It's not difficult. Really.

Now, if you want to pirate shit, go do it, and STOP with the LAME excuses. What you're doing is wrong, it's illegal, and you should stop. Don't want to? Fine. STFU with the excuses. Thank you.

[Ulysses]

Well his point was that it's not thievery in the basic sense, and that's right.

[Johan]

Well his point was that it's not thievery in the basic sense, and that's right.

No, he's not right. He's OBFUSCATING the issue.

Copyright infringement/stealing.
stealing/copyright infringement.

Either way, it does not matter, because NEITHER of those is ALLOWED and that whole "debate" merely deals with the TYPE of transgression, not whether you've actually transgressed. You don't have the right to TAKE the product of others' labor for free. His only point was to attempt to AVOID that reality, which is that nobody has a right to take the product of others' labor for free.

It is truly that simple. Anything else is obfuscation, rationalization, projection, denial, and bullshit.

Piracy is an immature entitlement mentality supported by lame, adolescent rationales that fundamentally miss the point. Someone else made something, and you took it for free. You don't have that right.

If people can't figure that out, the world truly is going to hell. It's so basic, even little children understand it. If you pirate, at least be intellectually honest. You take something that's not yours. You're breaking the law. What you're doing is wrong. Simple.

[pwnophobia]

This isn't on line with the argument but this image always makes me laugh:

http://nynerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/piracy-is-not-theft.gif

[AversionFX]

No, he's not right. He's OBFUSCATING the issue.

Copyright infringement/stealing.
stealing/copyright infringement.

Nobody's obfuscating anything. You are clinging to a point and endlessly repeating it. Nobody's stealing anything. I'm not taking anything from anyone. I'm merely giving developers a chance to make money off me by trying out their game when not given the opportunity to do so by their own accord.

Keep using caps to highlight terms you feel are important, though. Eventually your point might be valid! Copyright infringement is copyright infringment. Theft is theft. They are two different concepts and acts. Apples are not oranges, and oranges are not apples.

What about that don't you understand?

[Johan]

Copyright infringement is copyright infringment. Theft is theft. They are two different concepts and acts.

Exactly. You have once again proven my point. Neither of the above is allowed. Neither of the above is legal. Neither of the above is done with the willing participation of the producer of the content/product.

You don't get it. Neither of those is allowable, nor is it even important which one it is! You are taking the product of others' labor. It does not matter that you leave the original copy behind, any more than my copying a pristine book from a bookstore and putting it back on the shelf, in perfect condition, would matter. You are taking the product of others' labor for free, without their permission. Whatever you call it, whether copyright infringement or theft, it is still taking their labor, it is still wrong, and you are merely arguing for a particular TYPE of wrong behavior.

I'm merely giving developers a chance to make money off me by trying out their game

Laughable. You don't have a right to take their product for a test drive if they don't offer you the option. Read a review. Listen to other gamers. Rent a copy. Visit a friend who legally owns a copy. You don't have a right to rewrite the rules so you can take what you want. If you don't like the way they market their product, you don't get to decide to "market it yourself...to yourself...illegally." You do, however, have a right to not buy it.