Who is Jack Thompson?

[fernsho]

Sure, we all know him as some whacky game-hating lawyer, but is there a method to his madness? Wacko Jacko took the time to do an interview (http://www.gamergod.com/article.php?article_id=2660&category_id=30) with GamerGod (http://www.GamerGod.com) and turns out, he may actually be a normal concerned parent?

Editor: Who cares? Take away his platform and he is just like any other loon bumping heads with padded walls. The man is a fanatic.

[The Iron Weasel]

I don't give a fuck who the dumbass thinks he is, all I know is that he is absolutly, unquestionably, batshit insane. That's all anyone that posts here should care about.

[Bushido]

Lots of people are insane but we dont listen to them.

[Sion]

He's a christian zealot. What more is there to know?

[Captain Awesome]

He's the magical gnome who steals my corn nuts :mad:

[Heretic Machine]

He's wrong. That's all we need to know.

[TrackZero]

He's the magical gnome who steals my corn nuts :mad:

And I think we can all agree, Thompson should leave Captain Awesome's corn nuts alone.

[The Iron Weasel]

That bastard has been taking my corn nuts aswell!

[earthworm48]

That bastard has been taking my corn nuts aswell!

Yes...... Jack Thompson took your corn nuts too....... *looks shifty*

[The Iron Weasel]

Yes...... Jack Thompson took your corn nuts too....... *looks shifty*

YOU BASTARD!

NEXT TIME I'M SMACKING YOU WITH MY BAT!

[nonchalance]

He actually does have some good points.
His problem is that he presents them in this batshit crazy way, and so nobody will listen to him.

If I was to advocate new tougher speeding laws with the premise that most drivers are moronic idiots who don't want to hear anything bad about cars, nobody would listen, regardless of how good my stats were.

[Leaving Hope]

He's a christian zealot. What more is there to know?

Please don't lump him in with us. Zealot, I'll grant you, but his being Christian or simply using it to push his agenda has nothing to do with why he's "batshit insane."

There's nothing Christian about Thompson's behavior. He's arrogant, deceptive, short tempered, vindictive, and proud. He may say he's one thing, but his actions reveal he's another.

It's unfortunate, but some people use religion to push their own agenda.

[The Iron Weasel]

The guy is nuts, he may have some good points, but until he starts respect us, I couldn't care less about what he has to say.

Edit: Why the fuck arn't I sleeping!?!?!?! (its 5:34am)

[megaman]

No matter how he is, he always makes up for some gud laffs :D

[Leaving Hope]

...he may have some good points, but until he starts [to] respect us, I couldn't care less about what he has to say.

Nice point. I couldn't agree more.

I don't think anyone wants our children to view content that is inappropriate for them. But he has gone about trying to address his issues in the wrong way. It seems like his actions are about getting him attention instead of solving problems.

[TrackZero]

Edit: Why the fuck arn't I sleeping!?!?!?! (its 5:34am)

Good question. I've got the excuse that I'm on night shift this week. ;)

[jwbxx]

Who is mike jones?

[Savok]

Please don't lump him in with us. Zealot, I'll grant you, but his being Christian or simply using it to push his agenda has nothing to do with why he's "batshit insane."

There's nothing Christian about Thompson's behavior. He's arrogant, deceptive, short tempered, vindictive, and proud. He may say he's one thing, but his actions reveal he's another.

It's unfortunate, but some people use religion to push their own agenda.
That's what makes him a zealot, they usually go well beyond the line drawn by their own doctrine.

The only thing worse then a true madman is one who knows how to mask the fact.

[daedal]

Ambulance chaser.

[Player 1]

He actually does have some good points.

I totally agree.

I also tend to agree that a lot of his good points are lost by the way he presents them. It's very much a case of it not being what you say but the way that you say them.

What a lot of people are failing to see is that, by stooping to his level, we are proving him 100% right about his generalisations about gamers. It appears to me that most gamers dismiss everything he says and prefer to call him names and/or prejudge him. Whether it's warranted or not can you honestly say that such a response is the best way to prove a man who calls all gamers 'morons' as wrong?

He's accusing all of us of moronic behaviour and our response is to act like morons. I personally fail to see how this is doing our culture any favours.

I mentioned this a few days ago - few seemed interested. (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7281)

I fear that gamers are doing just as much damage to the public image of videogames as much as Jack Thompson is - but a lot of us have been doing it for longer.

On a side note, my editor has come away from a lengthy interview with JT totally unscathed and found him to be "a staggeringly reasonable man" and "far different than most people's idea of him". The full interview will be published in the UK in a couple of month's time. I'm currently trying to dissuade him from using "You don't know Jack" as the title. ;)

Editor: Who cares? Take away his platform and he is just like any other loon bumping heads with padded walls. The man is a fanatic.

Now this IS moronic behaviour. Making this a front page news item and then stating "Who cares?" is pretty contradictory. Additionally, the recommendation of taking away his platform would make sense - but by creating a front page news item about him (again) you've just reinforced his platform!

See? Gamers can do dumb things too.

[Hieremias]

I kinda liked the "no Jack Thompson" policy this site used to have. I could go through my whole day without hearing anything that spewed out of his mouth, and I was completely happy.

What happened to that policy? Why was it abandoned?

[NoName]

What happened to that policy? Why was it abandoned?
He started doing larger things, like "trying" to get PA arrested. It's sort of hard to just ignore him, when it's gaming news that effects actual people (not just his normal rantings).

Though I probably wouldn't mind if that policy came back until Jack did something large and dumb again... o.0

[OUX]

I just don't get this guy. Does anyone here judge all lawyers because Jackie boy is crazy? Probably not; so I don't know how he can judge the entire gaming community with being idiots. Also the idea of the industry trying to mental molest children is ridiculous. I am sitting here trying to think out his arguments (because we obviously don't do that ever) and the only thing I can think of is "This guy is crazy". He has some workable (I won't say good) ideas but ultimately no matter what the laws say it will come down to parents being involved in their kids lives. Why not skip the legal tape and start with the real problem.

[Savok]

I totally agree.

I also tend to agree that a lot of his good points are lost by the way he presents them. It's very much a case of it not being what you say but the way that you say them.

What a lot of people are failing to see is that, by stooping to his level, we are proving him 100% right about his generalisations about gamers. It appears to me that most gamers dismiss everything he says and prefer to call him names and/or prejudge him. Whether it's warranted or not can you honestly say that such a response is the best way to prove a man who calls all gamers 'morons' as wrong?

He's accusing all of us of moronic behaviour and our response is to act like morons. I personally fail to see how this is doing our culture any favours.

I mentioned this a few days ago - few seemed interested. (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7281)

I fear that gamers are doing just as much damage to the public image of videogames as much as Jack Thompson is - but a lot of us have been doing it for longer.

On a side note, my editor has come away from a lengthy interview with JT totally unscathed and found him to be "a staggeringly reasonable man" and "far different than most people's idea of him". The full interview will be published in the UK in a couple of month's time. I'm currently trying to dissuade him from using "You don't know Jack" as the title. ;)



Now this IS moronic behaviour. Making this a front page news item and then stating "Who cares?" is pretty contradictory. Additionally, the recommendation of taking away his platform would make sense - but by creating a front page news item about him (again) you've just reinforced his platform!

See? Gamers can do dumb things too.
I tire of those who measure tolerance of how tolerant we are of intolerance. Learn to draw a line, wherever you draw that line Jack crossed it long ago.

Do you know how easy it is to hide your nature when you're self aware? There's a reason serial killers are nice, quiet neighbours.

[phantomhitman]

Who is mike jones?

I'm Mike Jones (who) Mike Jones the one and only you can't clone me
Got a lot a haters and a lot of homies
Some friends and some phony

mike jones

/biggestmostarrogantegotisticassontheplanet

[AspectVoid]

I totally agree.

I also tend to agree that a lot of his good points are lost by the way he presents them. It's very much a case of it not being what you say but the way that you say them.

What a lot of people are failing to see is that, by stooping to his level, we are proving him 100% right about his generalisations about gamers. It appears to me that most gamers dismiss everything he says and prefer to call him names and/or prejudge him. Whether it's warranted or not can you honestly say that such a response is the best way to prove a man who calls all gamers 'morons' as wrong?

He's accusing all of us of moronic behaviour and our response is to act like morons. I personally fail to see how this is doing our culture any favours.

I mentioned this a few days ago - few seemed interested. (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7281)

I fear that gamers are doing just as much damage to the public image of videogames as much as Jack Thompson is - but a lot of us have been doing it for longer.


The problem, though is the way Jack presents himself. If you replace videogames and gamers in his rants with Jews or African Americans, all of a sudden you got something that's close to Nazis or the KKK. The Nazis ranted about how the Jews were evil and destroying Germany, the KKK ranted (and rants) about how African Americans are evil and destroying America, and Jack Thompson rants about how videogames are evil and destroying America.

Because its about videogames and people who play them rather then a faith or a race, for some reason the general public seems to think that it's okay.

It's not.

Edit: I'm not saying Jack Thompson is a Nazi or KKK, I'm saying that his current public tactics are very, very similar. If he calms down and treats gamers like the adults the vast majority of us are, I wouldn't have a problem with him.

[Cupelix]

Didn't we make a deal to keep Thompson news off of the main page? Aside from major things like him getting disbarred, I'd rather his name not pollute this otherwise fantastic news site.

[OUX]

Didn't we make a deal to keep Thompson news off of the main page? Aside from major things like him getting disbarred, I'd rather his name not pollute this otherwise fantastic news site.


Hey you clicked the link.

[blackzc]

its video games for god sakes, and who said he needs to respect US (gamers)? What the hell? are gamers a race now? Yup its time to get out of a house before you realize you wasted your life looking at a computer monitor.

[Phydeaux]

I couldn't care less if JT has "some good points" or not. His brute force, bullying, amubulance-chasing self-aggrandizing methods are far worse than the games that he decries. Any real research in the field of "violence and videogames" takes a step back every time the media's fickle limelight finds this gloryhound. Do what Alabama's Judge Moore did - take away Jack's podium, and you take away his power. If there are dangers, let the legitimate researchers find them. Thus far, the research has been mixed at worst and positive at best. Where is the coverage for that? In the meantime, encourage parents to do their job and keep the self-serving, bloodsucking lawyers out of it.

A gamer dad who knows what his kids are playing and plays with them - you can't teach life lessons from the stands.

[AspectVoid]

its video games for god sakes, and who said he needs to respect US (gamers)? What the hell? are gamers a race now? Yup its time to get out of a house before you realize you wasted your life looking at a computer monitor.

A race? No. A Segment of society that shares a common interest? Yes. Gamer's fall under the same area as smokers, drinkers, sports fans, shell collectors, comic fans, movie fans, car lovers, plates with pictures on them collectors, home gardners, etc. Seriously, is it too much to ask that we be given the same level of courtesy as every other hobby group in this country?

[XxSATANxX]

A little history here for laughs.

The Congress investigated pulp fiction and comic books in the 50's.

All these same arguments and claims were made then are made now!

Here in Chicago we had Nazi's marching in Skokie. Why did stop? We just ignored them and it went away.

My favorite was his involving the Secret Service. Imagine who you'd have to piss off over there to get assigned the JT case....

[Roc Ingersol]

Yeah... and he sounds reasonable on CNN too.
If you don't know any better.

I thought we all did?

What kind of softball powerpuff bullshit interview is that? jfc.

Why aren't those pussies at GamerGod grilling him on how he conducts himself? How he lies every time he talks about games, how he threatens anyone who disagrees with him, how he smears any visible figure in the gaming industry in the same breath that he complains about ad hominem attacks againt his character?

Allow me to demonstrate the sort of thing I was hoping to read:

Do you think there should be a blanket policy regarding all media of a violent nature, that is to say, should movie theatres and their employees be held liable, as well as Wal-marts and Best Buys and their employees?
Well, they are. What people don’t realize is that in Florida, it is part of the statutory scheme that if you sell an “R” rated ticket to somebody, and it does contain sexual content and is harmful to minors, than that is a criminal act.
We were talking about violent content. Not sexually explicit content. But since you've mentioned it: aren't those laws media agnostic? Don't they already apply to videogames? Why do we need new laws for this particular media? Why do we need laws criminalizing lapses in the ESRB ratings enforcement when there aren't laws criminalizing lapses in MPAA rating enforcement?

But no. We get a nice fat underhand toss to Thompson, so he can spout his philosophy. We get no questions about his tactics. No questions about his lying on national television. No questions about his libelous comments about Doug Lowenstein?

This is why game journalism is a joke.

[zipR]

I wish someone would take them all. Corn Nuts are the devil's testicles.

[omnithrope]

Please don't lump him in with us. Zealot, I'll grant you, but his being Christian or simply using it to push his agenda has nothing to do with why he's "batshit insane."

There's nothing Christian about Thompson's behavior. He's arrogant, deceptive, short tempered, vindictive, and proud. He may say he's one thing, but his actions reveal he's another.

It's unfortunate, but some people use religion to push their own agenda.

That's probably why the original poster said "Christian zelot," and not "a Christian and a zealot."

There's a big difference.

[Phhhh]

As soon as he stops attacking the gaming community for being un-intelligent or in any other way attacks the gaming community I'll start listening. But I can't even read a sentence he's written without being insulted for playing videogames. Somehow I don't think his overly agressive approach is working, seeing as his license to practice law was revoked in Alabama for such a reason.

[Player 1]

This is pitiful. "As soon as he stop behaving like blah blah blah then I'll listen" - "he's not respecting us, why should he respect him?"

This is why gamers are, typically, total fuckheads. (Pardon my language). If you can't see that you're contributing TOWARDS the issue of intolerance and helping to support the one-sided view of gamers that JT presents with crap like that then there's really no hope.

All I ever see from gamers is how it's NEVER their fault, always someone elses. Always Sony or MS or Nintendo or some press release or a shop employee. I've NEVER seen any gamer quietly sit there and show that when somebody attempts to point the finger at them that they can act in a civil, mature and responsible manner.

You won't like what I've just said but, if you stop and think about it, you'll start to see the perspective that is being presented outside of the gamer culture bubble a lot of you seem to live in.

YES a lot of the problem is that parents are not taking responsibility for the proper upbringing of their children. However, gamers are not blameless either. Yet gamers refuse to take responsibility for their own actions - childish name-calling and throwing insults may make you feel big and clever in the short term, but in the long term you're doing a huge amount of damage.

For Gods sake, THINK before you open your mouths. If this is a battle of wits then USE SOME.

Now, the DUMB thing to do is flame. The smart thing to do is think beyond your own prejudices. One gives you a quick buzz at the expense of damaging our culture further, the other will show that you can prove JT wrong - not by saying something but by doing it.

Which are you going to do?

[Tia]

Player 1, first of all I agree with you. Got a question though... what do you think of developers never willing to take responsibility. Not to say they should fulfill parents place or not make violent games. But at least step up to the plate, and not cheat the ESRB, not shake of responsibility for MMO's taken up peoples lives.

They always remind me of a girl walking with a bikini in a dark alley. Sure it is not right that she is endangering herself doing so, but that does not mean she has to be stupid. So sure it is not right that game companies are blamed for things that should be parents responsibility, but why not be "the bigger person" and frakking do something about it.

Personally Rockstar pisses me off. They live for Jack Thompson hate and for the laws that people try to make against them. It made them sell more GTA copies than any publicity. They made themselves to be about "revolution". While all they are is very clever and cold hearted greedy people.

It is people choice to smoke. Yet after many lawsuit finally cigarettes companies are taking some responsiblity. Can we do the same? Imagine if we do and then Jack Thompson will have nothing to say.

[Sion]

Please don't lump him in with us. Zealot, I'll grant you, but his being Christian or simply using it to push his agenda has nothing to do with why he's "batshit insane."


I disagree. Any adult who has an imaginary friend is easaly "batshit insane."

[Savok]

This is pitiful. "As soon as he stop behaving like blah blah blah then I'll listen" - "he's not respecting us, why should he respect him?"

This is why gamers are, typically, total fuckheads. (Pardon my language). If you can't see that you're contributing TOWARDS the issue of intolerance and helping to support the one-sided view of gamers that JT presents with crap like that then there's really no hope.

All I ever see from gamers is how it's NEVER their fault, always someone elses. Always Sony or MS or Nintendo or some press release or a shop employee. I've NEVER seen any gamer quietly sit there and show that when somebody attempts to point the finger at them that they can act in a civil, mature and responsible manner.

You won't like what I've just said but, if you stop and think about it, you'll start to see the perspective that is being presented outside of the gamer culture bubble a lot of you seem to live in.

YES a lot of the problem is that parents are not taking responsibility for the proper upbringing of their children. However, gamers are not blameless either. Yet gamers refuse to take responsibility for their own actions - childish name-calling and throwing insults may make you feel big and clever in the short term, but in the long term you're doing a huge amount of damage.

For Gods sake, THINK before you open your mouths. If this is a battle of wits then USE SOME.

Now, the DUMB thing to do is flame. The smart thing to do is think beyond your own prejudices. One gives you a quick buzz at the expense of damaging our culture further, the other will show that you can prove JT wrong - not by saying something but by doing it.

Which are you going to do?
Firstly if we're such knuckle draggers then there's no need to pardon your language, except for elitism.

Next I shall say bring us gamers a sane person who we can converse with, without having to deal with lies and threats from someone quite obviously not on the same planet as the rest of the human race. I'm sure he has valid points, but he isn't helping the credibility of said points is he? The town looney tells you to exercise regulary and then attempts to eat a brick, sure what he said is quite correct, but the fact it came from his mouth, which now has a brick in it, you then tend to ignore such advise after considering the source.

Get a better source, folk may listen then.

Also I'm not sure how the childish antics of Internet folk are somehow partly to blame for violence in the youth.

[OUX]

Ok Player 1 I can respect your point, but if you honestly believe that call up Mr. T and see what would happen if you said "Yeah as a gamer it is partial my fault that some kids are violent and shoot people." See if what you get is an appropriately measured response of someone who is a reasonable person. So what if people flame on forums or call each other names that isn't damaging anything. It is hardly a reason for me to take your "responsibility" that you speak of. Also "responsibility" for WHAT exactly? What should gamers take responsibility for? I have been a gamer for years, I am in college, I call my Mom at least once a week, I don't have a police record, I throw barbs as well as the next guy but I never do it to hurt anyone beyond a snappy retort that is usually snapped back, I don't torture animals, I don't take tootsie rolls from toddlers, I don't shoot or encourage people to shoot other people, I don't put cameras in women's restrooms, I don't dine and dash, I do my best to tell the truth, and I don't discriminate people for anything but their character. What EXACTLY do I need to take responsibility for, and why EXACTLY do I need to respond to flagrant allegations with pacifism which you so readily confuse with “maturity”? Believe it or not but people speaking out on forums like this is only progress otherwise your looking at doing nothing, or forceful protest. I for one refuse to just take these falsehoods lying down, and I will continue to speak my mind whatever it maybe because I don’t want violence anymore than the next guy on here, but I will also not be ridiculed by a self-serving hate-monger like Thompson.

[The Iron Weasel]

its video games for god sakes, and who said he needs to respect US (gamers)? What the hell? are gamers a race now? Yup its time to get out of a house before you realize you wasted your life looking at a computer monitor.

I'm sorry that I don't like being insulted and being called a pedophile for playing the sims, or a murderer ready to kill because I played GTA. He insults us all on a mother fucking daily basis and that creates stereotypes that can do nothing but harm us.

[derjester]

[QUOTE=OUX]What EXACTLY do I need to take responsibility for, and why EXACTLY do I need to respond to flagrant allegations with pacifism which you so readily confuse with “maturity”?[QUOTE]
I'm also curious about what is broken in me because I play video games. I hesitate to even say he has some valid points. I don't see what is broken in the current system that doesn't allow responsible parents to be responsible parents. I don't see an increased level of violence due to the advent of video gaming. Claiming that video games makes people violent is like claiming TV makes you violent. Video games are so prevalent in society today that if they did cause in increase in aggressive behavior, wouldn't it show? Since GTA was released the number of School shootings has gone down (from what I understand), however the coverage of said shootings has gone up.
From what I gather violent video games has had the opposite effect. Here (http://gr.bolt.com/oldsite/articles/violence/violence.htm) is a great article with the details of what happened to the level of violent crime when the PS2 and GTA hit the street.
My big question is why no interviewer has brought this up? I think all the representatives of the gaming community have been inhumanly respectful of the hatefilled sentiment Thompson has had for them. They even steer clear of the tough questions Thompson most likely would skip in favor if his made up world where games instigate violence. I bet he believe second hand smoke causes cancer too.

[Player 1]

Player 1, first of all I agree with you. Got a question though... what do you think of developers never willing to take responsibility. Not to say they should fulfill parents place or not make violent games. But at least step up to the plate, and not cheat the ESRB, not shake of responsibility for MMO's taken up peoples lives.

Well, I didn't mention it because it didn't occur to me at the time. Developers do need to be responsible - we all do. Rockstar have demonstrated that behaving irresponsibly and then trying to pretend you haven't won't work all the time. Yes, they generally employ shock tactics and it's worked well for them. To be fair, they've backed their publicity up with some pretty stellar games. Many people are upset with Rockstar - both inside the industry and out - as it has made everyone's life more troublesome.

Games have never been so big - the spotlight is on them like never before. There were crude strip-poker games in the 80s with fairly naff digitised pictures - but few people cared because it simply wasn't being noticed. It might be regarded as bad as Hot Coffee when doing a like-for-like comparison but the simple fact of the matter is that times were different 20 years ago.

You can argue that Rockstar feed of the publicity of the shocking content of their games and it has as much weight as the argument that JT is benefitting from the publicty of his shocking outbursts.

At the same time that shouldn't detract from judging Rockstar's games in their own right or JT's points in their own right.

It *is* a shame that such landmark games as the GTA series will be remembered by many for all the wrong reasons. Perhaps, in 20 years time there will be a similar sort of retrospective appreciation for them as there is now for stuff like The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I doubt it as the culture seems determined to stay as childish as possible and casts a shadow of the credibility of games as a whole.

Firstly if we're such knuckle draggers then there's no need to pardon your language, except for elitism.

I was apologising for bad manners. I'm sorry if you're determined to see that as elitism.

I'm sure he has valid points, but he isn't helping the credibility of said points is he?

No - and that's EXACTLY the problem that gamers are giving themselves too. The behaviour is parallel to JT but both parties refuse to admit they're being stubborn and stupid. Gamers insist it's their right to yell "HEADSHOT!" over Xbox live or make retarded posts or spam Amazon.com. Yes, it is your right but you're destroying the credibility of the culture at the same time.

Having a right doesn't excuse the malpractice of it.

Try doing the following:

1) Find 5 examples on the internet where a gamer/gamers are behaving in precisely the manner that JT suggests when he makes his sweeping generalisations.

2) Find 5 examples on the internet where gamers show JT's sweeping generalisations to be utterly disproved.

Of the two, which do you think is the harder task and by what degree?

I'm sure he has valid points, but he isn't helping the credibility of said points is he?

No he's not. And neither are gamers. Except Jack is one man showing himself to lack credibility, gamers are an entire culture (not a race - suggesting as much is to have a vastly over inflated sense of significance) and most of them appear to be working towards an utter lack of credibility. For reference, see point 2 in blue, above.

Gamers have, for years, shown a huge degree of intolerance and a narrow "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitude. It's time for us all to grow up - we're not a cottage industry any more and we're not 8 year old kids either. It's not just about shouting down people like JT or dismissing everything he says because you assume it must be worthless. Activities like console wars, hate campaigns and treating unsubstantiated rumour as gospel fact don't paint this culture in a very good light either.

As gamers, it's time to start taking responsibility for your actions and outbursts. Think before you speak. Think AFTER you speak too. Don't just say "Well, once Rockstar act responsibly or Sony act responsibly then I will too" as it just makes you sound like a 10 year old saying "Well, HE started it!". Don't stoop to that level, rise above it. Don't blame Square Enix for allowing you to speculate on a rumour of FF13 or DQ9 - take responsibility for treating it as fact without making efforts to substantiate the claim.

There is an enormous amount gamers can do to help improve this situation. Gamers outnumber every other type of person involved in this farce. They outnumber the lawyers, the murderers, the parents who sue, the developers, the publishers and the judges. Why not start using these numbers FOR our culture rather than AGAINST it?

Ask yourself how you want the rest of the world to view our culture and ask yourself if you're happy with what the rest of the world is seeing.

What are you going to do about it?

[PixelSamurai]

A normal parent? There's no misunderstanding here; he thinks Doom is a murder simulator training kids to kill. I didn't imagine him saying that. I'm not going to play the "find the good points admist the bullshit" game. He's written off the entire gaming community as moronic nerds brainwashed by Rockstar; he threatens websites with bullshit lawsuits and clutters up police departments with crybaby complaints about bullshit plots to kill him.

I should've just summed this up in two words: Fuck 'im

[Player 1]

So what if people flame on forums or call each other names that isn't damaging anything. It is hardly a reason for me to take your "responsibility" that you speak of.

It's incredibly damaging to this culture and it's why we're not taken seriously. If 99% of lawyers acted like JT would you take their profession seriously? Yet 99% of gamers all act the same way and wonder why THEY aren't taken seriously. And then throw tantrums about it...

..and the cycle repeats itself..

Also "responsibility" for WHAT exactly? What should gamers take responsibility for?

For your behaviour and how you may (or may not) help to paint this culture in a way the suits the ignorant people that want to police it.

What EXACTLY do I need to take responsibility for, and why EXACTLY do I need to respond to flagrant allegations with pacifism

Because, two wrongs don't make a right. If you respond to accusations with more accusations do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

I never suggested being a pacifist, I just don't believe this wild knee-jerk reaction to *any* criticism of our culture is doing anything positive.

which you so readily confuse with “maturity”?

Perhaps if you calmed down and read my post in a mature and civil manner you wouldn't be so keen to misinterpret "not acting like a moron" as pacifism. The behaviour of gamers responding to criticism that I have seen over the last decade is comparable to a stroppy child getting a telling off. By my personal standards, that's not mature behaviour. Therefore, when I see it being repeated every single day I don't regard the protagonists to be mature.

Believe it or not but people speaking out on forums like this is only progress otherwise your looking at doing nothing, or forceful protest. I for one refuse to just take these falsehoods lying down, and I will continue to speak my mind whatever it maybe because I don’t want violence anymore than the next guy on here, but I will also not be ridiculed by a self-serving hate-monger like Thompson.

Ranting on forums is about the laziest way to respond. It certainly isn't going to make a shred of difference in the real world - apart from when someone like JT want's to easily find ammunition for why gamers don't think before they speak. If you're genuinely upset with the situation and 'not going to take it lying down' why don't you do more than sit on your ass and rant to a small audience that is already biased in your favour. What's that going to prove? That you can type and are happy to preach to the converted??

What's next, you're going to start an online petition? A hate-blog? Boycot some company?

Sure - keep throwing your toys out of the pram. Do it for long enough and you'll just end up with no toys. And who will be to blame for that?

Not you of course. :rolleyes:

[Liquidize105]

I totally agree.

I also tend to agree that a lot of his good points are lost by the way he presents them. It's very much a case of it not being what you say but the way that you say them.

What a lot of people are failing to see is that, by stooping to his level, we are proving him 100% right about his generalisations about gamers. It appears to me that most gamers dismiss everything he says and prefer to call him names and/or prejudge him. Whether it's warranted or not can you honestly say that such a response is the best way to prove a man who calls all gamers 'morons' as wrong?

He's accusing all of us of moronic behaviour and our response is to act like morons. I personally fail to see how this is doing our culture any favours.

I mentioned this a few days ago - few seemed interested. (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7281)

I fear that gamers are doing just as much damage to the public image of videogames as much as Jack Thompson is - but a lot of us have been doing it for longer.

On a side note, my editor has come away from a lengthy interview with JT totally unscathed and found him to be "a staggeringly reasonable man" and "far different than most people's idea of him". The full interview will be published in the UK in a couple of month's time. I'm currently trying to dissuade him from using "You don't know Jack" as the title. ;)



Now this IS moronic behaviour. Making this a front page news item and then stating "Who cares?" is pretty contradictory. Additionally, the recommendation of taking away his platform would make sense - but by creating a front page news item about him (again) you've just reinforced his platform!

See? Gamers can do dumb things too.

I wrote the editorial comment.

I think we can all agree that it's always been his methods that make him a fanatic. The man's got a mouth full of glittering words, but when the chips are down and the stakes are high, the man reverts back to a primate.

So despite this you're lending him your ears? You're giving him preferential treatment, for what? Are game players not people, and like normal people, get angry at bullshit thrown in their faces? It maybe surprising to you, but some people don't like that.

BTW nice idealogical assault there. In the real-world you'd been stomped into the ground for this.

Damaging to this culture? JT is trying to pull one over this culture with his propagandistic crusade... He's out hunting witches and you're saying "You know what, the problem will fix itself if only we act like good little children and let him do his thing."

He is not going to stop regardless of how you carry yourself.

When you're that sick and tired of someone, the words are gonna be "Get the hell out of here" instead of "let's do what you want and hope that you'd stop."

[Player 1]

I think we can all agree that it's always been his methods that make him a fanatic. The man's got a mouth full of glittering words, but when the chips are down and the stakes are high, the man reverts back to a primate.

Yes - and if you keep pushing people into corners they're going to lash out. I wonder, have you ever read anything Jack Thompson has written outside of this particular ugly spot on industry history?

Or are you happy to judge someone completely and dismiss absolutely everything they say as garbage?

If your choice is the latter then I am very surprised that you should be so riled when someone is choosing to return the sentiment to you. The word hypocrisy springs to mind.

So despite this you're lending him your ears?

As I said, I don't agree with his methods but I believe he makes some valid points. If you insist on dismissing everything he says because he called you some silly name then you're opting to become ignorant. In doing so you simply devalue your comments to a greater degree because you demonstrate that you're not interested in listening to any point of view other than your own.

You're giving him preferential treatment, for what?

No I'm not - I'm simply refusing to dismiss him. You've just demonstrated what I mean by the "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality. You assume that because I've indicated that I listen to him that I must favour him over, for the sake of argument, you. That isn't the case - but you need to see things in more shades than just black and white to appreciate it.

Are game players not people, and like normal people, get angry at bullshit thrown in their faces? It maybe surprising to you, but some people don't like that.

I read bullshit on this site every single day. Yet Evil Avatar seem offended when it gets told it's peddling bullshit and starts going on about how it's the perogative of the site to do what it likes. Why is it ok for you to do it but not others? The phrase "double standards" comes to mind.

BTW nice idealogical assault there. In the real-world you'd been stomped into the ground for this.

The great sadness is that I'm looking at this situation from the REAL WORLD not from the narrow perspective of insular gamer culture that you appear to be writing from.

[Player 1]

Damaging to this culture? JT is trying to pull one over this culture with his propagandistic crusade... He's out hunting witches and you're saying "You know what, the problem will fix itself if only we act like good little children and let him do his thing."

Oh dear. You're really determined only to listen to the sound of your own voice aren't you.

I said (very clearly - or so I thought) that gamer behaviour is adding to the damage being done since JT has brought this industry and culture under such close scrutiny.

I never said it would magically fix itself if you behaved. This isn't a videogame where your energy replenishes itself if you stay out of trouble.

However, if you are prepared to STOP causing the extra damage then you can, at least, go some way to preventing a bad situation from getting worse.

He is not going to stop regardless of how you carry yourself.

So you think it's just better to carry on proving him right rather than make ANY effort to calm the situation down?

I'm sorry, I disagree.

When you're that sick and tired of someone, the words are gonna be "Get the hell out of here" instead of "let's do what you want and hope that you'd stop."

Which is the difference between starving a fire of oxygen or pouring petrol on it.

If you want this fire to stop burning why are you so determined to pour petrol onto it?


Once again - this is a gamer saying that NONE of this is his fault and he'll be damned if he's going to make any effort to make things better. "If you're not with us you're against us".

I appreciate you may be angry but you attitude and proposed actions can only serve to escalate the situation. It's a terrible shame.

[Liquidize105]

God, I hate it when someone pulls apart a post like that.


I read bullshit on this site every single day. Yet Evil Avatar seem offended when it gets told it's peddling bullshit and starts going on about how it's the perogative of the site to do what it likes. Why is it ok for you to do it but not others? The phrase "double standards" comes to mind.
This site is not a one man show - it's staff + readers, with either one being none the wiser. When there's a biase, it's self-corrected. Hell, I don't agree with plenty of stuff Avatar'd say or penguin would say, and I'd tell them in a non-Thompsonish manner.

But you know what? When something is posted, it stays. I respect their right to say whatever it is they want to say because they do it in a non-Thompsonish manner.

That's why I'm here. That's why I took on more responsibility.

The great sadness is that I'm looking at this situation from the REAL WORLD not from the narrow perspective of insular gamer culture that you appear to be writing from.
Try to carry yourself like that then. Kneel down and pray. For whatever reason that you feel you are justified, you won't be heard if you don't turn up the volume.

The real-world doesn't run on morals, it runs on ambition - and JT is a very selfish man.

[Player 1]

He may be selfish, but gamers as a whole are doing him a great many favours by behaving in precisely the manner in which he accuses them.

This whole righteous "I have the right to post bullshit and behave like a moron if I want to" is fine. What's not fine is that gamers whine when someone *dares* to call their bluff and and call them immature morons who can't take criticism.

When you think about it, you're actually making his job pretty easy.


But it's easier to sit there looking outraged and quoting some freedom-of-speech crap at everyone than to actually make any effort to improve the situation isn't it?

[Liquidize105]

He may be selfish?

Hahahaha. For whatever reason, you're more comfortable criticizing yourself. Has anyone told you lately that you're a nice guy?

As far as I know: JT's lack of character makes people angry, videogame doesn't do that.

The man is a loose cannon. He makes his own job harder.

[Player 1]

and JT is a very selfish man.

He may be selfish?.

Why are you questioning yourself?

Please note that "may be" and "maybe" have quite different meanings.

Has anyone told you lately that you're a nice guy?

Actually, yes. :p

If you don't mind, I'll just assume that you were being sarcastic with that last remark though. Please feel free to correct me on this.

The man is a loose cannon. He makes his own job harder.

I'm not denying that. But he's ONE MAN making his job harder and has THOUSANDS of gamers making his job easier. This is rather the point I'm trying to make and, it would seem, the one you're determined not to understand.

[Liquidize105]

I'm saying you disregard his faults quite easily.

I was being serious with the nice guy comment. Nice guys usual have what they call "Blind Self Indulgent Humility."

I don't think the thousands approve or disapprove anything he says. That's not substantial evidence. It makes him look like a joke when a grown man goes and tells the teacher on random anonymous persons who email him supposedly "death threats" and who supposedly are "immature kids."

You ponder on it.

[nonchalance]

Why are we bothering with the guy?
He has no relevance to the debate other than what he's tried to take upon himself.

The only reason he's the one who gets in the news is because he's the one raising the questions - and let's be honest, there are questions that need to be asked.

One: Why is media in America self-rated by industry instead of by an impartial body?
Two: What happens if retailers ignore the ratings system?
Three: Why is this being dealt with randomly by states instead of consistently by the nation?

For some reason, all the game sites are playing the man and ignoring the ball - if you play the ball, the fuckhead who keeps up the personal attacks falls behind.

[Savok]

I was apologising for bad manners. I'm sorry if you're determined to see that as elitism.
With your "mother knows best" tone, it was more forced upon me.

No - and that's EXACTLY the problem that gamers are giving themselves too. The behaviour is parallel to JT but both parties refuse to admit they're being stubborn and stupid. Gamers insist it's their right to yell "HEADSHOT!" over Xbox live or make retarded posts or spam Amazon.com. Yes, it is your right but you're destroying the credibility of the culture at the same time.

Having a right doesn't excuse the malpractice of it.

Try doing the following:

1) Find 5 examples on the internet where a gamer/gamers are behaving in precisely the manner that JT suggests when he makes his sweeping generalisations.

2) Find 5 examples on the internet where gamers show JT's sweeping generalisations to be utterly disproved.

Of the two, which do you think is the harder task and by what degree?
Hey for kicks, lets compare lets compare kill counts of all soliders to have ever lived and one serial killer. Man those soldiers are evil murderers aren't they, all those dead people, that one serial killer did in so few by comparison, he must be a saint.

If 99% of lawyers acted like JT would you take their profession seriously?
How many people here trust lawyers?

Ranting on forums is about the laziest way to respond. It certainly isn't going to make a shred of difference in the real world
Yeah, that's why Dan Rather still has a job.

Player, you're the guy who thinks that if we give the terrorists a big enough hug, they'll stop trying to kill us aren't you. How someone can have such a pure hatred is simply beyond your comprehension. Gamers are not reasonable with Jack because he can't be reasoned with, he's shown this with his endless lies, threats, scare tactics and intimidation, his actions speak his true, toxic nature.

And if you think gaming culture is bad you really don't get into the depths of the Internet much. Ever been to a poltical site? Compared to them, we're the god damn upper class. And you know what's crazier, they get things done, real things. These days the loudest assholes wins.

Welcome to the 21st century, I'm sure you don't want to accept the demise of humanity but here it is.

[blackzc]

Im not for sure what he is exactly bitching about now, but a month ago he did a interview on retro gaming radio and he started out good, ...(kids dont need to play violent games, recent scientific studies shows violent games effect kids), and so on, but the interviewer got him to talk about the affect on violent games on people in general.

which is when he really showed that he hates violent game altogether and he just wants them gone, (he should go after hollywood or porn makers instead), These are two completely different issues, there are lots of legal things in this world that are bad for you.

Gamers that do not have kids should just stay out of this, it doent effect them.
Games already have ratings, enforce the rating, end of story.


And no GAMERS are not a RACE and dont need any sort of respect from anyone, this is the real world people.

[Player 1]

Hey for kicks, lets compare lets compare kill counts of all soliders to have ever lived and one serial killer.

Hey, for kicks, why don't you try answering the question instead of going out of your way to avoid the point being made?

How many people here trust lawyers?

Once again, you're succeeding in avoiding the point.

Player, you're the guy who thinks that if we give the terrorists a big enough hug, they'll stop trying to kill us aren't you. How someone can have such a pure hatred is simply beyond your comprehension.

How about we keep this on topic rather than throw some alarmist comparisons with terrorists and serial killers around? The tone of your rhetoric is getting alarmingly close to JT's when he makes Hitler and Pearl Harbour references.

Yet people like you feel you're a world apart from JT's mentality..

Gamers are not reasonable with Jack because he can't be reasoned with, he's shown this with his endless lies, threats, scare tactics and intimidation, his actions speak his true, toxic nature.

So that's it. Why bother to make peace when you can have a nice juicy war? Why listen when you can just shout louder instead?

You seem to act as though you're happy for this situation to keep on escalating.

And if you think gaming culture is bad you really don't get into the depths of the Internet much. Ever been to a poltical site? Compared to them, we're the god damn upper class.

Except this issue isn't about how gamer culture compares to others - it's about gamer culture on it's own. You keep trying to take the spotlight off the issue and suggest that things can't be bad in this culture because they're worse somewhere else. Yes, they may be worse somewhere else - but that other culture ISN'T THE ISSUE. You're just using diversionary tactics to avoid what IS the issue.

These days the loudest assholes wins....Welcome to the 21st century, I'm sure you don't want to accept the demise of humanity but here it is.

Well, what a defeatist attitude! "We can't win so lets not bother trying"?

[Savok]

Hey, for kicks, why don't you try answering the question instead of going out of your way to avoid the point being made?
You idiot, you can't even see what your saying when I put it in front of you. Of course it's easier to find gamers being assholes, there's millions of us. There's only one Jack though, kinda fucks your whole argument doesn't it.

Once again, you're succeeding in avoiding the point.
Which is what? We should conduct ourselves like professionals? Newsflash, we aren't. For most of us this isn't a job, this is our hobby.

How about we keep this on topic rather than throw some alarmist comparisons with terrorists and serial killers around? The tone of your rhetoric is getting alarmingly close to JT's when he makes Hitler and Pearl Harbour references.

Yet people like you feel you're a world apart from JT's mentality..

So that's it. Why bother to make peace when you can have a nice juicy war? Why listen when you can just shout louder instead?

You seem to act as though you're happy for this situation to keep on escalating.
And now we see your nature.

Except this issue isn't about how gamer culture compares to others - it's about gamer culture on it's own. You keep trying to take the spotlight off the issue and suggest that things can't be bad in this culture because they're worse somewhere else. Yes, they may be worse somewhere else - but that other culture ISN'T THE ISSUE. You're just using diversionary tactics to avoid what IS the issue.
That issue being we're all acting like we're 12? I'm telling you that's how the entire god damn world is these days, look around you.

And why the fuck should people change who they are because one proven lunatic doesn't like it? Quite honestly, I'm sick of assholes telling me what to do, I don't remember Jack getting elected by people, he simply took his power by using bullshit. The man has no say in my life, simple as that.

Well, what a defeatist attitude! "We can't win so lets not bother trying"?
We're loud assholes aren't we? I say trying to be the loudest (and according to you, winning) means we haven't given up.

[Player 1]

You idiot, you can't even see what your saying when I put it in front of you. Of course it's easier to find gamers being assholes, there's millions of us. There's only one Jack though, kinda fucks your whole argument doesn't it.

Thanks for the insult.

It doesn't really mess up my argument because, as I've been saying, one guy making himself look wrong is pretty insignificant when you have thousands of gamers making him look right.

Which is what? We should conduct ourselves like professionals? Newsflash, we aren't. For most of us this isn't a job, this is our hobby.

I never said professionals, no. I suggested that, rather than behaving like spoiled brats who complain, lash out and refuse to pay attention to anyone who dares to present a contrary point of view that gamers should, instead, act in a MATURE, CIVIL and THOUGHTFUL manner.

That's not being 'professional' that's just opting NOT to behave like a moron.

And, just as I've said before, yes, you can quote your right to behave like a moron as much as you like - but acting like a moron just works in JT's favour and serves to support his generalisations of this culture.

You want to have the right to behave how you like but you appear to get upset when people express criticism of that behaviour. You can't have it both ways in the real world - and shouting loudest WON'T prove that you're right. And you can't expect the world to jump to your tune - if you want things to improve then they need to start with YOU, not with everyone else.

And why the fuck should people change who they are because one proven lunatic doesn't like it? Quite honestly, I'm sick of assholes telling me what to do, I don't remember Jack getting elected by people, he simply took his power by using bullshit. The man has no say in my life, simple as that.

Like it or not, JT has started a ball rolling. As indignant as you feel and as determined as you are - all I'm suggesting is you think more carefully before you act. Do you think Rockstar were happy with their recall, repackaging, re-rating and re-releasing of GTA:SA? Do you think they were happy with the hit on their finances? Yet you're complaining about how hard done by you are. You really seem to lack an appreciation of the bigger picture.

For better or worse, JT has created a situation whereby videogaming is under close scrutiny by 'outsiders'. That's the situation - to deny it is to stick your head in the sand. So, if people are finally taking notice of what we, as a culture, are doing, why are you so determined to show them your worst, most unreasonable, immature and stubborn side?

"Because it's my right!"

Well good for you! Now, all you need to do is take some responsibility for your own behaviour when people criticise it (instead of saying "Hey, JT started it!!!") and not get upset when these outsiders call gamers thoughtless morons. The last thing you should do is respond like a thoughtless moron:

We're loud assholes aren't we? I say trying to be the loudest (and according to you, winning) means we haven't given up.

I say that being a loud asshole isn't the way to prove to someone wrong when they're saying you're a thoughtless moron.

...

It's clear to me, from this topic and from the deafening silence my 'count to 10' topic got, that this particular group of gamers are not interested in improving the perception of this culture. They seem happier to moan and complain and argue than do anything reasonable like listen or tolerate any other point of view.

Fine. Throw your tantrums and act like children. Just don't act annoyed or surprised when your peers seek to treat you like children.

[Savok]

Thanks for the insult.

It doesn't really mess up my argument because, as I've been saying, one guy making himself look wrong is pretty insignificant when you have thousands of gamers making him look right.
More people, more assholes, law of nature.

I never said professionals, no. I suggested that, rather than behaving like spoiled brats who complain, lash out and refuse to pay attention to anyone who dares to present a contrary point of view that gamers should, instead, act in a MATURE, CIVIL and THOUGHTFUL manner.

That's not being 'professional' that's just opting NOT to behave like a moron.

And, just as I've said before, yes, you can quote your right to behave like a moron as much as you like - but acting like a moron just works in JT's favour and serves to support his generalisations of this culture.

You want to have the right to behave how you like but you appear to get upset when people express criticism of that behaviour. You can't have it both ways in the real world - and shouting loudest WON'T prove that you're right. And you can't expect the world to jump to your tune - if you want things to improve then they need to start with YOU, not with everyone else.
Again you make this seem unique to the gaming population. Go anywhere, do anything, you'll find assholes. The only real difference between our assholes and other assholes, is our assholes usually know how to use a webpage.

Like it or not, JT has started a ball rolling. As indignant as you feel and as determined as you are - all I'm suggesting is you think more carefully before you act. Do you think Rockstar were happy with their recall, repackaging, re-rating and re-releasing of GTA:SA? Do you think they were happy with the hit on their finances? Yet you're complaining about how hard done by you are. You really seem to lack an appreciation of the bigger picture.
Odd I don't see how PAL release date and conversion issues have a connection with Jack. Closest I get is the lack of an R rating for games in Australia, and that's only due to a few assholes in government.

For better or worse, JT has created a situation whereby videogaming is under close scrutiny by 'outsiders'. That's the situation - to deny it is to stick your head in the sand. So, if people are finally taking notice of what we, as a culture, are doing, why are you so determined to show them your worst, most unreasonable, immature and stubborn side?

"Because it's my right!"

Well good for you! Now, all you need to do is take some responsibility for your own behaviour when people criticise it (instead of saying "Hey, JT started it!!!") and not get upset when these outsiders call gamers thoughtless morons. The last thing you should do is respond like a thoughtless moron:
Well I'd rather hope they'd just play the games rather then waste time dissecting the culture. Again you seem to think this is something people have never seen before, and that we must show them the light. There are annoying people dissecting every subculture on the planet, there has been this entire modern era and probably even before then.

I say that being a loud asshole isn't the way to prove to someone wrong when they're saying you're a thoughtless moron.

...

It's clear to me, from this topic and from the deafening silence my 'count to 10' topic got, that this particular group of gamers are not interested in improving the perception of this culture. They seem happier to moan and complain and argue than do anything reasonable like listen or tolerate any other point of view.
What topic? I don't look at the forums much, though I wouldn't worry as they're more likely avoiding you then the topic.

Fine. Throw your tantrums and act like children. Just don't act annoyed or surprised when your peers seek to treat you like children.
Am I going to get spanked and sent to my room now?

[derjester]

I think a lot of people are missing the point. Player has a completely valid point. Why should we behave like Jack? It really doesn't matter what Jack thinks of us or our past time, or what he says about it regardless of his standing with the press. Lashing out with name calling doesn't help, though it may make us feel a little bit better. It's preposterous to think that every little obscenity we spout on a forum is going to hit Jack's ears and he's going to whine about it on National TV. As gamers the best foot we can put forward is to not be the stereotype portrayed by Jack.
Granted in the world around us it's usually the loud mouth alarmist who doesn't know the facts that get's the most press, but we need to point out the flaws in the argument instead of lashing out and name calling. It's responsible debate. The best thing you can do is prove Jack wrong. I honestly don't care about Jack's behavior. Hell, he's down right entertaining. His special brand of insanity is hilarious. Because of his insanity PA donated money to the ESA, and one of the reasons why Childs Play started is because of this horrible portrayal of blood thirsty gamers.