Warhammer runner up for game of the year. Seriously? [Archive]

Vanthar

01-04-2009, 01:25 PM

I'd think the hate is because there's no way a slightly better than average MMO belongs as the runner up for game of the year. I didn't really think Warhammer was even in the discussion. If it's so great, why is it losing so many subscribers returning to WoW?

Anyways, I agree with Fallout 3 and most of their list. I just don't really think Warhammer was #2 this year. Not even close really..

Ulysses

01-04-2009, 01:46 PM

How much did Bethesda pay then ?

Hapless

01-04-2009, 02:11 PM

WAR is a damn fine mmo.

I laughed.

Khash

01-04-2009, 03:42 PM

I'd think the hate is because there's no way a slightly better than average MMO belongs as the runner up for game of the year. I didn't really think Warhammer was even in the discussion. If it's so great, why is it losing so many subscribers returning to WoW?
Maybe because the people to made this list aren't a bunch of PvE carebears...

Chimpbot

01-04-2009, 05:15 PM

Its Gamespy and... Butthurt WoW fanboy much? WAR is a damn fine mmo.

Hmm, that whole list kind of sucks, what a crappy year.

Gamespy or not, an average-at-best MMO in its birthing pains really doesn't belong on a top-10 list. To be fair, neither does an MMO expanion pack; WotLK is nifty and all, but I definitely wouldn't rank it up there with the best gaming experiences of the year; amusingly enough, I actually started playing WoW less after the expansion. While all of my friends were shitting their pants in Northrend, I just got tired of the grind and revisted TF2. It pulled me out of WoW's jaws for the time being, so that gets my game of the year award.

Thanks, Valve.

Suicidal ShiZuru

01-04-2009, 05:52 PM

Can someone with MMO experience and an actual interest in the genre explain to me why WAR is so bad? Is it because you cant have glowing armor, there arent ten million colorful armor sets, its focused on real pvp, its not a total grind, the crafting system is useless for a while, you can pvp from lvl1, its not about gotta catch em all collecting and the people arent retarded?

Hapless

01-04-2009, 06:03 PM

its focused on real pvp

This is what baffles me. It's not real pvp. It's the same pvp as WoW with some slightly different mechanics. It's just another level and classed based system with no penalties for dieing. It's just another grind.

Suicidal ShiZuru

01-04-2009, 06:17 PM

This is what baffles me. It's not real pvp. It's the same pvp as WoW with some slightly different mechanics. It's just another level and classed based system with no penalties for dieing. It's just another grind.

Then what is real PvP, a ten year old game?

I guess it boils down to your style, if you want only instanced crap instead of open world PvP and large scale battles go WoW.

Evil Avatar

01-04-2009, 06:20 PM

I wonder how much money EA paid gamespy.

More than they paid us! ;)

Evil Avatar

01-04-2009, 06:22 PM

Hapless

01-04-2009, 06:23 PM

Then what is real PvP, a ten year old game?

I guess it boils down to your style, if you want only instanced crap instead of open world PvP and large scale battles go WoW.

Your right. Real pvp games aren't made these days. I have a little hope for Darkfall, but coming from a small unknown company, it's up in the air at this point.

And last i heard, you aren't going to find large scale battles in WAR either.

Suicidal ShiZuru

01-04-2009, 06:50 PM

All of the above. And the fact that they cut tons of content prior to the game launch. :D

Alright so you hate MMOs? Wait I shouldve said PC games?

Your right. Real pvp games aren't made these days. I have a little hope for Darkfall, but coming from a small unknown company, it's up in the air at this point.

And last i heard, you aren't going to find large scale battles in WAR either.

Darkfall is the only hope for a return to the old school sandbox style MMOG.

I still love it in WAR when I hear that our Keeps are under attack and my guild and alliance form up to go kick ass and take our land back with a real sense of urgency and no damn queue.

Evil Avatar

01-04-2009, 07:33 PM

Alright so you hate MMOs? Wait I shouldve said PC games?

I subscribe to both WoW and EVE Online. :D

Khash

01-05-2009, 12:38 AM

All of the above. And the fact that they cut tons of content prior to the game launch. :D
Still talking right out of your ass, I see. I guess it's fun to make shit up. Maybe I'll give it a try. Evilavatar.com matters. Hmm... not really feelin' it.

Hapless

01-05-2009, 02:14 AM

Still talking right out of your ass, I see. I guess it's fun to make shit up. Maybe I'll give it a try. Evilavatar.com matters. Hmm... not really feelin' it.

Somebody found their big boy pants. Also, the fact that they cut out 70% of the cities and two of the classes a month before launch is made up and a lie.

Wolfgang

01-05-2009, 04:59 AM

WAR wasn't different enough from WoW. When it came out the performance was terrible on lower end PCs that ran WoW great. They had too many servers at launch and the servers felt empty.

The PvP wasn't any different than WoW. People were doing Scenarios in War (WoW's battlegrounds) and then RvR was basically while people were in queue. Destruction way out numbered Ordered, so all the lower level Keeps on the 3 servers I played on where always controlled by Destruction.

It was PvP WoW I guess -- which sounds good. Though you still needed to form Raids, get gear, level, etc.. to take Keeps, kill NPCs and do RvR.

WoW has also added almost everything from WAR -- they have 1 RvR area in Lich King with a Keep, Siege Weapons and Special gear in the Keep just like in WAR.

WAR was good, but sadly WoW is better. I went back to WoW and have enjoyed releveling from 0 - 80 (Blood Elf Paladin) more than my WAR Warrior Priest (WAR's Paladin).

Herald42

01-05-2009, 07:20 AM

I'm personally glad they cut the cities they did, too. The time they would have spent giving basic detail to the other cities was put into fleshing out and the testing of cities they do have, making Altdorf and IC feel alive, and perfecting the taking of a city even though my server (Vortex) hasn't made it to a city sacking yet. The classes that were cut are being brought back or re-done, and they were in dire need of revision at the time of launch. They added little to the game, and I'm glad they took the extra time to fix them up.

If anything, WAR suffers from too much content. Often, I've outleveled the content that's there before I've finished a single racial pairing (1/3 of the content available). The RVR content is so vast that it allows players to avoid each other in the final tier while besieging keeps. Mythic was seriously overdoing the amount of content, and it would take more players than top of the line servers can handle being in a single place (their servers can handle around 200 v 200 in a single zone, plus mobs) to actually get to the point where a single city can be sacked, much less three of them.

Kweli

01-05-2009, 09:02 AM

The two classes they cut are in the game now, they spent more time balancing them out..

As for the cities, theres hundreds of them already.. what the hell does it matter that they removed some that they felt werent good enough (even if they were 'bigger' cities)

I dont even play the game, so i dont care what "popular opinion" is.. but i just feel like I should defend the game against people who make up stuff

Panthera

01-05-2009, 11:07 AM

Yeah, this game is fantastic, and it's just gotten better since release. The RvR has really come into its own, and it plays a million times better than PvP ever did in World of Warcraft. Multiple-warband (40 player) RvR raids are a nightly occurance, and I'm not even in T4 yet. People are coordinated, with scouts, decoys, and counter-raids forming quickly. People are leaving for WoW because, well, that's what ALWAYS happens when people discover that it's not WoW, and the server populations are still good.

I don't think the capital cities were a big loss. It feels good focused how it is right now, and even if they did return them, I'd rather they weren't a part of the RvR.

There are still two classes that were cut. There are plans for their return, but one or both might be changed to another class entirely from what was planned. I'm looking forward to it, but by no means is the game incomplete as is.

Suicidal ShiZuru

01-05-2009, 11:31 AM

I was in the beta for nearly a year before release, all of the crap about content being cut is hilarious since it was almost all done for good reason. Just about everything has been said, so WoW whores will like nothing but WoW.

Speaking of that I got on for the first time in a while, twenty minutes later I logged after sending 1k gold to a friend and saying fuck this.

AversionFX

01-05-2009, 12:00 PM

its focused on real pvp,

I would love to know how you possibly get "real" pvp from random number generators. WAR was just another title trying to take a crack at WoW's throne. It failed. Most/all my friends who were stoked for WAR are already back playing WoW.

PS - "Real" PVP would be shooters or strategy games - where player skill is much more important than class mechanics.

As for the list, it looks about right. Not particularly keen on seeing WAR or the WoW expansion, but whatev. Someone's opinion differs from mine, call the cops.

Panthera

01-05-2009, 12:05 PM

It failed. Most/all my friends who were stoked for WAR are already back playing WoW.

Your friends don't like it, therefore it failed? Seems like it's doing just fine to me.

PS - "Real" PVP would be shooters or strategy games - where player skill is much more important than class mechanics.

Player skill and organization is much more important than in World of Warcraft. Unless, of course, you somehow don't believe tactics and decision-making to be a skill. Honestly, this whole post makes me scratch my head. Do you think there's no player skill involved in RPG games as a whole?

Vanthar

01-05-2009, 12:26 PM

Player skill and organization is much more important than in World of Warcraft. Unless, of course, you somehow don't believe tactics and decision-making to be a skill. Honestly, this whole post makes me scratch my head. Do you think there's no player skill involved in RPG games as a whole?

I think it's questionable to say that WAR requires better tactics and decision-making in its PVP encounters. I don't see a whole lotta people facerolling WoW Arena's or Wintergrasp.

AversionFX

01-05-2009, 12:45 PM

Your friends don't like it, therefore it failed? Seems like it's doing just fine to me.

Player skill and organization is much more important than in World of Warcraft. Unless, of course, you somehow don't believe tactics and decision-making to be a skill. Honestly, this whole post makes me scratch my head. Do you think there's no player skill involved in RPG games as a whole?

Uhm, no. The PVP in just about every MMO I can think of is Rock/Paper/Scissor. The game is designed in such a way, that every class has its anti-class or anti-mechanic. You killed a Warlock as a Rogue? Congratulations, you filled your class' primary pvp role!

WAR is absolutely no different. Just because you can get a couple people on vent to coordinate it doesn't mean the game is "more skill oriented." I've played the game, and it's the same derivative shit. Click target, use stuns/slows, kite, circle strafe, all the while mashing buttons, and hope your healer is better than his and you win. That's not skill.

Random Number Generator, and being able to basically lock onto your target and spam attacks = no skill. So don't even try.

Suicidal ShiZuru

01-05-2009, 12:45 PM

I would love to know how you possibly get "real" pvp from random number generators. WAR was just another title trying to take a crack at WoW's throne. It failed. Most/all my friends who were stoked for WAR are already back playing WoW.

PS - "Real" PVP would be shooters or strategy games - where player skill is much more important than class mechanics.

Are you high?

You keep talking about WAR as if its subpar to WoW. Yes theyre very similar there is no way to deny that since MMOs have been going downhill for some time and all hold your hand. Yet you and your friends are obviously WoW whores, so you stick to it. Grats have fun.

About "real pvp", read the earlier posts mentioning Darkfall.

Panthera

01-05-2009, 12:47 PM

You know, I'm starting to remember why I mostly stopped posting here.

Now, if only there was another website, much like this one, except with less of an asshole problem...

Suicidal ShiZuru

01-05-2009, 12:49 PM

You know, I'm starting to remember why I mostly stopped posting here.

Now, if only there was another website, much like this one, except with less of an asshole problem...

Go to happy unicorn land, no one will care. :)

Panthera

01-05-2009, 12:53 PM

Happy unicorn land? That sounds even better! :D

Suicidal ShiZuru

01-05-2009, 12:53 PM

Happy unicorn land? That sounds even better! :D

I know you know what I know we know we mean.

Caerim

01-05-2009, 12:57 PM

Eh, the comparisons are all unfair.

WAR is focused on PvP from the get go with relatively poor PvE content. I played till rank 28 and there simply wasn't enough PvP to keep me going. It also felt like the grind that people complain about. Taking honour grinds and changing into reknown grind isn't exactly revolutionary. The main problem I had with WAR was that you needed to have an opponent. The massive server expansion at the get-go stopped people from being able to play against someone.

WoW is PvE with some PvP. Wintergrasp is fun but it's very much just another PvP zone (a more fun one but nonetheless). Lich King is generally a very polished expansion. Lots of content, good story and there's always something to do as their PvE content is well established.

I think WAR's biggest failing is their lack of PvE content. With all the focus being on PvP, it's like they don't realize that PvE is what keeps people around. PvPers get bored quickly imo. They sing the praises of the current game they're playing and "hate" the game that they used to play.

Suicidal ShiZuru

01-05-2009, 01:01 PM

The main problem is everyone compares any MMO to WoW as if it invented the genre... If anything it got it suck in a loop of unoriginality.

Panthera

01-05-2009, 01:05 PM

Less facetiously, am I the only one bothered by the kind of attitude in this thread? People seem deeply convinced that this game is bad and that anybody who does like it must be delusional or paid by EA. It doesn't even have real PvP! The game is shitty and people are all coming back to WoW, and that's the whole story!

Meh, I'm just ranting. I know nobody cares.

Caerim, I'm not really sure how you can say that WAR lacks in PvE content. It's not centered around PvE, and the PvE content isn't exactly amazing, but one of the common complaints is that there's too much content, so the people are too spread out amongst it. That was somewhat fixed by making the Public Quests easy, medium and hard, so that smaller groups could still have PQs to complete. Unless you just mean endgame PvE content, in which case... ah... yeah. There are much better games for it. The RvR content is good enough to keep the game going, in my opinion - Dark Age of Camelot is still chugging along, and there are other examples out there.

AversionFX

01-05-2009, 01:05 PM

Are you high?

You keep talking about WAR as if its subpar to WoW. Yes theyre very similar there is no way to deny that since MMOs have been going downhill for some time and all hold your hand. Yet you and your friends are obviously WoW whores, so you stick to it. Grats have fun.

About "real pvp", read the earlier posts mentioning Darkfall.

Actually, I keep talking about WAR as if it's more or less the same damn thing as WoW, so if you are doing guess-work as to my opinion on either game, you're wrong. Notice I said, "Most/all my friends who were stoked for WAR are already back playing WoW."

Reading comprehension: epic fail!

Thanks for mentioning Darkfall, a game that isn't even out, and can't yet be validated for its emphasis on skill. Fail.

I love how because I say one game is bad, it inherently means I like the other game. So much fail it saddens me.

You know, I'm starting to remember why I mostly stopped posting here.

Now, if only there was another website, much like this one, except with less of an asshole problem...

Whenever someone has a different opinion than you, just call them an asshole, and publicly wonder why you post. Oh, the frustrations! Why can't they all just think like me?! :rolleyes:

Grow up.

Kweli

01-05-2009, 01:15 PM

Im just happy I dont play any 15 dollar a month games anymore (read: MMO)

The whole "My MMO is better then your MMO" is as fun as the console wars

Panthera

01-05-2009, 01:20 PM

Whenever someone has a different opinion than you, just call them an asshole, and publicly wonder why you post. Oh, the frustrations! Why can't they all just think like me?! :rolleyes:

Grow up.

Yep, that's clearly my frustration. That you have a different opinion. That's all.

What's that about reading comprehension?

Illuminus

01-05-2009, 03:48 PM

Here is the thing... just like AoC right now, you HAVE to play on a well populated server.. otherwise your game experience will not be good. I am currently playing order on the Dark Crag server (most populated one since the "merges") and having a blast. It is so easy to start a fortress raid... just go pew pew at the door and eventually other people will join in. And ever since the last patch performance for large scale ORvR have been awesome.

And yes, i am glad that content was cut. Currently there are still to many PvP areas to participate in.

Caerim

01-05-2009, 09:11 PM

Caerim, I'm not really sure how you can say that WAR lacks in PvE content. It's not centered around PvE, and the PvE content isn't exactly amazing, but one of the common complaints is that there's too much content, so the people are too spread out amongst it. That was somewhat fixed by making the Public Quests easy, medium and hard, so that smaller groups could still have PQs to complete. Unless you just mean endgame PvE content, in which case... ah... yeah. There are much better games for it. The RvR content is good enough to keep the game going, in my opinion - Dark Age of Camelot is still chugging along, and there are other examples out there.

Yeah, that's the real crux of the 'problem' that WAR seems to have. I think it's a fairly well designed PvP game but it seems to me that PvE content is what will keep a player around.

I truly hope the RvR is compelling enough to keep people playing. I think the game deserves that much. Much like Eve, there are many niches for MMOs to fill and WAR certainly should be able to survive.

Chaos Machine

01-07-2009, 09:31 PM

i think one of the underlying problems was poor networking technology that limited the number of people that could play concurrently on a server, as stated before most of the servers feel like ghost towns because everyone is so spread out, they also made travel more difficult than it should have been.

Herald42

01-08-2009, 07:14 AM

I think it's a fairly well designed PvP game but it seems to me that PvE content is what will keep a player around.

I truly hope the RvR is compelling enough to keep people playing. I think the game deserves that much. Much like Eve, there are many niches for MMOs to fill and WAR certainly should be able to survive.

The end-game RvR will be well worth it once the major guilds on a server stop grinding influence/renown and just FIGHT. Focusing on taking areas and cap cities is where it's at, and guilds are just starting to stop swapping keeps with no resistance.

In the meantime, I still have Bastion Stair, Lost Vale, Warpblade Tunnels, Sigmar's Crypt, and Skaven Tunnels (all final-tier instances) to do.