Warren Spector coming to Steam

[Varsity]

Holy shit.

We are currently working with Valve on a new game using the Source Engine to be delivered via Steam, and are looking for top talent from within the industry to help us out.
No word on the game itself, but Junction Point's (http://www.junctionpoint.com/) (Spector's development studio) mission statement is:

[To] focus on player-driven, improvisational gameplay in the context of strong, traditional narratives. The company's goal is to tell stories with players, not to them, allowing them to craft their own, unique experiences through in-game choices.
So expect something special if you weren't already (and you really should have been).

Source (http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=96419)

I repeat: Holy shit.

[Nameback]

Wow, looks like steams really getting some power behind it.

[PIPBoy3000]

Personally this excites me greatly. In general, I like the Source engine. The Steam distribution model, while having issues that need not be repeated, is probably the best chance that developers have for breaking free of traditional publishers. True, Valve becomes another publisher of sorts, but I suspect the licensing agreements are far more generous than current models.

[The Iron Weasel]

Oh, dear, lord.....the master has returned!

[Nerv]

Holy shit, I was drinking a pint of water when I read this, and very nearly sprayed water all over my keyboard when I realised what it meant.
This is possibly the most awesomest thing ever.

[Captain Awesome]

Valve has created a good technology here. And they deserve every bit of attention. I am glad people are looking to this as a new avenue to create game content and not worrying about obnoxious publishing houses and their beauracricies.

[Deadend]

Wow, Steam is hot, and there is also the Xbox Live Arcade. This could be the begining of the future, at least until the assets for games become so massive that bandwidth cannot keep up (say, 10+ GB per game).

[Morrolan]

I'm no fan of steam, but I am sure as shit glad that Warren is making a new game, and I like the fact that the Steam distribution has (I assume?) freed him from the clutches of overbearing publishers. Unless Valve is going to start pushing for releases, which I just don't see happening.

All in all, fantastic news, despite my reservations about Steam itself.

[OUX]

This is alittle of topic but i know some guys at my college that are trying to get into the game industry and was contracted by the language dept. to (this has a point) make a action/adventure game that teaches German. The two of them wrote up a proposal and requested the Source Engine. Long story short they found out it was being paid for by private investors and now have a copy of Source with no idea how to program it (actually anything one is a self styled designer and the other is an audio guy) and they are expected to have a product in 6 months or so.
lol it makes me laugh.

[Worldcrafter]

This could be the begining of the future, at least until the assets for games become so massive that bandwidth cannot keep up (say, 10+ GB per game).

That's probably why Steam offers preloads for their games.

I'm glad Warren Spector is making another game, and this time it looks like it's specifically for the PC, so hopefully we won't end up with a half-assed effort like Deus Ex:Invisible War.

[Borys]

HOLY F-N SHIT




[PC gamer who lost his faith]

Now hear me, PC gamers, this might be your last chance. Buy this f-n game. Vote with your wallet, show that you care. I can't stress enough how much PC gaming future depends on us, PC gamers. It saddens me that so many great games (SWAT 4 for example) bomb just because nobody bought them. This is your chance, stop being mindless sheep buying only the biggest PC titles like HL2 and WoW. Support this idea! If this takes off there could be great things in the future and not only 360 ports!

[/PC gamer who lost his faith]


[cynical fucker]

Deus Ex: IW Part Deux anyone?

[/cynical fucker]

[kathode]

Junction Point Studios is looking for artists to help develop characters and locations for a cartoon-style game.

I guess we'll see what the heck that means.

[insidious]

Awesome.

Go Valve / Specter.

[51|RandoM]

I guess we'll see what the heck that means.

cel-shaded would be my first guess.

[StoneGut]

YAY!

Great news for everyone!

[thecrazyd]

HOLY F-N SHIT




[PC gamer who lost his faith]

Now hear me, PC gamers, this might be your last chance. Buy this f-n game. Vote with your wallet, show that you care. I can't stress enough how much PC gaming future depends on us, PC gamers. It saddens me that so many great games (SWAT 4 for example) bomb just because nobody bought them. This is your chance, stop being mindless sheep buying only the biggest PC titles like HL2 and WoW. Support this idea! If this takes off there could be great things in the future and not only 360 ports!

[/PC gamer who lost his faith]


[cynical fucker]

Deus Ex: IW Part Deux anyone?

[/cynical fucker]
SWAT 4 is your best example? That was a puddle of mediocrity. Also, Warren Spector did not make Deus Ex: IW.

[The Iron Weasel]

SWAT 4 is your best example? That was a puddle of mediocrity. Also, Warren Spector did not make Deus Ex: IW.

SWAT 4 was AWESOME! YOU BASTARD! :)

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

SWAT 4 is your best example? That was a puddle of mediocrity. Also, Warren Spector did not make Deus Ex: IW.

SWAT 4 is great. Please give us examples of any better FPS that dont involve WWII or dark rooms.

[sTubbs]

That's probably why Steam offers preloads for their games.

I'm glad Warren Spector is making another game, and this time it looks like it's specifically for the PC, so hopefully we won't end up with a half-assed effort like Deus Ex:Invisible War.

It has been said so many times before, but here goes again...

Warren Spector had very little to do with Invisible War. The notoriously negative aspects of that game (unviersal ammo for example) were the doing of Harvey Smith. There are several interviews floating around the internets where Warren is quite obviously holding back his true disappointment for these decisions. At the time that Invisible War was being developed under Harvey Smith, Spector was leading the Thief III team, which was actually a very good game that was true to the Thief franchise, regardless of platform.


With that out of the way, I am absolutely blown away by this news. I can not wait to see what Spector is able to do with Source. In my opinion it is still easily the best engine out there - not even the stuff I have seen in UE3 has impressed me as much physics wise. I hope that it is in the same vein as the original Deus Ex, perhaps even a spiritual successor of sorts.

Edit: I just read the company page and the game concept eliminates all hope of Deus Ex type game. Unless it is just lies, the idea of a cartoon world could kick ass. Imagine playing a Road Runner vs Wile E Coyote type game with the Source engine's physics!

[The Iron Weasel]

SWAT 4 is great. Please give us examples of any better FPS that dont involve WWII or dark rooms.

Psst....SWAT 4 had dark rooms.....

[XxSATANxX]

Okay, just for laughs and because it's a long weekend I'm going to reload HL2 and STEAM. I found it troublesome DRM that punished me for buying the game. Maybe it's changed?

[Liquidize105]

DXIW should've been on Source to begin with. Their modified UE2 engine is a HUGE factor why ISA isn't around anymore. Pity.

HL2 isn't a freeroaming open world game like Deus Ex, but the illusion is there.

This is great news.

[Deadend]

SWAT 4 was the scariest game I played. Well, until I try Condemned. Not even FEAR was as scary. Ghosts do not scare me so much as crazy people armed with automatic weapons holding hostages.

[Nerv]

I love DX:IW, while it certainly wasn't another Deus Ex, it was a fucking great game.

And Swat 4 is excellent, the sheer effort put into the level design alone is mighty impressive, but the rest of the game works so well too.

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

I wouldnt say SWAT is scary... that one mission was freaky but not scary. Just tense. And by dark rooms I meant FEAR or Quake4... SWAT4 is the best tactical shooter out.

~Condemned looks like it would get repetitive quickly. Kill thing... run... kill thing... cutscene... kill thing... run... No doubt it will be scary as hell though.

[The Iron Weasel]

I'm partial to Rainbow Six myself....not lockdown though....Please don't make me think about lockdown for too long...

(I liked lockdown for what it was, but when compared to the old rainbow six games....not even close)

[Borys]

Yeah, sTubbs is actually right this time, Thief III was good. I missed some abilities and features (rope arrows! WATER!) but it was a true Thief franchise game.

SWAT 4 is great and underrated I don't understand the haters.

DX:IW is something to be best forgotten no matter who actually made it.

[Varsity]

I tried the demo of Swat 4 and couldn't find a nice thing to say about it. I was playing the same game as you lot, right?

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

I dont know what the demo is of exactly so I cant comment. I sort of liked the last the Thief when I played it but it got boring fast. And it was too easy. Grab the glowy things!!!!@!$

[Unzerpum]

Has anybody considered the possibility that Warren might be working on a computer game version of this (http://www.sjgames.com/toon/)?

Just a thought. :D

[Evil_SPanKY]

LOL, SWAT 4 was utter crap...

[Nerv]

Apparently not.
What mission was it? Was it the chinese resteraunt?
Find a friend who owns this game, get them to show you the serial killer, or cultist missions, then come back to us.

Swat 4 is one of those games that actually made me genuinly upset and angry, not over a bug, or bad design, but upset and angry at characters in the game soley based on what the game showed them as doing, and it's this kind of engagement that seperates a good game from a fantastic one. (HL2 is another, as is Planescape: Torment)

[earthworm48]

We’re looking for artists who can conceive, sketch (and maybe even model and animate) cartoon mice, cats and wabbits. We need help creating and fleshing out surreal Wagnerian opera sets and places like Balloonyland or Wackyland. (If you have to ask about Balloonyland and Wackyland you might not be right for this job…)

*Is really unsure*

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

My guess is those who dont like SWAT 4 just hate anything involving tactics. There is not a single reason to dislike the game other than that.


Has anybody considered the possibility that Warren might be working on a computer game version of this (http://www.sjgames.com/toon/)?

Just a thought. :D

Wow I almost threw up... would be like another Toontown Online crapfest...

[Evil Avatar]

Can I get a "WhoHoo!" :)

[fushi]

HOLY F-N SHIT




[PC gamer who lost his faith]

Now hear me, PC gamers, this might be your last chance. Buy this f-n game. Vote with your wallet, show that you care. I can't stress enough how much PC gaming future depends on us, PC gamers. It saddens me that so many great games (SWAT 4 for example) bomb just because nobody bought them. This is your chance, stop being mindless sheep buying only the biggest PC titles like HL2 and WoW. Support this idea! If this takes off there could be great things in the future and not only 360 ports!

[/PC gamer who lost his faith]


[cynical fucker]

Deus Ex: IW Part Deux anyone?

[/cynical fucker]
GAF has had a really bad effect on you, my friend.

The idea itself has me intrigued, though.

[Borys]

This cartoon-stuff has really made me a little bit nervous.

This:

[To] focus on player-driven, improvisational gameplay in the context of strong, traditional narratives. The company's goal is to tell stories with players, not to them, allowing them to craft their own, unique experiences through in-game choices.

sounds exactly like Deus Ex 1.

I hope it stays that way.

[XxSATANxX]

Swat 4: I played the hell out of SWAT 3. Years later I get some better eye candy but the unhooked missions were kinda dull. The evaluation post mission is still borked. Guy with a gun turns toward me refuses to comply. I'm from Chicago so you when that happens you empty the clip, after that ya have a beer. In SWAT 4 you get dinked for excessive force. I was also hoping for some actual physics for the bullets and objects etc. The AI was iffy in a few spots. Your team members seem to enjoy the downtime associated with being shot. Online this thing is a mess unless it's folks you know. Why do the police shoot the wrong guy so often? Play SWAT 4 online and you'll soon find out why. In fairness the developers can't help were all stupid. I hope the add-on proves to be a winner. For the moment I'm getting my law enforcement fix out running the cops in NFSMW!

[Unzerpum]

Junction Point is probably working on more than one game. All they want for the toon game is a concept artist, which means it isn't even in preproduction yet. In the meantime, they've got a complete team (artists, programmers, designers) working on something else...

[F3nyx]

My initial reaction was that DX: IW has no place in this discussion -- most of that game's flaws have nothing to do with Spector -- but since Spector's ideas on emergent gameplay were perhaps his most substantial contributions to IW (not necessarily good ones, either), and since this release centers on emergent narrative, there are some valid parallels.

A new breed of massively multiplayer game would seem to be the logical conclusion of his ideas on emergence -- I can imagine him attempting to build some sort of flexible framework for stories that would be fleshed out by a large community.

It's an awfully ambitious goal, and I honestly don't think everyone wants to create their own story. It's fun to be told a story -- Half-life 1 and 2, for example, not only tell you a story, but emphasize that you're a pawn of higher powers (the narrators, in a sense, as well as the G-man).

Does anyone have any links to interviews with Spector on the topic of emergence?

edit: Okay, I just reread the bit about "strong, traditional narratives", which seems to be the very definition of telling stories to players rather than with them. What gives?

[thecrazyd]

My guess is those who dont like SWAT 4 just hate anything involving tactics. There is not a single reason to dislike the game other than that.
I do not dislike it, it is just very mediocre. The whole game feels very vanilla, and I did not feel compelled to finish it. I am sure the lack of a cohesive story at least had something to do with that.

[Citizen Philip]

I have not interest in SWAT.

Invisible War: Bad. Thief 3: Good.

Steam: I like.

What Spector doing? Whatever, will see.

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

How can you add a story properly to a squad based tactical shooter? Youre SWAT, not STARS or some shit. Why do you even need a story other than "bad guys doing this at this location". the rest is on the player...

[thecrazyd]

Because without a story, I was not at all compelled to continue playing. They could have some overarching storyline about a group of related terrorist attacks or something. Doesn't need to be in depth, but something more then "Here are some missions."

[FunkyPoopMonkey]

Who is this guy? What's the big deal?

[DigitalFirefly]

who?????????

[Loganrapp]

Who is this guy? What's the big deal?

who?????????

Very, very sad.

[Royal Fool]

I think I remember Spector saying during an interview with IGN at E3 that he was doing a game "on a giant scale"... whatever that means. Also, don't quote me on that.

[gojira]

I think I remember Spector saying during an interview with IGN at E3 that he was doing a game "on a giant scale"... whatever that means. Also, don't quote me on that.

Oh yeah? And how are ya' gonna stop me?

[FunkyPoopMonkey]

Very, very sad.
Ok fine I looked him up:
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,127/

And it's no surprise I haven't heard of him. He makes shitty over-rated games. Even Deus Ex is garbage.

[Cubfan]

I stand by my opinion that the original Deus Ex was highly overrated. Not saying I didn't enjoy it, just not as much as most other people apparently.

Off topic: It looks like Perfect Dark Zero is pretty damn good too
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/perfectdarkzero/review.html?sid=6140242

[thecrazyd]

Ok fine I looked him up:
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,127/

And it's no surprise I haven't heard of him. He makes shitty over-rated games. Even Deus Ex is garbage.
You go right back to fucking hell with that fucking bullshit. Deus Ex is probably the best FPS ever made.

[sTubbs]

You go right back to fucking hell with that fucking bullshit. Deus Ex is probably the best FPS ever made.

I agree in every way, except for one nit-picky thing...I hate it when Deus Ex is described as an FPS. Sure, it can be played in such a fashion, but labelling it as such shortcomes the true depth of the game and also gives people who have not played it the wrong expectations. Quite simply it is an RPG. That being said it is my favourite game of all time. I always ALWAYS have a game going - in fact I just got to Hong Kong last night.

Oh, and the people who do not know who Warren Spector is should be banned from gaming forever. The guy is a fucking legend easily on par with ANYONE else in the gaming world.

[FunkyPoopMonkey]

You go right back to fucking hell with that fucking bullshit. Deus Ex is probably the best FPS ever made.
I've given it about 5 solid chances ever since it launched. It's garbage through and through. It's an FPS for children who can't handle the concept of aiming, which other FPS's use.

[Fuzzy]

Ok fine I looked him up:
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,127/

And it's no surprise I haven't heard of him. He makes shitty over-rated games. Even Deus Ex is garbage.

I don't think there's much hope for you, if you read down the list of titles he's worked on and not respect him you obviously missed out on playing some of the best "classic" PC games ever:

Wing Commander
Ultima Underworld
System Shock
Crusader: No Remorse
Thief
Deus Ex

I pitty you....

[Draft]

HOLY FUCKING DOLLOPS OF DONKEY SHIT A GAME DEVELOPER IS MAKING A GAME

i repeat

HOLY FUCKING DOLLOPS OF DONKEY SHIT A GAME DEVELOPER IS MAKING A GAME

[Mason]

HOLY FUCKING DOLLOPS OF DONKEY SHIT A GAME DEVELOPER IS MAKING A GAME

i repeat

HOLY FUCKING DOLLOPS OF DONKEY SHIT A GAME DEVELOPER IS MAKING A GAME

Put that comment into about 9/10ths of the news around here? Or are you being stupid for specific reasons?

That said, DX:IW brought Spector down to neutral status. It wasn't a horrible game, but the things that it did get wrong were things that no smart designer should be getting wrong. You can respect guys like Troika for making ambitious messes, but you can't respect the philosophies behind DX:IW.

Anything that validates the potential of Steam and Source is news though, and you're pretty retarded if you can't see why.

[Draft]

Mason you're such a mean guy.

btw I wasn't aware that 9/10s of gaming news was, "an individual noted for developing games is in fact at this very moment developing a game no fooling." Further more I was not aware that Source the game engine needed validation, seeing as there are in fact genuine bonafide games in existence built with it.

though I guess it is kind of cool that Spector is making a new game that features wascally wabbits (http://www.junctionpoint.com/jobs.htm), of which I am a long time fan.

[thecrazyd]

I've given it about 5 solid chances ever since it launched. It's garbage through and through. It's an FPS for children who can't handle the concept of aiming, which other FPS's use.
You are the stupidist person to ever exist. Deus Ex does not involve aiming? What the hell?

[Mason]

Mason you're such a mean guy.

btw I wasn't aware that 9/10s of gaming news was, "an individual noted for developing games is in fact at this very moment developing a game no fooling." Further more I was not aware that Source the game engine needed validation, seeing as there are in fact genuine bonafide games in existence built with it.

though I guess it is kind of cool that Spector is making a new game that features wascally wabbits (http://www.junctionpoint.com/jobs.htm), of which I am a long time fan.

I am mean. A team of shrinks is working on it around the clock, with limited success.

But yeah, if you're mocking the concept of communicating to people that an industry great is working on a new title for an untraditional distribution mechanism, then there's really nothing on the site that isn't equally worthy of mockery. Which by all means, have at it, but you've got to be evenhanded in your making fun of shit. "SONY FUCKS SOMETHING UP" and "360 LAUNCH WASN'T THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS" are a good place to start.

I echo your amusement at the possible cartoonish nature of the game, though. It's kind of the Romero cycle: become an industry visionary, mess up some anticipated projects, give your previous fans the finger and go work on games for another demographic.

[Redline]

HOLY F-N SHIT




[PC gamer who lost his faith]

Now hear me, PC gamers, this might be your last chance. Buy this f-n game. Vote with your wallet, show that you care. I can't stress enough how much PC gaming future depends on us, PC gamers. It saddens me that so many great games (SWAT 4 for example) bomb just because nobody bought them. This is your chance, stop being mindless sheep buying only the biggest PC titles like HL2 and WoW. Support this idea! If this takes off there could be great things in the future and not only 360 ports!

[/PC gamer who lost his faith]


[cynical fucker]

Deus Ex: IW Part Deux anyone?

[/cynical fucker]


That makes you think that people are not already voting with their wallets? Just because people do not buy the games you are buying, just because they like something that you do not, and just because you have convinced yourself that everyone else is a 'mindless sheep' does not mean that your likes are somehow superior.

Jeez, get over yourself. You know, sometimes people like different things to you, comprehend?

PC gaming is still evolving. When the mechanisms and talent is there to create new experiences, they will come. Until then, chill out and don't take it so seriously.

[The Iron Weasel]

I do not dislike it, it is just very mediocre. The whole game feels very vanilla, and I did not feel compelled to finish it. I am sure the lack of a cohesive story at least had something to do with that.

I thought it was the most indepth tactical game I've ever played...not vanilla if you ask me...but thats only if you ask me...which you didn't....I'll shut up.

[F3nyx]

That makes you think that people are not already voting with their wallets? Just because people do not buy the games you are buying, just because they like something that you do not, and just because you have convinced yourself that everyone else is a 'mindless sheep' does not mean that your likes are somehow superior.

Jeez, get over yourself. You know, sometimes people like different things to you, comprehend?

PC gaming is still evolving. When the mechanisms and talent is there to create new experiences, they will come. Until then, chill out and don't take it so seriously.I don't mean to be elitist, and the idea of voting with one's wallet is a good one, but in practice, people usually vote more for the volume of advertising than the quality of the product.

[H.Bogard]

SWAT 4 is great. Please give us examples of any better FPS that dont involve WWII or dark rooms.


No one lives forever

[The Iron Weasel]

No one lives forever

God I love that game!

[Shifteh]

So, SiN I take it.

[The Iron Weasel]

SiN was well done aswell.

[megaman]

I've given it about 5 solid chances ever since it launched. It's garbage through and through. It's an FPS for children who can't handle the concept of aiming, which other FPS's use.

What people really do not understand is that with age your tastes change...different age groups like different games...Deux ex is meant for a more mature audience....I bet this guy is a CS player...

[Borys]

Hong Kong area is one of the best maps in the entire game. The music and the setting are simply awesome.

Other notable areas: VersaLife Building, MJ12 Secret Laboratories (BEST music track in the entire game), Area 51.

Worst map is easily Paris and that Chateau. I loathed that level.

[H.Bogard]

I hated that snowy area level in DXIW so much i quit the game and un-installed it.
Also....i dont know if anyone's noticed it but NONE of the characters emote in this game....especially the player himself/herself. I bet the characters in Scrapland (who are robots ,mind you. ) were more emotional than this.
The inventory system sucks
Universal ammo sucks
Biomods was a bad idea, not very encouraging-to-experiment design.
did i mention the controls were so .....i dunno........xbox like?

[megaman]

the story and the map sizes are what mainly made dx iw a much worse game..(and also the lack of any background score like in deus ex..some of which i listen to this very day)

[Frogleg Special]

PC game only -> They could make the opposite of DX:IW and make a real joke of that abomination.

[Varsity]

No one lives forever
Heh, do you mean the game or the fact that you'd die before you finished the list? :p

[Kyle Jones]

*uncontrolably screams for joy*

YAAAAY!

[Draft]

Hong Kong area is one of the best maps in the entire game. The music and the setting are simply awesome.

Other notable areas: VersaLife Building, MJ12 Secret Laboratories (BEST music track in the entire game), Area 51.

Worst map is easily Paris and that Chateau. I loathed that level.The Synapse (Hong Kong Streets) is the best track in the game. DuClaire Chateau is the second best. Paris action is kind of kicking, and Versalife is good too.

I got the soundtrack with my GOTY edition :)

[Shifteh]

I've given it about 5 solid chances ever since it launched. It's garbage through and through. It's an FPS for children who can't handle the concept of aiming, which other FPS's use.

He'd better be talking about Invisible War.